Turk Schonert

[Nighthawk]

Could it be that mediocrity will continue to reign at One Bills Drive? Well, according to a segment in this article...YES. It states that league sources (who knows whether to believe them!) has stated that Turk Schonert is going to be the next OC of the Bills. Big changes...just like Dickey said! [sarcasm]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/rams/story/4B5E3E236370C35C862573CA00161B83?OpenDocument

[Romes]

which article?

[Jan Reimers]

Let's never promote a loyal guy from within when you can get a has-been like Mike Martz or Cam Cameron.

I don't know how one can assume that Turk Schonert will be a mediocre OC, when he's never been given the chance to prove himself.

[Nighthawk]

Could it be that mediocrity will continue to reign at One Bills Drive? Well, according to a segment in this article...YES. It states that league sources (who knows whether to believe them!) has stated that Turk Schonert is going to be the next OC of the Bills. Big changes...just like Dickey said! [sarcasm]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/rams/story/4B5E3E236370C35C862573CA00161B83?OpenDocument

Sorry about that...forgot to include link to St. Louis paper. Oops...

[don137]

There is a bit of the unknown with Schonert since he has never been a OC. He has a history as a drifter as far a being a QB coach. He has been with multiple teams the last 7-8 years (Bills twice, Giants, Saints, Panthers, etc.). He has done nothing but a QB coach. I wish he did more than just run the quarterbacks before he gets promoted to OC though.

On a side note he lived in my development a couple of streets away from mine a couple years ago here in Charlotte.

[Nighthawk]

Let's never promote a loyal guy from within when you can get a has-been like Mike Martz or Cam Cameron.

I don't know how one can assume that Turk Schonert will be a mediocre OC, when he's never been given the chance to prove himself.

Hey, let's promote from an organization that has been a loser for 10 years. Makes sense. Also, why would you promote any part of an offensive staff that just led the team to one of it's worst seasons in franchise history???? You need a fresh face in that position with different ideas...not somebody who is a "yes" man to Dickey. That's the worst thing that can happen to this team.

[Nighthawk]

There is a bit of the unknown with Schonert since he has never been a OC. He has a history as a drifter as far a being a QB coach. He has been with multiple teams the last 7-8 years (Bills twice, Giants, Saints, Panthers, etc.). He has done nothing but a QB coach. I wish he did more than just run the quarterbacks before he gets promoted to OC though.

On a side note he lived in my development a couple of streets away from mine a couple years ago here in Charlotte.

Exactly, let's not forget he was basically run out of town the first time in Buffalo.

[Jeff1220]

In Turk's defense, just because Jauron/Fairchild put him on the staff doesn't mean he has the same play calling philosophy or insufficiencies of SF. He has worked with more OCs and HCs than just Fairchild and Jauron and might just surprise.
That said, I'd like to see them hire someone from an offense that has actually gotten the job done.

[Jan Reimers]

Hey, let's promote from an organization that has been a loser for 10 years. Makes sense. Also, why would you promote any part of an offensive staff that just led the team to one of it's worst seasons in franchise history???? You need a fresh face in that position with different ideas...not somebody who is a "yes" man to Dickey. That's the worst thing that can happen to this team.
Yeah, that damn Schonert has been the ruination of this franchise for ten years.

Actually, when you make personnel decisions, you need to evaluate each and every person on his merits. When you paint with the broad brush of "anybody associated with this team is a loser and a failure and unworthy of promotion," you do a great disservice to everyone.

I would despise working for any entity that overlooked my strengths and lumped me in with the failures of the organization, automatically disqualifying me from advancement.

[HHURRICANE]

Hey, let's promote from an organization that has been a loser for 10 years. Makes sense.

Game, set, match!!!

This is a point that no one on this board can argue.

[Dr. Lecter]

Game, set, match!!!

This is a point that no one on this board can argue.

Again, I will cite the example of Bill Polian being promoted from a long time "loser organization."

[HHURRICANE]

Sorry, but people already have their homer glasses on. We finished 7-9 if you forgot already.

Our offense was one of the worst in the league.

Do you really think that Schonert or Olsen are going to make "significant" improvements??

[HHURRICANE]

Again, I will cite the example of Bill Polian being promoted from a long time "loser organization."

Please explain?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Sorry, but people already have their homer glasses on. We finished 7-9 if you forgot already.

Our offense was one of the worst in the league.

Do you really think that Schonert or Olsen are going to make "significant" improvements??
I merged the threads. It's the same crap said in a 100 different ways.

[Dr. Lecter]

Please explain?

When Polian was hired (promoted) the Bills wer coming off back to back 2-14 seasons. He was a relatively unknown scout. Ralph did not listen to the fans and go and hire some big name to fill the role and promoted from within.


Had the Intraweb existed at that time he would have raked over the coals.

Finding a good big name to fill a role on a football time is not always successful. Tom Donahoe, Kevin Gilbride, Drew Bledsoe, etc shoudl have proven that to Bills fans already.

[HHURRICANE]

When Polian was hired (promoted) the Bills wer coming off back to back 2-14 seasons. He was a relatively unknown scout. Ralph did not listen to the fans and go and hire some big name to fill the role and promoted from within.


Had the Intraweb existed at that time he would have raked over the coals.

Finding a good big name to fill a role on a football time is not always successful. Tom Donahoe, Kevin Gilbride, Drew Bledsoe, etc shoudl have proven that to Bills fans already.

In fairness, Polian had the job temporarily before they promoted him. In addition, he was the main reason that we got Bruce Smith. In addition, he had absolutely nothing to do with the team going 2-14 considering they didn't hire him until late in '84.

Give me a resume that compares to young Bill's on this current team.

[SquishDaFish]

AMEN Lecter

[Mahdi]

In fairness, Polian had the job temporarily before they promoted him. In addition, he was the main reason that we got Bruce Smith. In addition, he had absolutely nothing to do with the team going 2-14 considering they didn't hire him until late in '84.

Give me a resume that compares to young Bill's on this current team.
So what did Schonert have to do with the Bills going 7-9?... Edwards played as well for a rookie and kept us in playoff contention into december.... Schonert must have had something to do with that....

I say give the guy a shot.... but a real shot... which means if they build a good offense this offseason then Schonert has a good chance to succeed.

[Night Train]

Again, I will cite the example of Bill Polian being promoted from a long time "loser organization."

Yup. He and Marv were in Montreal, for crying out loud.

Turk played behind Boomer in Cinci and under Sam Wyche. AVP played behind Kelly and under Marchibroda. Both were 2 of the best Offenses I ever saw. If either guy blows the dust off their old playbook, I'm all for it over losers like Olsen ,Cameron, Martz and whatever other shiny toy is being diplayed in print.

[patmoran2006]

Minor Leagues this team.

[bigbub2352]

This is a money move just like all the rest of our FO hiring, but this one makes some sense, u dont want to stump the growth of TE, and he has continuity and trust with the young QB, this move is not a bad one, just not the popular one, the real question is can Turk put together an offense, if this happens i would assume that AVP will get promoted to QB coach, and he is intelligent and will help the development of TE and also be ablt to help Turk on his duties as well

all and all it would be a typical Bills move

[Philagape]

Instead of debating the approaches of hiring from within vs. going outside, seems to me the obvious question is, what has Schonert done to earn a promotion?
I went through his history, and he had a remarkable trend before he came to the Bills: He was QB coach for three different teams, and each time he was there for just one year, and the QBs he coached did so well that the teams found new QBs for the following year. Here are their years and the QBs he coached: 2005 (Saints, Aaron Brooks); 2003 (Giants, Kerry Collins); 2001 (Panthers, Chris Weinke). The last team to keep him for more than one year before the Bills was ...... the Bills. During the Rob Johnson years. He helped Johnson as much as he's helped JP.
How has this guy not been promoted sooner????? :crazy:

[HHURRICANE]

Instead of debating the approaches of hiring from within vs. going outside, seems to me the obvious question is, what has Schonert done to earn a promotion?
I went through his history, and he had a remarkable trend before he came to the Bills: He was QB coach for three different teams, and each time he was there for just one year, and the QBs he coached did so well that the teams found new QBs for the following year. Here are their years and the QBs he coached: 2005 (Saints, Aaron Brooks); 2003 (Giants, Kerry Collins); 2001 (Panthers, Chris Weinke). The last team to keep him for more than one year before the Bills was ...... the Bills. During the Rob Johnson years. He helped Johnson as much as he's helped JP.
How has this guy not been promoted sooner????? :crazy:

Ouch. I wouldn't have this guy walking my dog.

[Nighthawk]

Ouch. I wouldn't have this guy walking my dog.

Why? He is a logic choice to turn this offense around...at leat that is what some on this board seem to think.

[Nighthawk]

Instead of debating the approaches of hiring from within vs. going outside, seems to me the obvious question is, what has Schonert done to earn a promotion?
I went through his history, and he had a remarkable trend before he came to the Bills: He was QB coach for three different teams, and each time he was there for just one year, and the QBs he coached did so well that the teams found new QBs for the following year. Here are their years and the QBs he coached: 2005 (Saints, Aaron Brooks); 2003 (Giants, Kerry Collins); 2001 (Panthers, Chris Weinke). The last team to keep him for more than one year before the Bills was ...... the Bills. During the Rob Johnson years. He helped Johnson as much as he's helped JP.
How has this guy not been promoted sooner????? :crazy:

I'm sure there will be somebody on here who will spin the facts and tell us how everybody has to start somewhere. Well, that's fine, I just don't want him getting his chance in Buffalo. I'm done with average and I'd like somebody who actually deserves this position!

[Buffatexas]

I'm sure there will be somebody on here who will spin the facts and tell us how everybody has to start somewhere. Well, that's fine, I just don't want him getting his chance in Buffalo. I'm done with average and I'd like somebody who actually deserves this position!

ok..who in your mind deserves this position?

[BidsJr]

Instead of debating the approaches of hiring from within vs. going outside, seems to me the obvious question is, what has Schonert done to earn a promotion?
I went through his history, and he had a remarkable trend before he came to the Bills: He was QB coach for three different teams, and each time he was there for just one year, and the QBs he coached did so well that the teams found new QBs for the following year. Here are their years and the QBs he coached: 2005 (Saints, Aaron Brooks); 2003 (Giants, Kerry Collins); 2001 (Panthers, Chris Weinke). The last team to keep him for more than one year before the Bills was ...... the Bills. During the Rob Johnson years. He helped Johnson as much as he's helped JP.
How has this guy not been promoted sooner????? :crazy:

OK, so it looks like this guy couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken cht. Maybe he has a little more here to work with in Trent Edwards.

[Philagape]

OK, so it looks like this guy couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken cht. Maybe he has a little more here to work with in Trent Edwards.

As a QB coach. Edwards would be the first QB he's ever successfully groomed, if it turns out that way. But what record does he have to earn a promotion?

[don137]

Instead of debating the approaches of hiring from within vs. going outside, seems to me the obvious question is, what has Schonert done to earn a promotion?
I went through his history, and he had a remarkable trend before he came to the Bills: He was QB coach for three different teams, and each time he was there for just one year, and the QBs he coached did so well that the teams found new QBs for the following year. Here are their years and the QBs he coached: 2005 (Saints, Aaron Brooks); 2003 (Giants, Kerry Collins); 2001 (Panthers, Chris Weinke). The last team to keep him for more than one year before the Bills was ...... the Bills. During the Rob Johnson years. He helped Johnson as much as he's helped JP.
How has this guy not been promoted sooner????? :crazy:

In 2002, while out of the league, he coached his son's Pop Warner team (I'm not kidding either).

[Midwesternbillsfan]

I am not advocating Schonert for offensive coordinator. In fact, I don't want him to be. But this does not have to be history repeating itself, at least in the manifestation of Steve Fairchild. While nobody knows if Schonert would do any better calling the plays, but it very feasibly could have been a situation where the philosophy isn't flawed but the executor of that philosophy was. And it's also about gameday intuition; you can have the best playbook in the world but if you have no strong and smart intuitive sense that allows you to call the right particular play in any particular situation, it won't matter. And I'm not just talking about calling a play-action pass when the defense has been stifling the running game; I'm also talking about running it when you should be passing it and passing it when you should be running it. I didn't hate Fairchild's philosophy; I hated his gameplanning and his predictability. When you run it 16 of 18 first downs against the Browns (up until the last drive of the game), regardless of the weather for that game, you become utterly predictable and even average DC's and porous defenses can adjust accordingly and stop you, which is what happened.

Anyway, I'm digressing. Jauron doesn't have a track record for OC's worth putting much- if any- trust in, but I'm going to give Schonert a chance. However homeristic that sounds, it's fair. And Edwards has a strong repoire with him, which is one reason to possibly be encouraged.

[BidsJr]

As a QB coach. Edwards would be the first QB he's ever successfully groomed, if it turns out that way. But what record does he have to earn a promotion?


Do you honestly think that Manning, Brady, Montana, Elway, Kelly etc were products of their wildly successful QB coaches?

I think the opposite is true, and that Schoenert has had crappy QB's doesn't disqualify him from being a good OC.

Not saying he will end up as a good one. Using the logic that he couldn't make Chris Weinke into Tom Brady = therefore he would suck as a OC, is flawed logic at best.

[Philagape]

Do you honestly think that Manning, Brady, Montana, Elway, Kelly etc were products of their wildly successful QB coaches?

I think the opposite is true, and that Schoenert has had crappy QB's doesn't disqualify him from being a good OC.

Not saying he will end up as a good one. Using the logic that he couldn't make Chris Weinke into Tom Brady = therefore he would suck as a OC, is flawed logic at best.

You don't look for a reason not to do it; you look for a reason to do it. I want qualifications, not non-disqualifications. He may not have been a bad QB coach, but he needs a positive record of being a good one that merits promotion. "It's not his fault" is not a reason to reward him.

[Nighthawk]

You don't look for a reason not to do it; you look for a reason to do it. I want qualifications, not non-disqualifications. He may not have been a bad QB coach, but he needs a positive record of being a good one that merits promotion. "It's not his fault" is not a reason to reward him.

Great points and something that you will never get an answer to because there is nothing that support this guy getting hired. The only reason he's getting the job is because Dickey seems to be afraid of change and he can control Turk. Also, let's not forget...it's the cheap way to do it.

[Nighthawk]

ok..who in your mind deserves this position?

That's a great question, but I wouldn't hand it over to a guy who has a record of failure. I would at least investigate possibilities outside of the organization and see if I could bring in some new blood and I'm not against a 1st time coordinator, but I would want him to come with a resume of success...not failure.

[ParanoidAndroid]

If you're going to be an OC, you have to have developed a playbook. Besides, he hasn't even been promoted yet.
Jauron doesn't seem like he was a huge fan of the offense that Fairchild ran and I'm sure the changes he has in mind refer specifically to the playcalling.
I'm also hoping that he has receivers on his mind, too.
This weird assumption that nobody in the FO cares about winning is getting old.

[LABillsFan]

Yup. He and Marv were in Montreal, for crying out loud.

Turk played behind Boomer in Cinci and under Sam Wyche. AVP played behind Kelly and under Marchibroda. Both were 2 of the best Offenses I ever saw. If either guy blows the dust off their old playbook, I'm all for it over losers like Olsen ,Cameron, Martz and whatever other shiny toy is being diplayed in print.

Let's go no huddle.

[venis2k1]

Call me crazy, but here is a name i bet no one has thought of....Sam Wyche.

He didnt do great as a QB coach, But he may make a great OC.

[Buffatexas]

here is the thing I think we are missing. There were times when our offense looked good, like times we ran the no huddle. Where did it go? Seemed like as soon as we did something good, the plays disappeared for what ever reason. I, for one, have not seen the entire playbook. It seemed to me that Fairchild dummed the thing down because of lack of confidence in Losman and Edwards.

With Turk taking the job, I can only hope that he will open the entire book up and then lets see what he is made of regarding gametime decisions and utilizing the whole playbook, instead of just the vanilla parts.