Please Do Not Compare Eli to

[ParanoidAndroid]

JP! Just don't even try it. Good night. Thank you very much. The End!

[TacklingDummy]

Or JP to Ben.

Or JP to Rivers.

Face it, we got the crappy QB in 2003.

[hydro]

But... But... he has a cannon arm!

[chernobylwraiths]

But... But... he has a cannon arm!

And he can run!

[Meathead]

well it took quite a while for the light to come on and in fact it didnt until late this season

it just shows you that sometimes a guy struggles and looks like he will never turn the corner then all of a sudden bam they do. perfect example

not saying jp would or wouldnt, will or wont, but it is a fact that you just never know. thats why guys get multiple chances, thats why somebody is sure to give him a chance again, and is why if at all possible i would prefer he could stick around here. doubt he will tho

[YardRat]

I was really hoping we could go one day without a JP thread.

[BillsPride12]

I hate to admit it but as I was watching Eli stay poised throughout the entire game and put together the game winning drive I thought to myself Losman would never have the mental capacity to pull this off, gutsy performance by Eli tonight! And oh yeah I didn't wanna talk about JP tonight but since you brought it up first ;)

[don137]

The difference is Eli matured into an NFL QB ...JP never matured...

[Philagape]

who?

[TacklingDummy]

That was an awesome play Eli and Tyree made during the last drive. It has to rank up there as one of the best plays in Super Bowl history.

[djjimkelly]

and that note too JP is only one to never have a decent coach of that class either

[Michael82]

well it took quite a while for the light to come on and in fact it didnt until late this season

it just shows you that sometimes a guy struggles and looks like he will never turn the corner then all of a sudden bam they do. perfect example

not saying jp would or wouldnt, will or wont, but it is a fact that you just never know. thats why guys get multiple chances, thats why somebody is sure to give him a chance again, and is why if at all possible i would prefer he could stick around here. doubt he will tho
:bf1:

[Meathead]

The difference is Eli matured into an NFL QB ...JP never matured...
two huge duhs here

duh 1

yeah thats the point. but if you were to make this observation six games ago you would have to say eli 'never' matured either. you get it now?

duh 2

eli has played every game and never been yanked, never even had the risk of being yanked, and never got injured. and that was despite sucking just as bad as jp did early in his career, eli was frikken brutal many times. jp has had all those things happen and thus missed a lot of games and thus a lot of development

up until about six games ago eli looked no better than jp. maybe with those approximately fifteen or so additional games the lights would go on for jp like they did for eli

[SquishDaFish]

In case you missed it our season has been over. Last night was Giants - Cheaters not Bills

[Historian]

I think last night showed why the Bills aren't even a .500 team.

They simply don't have that big WR making plays in the middle.

Instead, we draft dwarf WRs that run a 4.1 40. That's a 1980's philosophy.

Which is about where Ralph is mentally, I suppose.

[Night Train]

I think last night showed why the Bills aren't even a .500 team.

They simply don't have that big WR making plays in the middle.

Instead, we draft dwarf WRs that run a 4.1 40. That's a 1980's philosophy.

Which is about where Ralph is mentally, I suppose.

That's one point

We also SIMPLY don't have a D that can stop anybody in the running game and bring pressure in the passing game.

Oh, those annoying minor points.

We can correct the receiver problem this off-season with a tall WR and TE. The D problem is up to the coaches. If that's not corrected, then three 6-8 WR's won't mean a damn thing.

[Historian]

Sure....I just think the WR position is glaring, because it's such a high profile position.

[Typ0]

I was talking to a licker last night right before the game and it took him all of about ten seconds to turn it into a JP shoulda coulda woulda thing. Pathetic.

[Confused]

JP is the crap qb of the 04 draft.
we got shat on.

[kernowboy]

Its irrelevant.

At the time, we were not going to move up to 1st or 4th or even to get Ben. We picked up Losman who for a variety of reasons did not work out. Undoubtedly awful coaching is pretty high up there, but that could go for several players

We now have Edwards who may also not work out.

It will be interesting to see if we draft a QB in this years draft and indeed which round he might be tabbed. Someone like Ainge, Flacco or O'Connell in the 4th will prove interested

Personally I see us to taking the QB of the future in 2009 as I don't think Edwards is long term starter material

[ghz in pittsburgh]

:bf1:
We got some football IQ here, people. I bet you'd say to the world I'd rather have JP than Eli to be my QB.

[ddaryl]

well it took quite a while for the light to come on and in fact it didnt until late this season

it just shows you that sometimes a guy struggles and looks like he will never turn the corner then all of a sudden bam they do. perfect example

not saying jp would or wouldnt, will or wont, but it is a fact that you just never know. thats why guys get multiple chances, thats why somebody is sure to give him a chance again, and is why if at all possible i would prefer he could stick around here. doubt he will tho


at least a couple of people posting on Billszone have some sense of understanding.

Eli has been irratic since the day the Giants traded for him. His numbers have been terrible and lower then JP's, but the difference being is the Giants stuck with him for those years, and all of a sudden the lightbulb goes off and Eli leads the Giants to the Superbowl.


it's going to suck in 2-3 years when we're looking for yet another QB because the one we took a chance on didn;'t develope fast enough for us again.

[djjimkelly]

at least a couple of people posting on Billszone have some sense of understanding.

Eli has been irratic since the day the Giants traded for him. His numbers have been terrible and lower then JP's, but the difference being is the Giants stuck with him for those years, and all of a sudden the lightbulb goes off and Eli leads the Giants to the Superbowl.


it's going to suck in 2-3 years when we're looking for yet another QB because the one we took a chance on didn;'t develope fast enough for us again.



bottom line bills completely mismanaged JP in fact they have mismanaged the whole roster. we never keep our own high profile free agents. we roll out 5'9 wrs we refuse to get a decent TE we think its ok to roll out 225 pound LBs. we also dont have a CB sniffing 6 feet. i know im a broken record add in our coaches have been atrocious since WADE i do at this point think getting rid of GREG was a massive mistake even though at that time i wanted him gone but now that ive seen what we try to replace him with we should have stuck with him.

but its a hell of alot easier to bag on JP then to truly look at the sum of the whole.

and when u do that you truly see our team has been run like **** with no real direction. we act like we are a farm system and when we win 6 or 7 games people act like we are going in the right direction everytime. i wont be fooled again! its just as likely that we go into being a 4 win team as we go into being a 10 win team.

this managment team is trying to hit lightning in a bottle with the massive rotation at QB, RB and so on. that will never work. now dont take that i add in RB as a slight on lynch becuz i truly think we hit a home run on him.

i have to end this on our coaches blow and have for over a decade and probably will for another decade till ralph brings in legit football men to run the team not a bunch of guys he isnt scared to have around.

[Oaf]

The difference is Eli matured into an NFL QB ...JP never matured...
That is an awful post. Sorry to call you out like that, but JP was dangled in and out of the lineup like wildly ineffective bait since he got here. Some argue that he played himself out of the position; well just look at Eli, he has been atrocious at times over the last 4 years. And the one season JP did start consistently, just happened to be his best ending up with an 85 rating. :scratch: Hmm..

Look at Manning's situation in NY. Since he was drafted, for better and much, MUCH worse, he continued to start every single game. In many of those games, including this year's game against us, he played worse than what would be tolerable to you guys. (Which really isn't saying much.)

Simply put, if JP went to the G-Men and got the time and patience they afforded to Eli, it is VERY possible that he could have, not should have, duplicated the success if not done better earlier. Because of that, it IS worth the comparison Andy.

[hydro]

i know im a broken record add in our coaches have been atrocious since WADE i do at this point think getting rid of GREG was a massive mistake even though at that time i wanted him gone but now that ive seen what we try to replace him with we should have stuck with him.

Who is to say that you aren't wrong now with DJ?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

at least a couple of people posting on Billszone have some sense of understanding.

Eli has been irratic since the day the Giants traded for him. His numbers have been terrible and lower then JP's, but the difference being is the Giants stuck with him for those years, and all of a sudden the lightbulb goes off and Eli leads the Giants to the Superbowl.


it's going to suck in 2-3 years when we're looking for yet another QB because the one we took a chance on didn;'t develope fast enough for us again.

I challenge you to look at the tapes Eli Manning's compared to Losman's, right from tthe beginning of their career. I know someone who works for a Pittsburgh based scouting firm who does services to NFL teams that told me Eli has a pretty sound game from the beginning of his career. He's not as gifted as his brother, and makes some odd mistakes (no different from Bret Favre from time to time), but overall, he's a solid QB. He may have a little more rich kid's attitude (unlike the goofy country image his brother portraits), and he plays in NYC where every little mistake is magnified. There is reason he started his career making playoffs left and right.

The same just cannot be said for Losman, whose game is very uneven and flawed in many NFL circles. He woos you with one thing, but so many other little things, even some basic stuff, just never developed, even into the 4th year in the league.

[Philagape]

The Giants stuck with Manning because the alternative was Jared Lorenzen.

And as GHZ pointed out, Eli hasn't been that bad in his career. Better than JP. Certainly more clutch.

[djjimkelly]

Who is to say that you aren't wrong now with DJ?


i'm sorry im no where near wrong on this one. i wish i had an ounce of doubt. and to me the biggest issue with DJ being around is another year of drafting for a shceme that i know is gonna be gone in 2009 on D


also read what i wrote again considering what we have tried to replace him with he wasbetter dont mean he would be best choice i just think mularky and jauron are that bad jauron especially i know people dont want to hear it but hes the worst coach we have had in the 25 years ive followed the bills. id rather have mularky back becuz at least then we would have a better scheme on D

[ParanoidAndroid]

That is an awful post. Sorry to call you out like that, but JP was dangled in and out of the lineup like wildly ineffective bait since he got here. Some argue that he played himself out of the position; well just look at Eli, he has been atrocious at times over the last 4 years. And the one season JP did start consistently, just happened to be his best ending up with an 85 rating. :scratch: Hmm..

Look at Manning's situation in NY. Since he was drafted, for better and much, MUCH worse, he continued to start every single game. In many of those games, including this year's game against us, he played worse than what would be tolerable to you guys. (Which really isn't saying much.)

Simply put, if JP went to the G-Men and got the time and patience they afforded to Eli, it is VERY possible that he could have, not should have, duplicated the success if not done better earlier. Because of that, it IS worth the comparison Andy.

I love being called out.

I suppose, then, we should also compare Rob Johnson to Eli. Rob Johnson showed flashes and played pretty well a couple of times. We should have given him more time. He was managed about the same way JP has been.

Should have, could have.......bottom line is....he didn't.

I don't know if you were watching this year, but JP was abysmal and Edwards comes in and looks better right away.

JP had his chance. He doesn't get it. Maybe, 10 years from now, he can play for the Redskins and win 3 or 4 games in a row. Yay Todd Collins!

If it is a simple case of mismanagement, then the NFL has lost out on a couple hundred QB's who "never got their chance."

[gr8slayer]

To be fair Eli has also had better talent around him (Tiki, Jacobs, Shokey, Toomer, Burress) and a hell of an OL.

Losman has had none of that. But why are we even talking about this? Losman is out, Edwards is in.

[yordad]

I suppose you are comparing the supporting cast of the Giants, Charges, and Steelers to that of the Bills? And, I suppose you decided that all things were equal except for the QBs?

I think JP is better than Rivers or Manning. And, given their situation, he would have performed better than either.

Flame on.

[Mudflap1]

Well, we never had any good offensive coaches here, I agree with that. I mean, that list starts with Kevin Gilbride, right?

Oops.

Let's start moving on to an argument that holds water. Manning has been to the playoffs three times and won a Super Bowl MVP. Losman couldn't hold his jock, much less read a defense or be under control.

Jon

[yordad]

I love being called out.

I don't know if you were watching this year, but JP was abysmal and Edwards comes in and looks better right away.
Well, in that case, let me help you out....
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=143374

[83evans]

and that note too JP is only one to never have a decent coach of that class either



Coach of the year canidate. Gilbride OC of Giants. Coughlin fighting for job. Turner. Need I say more??????????

[83evans]

bottom line bills completely mismanaged JP in fact they have mismanaged the whole roster. we never keep our own high profile free agents. we roll out 5'9 wrs we refuse to get a decent TE we think its ok to roll out 225 pound LBs. we also dont have a CB sniffing 6 feet. i know im a broken record add in our coaches have been atrocious since WADE i do at this point think getting rid of GREG was a massive mistake even though at that time i wanted him gone but now that ive seen what we try to replace him with we should have stuck with him.

but its a hell of alot easier to bag on JP then to truly look at the sum of the whole.

and when u do that you truly see our team has been run like **** with no real direction. we act like we are a farm system and when we win 6 or 7 games people act like we are going in the right direction everytime. i wont be fooled again! its just as likely that we go into being a 4 win team as we go into being a 10 win team.

this managment team is trying to hit lightning in a bottle with the massive rotation at QB, RB and so on. that will never work. now dont take that i add in RB as a slight on lynch becuz i truly think we hit a home run on him.

i have to end this on our coaches blow and have for over a decade and probably will for another decade till ralph brings in legit football men to run the team not a bunch of guys he isnt scared to have around.




Edwards wasnt that bad.

[83evans]

To be fair Eli has also had better talent around him (Tiki, Jacobs, Shokey, Toomer, Burress) and a hell of an OL.

Losman has had none of that. But why are we even talking about this? Losman is out, Edwards is in.



Tikis gone,Lynch is better than Jacobs, Evans is better than Toomer, our line is way better than Giants. Anything else?

[gr8slayer]

Edwards wasnt that bad.
One TD every five games won't cut it, I don't care what team you play for. Edwards has more to prove this year than any QB in the league due to his horrible performance this past season. I hope he comes through or we'll be talking about a new QB next season and I'm tired of that.

[gr8slayer]

Tikis gone, Jacobs<Lynch, Evans><LYNCH, Evans>Toomer, our line> theres. Anything else?
We're talking about the body of work as a whole. Do you think that Losman was given the same chance to succeed that Eli was given? If you do let me know where you live and I'll go hit you over the head with a tack hammer.

[83evans]

[quote=andyxc71]I love being called out.

I don't know if you were watching this year, but JP was abysmal and Edwards comes in and looks better right away.
quote]Well, in that case, let me help you out....
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=143374


Biggest difference. Trent 3rd round pick. Never got the bulk of the snaps. Rookie. Still is almost as good as JP. Also he plays like a National Football League QB. JP, 1st round pick, 4 year, JP plays like a Not For Long QB.

[shelby]

At what point in time do people stop comparing everything that happens in the NFL to JP Losman's situation?

Just curious.....

[djjimkelly]

Well, we never had any good offensive coaches here, I agree with that. I mean, that list starts with Kevin Gilbride, right?

Oops.

Let's start moving on to an argument that holds water. Manning has been to the playoffs three times and won a Super Bowl MVP. Losman couldn't hold his jock, much less read a defense or be under control.

Jon


A) gilbride never here when JP was

B) giants made playoffs as an 8-8 team a couple times in an inferior conference.

C) after what 50 games he finally started to look the part something JP was never ever given a real shot at. JP went thru dumahoe trying to save his job with a few wins JAURON doing same thing this year(and dont kid yourself JP having a 5 mil roster bonus for 50% of the snaps in year 4 had alot to do with move this year)

[djjimkelly]

At what point in time do people stop comparing everything that happens in the NFL to JP Losman's situation?

Just curious.....


the same time u admit coy wire shouldnt be in the nfl let alone ever starting a game for bills

:couch:

[Typ0]

At what point in time do people stop comparing everything that happens in the NFL to JP Losman's situation?

Just curious.....

try everything that happens in the universe!

[ParanoidAndroid]

To be fair Eli has also had better talent around him (Tiki, Jacobs, Shokey, Toomer, Burress) and a hell of an OL.

Losman has had none of that. But why are we even talking about this? Losman is out, Edwards is in.

Because I was half drunk, made a hasty thread and now that I see what happened, I have learned that the dumbest thread I have ever srarted has also earned me the most ZB's. So, why not keep it going, right? The stinkiest $#!* catches the most flies. :peace:

[Michael82]

At what point in time do people stop comparing everything that happens in the NFL to JP Losman's situation?

Just curious.....
when he finally proves on another team with a better coach and cast around him that he still can't do it. If JP ever goes somewhere else and succeeds, watch out. People will be out in full force *****ing about the whole thing and saying I told you so.

[Michael82]

Just for the record....Eli Manning has 40-50 starts before the light finally clicked for him. JP Losman only had like 33 total starts. :yawn:

[83evans]

A) gilbride never here when JP was

B) giants made playoffs as an 8-8 team a couple times in an inferior conference.

C) after what 50 games he finally started to look the part something JP was never ever given a real shot at. JP went thru dumahoe trying to save his job with a few wins JAURON doing same thing this year(and dont kid yourself JP having a 5 mil roster bonus for 50% of the snaps in year 4 had alot to do with move this year)





Believe me, JP is not worth waiting for.

[gr8slayer]

Believe me, JP is not worth waiting for.
Do elaborate.

[yordad]

Biggest difference. Trent 3rd round pick. Never got the bulk of the snaps. Rookie. Still is almost as good as JP. Also he plays like a National Football League QB. JP, 1st round pick, 4 year, JP plays like a Not For Long QB.
Sounds like you managed to read about a quarter of the original post of the thread I gave you. :good job:

[Philagape]

Just for the record....Eli Manning has 40-50 starts before the light finally clicked for him. JP Losman only had like 33 total starts. :yawn:

That's enough. Especially since he regressed from 2006 despite the same system and a better line. A lot of us thought his light went on then, but it went back out.

Drafting Trent may have shortened JP's leash, but that's the way it is. Too bad. As long as Trent develops into a good QB, I don't care in the least what JP does anywhere else. I've always likened him to Plummer, and I still do. I won't cry over losing a Plummer.

[jmb1099]

I'm satisfied giving Edwards a shot, and Losman didn't do himself any favors.
That being said is there one person here that thinks our receiving corps matches up with the Giants receivers? No one would make that claim. Is there anyone here who wants to try to convince me that our oline wasn't putrid for years? Losman lost his job because of poor play, no question. But to try to insinuate that supporting cast didn't contribute in some form or fashion is beyond goofy. Here's a prediction for you... if we don't seriously upgrade our receiving corps you'll be ready to run Edwards out of town next season.

[djjimkelly]

Just for the record....Eli Manning has 40-50 starts before the light finally clicked for him. JP Losman only had like 33 total starts. :yawn:


mikey add in the fact they arent grouped together either like i said earlier too many agendas in buffalo trying to save money save jobs and so on.

he started 16 games in a row in 2006 and ended up as a top 10 qb go figure

[djjimkelly]

I'm satisfied giving Edwards a shot, and Losman didn't do himself any favors.
That being said is there one person here that thinks our receiving corps matches up with the Giants receivers? No one would make that claim. Is there anyone here who wants to try to convince me that our oline wasn't putrid for years? Losman lost his job because of poor play, no question. But to try to insinuate that supporting cast didn't contribute in some form or fashion is beyond goofy. Here's a prediction for you... if we don't seriously upgrade our receiving corps you'll be ready to run Edwards out of town next season.


im already ready becuz he is a never will be. has nothing to do with JP.

im ready to draft a qb in 1st round again this year.

[justasportsfan]

lets compare Trent instead to Eli.... I'll be waiting for the excuses.

[dannyek71]

he actually reminded me alot of TE in that game

[jmb1099]

im already ready becuz he is a never will be. has nothing to do with JP.

im ready to draft a qb in 1st round again this year.

Based on psychic ability? Gut instinct? Miss Cleo? Edwards may never be anything, but there is no way to know that based on a handful of games in his rookie season. Don't forget he played in the same lousy system with the same receivers Losman did.

[Mudflap1]

50 starts compared to 33? How about Manning's team going 11-5 in his first full year as starter and winning the division? When did that happen for the Bills with Losman? I don't care how bad you think Manning was until this season, he had to have at least been serviceable for the team to go 11-5 and win the division, with the Eagles who went to the Super Bowl the previous season.

Losman is a bust. Get over it, and let's move on. Yes, Manning has better talent around him overall, but this team has had some talent also while Losman has been here. Heck, the Bills were 9-7 the year before Losman took over. He's got no excuses, he can't read a defense and can't get the job done.

You guys wallering around in the mediocrity is exactly the reason why this franchise sucks and will probably move to Toronto within five years.

Jon

[gr8slayer]

50 starts compared to 33? How about Manning's team going 11-5 in his first full year as starter and winning the division? When did that happen for the Bills with Losman? I don't care how bad you think Manning was until this season, he had to have at least been serviceable for the team to go 11-5 and win the division, with the Eagles who went to the Super Bowl the previous season.

Losman is a bust. Get over it, and let's move on. Yes, Manning has better talent around him overall, but this team has had some talent also while Losman has been here. Heck, the Bills were 9-7 the year before Losman took over. He's got no excuses, he can't read a defense and can't get the job done.

You guys wallering around in the mediocrity is exactly the reason why this franchise sucks and will probably move to Toronto within five years.

Jon
I don't care who the QB is, until we get serious about upgrading our talent on the offensive side of the ball we're going to be drafting a new one every three years. Edwards is ****ed if we don't get some upgrades in here quick.

[jmb1099]

I don't care who the QB is, until we get serious about upgrading our talent on the offensive side of the ball we're going to be drafting a new one every three years. Edwards is ****ed if we don't get some upgrades in here quick.
What he said

[Mudflap1]

I don't think our offensive talent is that far off from New York oddly... their line is a bit better than ours, our running back is better, their tight ends are better, and their wide receivers are better, but we have some guys at WR that can play too. We need another couple receivers, and the C should be upgraded. But it's not the difference from J.P. being a bum compared to Manning leading his team to the playoffs three years in a row and winning the Super Bowl MVP this year.

Jon

[gr8slayer]

I don't think our offensive talent is that far off from New York oddly... their line is a bit better than ours, our running back is better, their tight ends are better, and their wide receivers are better, but we have some guys at WR that can play too. We need another couple receivers, and the C should be upgraded. But it's not the difference from J.P. being a bum compared to Manning leading his team to the playoffs three years in a row and winning the Super Bowl MVP this year.

Jon
What the hell games have you been watching?

Burress > Evans

Shockey > Royal

Toomer > Price, Reed, Parrish

Giants OL >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bills OL

Barber, Jacobs, Bradshaw > McGahee, Lynch

It's not even close man, please don't let your hatred for Losman get in the way of the facts. If we do not upgrade quick we will be having this same conversation next year but we'll be replacing the word "Losman" with the word "Edwards."

We don't have a damn thing on our Offense that they don't equal or have better, the only thing that comes even close to being an exception is Peters and that is even arguable and Lynch is a close call.

[TacklingDummy]

What the hell games have you been watching?

Burress > Evans

Shockey > Royal

Toomer > Price, Reed, Parrish

Giants OL >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bills OL

Barber, Jacobs, Bradshaw > McGahee, Lynch

It's not even close man, please don't let your hatred for Losman get in the way of the facts. If we do not upgrade quick we will be having this same conversation next year but we'll be replacing the word "Losman" with the word "Edwards."

We don't have a damn thing on our Offense that they don't equal or have better, the only thing that comes even close to being an exception is Peters and that is even arguable and Lynch is a close call.

Have you ever compared the talent Peyton Manning had to work with compared to the talent Ryan Leaf had to work with?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Eli had 11 4th quarter comebacks in 4 seasons of regular season, PLAYOFFS and SUPER BOWL games. That's a fact!

[gr8slayer]

Have you ever compared the talent Peyton Manning had to work with compared to the talent Ryan Leaf had to work with?
That would be a valid argument. Then again, SD gave up on him too early. Are you trying to say that I'm wrong about Eli having more talent?

[Wally The Barber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii7tpYa4UYQ

[Mudflap1]

The Giants have a better team, yes, but the Bills have had the ability to win games, and Losman hasn't gotten it done. How can you argue against this? Geez, what games have you been watching to even remotely suggest Eli Manning and J.P. Losman should be brought up in the same sentence together?

Jon

[gr8slayer]

The Giants have a better team, yes, but the Bills have had the ability to win games, and Losman hasn't gotten it done. How can you argue against this? Geez, what games have you been watching to even remotely suggest Eli Manning and J.P. Losman should be brought up in the same sentence together?

Jon
Oh shut up, until the play-offs this year there wasn't a person in America who didn't question Eli as a legitimate QB.

[yordad]

The Giants have a better team, yes, but the Bills have had the ability to win games, and Losman hasn't gotten it done. How can you argue against this? Geez, what games have you been watching to even remotely suggest Eli Manning and J.P. Losman should be brought up in the same sentence together?

JonYou can't even believe this garbage.

[yordad]

What does this mean? It is in my "User CP"

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt2>http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</TD><TD class=alt1Active id=p2316531 width="50%">Please Do Not Compare... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2316531#post2316531)</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>02-05-2008 04:00 PM</TD><TD class=alt1 width="50%">Your blind faith in JP is astonishing. :shakno:</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[gr8slayer]

What does this mean? It is in my "User CP"

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt2>http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</TD><TD class=alt1Active id=p2316531 width="50%">Please Do Not Compare... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2316531#post2316531)</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>02-05-2008 04:00 PM</TD><TD class=alt1 width="50%">Your blind faith in JP is astonishing. :shakno:</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
It means that someone has given you negative reputation.

[yordad]

It means that someone has given you negative reputation.Do you know how I find out who? Or, how it effects me?

[Mudflap1]

Eli Manning (in case you haven't heard) is the brother of All-Pro QB Peyton Manning and son of Heisman Trophy-winning QB Archie Manning. That's a pretty good pedigree. So yes, I thought there was a good chance Eli would pan out, not that he was that bad to begin with the last couple years. He was putting up points earlier in the year.

What has Losman done, at all? Yes, the Bills as a whole are mediocre, but Losman continuously has played badly as the Bills QB.

The point is, if Losman was truly Manning's equal, with guys like Lynch, Evans, and an okay offensive line, he should've been putting up SOME points. Not saying the Bills would be in the playoffs or averaging 28 points a game, but SOME points. Instead, he couldn't score against Denver, he couldn't score against NE, Pittsburgh, JAX, etc. And this is continuous of his tenure here. Time to cut bait. The guy is athletic, but the coaches wouldn't even allow him to call audibles in his FOURTH YEAR! What does that tell you?

You guys need to get your head out of the sand and stop killing the messenger. J.P. Losman is a bust and shouldn't be even remotely compared to Eli Manning. It's an insult to football fans everywhere.

Jon

[yordad]

OK people. I didn't know it was standard to neg rep people on well thought out different opinions. I provided a link filled with facts, and you neg me based on "blind faith". I would really love to learn who on here feels the need to neg rep different opinions. Anyone on here care to own up? Mudflap1? Forward_Lateral? Anyone? Don't mean to specifically call anyone out, but I'd like to hear from you two.

[gr8slayer]

Do you know how I find out who? Or, how it effects me?
It won't affect you at all, just your reputation count. It's likely one of the QB Nazi's around here. Some people just can't stand other people's opinions. Usually if they don't have the balls to sign their rep it's just one of the trolls.

[gr8slayer]

Eli Manning (in case you haven't heard) is the brother of All-Pro QB Peyton Manning and son of Heisman Trophy-winning QB Archie Manning. That's a pretty good pedigree. So yes, I thought there was a good chance Eli would pan out, not that he was that bad to begin with the last couple years. He was putting up points earlier in the year.

What has Losman done, at all? Yes, the Bills as a whole are mediocre, but Losman continuously has played badly as the Bills QB.

The point is, if Losman was truly Manning's equal, with guys like Lynch, Evans, and an okay offensive line, he should've been putting up SOME points. Not saying the Bills would be in the playoffs or averaging 28 points a game, but SOME points. Instead, he couldn't score against Denver, he couldn't score against NE, Pittsburgh, JAX, etc. And this is continuous of his tenure here. Time to cut bait. The guy is athletic, but the coaches wouldn't even allow him to call audibles in his FOURTH YEAR! What does that tell you?

You guys need to get your head out of the sand and stop killing the messenger. J.P. Losman is a bust and shouldn't be even remotely compared to Eli Manning. It's an insult to football fans everywhere.

Jon
Congratulations, you are the only person in America who knew that Eli would amount to being a Super Bowl QB. You are an animal.

[yordad]

Eli Manning (in case you haven't heard) is the brother of All-Pro QB Peyton Manning and son of Heisman Trophy-winning QB Archie Manning. That's a pretty good pedigree. So yes, I thought there was a good chance Eli would pan out, not that he was that bad to begin with the last couple years. He was putting up points earlier in the year.

What has Losman done, at all? Yes, the Bills as a whole are mediocre, but Losman continuously has played badly as the Bills QB.

The point is, if Losman was truly Manning's equal, with guys like Lynch, Evans, and an okay offensive line, he should've been putting up SOME points. Not saying the Bills would be in the playoffs or averaging 28 points a game, but SOME points. Instead, he couldn't score against Denver, he couldn't score against NE, Pittsburgh, JAX, etc. And this is continuous of his tenure here. Time to cut bait. The guy is athletic, but the coaches wouldn't even allow him to call audibles in his FOURTH YEAR! What does that tell you?

You guys need to get your head out of the sand and stop killing the messenger. J.P. Losman is a bust and shouldn't be even remotely compared to Eli Manning. It's an insult to football fans everywhere.

JonSo... Manning would have played better in this offense, under the circumstances JP played under? Your reply is crazy.

[jmb1099]

Holy crap.
No one is saying Losman is as good as manning except the usual suspects. My point is simply this: until we get some quality receivers here it won't matter who is calling the signals. Other than Sam, only good for special teams Aiken, do we even have a receiver over 6'?
We improved the line, that's great and that was step one. But if anyone thinks we can succeed with the receivers we have now you need to think again.

[83evans]

What the hell games have you been watching?

Burress > Evans

Shockey > Royal

Toomer > Price, Reed, Parrish

Giants OL >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bills OL

Barber, Jacobs, Bradshaw > McGahee, Lynch

It's not even close man, please don't let your hatred for Losman get in the way of the facts. If we do not upgrade quick we will be having this same conversation next year but we'll be replacing the word "Losman" with the word "Edwards."

We don't have a damn thing on our Offense that they don't equal or have better, the only thing that comes even close to being an exception is Peters and that is even arguable and Lynch is a close call.




What makes you think that NYs OL is better? If anything we're equal. Also Lynch is better than Jacobs. In the beginning you only had Barber and Jacobs. And if I remember correctly, barbers retired. Also Evans is better than Toomer but not burress. Name 10 who are. One more thing, Lynch over Jacobs any days of the year.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The Bills' O-line gave up 2 fewer sacks than the Giants during the regular season.

[Mudflap1]

Congratulations, you are the only person in America who knew that Eli would amount to being a Super Bowl QB. You are an animal.

Thank you very much for the recognition! Much appreciated! :)

Jon

[gr8slayer]

ok so according to you all our offense is just as good as NYG. Then Edwards isn't the answer either based on his performance this year. Let's just draft a QB in the first round for our Super Bowl caliber offense.

It's settled, our offense is Super Bowl material, you heard it here first on www.billszone.com/fanzone

[Mudflap1]

So... Manning would have played better in this offense, under the circumstances JP played under? Your reply is crazy.

Great point. Yes, I think Manning would've performed better in this offense than Losman. I think any professional analyst would probably agree.

Does anybody think that J.P. Losman would be the Super Bowl MVP and have led his team to 3 straight playoff years if he was on the Giants? Please...

Jon

[gr8slayer]

Great point. Yes, I think Manning would've performed better in this offense than Losman. I think any professional analyst would probably agree.

Does anybody think that J.P. Losman would be the Super Bowl MVP and have led his team to 3 straight playoff years if he was on the Giants? Please...

Jon
Ok, well since our offense is Super Bowl caliber in your eyes then Manning would have been the Super Bowl MVP with us too. We need you in the front office.

[Losman4Life]

JP! Just don't even try it. Good night. Thank you very much. The End!

There is no comparison, JP is the better QB anyway and we would have made the superbowl with him if Trent ****** Edwards had been on the bench where the loser belongs!

[gr8slayer]

There is no comparison, JP is the better QB anyway and we would have made the superbowl with him if Trent ****** Edwards had been on the bench where the loser belongs!
Ok, now you're being equally ******ed.

[Losman4Life]

Or JP to Ben.

Or JP to Rivers.

Face it, we got the crappy QB in 2003.

JP is going to be a superstar in this league. I can't wait until all you haters shut your mouth...we'll see who's laughing next year!

[gr8slayer]

JP is going to be a superstar in this league. I can't wait until all you haters shut your mouth...we'll see who's laughing next year!
I'm not a "hater" and I agree with TD's post. Whether Losman is better than Edwards is yet to be seen but better than Ben or Eli? Not so much, Rivers on the other hand........

[83evans]

There is no comparison, JP is the better QB anyway and we would have made the superbowl with him if Trent ****** Edwards had been on the bench where the loser belongs!


Quick, 7 great things about JP. Here are 7 for Ed

1. Quick realese
2. Accuracy
3. Doesnt wait till a DB is in front of the WR to throw the ball.
4. Smart and tries
5. If he makes a mistake, he comes back and doesnt.
6. A ROOKIE!!
7. Puts touch on throws.
8. (sorry theres a few more) Poise in pocket and steps up.
9. Spreads the ball (doesnt focus in on 1 player coJPugh)
10. Doesnt force the ball as much as JP.

YOUR TURN. Have fun :bandwagon

[83evans]

Ok, well since our offense is Super Bowl caliber in your eyes then Manning would have been the Super Bowl MVP with us too. We need you in the front office.




Why are turning everything around. No one said Manning would win the SB with us. We said we would be better with Manning. Also, no one said our O is better than NYG. We just said there are some parts of it that our. OL, 1 RB, WR(evans to toomer)

[gr8slayer]

Why are turning everything around. No one said Manning would win the SB with us. We said we would be better with Manning. Also, no one said our O is better than NYG. We just said there are some parts of it that our. OL, 1 RB, WR(evans to toomer)
Our OL is not better than NYG.

Evans is our number one, compared to Burress he's not even close. Compare our number two to theirs and you'll be singing a different tune.

Lynch is still a question mark and a rookie so we're even.

I get what you're trying to say and no one is really arguing with you except ONE person. Eli is a better QB than Losman but he also has had a lot of the luxuries that not many QB's get to have. He hasn't gone through coaching changes and OC changes either. No offense but to say that our offense is even remotely close to theirs is ignorant.

[83evans]

Our OL is not better than NYG.

Evans is our number one, compared to Burress he's not even close. Compare our number two to theirs and you'll be singing a different tune.

Lynch is still a question mark and a rookie so we're even.

I get what you're trying to say and no one is really arguing with you except ONE person. Eli is a better QB than Losman but he also has had a lot of the luxuries that not many QB's get to have. He hasn't gone through coaching changes and OC changes either.


I think the OL could go either way. Depends on what way you look at it. Pass prot or run prot. We are better Pass prot but not run. Also in blue, you have to look at Leinart, Kitna, David Carr, Jake Delhomme, and Grossman. Some QBs cant work with/without a Team around them.

[gr8slayer]

I think the OL could go either way. Depends on what way you look at it. Pass prot or run prot. We are better Pass prot but not run. Also in blue, you have to look at Leinart, Kitna, David Carr, Jake Delhomme, and Grossman. Some QBs cant work with/without a Team around them.
You know what's sad? All those QB's you just mentioned (minus Grossman) have more talent around their QB than Losman/Edwards have around them.

[83evans]

You know what's sad? All those QB's you just mentioned (minus Grossman) have more talent around their QB than Losman/Edwards have around them.


Yep that was the point, and they still suck.

[gr8slayer]

Yep that was the point, and they still suck.
So let me ask you; you clearly think much higher of our offense than I do. Let's assume that we don't draft any offensive players and don't pick up any players in FA for the offense (sadly this is completely possible for our team :ill:) what do you project that Edwards' major statistics will be?

[83evans]

So let me ask you; you clearly think much higher of our offense than I do. Let's assume that we don't draft any offensive players and don't pick up any players in FA for the offense (sadly this is completely possible for our team :ill:) what do you project that Edwards' major statistics will be?


Listen. He will not be great if no changes happen but not horrible either. From all 32 QBs in the NFL, He would rank 21. Here is a possiblity for this year. FA- Wilford
FA- Gray qb
FA- gary baxter


1. Trade to 16-17- Kieth Rivers(gets a 3rd)
2. DT
3. Trade 4th and next year 7th for Stallworth
3. TE
5. C
5. FB
6. S/CB
7. DE
7. G

[Mudflap1]

I never said Manning would be Super Bowl MVP on the Bills. All I said was he would perform better than Losman, which, by the way, is probably not that difficult to do. Take for instance, Kelly Holcomb performing better than Losman, or rookie QB Trent Edwards. Imagine would a REAL quarterback like Manning would do? Not saying Super Bowl, not even saying playoffs, just saying he would be better than Losman, and significantly better.

Get your facts straight and stop misquoting people. You used to have some credibility with your posts. What happened?

Jon

[gr8slayer]

Listen. He will not be great if no changes happen but not horrible either. From all 32 QBs in the NFL, He would rank 21. Here is a possiblity for this year. FA- Wilford
FA- Gray qb
FA- gary baxter


1. Trade to 16-17- Kieth Rivers(gets a 3rd)
2. DT
3. Trade 4th and next year 7th for Stallworth
3. TE
5. C
5. FB
6. S/CB
7. DE
7. G
That all sounds great but as I've posted several times with link the Jags plan on re-signing Wilford.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Baxter hasn't played in almost two years due to injury and is aging.

Stallworth will cost us more in $ than we'll be willing to spend.

Gray would be nice but I doubt it.

[gr8slayer]

I never said Manning would be Super Bowl MVP on the Bills. All I said was he would perform better than Losman, which, by the way, is probably not that difficult to do. Take for instance, Kelly Holcomb performing better than Losman, or rookie QB Trent Edwards. Imagine would a REAL quarterback like Manning would do? Not saying Super Bowl, not even saying playoffs, just saying he would be better than Losman, and significantly better.

Get your facts straight and stop misquoting people. You used to have some credibility with your posts. What happened?

Jon
You are being dishonest with yourself, Edwards was horrid this year.

And saying that Manning would do better with our team than Losman isn't saying much but to say that our talent surrounding our QB is even remotely close is just flat out wrong.

You continue to go at Losman but you refuse to admit that he wasn't really given much of a chance to succeed. People knew coming out of college that he was a raw talent that needed some major coaching, him going through different coaches and coordinators didn't help. Mularkey did him no favors naming him the starter and then taking him out in the first five weeks.

Are you going to sing the same tune if Edwards gets pulled in favor of Brad Johnson in week four (or whoever we decide is going to be our number two?)

My credibility still lives, people just can't handle the truth sometimes. Truth is, we are a horrible offense and no QB is going come in here and do anything until we get serious about making some changes.

[yordad]

Listen. He will not be great if no changes happen but not horrible either. From all 32 QBs in the NFL, He would rank 21. Here is a possiblity for this year. FA- Wilford
FA- Gray qb
FA- gary baxter


1. Trade to 16-17- Kieth Rivers(gets a 3rd)
2. DT
3. Trade 4th and next year 7th for Stallworth
3. TE
5. C
5. FB
6. S/CB
7. DE
7. G
Do you really think it will take three picks to get Stallworth? No, and no thanks. I thinks the pats would be willing partners for way less. They are stacked at WR, and they are about to franchise Moss. Besides, Roy Williams for a second would be a much better choice IMO. That said, I think you are wrong. If I had time I would compare Eli to JP for you, using actual facts and stats. Not that it would change anyones made up mind.

[yordad]

Oh, and to clarify, I think you are wrong about JP, not Edwards. I think Edwards will be good. I just think JP will be better.

[gr8slayer]

Oh, and to clarify, I think you are wrong about JP, not Edwards. I think Edwards will be good. I just think JP will be better.
That could happen but it really won't matter to us because Losman is done for in Buffalo.

[Mudflap1]

You are being dishonest with yourself, Edwards was horrid this year.

And saying that Manning would do better with our team than Losman isn't saying much but to say that our talent surrounding our QB is even remotely close is just flat out wrong.

You continue to go at Losman but you refuse to admit that he wasn't really given much of a chance to succeed. People knew coming out of college that he was a raw talent that needed some major coaching, him going through different coaches and coordinators didn't help. Mularkey did him no favors naming him the starter and then taking him out in the first five weeks.

Are you going to sing the same tune if Edwards gets pulled in favor of Brad Johnson in week four (or whoever we decide is going to be our number two?)

My credibility still lives, people just can't handle the truth sometimes. Truth is, we are a horrible offense and no QB is going come in here and do anything until we get serious about making some changes.

I agree changes need to be made on offense. My point is there is still enough talent between an "okay" offensive line, a good running back, and a good wide receiver to be able to put up "some" points, as opposed to "little to no" points, which is where Losman got us. Seven points at home in Week One versus Denver for the offense? Come on, that's ridiculous.

For the record, I'm not a big Edwards guy either. He did okay for a rookie, but regressed at the end of the year. I'm not sold on him either.

Jon

[gr8slayer]

I agree changes need to be made on offense. My point is there is still enough talent between an "okay" offensive line, a good running back, and a good wide receiver to be able to put up "some" points, as opposed to "little to no" points, which is where Losman got us. Seven points at home in Week One versus Denver for the offense? Come on, that's ridiculous.

For the record, I'm not a big Edwards guy either. He did okay for a rookie, but regressed at the end of the year. I'm not sold on him either.

Jon
If you go on statistics alone Edwards actually did get better at the end of the year, granted he padded his stats a lot with that game against the Dolphins but none the less. His first six games though he had one TD, rookie or not there are few guys who can do that and be regarded as the "future" of any team. BTW, Losman didn't throw a TD in week one against the Broncos, that was Lynch.

I'm not one that buys into the rookie argument, if you aren't ready to play you shouldn't be out there unless the team has no choice due to injuries, Edwards clearly wasn't ready.

This all goes back to what I've been saying all season; I don't trust either one of them and frankly I wish we had another option but we don't so I'll back whoever is under Center every Sunday.