Maybe the Bills need to leave Buffalo for it to...

[Pride]

... finally figure out that there is more to life than football. Perhaps that is exactly what happened with Cleveland and Baltimore. Both cities began their upswing after their NFL teams left them.

Almost like a wake up call to the people, politicians, and businesses.

Is it possible that the Bills need to leave in order for Buffalo to wake up and rebuild itself?

:feedback:

[DraftBoy]

That's actually a very real possibility. The city needs to essentially be completely overhauled.

[Mr. Miyagi]

There's no life outside of football. You're nuts.

[RedEyE]

A few things that you're overlooking:

1) The discussion is the Bills being moved to Toronto. The proximiity of Buffalo to Toronto is far too close and therefore would leave Buffalo forever jockeying for a new franchise, begging the NFL to bring football back to Buffalo. The NFL will obviously have its doubts and leave the city dangling until A) the local poulation increases and B) the local economy is equal to or greater than the middle income making teams in the NFL.

2) Expansion. Toronto gets a team without expanding the NFL. Buffalo would have to pray and hope that another team dies elsewhere, or if the NFL suddenly decided to expand for some unknown reason, they'd be forced to compete for an expansion team against cities like LA.

[THATHURMANATOR]

... finally figure out that there is more to life than football. Perhaps that is exactly what happened with Cleveland and Baltimore. Both cities began their upswing after their NFL teams left them.

Almost like a wake up call to the people, politicians, and businesses.

Is it possible that the Bills need to leave in order for Buffalo to wake up and rebuild itself?

:feedback:
This would have the opposite effect.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How could losing the team help anything? This makes no sense.

[Michael82]

This would have the opposite effect.
I totally agree.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I totally agree.
A lot of people that don't live here are chiming in with this kind of talk. I don't get it.

[gr8slayer]

It sounds like it doesn't matter what happens, that city is ****ed.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It sounds like it doesn't matter what happens, that city is ****ed.
Are you really just trying to annoy me with this crap? The city is rebounding. That isn't the problem. It will never rebound enough to compete with the Toronto's of the world.

[gr8slayer]

Are you really just trying to annoy me with this crap? The city is rebounding. That isn't the problem. It will never rebound enough to compete with the Toronto's of the world.
That's been my whole point since we started this Buffalo vs. Larger Markets crap a few weeks ago.

Buffalo has BEEN rebounding but there's no way on gods green earth that it will rebound quick enough to have a chance to save the Bills unless Ralph sells before he dies. I hate to tell you but I have yet to read anything that indicates that Buffalo is making these epic jumps in economy or population. Hell, all I needed to know is what I heard at that hockey game from people who lived in Buffalo their whole life until it just got too hard to make an honest living.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That's been my whole point since we started this Buffalo vs. Larger Markets crap a few weeks ago.

Buffalo has BEEN rebounding but there's no way on gods green earth that it will rebound quick enough to have a chance to save the Bills unless Ralph sells before he dies. I hate to tell you but I have yet to read anything that indicates that Buffalo is making these epic jumps in economy or population. Hell, all I needed to know is what I heard at that hockey game from people who lived in Buffalo their whole life until it just got too hard to make an honest living.
You are basing your opinion on what a couple people told you at a hockey game? :shakeno:

[gr8slayer]

You are basing your opinion on what a couple people told you at a hockey game? :shakeno:
More like 10+

They would know just as well as anyone having lived their their whole life up until a few years ago. Hell, there are people on this board that have echoed the same things that I was told by those people. You're actually the only person from Buffalo that seems to think that the economy is just skyrocketing, and I've met A LOT of people from Buffalo :up:

[ParanoidAndroid]

A few things that you're overlooking:

1) The discussion is the Bills being moved to Toronto. The proximiity of Buffalo to Toronto is far too close and therefore would leave Buffalo forever jockeying for a new franchise, begging the NFL to bring football back to Buffalo. The NFL will obviously have its doubts and leave the city dangling until A) the local poulation increases and B) the local economy is equal to or greater than the middle income making teams in the NFL.

2) Expansion. Toronto gets a team without expanding the NFL. Buffalo would have to pray and hope that another team dies elsewhere, or if the NFL suddenly decided to expand for some unknown reason, they'd be forced to compete for an expansion team against cities like LA.

They can move back to Buffalo after they fail in Toronto, just like they always fail in L.A.

Pride, you raise an interesting topic. I wonder how much relevancy this really has. :scratch:

[RedEyE]

They can move back to Buffalo after they fail in Toronto, just like they always fail in L.A.

Pride, you raise an interesting topic. I wonder how much relevancy this really has. :scratch:

Sure. They'll just bounce the team between two cities that fail at retaining a team.

[Wally The Barber]

Do we really need to test your theory?

[northernbillfan]

I was in Buffalo last OCtober for the first time in 20 years and I saw a city growing and reidentifying itself. The Buffalo I saw in 1987 was a desolate wasteland with lots of closed up shops and bars miles away from each other. The Buffalo I saw last OCtober was young full of energy and vibrant. All the components needed for new growth.

I think the biggest thing Buffalo has going for it right now is the focus on making it a top university city. That keeps many a city that has little prospects of economic development alive.

One downfall the city has going for it is arrogance. Don't be too arrogant to think the Bills won't move. Look at Cleveland, Batimore, St. Louis and LA. These cities thought that the team would never move. Clev and Balt especially thought so as those teams are/were the backbone of football history. Major sports is filled with empty stadums, ball parks and hockey arenas.

The bottom line here is that someone needs to start a campaign to keep the team in Buffalo before it is too late. I know the league will not support a community owned franchise, but there is nothing wrong with a group of owners, like the group that saved the Oilers a few years back, getting together adn pooling their resources to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

[Mr. Pink]

Umm Cleveland didn't upswing when the Browns left. The city declared bankruptcy in the late 70s early 80s when Kucinich was mayor. Yeah, the same guy who threw his hat into the presidential election briefly.

And to be honest, when I lived there in 93 and then when I moved back in 99, nothing was different, really. Considering the Browns moved in between the times I lived there, at least half of the premise of the original post is false.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Sure. They'll just bounce the team between two cities that fail at retaining a team.

Wait....

The premise was that the Bills leave and then the economy surges making Buffalo a more economically viable NFL city. Wasn't that the point of the thread? :idunno:

[Mr. Pink]

Wait....

The premise was that the Bills leave and then the economy surges making Buffalo a more economically viable NFL city. Wasn't that the point of the thread? :idunno:

Except the logic and examples used by the thread starter is flawed and incorrect.

[RedEyE]

Wait....

The premise was that the Bills leave and then the economy surges making Buffalo a more economically viable NFL city. Wasn't that the point of the thread? :idunno:

To assume that the franchise might somehow fold in Toronto and move back to Buffalo at the best possbile moment might not be the best course of action for this issue.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Umm Cleveland didn't upswing when the Browns left. The city declared bankruptcy in the late 70s early 80s when Kucinich was mayor. Yeah, the same guy who threw his hat into the presidential election briefly.

And to be honest, when I lived there in 93 and then when I moved back in 99, nothing was different, really. Considering the Browns moved in between the times I lived there, at least half of the premise of the original post is false.

Some first hand knowledge......hmmm. I was hoping it was a little more valid.

I remember in the late 90's thinking that Cleveland was coming around. It at least experienced an improved image during that time...not just in my eyes. I've had conversations with people who thought Cleveland was one of the few rust belt cities that made strides.

[Mr. Pink]

Some first hand knowledge......hmmm. I was hoping it was a little more valid.

I remember in the late 90's thinking that Cleveland was coming around. It at least experienced an improved image during that time...not just in my eyes. I've had conversations with people who thought Cleveland was one of the few rust belt cities that made strides.

Cleveland did make strides, but those strides were pretty much all done and completed before the Browns left town. Jacobs Field now Progressive Park i believe, done in 93...Gund Arena, now Quicken Loans Arena also done in 93, Rock HOF, after about a decade of arguing about where to put it, done in 95. Terminal Tower being renovated into a huge mall, done in 90. All of Cleveland's downtown growth and major building was done before 1995.

And cleanup efforts to just "beautify" the area were done in the mid 80s. Panhandlers all over the streets were pretty much gone in 88. Most graffiti was gone in 88. The Flats were cleaned up in the late 80s as well.

The planning for pretty much everything took part in the early 80's under Kucinich after the city declared bankruptcy.