2004 1st rounder QB update

[ghz in pittsburgh]

We have one won a superbowl two years ago. and the other two in their 4th year went on to the conference championship game.

And we have one who lost his job to a rookie. A 3rd round rookie no less.

Yet so many are whining that the one lost his starting job is so much better than the others.

So whatever you want to say about Eli Manning. Maybe he is growing in front of your eyes. Maybe, just maybe, that "horrible" game in Buffalo before he went on his current hot streak is not that horrible after all. Heck Edwards fared worse. Maybe the weather has something to do with it?

There is a reason Losman was taken 4th that year whereas the others were in top 11: a significant risk. That risk became a reality. No one, I repeat no one other than guys like Mike would rather have Loman over any of the other 3.

[Oaf]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

We were so close to Big Ben.

[Don't Panic]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

I'll take mt chances with Trent... it would be extremely hard to root for Eli Manning - even in a Bills uniform.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

Seems like we officially got the dud. Out of the first 5 taken we got the worst guy.

The good news is that Trent might be the best out of the 5 taken in 2007.

[patmoran2006]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

ya gotta put that 100% on the shoulders of Donahoe and Modrak. It was a terrible move, as evidenced three years later.

Losman with all his physical skills, never showed the maturity and emotional capabilities to consistently be a good quarterback in this league. Not only did we reach for a QB instead of taking a good player; we gave up an extra first round draft pick to do it. I dont remember and I could very easily be wrong, but didnt Dallas end up with DeMarcus Ware in Buffalo's spot of the draft? Or something like that, I dont remember, it's irrelevent.

It's easily one of the worst moves Donahoe and Modrak ever made.

[Kerr]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

ya gotta put that 100% on the shoulders of Donahoe and Modrak. It was a terrible move, as evidenced three years later.

Losman with all his physical skills, never showed the maturity and emotional capabilities to consistently be a good quarterback in this league. Not only did we reach for a QB instead of taking a good player; we gave up an extra first round draft pick to do it. I dont remember and I could very easily be wrong, but didnt Dallas end up with DeMarcus Ware in Buffalo's spot of the draft? Or something like that, I dont remember, it's irrelevent.

It's easily one of the worst moves Donahoe and Modrak ever made.

Agreed. Jp's the type of the qb that needs the right coaches and system. Jp sold himself to the bills. He made a great pitch with his confidence and demeanor. That was enough for TD apparently.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

That's why I don't understand so much criticism of the current regime, lile Pat.

Donahoe's theme is gamble on big talent. Look down the names of Clement, Wiliiams, McGahee, Evans, Losman, all are long on physical capabilities. He's betting the talent will come through, even it might take several years on the bench. That was consistent with what he did in Pittsburgh. This approach can produce big stars, but it will have its share of busts because it is extremely difficult to project players' development in NFL couple of years down the road.

Levy may not be a hands-on GM, but he clearly has a different approach to his staff. That is to draft reliable players in top rounds and gamble on later rounds. Whitner, McCargo, Lynch, Poz are not super elite players, but they are all considered very high quality players not likely to be busts. He gambled on a few. Youbody does not look like going to pan out but Edwards likely to.

I expect that approach to continue in 2008.

[Philagape]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

Agreed. Jp's the type of the qb that needs the right coaches and system.

It's ironic. When his supporters say that's all he needs, they're undermining their own position by admitting that he's a limited, high-maintenance QB that requires much sacrifice of an offense.

[justasportsfan]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

Any qb needs a coach with a brain and an OL . Had Trent been drafted then instead of JP ya'll would be *****ing about him too. He'd be a failure under both Mularkey and Fairchild. Same goes for Eli and Rivers. Even BEn wouldn't have been as good here.

LOl! Moran changing his tune about JP. Some things never change.

[EDS]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

That's why I don't understand so much criticism of the current regime, lile Pat.

Donahoe's theme is gamble on big talent. Look down the names of Clement, Wiliiams, McGahee, Evans, Losman, all are long on physical capabilities. He's betting the talent will come through, even it might take several years on the bench. That was consistent with what he did in Pittsburgh. This approach can produce big stars, but it will have its share of busts because it is extremely difficult to project players' development in NFL couple of years down the road.

Levy may not be a hands-on GM, but he clearly has a different approach to his staff. That is to draft reliable players in top rounds and gamble on later rounds. Whitner, McCargo, Lynch, Poz are not super elite players, but they are all considered very high quality players not likely to be busts. He gambled on a few. Youbody does not look like going to pan out but Edwards likely to.

I expect that approach to continue in 2008.

The only two obvious risks on that list are McGahee and Losman. Clements and Evans were both good picks and Mike Williams was regarded as a safe, good pick at the time.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

Not only did we reach for a QB instead of taking a good player; we gave up an extra first round draft pick to do it.

No they didn't. They gave up the Bills number #1 in 2005 for Dallas #1 in 2004. JP Losman did not cost the Bills two #1 picks.

[justasportsfan]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

No they didn't. They gave up the Bills number #1 in 2005 for Dallas #1 in 2004. JP Losman did not cost the Bills two #1 picks.

Told you Morans sources are screwed up.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

The only two obvious risks on that list are McGahee and Losman. Clements and Evans were both good picks and Mike Williams was regarded as a safe, good pick at the time.

I thought Mike Williams size was a big concern for many people. I know Mouse wasn't with the Bills at the time but he had said on many occasions that big Mike is probably a better at Guard. So there is risk there to draft him as a tackle. Had Mouse been with the Bills at the time, they might've gone in a different direction with the pick.

In any event, big Mike was a bust. Everyone has one of those once in a while. So if we drop him out of there, 2 solid ones and 2 risky ones still not good enough. Forget about QBs, just imagine if the Bills had two more play makers (like a 1st draft pick should be in their 5th and 4th year) right now. They could well be in the playoff.

[EDS]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

I thought Mike Williams size was a big concern for many people. I know Mouse wasn't with the Bills at the time but he had said on many occasions that big Mike is probably a better at Guard. So there is risk there to draft him as a tackle. Had Mouse been with the Bills at the time, they might've gone in a different direction with the pick.

In any event, big Mike was a bust. Everyone has one of those once in a while. So if we drop him out of there, 2 solid ones and 2 risky ones still not good enough. Forget about QBs, just imagine if the Bills had two more play makers (like a 1st draft pick should be in their 5th and 4th year) right now. They could well be in the playoff.

You could argue that Whitner was a risky pick given that he was selected higher then expected and was an underclassman. Lynch was a relatively safe pick - and a logical one with Willis and Okoye off the board. So Marv had one solid one and one risky one.

[trapezeus]

Re: 2004 1st rounder QB update

Regarding the QB class, i'm not convinced on Rivers or Manning. they are surrounded with so much more talent. Rivers throws very poorly and has the maturity of an 8 year old. if he were on the bills, he'd probably have done worse than JP

Eli is so volatile. sure, he's hot right now, but he isn't really playing that well. they just happen to be winning. I've always said if JP and eli switched, their performances would be exactly the same. JP in NYG would be playing just as sporadically, and manning would be completly finished.

That isn't to defend JP. It's just that i think the 2004 class is really hyped up. even roesthlesberger was just a game manager. he's getting better, but he's got the complete team and he kind of melted down as this year went on. i think the media types want to see another 1983 kind of QB class, but 2004 isn't that class.