Need to kill the myth now.

[HHURRICANE]

Since people are determined to sell everybody on this board the myth that we are only 3 players away from the playoffs I would like you to add those players to this past years roster and ask yourself if we were making the playoffs.

One DT is going to improve our D to top 15 status?

One WR is going to improve our O to top 15 status?

The third addition is the tricky one because I've heard WLB, CB, and center bantered about. So pick your favorite here.

I can tell you that we win maybe one or two games tops. Dallas and Denver.

So that's 9-7. So how are we making the playoffs?

[Wys Guy]

Some people just wanna BILL-ieve.

SHHHhhhh! Don't shout, you'll wake them up.

[don137]

I do not put a number on how many players the Bills need to make the playoffs but if the Bills can stay healthy, the young players like Edwards matures and improves and the playcalling is much better on offense I think this team has a foundation good enough to make the playoffs with a few additions. Its not like this team is going to lose big 'playmaker'.
I think Edwards maturing is critical to this team taking it to the next level. Look at Cleveland, they get a quarterback (not a great one either, just a pretty good one) and they almost made the playoffs.

[Wys Guy]

See what you did HHURRICANE!!!

SHHHhhhhh......

[Bulldog]

See what you did HHURRICANE!!!

SHHHhhhhh......

I thought you divorced the Bills?

[HHURRICANE]

I do not put a number on how many players the Bills need to make the playoffs but if the Bills can stay healthy, the young players like Edwards matures and improves and the playcalling is much better on offense I think this team has a foundation good enough to make the playoffs with a few additions. Its not like this team is going to lose big 'playmaker'.
I think Edwards maturing is critical to this team taking it to the next level. Look at Cleveland, they get a quarterback (not a great one either, just a pretty good one) and they almost made the playoffs.

Do you really believe that we have almost as much talent as Cleveland?

They have a real receiving corps just for starters.

[mybills]

I thought you divorced the Bills?
:snicker: :hi5:

[HHURRICANE]

I noticed that everybody would like to bank on hypotheticals like a "young team maturing".

I asked a real question in the thread. Would have 3 players on this past years roster put us in the playoffs?

[Mahdi]

I noticed that everybody would like to bank on hypotheticals like a "young team maturing".

I asked a real question in the thread. Would have 3 players on this past years roster put us in the playoffs?
Another DE and DT on defense would have made a huge difference. If we had a DT that could rush the passer with more consistency and a DE who was more productive then we would have gotten off the field much more on 3rd down which was a huge problem for our defense. Even 3rd and long which usually favours the defense was a problem due to the lack of pass rush. 2 more DL would have made the D 10X better.


Now if we could have had another threat at WR it would have opened up our offense a lot more. It would free up Evans more on the other side and would also allow Reed and Parrish to play to their strengths in the slot where they should be. Giving our offense 2 more dimensions by adding 1 player to it would have been huge.

Thats how 3 players can make a big difference for a team. And if we had these 3 players we would most likely have just gotten into the playoffs. Probably could have beaten the Browns.

That being said I think the team is more like 4-5 players away from being a very competitive team every week.

The 3 I just mentionned + Poz + a receiving TE.

IMO that would make us a competitive playoff team.

[jdbillsfan]

Since people are determined to sell everybody on this board the myth that we are only 3 players away from the playoffs I would like you to add those players to this past years roster and ask yourself if we were making the playoffs.

One DT is going to improve our D to top 15 status?

One WR is going to improve our O to top 15 status?

The third addition is the tricky one because I've heard WLB, CB, and center bantered about. So pick your favorite here.

I can tell you that we win maybe one or two games tops. Dallas and Denver.

So that's 9-7. So how are we making the playoffs?

The myth has been killed. Way to go....

I guess some people see some positives with this team and hopefully getting some healthy players back, like Simpson, Poz, that with a few more additions, we can hopefully make a playoff run. We basically did that this past season with a rookie QB and rookie RB, injured defense, etc.

If you do get Simpson and Poz back, with the hopefully development of Trent, O-line gelling, etc. They can win some games and hopefully make a run.

Add in some free agents and high draft picks... why not?

[mybills]

I haven't seen anyone say we are 3 players away..but your last question isn't as cut & dry as that, either. For example, musical QB's is never a good thing.

[HHURRICANE]

Another DE and DT on defense would have made a huge difference. If we had a DT that could rush the passer with more consistency and a DE who was more productive then we would have gotten off the field much more on 3rd down which was a huge problem for our defense. Even 3rd and long which usually favours the defense was a problem due to the lack of pass rush. 2 more DL would have made the D 10X better.


Now if we could have had another threat at WR it would have opened up our offense a lot more. It would free up Evans more on the other side and would also allow Reed and Parrish to play to their strengths in the slot where they should be. Giving our offense 2 more dimensions by adding 1 player to it would have been huge.

Thats how 3 players can make a big difference for a team. And if we had these 3 players we would most likely have just gotten into the playoffs. Probably could have beaten the Browns.

That being said I think the team is more like 4-5 players away from being a very competitive team every week.

The 3 I just mentionned + Poz + a receiving TE.

IMO that would make us a competitive playoff team.

This is a nice post and I did set myself up for this.

However, DE can't be on the table because there is no way the Bills are replacing either Kelsay or Schobel as a starter. I agree that a DT and a DE would have been huge this past year but the Bills will never make a change on the starting ends, which is really sad.

[patmoran2006]

Since people are determined to sell everybody on this board the myth that we are only 3 players away from the playoffs I would like you to add those players to this past years roster and ask yourself if we were making the playoffs.

One DT is going to improve our D to top 15 status?

One WR is going to improve our O to top 15 status?

The third addition is the tricky one because I've heard WLB, CB, and center bantered about. So pick your favorite here.

I can tell you that we win maybe one or two games tops. Dallas and Denver.

So that's 9-7. So how are we making the playoffs?
From a fellow "realist", I think that it's not much of a myth at all. . Of course, not any 3 players will get it done. But if they get three players at positions that improve that spot, then I do think they are a legitimate playoff team.

In your rant, in which a lot of is correct; you definitely neglect to mention one thing. Don't you think some of our younger, more talented players are going to improve with a year's experience? That alone could translate to more wins.

Trent Edwards will be a better player next year. Marshawn Lynch will definitely be a better runner this year. I expect Poz to be better. I expect McCArgo to matter more. I'm "hoping' Whitner develops into a solid safety (I have my doughts).

Those guys right there alone (and there are more) could improve the win total by a little bit. Get us a better playmaker or two on the offense and a guy or two on defense that makes the front seven better. Combine that with an offensive coordinator with more "guts"-- and I think that making the playoffs is far from a myth.

I am sold on a lot of the young talent we have. I'm also convinced they DO need about 3 quality players in the free agent market. Give me that, and another good draft and I'll throw down on the odds that Buffalo makes the playoff next year.

Way too early though, I'm far from convinced Wilson hasn't thrown in the towel already though.

[SquishDaFish]

Wys I thought you gave up on OUR Bills a long time ago?? Go to the Pats board or something

[HHURRICANE]

The myth has been killed. Way to go....

I guess some people see some positives with this team and hopefully getting some healthy players back, like Simpson, Poz, that with a few more additions, we can hopefully make a playoff run. We basically did that this past season with a rookie QB and rookie RB, injured defense, etc.

If you do get Simpson and Poz back, with the hopefully development of Trent, O-line gelling, etc. They can win some games and hopefully make a run.

Add in some free agents and high draft picks... why not?

Poz and Simpson were big losses, no doubt, but everyone acts like this team is going to play in a vacuum next year. Are we not getting injuries next year?

This is why 3 players isn't getting us over the hump. We lose Poz and the D folds like a cheap suit. Crowell is not enough of a talent to do anything.

[Wys Guy]

I thought you divorced the Bills?

Yeah, I pretty much have pending the sale of the team at which time I will reevaluate.

What of it?

[Philagape]

Assuming we do get three new starters, it won't be just them, but it's reasonable to expect some improvement from some of the young current players. If Edwards takes the next step, with better weapons, that'll be huge. Lynch can learn to read holes better. McCargo. As has been pointed out, the return of Poz and Ko. So we're not talking just three new players; we're talking possible improvement in many more spots. And we're not losing any starters to FA, so a good draft will build the depth. If we get significant upgrades at WR, TE and DT, the rest may take care of itself, so to speak.

[HHURRICANE]

I am sold on a lot of the young talent we have. I'm also convinced they DO need about 3 quality players in the free agent market. Give me that, and another good draft and I'll throw down on the odds that Buffalo makes the playoff next year.

Well your basically saying that we need more than 3 players. Your also assuming that we will get quality players in FA.

My post is saying that adding a quality DT, WR, and CB will not be nearly enough. I saw games where this team from top to bottom got dominated. That's not a 3 player problem.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Yes, why on Earth should we hope to get some good players in and start turning this team around! How dare us as fans hope for the best!

[Mahdi]

This is a nice post and I did set myself up for this.

However, DE can't be on the table because there is no way the Bills are replacing either Kelsay or Schobel as a starter. I agree that a DT and a DE would have been huge this past year but the Bills will never make a change on the starting ends, which is really sad.
Well there are a few things to keep in mind regarding DE.

1) Our coaches are well aware that we wont be successful in our C2 without productivity from BOTH DEs, so if they feel that Kelsay wont get it done I dont think they will hesitate to add a more talented DE as an upgrade.

2) We currently only have 3 DEs on the roster and 2 that are fully healthy. Either way we need a 4th. And that 4th could easily end up beating out #2 and #3.

3) Schobel is turning 31 before the start of next year so taking his replacement now isnt too far fetched.

4) As a cover 2 team that doesnt have a lot of money tied up in CBs and LBs it allows us to invest more than the non- C2 teams into the DL.

[HHURRICANE]

Guys, this isn't a Bills suck thread. I'm concerned that the FO thinks three players makes this team better and I'm saying no way.

What if Crowell gets injured next year? We have the exact same problem again.

[Jan Reimers]

Some people just wanna BILL-ieve
Exactly right. That's really what most fans do. Look at Red Sox fans and their 86 year drought, or Cubbies or Indians fans. Look at Browns fans, whose team has never been to Super Bowl. Fans stick with their teams and continue to be optimistic and to hope - yes I said HOPE - for better days. That, not the constant *****ing and negativity, is the FUN of being a fan.

As far as the Bills go, 3-4 good players (DT, DE, WR, TE), coupled with the additional experience that Edwards, Lynch, Butler, DiGiorgio and some others will bring to the table this year, coupled with the return of at least Poz, Denney and Simpson, coupled with some more aggressive offensive playcalling, WILL make a big difference.

[HHURRICANE]

Well there are a few things to keep in mind regarding DE.

1) Our coaches are well aware that we wont be successful in our C2 without productivity from BOTH DEs, so if they feel that Kelsay wont get it done I dont think they will hesitate to add a more talented DE as an upgrade.

2) We currently only have 3 DEs on the roster and 2 that are fully healthy. Either way we need a 4th. And that 4th could easily end up beating out #2 and #3.

3) Schobel is turning 31 before the start of next year so taking his replacement now isnt too far fetched.

4) As a cover 2 team that doesnt have a lot of money tied up in CBs and LBs it allows us to invest more than the non- C2 teams into the DL.

Your on a roll and I hope your right. I am probably the only person on this board that thinks DE is way more important this offseason than DT.

I think our first draft pick should be DE but I don't see the Bills being that bold.

[HHURRICANE]

As far as the Bills go, 3-4 good players (DT, DE, WR, TE), coupled with the additional experience that Edwards, Lynch, Butler, DiGiorgio and some others will bring to the table this year, coupled with the return of at least Poz, Denney and Simpson, coupled with some more aggressive offensive playcalling, WILL make a big difference.

I like the optimism but we need something better than above. I look at a team like Cleveland and their best players are better than our best players.

We need some game changers and we just don't have them. Kellen Winlsow on the Bills is what I'm talking about.

[TacklingDummy]

I asked a real question in the thread. Would have 3 players on this past years roster put us in the playoffs?

I'll give you 2...

DT: Pat Williams
WR: Randy Moss

[patmoran2006]

Well your basically saying that we need more than 3 players. Your also assuming that we will get quality players in FA.

My post is saying that adding a quality DT, WR, and CB will not be nearly enough. I saw games where this team from top to bottom got dominated. That's not a 3 player problem.
YEs, I am saying that we need about three players. Like you, I am NOT assuming we will get quality players in FA. In fact, although I cant say for sure, I'm expecting 2006 all over again where instead of signing 2-3 QUALITY guys, we're going to purchase a whole ****load of garbage free agents.

IF, we add a quality DT, WR and LB (I dont think we need a corner more than CB), I do think it will be enough.. And I made it a point my post to talk about how I think the younger guys that werent quite "good enough" this year will be much improved next year. So if you add three quality new starters along with a bunch of young guys that I think will be improved, then I do think it's enough to get a REALISTIC playoff sniff.

You're citing games from last year. I think with a year's experience Edwards plays better at Cleveland. Maybe McCargo with more playing time makes a bigger impact... I think we pull out a few more games that we didn't last year.

[mayotm]

Yeah, I pretty much have pending the sale of the team at which time I will reevaluate.

What of it?It means get lost. Let us fans worry about the state of the Bills.

[Wys Guy]

Another DE and DT on defense would have made a huge difference. If we had a DT that could rush the passer with more consistency and a DE who was more productive then we would have gotten off the field much more on 3rd down which was a huge problem for our defense. Even 3rd and long which usually favours the defense was a problem due to the lack of pass rush. 2 more DL would have made the D 10X better.

Here's where you lose a lot of people Mahdi.

You probably want us to believe that this organization is competent but just doesn't have the talent in the right spots, right?

OK then, who put in place all the key DTs that we now have? If they're not getting the job done, shouldn't you be joining those in looking to replace those that did it?

McCargo, Tripplett, Williams, and Jason Jefferson were all brought on by this crew. They had other options, but avoided those insisting that these guys would do what you just said.

Next you make a similar statement with the DEs. We, they, just gave Kelsay and Schobel enormous extensions and signed Hargrove and even Al Wallace. Again, they had options, at all price levels, but chose these guys.

So now, A, you want us to believe that with their next round of selections that they'll finally get it right when the people that got it wrong have been getting it wrong for years, and B, that we need more depth when our starters aren't even getting it done. Why?

Also, why is it that other teams can primarily use four starters with only depth for getting them some rest, while we need five or six players to rotate constantly? Couldn't there be much bigger issues than you think with those driving this freight train over the cliff now?

[Wys Guy]

I haven't seen anyone say we are 3 players away..but your last question isn't as cut & dry as that, either. For example, musical QB's is never a good thing.

Nor is a QB controversy on the low end.

Yet, Schonert has been touted as confident and promoted to OC after bringing you that coupled with a Losman regression.

Shades of Gilbride's promotion.

[Wys Guy]

Well there are a few things to keep in mind regarding DE.

1) Our coaches are well aware that we wont be successful in our C2 without productivity from BOTH DEs, so if they feel that Kelsay wont get it done I dont think they will hesitate to add a more talented DE as an upgrade.

2) We currently only have 3 DEs on the roster and 2 that are fully healthy. Either way we need a 4th. And that 4th could easily end up beating out #2 and #3.

3) Schobel is turning 31 before the start of next year so taking his replacement now isnt too far fetched.

4) As a cover 2 team that doesnt have a lot of money tied up in CBs and LBs it allows us to invest more than the non- C2 teams into the DL.

Why on earth did they just give enormous contracts to both Kelsay and Schobel then?

How come those that support this team still never question these things?

Justin Tuck, far better than either Schobel or Kelsay and a great run defending DE too got less than either, substantially less than the 31 year old to be Schobel. Why?

You guys are dealing with the symptoms, not the problems.

[Wys Guy]

Wys I thought you gave up on OUR Bills a long time ago?? Go to the Pats board or something

I have given up on the Bills. That doesn't make me a non-fan.

I'm not a Pats fan, that's why.

Does criticism of a third party bother you?

[Wys Guy]

Guys, this isn't a Bills suck thread. I'm concerned that the FO thinks three players makes this team better and I'm saying no way.

What if Crowell gets injured next year? We have the exact same problem again.

Lots of teams have four or five really good players. Look at Arizona for example. Most teams have more individual talent than we have.

That's the problem. Those in charge keep bringing on players, tell us how great they are/were/will be, and they're just about categorically wrong to the extent that they said.

Part of that is coaching, and when you have losers as coaches it reflects. Part of that also has to do with the personnel guys, and that's where many of you simply fail to see the issues.

[Wys Guy]

It means get lost. Let us fans worry about the state of the Bills.

Yazza massa!

I's a gits befo yo give me a whuppin'!

KMA

[THATHURMANATOR]

Nor is a QB controversy on the low end.

Yet, Schonert has been touted as confident and promoted to OC after bringing you that coupled with a Losman regression.

Shades of Gilbride's promotion.
Gilbride is in the superbowl.... Just sayin...

[bigbub2352]

3 players from FA, and then the draft and now we r talking, u come out of FA with a real good OLB, and a space eater, and a vet WR, then go draft a WR, TE, C, LB, CB, DE in no particular order and we r defintly fillin some wholes, we r in the postion that we got a lot of playing time for depth players and young players, that are only going to mature and get better, TE and LYnch and Evans who needs to be extended, throw in 2 big WRs, and Parrish and Reed, now ur talkin, draft one recevieing Tight end, and u got ur mallers in Royal and Gaines, it is not as bad as people think
FO needs to make moves thou and maybe cut ties with dead money vets like Pprice, Atrain, not resign those bums Aiken, Stamer, Haggan, and add players who are hungary like Scott, Costanzo, Fox to replace them, as well as Wendling and Jenkins and u got urself an very versatile depth chart

Chambers backin up tackle isnt horrible, we need depth inside that could be coming from Merz,

Saftey is all set
Cb is all set add some depth
Lb need a stud
DT need a stud
DE hargrove needs to be replaced in the third round with a pass rush specialist
OT set
G need depth
C need a starter
WR need 2 big targets
TE need a reciever
QB back up vet
RB set
FB need to add a draft pick here
really can be done with the FA and cap room we have and our draft postion

[Mahdi]

Here's where you lose a lot of people Mahdi.

You probably want us to believe that this organization is competent but just doesn't have the talent in the right spots, right?

OK then, who put in place all the key DTs that we now have? If they're not getting the job done, shouldn't you be joining those in looking to replace those that did it?

McCargo, Tripplett, Williams, and Jason Jefferson were all brought on by this crew. They had other options, but avoided those insisting that these guys would do what you just said.

Next you make a similar statement with the DEs. We, they, just gave Kelsay and Schobel enormous extensions and signed Hargrove and even Al Wallace. Again, they had options, at all price levels, but chose these guys.

So now, A, you want us to believe that with their next round of selections that they'll finally get it right when the people that got it wrong have been getting it wrong for years, and B, that we need more depth when our starters aren't even getting it done. Why?

Also, why is it that other teams can primarily use four starters with only depth for getting them some rest, while we need five or six players to rotate constantly? Couldn't there be much bigger issues than you think with those driving this freight train over the cliff now?
The trend with this team is that we are building through the draft year by year and adding a couple of FAs here and there. Who do you feel we really missed on in FA that could have contributed to our DL???

Sure we paid Kelsay and Schobel a lot but in reality the Schobel deal is not as good as it looks.. im sure there are loopholes in it that make it look good on the surface but also allow the Bills some breathing room.

Kelsay's contract for most teams in the NFL would be considered over-paying but not for a defense that invests heavily in DL rather than paying out big contracts to our CBs and LBs as I stated before. Therefore we can afford to overpay a little for Kelsay and if need be have him as our #3 DE.

McCargo has shown he can be dominant when he is on the field and im sure he will get the chance to start next year as the nose. Kyle Williams is as good as it gets for a #2 nose. Tripplett IMO is a perfect #2 3 technique guy and would be much more effective playing behind a slightly better and more consistent DT. If we had Ellis and McCargo for example with Tripps and Williams coming off the bench we would have a solid 4 DT rotation.

As it stands now I believe our team is one draft and one FA period away from competing at a much higher level.

[mayotm]

Yazza massa!

I's a gits befo yo give me a whuppin'!

KMABrilliant as usual.

[mybills]

is it dead yet?

[acehole]

Playoffs? palyoffs? Did you say PLAYOFFS?


Well at least the debate has gone beyond the QB position.
I said months ago that debate was masking muliple issues.
To your piont some of those games were close enough that
a wr or Dt may have made the difference...but to what end?
We didnt have the ponies to take it the last mile anyway. One
draft and fa period may be enough to upgade however one or two
years of Gelling might be needed especial with our current QB situation.
It comes down again to ole Ralphy boys willingness to get quality FA in addition to the draft we might have something sooner rather then later......



Since people are determined to sell everybody on this board the myth that we are only 3 players away from the playoffs I would like you to add those players to this past years roster and ask yourself if we were making the playoffs.

One DT is going to improve our D to top 15 status?

One WR is going to improve our O to top 15 status?

The third addition is the tricky one because I've heard WLB, CB, and center bantered about. So pick your favorite here.

I can tell you that we win maybe one or two games tops. Dallas and Denver.

So that's 9-7. So how are we making the playoffs?

[Bulldog]

Yeah, I pretty much have pending the sale of the team at which time I will reevaluate.

What of it?

Well, considering you seem to be spending a good amount of time on these boards, I would call you seperated, because I think you still have feelings for the Bills. You're still hoping there can be some sort of reconciliation. If you were truly divorced, I wouldn't expect to see you here at all.

[Buffatexas]

Yazza massa!

I's a gits befo yo give me a whuppin'!

KMA

and you thought the flash from the folks was bad...just wait till Al Sharpton gets ahold of you for that one :)

[John Doe]

YEs, I am saying that we need about three players. Like you, I am NOT assuming we will get quality players in FA. In fact, although I cant say for sure, I'm expecting 2006 all over again where instead of signing 2-3 QUALITY guys, we're going to purchase a whole ****load of garbage free agents.


I can't fathom why you would possibly believe this.

The team is losing only one player of any significance - that being Hargrove, and even he missed 4 games last year.

They are loaded with draft picks and figure to maybe pick up another with a Losman trade. I doubt that the low rounders stand much of a chance to even make the team.

They spent big money on two free agents last year.

They are in great cap-shape.

If your theory had any validity, they would not have brought in Dockery and Walker last year.

[helmetguy]

Well, considering you seem to be spending a good amount of time on these boards, I would call you seperated, because I think you still have feelings for the Bills. You're still hoping there can be some sort of reconciliation. If you were truly divorced, I wouldn't expect to see you here at all.

I think he's suing for alimony.

[yordad]

Since people are determined to sell everybody on this board the myth that we are only 3 players away from the playoffs I would like you to add those players to this past years roster and ask yourself if we were making the playoffs.

One DT is going to improve our D to top 15 status?

One WR is going to improve our O to top 15 status?

The third addition is the tricky one because I've heard WLB, CB, and center bantered about. So pick your favorite here.

I can tell you that we win maybe one or two games tops. Dallas and Denver.

So that's 9-7. So how are we making the playoffs?I didn't realize we had the same schedule.

I didn't realize we couldn't get back injured players.

I didn't realize we still had Fairchild.

I didn't realize we could only add three players.