Would you remain a Buffalo Bills Fan if...

[Pride]

...in order to keep the team, half of the home games were played in Toronto?

4 in Buffalo
4 in Toronto

I honestly believe this is where we're headed. They wont take the whole team to Toronto, but I can see it being an even split in 4-6 years.

Would you remain a Bills fan?

[gr8slayer]

If we remained the "Buffalo Bills."

[Yasgur's Farm]

If we remained the "Buffalo Bills."yup

[THATHURMANATOR]

My initial reaction is no, but I would probably still be, however to a much lower degree. Also if we won the superbowl it just wouldn't be the same. I probably wouldn't get tickets and only casually watch them, instead of being the complete fanatic I am now.

[gr8slayer]

My initial reaction is no, but I would probably still be, however to a much lower degree. Also if we won the superbowl it just wouldn't be the same. I probably wouldn't get tickets and only casually watch them, instead of being the complete fanatic I am now.
I would still do everything I do now, I would actually consider ourselves lucky if that is the worst that happens to us.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would still do everything I do now, I would actually consider ourselves lucky if that is the worst that happens to us.
You wouldn't understand man. Its different for locals.

[gr8slayer]

You wouldn't understand man. Its different for locals.
Well you would still get four games a year and four other games would be an hour or two away. That's a lot better than all the games being an hour or two away logically.

[PIZ]

Ralph is always saying the "shrinking economy" blah blah blah. He says the Bills can't compete. If it is so dire, why in the world is the stadium still called Ralph Wilson Stadium? I'm sure there is a big sponsor out there willing to put up some $$$.

I am in the middle of Steeler and Bills country, but I could never imagine rooting for the Squeelers. I would 100% sure I would stay a fan, because I'm a fan of the players on the team, and not just the team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The team is making a lot of money.

[gr8slayer]

Ralph is always saying the "shrinking economy" blah blah blah. He says the Bills can't compete. If it is so dire, why in the world is the stadium still called Ralph Wilson Stadium? I'm sure there is a big sponsor out there willing to put up some $$$.

I am in the middle of Steeler and Bills country, but I could never imagine rooting for the Squeelers. I would 100% sure I would stay a fan, because I'm a fan of the players on the team, and not just the team.Surely this is a rhetorical question. If not the answer is that he's a greedy bastard.

[gr8slayer]

The team is making a lot of money.
Not as much as the rest of the NFL, that's the problem. If everything was peaches and cream there wouldn't be talk of moving the team.

[RedEyE]

I would if it would to remain 50/50, but that just won't happen.

[Wys Guy]

...in order to keep the team, half of the home games were played in Toronto?

4 in Buffalo
4 in Toronto

I honestly believe this is where we're headed. They wont take the whole team to Toronto, but I can see it being an even split in 4-6 years.

Would you remain a Bills fan?

If they're making money hand over fist and not having any difficulty selling out the place via season tickets like many of the other larger organizations in the NFL in Toronto, you can bet your 401K that the new owner will permanently relocate the team there.

$250/ticket? If that flies bye bye Buffalo. All this crying over the CFL up there is laughable.

Why wouldn't a new owner move the team entirely under such circumstances? Wouldn't you after you remove your sentimental affinity for Buffalo from the mix, which would happen since it would be entirely a business decision. Why on earth would you even tinker with losing money, even on "half" your games down here? And what, we're gonna keep all the premier games and hand the meaningless end of season ones to Toronto? I also don't think that's gonna fly.

The NFL allowing this is the first step towards placing a team outside the U.S. and Toronto is that market and would embrace the Bills w/o question. It's the financial center of Canada much like NYC is for the U.S. and there's far more money up there than in WNY, even with assistance from Southern Ontario across the river.

[Mudflap1]

Not as much as the rest of the NFL, that's the problem. If everything was peaches and cream there wouldn't be talk of moving the team.

Wrong again! The Bills are consistently in the top half (if not top third) of the league in net operating income. I posted this about 10 times and naturally all of the "Bills are in a shrinking economy and Ralph isn't cheap, he's poor" people totally ignored it.

Jon

[Mudflap1]

If they're making money hand over fist and not having any difficulty selling out the place via season tickets like many of the other larger organizations in the NFL in Toronto, you can bet your 401K that the new owner will permanently relocate the team there.

$250/ticket? If that flies bye bye Buffalo. All this crying over the CFL up there is laughable.

Why wouldn't a new owner move the team entirely under such circumstances? Wouldn't you after you remove your sentimental affinity for Buffalo from the mix, which would happen since it would be entirely a business decision. Why on earth would you even tinker with losing money, even on "half" your games down here? And what, we're gonna keep all the premier games and hand the meaningless end of season ones to Toronto? I also don't think that's gonna fly.

The NFL allowing this is the first step towards placing a team outside the U.S. and Toronto is that market and would embrace the Bills w/o question. It's the financial center of Canada much like NYC is for the U.S. and there's far more money up there than in WNY, even with assistance from Southern Ontario across the river.

You are correct. I mean, read between the lines people!

Step 1: New Collective Bargaining agreement was signed. Ralph was one of the few who voted against it.

Step 2: Ralph whined to the government and NFL about how he has it so tough, and the "future" of the Bills in WNY was uncertain.

Step 3: Ralph is seen meeting with Roger Goodell.

Step 4: Roger Goodell is promoting international play, including overseas, but talking an awful lot about how Canada could be a possibility for the NFL.

Step 5: Bills are starting to play games in Toronto.

Step 6 (hasn't happened yet): If Toronto reception is strong, Bills permanently move to Toronto within next 5-7 years, or whenever Ralph passes, whichever happens first.

It's my belief that this is already a done deal, we just don't know about it yet. When it happens, you can thank Roger Goodell.

Jon

[Jan Reimers]

If we remained the "Buffalo Bills."
Me too.

And as a remote season ticket holder, it would cut my 12-hour drives each way, in half.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'd be sort of crushed but I visit family in Toronto on a yearly basis so I'll still have affiliation with the city.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You are correct. I mean, read between the lines people!

Step 1: New Collective Bargaining agreement was signed. Ralph was one of the few who voted against it.

Step 2: Ralph whined to the government and NFL about how he has it so tough, and the "future" of the Bills in WNY was uncertain.

Step 3: Ralph is seen meeting with Roger Goodell.

Step 4: Roger Goodell is promoting international play, including overseas, but talking an awful lot about how Canada could be a possibility for the NFL.

Step 5: Bills are starting to play games in Toronto.

Step 6 (hasn't happened yet): If Toronto reception is strong, Bills permanently move to Toronto within next 5-7 years, or whenever Ralph passes, whichever happens first.

It's my belief that this is already a done deal, we just don't know about it yet. When it happens, you can thank Roger Goodell.

Jon

Again I wish they would just get this **** over with. I can't handle it anymore.

[Wys Guy]

It's my belief that this is already a done deal, we just don't know about it yet. When it happens, you can thank Roger Goodell.

Jon

Siding with me Mudflap! A sure way to pariah-dom. LOL

I'd be interested in your source for operating income as well. BTW, do they define "operating income" as merely one facet of total net income? Sometimes things aren't broken down quite logically or "ready for media consumption" as it were. LOL

I've always thought that the overall net revenue on a per team basis, that the Bills ranked among the lower end teams, not true?

Either way, TV market drives it all, and there is no question that the Toronto market would be huge. We also have to factor in that as the first Canadian team in the NFL, and perhaps the only one down the road, that all of Canada now embraces that team too thereby increasing that market. The only analogy that can think of because the U.S. always does its own thing, is that if the U.S. placed a NY team in the British Premier League for soccer or the like.

As well, I don't think Wilson makes it 5-7. I think we're looking 2-4.

[Wys Guy]

Again I wish they would just get this **** over with. I can't handle it anymore.

The writing's on the wall Thurm.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Siding with me Mudflap! A sure way to pariah-dom. LOL

I'd be interested in your source for operating income as well. BTW, do they define "operating income" as merely one facet of total net income? Sometimes things aren't broken down quite logically or "ready for media consumption" as it were. LOL

I've always thought that the overall net revenue on a per team basis, that the Bills ranked among the lower end teams, not true?

Either way, TV market drives it all, and there is no question that the Toronto market would be huge. We also have to factor in that as the first Canadian team in the NFL, and perhaps the only one down the road, that all of Canada now embraces that team too thereby increasing that market. The only analogy that can think of because the U.S. always does its own thing, is that if the U.S. placed a NY team in the British Premier League for soccer or the like.

As well, I don't think Wilson makes it 5-7. I think we're looking 2-4.
I am with you on this one too. You are right on point unfortunately.

[Wys Guy]

Not much to say about it. Facts are facts.

Appreciate the nod however.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yep. :ill:

[Mudflap1]

Forbes magazine (certainly as credible a source as possible). As you can see, the Bills aren't terribly high in net revenue, but they are certainly near the top of the league in profitability (as exhibited by the operating income figures). The reason is becuase the Bills are basically a debt-free corporation. They are 9th in the NFL in debt/value ratio, but that is misleading because their value is at the lower end of the NFL, so that means their debt corporate-wide is really, really low, probably the lowest in the league:

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=bottom align=middle><TD class=headerow></TD><TD class=headerow>Team (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_MetroArea.html)</TD><TD class=headerow>Current Value ($mil) (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_Value.html)</TD><TD class=headerow>1-Yr Value Change (%) (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_YrChange.html)</TD><TD class=headerow>Debt/Value (%) (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_DOV.html)</TD><TD class=headerow>Revenue ($mil) (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_Revenue.html)</TD><TD class=headerow>Operating Income ($mil)</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Washington Redskins (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Washington-Redskins_300925.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>1,467 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>3 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>16 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>312 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>66.0 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Oakland Raiders (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Oakland-Raiders_300874.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>812 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>10 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>7 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>189 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>46.2 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Tampa-Bay-Buccaneers_306470.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>963 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>1 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>15 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>205 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>39.5 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Chicago Bears (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Chicago-Bears_301335.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>984 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>4 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>19 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>209 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>36.9 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Kansas-City-Chiefs_309072.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>960 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>7 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>14 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>196 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>35.2 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>New England Patriots (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_New-England-Patriots_307338.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>1,199 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>2 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>25 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>255 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>34.9 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Buffalo Bills (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Buffalo-Bills_301765.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>821 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>9 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>9 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>189 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>34.6 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>New York Jets (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_New-York-Jets_304841.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>967 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>10 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>67 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>193 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>26.4 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Houston Texans (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Houston-Texans_302019.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>1,056 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>1 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>28 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>225 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>25.9 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Philadelphia-Eagles_301623.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>1,052 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>3 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>17 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>224 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>25.7 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>New Orleans Saints (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_New-Orleans-Saints_309939.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>854 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>16 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>15 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>194 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>25.2 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Tennessee Titans (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Tennessee-Titans_308897.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>922 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>4 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>14 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>196 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>24.2 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Jacksonville-Jaguars_306892.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>811 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>9 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>14 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>189 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>22.1 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Cleveland Browns (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Cleveland-Browns_307074.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>969 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>0 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>10 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>206 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>20.6 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Green Bay Packers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Green-Bay-Packers_302814.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>927 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>2 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>4 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>197 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>20.3 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=rowcolor align=middle></TD><TD class=rowcolor noWrap>Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Pittsburgh-Steelers_305046.html)</TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>929 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>6 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>8 </TD><TD class=rowcolor align=right>198 </TD><TD class=highlight align=right>20.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[venis2k1]

...Goodell should be more concerned by Upshaw's calculated bombast from the previous day. The very real possibility that NFL owners, who feel the league's latest extension to the collective bargaining agreement has become too one-sided, will exercise their option to terminate the agreement in November is far more critical. Such a maneuver would lead to an uncapped season in 2009, with Upshaw saying that, once the salary cap genie has escaped the bottle, it won't be captured again.

The guess here is that if there's an issue that might keep Goodell awake at night, it's the labor agreement, not the contrived threats of Arlen Specter. ...

per espn.com

This is the real threat to the bills leaving, not playin a few games in Toronto. Its a scary though, but if the bills cant compete WITH a salary cap, we will become a perrenial 3-13 team without one. That is until the franchise moves to a more profitable area.

[Pride]

The NFL won't allow an uncapped year to take place. Uncapped NFL = no parity. No-Parity and half of the NFL's teams will close up shop, thereby making it a 16 team league again. Something the NFL does NOT want.

[TacklingDummy]

Not much to say about it. Facts are facts.



All I've read is opinions.

[gr8slayer]

Wrong again! The Bills are consistently in the top half (if not top third) of the league in net operating income. I posted this about 10 times and naturally all of the "Bills are in a shrinking economy and Ralph isn't cheap, he's poor" people totally ignored it.

Jon
I am clearly not one of those people, I've posted at least ten times that I think he's a greedy bastard who wants to be the only one to have ever owned the Bills in Buffalo, thus he won't sell the team and secure their spot while he's alive.

You realize that although Ralph is making money we don't contribute crap to the NFL right? Ralph is making money because he's always been a cheap ass, he has one of the older stadiums, he constantly hires cheap HC's, he rarely if ever signs elite talent. No **** he's making money, but how much of that money does the NFL as a whole actually see? How many viewers do you think Buffalo has week in and week out compared to the other teams in the league? Where do you think we rank in jersey sales? Merchandise as a whole? It's not all about what the team itself is making, if it wasn't making Ralph money he would have jumped ship long ago.

[Mudflap1]

I am clearly not one of those people, I've posted at least ten times that I think he's a greedy bastard who wants to be the only one to have ever owned the Bills in Buffalo, thus he won't sell the team and secure their spot while he's alive.

You realize that although Ralph is making money we don't contribute crap to the NFL right? Ralph is making money because he's always been a cheap ass, he has one of the older stadiums, he constantly hires cheap HC's, he rarely if ever signs elite talent. No **** he's making money, but how much of that money does the NFL as a whole actually see? How many viewers do you think Buffalo has week in and week out compared to the other teams in the league? Where do you think we rank in jersey sales? Merchandise as a whole? It's not all about what the team itself is making, if it wasn't making Ralph money he would have jumped ship long ago.

Wow, you just succinctly showed exactly why 1) The Bills are one of the NFL's most profitable teams, but not one of the NFL's most valuable teams (as seen in the Forbes report); and 2) Why the Bills will in all likelihood move to Toronto in the near future if the "test" games catch on in Toronto.

Good job. Seriously.

Jon

[JD]

What??

Why would it goto that??

What else do they use the ralph for???

It will be a waste keeping that place up and runing for four ****ing games a year. If it gets to a point where we have 12 games away from Buffalo i'm picketing, not like it would work or anything though.

[Gunzlingr]

So let me paraphrase what I have read on Ralph in this thread:

He is greedy because he won't sell the team, sell the stadium naming rights, or raise ticket prices. Ok - won't he be greedy if he did all those things to turn a quick buck?

This is more doom and gloom here than in a Disco Patti thread.

[Meathead]

somebody brilliant should do a poll (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=145450)

[HHURRICANE]

...in order to keep the team, half of the home games were played in Toronto?

4 in Buffalo
4 in Toronto

I honestly believe this is where we're headed. They wont take the whole team to Toronto, but I can see it being an even split in 4-6 years.

Would you remain a Bills fan?

Yes.

[im4bflo]

What about Kelly's secret rich friends who are going to save the day? :pray:
And if half the games were played in Toronto, but we were still the same Buffalo Bills like we are now, YES I'd still be a fan. But it's easier for me, since I'm an out of towner fan. If I was still a local, I'D HATE IT!

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I hate to say it, but Ralph is right to refer to Buffalo as a "town" with a dwindling population and jobs and to say that moving the Bills would destroy Buffalo--certainly as an entity in the national consciousness (without the Bills, Buffalo gets mentioned nationally no more than Akron).

But, instead of complaining about it, pissing and moaning about whether Ralph is or isn't making money, and saying that moving the Bills is inevitable, I'd like to see some of that energy and passion put into an effort to get Buffalo's economy turned around so that, instead of losing people and jobs, people and money start flowing back into the area. That means putting the feet of the local politicians and business interests in the area to the fire and demanding that they aggressively go out and pursue new industries and businesses and make deals (which will have to include giving tax breaks) to attract them to the area--with the threat that, if they do not do that, they will be lose their jobs at the next election or have their businesses boycotted (if they stand in the way of attracting new businesses to the area).

I'm sorry, but it is time for the people of WNY to stop sitting in a corner crying about how bad things are, focusing on their own narrow interests, and thinking small. It's way past time for them to start looking at the bigger picture, stand up and demand action from their local political and business leaders--and make sacrifices if necessary--to get the local economic situation turned around.

Other than the weather--which isn't that much different that in a lot of other cities--there is nothing wrong with the Buffalo area that can't be fixed by decisive and concerted political action and a willingness on the part of the business community to work to attract new businesses to the area. It just requires the will and the effort to get it done.

But, the action and effort needed to break the inertia that has gripped the politicians and business community for more than 30 years now isn't going to happen as long as local community leadership is allowed to continue to do nothing and the politicians feel that they can still get elected so long as they don't rock the boat and continue to appeal to the narrow self-interests of their constituents. The only way that they are going to make the effort and take the chances necessary to do what needs to be done is if the people in the area--their constituents and customers--DEMAND it and refuse to accept any excuses for not bringing new businesses and jobs to the area.

It comes down to this: If the jobs are there, the people will come. Period.

Ralph Wilson or whoever buys the Bills from his estate after he dies would not be interested in moving the Bills if the economy of the Buffalo area were robust and there were enough people and weath in the area to make moving to another city less attractive. In our society today--and the NFL is just a reflection of what is going on in society--it's all about the money, baby. That's what counts.

So, if you want the Bills to stay in the Buffalo area and don't want them to be moved, the solution is clear: if you live in the WNY area, instead of moaning about the inevitability of losing the team, get organized and demand that the local political and business leadership do what is necessary to get the economy in the area turned around. Don't accept excuses or failure--or settle for, "well he/she is good on X, Y or Z other things". If those in positions of power don't get the job done, replace them and keep replacing them until you find people who can and will get it done, regardless of party. And, just keep telling them, "It's the economy, stupid!"

If you have a business or want to start one and you want the Bills to stay in Buffalo, talk to the local political and business leaders about what they can do to help you to locate your business in the area so that you and the jobs that you create can help to make the business climate better (while you may pay more in taxes, etc., it is possible that your other costs could be lowered so that your bottom line and your lifestyle are barely impacted or may even be improved).

Talk is cheap. And, moaning about whether the Bills are going to be moved out of Buffalo is easy. But, none of that is going to keep the team in the area. And, it is not going to make things any better for the people living in the area, either. The only thing that will make things better is a concerted effort by the people living in the area--and those outside of the area who can either move there or do business there--to do everything that they can to attract businesses to the area and make the economy of the region better. It is the only answer.

Ralph Wilson is going to do what he's going to do and what he feels that he needs to do, as a businessman, with the Bills. The question is whether the people of the Buffalo area are willing to do what they need to do to convince him and/or whoever buys the team from his estate that the economy of the region is good enough to make it worthwhile to keep the team based there.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

If the Bills moved to Toronto I wouldnt be a fan.. I love the Bills because they are the local team.. The team I grew up watching and cheering for..

I wouldnt have a new favorite team but Id route for the Browns and Packers..

[Michael82]

If we remained the "Buffalo Bills."
exactly! :hi5:

[THATHURMANATOR]

I hate to say it, but Ralph is right to refer to Buffalo as a "town" with a dwindling population and jobs and to say that moving the Bills would destroy Buffalo--certainly as an entity in the national consciousness (without the Bills, Buffalo gets mentioned nationally no more than Akron).

But, instead of complaining about it, pissing and moaning about whether Ralph is or isn't making money, and saying that moving the Bills is inevitable, I'd like to see some of that energy and passion put into an effort to get Buffalo's economy turned around so that, instead of losing people and jobs, people and money start flowing back into the area. That means putting the feet of the local politicians and business interests in the area to the fire and demanding that they aggressively go out and pursue new industries and businesses and make deals (which will have to include giving tax breaks) to attract them to the area--with the threat that, if they do not do that, they will be lose their jobs at the next election or have their businesses boycotted (if they stand in the way of attracting new businesses to the area).

I'm sorry, but it is time for the people of WNY to stop sitting in a corner crying about how bad things are, focusing on their own narrow interests, and thinking small. It's way past time for them to start looking at the bigger picture, stand up and demand action from their local political and business leaders--and make sacrifices if necessary--to get the local economic situation turned around.

Other than the weather--which isn't that much different that in a lot of other cities--there is nothing wrong with the Buffalo area that can't be fixed by decisive and concerted political action and a willingness on the part of the business community to work to attract new businesses to the area. It just requires the will and the effort to get it done.

But, the action and effort needed to break the inertia that has gripped the politicians and business community for more than 30 years now isn't going to happen as long as local community leadership is allowed to continue to do nothing and the politicians feel that they can still get elected so long as they don't rock the boat and continue to appeal to the narrow self-interests of their constituents. The only way that they are going to make the effort and take the chances necessary to do what needs to be done is if the people in the area--their constituents and customers--DEMAND it and refuse to accept any excuses for not bringing new businesses and jobs to the area.

It comes down to this: If the jobs are there, the people will come. Period.

Ralph Wilson or whoever buys the Bills from his estate after he dies would not be interested in moving the Bills if the economy of the Buffalo area were robust and there were enough people and weath in the area to make moving to another city less attractive. In our society today--and the NFL is just a reflection of what is going on in society--it's all about the money, baby. That's what counts.

So, if you want the Bills to stay in the Buffalo area and don't want them to be moved, the solution is clear: if you live in the WNY area, instead of moaning about the inevitability of losing the team, get organized and demand that the local political and business leadership do what is necessary to get the economy in the area turned around. Don't accept excuses or failure--or settle for, "well he/she is good on X, Y or Z other things". If those in positions of power don't get the job done, replace them and keep replacing them until you find people who can and will get it done, regardless of party. And, just keep telling them, "It's the economy, stupid!"

If you have a business or want to start one and you want the Bills to stay in Buffalo, talk to the local political and business leaders about what they can do to help you to locate your business in the area so that you and the jobs that you create can help to make the business climate better (while you may pay more in taxes, etc., it is possible that your other costs could be lowered so that your bottom line and your lifestyle are barely impacted or may even be improved).

Talk is cheap. And, moaning about whether the Bills are going to be moved out of Buffalo is easy. But, none of that is going to keep the team in the area. And, it is not going to make things any better for the people living in the area, either. The only thing that will make things better is a concerted effort by the people living in the area--and those outside of the area who can either move there or do business there--to do everything that they can to attract businesses to the area and make the economy of the region better. It is the only answer.

Ralph Wilson is going to do what he's going to do and what he feels that he needs to do, as a businessman, with the Bills. The question is whether the people of the Buffalo area are willing to do what they need to do to convince him and/or whoever buys the team from his estate that the economy of the region is good enough to make it worthwhile to keep the team based there.
All time great post!!! :bf1: