How bad is it?? One more off-season might not be enough.

[HHURRICANE]

Well I've watched all of the playoff games and I can't see a single game where the Bills would have won, even against the losers.

I'm not trying to bash the Bills but I'm really concerned.

First year players are not going to get us over the hump so 10 draft picks, although nice, is not getting us into the playoffs.

We are in desperate need of not one, but two DTs. We are are in derparate need of not one, but two WRs. We are are in desparate need of not one, but two DEs.

One big WR, one additional DT, and one additional DE, even if standouts, don't get us over the hump.

It already doesn't look good.

[raphael120]

Well I've watched all of the playoff games and I can't see a single game where the Bills would have won, even against the losers.

I'm not trying to bash the Bills but I'm really concerned.

First year players are not going to get us over the hump so 10 draft picks, although nice, is not getting us into the playoffs.

We are in desperate need of not one, but two DTs. We are are in derparate need of not one, but two WRs. We are are in desparate need of not one, but two DEs.

One big WR, one additional DT, and one additional DE, even if standouts, don't get us over the hump.

It already doesn't look good.

W-w-w-wait!? This isn't a 2, or 3 year plan? It's at least a 4 year plan?!

In Marv we trust!!!!!!!!!!

[raphael120]

Sad thing is, we are supposed to have 2 solid drafts and 2 FA classes that actually HELP the team more than hurt, and we've seen that the only thing we really got out of the past 2 seasons is a franchise RB, a questionable talent at QB, 2 overpaid DE's, a waste of 2 picks to move into the first round for McCargo, a reach at #8 overall for an average but not great safety, and a promising MLB, and an o-line that gives good pass protections but is too soft to support the running game.

So since Donahoe got fired, the only area we improved on is the oline, while we regressed everywhere else. We've had two years, and the only players on our team that could start on any other team in the league is Evans, Peters, and Lynch.

3. Evans is not a gamechanger and neither is Lynch. 2 seasons and no stars aquired.

This is the last year for Jauron, time is running out for this experiment, Ralph, and Buffalo being home to the Bills.

[LABillsFan]

Well I've watched all of the playoff games and I can't see a single game where the Bills would have won, even against the losers.

I'm not trying to bash the Bills but I'm really concerned.

First year players are not going to get us over the hump so 10 draft picks, although nice, is not getting us into the playoffs.

We are in desperate need of not one, but two DTs. We are are in derparate need of not one, but two WRs. We are are in desparate need of not one, but two DEs.

One big WR, one additional DT, and one additional DE, even if standouts, don't get us over the hump.

It already doesn't look good.

It doesn't look like the Bills will win 11 or more games granted, but I can see them winning 9-10 and a true shot at the playoffs. I am not one to generally prognosticate but I like the direction, I just hope they start the car.

[streetkings01]

It doesn't look like the Bills will win 11 or more games granted, but I can see them winning 9-10 and a true shot at the playoffs. I am not one to generally prognosticate but I like the direction, I just hope they start the car.And give it a tune up and fill it up with some gas too!

[ParanoidAndroid]

We have very little veteran talent. Most of our talent is found in 1st and 2nd year players with the exception of Crowell and Evans. It shows. However, the future looks much more promising than it has for a decade.

[gr8slayer]

Well I've watched all of the playoff games and I can't see a single game where the Bills would have won, even against the losers.

I'm not trying to bash the Bills but I'm really concerned.

First year players are not going to get us over the hump so 10 draft picks, although nice, is not getting us into the playoffs.

We are in desperate need of not one, but two DTs. We are are in derparate need of not one, but two WRs. We are are in desparate need of not one, but two DEs.

One big WR, one additional DT, and one additional DE, even if standouts, don't get us over the hump.

It already doesn't look good.
I don't care about getting to the play-offs, I want to Super Bowl Ring.

We need a:
- RG = I still think that Merz is the best thing we have going for us there.

- Franchise QB = Maybe it's Edwards, maybe it's not, he still has two more years in my book so I'll hold off judgment.

- CB = I'm a huge Greer fan (always have been) but I don't trust McGee.

- Difference maker at Safety = Whitner just doesn't look like he's going to live up to the #8 pick, I'll give him another year....

- LB that strikes fear into people = Crowell is good but he's not a top tier player, move Posluzny to OLB and get a beast at MLB.

- DT for the love of god = There's nobody on our DL that I would be sad to see go and it wouldn't be hard to upgrade.

- Owner = ............................. Nevermind............

[BillsFever21]

Look at them teams in the playoffs this year. Even the Chargers and Jaguars who can't make the SB. Now look at our team and how far away we are from any of them teams.

At the very least if everything went perfect we MAY be able to make the 1st round of the playoffs. Even that is far away. That's about where the Steelers are at and look at them.

All you have to do is look at teams like the Chargers, Giants and Packers and you can see how bad the management is on this team. All of them guys were drafting in the Top 5 within a few years ago and they all made the Conference Championship games this year.

When Marv started two years ago everyone said it will be a 2 year building project and then in year 3 we will make our run. This time has now come and now it's another two years. This is always the same old crap at OBD and it always will be. The best run we have a chance for is maybe losing a WC berth in a given season but this team will never sniff a Conference Championship game let alone a SB.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

...All you have to do is look at teams like the Chargers, Giants and Packers and you can see how bad the management is on this team. All of them guys were drafting in the Top 5 withing a few years ago and they all made the Conference Championship games this year.

The Bills would have been better off if they had collapsed completely and been able to pick in the Top 5, but, when that did happen, the sure-fire pick that they took to anchor their offensive line (and every scout had M.Williams highly rated and praised the pick by the Bills) turned out to be a bust and it hasn't happened since.

Unlike the Jets and Dolphins, as well as the teams that you cited, the Bills have been winning just enough games to keep them not only just at the fringe of the top talent pool (except when they picked Whitner--who I think will become more of a playmaker in the secondary when he can stop having to play LB most of the time) in each year's draft, but also having to play 3rd place schedules every year (against teams just bad enough that they have been able to beat a handful of them).

All three of the playoff teams that you have cited have also been able to get decent or better play from the QB position more consistently than the Bills. It doesn't matter how much talent you have or bring in through free agency if you don't get consistent play from the QB position. Good QB play doesn't guarantee that a team will make the playoffs (I could cite many examples of this), but it is essential to success: even Baltimore and Tampa Bay, who won their titles based mostly on their defenses, got consistent, error-free--if unspectacular--play from their QBs when they won). The fact that JP Losman was unable to develop to the point where he could give them that has helped to set the Bills back as well as the failings of many of T.Donahoe's other draft picks. We all have to hope that the coaches are right and that T.Edwards can finally provide the solution to this problem.

[BillsFever21]

The Bills would have been better off if they had collapsed completely and been able to pick in the Top 5, but, when that did happen, the sure-fire pick that they took to anchor their offensive line (and every scout had M.Williams highly rated and praised the pick by the Bills) turned out to be a bust and it hasn't happened since.

Unlike the Jets and Dolphins, as well as the teams that you cited, the Bills have been winning just enough games to keep them not only just at the fringe of the top talent pool (except when they picked Whitner--who I think will become more of a playmaker in the secondary when he can stop having to play LB most of the time) in each year's draft, but also having to play 3rd place schedules every year (against teams just bad enough that they have been able to beat a handful of them).

All three of the playoff teams that you have cited have also been able to get decent or better play from the QB position more consistently than the Bills. It doesn't matter how much talent you have or bring in through free agency if you don't get consistent play from the QB position. Good QB play doesn't guarantee that a team will make the playoffs (I could cite many examples of this), but it is essential to success: even Baltimore and Tampa Bay, who won their titles based mostly on their defenses, got consistent, error-free--if unspectacular--play from their QBs when they won). The fact that JP Losman was unable to develop to the point where he could give them that has helped to set the Bills back as well as the failings of many of T.Donahoe's other draft picks. We all have to hope that the coaches are right and that T.Edwards can finally provide the solution to this problem.

There are many teams that draft in the Top 5 every year and they do not turn it around and many teams that don't draft in the Top 5 that do turn it around.

Not every one of them Top 5 picks are going to be good players. That is not any excuse for the state of our franchise over the last decade.

You can't pin the QB as the only reason for them teams being good. Up until a few games ago Eli Manning has been horrible but they were still able to make the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. Phillip Rivers wasn't very good this year and the Chargers made the playoffs.

A great QB may be able to get you into an occasional playoff bearth but they are not going to be the reason why you become a team like the ones mentioned above. It takes a hell of a lot more then that. Enough that the Bills are unable to accomplish.

Do you think Eli Manning is the reason for the Giants? How about Rivers for the Chargers? You put both of them guys in Buffalo for the last 4 years and we still are not a playoff team let alone as good as them. Do you think AJ Hawk made that much of a difference that the Packers would not be where they are this quickly without him? All them teams only drafted in the Top 5 once.

It takes a combination of a good core of players and coaching to get to that level. Something that Buffalo hasn't had either of in years(and for most of their existence for that matter). Not any one player is going to take you to the SB or conference championship.

So you feel that if Mike Williams wouldn't have turned out to be a bust then our team would be a totally different team right now? Not a chance. We would still be where we are at today. Also if you want to count the emergence of Jason Peters that we got from nowhere then that offsets any contributions that Williams would have made IF he wasn't a bust.

It takes great coaching and many good moves to build a team. The Buffalo Bills are just anable to do that with their current ownership and management. There are great players being drafted throughout the entire 1st and 2nd rounds every year. Many of them turn out much better then the Top 5 draft picks from that draft. The Bills are just unable to draft, develop and build a good team. The main reason for that has been because of very poor coaching and direction for the team. All of that comes back to the ownership and management too. The reason for being unable to draft, develop and build a good team is because of the things listed above. Great ownership hires the right management staff. The management staff drafts/signs the players andhires the coaches. The coaches develop the players. It all starts up top.

[colin]

i think this offseason tells us that qb play and playmakers are what will win championships.

we need a big time large passing threat or two, and a cb and playmaker in the front 7. we need a DT, but a decent one will do if we get a powerhouse OLB.

SD dallas and indy are teams of allstars that fell off because of a couple of injuries and sloppy qb play. if we are disciplined like we have been but also add some play makers we can play with any playoff team.

we had the giants down 14 nothing before losing our best player and we had a lead into the 3rd quarter. this is with an all rook backfield 15 injuries and smurfs at wideout.

we need to go out and get guys, but they are there and we have a good shot.

[bigbub2352]

Well I've watched all of the playoff games and I can't see a single game where the Bills would have won, even against the losers.

I'm not trying to bash the Bills but I'm really concerned.

First year players are not going to get us over the hump so 10 draft picks, although nice, is not getting us into the playoffs.

We are in desperate need of not one, but two DTs. We are are in derparate need of not one, but two WRs. We are are in desparate need of not one, but two DEs.

One big WR, one additional DT, and one additional DE, even if standouts, don't get us over the hump.

It already doesn't look good.

This is a critical year for the FO, not like the other 8 havent been, but we actually are in better shape than we have been in the last few years, being in the top 5 in cap room, we should not have to depend on the draft to fill all holes
we can sign a vet at WR (bryant johnson, DJ hackett, Jerry Porter, Ernest Wilford) and draft one on day 1, preferably in the 1st or 2nd round

We can sign a vet DT and draft one on Day 1, hopefully opposite the WR pick on day 1

We can draft a TE in the 3rd round or 2nd round depending on what we already took and who is avaiable and also go out and throw some money at a TE like LJ SMith

Lock up Evans, and Get a LBer in the DRaft on day one preferably with the other 3rd round selection or throw money at Karlos Dansby from ARZ who would be a Beast here and would not ask for Briggs money

and we still got day 2 of the Draft to get a DE, CB, C, G depth and still got 2 7s

we r in better shape that everyone thinks
as for Whitner he is 22 yrs old and still learning, did u hear about Bob Sanders till a year ago, he is 26 and it took him 3 yrs in that system to become outstanding, same with others, we drafted him and Youboty as JR out of OSU they are still developing, plus u r gettin Simpson who is more ballhawking at FS, and Poz back in the middle that will improve us, as well as THomas manning the Nickel spot, we are better than we think in the secondary, young and fast teams didnt throw all over us they ran all over us which set up the pass, DT is most critical postion for this offseason on D, and then LBer,

I think we should make great strides this offseason
FO just has to committ

[THATHURMANATOR]

The Bills being a playoff team next year rests solely on Trent Edwards. If he is able to produce we have a shot. If not we are in major trouble. I for one am nervous.

[gr8slayer]

The Bills being a playoff team next year rests solely on Trent Edwards. If he is able to produce we have a shot. If not we are in major trouble. I for one am nervous.
I know one thing for sure, we better use more play-action and take more shots down the field.

[Mahdi]

Well I've watched all of the playoff games and I can't see a single game where the Bills would have won, even against the losers.

I'm not trying to bash the Bills but I'm really concerned.

First year players are not going to get us over the hump so 10 draft picks, although nice, is not getting us into the playoffs.

We are in desperate need of not one, but two DTs. We are are in derparate need of not one, but two WRs. We are are in desparate need of not one, but two DEs.

One big WR, one additional DT, and one additional DE, even if standouts, don't get us over the hump.

It already doesn't look good.
I dont agree. We dont need two more DTs, WRs, and DEs.

We need 1 more DE to replace Kelsay. If we can get good production from that position it will open things up for the rest of our DL.

If we can get another talented DE we might be ok with McCargo who has really stepped up, Tripplett and Williams. The addition of Poz back into the line-up will help our run D also, as well as Ko Simpson or George Wilson.

As for WR we dont need 2 more we need 1. Evans is our burner, Reed and Parrish are our slot guys. All we need is a big play WR on the other side that brings size and redzone abilities.

The notion that we have to bring in guys who will come in and produce big things is not right IMO. All we need are guys that can fill certain roles on our team that we currently dont have right now.

We need another threat at DE, which I believe a 1st rounder can provide, more of a presence at MLB which we already have, and someone who can catch a jump-ball or make the big 3rd down catch when we need it. A TE that can catch would be nice also.

Considering what is available in this draft and in FA i think all our needs can be covered quite easily.

an example of that: Sign Ernest Wilford and Corey Williams.

Draft: Vernon Gholston, Dustin Keller, Ali Highsmith with the first 3 picks.

IMO that would put this team in position to compete with most teams in the league.

[Jan Reimers]

I agree, Mahdi. I think we're no more than 4 or 5 players away, assuming our injured guys come back strong. We could easily get them with a couple of good FA signings and a judicious draft, where we have 4 picks among the top 70 something players.

I think the key is getting players in FA at positions that generally require the most experience, and rookies at positions where guys often play well right away.

[Jan Reimers]

. . . Or maybe the key, given our rather tight fisted approach, is getting any quality free agents at all.

[Historian]

On thing that the playoff have showed me, is that you need to be on the top of your game just to make a low wild card spot.

Remember the good old days? (like when we used to win consistantly)

Teams used to sneak in with 8-8 records, some even as bad as 7-9?

Not so today. The top teams are out for blood. 10-6 doesn't even guarantee you get in anymore. The competition is just that tough.

[imbondz]

i'm holding out for a St. Louis Rams 1998-1999-2000 season turnaround!

All things are possible.

[gr8slayer]

i'm holding out for a St. Louis Rams 1998-1999-2000 season turnaround!

All things are possible.
I've been holding off for something like that for damn near a decade lol.

[Oaf]

I agree with BillsFever. I'm tired of this wait and see process with the last 3 coaches here. Until we get some considerable change at the top, I just don't see us becoming an actual contender rather than a 5-7 win pretender always hoping to "win out and make the 6th seed, just once."

[HHURRICANE]

[quote=raphael120]Sad thing is, we are supposed to have 2 solid drafts and 2 FA classes that actually HELP the team more than hurt, and we've seen that the only thing we really got out of the past 2 seasons is a franchise RB, a questionable talent at QB, 2 overpaid DE's, a waste of 2 picks to move into the first round for McCargo, a reach at #8 overall for an average but not great safety, and a promising MLB, and an o-line that gives good pass protections but is too soft to support the running game.
[quote]

Great post!!

[patmoran2006]

. . . Or maybe the key, given our rather tight fisted approach, is getting any quality free agents at all.
if you're looking to LEGITMIATELY qualify for the playoffs next season as your goal, then there absolutely cannot be any tight-fisted approach to FA.

Too many more rookies starting/playing/contributing on a team that is already THIS young is a sure-fire formula for more rebuilding.

If you look at our 2006 draft, two years later- whitner is still only decent at best, McCargo barely played (though I do like him) and Youboty is nearly a lost cause.

They MUST find a WR AND a TE that come in and make this offense better and more dangerous from the FIRST day of training camp.

Defenisvely, I think they need a LB who's immediately better than Ellison (shouldn't be that hard to do). I actually am fond of McCargo enough that I'd have no problem if we didnt sign a DT and drafted one early.

THe real problem is at DE.. Our guys are collectively putrid against the run, and thanks to Marv/Overdorf there is zero chance Kelsay is going anywhere. Best hope is to draft a guy in round 2 or 3 and hope he develops into a good player. I'm positive we wont spend anything significant via FA here.

[HHURRICANE]

I dont agree. We dont need two more DTs, WRs, and DEs.



Every team that is playing well in the playoffs has mutliple talent at key positions.

Why do people always do this? Everybody said if McCargo played well this year that our run D would be much improved.

Guess what? He did play well and we still sucked against the run.

Adding 3 players to this team doesn't get us in the playoffs. PERIOD.

People will get hurt next year, like they do every year, and the more depth you have the better.

[Mahdi]

Every team that is playing well in the playoffs has mutliple talent at key positions.

Why do people always do this? Everybody said if McCargo played well this year that our run D would be much improved.

Guess what? He did play well and we still sucked against the run.

Adding 3 players to this team doesn't get us in the playoffs. PERIOD.

People will get hurt next year, like they do every year, and the more depth you have the better.
McCargo did play well this year and it certainly wasnt a waste to move up for him... The run D was affected in a big way by the loss of Poz.

And no 3 players is not enough but 3 players on D is enough. Our pass rush lacks because we are weak at LDE. One more DE would give us what we are missing. Adding a DT that is better at rushing the passer and can also stuff the run like Corey Williams would also be a big help. Add Poz to that and our defense would be complete. That would give a good 4 man rotation at DE, a good 4 man rotation at DT, a solid LB corps and with the emergence of Greer and the return of Ko and Wilson we will be fine in the secondary as well. Not to mention Youboty who looks like he might come around and addm more depth.

Then for the offense you need another WR and a TE and were in business.

Draft: #1: DE , #2:TE, #3:WR

FA: DT Corey Williams, WR Ernest Wilford or Bryant Johnson.

If we get that done,,,, we become contenders.

[HHURRICANE]

And no 3 players is not enough but 3 players on D is enough. Our pass rush lacks because we are weak at LDE. One more DE would give us what we are missing. Adding a DT that is better at rushing the passer and can also stuff the run like Corey Williams would also be a big help. Add Poz to that and our defense would be complete. That would give a good 4 man rotation at DE, a good 4 man rotation at DT, a solid LB corps and with the emergence of Greer and the return of Ko and Wilson we will be fine in the secondary as well.

3 players is no where near enough on D. You saw what happened when Poz left so what happens if he gets hurt again? You keep forgetting who's behind Poz, Crowell, and DiGiorgia. Nothing.

Your DE rotation is currnetly down to 3 guys Denney, Kelsay, and Schobel. That doesn't scare you???

Tripplett and Williams are not even close to adequate when they are on the field so even if McCargo and some star are line 1 you still need more than one DT just to improve beyond Tripplett.

[yordad]

Well I've watched all of the playoff games and I can't see a single game where the Bills would have won, even against the losers.

I'm not trying to bash the Bills but I'm really concerned.

First year players are not going to get us over the hump so 10 draft picks, although nice, is not getting us into the playoffs.

We are in desperate need of not one, but two DTs. We are are in derparate need of not one, but two WRs. We are are in desparate need of not one, but two DEs.

One big WR, one additional DT, and one additional DE, even if standouts, don't get us over the hump.

It already doesn't look good.Well, I think you are wrong. Very wrong. But, everyone has an opinion.

[Mahdi]

Did you read my entire post? I said we need another LDE in the draft to upgrade Kelsay and give us a better 4 man rotation.

3 players is enough.... 1 DE, 1DT, and the return of POz...

Yeah putting a starter behind every starter would be ideal but there is a cap that doesnt allow that. Poz coming back and moving Dig to the outside will give us a good LB corps.

[Wys Guy]

i'm holding out for a St. Louis Rams 1998-1999-2000 season turnaround!

All things are possible.

But not all things are probable.

Take the overstated mantra "on any given Sunday [any team can beat any other team]"

True. But the odds of say the Niners beating the Pats must be 1,000 to 1.

"Possible" is one thing. It's possible for you to win the next Power Ball. Is it probable?

It's possible for you to become a member of the Bills' organization/front office. Is it probable?

It's possible for you to come up with the next patent that will make millions. Is it probable?

In order to see what's going on your must first ask yourself what it is that you're placing your hope in. Most people here see a signing or a promotion in the coaching staff or front office, and even on the roster, and just assume "new name, automatic improvement," and why? Simply because others with dubious pasts that they choose to believe told them so.

What most people here do not do, and frankly what our own FO doesn't do, is to take at look at the backgrounds and pasts of hose hirees or promotees or even players, and ask themselves what they did elsewhere or whether there was any record of personal success.

It's more important for this organization to focus on emotional reasons for their hiring and on relationships rather than competence.

I mean consider for more than the time it takes to read a headline the Schonert promotion. He's said to "have earned it." Really, ... why?

As I see it Losman got worse from last year to this one, which should be on Schonert with a supposedly improved line, which is written about in another thread started today. Then Edwards, Levy and Jauron's pick, and perhaps even Schonert's assuming that the QB coach would actually be consulted regarding a QB taken on, a novel thought at OBD I realize, performs even worse than JP did.

And for that he's qualified to step up into the next position?

Oh, his past, yeah, I nearly forgot. Perhaps it was coaching his Saints QBs to 15 TDs and 24 INTs in '05 and Aaron Brooks to 13/17. Was that it?

Or perhaps it was his having coached the Giants' QBs to 16 TDs and 20 INTs and Kerry Collins to 13/16 in '03. Was that it?

Or was it the Panthers' QBs in '01 that he led to 12 TDs and 22 INTs or Weinke's 11/19 that gets your juices flowing over his competence?

I mean has any of you even looked at his recent past on this and considered why everyone is stumbling over themselves to get to a microphone or write a piece on "how he's due" or how things will now change with him running the show?

I mean if you owned a business, is this type of performance what you would look for in someone to promote?

And what about '02 and '04? What was he doing then? Why doesn't the Bills website have anything about his employment during those seasons?

My guess is because he got fired for doing such great work in those seasons and no one would hire him immediately. While that might explain why the Bills hired him it shouldn't say much.

Other than his initial stint in Tampa from '92 to '95 in which he produced the following team totals as QB Coach:

'95: 5 TDs/20 INTs
'94: 17/16
'93: 19/25
'92: 17/20

...with two different starting QBs.

Other than in his stint in Buffalo coaching Rob Johnson and Doug Flutie, he's had no success. And we all know that Flutie did what he wanted to and really wasn't coached into what he did well, namely scramble as his passing really was never very good as a pocket type NFL passer.

I mean seriously, have any of you hoping that Schonert will "turn it around" even taken a look at his past? I can't imagine that you have. Otherwise what on earth would possibly possess you to think for even a NY second that he'll be successful, ... other than because Jauron says so and Schonert was his choice?

So was Fairchild and we see the abject disaster that he ushered in.

Come on people, ... Most of you are brighter than that. Most.

Other than w/ Flutie in Buffalo, Schonert has been an abject disaster leading his QBs to 101 TDs and 147 INTs.

That is competence?

Where is the assurrance that he even knows what the hell he's doing?

[TedMock]

I don't really have an opinion either way on this guy. He's a complete unknown as far as I can tell. The only things I know about him are that he's saying the right things in public and that he's coached 9 pretty bad QB's. Testaverde, Erickson, Dilfer, Weinke, Collins, Brooks, Johnson, Flutie and Losman. Edwards is yet to be determined. Testaverde had one "ok" season and one good season ten years after he entered the league. He's been overall crap the majority of his time in the league. Dilfer and Flutie have pretty much the same story. The rest have just stunk even more. How much of that is Schonert's fault - I really don't know. Are any of these guys career studs had they never met Turk Schonert? I doubt it.

So, there's my stance. I have no idea as to what I should expect from his playcalling because I don't have enough evidence to determine that he will or will not be capable of drawing and executing a game plan.

If anybody has any info on his X's and O's skills, I'd love to see it. I really am curious, but I have not found anything.