When is it good coaching and when is it great players

[chernobylwraiths]

You look at coaches who are considered very good to great, and there seems to be pattern with most of them.

Marv Levy was a good coach until he got Kelly, Thomas, Reed, Smith, etc.

Bruce Dehaven was always considered a great special teams coach until Mark Pike and Steve Tasker retired, then we had "forward lateral".

Non Bills
Chuck Noll had Bradshaw, Swan, Harris, Stallworth, Greene, Lambert, etc. etc.

Bill Walsh had Montana, Rice, Lott, etc

Belechick has Brady, Bruschi

I understand that they have to evaluate the talent and get the right personel in there, but that is not all their doing either. Consider that if Bledsoe hadn't been almost killed by Mo Lewis, the Patriots might not have their dynasty.

So, is it the coaches who make the players great, or do the players make the coaches look like geniuses.

I think it is mostly the players and having a coach who knows how to use the players he has to their greatest advantage. The Bills of the early 90s would have been nothing had Levy and to a lesser extent Marchibroda realized that it would be to their advantage to let Kelly call his own plays. (except maybe in that first superbowl). But, you gotta have great players to win.

[Jan Reimers]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

Great players generally make great coaches.

Occasionally, though, a great coach - with lesser talent - can beat a superior team, as Parcells did in SB XXV.

[YardRat]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

Get both on your team and you don't have to worry about which one is the bigger factor.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

Talent wins.

How many star players are on the Bills roster? I rest my case.

[Meathead]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

thank you cher and jan for making my points

ive said many times coaching is generally overrated. i say generally because coaches often get far too much credit for a good run when its really the talent on their team that is the deciding factor. sure there are exceptions and coaching does definitely make a difference but a coach isnt suddenly a genius when his talent loaded team does well even though previous coaching stints by the same guy were failures

let me put it this way i would definitely rather have a world class scouting department and a mediocre coach than the other way around. definitely

[Meathead]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

and its different for a bad coach. bad coaches are a much bigger factor. a bad coach can mess up a team loaded with talent. so it doesnt work on the other end of that spectrum

[chernobylwraiths]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

Well, converesly bad coaching can make even good to very good players look bad.

[gr8slayer]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

It's good coaching when your team is down by 21 points going into the 4th quarter and you some how manage to take the win.

On the other side of things it's good coaching when you're up by 3 going into the forth quarter and manage to hold the opposition and you win by 3 or more.

[TedMock]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

It's both. You can't win without good players, but the most talented team in the world can certainly lose with bad coaching. A head coach has to have the respect of his players no matter what, or he loses. Teams, talented or not, show respect for the coach by playing hard until the bitter end. I think Jauron has this particular attribute. We've seen teams fight and lose, but fight regardless and we've seen teams flat-out fold over the years. The old cliche is that takes a good coach to get a bunch of primadona's to actually play a team game. I have to believe that's true on some level. Lastly, (and this is where I think Jauron has struggled to date) a good head coach has to hire good assistant coaches. Assistants play all sorts of roles and they're all necessary. Some are there for motivating players and some are there for their X's and O's ability.

[bigbub2352]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

A Coach is only as good as his players, just look at all the ups and downs of the careers of all the greastest coaches in all professional sports

[TacklingDummy]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

A Coach is only as good as his players, just look at all the ups and downs of the careers of all the greastest coaches in all professional sports

Joe Torre before the Yankees.

Lou Pinella with Reds, Seattle, goes to Tampa, back with Cubs.

Marv Levy in KC, Marv Levy in Buffalo

Bellicheck in Cleveland, Bellicheck in NE.

Jimmy Johnson in Dallas, Jimmy Johnson in Miami

Barry Switzer in Dallas, Barry Switzer no where else.

Phil Jackson with, Jordan/Pippen or Shaq/Kobe...Jackson without Jordan/Pippen or Shaq/Kobe.

etc...

Talent wins.

The reason the Bills have not been winning is due more to lack of talent.

[L.A. Playa]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

I know alot of people will disagree with this but I always believed the Bills of the early 90's had the best talent of any team in NFL history, what stopped them from being the best team in NFL history was they didnt have great coaching.

I believe this was proven by them getting outcoached in every Super Bowl they played, now I know that this wont be a popular opinion in this forum but I wil lalways believe it to be true

[madness]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

You obviously want some sort of balance between the two but good coaching can push a player that is borderline good/great to the great side and turn the avg. player into a useful role player.

It doesn't, though, work the other way around. Great players can make a avg. or below avg coach look good but it won't be long until the team suffers because of the lack of quality coaching.

[bigbub2352]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

I know alot of people will disagree with this but I always believed the Bills of the early 90's had the best talent of any team in NFL history, what stopped them from being the best team in NFL history was they didnt have great coaching.

I believe this was proven by them getting outcoached in every Super Bowl they played, now I know that this wont be a popular opinion in this forum but I wil lalways believe it to be true

Couldnt agree more my firend alot of people in Buffalo dont want to believe it but Marv let that team run wild before those games, ala Thurman forgettin his helmet , and all the coke parties thorwn at Kelly's club downtown and at his night club in his basement, was one of the big reason we didnt show up in the super bowls against washington, and both against dallas,

Levy was always hailed about his teams, but know one ever criticizes him for losing 4 in a row

[Bill Cody]

Re: When is it good coaching and when is it great players

Talent wins.

How many star players are on the Bills roster? I rest my case.

Seriously match our roster with NE's. There's very few guys they'd take of ours over what they have. Belichick would not be considered any genius if he had our roster to work with and that's a fact.