Where's the character?

[Nighthawk]

This team lacks a veteran or two that can push them when times get tough. I've never seen a team crumble like this team does when times get tough. Hey, Darcy...take note of that effort tonight and the last game, because it shows the lack of heart from this team. Get some help in here...NOW!

[Dr. Lecter]

This team lacks a veteran or two that can push them when times get tough. I've never seen a team crumble like this team does when times get tough. Hey, Darcy...take note of that effort tonight and the last game, because it shows the lack of heart from this team. Get some help in here...NOW!

Just a note on the last game: THEY WON. They beat one of the best teams in the East, by beating New Jersey.

If you are questioning heart, which is the least of the problems, I really don't know what to say except that they will not win every game the rest of the season.

[Nighthawk]

Just a note on the last game: THEY WON. They beat one of the best teams in the East, by beating New Jersey.

If you are questioning heart, which is the least of the problems, I really don't know what to say except that they will not win every game the rest of the season.

Please tell me that you don't believe that this team has enough character and heart? If you do, then I seriously have to question your thought process. Winning in a shootout after giving up a lead is not really something to be proud of. On top of that, they do it again tonight and lose. No excuses...

The problem with this team is that they get too comfortable after winning a few games and then they slack. That is a lack of character...PERIOD!

[Meathead]

oh brother

[Nighthawk]

oh brother

Character is what holds this team back from being a very good team. It is what it is.

[Nighthawk]

One player who has character is Miller...I love this guy...he cares! Just listened to his postgame comments...AWESOME! Calling out his teammates...GOOD JOB MILLER!

[Dr. Lecter]

I'll put it this way:

I bet they have more come from behind victories than they do blown leads.

However, I bet you show less often after the come from behind victories.

I also bet you ignore some of the factors in the New Jersey game (i.e. back to back games).

Just like you seem to ignore winning streaks.

[Dr. Lecter]

One player who has character is Miller...I love this guy...he cares! Just listened to his postgame comments...AWESOME! Calling out his teammates...GOOD JOB MILLER!

Miller's often average play has been an issue this year.

Why not question his character on Kessel's shootout goal? The guy lost control of the puck. And Miller still let it in.

No heart.

[Nighthawk]

Miller's often average play has been an issue this year.

Why not question his character on Kessel's shootout goal? The guy lost control of the puck. And Miller still let it in.

No heart.

This is why it is useless to argue with you. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you really don't know what you're talking about. You watch the game through a fans eyes, just like me, but I also watch it as a guy who played the game. It's a lot different because when you've played it, you know when a guy is slacking it. It's obvious. Disagree with me, but that's why I'm more critical. If that offends you, I'm sorry, but it won't change.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is why it is useless to argue with you. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you really don't know what you're talking about. You watch the game through a fans eyes, just like me, but I also watch it as a guy who played the game. It's a lot different because when you've played it, you know when a guy is slacking it. It's obvious. Disagree with me, but that's why I'm more critical. If that offends you, I'm sorry, but it won't change.

Well by all means, if you played I will never question you again.

BTW, meathead played too.

You can question me all you want, but I am quite comfortable in knowing what I am seeing. You can walk around here like your **** does not stink and that is fine.

But if you think Miller has been on the top of his game all year, you are wrong. Flat out wrong. I think Miller would admit to it.

And it is not about you being critical. Not at all. Critical is fine. But being unreasonable is quite another. Being critical without being objective is a an issue, for one.

[hammerbillsfan]

But if you think Miller has been on the top of his game all year, you are wrong. Flat out wrong. I think Miller would admit to it.
Although he does have slightly better stats than last year.

http://sabres.nhl.com/team/app?page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8468011&service=page&tab=crs

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="evenRowColorStrong"><td class="leftAlignedColumn"> 2006-2007 (http://sabres.nhl.com/team/app?page=TeamHistoricalPlayers&season=20062007&service=page) </td> <td class="leftAlignedColumn"> Sabres </td> <td>63 </td> <td>3,692 </td> <td>40 </td> <td>16 </td> <td>- </td> <td>6 </td> <td>168 </td> <td>1,886 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>2.73 </td> <td>.911 </td> </tr> <tr class="oddRowColorStrong"> <!-- link to teammates for this season if team is the same as site's team --> <td class="leftAlignedColumn"> 2007-2008 (http://sabres.nhl.com/team/app?page=TeamHistoricalPlayers&season=20072008&service=page) </td> <td class="leftAlignedColumn"> Sabres </td> <td>48 </td> <td>2,836 </td> <td>23 </td> <td>17 </td> <td>- </td> <td>5 </td> <td>114 </td> <td>1,326 </td> <td>2 </td> <td>2.41 </td> <td>.914</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Nighthawk]

Well by all means, if you played I will never question you again.

BTW, meathead played too.

You can question me all you want, but I am quite comfortable in knowing what I am seeing. You can walk around here like your **** does not stink and that is fine.

But if you think Miller has been on the top of his game all year, you are wrong. Flat out wrong. I think Miller would admit to it.

And it is not about you being critical. Not at all. Critical is fine. But being unreasonable is quite another. Being critical without being objective is a an issue, for one.

Seriously, back away and go read my posts. I never said that Miller has been good this entire season, but he is the reason they are even back in the race, so let's not be hypocritical. Also, I don't think my **** doesn't stink, but your arguments are so errational that it is ridiculous. I've never wavered from my belief (even going back to last year) that this team needs more grit/character. I won't back off that because I truly believe that is the cause of a lot of losses. We just don't have the veteran leadership that this team sorely needs. Too many immature players that need to have their hands held and led down the path to success.

[LABillsFan]

This team isn't about Miller being soft or not on his game. Look at the players they lost this team is made up of second tier players, not one can be classified as a #1, Miller has had this team in many games, but they can't score 3 to win. Look at all the points the players had last year and the lack of pressure on Miller, if he had an off night and let in 4 they would score 5, it's not there this year, so the talent in front of Miller is where the problem is.

[Nighthawk]

This team isn't about Miller being soft or not on his game. Look at the players they lost this team is made up of second tier players, not one can be classified as a #1, Miller has had this team in many games, but they can't score 3 to win. Look at all the points the players had last year and the lack of pressure on Miller, if he had an off night and let in 4 they would score 5, it's not there this year, so the talent in front of Miller is where the problem is.

Again, right on the money.

[LABillsFan]

[quote=Dr.Lecter]Well by all means, if you played I will never question you again.quote]

I too played for many years, coached as well, I won't say it's heart or character you can coach a B or C liner all you want all that will happen is that they will be a better B and C player but not an A player. They are for a particular role and to support the A players, which the Sabres really don't have other than Miller.

[Dr. Lecter]

Seriously, back away and go read my posts. I never said that Miller has been good this entire season, but he is the reason they are even back in the race, so let's not be hypocritical. Also, I don't think my **** doesn't stink, but your arguments are so errational that it is ridiculous. I've never wavered from my belief (even going back to last year) that this team needs more grit/character. I won't back off that because I truly believe that is the cause of a lot of losses. We just don't have the veteran leadership that this team sorely needs. Too many immature players that need to have their hands held and led down the path to success.

Where are my arguments irrational?

The point is over the last ten games or so, this team has played very well.

They played well for 2 periods against NJ , until hitting the wall on day 2 of back-to-back games.

They blew it tonight, no doubt.

But it is not as if this team is horrible.

[Dr. Lecter]

Again, right on the money.

So is it talent or heart?

[LABillsFan]

So is it talent or heart?

For me it's talent. They have a good supporting team, they need that one player to shine and bring in experience. You can't expect to have these guys pull of plays that Drury or Briere made, plus with the attention those 2 got, it left the rest of the team open to get their goals. There is no one on this club that teams have to concentrate on in order not to get burned. TG talked about parity in the league, well he has parity on the team, unfortunately for the Sabres there are teams sho have separated themselves for the rest of the pack as far as standings, however, he doesn't have anyone on this team to raise the level of play of the others.

[Nighthawk]

So is it talent or heart?

I think it is more heart...have always thought that and thought that last year as well. I think they have talent, but it is soft.

[Nighthawk]

For me it's talent. They have a good supporting team, they need that one player to shine and bring in experience. You can't expect to have these guys pull of plays that Drury or Briere made, plus with the attention those 2 got, it left the rest of the team open to get their goals. There is no one on this club that teams have to concentrate on in order not to get burned. TG talked about parity in the league, well he has parity on the team, unfortunately for the Sabres there are teams sho have separated themselves for the rest of the pack as far as standings, however, he doesn't have anyone on this team to raise the level of play of the others.

I agree and disagree. I would love a big time player on this team that can carry the load, but I think this team could survive by changing the makeup of this team. I do agree that bringing in a player like Jokinen would be HUGE, but I also think we need to move some other players for heart.

[LABillsFan]

I think it is more heart...have always thought that and thought that last year as well. I think they have talent, but it is soft.

I agree they have to dig deeper, they need a night in night out no holds barred effort to keep a lead.

[LABillsFan]

I agree and disagree. I would love a big time player on this team that can carry the load, but I think this team could survive by changing the makeup of this team. I do agree that bringing in a player like Jokinen would be HUGE, but I also think we need to move some other players for heart.

I'm not sure what you mean by changing the makeup of the team? But I think a top tier or two players would do that. Teams can split up their lines with more liberty against the Sabres this year because they have 4 average lines. The formula was there last year, with the exception of physical players.

[Meathead]

yeah this team crumbles. crumbles as in twelve of a possible fourteen points in the last seven games. most of those games on the road. at a time when they desperately needed to make a move to climb back in playoff contention. with injuries all over the lineup. yeah crumbled

look it sux to not win this game and they certainly struggled badly in the third. but its one game. **** happens. they still got a point and lost the so on a rediculously lucky non shot

cmon wtf

[Nighthawk]

I'm not sure what you mean by changing the makeup of the team? But I think a top tier or two players would do that. Teams can split up their lines with more liberty against the Sabres this year because they have 4 average lines. The formula was there last year, with the exception of physical players.

I just think that this team has been together too long and are not held responsible for their play enough. Maybe it's just stale or something, but this team just doesn't play with an urgency enough. Trading some of the same players that have been for years would have a positive effect on this team...IMO.

[LABillsFan]

I just think that this team has been together too long and are not held responsible for their play enough. Maybe it's just stale or something, but this team just doesn't play with an urgency enough. Trading some of the same players that have been for years would have a positive effect on this team...IMO.

Now that I totally agree with you.

[LABillsFan]

yeah this team crumbles. crumbles as in twelve of a possible fourteen points in the last seven games. most of those games on the road. at a time when they desperately needed to make a move to climb back in playoff contention. with injuries all over the lineup. yeah crumbled

look it sux to not win this game and they certainly struggled badly in the third. but its one game. **** happens. they still got a point and lost the so on a rediculously lucky non shot

cmon wtf

Things happen, I agree. The injuries I don't consider since Connolly and Max aren't really that important to this team. Connolly's injuries and Max's sparatic play make them more of a liability than anything else in my opinion. This game was super huge, super huge and they fell apart.

[Dr. Lecter]

Things happen, I agree. The injuries I don't consider since Connolly and Max aren't really that important to this team. Connolly's injuries and Max's sparatic play make them more of a liability than anything else in my opinion. This game was super huge, super huge and they fell apart.

Max has average almost a point a game over the last three seasons.

Not a liability, imo. Not when you are saying they need more talent and two of the most talented guys are out.

[Nighthawk]

yeah this team crumbles. crumbles as in twelve of a possible fourteen points in the last seven games. most of those games on the road. at a time when they desperately needed to make a move to climb back in playoff contention. with injuries all over the lineup. yeah crumbled

look it sux to not win this game and they certainly struggled badly in the third. but its one game. **** happens. they still got a point and lost the so on a rediculously lucky non shot

cmon wtf


No, no...I'm more talking about how this team wins 4 or 5 and then they get full of themselves and lose 5 or 6. This team just is missing something upstairs or something.

[Dr. Lecter]

They lost one game. Not 5 or 6.

[LABillsFan]

Max has average almost a point a game over the last three seasons.

Not a liability, imo. Not when you are saying they need more talent and two of the most talented guys are out.

You're right Max does average almost a point a game, usually in games that are in the bag, blow outs, but in games where he is needed, not there.

[Dr. Lecter]

Like last year's Rangers playoff game?
Or his 3 GW last year?

[Nighthawk]

They lost one game. Not 5 or 6.

Come on Lecter, they've done what I mentioned 2 or 3 times already this year...you can't argue that. You get my point and your just trying to argue. I've agreed that they are playing better, I just think they can get better.

[Nighthawk]

Like last year's Rangers playoff game?
Or his 3 GW last year?

Lecter, this is what I'm talking about. As much as you guys bag me for repeating myself about what I'd like to see this team do at the deadline, you really need to stop argueing points that you can't back up. Max has been horrible this year...there is no argument there.

[Meathead]

tim and max not important to the team

credibility bomb right there

[Nighthawk]

tim and max not important to the team

credibility bomb right there

Tim is more important than Max, but he just can't stay healthy.

[LABillsFan]

Like last year's Rangers playoff game?
Or his 3 GW last year?

One game in three years is your answer? You're going to have to give me a lot more than that to convince me.

[LABillsFan]

tim and max not important to the team

credibility bomb right there

I'll take that as a positive. Miller is important, Tallinder, Spacek, Campbell to name a few. Players who contribute on a regular basis are important. Where was Tim during the cup runs? Connolly = (I hate to say it) Lindros

Max, he had to get benched in order to get a fire started which lasted all of one or 2 games. Waste of roster spots.

[LABillsFan]

Let's also look at the fact that they have 4 SO loses after leading in the third. This team has a problem finishing

[Dr. Lecter]

Lecter, this is what I'm talking about. As much as you guys bag me for repeating myself about what I'd like to see this team do at the deadline, you really need to stop argueing points that you can't back up. Max has been horrible this year...there is no argument there.

I never said he has played well this year. What my point was is that this guy is a good player and a contributor OVER TIME. (Hence the timeframe I used)

What you need to stop doing is looking at snapshots and look at the big picture, which you are unable and/or unwilling to do. Focusing on one game, while ignoring the 6 previous is one example.

[Nighthawk]

I never said he has played well this year. What my point was is that this guy is a good player and a contributor OVER TIME. (Hence the timeframe I used)

What you need to stop doing is looking at snapshots and look at the big picture, which you are unable and/or unwilling to do. Focusing on one game, while ignoring the 6 previous is one example.

What is happening right now is really all that matters in sports...IF the team is looking to win a championship. I hope this team is trying to win a championship, so Max's play this year should be looked at. Like I've said before, it really doesn't matter because he's injured and isn't going anywhere.