Why is Belicheck not getting fired? or sued?

[X-Era]

Goodell told Specter that Belicheck has been taping games since 2000.

How many people lost their jobs due in part to losses to the Pats? Do they have the right to sue?

Why is Bob Kraft flipping off the hard working people in and around Boston by keeping a coach who has admitted to cheating?

How much money was in gambling, tickets, etc... over FIXED games?


This is a very big deal my friends.

[kernowboy]

Belicheck said he wasn't aware it was not allowed until they got pulled up for it

[LABillsFan]

Ignorance is not a defense in court

[JJamezz]

This is a very big deal my friends.

Ironically, that's exactly why I think not much will come of it.. It's TOO big a deal, the possible ramifications of their actions are endless, and the NFL is going to want this out of the headlines ASAP.

I hope the bastard is banned from the league permanently, but I honestly would not be surprised if NOTHING happens at all..

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why is he not being punished by the league?? Thats the question

[mybills]

Ironically, that's exactly why I think not much will come of it.. It's TOO big a deal, the possible ramifications of their actions are endless, and the NFL is going to want this out of the headlines ASAP.

I hope the bastard is banned from the league permanently, but I honestly would not be surprised if NOTHING happens at all..
The sooner they suspend him, the sooner it will go away! :up: :D

[Pride]

If anything happens at all... Belichek will "retire"

[JJamezz]

If anything happens at all... Belichek will "retire"

I think that's the best we can hope for.. IF Goodell holds to his word and suspends Belichick for one season, it may very well happen.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I don't want Bellichick to retire. I want him and Brady to stay together and suffer through years of mediocredity in New England.

That would be much much better.

[yordad]

All those years of stealing and studing signals has probably made him an expert on the subject. He probably doesn't need to steal them anymore. After all Goodell said he distroyed the tapes so others couldn't view them. So, given the Pats organization has been stealing, viewing, studing, and disecting for years, I think they are at a huge advantage even without the camcorder.

The head should be cut of this monster just to make it fair again.

[Jan Reimers]

Belicheck said he wasn't aware it was not allowed until they got pulled up for it
He must not be a genius, but an idiot savant.

[camelcowboy]

a couple questions
1) Why does it take congress putting pressure on the NFL for something to get done?
2) How is spygate the government's buisness?

[Jan Reimers]

a couple questions
1) Why does it take congress putting pressure on the NFL for something to get done?
2) How is spygate the government's buisness?
1) Without a Congressional investigation, the NFL would just go on being its monopolistic, lying, ass-covering self.
2) Congress wants to be sure that it hasn't granted its all important anti-trust exemption to a monopolistic, lying, ass-covering organization. But it's too late. They already have.

[camelcowboy]

1) Without a Congressional investigation, the NFL would just go on being its monopolistic, lying, ass-covering self.
2) Congress wants to be sure that it hasn't granted its all important anti-trust exemption to a monopolistic, lying, ass-covering organization. But it's too late. They already have.So we get a congressional investigation about the Patriots destroying tapes, but the CIA destorys tapes of terrorist interigations and not a peep. I just feel there are plenty of things that need a investigation this isn't one of them.

[yordad]

a couple questions
1) Why does it take congress putting pressure on the NFL for something to get done?
2) How is spygate the government's buisness?Fortunes were won and lost. There are hundreds of victimless crimes. Cheating on this scale is far from victimless.

[Jan Reimers]

So we get a congressional investigation about the Patriots destroying tapes, but the CIA destorys tapes of terrorist interigations and not a peep. I just feel there are plenty of things that need a investigation this isn't one of them.
Oh, I agree with you about Congress having better things to do (but not necessarily about the CIA which is, after all, a largely covert organization which shouldn't be sharing many of its activities with anyone). I said early on, in another thread, that Spygate is really an NFL issue, not a federal one.

[Mr. Miyagi]

When it involves a beer bet among friends or dish duty with the wife, it's cheating.

When it involves millions of dollars in sportsbooks and casinos, it's fraud.

Fraud in this magnitude is a indeed a federal issue.

[Jan Reimers]

When it involves a beer bet among friends or dish duty with the wife, it's cheating.

When it involves millions of dollars in sportsbooks and casinos, it's fraud.

Fraud in this magnitude is a indeed a federal issue.
I think, as with the steroid issue in baseball, it is more about the integrity of the game and the precious anti-trust exemption granted to major league sports.

I have never heard of sportsbooks or gambling in any form as being the impetus for any of these recent investigations.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I think, as with the steroid issue in baseball, it is more about the integrity of the game and the precious anti-trust exemption granted to major league sports.

I have never heard of sportsbooks or gambling in any form as being the impetus for any of these recent investigations.
Yes I agree.

[raphael120]

Listenin to Schopp and Bulldog and they mentioned it's not even on front page of ESPN, but buried by the transations links. Definitly want this thing to blow past without any big coverage...no shows on ESPN are mentioning it at all.

[X-Era]

Listenin to Schopp and Bulldog and they mentioned it's not even on front page of ESPN, but buried by the transations links. Definitly want this thing to blow past without any big coverage...no shows on ESPN are mentioning it at all.

Why would they? The actually are starting to LIKE the taste after all the "servicing" they have done to the Pats

[Ebenezer]

Listenin to Schopp and Bulldog and they mentioned it's not even on front page of ESPN, but buried by the transations links. Definitly want this thing to blow past without any big coverage...no shows on ESPN are mentioning it at all.
makes you wonder how deep it goes and how rampant it really is......and how badly it would affect the sport.

[chernobylwraiths]

What is everybody thinking will happen. NOTHING will happen because the NFL already knew this and Belichick got his fine and the Pats got fined and lost a first round pick. They have already paid their price. I guess I am just as pissed, but with the NFL for the lenient punishment. He will only get fined or be punished more IF they find more stuff on him. With how the major news networks are treating this right now, they might not even be looking anymore.

[YardRat]

This is the most serious negative issue to hit professional sports, ever, IMO. Worse than steroids, worse than Pete Rose, worse than the Black Sox, worse than the NBA ref.

By far.

Steroids, although apparently pretty prevalant in MLB and the Olympics, is an individual issue and a mark on the character and integrity of those persons. Same with Rose, the ref, and the Black Sox. Bad character = bad judgement = bad actions by bad people...but it should be accepted that any aspect of life, any vocation, etc, is going to have it's share of bad apples and you hope you find those individuals few and far between.

This instance, though, isn't a case of a bad person...It's the entire damn organization that went along for the ride. Almost an entire decade of cheating, of bastardizing the premise of fair competition and fair play, and not one person involved had the integrity to come forward and say 'This is wrong'.

**** 'em all. The head coach ordered it, assistants perpetrated it, other assistants and players took advantage of it and used it, and the owner not only paid for it but gave the ********** convicted criminal a ****ing RAISE after he was caught red-handed doing it.

Bull****.

Belicheck should be banned for life, and nothing less. Kraft should have the team yanked and be forced to forfeit ownership. Every coach and player should have their contracts voided and suspended for a full year from playing in the league.

It's time for the NFL's version of the Death Penalty. Throw the grenade in the snake pit, **** 'em all up, and let the pieces fall where they may.

The pieces of **** pissed all over the very basics that define athletics...fair play, competition, sportsmanship, and on and on. They should be punished severely and completely so that there is no doubt what may happen if/when someone else tries it again.

Bastards.

[Ebenezer]

What is everybody thinking will happen. NOTHING will happen because the NFL already knew this and Belichick got his fine and the Pats got fined and lost a first round pick. They have already paid their price. I guess I am just as pissed, but with the NFL for the lenient punishment. He will only get fined or be punished more IF they find more stuff on him. With how the major news networks are treating this right now, they might not even be looking anymore.
it will get really serious if Congress removes NFL anti-trust status.

[gr8slayer]

Why is he not being punished by the league?? Thats the question
He already was.

[Mr. Pink]

ok, you say we should suspend Belichick. Cut the head off the monster...etc.

Well, others under Belichick also reaped the benefits of this knowledge and now know how to read, steal, interpret, etc other teams signals. Besides anyone still involved in the Patriots organization.

Should Crennel be suspended too? Mangini? Weiss? Among others.

This isn't just a Patriots issue anymore, it's a league-wide problem. In the age of FA players that benefitted from that system in NE are now elsewhere and can share their knowledge with other teams. Other teams coaches were once under Belichick and now are elsewhere in the league.

So if you suspend Belichick for this misconduct, you need to suspend anyone else who benefitted or used this knowledge to help them win games. Either in NE or elsewhere. Just imagine how many people league-wide that would be affected by this mess.

Want to know why the NFL in all likelihood won't do anything further to Belichick? Because they'd have to punish numerous other people as well. By punishing those involved in all honesty, hurts the integrity and competition of the game more than doing nothing.

[gr8slayer]

ok, you say we should suspend Belichick. Cut the head off the monster...etc.

Well, others under Belichick also reaped the benefits of this knowledge and now know how to read, steal, interpret, etc other teams signals. Besides anyone still involved in the Patriots organization.

Should Crennel be suspended too? Mangini? Weiss? Among others.

This isn't just a Patriots issue anymore, it's a league-wide problem. In the age of FA players that benefitted from that system in NE are now elsewhere and can share their knowledge with other teams. Other teams coaches were once under Belichick and now are elsewhere in the league.

So if you suspend Belichick for this misconduct, you need to suspend anyone else who benefitted or used this knowledge to help them win games. Either in NE or elsewhere. Just imagine how many people league-wide that would be affected by this mess.

Want to know why the NFL in all likelihood won't do anything further to Belichick? Because they'd have to punish numerous other people as well. By punishing those involved in all honesty, hurts the integrity and competition of the game more than doing nothing.
+1

[X-Era]

This is the most serious negative issue to hit professional sports, ever, IMO. Worse than steroids, worse than Pete Rose, worse than the Black Sox, worse than the NBA ref.

By far.

Steroids, although apparently pretty prevalant in MLB and the Olympics, is an individual issue and a mark on the character and integrity of those persons. Same with Rose, the ref, and the Black Sox. Bad character = bad judgement = bad actions by bad people...but it should be accepted that any aspect of life, any vocation, etc, is going to have it's share of bad apples and you hope you find those individuals few and far between.

This instance, though, isn't a case of a bad person...It's the entire damn organization that went along for the ride. Almost an entire decade of cheating, of bastardizing the premise of fair competition and fair play, and not one person involved had the integrity to come forward and say 'This is wrong'.

**** 'em all. The head coach ordered it, assistants perpetrated it, other assistants and players took advantage of it and used it, and the owner not only paid for it but gave the ********** convicted criminal a ****ing RAISE after he was caught red-handed doing it.

Bull****.

Belicheck should be banned for life, and nothing less. Kraft should have the team yanked and be forced to forfeit ownership. Every coach and player should have their contracts voided and suspended for a full year from playing in the league.

It's time for the NFL's version of the Death Penalty. Throw the grenade in the snake pit, **** 'em all up, and let the pieces fall where they may.

The pieces of **** pissed all over the very basics that define athletics...fair play, competition, sportsmanship, and on and on. They should be punished severely and completely so that there is no doubt what may happen if/when someone else tries it again.

Bastards.

How many people lost their jobs due to this in part? Marty Shot who lost to them in the playoffs? Martz?

How many coaches, players, etc... were fired in the AFC East alone due to their inability to beat a team may have been cheating?

How many people paid lost of money as spectators, commentators, league people, etc... to watch or playgames that may have been fixed?

Many, many people involved in this sport or even watching this sport have potentially been scammed by this.

We are talking about someone or a group of people who committed fraud and manipulated other peoples money.

The ONLY, and I mean ONLY thing that lessens the depth of disgustingness to this blatant fraud is if in fact this type of videotaping was commonly done throughout the league. THAT is the only thing that keeps Belicheck and the Pats orginaztion from being the slimy-est pieces of crap ever.

We currently dont know how big this is, but I think we are about to find out through a full blown hearing.

[X-Era]

ok, you say we should suspend Belichick. Cut the head off the monster...etc.

Well, others under Belichick also reaped the benefits of this knowledge and now know how to read, steal, interpret, etc other teams signals. Besides anyone still involved in the Patriots organization.

Should Crennel be suspended too? Mangini? Weiss? Among others.

This isn't just a Patriots issue anymore, it's a league-wide problem. In the age of FA players that benefitted from that system in NE are now elsewhere and can share their knowledge with other teams. Other teams coaches were once under Belichick and now are elsewhere in the league.

So if you suspend Belichick for this misconduct, you need to suspend anyone else who benefitted or used this knowledge to help them win games. Either in NE or elsewhere. Just imagine how many people league-wide that would be affected by this mess.

Want to know why the NFL in all likelihood won't do anything further to Belichick? Because they'd have to punish numerous other people as well. By punishing those involved in all honesty, hurts the integrity and competition of the game more than doing nothing.

BS, just plain BS!

So the main perpetrator who spread his cheating ways should not be the sacrificial goat? Hell ya he should. Just like Vick should pay heavy to make a statement to everyone, just like Clements should pay heavy for potentially breaking the law and then committing perjury.

YES, if Belicheck was far above and beyond more flagarant then everyone else he should pay HEAVY. We dont know who else has done it and how much, I think we will find out before its over. But if its uncommon and Belicheck is flagarant, he has tainted the game, tainted results, affected peoples livelihoods, wasted countless peoples money in "fixed" games.

The clearest and best way to stop people from following someones lead and committing a crime is to send an overwhelming message that you will pay dearly for doing this.

Forget all that for a second. Im asking a simple question, how can Bob Kraft ask people to continue to come and pay him money to watch a team that is lead by a proven cheater? How can he do this in good faith? How can he field a team for the purposes of good sportsmanship when its lead by a cheater?

All I can say is god bless the Bills because I honestly believe Ralph and Co would never stand for this, and yes, I honestly believe that we havent done any of this ourselves.

I would rather lose fairly than win by cheating! plain and simple.

[Mr. Pink]

BS, just plain BS!

So the main perpetrator who spread his cheating ways should not be the sacrificial goat? Hell ya he should. Just like Vick should pay heavy to make a statement to everyone, just like Clements should pay heavy for potentially breaking the law and then committing perjury.

YES, if Belicheck was far above and beyond more flagarant then everyone else he should pay HEAVY. We dont know who else has done it and how much, I think we will find out before its over. But if its uncommon and Belicheck is flagarant, he has tainted the game, tainted results, affected peoples livelihoods, wasted countless peoples money in "fixed" games.

The clearest and best way to stop people from following someones lead and committing a crime is to send an overwhelming message that you will pay dearly for doing this.

Forget all that for a second. Im asking a simple question, how can Bob Kraft ask people to continue to come and pay him money to watch a team that is lead by a proven cheater? How can he do this in good faith? How can he field a team for the purposes of good sportsmanship when its lead by a cheater?

All I can say is god bless the Bills because I honestly believe Ralph and Co would never stand for this, and yes, I honestly believe that we havent done any of this ourselves.

I would rather lose fairly than win by cheating! plain and simple.

How can the Jets owner, in good faith, ask people to come pay money to watch a team by a guy who also is a proven cheater and only got a coaching job due to his old team cheating?

How can Randy Lerner, owner of the Browns, in good faith, ask people to come pay money to watch a team who also is a proven cheater and only got a coaching job due to his old team cheating?

How can the AD of ND, in good faith, ask people and students to come pay money to watch Notre Dame football with a coach who is a proven cheater and got the big deal because of his old team cheating?

Notice a pattern here?

This is no longer just a New England Patriots scandal, this is a football scandal in total. A lot of people benefitted from cheating. A lot of people never said anything about the cheating while it was helping them. Such as Mangini who was the whistle blower.

Mangini, certainly had no problems with the Pats cheating when he was on the staff. All of a sudden he leaves and he has a problem? Good ethical conduct shown by Mangini there. The only reason Mangini has his job now is due to cheating in the past, plain and simple.

And go figure, now Doug Flutie has made some comments! Really? Oh yeah, it doesn't benefit him anymore. He sure as hell said nothing when he was on the roster though.

Why should Belichick and Belichick alone take the fall for a situation that helped many people further their careers?

Noticing a pattern here?

[YardRat]

How can the Jets owner, in good faith, ask people to come pay money to watch a team by a guy who also is a proven cheater and only got a coaching job due to his old team cheating?

How can Randy Lerner, owner of the Browns, in good faith, ask people to come pay money to watch a team who also is a proven cheater and only got a coaching job due to his old team cheating?

How can the AD of ND, in good faith, ask people and students to come pay money to watch Notre Dame football with a coach who is a proven cheater and got the big deal because of his old team cheating?

Notice a pattern here?

This is no longer just a New England Patriots scandal, this is a football scandal in total. A lot of people benefitted from cheating. A lot of people never said anything about the cheating while it was helping them. Such as Mangini who was the whistle blower.

Mangini, certainly had no problems with the Pats cheating when he was on the staff. All of a sudden he leaves and he has a problem? Good ethical conduct shown by Mangini there. The only reason Mangini has his job now is due to cheating in the past, plain and simple.

And go figure, now Doug Flutie has made some comments! Really? Oh yeah, it doesn't benefit him anymore. He sure as hell said nothing when he was on the roster though.

Why should Belichick and Belichick alone take the fall for a situation that helped many people further their careers?

Noticing a pattern here?

BB shouldn't be the only one punished, and I think I made that pretty clear in my post.

If deeper investigation reveals that others such as Crennel and Mangini were involved at any level, they should be punished also. Fines, suspensions...whatever.

This isn't just a common cold...it's a cancer, and it needs to be eradicated.

BB and Kraft need to be punished the most severely, though. Cut off the head, and the rest of the body will just die naturally.

[Meathead]

why the hell do you think the nfl rushed to destroy the tapes?

because it was a really ugly incident that could devastate the league. the cheats were generating huge interest even if for people just wanting to see them fail. that kind of thing could seriously blunt that interest. not only that it could open up the league to punishment itself because there were reports they knew this was going on and kid gloved it with the cheats

just imagine if all these tapes still existed and congress started an inquiry. how many individual video segments are there - hundreds. what were your processes to use them - we had broken down every teams signals and charted the patterns. how much information did that give you - we could determine the defensive call fifty percent of the time

huge scandal

whats the easiest fix in the world? destroy the tapes. game over

yall know im not a scandal freak but this is a ***king scandal. bb should be so banned and the cheats docked even more picks and penalties its not even funny. doubt its gonna happen

[Mr. Pink]

BB shouldn't be the only one punished, and I think I made that pretty clear in my post.

If deeper investigation reveals that others such as Crennel and Mangini were involved at any level, they should be punished also. Fines, suspensions...whatever.

This isn't just a common cold...it's a cancer, and it needs to be eradicated.

BB and Kraft need to be punished the most severely, though. Cut off the head, and the rest of the body will just die naturally.

Obviously Crennel, Mangini and others benefitted from the cheating and would full well know about it. Crennel was on the Browns staff in 99 and no one cared about him. All of a sudden he goes to NE, they're great, so he's great. Why is he great? They cheated and won games.

Again, obviously, the tapes were used to prepare gameplans. Who prepared the gameplans? RAC, Mangini, Weiss, etc. So one can deduce it's obvious that the coaching staff as a whole knew what was going on and used it to further themselves.

Goes with any other team official or player.

If you're punishing coaches for what happened, you have to punish EVERYONE for it's benefits. Why? Because anyone in that organization benefitted either personally/professionally or both. These guys are now all over the league.

So you're firing/suspending and fining guys who no longer are employed by the Pats. Why should the Browns or Jets be punished for an incident they had nothing to do with? Again, you'd have to track the lineage of any coach under BB from 2000 to today. If you punish Belichick for what happened, you have to punish everyone under him. Plain and simple.

If not, you're unfairly punishing one guy for what many did and benefitted from.

Like I said already in this thread...you'd ruin the integrity of the game more by punishing everyone than doing nothing further at all.

And, as far as Bob Kraft goes...if he was involved with this, how do you punish him? Take the team away from him? Can't. Force him to sell? I guess you could, but he'll make a huge profit. Fine him a lot of money? No big deal, he's made a ton of money on the franchise already. Not too mention, who's to say he even knew what was going on? As far as I've ever noticed he isn't a hands on type owner like Jerry Jones or Al Davis.

So what's your suggestion exactly? Fine, suspend, ban anyone who anything to do with the Pats organization? I don't think the NFLPA would go with that one. Obviously players benefited from the cheating. Just look at Deion Branch and the money he got from Seattle to be useless for an example. So you have at least 30 coaches who would have sanctions against them. And countless players. And if you're going suspensions, how would the Pats field a team? Oh wait, I'm sure that doesn't matter to most Bills fans however that definitely poses a problem with the integrity of the game. The funny part of that would be someone could win the AFC East with a record of 6-10.

[Kal-El]

I, for one, am shocked at the comments here.

Shocked! I say.

This poor man doesn't have enough money to afford decent attire on the sidelines.

If we can't allow him to cheat in order to get a leg up on the rungs, well, then I say we really aren't a Christian nation.

[chernobylwraiths]

Everyone cheats. Probably not to this extent, but other teams are always trying to steal signals from the sidelines. Why do you think offensive coaches always call their plays with a paper over their mouths?

I predict there will be little more coming from this. Some sports writers will try to get more movement on this story, but the NFL will do it's best to bury it. The only chance will be if the fans really revolt (which I doubt will happen) or if Congress gets more involved (which I also doubt will happen).

[YardRat]

Obviously Crennel, Mangini and others benefitted from the cheating and would full well know about it. Crennel was on the Browns staff in 99 and no one cared about him. All of a sudden he goes to NE, they're great, so he's great. Why is he great? They cheated and won games.

Again, obviously, the tapes were used to prepare gameplans. Who prepared the gameplans? RAC, Mangini, Weiss, etc. So one can deduce it's obvious that the coaching staff as a whole knew what was going on and used it to further themselves.

Goes with any other team official or player.

If you're punishing coaches for what happened, you have to punish EVERYONE for it's benefits. Why? Because anyone in that organization benefitted either personally/professionally or both. These guys are now all over the league.

So you're firing/suspending and fining guys who no longer are employed by the Pats. Why should the Browns or Jets be punished for an incident they had nothing to do with? Again, you'd have to track the lineage of any coach under BB from 2000 to today. If you punish Belichick for what happened, you have to punish everyone under him. Plain and simple.

If not, you're unfairly punishing one guy for what many did and benefitted from.

Like I said already in this thread...you'd ruin the integrity of the game more by punishing everyone than doing nothing further at all.

And, as far as Bob Kraft goes...if he was involved with this, how do you punish him? Take the team away from him? Can't. Force him to sell? I guess you could, but he'll make a huge profit. Fine him a lot of money? No big deal, he's made a ton of money on the franchise already. Not too mention, who's to say he even knew what was going on? As far as I've ever noticed he isn't a hands on type owner like Jerry Jones or Al Davis.

So what's your suggestion exactly? Fine, suspend, ban anyone who anything to do with the Pats organization? I don't think the NFLPA would go with that one. Obviously players benefited from the cheating. Just look at Deion Branch and the money he got from Seattle to be useless for an example. So you have at least 30 coaches who would have sanctions against them. And countless players. And if you're going suspensions, how would the Pats field a team? Oh wait, I'm sure that doesn't matter to most Bills fans however that definitely poses a problem with the integrity of the game. The funny part of that would be someone could win the AFC East with a record of 6-10.

The NCAA does a helluva lot more punishment for a helluva lot less transgression. College teams that have been sanctioned still field a team, even though they're put under more restrictions then their opponents.

I don't agree with your statement that the league sending a stronger message damages the integrity more than just taking the stance of pretending it's all over. Quality...Maybe. Individuals...definitely. Integrity? No way.

If Goodell and the NFL offices insist on looking the other way and burying their head in the sand, then they are no better than any others who willingly participated.

If nothing else comes of this matter, than **** the NFL. If I wanted to watch staged events with pre-determined results, I'd stick with 'professional' wrestling.

What a sham. This isn't the WWE we're discussing here, or ****ing roller derby...It's the god damn NFL, the crown jewel of professional sports on this continent and nobody should be treated with kid gloves if they attempt to degrade the basic values of fair play and sportsmanship that it's supposed to represent.

[YardRat]

This is too damned funny.

In this country's history, we've toppled the freaking President from his position of power, the most powerful man in world bit the dust and all his dirty cronies went down with him for 'cheating' and destroying evidence but everybody is supposed to look the other way just because it's the NFL and others may have to pay a penalty?

Was the integrity of this country damaged more because the bastards were brought to justice instead of just turning the other cheek and letting bygones be bygones?

Un-freakin'-believable.

[Meathead]

Everyone cheats. Probably not to this extent, but other teams are always trying to steal signals from the sidelines. Why do you think offensive coaches always call their plays with a paper over their mouths?
sorry but this is the lamest argument out there

having the signals on tape makes all the difference in the world

just imagine being able to rewind twenty five times and compare it against the actual defense ran just to figure out the third touch to the elbow means the lb drops back into zone. you could do that for every signal and then catalog them into a database and cheatsheets. it would be thoroughly impossible to gather that data just via live visualization and would be a massive advantage

[THATHURMANATOR]

This should be a much bigger story than it is. The Patriots have been cheating since Freaking 2000. That is ridiculous. Everything they have accomplished is tainted IMO. I have no respect for any of their superbowl wins(which they should forfeit). BUT since this would put too much of a black on the league they will brush it under the rug.

[THATHURMANATOR]

sorry but this is the lamest argument out there

having the signals on tape makes all the difference in the world

just imagine being able to rewind twenty five times and compare it against the actual defense ran just to figure out the third touch to the elbow means the lb drops back into zone. you could do that for every signal and then catalog them into a database and cheatsheets. it would be thoroughly impossible to gather that data just via live visualization and would be a massive advantage
Seriously. Not to say what other teams were doing this but to say it wouldn't be an amazing advantage is naive.

[Ebenezer]

This should be a much bigger story than it is. The Patriots have been cheating since Freaking 2000. That is ridiculous. Everything they have accomplished is tainted IMO. I have no respect for any of their superbowl wins(which they should forfeit). BUT since this would put too much of a black on the league they will brush it under the rug.
truly makes the last 8 years a joke.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It really does Eb. That is the reason the evidence was destroyed. It could have really hurt the league. Think about this. What about all the people who lost millions of dollars betting on the league in Vegas. I can't understand how anyone could be arguing for Belicheck...

[Ebenezer]

It really does Eb. That is the reason the evidence was destroyed. It could have really hurt the league. Think about this. What about all the people who lost millions of dollars betting on the league in Vegas. I can't understand how anyone could be arguing for Belicheck...
and that is why congress steps in...it amounts to fraud....think about how much money exchanges hands do the NFL...it could be big time fraud. I would want my money back as a season ticket holder.

[THATHURMANATOR]

and that is why congress steps in...it amounts to fraud....think about how much money exchanges hands do the NFL...it could be big time fraud. I would want my money back as a season ticket holder.
I don't want any money back but I want the Patriots records to be erased.

[X-Era]

Seriously. Not to say what other teams were doing this but to say it wouldn't be an amazing advantage is naive.
And if the Flutie story that the sidelines were warning Brady of hits coming is true its even worse.

Lieing, cheating, stealing... I can make an arguement that the Pats did all three.

Worthless team, ownership, and front office.

If Kraft had a shread of decency, he would fire Belicheck and any henchman that helped them cheat. He owes it to the good people of Boston and Ma.


I have a feeling someone will ask for it:

http://thebiglead.com/?p=4477

Follow the link to page 12... I think Dan Betard is making an understatement

[X-Era]

Just found this gem, its getting better by the minute!!!!


POSTED 3:24 p.m. EST, February 15, 2008

FORMER RAMS PLAYER SUES PATS

Not long after the Patriots were caught videotaping defensive coaching signals, a class action was filed on behalf of Jets season-ticket holders. (The current status of that action is unknown.)

Now, another class action has been filed against the Patriots based on published reports of cheating in connection with Super Bowl XXXVI. And one of the plaintiffs played for the Rams, whose final walk-through practice allegedly was taped secretly by the Patriots.

According to the Cincinnati Enquirer, former Rams player Willie Gary has joined with a Cincinnati ticket broker who attended the game to file suit against the Patriots in a New Orleans federal court (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080215/NEWS0103/302150021). Super Bowl XXXVI was played at the Louisiana Superdome in February 2002.

The action seeks a full refund for all persons who attended the game. At $400 a pop and 72,922 pops, that's $29,168,800.

Also, the suit demands payment to all Rams players of the $25,000 difference between the winners' share and the losers' share, and of the value of a Super Bowl ring.

The lawsuit alleges that the Patriots engaged in fraud, racketeering, breach of contract, and violation of Louisiana’s unfair trade practices and consumer protection act.

At a minimum, the filing of this action means that, one way or another, former Patriots employee Matt Walsh's story will come out. He will be subject to subpoena via the United States District Court for the District of Hawaii, and the subpoena will overcome the terms of any confidentiality agreement.

[JD]

OWNED!!!!

God DAMN it must absolutely SUCK to be a Patriots fan right now, holy **** lmao

[gr8slayer]

OWNED!!!!

God DAMN it must absolutely SUCK to be a Patriots fan right now, holy **** lmao
Not really, they still have their rings and the NFL won't be taking them away from them.

[dplus47]

but walsh has videotapes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ah49XqKrSeZBsR_Nb8SA7OFDubYF?slug=ap-mattwalsh-tapes&prov=ap&type=lgns) that haven't been destroyed. via PFT.

[Michael82]

Listenin to Schopp and Bulldog and they mentioned it's not even on front page of ESPN, but buried by the transations links. Definitly want this thing to blow past without any big coverage...no shows on ESPN are mentioning it at all.
That won't last if Specter and the government keeps this up and then gets a hearing.

[gr8slayer]

That won't last if Specter and the government keeps this up and then gets a hearing.
It really matters not at this point. The damage has been done and they have their rings. All the can do now is try to prevent it from happening again.

[Michael82]

Everyone cheats. Probably not to this extent, but other teams are always trying to steal signals from the sidelines. Why do you think offensive coaches always call their plays with a paper over their mouths?

I predict there will be little more coming from this. Some sports writers will try to get more movement on this story, but the NFL will do it's best to bury it. The only chance will be if the fans really revolt (which I doubt will happen) or if Congress gets more involved (which I also doubt will happen).
Sorry, but the cities that got screwed the most by the Patriots will be raising hell. It's no coincidence that Specter is the one leading the charge. There will be a hearing, and it will be based on what that Patriot employee has. I guarantee that he has some evidence. This is not done. No way. Congress loves stuff like this and won't let it get buried.

[Bert102176]

he is getting sued and it's so awesome

[X-Era]

It really matters not at this point. The damage has been done and they have their rings. All the can do now is try to prevent it from happening again.

Tell that to the people who paid good money to watch fixed games, the players who went out on the field thinking they had a fair chance to compete, the city representing a cheating team, an employee who was put in a terrible position, and coaches who put in unbelievable hours trying to find a way to beat a team and coach who was cheating!

[X-Era]

he is getting sued and it's so awesome

cant agree more

[Michael82]

he is getting sued and it's so awesome
yeah it is. :snicker:

[gr8slayer]

Tell that to the people who paid good money to watch fixed games, the players who went out on the field thinking they had a fair chance to compete, the city representing a cheating team, an employee who was put in a terrible position, and coaches who put in unbelievable hours trying to find a way to beat a team and coach who was cheating!
They'll need to get over it because nothing will come of this for the Patriots. Specter is after the league not the Patriots.

[imbondz]

He already was.

he was punished for cheating in the Jets game, that's all.

[X-Era]

They'll need to get over it because nothing will come of this for the Patriots. Specter is after the league not the Patriots.

We will have to see because I think your very wrong here.

[ddaryl]

This spygate stuff is making my offseason!!!

I hope the acqusations reign down on New England. I hope they drag in every assistant and former new England Patriot employee/player who has any knowledge.

If this thing is as large as it is beginning to appear it is, then the last 7 years of NFL football are nothing more then an asterik, and the fans will have the right to be pissed.

nothing like waking up every Sunday believing your team has a chance, only to find out years later that they probably didn't.

We missed a wildcard opportunity or 2 over the past 7 years and a victory or 2 over the Patriots could have been the difference.

[dplus47]

If this thing is as large as it is beginning to appear it is, then the last 7 years of NFL football are nothing more then an asterik, and the fans will have the right to be pissed.

nothing like waking up every Sunday believing your team has a chance, only to find out years later that they probably didn't.

We missed a wildcard opportunity or 2 over the past 7 years and a victory or 2 over the Patriots could have been the difference.

the important thing about what you said here (and i agree with it, pretty much), is that within those 7 years, the NFL has blown up in popularity. it has become a money machine.

IMO, that's why goodell is attempting to cover this up and that's why the other owners are reluctant to say anything about this (other than rooney, who said the cheating didn't hurt the steelers). they're all sharing the same profits.

they do need to be aware of where those profits come from, though. this will be an interesting one to watch...

[X-Era]

the important thing about what you said here (and i agree with it, pretty much), is that within those 7 years, the NFL has blown up in popularity. it has become a money machine.

IMO, that's why goodell is attempting to cover this up and that's why the other owners are reluctant to say anything about this (other than rooney, who said the cheating didn't hurt the steelers). they're all sharing the same profits.

they do need to be aware of where those profits come from, though. this will be an interesting one to watch...

Theres no way it gets blown over at this point, theres too much momentum

[Michael82]

Theres no way it gets blown over at this point, theres too much momentum
Exactly! Plus, the government guys love getting their faces on TV. I guarantee that there will be a hearing. I will be watching and laughing when Matt Walsh spills the beans and Bill Belichick has to face Congress. :snicker:

[El Guapo]

Exactly! Plus, the government guys love getting their faces on TV. I guarantee that there will be a hearing. I will be watching and laughing when Matt Walsh spills the beans and Bill Belichick has to face Congress. :snicker:

I hate Congressional hearings, but I'll probably take off work to watch this one.