2 new articles by Mark Weiler on the FP

[shelby]

Do not read them if you are going to rant and ***** and make personal attacks against him. Any TOS violations will result in warning points, and the offending posts will be split out of this thread.

Two new articles by WysGuy. Interesting, as always. It appears Mark is divorcing the Bills.

Ralph Wilson Finally Throws in the Towel (http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/2008/01/20/ralph_wilson_finally_throws_in_towel_fans_should_reciprocate.php)


Can Wilson Expect More from the Fans Than He Himself Delivers? (http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/2008/01/20/can_wilson_expect_more_from_the_fans_than_he_himself_delivers.php)

[LABillsFan]

:gag:

[LtFinFan66]

I liked them

[G. Host]

I liked them

I am surprised. You got more votes as die hard Bills fan than author.

[Goobylal]

Thanks for warning me to NOT click on those articles. I'd rather read Connor Byrne.

[LtFinFan66]

I am surprised. You got more votes as die hard Bills fan than author.That's because the people who voted for me are on crack

[Goobylal]

If ONLY the Bills had hired a great coach to just be a GM, and hired a former OL coach as their HC.

[jamze132]

Wys would find something to ***** about even if he was a Pats fan.

[YardRat]

Wys would find something to ***** about even if he was a Pats fan.

Their red zone defense is ranked pretty low.

[bflojohn]

I do NOT read his articles and if and when he post, it makes me wonder about the proverbial tree in the forest and the question about it making a sound when nobody is there when it falls?!?! Inconsequencial in any respect....

[R. Rich]

Mark has the tendency to really pour it on, but as far as the overall message, I can't say I disagree. Every year, the Bills plan to make major changes, fix this and that, and bring in _______ to right the ship. Every year since 1999, in terms of a playoff spot that would give the team a shot @ the championship, it doesn't matter one bit. He's obviously tired of it. So am I.

Not that I'm ready to "quit the Bills", but as I mentioned in another thread, cautious optimism is how I combat the "same old crap" offseason moves of management/coaching. I pray for them to work, and I'll be thrilled if they do. Until we see how the moves pan out, though, I'm not shaking any pom poms on behalf of the team.

[OpIv37]

I'm with Mark to a point. I can't give up on the Bills. Being a Bills fan is in my blood. I'm going to follow the off-season moves, and once the season starts, I'm going to watch every second of every game. And like all fans, I do so hoping that at some point they're going to get it right and win the Super Bowl.

But like Mark, I am losing faith that this team will EVER get it right, at least in the forseeable future. This team makes bad decisions, then they ride them out for too long because they don't want the turmoil that comes with change. The logic is mind-boggling- "We suck, but we're not going to fix it because we may suck during the transition."

Our FO is essentially the same as it was in the TD years, minus TD. How well did that work out? Our offense was ranked 30th this past year, and I forget the exact ranking but it was very poor in 2006 as well. Yet, we promote from within instead of looking for someone with fresh ideas.

What has ANYONE associated with this team done to deserve a promotion? 10 years of mediocrity- in most industries that never happens because you'll get fired long before that milestone is reached. Yet, the Bills PROMOTE the people responsible for it.

So, I agree with Mark when he says Ralph has thrown in the towel. And in a sick way, I envy him. He's smart enough and disconnected enough to stop caring. The rest of us are just setting ourselves up for more disappointment.

[LtBillsFan66]

Wys should throw in the towel then and stop posting here and stop writing articles.

[mybills]

I'm a loyal person, so I'm a loyal fan. You couldn't pay me to quit being a Bills fan.

[Wys Guy]

Do not read them if you are going to rant and ***** and make personal attacks against him. Any TOS violations will result in warning points, and the offending posts will be split out of this thread.

Two new articles by WysGuy. Interesting, as always. It appears Mark is divorcing the Bills.

OR, given the context of the aritcles, we could say that the Bills have divorced Wys Guy, or heck, even all fans. ;)

How much of this do they expect me to put up with? Seriously.

How much will you put up with? They obviously don't care about you, the fan.

[jmb1099]

Being a bills fan isn't something I can turn on and off.

[OpIv37]

Being a bills fan isn't something I can turn on and off.

I'm definitely with you on that, but that's the problem. Being a fan is based on emotion. If it were based on logic, we would have given up on this team a long time ago because it simply doesn't make sense for fans with no power to care more about the team than the ownership and management does.

It's extremely frustrating to sit back and watch something you care about go to **** when you have no ability to control or affect it. Mark's finally had enough. I'm not jumping off the bandwagon with him, but I completely understand how he feels.

[Goobylal]

So Wys, how many wins you predicting THIS year? I'll automatically take the over.

:lol:

[jmb1099]

I'm definitely with you on that, but that's the problem. Being a fan is based on emotion. If it were based on logic, we would have given up on this team a long time ago because it simply doesn't make sense for fans with no power to care more about the team than the ownership and management does.

It's extremely frustrating to sit back and watch something you care about go to **** when you have no ability to control or affect it. Mark's finally had enough. I'm not jumping off the bandwagon with him, but I completely understand how he feels.
I understand the feelings. Logically speaking I agree, no question. But being a fan is about emotion, nostalgia etc. If Wys is truly jumping off the band wagon that is his choice, but its not a choice I am willing or able to make.

[Oaf]

Thanks for warning me to NOT click on those articles. I'd rather read Connor Byrne.
You should try Brian Galliford on BuffaloRUmblings.com. He's considerably better in my opinion. Byrne seems to occasionally get clouded in his emotions when writing.

[jdbillsfan]

I'm with Mark to a point. I can't give up on the Bills. Being a Bills fan is in my blood. I'm going to follow the off-season moves, and once the season starts, I'm going to watch every second of every game. And like all fans, I do so hoping that at some point they're going to get it right and win the Super Bowl.

But like Mark, I am losing faith that this team will EVER get it right, at least in the forseeable future. This team makes bad decisions, then they ride them out for too long because they don't want the turmoil that comes with change. The logic is mind-boggling- "We suck, but we're not going to fix it because we may suck during the transition."

Our FO is essentially the same as it was in the TD years, minus TD. How well did that work out? Our offense was ranked 30th this past year, and I forget the exact ranking but it was very poor in 2006 as well. Yet, we promote from within instead of looking for someone with fresh ideas.

What has ANYONE associated with this team done to deserve a promotion? 10 years of mediocrity- in most industries that never happens because you'll get fired long before that milestone is reached. Yet, the Bills PROMOTE the people responsible for it.

So, I agree with Mark when he says Ralph has thrown in the towel. And in a sick way, I envy him. He's smart enough and disconnected enough to stop caring. The rest of us are just setting ourselves up for more disappointment.

You don't see improvement from '06 to '07? I'm sure Ralph gets frustrated. I actually think that he does want to win. I think that maybe some continuity would do this team a little good. The team is building through the draft, which takes a little longer. Jauron hasn't been here 10 years or however long, so that is what I am going off of.

Maybe Ralph sees some improvement in the team and thinks some continuity would be good for this team. Maybe people talked to Turk prior to the hiring and they were happy with his ideas. It does seem that he is happy with Trent as his QB. I am not sure anyone was ever sold on JP. That should help everyone. Ralph will want to give him some weapons.

[OpIv37]

You don't see improvement from '06 to '07? I'm sure Ralph gets frustrated. I actually think that he does want to win. I think that maybe some continuity would do this team a little good. The team is building through the draft, which takes a little longer. Jauron hasn't been here 10 years or however long, so that is what I am going off of.

Maybe Ralph sees some improvement in the team and thinks some continuity would be good for this team. Maybe people talked to Turk prior to the hiring and they were happy with his ideas. It does seem that he is happy with Trent as his QB. I am not sure anyone was ever sold on JP. That should help everyone. Ralph will want to give him some weapons.

2006: 7-9
2007: 7-9

we didn't improve in the only stat that matters.

[raphael120]

2006: 7-9
2007: 7-9

we didn't improve in the only stat that matters.
We got better in that we have young, cheaper players who suck rather than old players who suck.

[jamze132]

I think we can get some fat bastards on the D-line to stop the run, we can start to win more than 7 games a year.

[BillsFever21]

2006: 7-9
2007: 7-9

we didn't improve in the only stat that matters.

Neither did ANY of the stats. We were just as bad on offense AND defense if not worse.

There hasn't even been any improvement over the last few years. We are still a losing team that is far away from the playoffs. The scary part is that Mike Mularkey had the same record in his two years that Jauron has had in his two years.

This is just the nature of the beast for some people. The same people said we were showing improvements with Gregg Williams. Then when we hired Mularkey the same people said we were showing improvements with him. Now it's time for Dick Jauron. After he is fired you can fill in the blank with the next coach.

[Jan Reimers]

I understand the frustration and the disappointment. I am extremely unhappy with our performance over the last 8 years. I hate the mediocrity that has settled over this team. I am probably more pissed after losses than 99.9% of the people here.

But I'm a fan. Even though I've "given up" on the Bills several times over the years - for short periods of time - I always come back. I'm not an analyst, or a journalist, or a critic. I'm a fan (since day 1 of the franchise) pure and simple, so I have hope that our offseason moves will make us better, a willingness to give new coaches and players a chance, and optimism for the future.

What else is a loyal fan supposed to do?

[Crisis]

What else is a loyal fan supposed to do?

Write crappy articles and never enjoy the ups and downs that come from something as trivial as football.

[Jan Reimers]

Write crappy articles and never enjoy the ups and downs that come from something as trivial as football.
I don't really care if those who are so emotionally or psychologically tormented by the state of the Bills continue their negativity, or quit the Bills entirely, or find a more successful team to root for.

I just don't want to be called blind or stupid for choosing to be an optimistic fan, and enjoying the ride, albeit a bumpy one in recent years.

[Night Train]

Mark has the tendency to really pour it on.

Understatement of the year. Spending unlimited energies explaining to us that Ralph is the problem is equivalent to telling us it's dark at midnight. Like we don't know.

The NFL is becoming too expensive and Ralph is one of the first owners to show his hand,with a team in a challenged economic market. Our local price ceiling is basically maxed and the Toronto games show the very real financial difficulties to survive, long term.

We watch anyhow because we enjoy football. If they leave, I go over to Amherst and purchase UB tickets. Heck, I may do that anyhow if they keep raising prices above what I can afford. Let's keep it simple. The NFL is becoming a rich mans ticket and is marketed heavily towards the corporate $. (ex.Everyone lining up in Dallas for the 2009 new stadium $34,000-$38,000 club seats ?)

I love this team but understand the fine line between things I can't control and delusional obsession/control. The financial aspect of these team decisions will always be the bottom line, which has been going on for years. Before, it was an inconsistent Ralph. Now it's strictly financial survival.

Everything else plays off of this and is well understood.

In SPITE of all this, Go Bills !

[THATHURMANATOR]

Mark has the tendency to really pour it on, but as far as the overall message, I can't say I disagree. Every year, the Bills plan to make major changes, fix this and that, and bring in _______ to right the ship. Every year since 1999, in terms of a playoff spot that would give the team a shot @ the championship, it doesn't matter one bit. He's obviously tired of it. So am I.

Not that I'm ready to "quit the Bills", but as I mentioned in another thread, cautious optimism is how I combat the "same old crap" offseason moves of management/coaching. I pray for them to work, and I'll be thrilled if they do. Until we see how the moves pan out, though, I'm not shaking any pom poms on behalf of the team.
Yes I can agree with this. No one is happy with a crap team every year.

[Historian]

I loved the last line of the first piece.

[Jan Reimers]

It's easy to give up when times are tough. But I'm not about to quit on the Bills when they're down, despite all of the logical reasons to do so.

These frustrating times make the good times that much sweeter.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's easy to give up when times are tough. But I'm not about to quit on the Bills when they're down, despite all of the logical reasons to do so.

These frustrating times make the good times that much sweeter.
:bf1:
Only a Coward would jump ship now!

[mysticsoto]

:bf1:
Only a Coward would jump ship now!

I'll agree with this. If you're tired and want to jump ship, jump now. Nobody will miss you. But don't come back when we start winning either. If you go, you're not a real fan and you can't just come back when they are winning and pretend you are. We matched our 7-9 record of last year despite HUGE injury issues. With people coming back from injury, and hopefully the closing of some holes in our offense, we should be a better team next year. Injuries can't be controlled or predicted, but we had them and they cost us. We were down to 3rd string at both safety and LB at times. And even so, we kept most teams under their scoring averages. There are positive things to look at on our team, but we had too many holes last year to be able to cover them all up. The FO focused on the Oline and have us solid at RB. I look forward to FA and the draft to cover the remaining holes we have left on our team!

Until the Bills leave Buffalo, I'll always be a fan. GO BILLS!!!!

[Goobylal]

Neither did ANY of the stats. We were just as bad on offense AND defense if not worse.

There hasn't even been any improvement over the last few years. We are still a losing team that is far away from the playoffs. The scary part is that Mike Mularkey had the same record in his two years that Jauron has had in his two years.

This is just the nature of the beast for some people. The same people said we were showing improvements with Gregg Williams. Then when we hired Mularkey the same people said we were showing improvements with him. Now it's time for Dick Jauron. After he is fired you can fill in the blank with the next coach.
Hold on a second. Did people forget that the Bills missed player-games due to injury this year than any other team? That they had the same record as last year is amazing, in that light. I know people want "no excuses," but that's not dealing with reality.

And there's a big difference having the same record of 14-18 after 2 years and going 9-7 and then 5-11 and versus going 7-9 twice. Not to mention that since leaving, Mularkey has actually been demoted all the way to out of the league at present. That was an ultra-rapid fall from grace for him.

[Bert102176]

hell I only predicted 1 win all year so we did better then I thought I'm happy with that by the way damn Browns that was the 1 game I predicted us to win, would of if JP was in at QB

[mchurchfie]

I agree with a lot of his article. It is pretty clear that Ralph is running the full show and is keeping this organization barebones until he passes on.

[mchurchfie]

:bf1:
Only a Coward would jump ship now!
This isn't the Navy. We can be loyal fans and I am one myself but when you get very little loyalty back then maybe it is time to take a little bit of a stand on it. Ralph is shoving an inferior product down our throats. We are lightyears away from even having a good football staff in place let alone a good team. Frankly, I'm a little concerned. Of course, why should Ralph change anything, he is still selling out all of the games.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Does this mean he's going to stop? :pray:

[Ingtar33]

you want to know something frightening? our offense with the tribunal of craptitude that was Rob Johnson - Alex Van Pelt - Travis Brown at the helm, in 2001 (when we went 3-13) was higher ranked then the one we fielded last year.

ugh.

I can say this about the direction of the team.

We're better now then we were 2 years ago. we have more depth, and more upward potential.

[YardRat]

Go Bills or go away.

[Wys Guy]

We're better now then we were 2 years ago. we have more depth, and more upward potential.

Yeah, that's the key word stringing everyone along Ingtar, "potential."

Perhaps we should rename the team the Potential Bills.

It's easy to simply say "we're better than we were two years ago," but the stats disagree. Sure, we won 7 games vice 5 then, but four of those wins were over the Jets and Fins. Yet our wins then were much more quality wins and we played the Pats within 5 in one game too.

Either way, our offense is ranked worse in both yards and scoring and our D was ranked worse in yardage D this year.

Were you even aware that our offense scored fewer TDs than any other offense in the league and fewer red zone TDs too? Worse than every crappy team you can imagine.

So I suppose you can tap your heels together and keep repeating that, but what's the basis for it other than you or anyone else says so?

Not trying to be rude or anything, but talk is cheap my friend. That's all that we as fans have had; "next season, potential, hope, etc." amidst some of the most reprehensible and dumbest decisions that an organization can make.

I don't even think that the media takes our offseason moves seriously anymore.

[Goobylal]

Yeah, that's the key word stringing everyone along Ingtar, "potential."

Perhaps we should rename the team the Potential Bills.

It's easy to simply say "we're better than we were two years ago," but the stats disagree. Sure, we won 7 games vice 5 then, but four of those wins were over the Jets and Fins. Yet our wins then were much more quality wins and we played the Pats within 5 in one game too.

Either way, our offense is ranked worse in both yards and scoring and our D was ranked worse in yardage D this year.

Were you even aware that our offense scored fewer TDs than any other offense in the league and fewer red zone TDs too? Worse than every crappy team you can imagine.

So I suppose you can tap your heels together and keep repeating that, but what's the basis for it other than you or anyone else says so?

Not trying to be rude or anything, but talk is cheap my friend. That's all that we as fans have had; "next season, potential, hope, etc." amidst some of the most reprehensible and dumbest decisions that an organization can make.

I don't even think that the media takes our offseason moves seriously anymore.
Why have hope? I mean, it's not like the Bills have $32M in cap room, 10 draft picks with 7 (maybe 8) in the top-150, no key players hitting FA, and no players returning from injuries. Oh yeah, and younger players who should be getting better.

[mchurchfie]

Why have hope? I mean, it's not like the Bills have $32M in cap room, 10 draft picks with 7 (maybe 8) in the top-150, no key players hitting FA, and no players returning from injuries. Oh yeah, and younger players who should be getting better.
The problem is that next year we will probably still be fielding a team that is $30 mill under the cap while teams like the patsies continue to sign key players to get even stonger.

[BillsFever21]

Hold on a second. Did people forget that the Bills missed player-games due to injury this year than any other team? That they had the same record as last year is amazing, in that light. I know people want "no excuses," but that's not dealing with reality.

And there's a big difference having the same record of 14-18 after 2 years and going 9-7 and then 5-11 and versus going 7-9 twice. Not to mention that since leaving, Mularkey has actually been demoted all the way to out of the league at present. That was an ultra-rapid fall from grace for him.

I was not advocating that Mularkey was good for us. It was a slight against us right now. That shows how bad it is when we have the same record that Mularkey was able to take us too.

So you are satisfied with 7-9? What is the difference between 5 wins and 7 wins? It's still a losing teams. Would you rather win 10,10,7 and 5 wins over a 4 year period and make a run in the playoffs or just win 8 games every year? I guess it all depends on how bad you can handle the extremely horrible seasons. Myself I would rather have some good seasons followed by some horrible ones while the team was rebuilding itself instead of being a .500 team every year.

7 wins this year was not impressive with the division that we were in. When four of your wins are from the Jets and Dolphins then you were horrible the rest of the year. That makes you 3-9 outside of them scrubs. If anything we were not much better then the Jets. The only difference between us and the Jets having around the same record was a couple hard close 4th quarter wins against them. They win one of them and now they have 5 wins and we have 6 wins.

When the only games you won were by teams with a combined record of 31-81 with one of them coming against a team that barely was able to practice against after suffering a tragic loss to a close friend and teammate.

We can blame injuries all we want but not ANY of them guys that we lost would have made a difference in all of the blowouts we suffered against any of the halfway decent teams we got thrown around against. Most of the guys we lost for the season had no business playing on an NFL field let alone starting and many times the guy they were replaced with was BETTER then them anyway. If anything it acutally helped us in that regard.

Plus 7-9 is not very good in today's age of the NFL. That record still makes you the 11th worse team in the NFL with 21 other teams in better then you. It doesn't even put you in the top half of the league. I don't have the exact figures but it was something like 25 teams in the NFL won at least 6 games on the season. We only had a better record then like 7 other teams did. There were 6 other teams that also won 7 games.

Back in the day before parity being what it is now 7 wins would have put you in the top half of the league. Not today though. Considering we are only one of four teams that haven't sniffed a playoff bearth this century is pathetic and shows you how bad this franchise is to not even be able to sneak into the playoffs once.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I guess that Mark's a little upset that Ralph didn't hire him to be the Bills' GM....


BTW: Guess who is the OC of the 2008 NFC Champion New York Giants that will be playing in the Super Bowl in two weeks: none other than one Kevin Gilbride...!

[LifetimeBillsFan]

As far as giving up on the Bills is concerned, I've lived and continued to be a Bills fan through ONE win seasons and TWO win seasons--and was rewarded for doing so by seeing the team make four consecutive trips to the Super Bowl, coming within a couple of feet of winning the first time.

If I could do that and put up with all of the taunting that I got from Giants and Jet fans going to school and then living in the NYC area, I'm not quitting on the team as long as they are in Buffalo or I am alive!!!

I don't know whether the path that the team is on will lead to the Super Bowl. And, yeah, I have some serious concerns about whether the off-season moves that they have made with the front office and coaching staff will work or not. I happen to think that the 2008 season will be a critical one for the team.

But, I'm going to wait to see what happens first before I start to condemn any people or the organization. And, whatever happens, I'm not going to stop supporting the team--because I am a fan. A "fanatic", if you will. And, that's what being a fan(atic) means.

And, I don't believe that Mark/Wys (or many others) is going to quit being a Bills fan either, no matter what he says or writes in his articles--because whether he (and they) will admit it or not, he (and they) is a "fanatic": no matter what the team does or how good/bad they are he will moan, complain or find something to gripe about, but, no matter how disgusted he may be, he's still going to follow the team and want to see them win it all. I'll believe that he's going to quit being a Bills fan when he does it--and IMHO he can't and won't. And, that applies to the vast majority of Bills fans, no matter how disaffected they may be (they may not show up at games, etc., but they will continue to follow the team, even from afar!).

[BillsFever21]

Why have hope? I mean, it's not like the Bills have $32M in cap room, 10 draft picks with 7 (maybe 8) in the top-150, no key players hitting FA, and no players returning from injuries. Oh yeah, and younger players who should be getting better.

We have had millions of dollars in cap space for many years now. What good have we done for it? 32 million dollars sounds like a lot but in cash to cap dollars it isn't a hell of entire lot. Do you really think we would spend all of it anyways? Another thing to look is dozens of other teams also have 20+ million of cap space. They can still get more out of their 20 million then we can out of our 32 million because of cash to cap. Them other teams are also a lot more willing to use their money then Buffalo too.

As far as the draft picks go EVERY team has them. It's not as if the Bills are the only team who gets to draft players coming out from college. As far as the amount goes almost every team will have 5 out of the Top 150 or so anyway. We have one more 3rd and 5th round pick. Big deal. As far as drafting them goes we haven't done a great job with that or we would be better then we are right now.

We hear these same types of reasons every year. Our younger players will be better. We have a lot of cap room. We have another year in the system. We have draft picks. It's like the Bills are the only team in the league who will benefit from any of that and are the only ones with this luxury. 31 other teams improve themselves every year off of these same luxuries. The difference is that the good teams continue to improve themselves more.

Your excuses are also what teams like the Cardinals, Lions and the old Bengals have said for decades now. The sad part is we have officially lowered ourselves to their level.

Look at it this way. An expansion team from 5 years ago is further ahead and closer to being a playoff team then we are. AN EXPANSION team. They won 8 games in one of the toughest divisions in football. Had they been in our division they would've been at least a 10 win team. T

They also suffered injuries too. Not as many but more IMPORTANT ones. One of the best WR's in the league was not playing for them most of the season. Their starting QB was getting injured all the time and they had to use Sage Rosenfels.

The key to winning is as simple as good management and coaching. Ralph is unwilling to pay for that and that is why our team is sitting home every season. That is the most important part to football but Ralph won't pay for it.

[YardRat]

Ralph is unwilling to pay for that and that is why our team is sitting home every season. That is the most important part to football but Ralph won't pay for it.

Unwilling and unable to without bankrupting the franchise and ensuring it's move to another city are two different things.

Can't blame the guy for not spending big bucks on Mercedes', BMW's, and Lamborghini's when he's working on an income that is equivilant to flipping burgers at McD's.

Ask Browns' fans what happens when their owner overspends his income.<!-- / message -->

[Big M]

I'm concerned the Bills may leave in a few years for many of the factors mentioned above. I'll never stop rooting for them until that day.

I never expect the Bills to overspend for big name players but that doesn't mean we don't stand a chance. The current regime has been here 2 years and I'll start being more skeptical in 1 to 2 years, if improvement isn't seen.

[mybills]

It's easy to simply say "we're better than we were two years ago," but the stats disagree. Sure, we won 7 games vice 5 then, but four of those wins were over the Jets and Fins.

:cynic:
They were not decimated with injuries when they won 5.
They were decimated with injuries when they won 7.
That alone says a lot..no matter WHO they played OR beat.

[colin]

2006: 7-9
2007: 7-9

we didn't improve in the only stat that matters.

check the giants reg season record over the past 3 years, and they lost tiki over the past offseason and prior to that lost some linemen and arrington. strahan talked about quitting and everyone was bad mouthing the qb and the coach.

point is a lot of football is young guys getting better and playing hard, if we have that and some playmakers we can win plenty more games.

[Mad Bomber]

It appears Mark is divorcing the Bills.

Why not? They've been separated for years.

[Bill Brasky]

Mark has the tendency to really pour it on, but as far as the overall message, I can't say I disagree. Every year, the Bills plan to make major changes, fix this and that, and bring in _______ to right the ship. Every year since 1999, in terms of a playoff spot that would give the team a shot @ the championship, it doesn't matter one bit. He's obviously tired of it. So am I.

Not that I'm ready to "quit the Bills", but as I mentioned in another thread, cautious optimism is how I combat the "same old crap" offseason moves of management/coaching. I pray for them to work, and I'll be thrilled if they do. Until we see how the moves pan out, though, I'm not shaking any pom poms on behalf of the team.

:bf1:

i won't give up on the franchise, but man i'm sick of all of this crap. i can't say i disagree with him.

[THATHURMANATOR]

As far as giving up on the Bills is concerned, I've lived and continued to be a Bills fan through ONE win seasons and TWO win seasons--and was rewarded for doing so by seeing the team make four consecutive trips to the Super Bowl, coming within a couple of feet of winning the first time.

If I could do that and put up with all of the taunting that I got from Giants and Jet fans going to school and then living in the NYC area, I'm not quitting on the team as long as they are in Buffalo or I am alive!!!

I don't know whether the path that the team is on will lead to the Super Bowl. And, yeah, I have some serious concerns about whether the off-season moves that they have made with the front office and coaching staff will work or not. I happen to think that the 2008 season will be a critical one for the team.

But, I'm going to wait to see what happens first before I start to condemn any people or the organization. And, whatever happens, I'm not going to stop supporting the team--because I am a fan. A "fanatic", if you will. And, that's what being a fan(atic) means.

And, I don't believe that Mark/Wys (or many others) is going to quit being a Bills fan either, no matter what he says or writes in his articles--because whether he (and they) will admit it or not, he (and they) is a "fanatic": no matter what the team does or how good/bad they are he will moan, complain or find something to gripe about, but, no matter how disgusted he may be, he's still going to follow the team and want to see them win it all. I'll believe that he's going to quit being a Bills fan when he does it--and IMHO he can't and won't. And, that applies to the vast majority of Bills fans, no matter how disaffected they may be (they may not show up at games, etc., but they will continue to follow the team, even from afar!).
:bf1:

[Historian]

It's easy to give up when times are tough. But I'm not about to quit on the Bills when they're down, despite all of the logical reasons to do so.

I'm just tired of the same song and dance over and over and over....How many downs is a fan supposed to endure, Jan? Really?

Three winning seasons throughout the entire decade of the 70s. One playoff appearance from 1967-1979.

Back to back 2-14 seasons.

1-13, 2-12, 4-12, 3-13. This franchise isn't even .500 for it's history.

Meddling when he should stay out.

Being hands off when the team needed supervision.

Promoting office personnel to head coach.

Promoting hot dog vendors to manage the team.

Low-balling qualified talent, be it on the field or in the front office.

This behavior is by no means an accident. It's done on purpose... it's the way business is conducted at 1BD. Over the course of almost 50 years, it borderlines on embarrassing for this community.

Frankly, I'm tired of it. I have better things to do with my autumns...like donating my time and talents to youth football...as opposed to pining away for Ralph Wilson to change his ways.

He isn't going to.

And he doesn't need my money anyways.

:idunno:

[gr8slayer]

I'll never quit being a Bills fan, I'll just continue being a pissed off Bills fan.

But yeah, Wilson sucks.

[Goobylal]

We have had millions of dollars in cap space for many years now. What good have we done for it? 32 million dollars sounds like a lot but in cash to cap dollars it isn't a hell of entire lot. Do you really think we would spend all of it anyways? Another thing to look is dozens of other teams also have 20+ million of cap space. They can still get more out of their 20 million then we can out of our 32 million because of cash to cap. Them other teams are also a lot more willing to use their money then Buffalo too.
I don't expect the Bills to use all $32M in cap room, but I expect that about $20M in cap room (equivalent to the signings they made last year) will be used. That can be used to shore-up DT, LB, and #2 WR or TE.

As far as the draft picks go EVERY team has them. It's not as if the Bills are the only team who gets to draft players coming out from college. As far as the amount goes almost every team will have 5 out of the Top 150 or so anyway. We have one more 3rd and 5th round pick. Big deal. As far as drafting them goes we haven't done a great job with that or we would be better then we are right now.
The bigger point was NOT that the Bills HAVE draft picks, but they have 7, maybe 8 (if they get a 4th round comp pick like I'm expecting), in the top 150, and their selections are in the top-half of each round. With that many, they can trade up for players they want or stick with the picks and take a "more chances to get a good player" approach.


We hear these same types of reasons every year. Our younger players will be better. We have a lot of cap room. We have another year in the system. We have draft picks. It's like the Bills are the only team in the league who will benefit from any of that and are the only ones with this luxury. 31 other teams improve themselves every year off of these same luxuries. The difference is that the good teams continue to improve themselves more.
Call me crazy, but I'm expecting a rookie QB, who showed promise, to improve. Add some weapons around him and so much the better.

Your excuses are also what teams like the Cardinals, Lions and the old Bengals have said for decades now. The sad part is we have officially lowered ourselves to their level.
You call it an excuse, I call it an explanation. Injuries affected the Bills' season. So too did moving to a rookie QB.

Look at it this way. An expansion team from 5 years ago is further ahead and closer to being a playoff team then we are. AN EXPANSION team. They won 8 games in one of the toughest divisions in football. Had they been in our division they would've been at least a 10 win team.

They also suffered injuries too. Not as many but more IMPORTANT ones. One of the best WR's in the league was not playing for them most of the season. Their starting QB was getting injured all the time and they had to use Sage Rosenfels.
The issue of the Texans suffering "more important" injuries is debatable. And again, Trent is a rookie who started 9 games, and was more inexperienced than Rosenfels, who made 5 starts. And the Texans are no closer than the Bills and only had one more win because the Jags rested their starters in the season finale. Bully for them.

The key to winning is as simple as good management and coaching. Ralph is unwilling to pay for that and that is why our team is sitting home every season. That is the most important part to football but Ralph won't pay for it.
Who is this slam-dunk GM that Ralph should have brought in? Parcells? Reese who's been unemployed for years now? And no top coach wants to make a name for himself in Buffalo. Never has, never will. It's basically a matter of trying to take an unknown and see if he's got anything (which didn't work with Gregg and Mike) or a guy who had prior HC'ing experience who you're hoping has learned something.

[streetkings01]

Must....fight.....the.....urge......to attack......WysGuy!

[Oaf]

Gotta say, I'm starting to turn to the dark side. I actually liked and agreed with those articles. I feel sick, but it doesn't look like we're going anywhere till we get some radical changes. :ill:

[Buffatexas]

Why does it seem like the late 80's and early to mid 90's never comes up in these debates?

[TacklingDummy]

How were the Colts doing before they drafted Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Freeny, Sanders etc...?

The Bills have been struggling because they have been drafting many more busts rather than Super Stars.

[OpIv37]

check the giants reg season record over the past 3 years, and they lost tiki over the past offseason and prior to that lost some linemen and arrington. strahan talked about quitting and everyone was bad mouthing the qb and the coach.

point is a lot of football is young guys getting better and playing hard, if we have that and some playmakers we can win plenty more games.

1. you're assuming the FO is going to get playmakers. The only time they've ever done that is in 03 and it never got us anywhere.

2. the Giants are one example and they're the exception to the rule. For every team that does what the Giants did, 30 teams fail. It's an unlikely situation that occurred due to the perfect storm of positive factors, and it's an entirely different situation from the one Buffalo's in right now.

[gr8slayer]

How were the Colts doing before they drafted Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Freeny, Sanders etc...?

The Bills have been struggling because they have been drafting many more busts rather than Super Stars.
We have yet to draft a super star.

[gr8slayer]

Why does it seem like the late 80's and early to mid 90's never comes up in these debates?
Because those were miserable years losing in Super Bowls four strait years?

[casdhf]

See sig

[Mr. Pink]

How were the Colts doing before they drafted Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Freeny, Sanders etc...?

The Bills have been struggling because they have been drafting many more busts rather than Super Stars.

What were they doing?

They went to the AFC championship game against Pittsburgh, the year O'Donnell gift wrapped the MVP to Larry Brown. In fact, it can be argued that Indy shoulda been in that SB on a hail mary pass that I still think was caught as time expired.

Harbaugh-Faulk-Dawkins-Dilger-Aaron Bailey were their main offensive weapons then.

[gr8slayer]

See sig
That's typical, I have multiple points for no good reason and I bet I know who the mod is that you're referring to in your sig :up:

[NC-BILLS44]

I don't care to read any of the long winded trash in the articles.

[Wys Guy]

I don't care to read any of the long winded trash in the articles.

Of course not 44. That would entail thinking for a few minutes and some reading comprehension and actually stepping out of your shell of your tinkerbell snowglobe.

I fully understand.

BTW, am I somehow responsible for how the Bills play and what they have amassed as a team?

I continue to detect animosity at me for expecting more from my team.

Odd. This, coming from people that lambast my criticism of losing and playing poor football. Hmmm!

Yet, I'm the problem and the "non fan."

Got it.

BTW, there probably are some nice meds that will help you out. Legal ones too.

[Wys Guy]

See sig

You quoted this cas?

"I'm just letting you know that you have been given 2 points for telling Wys AKA Mark to kill himself."

If so, surprising.

I'll get right on that however. ;)

[Wys Guy]

Go Bills or go away.

Is that your message to those that run this team, or what?

I think they should change the logo from the Buffalo to a fan getting bent over a car trunk with the proverbial "Bubba" standing behind him grasping at his belt buckle as he prepares to loosen it!

[Jan Reimers]

Of course not 44. That would entail thinking for a few minutes and some reading comprehension and actually stepping out of your shell of your tinkerbell snowglobe.

I fully understand.

BTW, am I somehow responsible for how the Bills play and what they have amassed as a team?

I continue to detect animosity at me for expecting more from my team.

Odd. This, coming from people that lambast my criticism of losing and playing poor football. Hmmm!

Yet, I'm the problem and the "non fan."

Geez, Mark, do you have to insult people who don't particularly care for your long, negative articles? I've PMed back and forth with NC-Bills44 and he's a bright guy and a nice guy.

Some of us simply like being fans, and actually find it enjoyable.

[Wys Guy]

Geez, Mark, do you have to insult people who don't particularly care for your long, negative articles? I've PMed back and forth with NC-Bills44 and he's a bright guy and a nice guy.

Some of us simply like being fans, and actually find it enjoyable.

Where's your defense of me Jan for being able to come here and express an opinion in an open public forum?

I don't care if he reads or not, and I'm sure he's a great guy/gal/whatever, but it gets a little old hearing people ask me questions that are well thought out in "long, negative articles" that receive accolades from people in the business, in educational institutions, and pretty much only draw criticism from those that "don't read them."

It gets a little old dealing with people that think they know it all but are too damned lazy to read a simple piece that takes maybe 5 minutes to get through and who then ask me to repost it all here for them personally.

Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks, they are well written, extremely well substantiated and researched pieces that provide more information in one single article, of a factual nature, than most regional newspapers put out in a week's worth of "Bills commentary" replete with enough hot air up the team's colon to fill a zepellin.

If he wants to tell me to Go Bills or go away then I'm sure he's enough of a big boy to be challenged as a result of it. If his "feelings are hurt" then I'm sure he can send me an e-mail and we can "patch things up."

It's funny how when I simply react to something with a fraction of the venom typically spewed at me, with people telling me "they like me in person" but behave like fatal enemies here, I get called out.

Honestly, the feedback that I get on my pieces outside of here is utterly glaring, even by people that don't agree with it all! Categorically.

I'm tellin' ya, this little fan community you have here is about as far from reality as it gets.

It truly is amusing, in the most literal sense of the word and it just keeps getting better.

[shelby]

That is exactly why i love this place so much!
:love:

:gobills:

[Wys Guy]

In the meantime, how many here even have the patience to talk the nuts and bolts of football without criticism of their team being the equivalent of an illegal immigrant kicking their door down and threatening to rape their wife and kill their kids.

I've never seen such emotional imbalance as I have here over the years. Again, amusing.

[Wys Guy]

That is exactly why i love this place so much!
:love:

:gobills:

LMAO

I guess it's a love/hate thing, eh.

LOL

[shelby]

Well, i am unmedicated.
:ontome:

[Wys Guy]

Well, i am unmedicated.
:ontome:

Don't say that too loudly!

;)

[Jan Reimers]

In the meantime, how many here even have the patience to talk the nuts and bolts of football without criticism of their team being the equivalent of an illegal immigrant kicking their door down and threatening to rape their wife and kill their kids.

I've never seen such emotional imbalance as I have here over the years. Again, amusing.
As I've said, you've turned negativity into a delightfully funny comedic form.

And you have the right to any opinion you want to express. I just don't think you should crap all over those that have views different from yours.

[Wys Guy]

As I've said, you've turned negativity into a delightfully funny comedic form.

And you have the right to any opinion you want to express. I just don't think you should crap all over those that have views different from yours.

In order:

Thank you! Whether you meant it as a compliment or not, I take that as one.

Second, you surely jest?

Talk about "crapping all over those that have views different from mine," you must be kidding here?

This, coming from the forum of forums wherein I can't come in and say "hi" without a dozen people taking issue.

Consider comedy as a sideline Jan!

This place is king of crapping all over those that don't conform to the mindless conformed.

[R. Rich]

And you have the right to any opinion you want to express. I just don't think you should crap all over those that have views different from yours.

That's the main reason I stop by this putrid place.

[NC-BILLS44]

Of course not 44. That would entail thinking for a few minutes and some reading comprehension and actually stepping out of your shell of your tinkerbell snowglobe.

I fully understand.

BTW, am I somehow responsible for how the Bills play and what they have amassed as a team?

I continue to detect animosity at me for expecting more from my team.

Odd. This, coming from people that lambast my criticism of losing and playing poor football. Hmmm!

Yet, I'm the problem and the "non fan."

Got it.

BTW, there probably are some nice meds that will help you out. Legal ones too.

I do respect your opinions regarding the Bills and understand your frustration, but I've spent too much time reading the constant negativity. I do not blame you for the Bills decline; that would go to Mr. Wilson (Man in Charge). I too am not thrilled with how things are going in Buffalo, but I would rather not stay in a negative, pessimistic mood all the time.

I can pick myself up and it doesn't require medication, legal or not. I'm high on life and don't need stimulants, but thanks for your concern.

[Wys Guy]

I do respect your opinions regarding the Bills and understand your frustration, but I've spent too much time reading the constant negativity. I do not blame you for the Bills decline; that would go to Mr. Wilson (Man in Charge). I too am not thrilled with how things are going in Buffalo, but I would rather not stay in a negative, pessimistic mood all the time.

I can pick myself up and it doesn't require medication, legal or not. I'm high on life and don't need stimulants, but thanks for your concern.

I've spent too much time viewing the negativity!

We haven't had a football product worth viewing conistently since the '90s.

I don't want to stay in a negative mood either, but going to games, or even viewing them when it's not convenient puts me in them. I'm much happeir just watching good football generically since the Bills haven't, didn't, and won't provide it on Wilson's watch, which you seem to agree with.

Again, not may fault. But allow me to ask you, do you consider it a 'good mood' when those that criticize me for "being too negative" come here either during games or after them, and sit here and ***** up a hurricane over how the Bills are playing, on a regular basis, as a positive, good mood then?

I don't get it! I'm not nearly as critical, at least not in the way it's expressed, as some people here are, the same ones that complain about me being to negative, on game days.

How do you reconcile that other than either deep rooted emotional issues or at minimum a glaring lack of consistency in those people in their expressions of me vice their own profanity laden ***** sessions that go on right here, often for hours?

[shelby]

It's obviously an indication of mental instability.

[Wys Guy]

I'm open to suggestions...

:snicker:

[mybills]

I do respect your opinions regarding the Bills and understand your frustration, but I've spent too much time reading the constant negativity. I do not blame you for the Bills decline; that would go to Mr. Wilson (Man in Charge). I too am not thrilled with how things are going in Buffalo, but I would rather not stay in a negative, pessimistic mood all the time.

I can pick myself up and it doesn't require medication, legal or not. I'm high on life and don't need stimulants, but thanks for your concern.
:10: :bf1: