Did I hear Schonert was hired as OC?

[jpdex12]

I could have sworn that I heard on Sirius NFL radio this morning that Schonert was named OC, but then I never heard anything more the rest of the day nor on the internet...

[shelby]

All i can find:


League sources told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that Bills QBs coach Turk Schonert is "in line" be the team's next offensive coordinator.
Schonert has the support of the locker room, but there were indications that Buffalo would look outside the organization. Schonert's offense probably wouldn't be too much different from former coordinator Steve Fairchild's.

link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=2267&line=111203&spln=1)

[Nighthawk]

It's not official, however, it sure seems that mediocrity will continue at One Bills Drive.

[Michael82]

Schonert's offense probably wouldn't be too much different from former coordinator Steve Fairchild's.

That would really piss me off! We had the 30th ranked offense. Why the **** would it be the same?!?! :mad: :curse:

[Nighthawk]

That would really piss me off! We had the 30th ranked offense. Why the **** would it be the same?!?! :mad: :curse:

It's the way they do things at One Bills Drive...and it sucks!

[RockStar36]

It might be a similar system, but it probably will be different. Each person calls a different game, different people, different plays at different situations.

[Confused]

not good news. some one invent a smilie that slits its own wrists.

[jpdex12]

I was getting back in the whip to drive to my next destination and all I know is that I'm sure that I heard Schonert and Buffalo Bills offensive coordinator but I am not sure how they used it on the 2 minute drill.

I thought they said he was hired but they must have been throwing it out there as an option which we ALL already knew.

I drove through two more 2 minute drills and I never heard a word more so must have been speculation.

I would say that it will likely happen though as things are pretty quiet at OBD.

[shelby]

Will :hang: do?

[jdbillsfan]

I don't really think this is that bad. The players won't have to learn a whole new playbook, similar language, etc.

Fairchild didn't call a good game, obviously, but I am sure the right plays are in the playbook, its just a matter of calling the right ones. Hopefully Turk can do that.

I also think a lot of the conservative play calling had to do with the head coach. You could bring in Air Coryell and if Jauron wants to run out the clock at the end of the half with 1:30 left and two timeouts, then thats what is going to happen.

[Bone]

I don't have a problem with it.

[justasportsfan]

Bring back Mularkey. He's cheap but produced more than Fairchild. :ill:

[DMBcrew36]

When Jauron is saying there will be 'big changes with the offensive play-calling,' it leads me to believe the job will go to someone outside the organization. But ofcourse it doesn't have to mean that at all. I personally think a fresh perspective would be very helpful to an offense that has had very few dimensions to it.

[LABillsFan]

This was on another board.

For a while, there appeared the chance that Olson could end up in Buffalo. The Bills lost offensive coordinator Steve Fairchild when he returned to the college ranks as head coach at Colorado State.

Olson worked for Bills head coach Dick Jauron both in Chicago and Detroit. But league sources told the Post-Dispatch on Monday that Bills quarterback coach Turk Schonert is in line to become Buffalo's new offensive coordinator.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/rams/story/4B5E3E236370C35C862573CA00161B83?OpenDocument

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't know what to think of this...

[LABillsFan]

http://www.billszone.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10109/smilie_Throat.jpg

This is all I could do without spending any real time on it

[LABillsFan]

I don't know what to think of this...

Whose to say. I'm sure there are a few people in line. The article however didn't say who the front runner was.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Let's face it, the Bills are not going to go out and hire some big-name OC who is going to come in and radically alter the offensive philosophy of the team--it's simply not going to happen. And, right now, the Bills are not in a position where they have the personnel in place to make any radically different offense work well anyway.

That being the case, I don't think that hiring Schonert as OC, even if he doesn't change the basic offense, would necessarily be a bad thing. And, here's why:

1.) The players know the offense and believe that it can work. Before the season began, the Bills players were very excited about the explosive potential of the offense. Even now, Evans has stated that he believes that the offense can be successful (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5779 ). What upset the players was not the basic offense, but the play-calling.

2.) Evans and others believe that continuity, in terms of using the same system is important: "Ideally you want the same system so you don't have to start from a complete ground zero," said Lee Evanshttp://buffalobills.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5784#). "Even when a new coordinator comes in you still have to get used to how he calls games and things like that. But from a system standpoint, being in the same system will go a long way. That's pretty much the basis of where you start to build." (http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5784 )

3.) Bringing in a new OC who would install a new offense would be a setback for Trent Edwards who is only just beginning to learn this offense: “Understanding it is one thing and going out and living it is another,” Gannon said. “It takes awhile to be able to process the information and get in and out of bad plays and know where the weakness of the coverage is. It takes awhile, but I see him making progress.”

“He’s made great strides in understanding the game,” Schonert said. “I always tell them, they’ve got this vast, expansive library back here , and you’ve just got to keep filling it, filling it. And then you’ve got to draw from it. He’s one of those guys that does that. He can draw back from his experience.” (http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/244768.html )

4.) Unimaginative play-calling was only part of the problem last season. Part of the problem was how the QBs executed the plays: "Schonert said Edwards learned to be a bit more patient about looking downfield as the season wore on.

“You don’t want to make the big mistake so sometimes you get off your downfield read a little quick and dump it off,” Schonert said. “He had a tendency to do that. When he sat down [after being injured] he watched J.P. You can always learn from other guys. I think he saw J.P. get it down the field a little bit. So he sensed he’s got to be a little more patient when we have some downfield throws...." (http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/244768.html )

5.) Schonert knows Edwards and the Bills' other offensive players and he knows what they are capable of and has seen what they are not capable of doing. He knows their strengths and their weaknesses. And, having worked with Edwards as QB coach this season, he should have a pretty good sense of how the Bills' QB is progressing and will progress.

6.) Schonert has the confidence of Evans, who will have to play an important part in any progress that the Bills make on offense next season: "Evans is in favor of continuity, which to him would mean keeping the offensive scheme the same. He's also voiced approval for current quarterbacks coach [I]Turk Schonerthttp://www.buffalobills.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5779#) as a coordinator candidate.

"I like Turk," said Evans. "Judging from talking to him on the sidelines about plays this year and what he would do if it were different he certainly has a good head on his shoulders. Obviously having played the game before, he's very acclimated to what it's like to play, so it would be a good move." (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5779 )


The reality is that any offense is going to struggle if the play-calling is so predictable that even the fans, let alone the opposing defense, know what is coming virtually as soon as the offense breaks the huddle. Unless you have superior players and superior execution, the defense is going to win when they know what is coming. But, just because Fairchild allowed his play-calling to become predictable, that does not mean that the plays in the play-book can't work if called in a less predictable manner and properly executed.

Similarly, if you have a rookie QB who is tipping off your running plays and is so afraid of turning the ball over that he checks down even when the play includes an option for a deep pass, your offense is going to struggle (the Rams offense under M.Martz struggled when he went with M.Bulger at QB before it regained its explosiveness). With few exceptions it takes rookie QBs time to learn the game and teams with rookie QBs as their starting QBs usually do struggle on offense. Trent Edwards is just beginning to learn this offensive system--and as a result of his experiences playing in it last season can learn from his mistakes and begin to eliminate them. If the Bills bring in an OC who installs a new offense, Edwards will have to learn that offense--which means virtually starting over again.

Poor play-calling, some of which was attributable to Fairchild's desire to protect his rookie QB, and inconsistent, sub-par QB play--understandable from a rookie QB--were the two primary reasons for the failure of the Bills offense this past season. Add to that the lack of a # 2 WR on the outside who could help L.Evans stretch the field and take some of the coverage away from Evans, and the lack of a deep threat at TE to keep opposing defenses from stacking the box against the run and give Edwards better options in the passing game.

It's not necessarily the system or the plays, but rather who is calling them and who is executing them. Without changing the system, Schonert could offer the solution to the first of those problems. It will be up to the front office and Edwards to address the second. Continued improvement by Edwards would go a long way to do that, but the front office will have to give him and whoever the next OC is the talent to work with as well.

[RedEyE]

I'm alright with it. I think Turk knows Edwards and seriously knows his abilities and inabilites and will open the offense up accordingly. Of course, all of this will be proven by way of how the Bills draft this season. If they snag a WR in the 1st and a TE in the 2nd, they don't really have a choice but to open it up.

IMO, the defense will be coming back young but experienced. The high picks should go to offense this season.

[Night Train]

1. We need a TE and a #2 WR
2. The OL can pass block and needs some changes to the run blocking scheme.
3. The QB needs to throw beyond the first down marker, instead of underneath it.

There. Now send this to Schonert and see if he agrees with it. If not, hire someone else.

[YardRat]

I like the move, and hope Schonert gets his shot at the job.

All things considered, at least it would be interesting to see how a different guy puts together a game plan and calls the plays using the same stuff.

[colin]

i'm only concerned w the results.

if we keep the same system, we absolutly need a TE in addition to a WR.

we need a big wr, some one who can do slants and corners and the like. he doesn't have to be 6'5" or whatever, but he has to be physical. moulds back before he hurt is groin would be a monster for us (just like then, only more so!!).

we need a high quality TE, there are 2 in FA and by most counts 3 in the draft, so we can get one if we want.

[madness]

Another great post, LBF. :bf1:

That pretty much covers everything... unless you like to dingle your balls while shouting "mediocrity" from the rooftops.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Let's face it, the Bills are not going to go out and hire some big-name OC who is going to come in and radically alter the offensive philosophy of the team--it's simply not going to happen. And, right now, the Bills are not in a position where they have the personnel in place to make any radically different offense work well anyway.

That being the case, I don't think that hiring Schonert as OC, even if he doesn't change the basic offense, would necessarily be a bad thing. And, here's why:

1.) The players know the offense and believe that it can work. Before the season began, the Bills players were very excited about the explosive potential of the offense. Even now, Evans has stated that he believes that the offense can be successful (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5779 ). What upset the players was not the basic offense, but the play-calling.

2.) Evans and others believe that continuity, in terms of using the same system is important: "Ideally you want the same system so you don't have to start from a complete ground zero," said Lee Evanshttp://buffalobills.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5784#). "Even when a new coordinator comes in you still have to get used to how he calls games and things like that. But from a system standpoint, being in the same system will go a long way. That's pretty much the basis of where you start to build." (http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5784 )

3.) Bringing in a new OC who would install a new offense would be a setback for Trent Edwards who is only just beginning to learn this offense: “Understanding it is one thing and going out and living it is another,” Gannon said. “It takes awhile to be able to process the information and get in and out of bad plays and know where the weakness of the coverage is. It takes awhile, but I see him making progress.”

“He’s made great strides in understanding the game,” Schonert said. “I always tell them, they’ve got this vast, expansive library back here , and you’ve just got to keep filling it, filling it. And then you’ve got to draw from it. He’s one of those guys that does that. He can draw back from his experience.” (http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/244768.html )

4.) Unimaginative play-calling was only part of the problem last season. Part of the problem was how the QBs executed the plays: "Schonert said Edwards learned to be a bit more patient about looking downfield as the season wore on.

“You don’t want to make the big mistake so sometimes you get off your downfield read a little quick and dump it off,” Schonert said. “He had a tendency to do that. When he sat down [after being injured] he watched J.P. You can always learn from other guys. I think he saw J.P. get it down the field a little bit. So he sensed he’s got to be a little more patient when we have some downfield throws...." (http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/244768.html )

5.) Schonert knows Edwards and the Bills' other offensive players and he knows what they are capable of and has seen what they are not capable of doing. He knows their strengths and their weaknesses. And, having worked with Edwards as QB coach this season, he should have a pretty good sense of how the Bills' QB is progressing and will progress.

6.) Schonert has the confidence of Evans, who will have to play an important part in any progress that the Bills make on offense next season: "Evans is in favor of continuity, which to him would mean keeping the offensive scheme the same. He's also voiced approval for current quarterbacks coach [I]Turk Schonerthttp://www.buffalobills.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5779#) as a coordinator candidate.

"I like Turk," said Evans. "Judging from talking to him on the sidelines about plays this year and what he would do if it were different he certainly has a good head on his shoulders. Obviously having played the game before, he's very acclimated to what it's like to play, so it would be a good move." (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5779 )


The reality is that any offense is going to struggle if the play-calling is so predictable that even the fans, let alone the opposing defense, know what is coming virtually as soon as the offense breaks the huddle. Unless you have superior players and superior execution, the defense is going to win when they know what is coming. But, just because Fairchild allowed his play-calling to become predictable, that does not mean that the plays in the play-book can't work if called in a less predictable manner and properly executed.

Similarly, if you have a rookie QB who is tipping off your running plays and is so afraid of turning the ball over that he checks down even when the play includes an option for a deep pass, your offense is going to struggle (the Rams offense under M.Martz struggled when he went with M.Bulger at QB before it regained its explosiveness). With few exceptions it takes rookie QBs time to learn the game and teams with rookie QBs as their starting QBs usually do struggle on offense. Trent Edwards is just beginning to learn this offensive system--and as a result of his experiences playing in it last season can learn from his mistakes and begin to eliminate them. If the Bills bring in an OC who installs a new offense, Edwards will have to learn that offense--which means virtually starting over again.

Poor play-calling, some of which was attributable to Fairchild's desire to protect his rookie QB, and inconsistent, sub-par QB play--understandable from a rookie QB--were the two primary reasons for the failure of the Bills offense this past season. Add to that the lack of a # 2 WR on the outside who could help L.Evans stretch the field and take some of the coverage away from Evans, and the lack of a deep threat at TE to keep opposing defenses from stacking the box against the run and give Edwards better options in the passing game.

It's not necessarily the system or the plays, but rather who is calling them and who is executing them. Without changing the system, Schonert could offer the solution to the first of those problems. It will be up to the front office and Edwards to address the second. Continued improvement by Edwards would go a long way to do that, but the front office will have to give him and whoever the next OC is the talent to work with as well.

This is a good way to look at this. Who's to say that Shonert doesn't call a much better game?

[jamze132]

I don't think the offense was the problem. There are a lot of nice plays in there, its just a matter of calling them the right way. Fairchild didn't know what the **** he was doing on gameday.

[bigbub2352]

1. We need a TE and a #2 WR
2. The OL can pass block and needs some changes to the run blocking scheme.
3. The QB needs to throw beyond the first down marker, instead of underneath it.

There. Now send this to Schonert and see if he agrees with it. If not, hire someone else.
Couldnt agree more

I think we tweak a little on the run blocking, add a C a maller, and get som push off the line of scrimmage and we get our selves a legit number 2 WR, and a legit TE that can stretch the feild we can really make some strides on offense

[yordad]

LifeTimeBillsFan. Dang, you know how to reply to a thread. But, I have to disagree some.

First, Lee was supposed to say what he said. It is standard operating procedure. I know earlier in the year he endorced JP (which I think he did rightfully), but maybe he learned something from that. I won't question his integrity, but maybe he learned to bite his tongue a little bit. After all, JP got benched right after calling for a less predictable offense. Lee is going into what is likely his contract year. He has to "play ball", in more then one sense of the phrase.

Also, you are assuming this offense is good, and just has bad play calling. I know some where talking about being excited coming in (again, standard operating procedure). But, for me, the proof is in the pudding, and this pudding looked spoiled.

That said, I think they are most likely promoting from within, so I hope your right.

But, I will add that I heard on the news they were waiting to hire a GM before they interview for OC. Maybe that is the reason for the delay. And, maybe the next GM is on a playoff team, since they have no interviews scheduled for today or tommorrow. Polian's son maybe?

[justasportsfan]

This is one time where I would think this is a "whats Evans suppose to say?" situation .

What has Schonert done? Neither JP or Trent are anything special. Contunuity? I don't want Trent to continue doing what he learned from Fairchild.

[djjimkelly]

if this is true the sky is now falling.

:rage:

[Jan Reimers]

With a maturing Edwards, a big 2nd receiver, an athletic TE, and some improved run blocking, Schonert may turn into a genius.

I think in many cases, good talent makes for good coaches.

[Night Train]

With a maturing Edwards, a big 2nd receiver, an athletic TE, and some improved run blocking, Schonert may turn into a genius.

I think in many cases, good talent makes for good coaches.

Professor Hoodie in Foxboro would 2nd that.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

LifeTimeBillsFan. Dang, you know how to reply to a thread. But, I have to disagree some.

First, Lee was supposed to say what he said. It is standard operating procedure. I know earlier in the year he endorced JP (which I think he did rightfully), but maybe he learned something from that. I won't question his integrity, but maybe he learned to bite his tongue a little bit. After all, JP got benched right after calling for a less predictable offense. Lee is going into what is likely his contract year. He has to "play ball", in more then one sense of the phrase.

Also, you are assuming this offense is good, and just has bad play calling. I know some where talking about being excited coming in (again, standard operating procedure). But, for me, the proof is in the pudding, and this pudding looked spoiled....


This is one time where I would think this is a "whats Evans suppose to say?" situation .

What has Schonert done? Neither JP or Trent are anything special. Contunuity? I don't want Trent to continue doing what he learned from Fairchild.

Ironically, the answers to your points about Edwards--and Evans' comments about him--appeared in a piece that appeared today where R.Evans, B.Billick and A.Reid are all quoted as saying very positive things about Edwards: see "Edwards Leaves Impression On NFL Coaches" (URL: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5799 )

Of course you can answer by saying "what do you expect them to say, they are being interviewed by BB.com, so of course they are going to be nice".

But the answer to that is very simple: "EDWARDS, LYNCH MAKE ROOKIE TEAM: Trent Edwards and Marshawn Lynch both made the Pro Football Weekly/Pro Football Writers of America All-Rookie team. Here's the listing of the entire rookie team.
Offense
QB Trent Edwards, Bills...."
(URL: http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1 )

Nobody paid the writers to name Edwards to the All-Rookie team and you know that they were going to go out of the way to name any Bills to the squad because they like the Bills or were trying to be polite.

Edwards still has a long way to go. But, comparing him to a veteran who has been around--even a Derek Anderson who has spent time on the bench--and expecting him to play like a veteran--and there are guys here who would be critical if he played like T.Brady or P.Manning, wondering why he missed this throw or that (J.Kelly got criticized by the same kinds of people when he was leading the Bills to those SBs--and don't tell me that he wasn't because I was there and I hear 'em!)--when he is still wet behind the ears as a NFL QB is simply unfair. Obviously people around the league see something there, so give the guy a chance to develop!

If, in a couple more years he is still floundering about like JP Losman, that's a different story, but if you keep getting rid of QBs because they don't look like B.Roethlisberger, D.Marino and P.Manning (heck, even E.Manning doesn't look like his older brother 4 years into the league!), you're going to end up waiting a long time for you "saviour" to come along because those guys don't come around that often. And, you are going to get stuck with a whole lot of sub-par QB play while you are switching QBs tryijng to find him.

Now, as far as the plays go, when it comes down to it, there are only so many plays that you can run: yes, there are variations and different combinations and different ways of combining routes, etc., but NFL teams all pretty much run some variation or another of the same plays. They may run them slightly differently, they may sequence them differently, but there aren't a whole lot of new plays that teams come up with and usually when a team comes up with something new that works, with all of the film study that teams do, it isn't long before teams around the league are copying it.

What makes the difference between the good teams and the bad ones can be found in certain areas:

1.) consistent execution and talent: Everybody talks about talent because the NFL and its media partners promote stars, but it has been said that the difference in talent between the best NFL teams and the worst is about 2 %. Every team has talent, but talent without consistent execution will struggle to win. Now, that does not mean that talent is not important--we've all seenhow the Bills # 2 WRs struggled to get open this season: talent can help the players execute better and more consistently. But, consistent execution, which means minimizing even the most trivial mistakes, is what drives the great teams (just listen to what Brady and Belichick are saying when they do actually say something). Very few teams have so much talent that they have an All-Pro at every position, but every good team has had less talented players at their position who executed consistently. And, while it helps to keep the opposition off balance (see next point), teams have been very successful in the NFL running a limited number of plays, even when the opposition knew what they were doing, because they were able to execute consistently.

2.) A successful mix of play-calls (timing) and keeping the opposition off balance--a good mix of play calls that allows a team to keep their opponents off balance can go a long way to helping a team be successful. "Hit 'em where they ain't!" works as well in football as it does in warfare and can help make up for a certain degree of inconsistency in execution or lack of talent. But, while consistent predictability and poor play-calling can doom a team, it is difficult, especially with all of the film study and computer breakdowns of opposition tendencies that goes on around the NFL, for any coach or coaching staff to always have such good timing that they are able to keep the opposition off balance all of the time. Good play-calling can only take a team so far even if it gets reasonably consistent execution.

3.) Consistent quality QB play--while there are a lot of factors that go into getting consistent quality QB play, you have to have a QB who is capable of delivering quality QB play consistently first. A QB doesn't have to be great to provide quality play from the position and even a great or very good QB can end up being inconsistent if he or the team around him doesn't play well (witness Roethlisberger in 2006 and Palmer this season). Having a great QB who can make all of the throws consistently and get the team out of bad plays and into good ones when the OC does not make a good call can go a long way to helping a team execute consistently. Top QB play can make a good team better than it would otherwise be: witness D.Brees with N.O. in 2006 and what B.Favre has accomplished with G.B this season.

There are other factors that I'm not going to go into here for the sake of time/space. But, when you look at these three keys, you have to admit that the Bills have not done well in any one of the three the last 2 seasons.

Youth and inexperience have contributed a lot to the team's inconsistency in execution, as well as the injuries that they suffered this season. Injuries had a noticeable impact on execution on special teams and execution and play-calling on defense. An added infusion of talent and improved execution as the Bills young players gain experience should lead to at least some improvement in this area.

We all know about the play-calling on both offense and defense. While we hope a new OC will bring about big changes in productivity on offense, I would argue that even better play-calling will not make the kind of difference that most Bills fans are looking for unless the team executes better more consistently and, just as importantly, get better, more consistent QB play next season.

Edwards has shown that he has poise and presence and flashes of being able to provide quality QB play, but he still has a lot to learn. While he played pretty well for a rookie, he was still a rookie and it showed when he checked down rather than wait for his deep patterns to develop and was tipping off the Bills' running plays. He will have to correct those things and a host of other things if he is going to be able to give the Bills the quality QB play that they need. The Bills FO is going to have to give him some better weapons and his teammates are going to have to execute better around him, too. If that happens, even if the play-calling is only marginally better, the Bills will be more productive next season. If the play-calling improves and Edwards advances to the point where he is able to help in the play-calling by checking out of bad plays and into good ones, the offense can be even better still.

But, if Edwards doesn't improve and the Bills don't execute better and more consistently around him, you could make the reincarnation of Don Coryell or Bill Walsh the Bills OC and the productivity would still be sub-par. If Turk Schonert becomes the OC and he can nuture Edwards to the next level and get his teammates to play better, it won't matter if they are running the same system--if they can keep the opposition off balance and execute consistently, they will be more productive and that will give the team a better chance to win games, even against quality opposition.

Now, I know that those are some big IFs, but every team, even the one that lifts the Lombardi Trophy after the end of the Super Bowl, is going to have some IFs going into next season. THat's why they play the games and hop springs eternal!

[yordad]

Ironically, the answers to your points about Edwards--and Evans' comments about him--appeared in a piece that appeared today where R.Evans, B.Billick and A.Reid are all quoted as saying very positive things about Edwards: see "Edwards Leaves Impression On NFL Coaches" (URL: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5799 )

Of course you can answer by saying "what do you expect them to say, they are being interviewed by BB.com, so of course they are going to be nice".

But the answer to that is very simple: "EDWARDS, LYNCH MAKE ROOKIE TEAM: Trent Edwards and Marshawn Lynch both made the Pro Football Weekly/Pro Football Writers of America All-Rookie team. Here's the listing of the entire rookie team.
Offense
QB Trent Edwards, Bills...."
(URL: http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1 )

Nobody paid the writers to name Edwards to the All-Rookie team and you know that they were going to go out of the way to name any Bills to the squad because they like the Bills or were trying to be polite.

Edwards still has a long way to go. But, comparing him to a veteran who has been around--even a Derek Anderson who has spent time on the bench--and expecting him to play like a veteran--and there are guys here who would be critical if he played like T.Brady or P.Manning, wondering why he missed this throw or that (J.Kelly got criticized by the same kinds of people when he was leading the Bills to those SBs--and don't tell me that he wasn't because I was there and I hear 'em!)--when he is still wet behind the ears as a NFL QB is simply unfair. Obviously people around the league see something there, so give the guy a chance to develop!

If, in a couple more years he is still floundering about like JP Losman, that's a different story, but if you keep getting rid of QBs because they don't look like B.Roethlisberger, D.Marino and P.Manning (heck, even E.Manning doesn't look like his older brother 4 years into the league!), you're going to end up waiting a long time for you "saviour" to come along because those guys don't come around that often. And, you are going to get stuck with a whole lot of sub-par QB play while you are switching QBs tryijng to find him.

Now, as far as the plays go, when it comes down to it, there are only so many plays that you can run: yes, there are variations and different combinations and different ways of combining routes, etc., but NFL teams all pretty much run some variation or another of the same plays. They may run them slightly differently, they may sequence them differently, but there aren't a whole lot of new plays that teams come up with and usually when a team comes up with something new that works, with all of the film study that teams do, it isn't long before teams around the league are copying it.

What makes the difference between the good teams and the bad ones can be found in certain areas:

1.) consistent execution and talent: Everybody talks about talent because the NFL and its media partners promote stars, but it has been said that the difference in talent between the best NFL teams and the worst is about 2 %. Every team has talent, but talent without consistent execution will struggle to win. Now, that does not mean that talent is not important--we've all seenhow the Bills # 2 WRs struggled to get open this season: talent can help the players execute better and more consistently. But, consistent execution, which means minimizing even the most trivial mistakes, is what drives the great teams (just listen to what Brady and Belichick are saying when they do actually say something). Very few teams have so much talent that they have an All-Pro at every position, but every good team has had less talented players at their position who executed consistently. And, while it helps to keep the opposition off balance (see next point), teams have been very successful in the NFL running a limited number of plays, even when the opposition knew what they were doing, because they were able to execute consistently.

2.) A successful mix of play-calls (timing) and keeping the opposition off balance--a good mix of play calls that allows a team to keep their opponents off balance can go a long way to helping a team be successful. "Hit 'em where they ain't!" works as well in football as it does in warfare and can help make up for a certain degree of inconsistency in execution or lack of talent. But, while consistent predictability and poor play-calling can doom a team, it is difficult, especially with all of the film study and computer breakdowns of opposition tendencies that goes on around the NFL, for any coach or coaching staff to always have such good timing that they are able to keep the opposition off balance all of the time. Good play-calling can only take a team so far even if it gets reasonably consistent execution.

3.) Consistent quality QB play--while there are a lot of factors that go into getting consistent quality QB play, you have to have a QB who is capable of delivering quality QB play consistently first. A QB doesn't have to be great to provide quality play from the position and even a great or very good QB can end up being inconsistent if he or the team around him doesn't play well (witness Roethlisberger in 2006 and Palmer this season). Having a great QB who can make all of the throws consistently and get the team out of bad plays and into good ones when the OC does not make a good call can go a long way to helping a team execute consistently. Top QB play can make a good team better than it would otherwise be: witness D.Brees with N.O. in 2006 and what B.Favre has accomplished with G.B this season.

There are other factors that I'm not going to go into here for the sake of time/space. But, when you look at these three keys, you have to admit that the Bills have not done well in any one of the three the last 2 seasons.

Youth and inexperience have contributed a lot to the team's inconsistency in execution, as well as the injuries that they suffered this season. Injuries had a noticeable impact on execution on special teams and execution and play-calling on defense. An added infusion of talent and improved execution as the Bills young players gain experience should lead to at least some improvement in this area.

We all know about the play-calling on both offense and defense. While we hope a new OC will bring about big changes in productivity on offense, I would argue that even better play-calling will not make the kind of difference that most Bills fans are looking for unless the team executes better more consistently and, just as importantly, get better, more consistent QB play next season.

Edwards has shown that he has poise and presence and flashes of being able to provide quality QB play, but he still has a lot to learn. While he played pretty well for a rookie, he was still a rookie and it showed when he checked down rather than wait for his deep patterns to develop and was tipping off the Bills' running plays. He will have to correct those things and a host of other things if he is going to be able to give the Bills the quality QB play that they need. The Bills FO is going to have to give him some better weapons and his teammates are going to have to execute better around him, too. If that happens, even if the play-calling is only marginally better, the Bills will be more productive next season. If the play-calling improves and Edwards advances to the point where he is able to help in the play-calling by checking out of bad plays and into good ones, the offense can be even better still.

But, if Edwards doesn't improve and the Bills don't execute better and more consistently around him, you could make the reincarnation of Don Coryell or Bill Walsh the Bills OC and the productivity would still be sub-par. If Turk Schonert becomes the OC and he can nuture Edwards to the next level and get his teammates to play better, it won't matter if they are running the same system--if they can keep the opposition off balance and execute consistently, they will be more productive and that will give the team a better chance to win games, even against quality opposition.

Now, I know that those are some big IFs, but every team, even the one that lifts the Lombardi Trophy after the end of the Super Bowl, is going to have some IFs going into next season. THat's why they play the games and hop springs eternal!Well, I thought this was a thread about the OC. I don't know how this turned into a JP vs TE thread but.....

If TE will be better, fine. Start him when he is better.

All rookie QB?
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=0&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Find
Not exactly huge competition. Besides, I agree he looked solid for a rookie. But, I think you will agree "solid for a rookie" doesn't mean "good for a QB".

I was never advocating we get rid of TE, so I don't know where that came from. In fact, I'm one for continuity. Continuity breeds consistancy. I just think that it is a shame JP consistantly got no continuity.

I don't understand how you can make all these arguments about the youth of the team, and the inadaquate play caling in favor of TE, but ignore it as an argument in favor of JP.

"The Bills FO is going to have to give him some better weapons and his teammates are going to have to execute better around him, too. If that happens, even if the play-calling is only marginally better, the Bills will be more productive next season." You don't think the same could be said with JP as QB?

In short, I think you have mistaken me being objective, for me being a TE hater.

[Spiderweb]

I don't really think this is that bad. The players won't have to learn a whole new playbook, similar language, etc.

Fairchild didn't call a good game, obviously, but I am sure the right plays are in the playbook, its just a matter of calling the right ones. Hopefully Turk can do that.

I also think a lot of the conservative play calling had to do with the head coach. You could bring in Air Coryell and if Jauron wants to run out the clock at the end of the half with 1:30 left and two timeouts, then thats what is going to happen.

It's just calling the plays. The Bills have to do a much better job running multiple plays (different) out of the same sets. It's called "tendencies". So not only were the plays calls predictable, the tendencies an open book, we even had Edwards tipping the opposition off to specific plays himself (that Gannon picked up on real quick in our last game).

[justasportsfan]

LBF, I'm just playing devils advocate here.

remember how Peyton Manning and Dungy endorsed the fins OC way back when Wanny was the coach? He stunk it up.

I doubt anyone will say anything negative about another person when media asks.

Lets not forget who wrote that article. BB.com.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Well, I thought this was a thread about the OC. I don't know how this turned into a JP vs TE thread but.....

If TE will be better, fine. Start him when he is better.

All rookie QB?
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=0&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Find
Not exactly huge competition. Besides, I agree he looked solid for a rookie. But, I think you will agree "solid for a rookie" doesn't mean "good for a QB".

I was never advocating we get rid of TE, so I don't know where that came from. In fact, I'm one for continuity. Continuity breeds consistancy. I just think that it is a shame JP consistantly got no continuity.

I don't understand how you can make all these arguments about the youth of the team, and the inadaquate play caling in favor of TE, but ignore it as an argument in favor of JP.

"The Bills FO is going to have to give him some better weapons and his teammates are going to have to execute better around him, too. If that happens, even if the play-calling is only marginally better, the Bills will be more productive next season." You don't think the same could be said with JP as QB?

In short, I think you have mistaken me being objective, for me being a TE hater.

I don't know where you got the idea that I was making this into a JP vs TE thread. But, that was not my intention by any means.

I was responding to your statement that "Lee was supposed to say what he said" and your assertion, in your statement that "the proof is in the pudding, and this pudding looked spoiled", that the offensive system could not work because it did not work this season.

I refered to TE in my response to you because, like it or not, Edwards is going to be the starting QB for the Bills going into next season and, having started half of the team's games this season, he was responsible, directly and indirectly, for a large part of how the offense was run and produced this year.

My intent was to point out how the same offensive system could be more productive next season and why it was not as productive as it might have been this season. Also, I was trying to point out that at least some of the key players have confidence that the system can be more productive and that they also have confidence in Edwards being able to make it more productive next season.

In addition, I was also trying to respond to those who have doubts that TE can develop into a quality NFL starting QB by pointing out that not only do his teammates have confidence in him, but neutral observers also have seen his performance this season as placing him ahead of his draft peers at this stage.

As far as JP Losman is concerned, I strongly supported him coming into this season and even when he struggled the first two games. Personally, I like the guy: I think the interview that he did with USA Today before the season was the best thing for the City of Buffalo that I have seen appear in a national publication in YEARS. I would have loved nothing more than for him to pick up where he left off at the end of the 2006 season with his play this year. However, his overall performance, particularly after returning from his injury and in comparison to Edwards' performance this season, has led me to believe that Edwards has the potential to give the Bills more and more consistent quality play at the QB position going forward.

As for your comment that the same short-comings in the Bills team and play-calling applied to Losman as they did for Edwards, all of that is true. The difference is that Edwards was a rookie and Losman a four year veteran. A four year veteran should be able to better read defenses; call audibles to get his team out of bad plays and into good ones; know how to set his feet consistently so that he doesn't bounce passes to his RBs in the flat because he is throwing off of his back foot instead of stepping into the throw; feel the pressure and either unload the ball or step away from the pressure instead of holding onto the ball and even turning into the pressure; etc. I'm sorry, but, as much as I love Losman's arm, athleticism and affection for Buffalo, there are some things that you expect a 4 year veteran to have learned--even sitting on the bench--and improved on that you would not expect to see from a rookie. And, as a result, I will give the rookie more leeway for the mistakes that he makes as opposed to a 4 year veteran. Yes, I now that JP was jerked around and did not have the kind of team around him that would have allowed him to shine, but I never expected him to play like P.Manning or even B.Roethlisberger with the team that he had around him--what I did expect was that he would perform and lead his team better than a raw rookie. And, the fact of the matter is that when people point out that Losman's stats were equal to or better than Edwards, my answer is that they should be. With four years of being in the league, he should be familiar with the speed of the game, know the defenses and how to read them, have worked on correcting the flaws in his passing technique, not only have established a rapport with his primary receiver, but with his secondary receivers as well, etc.--in short, a 4 year veteran should be able to perform significantly better than a rookie. If he can't--or if you have a rookie who is able to perform nearly as well as a 4 year veteran--you have to give the rookie a chance to show if he can develop into the kind of QB who can take your team to a Super Bowl. And, that's apparently what Dick Jauron and his staff have decided to do.

I'm not going to argue with the decision that Jauron and his staff have made because whether I agree with it or not (which I do) is immaterial: Jauron and his staff don't care what I think and are going to do what they are going to do anyway. But, in analyzing the team and what its potential may be, I am going to take that decision into consideration. And, that's what I did in responding to you: I talked about Edwards running the offense because that's who Jauron and Co. have decided will be running the Bills offense next season.

It's that simple--it's not about what I think of JP or TE, it's about whether the offensive system that they ran this year can be a productive offensive system or not (which I think it can be with more talent, experience and consistent execution as well as better play-calling). I thought that was apparent in what I had written and that you would understand that. I'm sorry if that wasn't the case--perhaps I could have made that more clear.

[yordad]

Warning: Complicated comparison is about to be made......

I have a drink. It is 50% alcohol (drink A). Taste great for some. And, I have a drink that is 10% alcohol (drink B). Also taste great for some (mostly chicks, or way-too conservative coaches).

Now, in an actual, perfect, non-watered down world, these drinks are worlds apart. Actually, they are 40% worth of alcohol apart. Liquor-lovers (football minded people) know that is a huge difference.

Now, I mix each with 9 parts water, and one part original drink (poor coaching, poor play calling, and poor surrounding talent). Drink A becomes 5% alcohol, and drink B becomes 1% alcohol. Now they aren't "worlds" apart. They are only 4% different. Hard to tell the difference if you only have a drink or two.

Get it?

I believe that is what happened. JP would have been worlds better had he had adequate coaching, adequate surrounding talent, and no watered down flavor. Once better coaching, and more talent is added, if he is no longer in Buffalo to help the team reap the benefits of his 40% stronger, better flavor, then he will be like the worm at the bottom of the tequila glass.

Filled with alcohol, and thrown out, because non-liquor-lovers don't realize the power of the worm.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Yep, JP could end up being Jim Plunkett or Steve Young. No doubt about it. It's happened before and could happen again.

Or, he could end up being Jeff George, Jake Plummer or a host of other big-armed QBs who never quite learned how to play consistently enough to win in the NFL. That's happened before, too.

Or, he could end up being a QB who bounces around the league for a few years before suddenly the "light bulb" goes on and he becomes a quality starter. That's also happened.

But, a coaching staff doesn't have more than half a decade to invest in finding out if a guy is going to come around. They are going to go with the guy that they think will give the team that they have the best chance to win--even if it means winning ugly (think T.Dilfer or B.Johnson)--the sooner the better. And, if a guy is performing at the same level (or nearly so) as a rookie after 4 years, they're going to go with the rookie because 1.) the rookie is learning faster and 2.) whatever the 4 year vet's upside may be, they can't keep sitting around waiting for him to "get it" when they have a guy who is already showing more potential to "get it" sooner (ie potential is upside only when that potential is showing that it is developing consistency).

JP may end up being "the worm at the bottom of the tequila bottle" or not. Only time will tell. Same with Edwards, though. We'll just have to see if Jauron and Co. are right in their evaluation of the two. However, the inescapable fact is that they have chosen Edwards over Losman and that's who we, as Bills fans, are going to have to get used to seeing under center at the beginning of next season (barring injury).

[Meathead]

yeah look at guys like harrington and redman and carr. they gave those guys forever and they never came around as a franchise starter. seems like they gave those guys too long. but sometimes the light does go on and the list of those guys is long too. its just impossible to make that call correctly every time

it is a tad early to give up on jp and in fact i dont think they have really. if jp hadnt got injured in ne the probably would have rode him out a little longer, probably through the season unless he really blew up. but when edwards was forced into action he looked a lot better than the average rookie. so that gave them a reason to consider an alternative and changed the equation for the bills

i still find it quite amusing, in a nutty way, that theres this assumption edwards is so great cuz he obviously has some pretty serious flaws in his game at this point. thats true of virtually any rookie and if watch this game for a while you realize its just a crapshoot on young quarterbacks. yes hes shown plenty enough that he deserved getting his shot when jp struggled more often that he should, but to have confidence edwards is sure to be the man is just crazy at this point

unless they can get something quite good for him id like to see jp stay in the mix next year. lots can happen over the course of a season and if edwards turns out to not be the guy or gets hurt jp could easily have a resurgence. he was steadily improving last year and although he clearly regressed this season that could turn out to be temporary. hell even brett favre had a couple real stinker seasons just recently where it looked like he was close to washed up and look at him now. you never know and it could work out really well for the bills. seems unlikely jps value could go down from here so if they can manage the psychological issues they have little to lose if they cant get something good in trade for him

[justasportsfan]

yeah look at guys like harrington and redman and carr. they gave those guys forever and they never came around as a franchise starter. seems like they gave those guys too long. but sometimes the light does go on and the list of those guys is long too. its just impossible to make that call correctly every time

it is a tad early to give up on jp and in fact i dont think they have really. if jp hadnt got injured in ne the probably would have rode him out a little longer, probably through the season unless he really blew up. but when edwards was forced into action he looked a lot better than the average rookie. so that gave them a reason to consider an alternative and changed the equation for the bills

i still find it quite amusing, in a nutty way, that theres this assumption edwards is so great cuz he obviously has some pretty serious flaws in his game at this point. thats true of virtually any rookie and if watch this game for a while you realize its just a crapshoot on young quarterbacks. yes hes shown plenty enough that he deserved getting his shot when jp struggled more often that he should, but to have confidence edwards is sure to be the man is just crazy at this point

unless they can get something quite good for him id like to see jp stay in the mix next year. lots can happen over the course of a season and if edwards turns out to not be the guy or gets hurt jp could easily have a resurgence. he was steadily improving last year and although he clearly regressed this season that could turn out to be temporary. hell even brett favre had a couple real stinker seasons just recently where it looked like he was close to washed up and look at him now. you never know and it could work out really well for the bills. seems unlikely jps value could go down from here so if they can manage the psychological issues they have little to lose if they cant get something good in trade for him

Fairchilds version of Martz's system was looking worse under JP because Fairchild didn't have an answer when teams clumped down on the deep ball. Trent came in and his ability to get rid fo the ball quick made it look like the O was moving the ball when all it did was basically hide Fairchilds stupidity in Martzs system.

Under Trent, they moved away from what was supposed to be a Martz deep ball system and the O looked like a bland WCO which didn't feed into JPs way of playing football.


This leads me to believe as to why Marv said JP unfaily criticized and why Dick said that JP will still be a good qb. JP had success in 06 but Fairchild could not build on it because he was clueless when teams made adjustments.

Players, fans and even the blind can see that fairchild kept trying to be conservative with his playcalling and Trent made conservatism look decent.