Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

[Buffatexas]

Sorry if this was already posted, Maybe Ralph is smarter than we give him credit for

This isn’t small-market owner Ralph Wilson of the Bills or Mike Brown of the Bengals complaining. Bowlen is the chairman of the NFL’s labor committee....

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/261645.html

[Jan Reimers]

Ralph was simply man enough to stand up and tell everyone that the emperor was naked. When you start with labor costs that are 59% of revenues, and then add in all of your other costs, there isn't going to be much profit left.

But of course Ralph was vilified for having the courage to state what was obvious to a lot of other owners, as well.

[YardRat]

Of course Ralph isn't stupid...Many posters supported Ralph's comments and also knew from the beginning that this CBA was crap. Some have been thumping on the cash issue, specifically the disparity in unshared revenues that are being created with every new stadium, every new luxury suite, and every new PSL.

Owners like Jones and Kraft are going to be the downfall of the league unless the majority smarten up quickly and do something to keep these guys from running ramshod over the rest of the teams.

The NFL was built, grown, and prospered on revenue sharing and only an idiot would try to upset the balance.

[gr8slayer]

Of course Ralph isn't stupid...Many posters supported Ralph's comments and also knew from the beginning that this CBA was crap. Some have been thumping on the cash issue, specifically the disparity in unshared revenues that are being created with every new stadium, every new luxury suite, and every new PSL.

Owners like Jones and Kraft are going to be the downfall of the league unless the majority smarten up quickly and do something to keep these guys from running ramshod over the rest of the teams.

The NFL was built, grown, and prospered on revenue sharing and only an idiot would try to upset the balance.
Damn those owners who have done well for themselves.

[YardRat]

Damn those owners who have done well for themselves.

That's the key right there...They are concentrating on doing well for themselves in an environment that was created to do well for everybody first, individual participants second. Selfish gratification has taken over for concern for the whole, which will destroy the league in the long run.

'Don't bite the hand that feeds you.'

[gr8slayer]

That's the key right there...They are concentrating on doing well for themselves in an environment that was created to do well for everybody first, individual participants second. Selfish gratification has taken over for concern for the whole, which will destroy the league in the long run.

'Don't bite the hand that feeds you.'
That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.

[YardRat]

That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.

It isn't just affecting the small market teams anymore, it's affecting the middle class also.

Capitalism is fine, but the NFL wasn't created and didn't become what it is/was under that format and it won't be able to sustain itself if it continues down that road.

It's a loophole in the system that needs to be addressed. Luxury suites, PSL's, etc, bottom line, are ticket sales and ticket sales are supposed to be shared revenue.

[Confused]

james lofton, back in buffalo? thatwould be awesome.

[Wys Guy]

Ralph was simply man enough to stand up and tell everyone that the emperor was naked. When you start with labor costs that are 59% of revenues, and then add in all of your other costs, there isn't going to be much profit left.

But of course Ralph was vilified for having the courage to state what was obvious to a lot of other owners, as well.

Perhaps. Another factor however in this mirrors the housing bubble. When they signed this new/temporary agreement, the assumption was that league revenues and therefore the salcap would continue to increase by the very large strides that it had made in the years prior to their signing this agreement. Had those revenues, ergo the salcap, continued to expand by the huge percentages that it had allowing it to double within a handful of years, then this wouldn't be an issue.

As to Wilson, the issue isn't the cap. It's what the team does with the money that they do have. You just can't keep swinging and missing and then crying foul that you don't have anymore at bats/swings left. You get "three strikes" and then you're out. Good GM'ship isn't about keep trying and trying until finally due to pure chance you get it right.

[Wys Guy]

james lofton, back in buffalo? thatwould be awesome.
It would be awesome if he replaced Jauron. I promise you he'd be at least an average head coach early on!

[YardRat]

Perhaps. Another factor however in this mirrors the housing bubble. When they signed this new/temporary agreement, the assumption was that league revenues and therefore the salcap would continue to increase by the very large strides that it had made in the years prior to their signing this agreement. Had those revenues, ergo the salcap, continued to expand by the huge percentages that it had allowing it to double within a handful of years, then this wouldn't be an issue.

As to Wilson, the issue isn't the cap. It's what the team does with the money that they do have. You just can't keep swinging and missing and then crying foul that you don't have anymore at bats/swings left. You get "three strikes" and then you're out. Good GM'ship isn't about keep trying and trying until finally due to pure chance you get it right.

I agree to a certain point, but the issue is cash, plain and simple. Because of the disparity in revenue, Buffalo gets three strikes but others (like Dallas) get six. Smaller market teams don't have the margin of error the richer teams do, so they have to be more judicious with their expenditures.

Because of revenue restraints, teams like Buffalo are basically forced to invest their money in bonds while others are free to play in a bull market. More conservative investments = more conservative gains, whereas others have the ability to gamble, and hit, on futures.

[Ebenezer]

That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.
dude, why don't you just root for the cowboys....:shakeno:

[gr8slayer]

dude, why don't you just root for the cowboys....:shakeno:
Because I'm a Bills fan?

[patmoran2006]

My single BIGGEST problem with Wilson isn't his spending on players (though I admit I have a problem with that too). I mean he did spend a lot on the OL last yaer, he did sign off on overpaying the living hell out of Kelsay and Schobel.. I think he takes some shortcuts with other talent being released, traded or not resigned to recoup a lot of that money, but I do think for the "most part" he isn't scared to go out and sign some "big name" guys to help the team.

My BIG problem with Wilson is with the horrid frugalness he displays when it comes to hirings with his personnel. He's still living off Polian/Levy era, where he struck gold and got away with the cheap hires. We're consistently at the bottom of the league in pay for GM's, head coaches, coordinators, scouts, etc and that's the biggest reason we've been a perennial loser.

Promoting Brandon, Guy and Modrak is a complete and utter joke. These guys have only proven that they're consistent at fielding sub-par football teams. How does Guy, a person that has made some AWFUL NFL personnel decisions get a promotion? Modrak, who's prints have been on our draft since 2002, has more misses than hits. Brandon is an admitted Marketing guy, not a football mind-- yet they all get promoted?

As for Jauron; please. Nice guy, good teacher, probably is better suited for the college ranks or maybe a D.C. in the NFL (at best). He's a bad, scared and gun-shy game-day coach, and it is far from coincidence he's had one winning season out of eight. Yet he is getting a SUBSTANTIAL increase in authority?

The only decision I DO like is Turk at O.C. He's seen firsthand exactly HOW TO NOT run an offense; so I think he's a good hire.

With a nice young core of talent, this was WIlson's chance to have Levy ride off into the sunset and bring in a real GM; a GM that can build a winner. And this whole "chemistry" and "direction" thing is a huge crock of ****. That applies to teams that win! What is our goal, to have a 10-win season once before all these young stars become FA's and we lose most of them, and start all over again?

Our head coach is the same, and our O.C is from within and I"m fine with that. But for the love of God, bring in a GM who knows how to bring more TALENT and winning direction to this team.

So player signings aside, when it comes to the front office and the staff, Wilson is and will always be a cheap **********- and that more than the players is why we always lose.

[Gunzlingr]

Because I'm a Bills fan?
Really? As much as you praise the Cowboys, you could have fooled me.

[gr8slayer]

Really? As much as you praise the Cowboys, you could have fooled me. It's not that hard to fool you .

[Michael82]

My single BIGGEST problem with Wilson isn't his spending on players (though I admit I have a problem with that too). I mean he did spend a lot on the OL last yaer, he did sign off on overpaying the living hell out of Kelsay and Schobel.. I think he takes some shortcuts with other talent being released, traded or not resigned to recoup a lot of that money, but I do think for the "most part" he isn't scared to go out and sign some "big name" guys to help the team.

My BIG problem with Wilson is with the horrid frugalness he displays when it comes to hirings with his personnel. He's still living off Polian/Levy era, where he struck gold and got away with the cheap hires. We're consistently at the bottom of the league in pay for GM's, head coaches, coordinators, scouts, etc and that's the biggest reason we've been a perennial loser.

Promoting Brandon, Guy and Modrak is a complete and utter joke. These guys have only proven that they're consistent at fielding sub-par football teams. How does Guy, a person that has made some AWFUL NFL personnel decisions get a promotion? Modrak, who's prints have been on our draft since 2002, has more misses than hits. Brandon is an admitted Marketing guy, not a football mind-- yet they all get promoted?

As for Jauron; please. Nice guy, good teacher, probably is better suited for the college ranks or maybe a D.C. in the NFL (at best). He's a bad, scared and gun-shy game-day coach, and it is far from coincidence he's had one winning season out of eight. Yet he is getting a SUBSTANTIAL increase in authority?

The only decision I DO like is Turk at O.C. He's seen firsthand exactly HOW TO NOT run an offense; so I think he's a good hire.

With a nice young core of talent, this was WIlson's chance to have Levy ride off into the sunset and bring in a real GM; a GM that can build a winner. And this whole "chemistry" and "direction" thing is a huge crock of ****. That applies to teams that win! What is our goal, to have a 10-win season once before all these young stars become FA's and we lose most of them, and start all over again?

Our head coach is the same, and our O.C is from within and I"m fine with that. But for the love of God, bring in a GM who knows how to bring more TALENT and winning direction to this team.

So player signings aside, when it comes to the front office and the staff, Wilson is and will always be a cheap **********- and that more than the players is why we always lose.
:gag:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=143962

[jamze132]

Because I'm a Bills fan?
You haven't been sounding like one. Especially with that Av...

We all know the Bills suck and their are enough people on these boards making sure we all know how bad they suck. What are you going to do about the Bills sucking?

[gr8slayer]

You haven't been sounding like one. Especially with that Av...

We all know the Bills suck and their are enough people on these boards making sure we all know how bad they suck. What are you going to do about the Bills sucking?
So I like Jerry Jones as an owner, sue me. He's an owner who is emotionally involved in his team and will do anything to win, that's more than I can say for Wilson. I could put 31 other owners in my avatar with the title "better than Ralph."

I do my part every year, I spend hundreds on merchandise and spend at least a grand a year going to a game. I also drop a couple hundred a year on Sunday Ticket and Superfan to insure that I will be able to watch the Bills every week. If I lived remotely closer to New York I would be a season ticket holder and go to every single home game. But since I have to pay for tuition I won't be able to do that until I get out of school.

You can question my being a fan all day long, none of you know me. Those who do know me know that I might be the biggest Bills fan in the land.

[Michael82]

Those who do know me know that I might be the biggest Bills fan in the land.
Yes you are, but two others are right up there too. :snicker:

http://www.billszone.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Photo007%7E77.jpg

[Ebenezer]

So I like Jerry Jones as an owner, sue me. He's an owner who is emotionally involved in his team and will do anything to win, that's more than I can say for Wilson. I could put 31 other owners in my avatar with the title "better than Ralph."

I do my part every year, I spend hundreds on merchandise and spend at least a grand a year going to a game. I also drop a couple hundred a year on Sunday Ticket and Superfan to insure that I will be able to watch the Bills every week. If I lived remotely closer to New York I would be a season ticket holder and go to every single home game. But since I have to pay for tuition I won't be able to do that until I get out of school.

You can question my being a fan all day long, none of you know me. Those who do know me know that I might be the biggest Bills fan in the land.
you may like Jones as an owner but the way he does business is exactly the road by which the Bills will be destroyed. at which point you will have to go root for another team.

[Philagape]

I feel so much better to know that the Bungles agree with Ralph. :ill:

[gr8slayer]

you may like Jones as an owner but the way he does business is exactly the road by which the Bills will be destroyed. at which point you will have to go root for another team.
As much as we might not like it I can't blame the guy. The business world is dog eat dog. Somehow I highly doubt that Goodell will allow the league to go under like that.

[YardRat]

My single BIGGEST problem with Wilson isn't his spending on players (though I admit I have a problem with that too). I mean he did spend a lot on the OL last yaer, he did sign off on overpaying the living hell out of Kelsay and Schobel.. I think he takes some shortcuts with other talent being released, traded or not resigned to recoup a lot of that money, but I do think for the "most part" he isn't scared to go out and sign some "big name" guys to help the team.

My BIG problem with Wilson is with the horrid frugalness he displays when it comes to hirings with his personnel. He's still living off Polian/Levy era, where he struck gold and got away with the cheap hires. We're consistently at the bottom of the league in pay for GM's, head coaches, coordinators, scouts, etc and that's the biggest reason we've been a perennial loser.

Promoting Brandon, Guy and Modrak is a complete and utter joke. These guys have only proven that they're consistent at fielding sub-par football teams. How does Guy, a person that has made some AWFUL NFL personnel decisions get a promotion? Modrak, who's prints have been on our draft since 2002, has more misses than hits. Brandon is an admitted Marketing guy, not a football mind-- yet they all get promoted?

As for Jauron; please. Nice guy, good teacher, probably is better suited for the college ranks or maybe a D.C. in the NFL (at best). He's a bad, scared and gun-shy game-day coach, and it is far from coincidence he's had one winning season out of eight. Yet he is getting a SUBSTANTIAL increase in authority?

The only decision I DO like is Turk at O.C. He's seen firsthand exactly HOW TO NOT run an offense; so I think he's a good hire.

With a nice young core of talent, this was WIlson's chance to have Levy ride off into the sunset and bring in a real GM; a GM that can build a winner. And this whole "chemistry" and "direction" thing is a huge crock of ****. That applies to teams that win! What is our goal, to have a 10-win season once before all these young stars become FA's and we lose most of them, and start all over again?

Our head coach is the same, and our O.C is from within and I"m fine with that. But for the love of God, bring in a GM who knows how to bring more TALENT and winning direction to this team.

So player signings aside, when it comes to the front office and the staff, Wilson is and will always be a cheap **********- and that more than the players is why we always lose.

TD was a big-name hire and I'm sure he didn't come cheap. That worked out just great.

[Ebenezer]

As much as we might not like it I can't blame the guy. The business world is dog eat dog. Somehow I highly doubt that Goodell will allow the league to go under like that.
who said the league go under?? we are talking the destruction of the small market teams except for Green Bay....and maybe even them.

[Michael82]

who said the league go under?? we are talking the destruction of the small market teams except for Green Bay....and maybe even them.
Exactly!

[gr8slayer]

who said the league go under?? we are talking the destruction of the small market teams except for Green Bay....and maybe even them.
So a few small market teams get knocked off the map, it happens every day to small businesses in the real world. It's not something that you or I can fix so there's no point worrying about it. All we can do is continue to support the team by going to the games and spending our hard earned money and just hope for the best. Wilson has really put us all in a bind by not selling the team while he's still breathing and it may come back to bite us in the ass.

[Ebenezer]

So a few small market teams get knocked off the map, it happens every day to small businesses in the real world. It's not something that you or I can fix so there's no point worrying about it. All we can do is continue to support the team by going to the games and spending our hard earned money and just hope for the best. Wilson has really put us all in a bind by not selling the team while he's still breathing and it may come back to bite us in the ass.
Don't ***** when the Bills are one of them....like I said you might as well root for the Cowboys now.

:bigwave:

[gr8slayer]

Don't ***** when the Bills are one of them....like I said you might as well root for the Cowboys now.

:bigwave:
When hell freezes over....

[Bert102176]

and this happens after the curse was lifted coincedence I think not

[G. Host]

When hell freezes over....

Well temperture is pretty close to freezing in hell because you have stated before that Dallas is your favorite NFC team.

[gr8slayer]

Well temperture is pretty close to freezing in hell because you have stated before that Dallas is your favorite NFC team.
That they are, but they are far from even coming close to the Bills for #1.

I own roughly 37 Bills jerseys, take a guess at how many Cowboys jerseys I own?

[G. Host]

That they are, but they are far from even coming close to the Bills for #1.

I own roughly 37 Bills jerseys, take a guess at how many Cowboys jerseys I own?

Depends on how many versions of Jerry Jones jerseys that have came out.

[gr8slayer]

Depends on how many versions of Jerry Jones jerseys that have came out.
Wow.....

[RockStar36]

Everyone needs to relax with personal attacks!

[jamze132]

So I like Jerry Jones as an owner, sue me. He's an owner who is emotionally involved in his team and will do anything to win, that's more than I can say for Wilson. I could put 31 other owners in my avatar with the title "better than Ralph."

I do my part every year, I spend hundreds on merchandise and spend at least a grand a year going to a game. I also drop a couple hundred a year on Sunday Ticket and Superfan to insure that I will be able to watch the Bills every week. If I lived remotely closer to New York I would be a season ticket holder and go to every single home game. But since I have to pay for tuition I won't be able to do that until I get out of school.

You can question my being a fan all day long, none of you know me. Those who do know me know that I might be the biggest Bills fan in the land.
You should pay homage to Ralph Wilson once a year by making a trek on foot to his stadium during the offseason. :dance:

[LifetimeBillsFan]

That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.

If Wellington Mara and, yes, the much-maligned around here, Ralph Wilson Jr. both had this attitude that you are expressing in all of your posts on this thread, the NFL would not be the league or the financial gold-mine that it is now and the AFL would never have survived long enough to effect the merger with the NFL that produced the Super Bowl (which, in turn, has produced most of the top 10 highest rated television events and generated billions in business, raising the value of the NFL's franchises significantly).

In the late 1950s, the NY Giants generated more radio and television revenue than all of the other NFL franchises combined. The Giants also produced more local revenue than a handful of other franchises. Even with a draft and no free agency, the Giants were generating enough money to allow them to dwarf the other team in the league on the field as well as off.

Wellington Mara was not a stupid man. He recognized what the situation was. And, he could have kept all of the money that his franchise was generating and, using just some of it, built a team that would win the NFL title every year (if he had wanted, he could have paid enough to bring Brooklyn-bred V.Lombardi or T.Landry, both former Giants' assistants back to be head coach of the team).

But, unlike today's "hurray for me and to hell with everyone else"-style capitalists, Mara also recognized that, if he kept all of the money that the Giants were generating and buiilt a dynasty in New York, ultimately, it would kill off the league as teams like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, etc. would perish. Instead, Mara gave up his preeminent financial position in the league and got the other owners to agree to negotiate a national television deal to replace their local TV deals, with all of the teams in the league sharing those revenues. Doing so not only allowed teams like the Packers, Cardinals and Steelers to survive, but allowed the league to expand to Minnesota and back into Dallas (where the league had failed in the mid-1950s!!!).

The AFL owners, seeing what Mara's arrangement had done for the NFL, adopted a similar arrangement when they negotiated their first national television deal. Bud Adams, Lamar Hunt and Barron Conrad--all of whom were flush with cash and owned franchises in areas capable of generating a lot more than the other teams in the league--could have used the initial success of their teams, which had won the AFL's first champinships, to push for inclusion in the NFL without the acceptance of the rest of the franchises in the league--that was what had happened with the old All-America Football Conference in 1950. But, they chose to share league revenues early on to keep teams like Denver and Oakland afloat.

As we now know, when the Oakland Raiders were about to go bankrupt in the mid-1960s, which would have killed the AFL and ended any chance of the league coming to an agreement with the NFL to have all of its teams absorbed into the NFL, Ralph Wilson Jr. helped Al Davis take over the team and gave it an infusion of cash and talent that allowed the Raiders to go on to become the iconic franchise that it became in the early 1970s and 1980s. The Bills were AFL champions at the time and doing quite well financially, despite playing their games at the old "Rockpile". There was a pretty good chance that, if any AFL teams were absorbed into the NFL if the AFL folded, the Bills would have been one of them. Wilson could have could have let the Raiders fold and taken his chances with getting the Bills into the NFL. But, seeing further than the immediate benefits to his own pocketbook, Wilson put up the cash and players that saved the Raiders and led to the AFL-NFL merger. And, without the merger, there is no Super Bowl.

Now, think about that for a moment.

Without sharing the revenues from a national television deal, professional football probably does not survive as a major sport. If it does, it doesn't generate enough national interest to surpass the popularity of college football because it is limited to a handful of big cities and the networks are not interested in promoting it.

If the AFL does not survive, there is no Super Bowl, just a NFL Championship Game. With the NFL having virtually the same structure that it had in the 1960s, pro football continues to run a distant second to major league baseball as the national sport and has to struggle to compete with baseball because it doesn't have a premier television event to broadcast like the World Series.

If the owners in the NFL and AFL in the late 1950s and 1960s were the kind of "pure" capitalists that Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft are and think that NFL owners should be allowed to be, there would be no Dallas COwboys or New England Patriots for them to own--because those franchises wouldn't even exist in the NFL.

So, enough with this Adam Smith capitalism argument! (Those who believe in Adam Smith capitalism should go and read some of Charles Dickens' works to find out just what kind of society that kind of capitalism produces.) The NFL is what it is today because it was not a purely capitalist institution/industry--it survived because the owners who doing the best at the time realized that the survival of the weakest franchises was important to the viability and long-term success of the league as a whole and its profitability.

Owners like Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft (and a lot of other successful businessmen today) are too young and/or too arrogant to recognize that they owe something to the people whose shoulders they stand on (especially those who sarificed to build their industry) and that they are but one small slip from losing everything that they have.

I have no problems with Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft being wealthier than others or other owners or with them wanting teams around the league to try to maximize their revenues. But, I do have a problem with those who think that "he who dies with the most toys wins" and forget that everyone ends up in the same place and "you can't take it with you. Andrew Carnegie, Leland Stanford, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Henry Ford, etc. were smart enough to ultimately recognize this--even John D. Rockefeller finally came to see it as well. Who will care if they win and win and win, if, ultimately, they kill off the competition or the competition is so weak that their victory is hollow?

[YardRat]

Great post, LtBF.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

It should also be noted that the article pointed out that the Bills are not the only team in the league that has gone over to using a "cash to the cap" salary structure.

The fact is that the Bills weren't the first team to do this (when the Bills adopted this approach, it was noted in the Buffalo News at the time that Jacksonville had already decided to take that approach) and, as this article pointed out, more and more teams are using it.

While a lot of fans get very hyped up about free agents and it seems like almost everyone has a list of big-name free agents that they want the Bills to sign every off-season, what a lot of teams have discovered is that, very often, there is a reason why teams are willing to let certain players go as free agents rather than pay them--and that, in more than a few cases, it is not because the team doesn't have the money to re-sign the player.

Yes, there are some premium players who do hit the free agency market--either because they are unhappy with the city or team where they have been or because they feel that they can get significantly more money elsewhere or will have a better chance to win with another team. But, there are also players who hit the market who haven't played up to their reputations, who are selfish and only interested in themselves, who create problems in the lockerroom, etc. or who simply are replaceable because they aren't consistent or even that good.

There is a lot of competition for the services of a premium free agent who actually is a good player, but it isn't always the most money that the player is looking for--there are a lot of factors that go into where and why a free agent is willing to sign to play for a given team. Last offseason is a good example: Joe Jurevicious and Eric Steinbach both wanted to play in their hometown with the Cleveland Browns and Adalius Thomas took less money to sign with the Patriots because he wanted to have a shot at winning a Super Bowl.

I just hope that people will keep this in mind once the free agency period starts this offseason.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

My single BIGGEST problem with Wilson isn't his spending on players (though I admit I have a problem with that too). I mean he did spend a lot on the OL last yaer, he did sign off on overpaying the living hell out of Kelsay and Schobel.. I think he takes some shortcuts with other talent being released, traded or not resigned to recoup a lot of that money, but I do think for the "most part" he isn't scared to go out and sign some "big name" guys to help the team.

My BIG problem with Wilson is with the horrid frugalness he displays when it comes to hirings with his personnel. He's still living off Polian/Levy era, where he struck gold and got away with the cheap hires. We're consistently at the bottom of the league in pay for GM's, head coaches, coordinators, scouts, etc and that's the biggest reason we've been a perennial loser.

Promoting Brandon, Guy and Modrak is a complete and utter joke. These guys have only proven that they're consistent at fielding sub-par football teams. How does Guy, a person that has made some AWFUL NFL personnel decisions get a promotion? Modrak, who's prints have been on our draft since 2002, has more misses than hits. Brandon is an admitted Marketing guy, not a football mind-- yet they all get promoted?

As for Jauron; please. Nice guy, good teacher, probably is better suited for the college ranks or maybe a D.C. in the NFL (at best). He's a bad, scared and gun-shy game-day coach, and it is far from coincidence he's had one winning season out of eight. Yet he is getting a SUBSTANTIAL increase in authority?

The only decision I DO like is Turk at O.C. He's seen firsthand exactly HOW TO NOT run an offense; so I think he's a good hire.

With a nice young core of talent, this was WIlson's chance to have Levy ride off into the sunset and bring in a real GM; a GM that can build a winner. And this whole "chemistry" and "direction" thing is a huge crock of ****. That applies to teams that win! What is our goal, to have a 10-win season once before all these young stars become FA's and we lose most of them, and start all over again?

Our head coach is the same, and our O.C is from within and I"m fine with that. But for the love of God, bring in a GM who knows how to bring more TALENT and winning direction to this team.

So player signings aside, when it comes to the front office and the staff, Wilson is and will always be a cheap **********- and that more than the players is why we always lose.

Ralph Wilson's history doesn't entirely support your argument on this, Pat:

The Bills first HC, Buster Ramsey, had won a NFL championship with Detroit, but he did nothing in Buffalo. Lou Saban won two AFL championships with the same front office.

Wilson also hired John Rauch, who had just led the Oakland Raiders to the Super Bowl. Rauch was so brilliant that he tried to convert OJ Simpson into a WR. Saban came back and OJ, with the help of "The Electric Company", rushed for over 2,000 in a season.

Wilson hired Chuck Knox, who had had a lot of success with the Rams, but Knox never got the Bills to a Super Bowl. One of the succession of HCs that followed Knox was the highly esteemed, big-name DC Hank Bullough. His Bills teams sucked.

Then, along came that little known HC with a losing record named Marv Levy and the Bills went to 4 straight Super Bowls. Bill Polian, who everyone praises as one of the greatest GMs of all time, came to the Bills as a little known talent evaluator who had worked for Levy in Montreal in the CFL--he certainly wasn't a big-time name or someone who had had a lot of success as a GM when Wilson hired him!

Wade Phillips, son of Bum Phillips, had been to the Super Bowl with the Denver Broncos. He was one of the "hot" names out there when Wilson hired him to coach the Bills. He, at least, took the Bills to the "Music City Travesty". John Butler had been Polian's assistant when Wilson hired him, promoting from within. And who knew who his assistant, AJ Smith, was at the time? Butler did a creditable job of starting to rebuild the Bills before he left for SD, but he and AJ Smith made their reputations as much after they left Buffalo as they did before. In that instance, promoting a virtual unknown from within certainly worked out better than most of Wilson's big-name hires from outside of the organization.

And, there's no better example of that than Tom Donahoe and Gregg Williams. Donahoe was seen in many circles around the league as the personnel genius who had helped B.Cowher build the Pittsburgh Steelers into a Super Bowl team. Donahoe was a big name in the NFL and the media when Wilson brought him in to be President of the Bills and handed him virtually complete control over the team. And, Gregg Williams, whose defense had led the Titans to within a yard of winning the Super Bowl against the seemingly unstoppable Rams, was the "hottest" young DC/OC head coaching candidate when the Bills hired him. Mike Mularkey was a big-name young coach, too, when Donahoe hired him a couple of years later. And, how did those three big-name hires work out???

Aside from Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells--who were never going to come to Buffalo for any amount of money--and Joe Gibbs--who only returned to the Redskins because D.Snyder begged him to restore the franchise to its former glory and paid him a ton of money--and Ron Wolf--who has consistently maintained that he is going to stay retired since leaving Green Bay--just what big-name HCs or GMs would you have had R.Wilson hire? Mike Sherman? After interviewing all over the place, he ended up taking an OC job in Houston: is it possible that there is a reason why he wasn't give/didn't take a HC job somewhere where he interviewed?

The fact is that, over the years, Ralph Wilson has hired some of the bigger names out there at the time to coach the Bills and to have a say in the front office. And, a lot of those hires haven't worked out very well for him or the team. He has also gone with some lesser names, some virtual unknowns, and promoted from within. And, while that hasn't always worked out (K.Stephenson, J.Jones, H.Johnson-although Johnson helped to build the Bills championship teams as GM), he's also had somewhat more success doing that (Saban, Polian, Levy, Butler, AJ Smith) than he has with bringing in big-names from the outside (Ramsey, Rauch, Knox, Donahoe, Williams, Mularkey).

While I share your nervousness--a nervousness that I think all Bills fans feel--about whether the restructuring of the Bills' front office that has just taken place will work out well and produce a winning team on the field that is capable of ultimately winning a Super Bowl any time soon, I don't think it is entirely fair to say that the Bills have been bad because Ralph Wilson has been too cheap to hire big name coaches or front office personnel--not when Wilson and the team have had more success in the past when he has hired unknowns or promoted from within and have had more failures when he has brought in big names from the outside.

Again, I don't know if this group is going to be able to turn the Bills into a Super Bowl winner (I have very serious doubts about Jauron's "in game" coaching abilities), but, given the history of the unknowns that Wilson has hired in the past, both as HCs and in the FO, I think it is only fair to give them a chance to show what they can do in the positions that they are in now. And, I will.

If they fail, then, I will get on their case and Wilson's. But, they have not failed yet. And, they very well could end up succeeding. Saban and Levy and Polian (I can't even begin to tell you how upset I was when the Bills hired Polian and especially Levy!!!--but what did I know at the time?!?) and Butler did--maybe this group can succeed as well.

P.S.: If there is one thing that I will DEFINITELY criticize Wilson for it is for not being smart or able enough to keep the good people that he has hired as coaches and in the front office when he has found them. Saban (even though he later returned), Polian and Butler all did not leave the Bills on good terms and I have to blame Ralph Wilson, at least in part, for that (I can understand why he fired Polian, but I also see it as part of a very bad pattern on his part). But, that hasn't been about Wilson being cheap. That was much more personal than monetary.

[Ebenezer]

Ralph Wilson's history doesn't entirely support your argument on this, Pat:

The Bills first HC, Buster Ramsey, had won a NFL championship with Detroit, but he did nothing in Buffalo. Lou Saban won two AFL championships with the same front office.

Wilson also hired John Rauch, who had just led the Oakland Raiders to the Super Bowl. Rauch was so brilliant that he tried to convert OJ Simpson into a WR. Saban came back and OJ, with the help of "The Electric Company", rushed for over 2,000 in a season.

Wilson hired Chuck Knox, who had had a lot of success with the Rams, but Knox never got the Bills to a Super Bowl. One of the succession of HCs that followed Knox was the highly esteemed, big-name DC Hank Bullough. His Bills teams sucked.

Then, along came that little known HC with a losing record named Marv Levy and the Bills went to 4 straight Super Bowls. Bill Polian, who everyone praises as one of the greatest GMs of all time, came to the Bills as a little known talent evaluator who had worked for Levy in Montreal in the CFL--he certainly wasn't a big-time name or someone who had had a lot of success as a GM when Wilson hired him!

Wade Phillips, son of Bum Phillips, had been to the Super Bowl with the Denver Broncos. He was one of the "hot" names out there when Wilson hired him to coach the Bills. He, at least, took the Bills to the "Music City Travesty". John Butler had been Polian's assistant when Wilson hired him, promoting from within. And who knew who his assistant, AJ Smith, was at the time? Butler did a creditable job of starting to rebuild the Bills before he left for SD, but he and AJ Smith made their reputations as much after they left Buffalo as they did before. In that instance, promoting a virtual unknown from within certainly worked out better than most of Wilson's big-name hires from outside of the organization.

And, there's no better example of that than Tom Donahoe and Gregg Williams. Donahoe was seen in many circles around the league as the personnel genius who had helped B.Cowher build the Pittsburgh Steelers into a Super Bowl team. Donahoe was a big name in the NFL and the media when Wilson brought him in to be President of the Bills and handed him virtually complete control over the team. And, Gregg Williams, whose defense had led the Titans to within a yard of winning the Super Bowl against the seemingly unstoppable Rams, was the "hottest" young DC/OC head coaching candidate when the Bills hired him. Mike Mularkey was a big-name young coach, too, when Donahoe hired him a couple of years later. And, how did those three big-name hires work out???

Aside from Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells--who were never going to come to Buffalo for any amount of money--and Joe Gibbs--who only returned to the Redskins because D.Snyder begged him to restore the franchise to its former glory and paid him a ton of money--and Ron Wolf--who has consistently maintained that he is going to stay retired since leaving Green Bay--just what big-name HCs or GMs would you have had R.Wilson hire? Mike Sherman? After interviewing all over the place, he ended up taking an OC job in Houston: is it possible that there is a reason why he wasn't give/didn't take a HC job somewhere where he interviewed?

The fact is that, over the years, Ralph Wilson has hired some of the bigger names out there at the time to coach the Bills and to have a say in the front office. And, a lot of those hires haven't worked out very well for him or the team. He has also gone with some lesser names, some virtual unknowns, and promoted from within. And, while that hasn't always worked out (K.Stephenson, J.Jones, H.Johnson-although Johnson helped to build the Bills championship teams as GM), he's also had somewhat more success doing that (Saban, Polian, Levy, Butler, AJ Smith) than he has with bringing in big-names from the outside (Ramsey, Rauch, Knox, Donahoe, Williams, Mularkey).

While I share your nervousness--a nervousness that I think all Bills fans feel--about whether the restructuring of the Bills' front office that has just taken place will work out well and produce a winning team on the field that is capable of ultimately winning a Super Bowl any time soon, I don't think it is entirely fair to say that the Bills have been bad because Ralph Wilson has been too cheap to hire big name coaches or front office personnel--not when Wilson and the team have had more success in the past when he has hired unknowns or promoted from within and have had more failures when he has brought in big names from the outside.

Again, I don't know if this group is going to be able to turn the Bills into a Super Bowl winner (I have very serious doubts about Jauron's "in game" coaching abilities), but, given the history of the unknowns that Wilson has hired in the past, both as HCs and in the FO, I think it is only fair to give them a chance to show what they can do in the positions that they are in now. And, I will.

If they fail, then, I will get on their case and Wilson's. But, they have not failed yet. And, they very well could end up succeeding. Saban and Levy and Polian (I can't even begin to tell you how upset I was when the Bills hired Polian and especially Levy!!!--but what did I know at the time?!?) and Butler did--maybe this group can succeed as well.

P.S.: If there is one thing that I will DEFINITELY criticize Wilson for it is for not being smart or able enough to keep the good people that he has hired as coaches and in the front office when he has found them. Saban (even though he later returned), Polian and Butler all did not leave the Bills on good terms and I have to blame Ralph Wilson, at least in part, for that (I can understand why he fired Polian, but I also see it as part of a very bad pattern on his part). But, that hasn't been about Wilson being cheap. That was much more personal than monetary.
post of the month

[Ebenezer]

If Wellington Mara and, yes, the much-maligned around here, Ralph Wilson Jr. both had this attitude that you are expressing in all of your posts on this thread, the NFL would not be the league or the financial gold-mine that it is now and the AFL would never have survived long enough to effect the merger with the NFL that produced the Super Bowl (which, in turn, has produced most of the top 10 highest rated television events and generated billions in business, raising the value of the NFL's franchises significantly).

In the late 1950s, the NY Giants generated more radio and television revenue than all of the other NFL franchises combined. The Giants also produced more local revenue than a handful of other franchises. Even with a draft and no free agency, the Giants were generating enough money to allow them to dwarf the other team in the league on the field as well as off.

Wellington Mara was not a stupid man. He recognized what the situation was. And, he could have kept all of the money that his franchise was generating and, using just some of it, built a team that would win the NFL title every year (if he had wanted, he could have paid enough to bring Brooklyn-bred V.Lombardi or T.Landry, both former Giants' assistants back to be head coach of the team).

But, unlike today's "hurray for me and to hell with everyone else"-style capitalists, Mara also recognized that, if he kept all of the money that the Giants were generating and buiilt a dynasty in New York, ultimately, it would kill off the league as teams like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, etc. would perish. Instead, Mara gave up his preeminent financial position in the league and got the other owners to agree to negotiate a national television deal to replace their local TV deals, with all of the teams in the league sharing those revenues. Doing so not only allowed teams like the Packers, Cardinals and Steelers to survive, but allowed the league to expand to Minnesota and back into Dallas (where the league had failed in the mid-1950s!!!).

The AFL owners, seeing what Mara's arrangement had done for the NFL, adopted a similar arrangement when they negotiated their first national television deal. Bud Adams, Lamar Hunt and Barron Conrad--all of whom were flush with cash and owned franchises in areas capable of generating a lot more than the other teams in the league--could have used the initial success of their teams, which had won the AFL's first champinships, to push for inclusion in the NFL without the acceptance of the rest of the franchises in the league--that was what had happened with the old All-America Football Conference in 1950. But, they chose to share league revenues early on to keep teams like Denver and Oakland afloat.

As we now know, when the Oakland Raiders were about to go bankrupt in the mid-1960s, which would have killed the AFL and ended any chance of the league coming to an agreement with the NFL to have all of its teams absorbed into the NFL, Ralph Wilson Jr. helped Al Davis take over the team and gave it an infusion of cash and talent that allowed the Raiders to go on to become the iconic franchise that it became in the early 1970s and 1980s. The Bills were AFL champions at the time and doing quite well financially, despite playing their games at the old "Rockpile". There was a pretty good chance that, if any AFL teams were absorbed into the NFL if the AFL folded, the Bills would have been one of them. Wilson could have could have let the Raiders fold and taken his chances with getting the Bills into the NFL. But, seeing further than the immediate benefits to his own pocketbook, Wilson put up the cash and players that saved the Raiders and led to the AFL-NFL merger. And, without the merger, there is no Super Bowl.

Now, think about that for a moment.

Without sharing the revenues from a national television deal, professional football probably does not survive as a major sport. If it does, it doesn't generate enough national interest to surpass the popularity of college football because it is limited to a handful of big cities and the networks are not interested in promoting it.

If the AFL does not survive, there is no Super Bowl, just a NFL Championship Game. With the NFL having virtually the same structure that it had in the 1960s, pro football continues to run a distant second to major league baseball as the national sport and has to struggle to compete with baseball because it doesn't have a premier television event to broadcast like the World Series.

If the owners in the NFL and AFL in the late 1950s and 1960s were the kind of "pure" capitalists that Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft are and think that NFL owners should be allowed to be, there would be no Dallas COwboys or New England Patriots for them to own--because those franchises wouldn't even exist in the NFL.

So, enough with this Adam Smith capitalism argument! (Those who believe in Adam Smith capitalism should go and read some of Charles Dickens' works to find out just what kind of society that kind of capitalism produces.) The NFL is what it is today because it was not a purely capitalist institution/industry--it survived because the owners who doing the best at the time realized that the survival of the weakest franchises was important to the viability and long-term success of the league as a whole and its profitability.

Owners like Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft (and a lot of other successful businessmen today) are too young and/or too arrogant to recognize that they owe something to the people whose shoulders they stand on (especially those who sarificed to build their industry) and that they are but one small slip from losing everything that they have.

I have no problems with Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft being wealthier than others or other owners or with them wanting teams around the league to try to maximize their revenues. But, I do have a problem with those who think that "he who dies with the most toys wins" and forget that everyone ends up in the same place and "you can't take it with you. Andrew Carnegie, Leland Stanford, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Henry Ford, etc. were smart enough to ultimately recognize this--even John D. Rockefeller finally came to see it as well. Who will care if they win and win and win, if, ultimately, they kill off the competition or the competition is so weak that their victory is hollow?
superb!!

[don137]

So a few small market teams get knocked off the map, it happens every day to small businesses in the real world. It's not something that you or I can fix so there's no point worrying about it. All we can do is continue to support the team by going to the games and spending our hard earned money and just hope for the best. Wilson has really put us all in a bind by not selling the team while he's still breathing and it may come back to bite us in the ass.

The league was built on revenue sharing. To maximize the popularity (aka revenue) of the league it is good to have more teams. This is why they expanded the league. The real world example does not apply to the NFL. Each team needs the others to help maximize revenue.
The big teams NEED the little teams to help maximize the popularity of the league. If the small & some mid-size market teams got knocked off like the real world as you say do you think the league will be as successfull and popular tomorrow? Answer, no. Many fans on this site said they will lose interest in the NFL if they lost the Bills. If 10-12 teams can no longer compete and go defunct how will this help maximize revenue for the league and the big teams? There will be less people watching football on TV, less media coverage due to less teams, less advertising dollars for the league resulting getting less money from in the TV contracts thuse hurting the big teams.

[Romes]

LBF's post should have a quick intro and title slapped on then sent directly to the front page.

[Buffatexas]

LBF's post should have a quick intro and title slapped on then sent directly to the front page.

I agree!!!

[ParanoidAndroid]

That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.

That really is despicable......"it's not moral but it's the American way." Evil Empire is right on.
The NFL has been successful with that socialist aspect of revenue sharing. Once that is weakened, the disparity in the league will become parity concentrated into a few franchises. In other words, sheer boredom much like the NBA.

[gr8slayer]

That really is despicable......"it's not moral but it's the American way." Evil Empire is right on.
The NFL has been successful with that socialist aspect of revenue sharing. Once that is weakened, the disparity in the league will become parity concentrated into a few franchises. In other words, sheer boredom much like the NBA.
Point well taken.

[madness]

Ralph was simply man enough to stand up and tell everyone that the emperor was naked. When you start with labor costs that are 59% of revenues, and then add in all of your other costs, there isn't going to be much profit left.

But of course Ralph was vilified for having the courage to state what was obvious to a lot of other owners, as well.

It's also a display of courage for these first group of owners to admit they should have thought this through before they opened their mouth.

Recalling all the Ralph bashing threads on the CBA and 'cash to cap'... it's a reality we rarely see in the BBZ.

[blackonyx89]

Ralph was simply man enough to stand up and tell everyone that the emperor was naked. When you start with labor costs that are 59% of revenues, and then add in all of your other costs, there isn't going to be much profit left.

But of course Ralph was vilified for having the courage to state what was obvious to a lot of other owners, as well.

In this case,he's crazy........like an old fox!!!!!

[Bill Cody]

post of the month

Let me know when the "Cliff Notes" version comes out and I'll read it.

[madness]

Mr. Wilson's busy week

<TABLE borderColor=#09347b cellPadding=10 width="95%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=mediumrow style="BORDER-RIGHT: #548bb5 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #548bb5 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #548bb5 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #548bb5 1px solid" colSpan=2><TABLE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #002d78 1px solid" width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>Today
</TD><TD align=right>Posted By: Chris Brown | Time: 3:23 PM ET | Link (http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=2877)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>MR. WILSON’S BUSY WEEK: Bills owner Ralph Wilson is going to have one busy weekend come the first weekend in March. On March 7<SUP>th</SUP> he’ll be in Atlantic City to accept the Francis J. (Reds) Bagnell Award for Contributions to the Game of Football as part of the Maxwell Awards, where Bills tight end Kevin Everett will also be honored.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
Then the next day <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City> will be honored in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Kansas City</st1:place></st1:City> where the Committee of 101 has just announced that he, along with Titans owner Bud Adams and Barron Hilton will receive the inaugural Lamar Hunt Award for Professional Football. It’s a new award created to honor the life and legacy of the late Kansas City Chiefs owner and given in recognition of visionary leadership that has helped the NFL become the preeminent pro sports league in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">America</st1:place></st1:country-region>. So the first ever award will go to the group of original American Football League pioneers known as “The Foolish Club.”
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[YardRat]

Let me be the first to throw this out there...

From this point on, the zoner award "Best BillsZone Poster" should be re-named "The LifetimeBillsFan Award".