That 12 men call

[Mr. Miyagi]

Bellichick challenged that 12 men on the field call, but no flags were thrown to start with. I didn't realize that you could challenge a call that was not made.

Could you throw the red flag and tell the officials to review a holding call that wasn't called as well? Were the rules bent last night?

[MikeInRoch]

Yes, you can challenge a call that was not made. I've seen that exact scenario play out during the regular season. No rules were bent.

[Mr. Miyagi]

If that's the case I would expect to see a lot more challenges on offensive holding calls, or pass interference calls that weren't called. But I don't, not once.

[TacklingDummy]

I always thought you couldn't challenge a play and make it into a penalty. That challenge had me confused.

[imbondz]

If that's the case I would expect to see a lot more challenges on offensive holding calls, or pass interference calls that weren't called. But I don't, not once.

you can't challenge a holding call

[imbondz]

or a pass interference call

[Mr. Miyagi]

I always you couldn't challenge a play and make it into a penalty. That challenge had me confused.
Me too. That's why I asked.

[Dr. Lecter]

You can challenge 12 men.

You can't challenge other penalties.

[Jeff1220]

It makes a little bit of sense since 12 men on the field is a concrete thing - there's either 12 or there isn't. Holding and PI are both calls that require a certain amount of judgment/subjectivity on the part of the officials.

[Spiderweb]

You can challenge 12 men.

You can't challenge other penalties.

Maybe this should be called the "Cowher" rule. Anyone remember him a number of years ago protecting a 12 men on the field call against the Steelers! He even ran up to the official afterward and showed in pictures. There were only 11. Maybe that's also where the idea for that recent commercial came from, the one where the Football official apologizes for blowing a call, but promises to the make up for it in the second half by penalizing the other team for no good reason....

[DraftBoy]

PI and Holding are objective calls that are non-reviewable as its up to the officials own determination to make the call. Twelve men on the field is not at all objective.

[ajsdx]

PI and Holding are objective calls that are non-reviewable as its up to the officials own determination to make the call. Twelve men on the field is not at all objective.

You mean to say subjective, but thanks for clarifying.

[northernbillfan]

I thought it was a pile of crap too but they got theirs in the end.

[Meathead]

and i thought for sure that was gonna turn the game. how many times have you seen the cheats take a situation like that and make it the turning point. usually they score within a couple plays and roll from there

extremely glad i was wrong on that one

[don137]

It is a garbage call because the player had not consequence on the play. What's the difference between a player running off the field and being on the field when the play starts and players going on to the field to get a better view of a kick off return or punt return which happens all the time. The players are on the field during the play in both situations but its never called when the player steps on the field to watch a play.

[Mr. Miyagi]

It is a garbage call because the player had not consequence on the play. What's the difference between a player running off the field and being on the field when the play starts and players going on to the field to get a better view of a kick off return or punt return which happens all the time. The players are on the field during the play in both situations but its never called when the player steps on the field to watch a play.
To be fair, Peyton Manning quick snaps the ball everytime he sees that.

[yordad]

Well, on the subject of being objective, couldn't they challange off sides, false starts, and other objective penalties?

[helmetguy]

That Cowher call was made be cause Cowher was the 12th man on the field, as best as I can recall. They showed a still, and right along the sideline was that 12th man (Cowher).

[Forward_Lateral]

You can challenge 12 men on the field. I believe Mularkey did it a few years ago while HC of Buffalo.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I understand why that penalty is challengable, if it's called and you want to dispute it.

What I'm sure about is whether you can challenge a call that wasn't made in the first place. No flag or game stoppage by the refs, yet Bellichick who didn't call a team timeout was able to challenge a non-call.

That, I think, is bogus.

[YardRat]

I agree with Miyagi...I've seen twelve-men challenges when the penalty flag is thrown to begin with, but never have I seen a challenge which purpose is to call a penalty that initially was missed on the field.

I'd like to see the actual rule that allows it.

[jmb1099]

I didn't think it was possible to challenge any non-call. I'm with Yard on this, I'd love to see the rule that would allow for this.

[Dr. Lecter]

I know I have seen it before.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I just sent Chris Brown an email. Maybe he could find out.

[Dr. Lecter]

<LI type=disc>Instant replay will be tested during the preseason in the nationally televised games. Three sideline variations will be tested, with the on-field officials reviewing the play -- no pressbox official. Each head coach was given a red flag to throw to indicate he wanted the play reviewed (max two reviews per half). The only plays subject to review are:
Scoring plays.
Sideline/end zone plays.
Number of players on the field.http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/index.nsf/Documents/0-rules

[Forward_Lateral]

This argument is ridiculous. You CAN challenge too many men on the field. If you couldnt', they wouldn't have allowed Bellicheck to do so. I've seen it once by Cower, and once by a Bills HC.