Why does Ralph owe the city of Buffalo?

[Stewie]

The attitude has always been that Ralph owes Buffalo something. Why?

[Dr. Lecter]

I dunno.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Hmmm Maybe because we have made him a potentional BILLIONAIRE by supporting his team for over 40 years paying our hard earned money, time, and emotions.

[gr8slayer]

He doesn't owe anyone crap.

[hydro]

Hmmm Maybe because we have made him a potentional BILLIONAIRE by supporting his team for over 40 years paying our hard earned money, time, and emotions.

That about hits the nail on the head.

[Stewie]

Hmmm Maybe because we have made him a potentional BILLIONAIRE by supporting his team for over 40 years paying our hard earned money, time, and emotions.

So when you support a team with your money and emotions, they should lay it all on the field for you. I understand that. Where does their responsibility end? Does Ralph or the franchise owe buffalo anything more than what they were paid to do?

[gr8slayer]

THe only thing he owes Buffalo is a damn ring.

[Dr. Lecter]

Hmmm Maybe because we have made him a potentional BILLIONAIRE by supporting his team for over 40 years paying our hard earned money, time, and emotions.

So why does he owe us something? We paid for the product we saw at the time, not future product.

Do we owe him something for not moving the team to greaner pastures and more money?

[hydro]

So why does he owe us something? We paid for the product we saw at the time, not future product.

Do we owe him something for not moving the team to greaner pastures and more money?

Is it our fault that the economy of Buffalo isn't what it should be? If it is then yes we owe him something.

[Dr. Lecter]

Is it our fault that the economy of Buffalo isn't what it should be? If it is then yes we owe him something.

It is not his fault either. It is a reality.

And it is partially our fault. We eleceted the leaders that helped this area and state get into this mess.

[THATHURMANATOR]

So when you support a team with your money and emotions, they should lay it all on the field for you. I understand that. Where does their responsibility end? Does Ralph or the franchise owe buffalo anything more than what they were paid to do?
I would understand where you are coming from IF and only if the team was losing money, but since they make Millions upon millions each year it is very weak.

[Stewie]

I would understand where you are coming from IF and only if the team was losing money, but since they make Millions upon millions each year it is very weak.

So who made Thurm the judge of whom gets to make how much money?

Not to sound flippant but, that's basically what you're saying.

Also, the amount of money being made has to be taken in context. 1 million dollars profit is a lot of money for one person. It isn't a lot of money if it's profit for a company with a thousand employees. So where's the context? Ralph can't make as much money in Buffalo as 31 other owners can make in their cities.

[hydro]

It is not his fault either. It is a reality.

And it is partially our fault. We eleceted the leaders that helped this area and state get into this mess.

Was there anyone in the past 10-20 years that ran for office that would have been better? Even when it seems like someone is the right person you get it shoved up your arse.

[Stewie]

THe only thing he owes Buffalo is a damn ring.

This I could get behind

[THATHURMANATOR]

So who made Thurm the judge of whom gets to make how much money?

Not to sound flippant but, that's basically what you're saying.

Also, the amount of money being made has to be taken in context. 1 million dollars profit is a lot of money for one person. It isn't a lot of money if it's profit for a company with a thousand employees. So where's the context? Ralph can't make as much money in Buffalo as 31 other owners can make in their cities.

What was their net profits last year? What was their net expense.

I guess he owes me nothing for the countless THOUSANDS of dollars I have spent on the team in the last 7 years. Give me a ****ing break already.

Ralph can do what ever he wants man and owes me nothing.

Is that better :idunno:

[THATHURMANATOR]

IMO part of running a good business is integrity.

[Stewie]

What was their net profits last year? What was their net expense.

I guess he owes me nothing for the countless THOUSANDS of dollars I have spent on the team in the last 7 years. Give me a ****ing break already.

Ralph can do what ever he wants man and owes me nothing.

Is that better :idunno:

There is no better or worse thurm. Just trying to understand why people think they're owed something. You think your owed cause you spent a lot of money on the bills. That's the reason. No need to get juvenile about it.

I don't know what the franchise net profits were. It doesn't matter to me, cause I don't think Ralph would be making up the fact that he can't make as much money as other teams. The proof is in the ticket prices, and the fact that he was willing to make a public fool of himself (undeservedly) by taking on his peers when negotiating the last CBA.

IMO, at the end of the day the amount of money I've given to the team means two things: jack and squat. It's his team, unless he is contractually obligated to stay, I don't see how he owes anyone anything.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sorry Paul this is an emotional issue.
Lets just say we disagree greatly and leave it at that.

[Stewie]

sounds good to me :up:

[gr8slayer]

IMO part of running a good business is integrity.
Not in todays world, you're either the hunter or the hunted.

[imbondz]

Hmmm Maybe because we have made him a potentional BILLIONAIRE by supporting his team for over 40 years paying our hard earned money, time, and emotions.

yeah, it's not that tough to figure out

[DraftBoy]

He doesn't owe anyone anything really, this team could of moved years ago but he didnt move them.

[shelby]

He doesn't owe us jack :curse:.
How we choose to spend our money is on us.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why Doesn't he owe us anything is the real question.

Please explain.

[Stewie]

Not in todays world, you're either the hunter or the hunted.

This I disagree with. Integrity is a must.

I think integrity from the Bills perspective means doing what it takes to win both financially and on the field. Obviously, these things go hand in hand. But when Bills fans pay money they expect to win. So the Bills integrity means putting the best possible product on the field every year for the fans, while maintaining a plan that allows for long term solvency and competitiveness.

I don't know they can do the latter in Buffalo anymore. I hope they can, but I just don't know.

[shelby]

It's kind of like "the world owes me a living" attitude.

You have a job. If your employer chooses to move the company to another city or state, is he obligated to force you to make the move as well, so you can keep your job? Or does he have the right to terminate your employment, and hire someone else in the new city or state who will work for less pay?

Like it or not, the NFL is a business, and profit is the bottom line.

Ralph didn't put a gun to people's heads and force them to buy tickets and merchandise. Therefore, he is under no obligation to the fans. The simple truth is he could sell the Bills to someone in L.A. tomorrow, and there isn't a thing any of us could do about it. Trying to make more money by playing some games in Toronto is a business move. It isn't personal, and shouldn't be taken as such by the fans.

[DraftBoy]

Why Doesn't he owe us anything is the real question.

Please explain.


Because you spend your money in your own ways, you pay for a product in the present no in the future. If you are not happy with the return on your amount payed, stop paying. He owes you nothing at all.

[RedEyE]

I agree with Thurm 100%


Its a partnership between an NFL owner and the city it resides in. If one isn't willing to scratch the other ones back then where's the partnership?

FACT: Buffalo sells out nearly every year despite the economic issues facing the city.

This is not Jacksonville where they can't even fill the stadium Sunday to Sunday.

Ralph owes the fans his loyalty as they have provided theirs year in and year out.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Because you spend your money in your own ways, you pay for a product in the present no in the future. If you are not happy with the return on your amount payed, stop paying. He owes you nothing at all.
If we are talking about candy bars or sneakers I am with you but we are talking about something much bigger. Something that is a vital cog to the community. A community that has virtually bent over backwards for the guy with tax breaks, stadium renovations, sweatheart lease deals, individuals hard earned cash etc. A community that has taken his 40k initial investment and made it a 800 million dollar entity. To tell me that he doesn't owe Buffalo anything is ridiculous!!

[DraftBoy]

If we are talking about candy bars or sneakers I am with you but we are talking about something much bigger. Something that is a vital cog to the community. A community that has virtually bent over backwards for the guy with tax breaks, stadium renovations, sweatheart lease deals, individuals hard earned cash etc. A community that has taken his 40k initial investment and made it a 800 million dollar entity. To tell me that he doesn't owe Buffalo anything is ridiculous!!


And that's on you as citizens for allowing your city to be built around a temporary fixture, and as I said before thats piss poor planning, and prep. You never build a metropolis around a sports team. To some degree you guys are getting what you deserve. And Im sure Ill get negged for that and disagreed with but it will have to wait till after lunch.

[THATHURMANATOR]

And that's on you as citizens for allowing your city to be built around a temporary fixture, and as I said before thats piss poor planning, and prep. You never build a metropolis around a sports team. To some degree you guys are getting what you deserve. And Im sure Ill get negged for that and disagreed with but it will have to wait till after lunch.
So Ralph does owe us but it is our fault? Stop flip flopping on this.

[DraftBoy]

So Ralph does owe us but it is our fault? Stop flip flopping on this.

I never said Ralph owes you anything, I said its your fault for not being forward thinking and not planning ahead.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I never said Ralph owes you anything, I said its your fault for not being forward thinking and not planning ahead.
Its not my fault.

[DraftBoy]

Its not my fault.


I disagree, but thats up for discussion. Ill be back around 2pm

[THATHURMANATOR]

I disagree, but thats up for discussion. Ill be back around 2pm
No it is not up for discussion. It is fact.

[hydro]

I never said Ralph owes you anything, I said its your fault for not being forward thinking and not planning ahead.
I didn't know we had so much clout in the running of a city. :scratch:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Seriously Hydro.

[finsrclowns]

It's kind of like "the world owes me a living" attitude.

You have a job. If your employer chooses to move the company to another city or state, is he obligated to force you to make the move as well, so you can keep your job? Or does he have the right to terminate your employment, and hire someone else in the new city or state who will work for less pay?

Like it or not, the NFL is a business, and profit is the bottom line.

Ralph didn't put a gun to people's heads and force them to buy tickets and merchandise. Therefore, he is under no obligation to the fans. The simple truth is he could sell the Bills to someone in L.A. tomorrow, and there isn't a thing any of us could do about it. Trying to make more money by playing some games in Toronto is a business move. It isn't personal, and shouldn't be taken as such by the fans.

Sure it's a business and Ralph, like the owner of any business, deserves to make a fair profit. The question is, is he entitled to make a MAXIMUM profit? Obviously he is legally but morally it gets more complicated than that. Here's why:

First off you have a league which has been built and succeeded on a socialist "divide the profits relatively equally" model. Some teams make more money than others but this isn't baseball without revenue sharing where you have a few teams making huge money and a bunch losing money. All teams in the NFL are making profits and it's up to the management of each team to put a product on the field that wins in order to improve what is already a solid bottom line. Or are you too young to remember when the New England Patriots were known as the Patsies and were among the leagues least profitable teams?

Secondly Ralph isn't the owner of any ordinary business. Professional sports teams are in a very real way a public trust. In many cases cities and states contribute to the success of the teams by contributing to infrastructure and money for new or improved stadiums. The sports pages provide endless amounts of free advertising. But there is also an emotional human component that is very real and goes way beyond dollars and cents. If it wasn't there, no sports team would make money. But if it is there, and especially if it's been there for decades through good times and bad, as is the case with the Bills, you bet the owner owes the fans something. And thats why Art Modell is hated to this day in Cleveland despite the fact that they got another team. The Bills = Buffalo.

So the bottom line is if Ralph needs to play a game or 2 a year in Toronto to make the Bills more viable here that's ok. But if he pulls the plug and moves the team to Toronto at age 97 I'll lead the procession to piss on his grave.

[Michael82]

I agree with Thurm 100%


Its a partnership between an NFL owner and the city it resides in. If one isn't willing to scratch the other ones back then where's the partnership?

FACT: Buffalo sells out nearly every year despite the economic issues facing the city.

This is not Jacksonville where they can't even fill the stadium Sunday to Sunday.

Ralph owes the fans his loyalty as they have provided theirs year in and year out.
Exactly and if you listen to the new COO Russ Brandon, the Buffalo Bills business side has never been stronger. The boxes were sold out last year, we added several new sponsors, the stadium sold all all the games, the suites were sold out. There is a spread fan base all over Western NY, thanks to the Training Camp at St John Fisher. I don't see the problem and really believe that they are just trying to tap into another market for extra help with the boxes and suites, plus extra sponsorships.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sure it's a business and Ralph, like the owner of any business, deserves to make a fair profit. The question is, is he entitled to make a MAXIMUM profit? Obviously he is legally but morally it gets more complicated than that. Here's why:

First off you have a league which has been built and succeeded on a socialist "divide the profits relatively equally" model. Some teams make more money than others but this isn't baseball without revenue sharing where you have a few teams making huge money and a bunch losing money. All teams in the NFL are making profits and it's up to the management of each team to put a product on the field that wins in order to improve what is already a solid bottom line. Or are you too young to remember when the New England Patriots were known as the Patsies and were among the leagues least profitable teams?

Secondly Ralph isn't the owner of any ordinary business. Professional sports teams are in a very real way a public trust. In many cases cities and states contribute to the success of the teams by contributing to infrastructure and money for new or improved stadiums. The sports pages provide endless amounts of free advertising. But there is also an emotional human component that is very real and goes way beyond dollars and cents. If it wasn't there, no sports team would make money. But if it is there, and especially if it's been there for decades through good times and bad, as is the case with the Bills, you bet the owner owes the fans something. And thats why Art Modell is hated to this day in Cleveland despite the fact that they got another team. The Bills = Buffalo.

So the bottom line is if Ralph needs to play a game or 2 a year in Toronto to make the Bills more viable here that's ok. But if he pulls the plug and moves the team to Toronto at age 97 I'll lead the procession to piss on his grave.
I am with you.

[Bulldog]

Hey Paul, maybe because the taxpayers have footed a good portion of the bill on the stadium that bears his name. This area has sunk an assload of time and money into this team and Wilson doesn't even have the courtesy to allow a local ownership group to present him with an offer to keep the team in Buffalo. Maybe because we have supported a team that for the better part of their existance has been nothing short of terrible.

[gr8slayer]

Hey Paul, maybe because the taxpayers have footed a good portion of the bill on the stadium that bears his name. This area has sunk an assload of time and money into this team and Wilson doesn't even have the courtesy to allow a local ownership group to present him with an offer to keep the team in Buffalo. Maybe because we have supported a team that for the better part of their existance has been nothing short of terrible.
Don't say that, Mikey will call you a bad fan and question your loyalty :rolleyes:

[Bulldog]

The thing that really pisses me off is the fact that Wilson won't even give a local ownership group a chance to purchase the team or come to some type of agreement where the team will be purchased upon his passing.

[gr8slayer]

The thing that really pisses me off is the fact that Wilson won't even give a local ownership group a chance to purchase the team or come to some type of agreement where the team will be purchased upon his passing.
Because he's a greedy bastard.

[Oldbillsfan]

To say the Bills owe nothing to the community that suported them all these years is crazy. Sounds like todays business climate though.

Why create manufacturing jobs in the US when China can do the work for less than half? Don't like the rediculas increases in your insurance policy? Fine, you have been cancelled.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yep OBF... Its sad

[gr8slayer]

Yep OBF... Its sad
But that's a fact of life nowadays and it makes some of us a ton of cash.

[Bulldog]

Not to go off on a political rant, but OBF hit a topic that constitutes a discussion. I would like to know who besides all the ultrawealthy corporations thought an agreement to send an assload of jobs out of this country was a good idea? NAFTA was one of the biggest mistakes this country ever made. And if you don't think it has any bearing on the current economic climate you're nuts.

[Bulldog]

But that's a fact of life nowadays and it makes some of us a ton of cash.

So in one thread you call Wilson a greedy bastard and then you come back with this?

[Michael82]

Hey Paul, maybe because the taxpayers have footed a good portion of the bill on the stadium that bears his name. This area has sunk an assload of time and money into this team and Wilson doesn't even have the courtesy to allow a local ownership group to present him with an offer to keep the team in Buffalo. Maybe because we have supported a team that for the better part of their existance has been nothing short of terrible.
Good post! :bf1:

[Stewie]

I agree with Thurm 100%


Its a partnership between an NFL owner and the city it resides in. If one isn't willing to scratch the other ones back then where's the partnership?

FACT: Buffalo sells out nearly every year despite the economic issues facing the city.

This is not Jacksonville where they can't even fill the stadium Sunday to Sunday.

Ralph owes the fans his loyalty as they have provided theirs year in and year out.

The partnership with the state is codified in the stadium contract. Why does one party to that contract owe some extra loyalty? Does it work both ways? Is it up to NYS to do whatever it takes to keep the Bills?

And are you kidding about the bills not scratching NY's back? Who do you think gets all the tax revenue from the 80,000 beer swilling bills fans who trek to the games? And all the income revenue for the highly paid franchise staff?

If you want to say Ralph owes the fans something, you are on to something he probably does owe loyal fans. But "buffalo" is not the fans. Maybe he owes the fans a ring, but he certainly doesn't owe buffalo anything.

[gr8slayer]

So in one thread you call Wilson a greedy bastard and then you come back with this?
Isn't it the truth?

BTW, us doesn't equal me, us equals our country. I don't make money off of ****ing people, not yet anyway.

[Stewie]

Because he's a greedy bastard.

How can you possibly call someone greedy for not planning for his assets after he passes? He's dead. A dead person cant be greedy.

If he was greedy, this team would have moved to LA a long time ago.

[Bulldog]

Isn't it the truth?

BTW, us doesn't equal me, us equals our country. I don't make money off of ****ing people, not yet anyway.

It is the truth, and one of the major problems with America today. Money is not the root of all evil, the love of money is the root of all evil. I'm starting to get off topic here, so I'll stop.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If you want to say Ralph owes the fans something, you are on to something he probably does owe loyal fans. But "buffalo" is not the fans. Maybe he owes the fans a ring, but he certainly doesn't owe buffalo anything.
Why get so technical about it. Buffalo is the people. The people are fans.

[Stewie]

Not to go off on a political rant, but OBF hit a topic that constitutes a discussion. I would like to know who besides all the ultrawealthy corporations thought an agreement to send an assload of jobs out of this country was a good idea? NAFTA was one of the biggest mistakes this country ever made. And if you don't think it has any bearing on the current economic climate you're nuts.

And this post pretty much proves shelby's point.

At the risk of further digression, you're right NAFTA has a big bearing on the current economic climate. Because of it, we're a lot better off than we otherwise would be. NAFTA has increased the bottom line at many companies, meaning the economic numbers would be much worse without it.

Americans have lived a lifestyle far above the rest of the world for a long time. That time has ended, and our descent into normalcy has been and will continue to be painful. But the whole idea of how life owes us, or we are owed jobs, has to dissappear.

End digression.

[Stewie]

Why get so technical about it. Buffalo is the people. The people are fans.
What? So technical?

I'm a bills fan. I have never lived in buffalo.

Most of the people on this board do not live in buffalo.

It is not the same thing, and nowhere near "technical".

[THATHURMANATOR]

What? So technical?

I'm a bills fan. I have never lived in buffalo.

Most of the people on this board do not live in buffalo.

It is not the same thing, and nowhere near "technical".
Who cares about this board? How bout this 99% of the people who DO live in the city are Bills fans/taxpayers. I guess I don't understand what you are even talking about. Are you saying he owes the Fans (99% of the population) but NOT the city.... Are you saying he doesn't owe the actual buildings, roads and bridges then?

[Stewie]

Who cares about this board? How bout this 99% of the people who DO live in the city are Bills fans/taxpayers. I guess I don't understand what you are even talking about. Are you saying he owes the Fans (99% of the population) but NOT the city.... Are you saying he doesn't owe the actual buildings, roads and bridges then?

I said he "might" owe bills fans a ring. You don't think bills fans outside of buffalo count, I do.

This has nothing to do with owing his team to the city of buffalo (and its residents). I'm not going to explain why if you can't understand the difference.

I care about this board, even if you dont. :D

And 99% of the people in buffalo are bills fans? Maybe. 99% of the people in buffalo are taxpayers? no chance in hell.

[Bulldog]

And this post pretty much proves shelby's point.

At the risk of further digression, you're right NAFTA has a big bearing on the current economic climate. Because of it, we're a lot better off than we otherwise would be. NAFTA has increased the bottom line at many companies, meaning the economic numbers would be much worse without it.

Americans have lived a lifestyle far above the rest of the world for a long time. That time has ended, and our descent into normalcy has been and will continue to be painful. But the whole idea of how life owes us, or we are owed jobs, has to dissappear.

End digression.

And some how all the jobs that were shipped to other countries was a good thing for the U.S. economy? I never said anyone was entitled to anything. But to think that shipping manufacturing jobs to other countries is a good thing? It's the old "rich get richer" scenario. It's great that we have all these fancy items to choose from, but who the hell is going to buy them when nobody has a decent paying job?

[Stewie]

And some how all the jobs that were shipped to other countries was a good thing for the U.S. economy? I never said anyone was entitled to anything. But to think that shipping manufacturing jobs to other countries is a good thing? It's the old "rich get richer" scenario. It's great that we have all these fancy items to choose from, but who the hell is going to buy them when nobody has a decent paying job?

Is it good for the people who lost their jobs? No way in hell except maybe the lucky 5% who landed in something better. Is it good for the economy? Depends on your definition of good. But anything is better than nothing, right?

Companies have to compete globally to stay in business. If they don't, they go out of business altogether. How is that better for anybody?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I said he "might" owe bills fans a ring. You don't think bills fans outside of buffalo count, I do.

This has nothing to do with owing his team to the city of buffalo (and its residents). I'm not going to explain why if you can't understand the difference.

I care about this board, even if you dont. :D

And 99% of the people in buffalo are bills fans? Maybe. 99% of the people in buffalo are taxpayers? no chance in hell.
I didn't say non Buffalonians dont count.

In my opinion it has everything to do with it and I am not going to explain why if you can't understand.

They pay taxes when they buy things correct?

[MikeInRoch]

As a part of public funds being used to build the stadium, an agreement was made for how long the Bills are obligated to stay there. Once they have stayed there that long, they are under no obligation.

So no, I'm sorry, you don't have to like it, but the Bills really do not owe the people of Buffalo anything.

[THATHURMANATOR]

As a part of public funds being used to build the stadium, an agreement was made for how long the Bills are obligated to stay there. Once they have stayed there that long, they are under no obligation.

So no, I'm sorry, you don't have to like it, but the Bills really do not owe the people of Buffalo anything.
Again technically no
Morally yes.

[MikeInRoch]

Morally yes to you. Morally no to me. I'm curious where you derive your moral code from with regards to this.

[DraftBoy]

No it is not up for discussion. It is fact.


Yes you are correct it is a fact that you as a citizen allowed for your city plan its future around a temporary thing. You have said it yourself the entire economy could collapse (though I think you are over dramatizing a bit) over a sports team leaving! If you dont see the error in your ways then you never will.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't know we had so much clout in the running of a city. :scratch:


Its called Civic Duty, and it doesnt start or end in the voting booth once every couple of years. You should be attending the meetings regularly, constantly keeping an eye on local leg in Albany, and know every single person who represents you if not personally, at least enough to where they recognize you. You have way more clout and potential power then you are either willing to admit, or can at this moment comprehend.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yes you are correct it is a fact that you as a citizen allowed for your city plan its future around a temporary thing. You have said it yourself the entire economy could collapse (though I think you are over dramatizing a bit) over a sports team leaving! If you dont see the error in your ways then you never will.
I was against building around the team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Its called Civic Duty, and it doesnt start or end in the voting booth once every couple of years. You should be attending the meetings regularly, constantly keeping an eye on local leg in Albany, and know every single person who represents you if not personally, at least enough to where they recognize you. You have way more clout and potential power then you are either willing to admit, or can at this moment comprehend.
This I surely do agree with. It becomes increasingly difficult to do these things as I work 6 days a week and have other out of work obligations and that is on me. I think Hydro and I can comprehend this it isn't very difficult just time consuming.

[DraftBoy]

I was against building around the team.


Did you illustrate those views through votes? Do you ever call, write, or email your elected reps at any level? Being against something mentally is all well in good, but it takes action.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Did you illustrate those views through votes? Do you ever call, write, or email your elected reps at any level? Being against something mentally is all well in good, but it takes action.
I voted against it.

[DraftBoy]

This I surely do agree with. It becomes increasingly difficult to do these things as I work 6 days a week and have other out of work obligations and that is on me. I think Hydro and I can comprehend this it isn't very difficult just time consuming.

I understand their are time constraints but nothing should matter more in life (outside of family) then what your government is doing around you. Millions of people wake up every day and their officials could pull the rug out from under them and they wouldn't even know it. Those that rarely get screwed over are those that are involved. Im not saying you have to attend every meeting but I know first hand that the city council and county commissioners meetings are replayed on television on Govt Cable programming, so you can do it from the safety of your own home. The minutes and transcripts should be posted online to. Writing an email or making a call takes no more than 10-15 minutes, really its not that time consuming.

[DraftBoy]

I voted against it.

What is it? Who? What? Where?

Im not from Buffalo I dont know who the "it" candidates are, you'll have to break down a little more.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I understand their are time constraints but nothing should matter more in life (outside of family) then what your government is doing around you. Millions of people wake up every day and their officials could pull the rug out from under them and they wouldn't even know it. Those that rarely get screwed over are those that are involved. Im not saying you have to attend every meeting but I know first hand that the city council and county commissioners meetings are replayed on television on Govt Cable programming, so you can do it from the safety of your own home. The minutes and transcripts should be posted online to. Writing an email or making a call takes no more than 10-15 minutes, really its not that time consuming.
Great info and I am certainly going to start looking into this. :hi5: I urge all Buffalonians to!

[DraftBoy]

Great info and I am certainly going to start looking into this. :hi5: I urge all Buffalonians to!


Good do your part, and you'll then feel empowered to make a change

You're lucky Im not billing you for this, since this is technically my job, but since its required no research and you're a friend Ill do it pro bono :respect:

[PhinsFan66]

Sell the team to Mark Cuban...he will fix it.

[hydro]

This I surely do agree with. It becomes increasingly difficult to do these things as I work 6 days a week and have other out of work obligations and that is on me. I think Hydro and I can comprehend this it isn't very difficult just time consuming.

Precisely.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Good do your part, and you'll then feel empowered to make a change

You're lucky Im not billing you for this, since this is technically my job, but since its required no research and you're a friend Ill do it pro bono :respect:
Thanks!!!
:bf1:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sell the team to Mark Cuban...he will fix it.
I am for that.

[gr8slayer]

I am for that.
What? You would want scum from Dallas owning your precious Buffalo Bills? A Jerry Jones like owner? :shakeno:

[hydro]

I understand their are time constraints but nothing should matter more in life (outside of family) then what your government is doing around you. Millions of people wake up every day and their officials could pull the rug out from under them and they wouldn't even know it. Those that rarely get screwed over are those that are involved. Im not saying you have to attend every meeting but I know first hand that the city council and county commissioners meetings are replayed on television on Govt Cable programming, so you can do it from the safety of your own home. The minutes and transcripts should be posted online to. Writing an email or making a call takes no more than 10-15 minutes, really its not that time consuming.

I guess the question is what do you focus on? I mean there are alot of things that need to be addressed in this area that has an effect on business.

[gr8slayer]

I guess the question is what do you focus on? I mean there are alot of things that need to be addressed in this area that has an effect on business.
Well you live in the area, when you walk around the city what do you see that could be improved to improve the economy and make it a more viable place to live?

[DraftBoy]

I guess the question is what do you focus on? I mean there are alot of things that need to be addressed in this area that has an effect on business.

First off you have to get the city refocused on how to provide the necessary infrastructure it needs to not only care for its own citizens but to attract investors to bring their businesses there.

[gr8slayer]

Another thing, show up with statistics. Bickering and *****ing won't work, they want factual statistics to back up your claims.

[Stewie]

This I surely do agree with. It becomes increasingly difficult to do these things as I work 6 days a week and have other out of work obligations and that is on me. I think Hydro and I can comprehend this it isn't very difficult just time consuming.

He says on post 40,728
:D

[Nighthawk]

The attitude has always been that Ralph owes Buffalo something. Why?

Umm, because the old pile of s**t has never sank a dime into this area, stadium or upgrades around the stadium. We have paid for everything, so for him to complain is absolutely ridiculous. That's why...I hope it helps you understand!

[YardRat]

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread, but in another one I posted some info regarding the economic impact the Buffalo Bills have had on WNY and I believe in 1996 the team employed over 1600 people and pumped over 110 million dollars into the local economy, with almost 40mil being spent on merchandise and services at local businesses.

Multiply that by almost fifty years and even adjusting for inflation the money the team has brought into the local economy far outweighs the money Ralph has made on his original investment. It's not even close.

[Historian]

I love those who call Hillary Clinton a carpetbagger, yet give Ralph Wilson a free pass.

It's just too funny.

[Historian]

Secondly Ralph isn't the owner of any ordinary business. Professional sports teams are in a very real way a public trust. In many cases cities and states contribute to the success of the teams by contributing to infrastructure and money for new or improved stadiums. The sports pages provide endless amounts of free advertising. But there is also an emotional human component that is very real and goes way beyond dollars and cents. If it wasn't there, no sports team would make money. But if it is there, and especially if it's been there for decades through good times and bad, as is the case with the Bills, you bet the owner owes the fans something. And thats why Art Modell is hated to this day in Cleveland despite the fact that they got another team. The Bills = Buffalo.

.

This is the crux of the matter.

Perhaps we wouldn't be closing libraries and hospitals had we not poured money into the bottomless pit that is Ralph Wilson's wallet over the last 50 years. (Every time he grumbled he wasn't making enough)

Perhaps we would already have a new Peace Bridge.

Perhaps we would already have a new waterfront, ala Cleveland.

Perhaps.

And I don't buy your 1600 employees either, Rat.

Any that are making a living wage or better aren't from around here anyways.

The lady that makes 7.85 working in the gift shop...she's from around here.

[Dr. Lecter]

I love those who call Hillary Clinton a carpetbagger, yet give Ralph Wilson a free pass.

It's just too funny.

Huh?

I must have missed Ralph holding or running for public office.

The comparison is not even close and are for two totally different situations.

[hydro]

I love those who call Hillary Clinton a carpetbagger, yet give Ralph Wilson a free pass.

It's just too funny.

I love people that are so hung up on politics they bring it into the Bills forum.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is the crux of the matter.

Perhaps we wouldn't be closing libraries and hospitals had we not poured money into the bottomless pit that is Ralph Wilson's wallet over the last 50 years. (Every time he grumbled he wasn't making enough)

Perhaps we would already have a new Peace Bridge.

Perhaps we would already have a new waterfront, ala Cleveland.

Perhaps.

And I don't buy your 1600 employees either, Rat.

Any that are making a living wage or better aren't from around here anyways.

The lady that makes 7.85 working in the gift shop...she's from around here.

I doubt any of that would have happened with our leadership. Cleveland developed a waterfront and had an NFL team at the same time.

The money Ralph has gotten from the area is much. much lower than practically every other NFL team.

The realities of today's NFL mean teams need an incredible amount of working capital. We can thank the Jones' and Snyder's for intentionally trying to price out the common man.

[YardRat]

This is the crux of the matter.

Perhaps we wouldn't be closing libraries and hospitals had we not poured money into the bottomless pit that is Ralph Wilson's wallet over the last 50 years. (Every time he grumbled he wasn't making enough)

Perhaps we would already have a new Peace Bridge.

Perhaps we would already have a new waterfront, ala Cleveland.

Perhaps.

And I don't buy your 1600 employees either, Rat.

Any that are making a living wage or better aren't from around here anyways.

The lady that makes 7.85 working in the gift shop...she's from around here.

http://www.ftballiance.org/stadiums/impact.php

Buffalo Bills
In 1996 the teams’ gross economic impact, reflecting total economic activity resulting from the Bills presence in the marketplace was estimated to be $111.5 million. The Bills employed 1,664 people, and total direct expenditures by fans were estimated to be $31.5 million.

I was a little high with 40mil, but pretty close on the others.

[Dr. Lecter]

And there is another way the Bills bring money into the area: How many millionaires own homes in the are because they are employed by the Bills?

[DraftBoy]

This is the crux of the matter.

Perhaps we wouldn't be closing libraries and hospitals had we not poured money into the bottomless pit that is Ralph Wilson's wallet over the last 50 years. (Every time he grumbled he wasn't making enough)

Perhaps we would already have a new Peace Bridge.

Perhaps we would already have a new waterfront, ala Cleveland.

Perhaps.

And I don't buy your 1600 employees either, Rat.

Any that are making a living wage or better aren't from around here anyways.

The lady that makes 7.85 working in the gift shop...she's from around here.

It sounds you have a bigger issue with your local government's inability to do simple things then RW or the Bills for money gripes. Again as I said earlier these are the people who you guys elected to office and then cowtowed to RW. Is it a tough spot to be in? Yes, but football comes way down the list of must haves in life.

[Historian]

Huh?

I must have missed Ralph holding or running for public office.

The comparison is not even close and are for two totally different situations.

You don't even know the definition of a 'carpetbagger'.

Look it up.

[Historian]

I think they should submit Wilson with an invoice for the unauthorized use of the name 'Buffalo' for the last 47 years.

Nothing major...roughly two million a year retroactively.

[YardRat]

You don't even know the definition of a 'carpetbagger'.

Look it up.

You're not going to get anywhere with that argument with Lecter or mercy...definitions are meant to be changed according to them.

You really should pay more attention when you're in the spin zone.

[Dr. Lecter]

You don't even know the definition of a 'carpetbagger'.

Look it up.


<CITE minmax_bound="true">American Heritage Dictionary</CITE> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=carpetbagger&ia=ahd4) - <CITE minmax_bound="true">Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/carpetbagger#sharethis)</CITE> <!-- google_ad_section_start(name=def) --><TABLE minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD minmax_bound="true">car·pet·bag·ger http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fcarpetbagger) (kär'pĭt-bāg'ər) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
<!--BOF_HEAD-->n. <!--EOF_HEAD--> <!--BOF_DEF--><LI minmax_bound="true">A Northerner who went to the South after the Civil War for political or financial advantage.
An outsider, especially a politician, who presumptuously seeks a position or success in a new locality.I did. It generally refers to a politician, although not always.

Of course, you would also fail to acknowledge the entirely different situations the two were in. It was not the primary point made.

It is amost like you were in engaging in a {Fill in the blank}.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[YardRat]

Number 1 reads 'Hillary Clinton (see picture)' for those of you wondering.

[chernobylwraiths]

Ralph owes us nothing. The taxpayers pay for upgrades to the stadium because that is what our elected officials thought would be the best way to keep the team in Buffalo (and how some people would be whining if they had not). Ralph has paid his players to win a championship, it is not his fault they they did not win one. The argument that people have spent thousands of dollars on this product is laughable as well. Football is entertainment. If you are not entertained, then don't buy the product (tickets).