Here's what happened guys

[Mr. Miyagi]

Here's what really happened, the only way it makes sense.

1. The Jets blew the whistle on the Patriots for taping their defensive signals. The guy was caught taping from the sidelines, and then taping from the tunnel.

Argument: Per Bellichick they didn't know it was against the rules, that he interpreted it wrong.

Fact: If they didn't know it was wrong, then why was the guy snooping around? Why wouldn't he challenge his ejection out of the stadium? They knew it was against the rules.

2. It blew up in the news, forcing the NFL to investigate the incident.

Argument: Per Goodell, the NFL voluntarily disclosed it to the public, and launched the investigation. There's nothing to hide.

Fact: Wrong. The media got a hold of the incident, didn't come from the NFL voluntarily.

3. The Patriots were required to turn over all tapes and notes by the NFL.

Argument: They turned over all the evidence, so they have nothing to hide.

Fact: They did not turn anything over until 5 days after the initial request. Plenty of time to sort through what they wanted to turn over, and what to shred.

4. Three days after receiving and reviewing the evidence, the NFL promptly destroyed everything.

Argument: Per Goodell, there was nothing suggesting any further wrongdoing or unfair advantage to the Patriots in any of their previous games and seasons. But they did not want other teams to get a hold of the tapes, so they destroyed it all.

Fact: First, if the tapes didn't help the Patriots, why would you care if anyone else got a hold of it? And why couldn't they just lock it up somewhere, digitize all evidence for ease of storage if necessary, for future reference? In any other public and/or private organizations, documentation for up to 7 years is required. Not wanting anyone else to have it is a terrible excuse. The real reason they destroyed it is because the Patriots gave them evidence of not only themselves cheating, but a lot of other teams cheating, through all of their 3 SuperBowls as well as other teams' SBs. Goodell saw this and went holy crap, if this comes out we're all doomed. It's easier to apologize for destroying the evidence than to apologize for destroying the league. So now when people ask him questions about the tapes, they can say whatever was on the tapes they want.

5. Patriot suckups and apologists for the league, including Solomon Wilcot of Sirius NFL Radio continue to defend the Patriots for having done nothing wrong, and all those wins were legit, because we can't prove otherwise. Well duh! That's why they destroyed the evidence! And if they really had any unfair advantage in any of those games, you bet your ass they could affect the outcome. Brady could know what the defense was doing, and made plays that exploited that particular defensive play. It is all connected.

At this point there isn't much we can do about it. They aren't going to take away people's SuperBowl rings, or put astericks next to their records. The most the league would do is force Bellichick out of the game, and take away more draft picks. But the damage is done. Any further inquiry is solely for our satisfaction of our curiosity and need for justice.

[Goobylal]

Whether the NFL chooses to do anything is another issue entirely. But an analogous case is OJ Simpson's trial. In the eyes of the law, he was "proven innocent," but everyone knew he was guilty. That's the most I expect to get out of this.

[trapezeus]

the one wierd thing about taping and feeding to the QB's is "why didn't bledsoe excel in 2000 and 2001 with this info?"

or right, he's too stubborn to learn anything. :-)

[Mr. Miyagi]

The taping is just data collection. You still need time to analyze your data and draw conclusions, to understand what they mean. Maybe it took that long to figure all what all those signals mean and implement the counter system.

[DraftBoy]

My only issue with this is that if the tapes showed that they only stole signals to me that is no big tragedy. Stealing signals is a part of every sport at every level. It does not guarantee victory, however the purposeful taping of said signals is a clear violation. Should they have gotten more punishment? Probably, but they didnt just get a slap on the wrist either.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Specter on the NFL's destroying the tapes so quickly, before disclosing to anyone what is contained in them:


There was an enormous amount of haste.

On Goodell's reason for destroying the tapes, trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping:


What's that got to do with it? There's an admission of guilt, you preserve the evidence. All you have to do is lock up the tapes.

Can't argue with any of that.

Specter has also threatend with the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers as well as Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

Take it all the way I say.

[DraftBoy]

Specter on the NFL's destroying the tapes so quickly, before disclosing to anyone what is contained in them:



On Goodell's reason for destroying the tapes, trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping:



Can't argue with any of that.

Specter has also threatend with the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers as well as Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

Take it all the way I say.

You dont want the NFL to lose its anti-trust exemption

[Mr. Miyagi]

The NFL doesn't either. That's why it will take it a lot farther. Better to sacrifice one team than to let it drag the whole league down. Single out the Patriots and let it take the fall.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Mark my words. This is exactly how it happened. Nothing else makes any common sense.

[Michael82]

Here's what really happened, the only way it makes sense.

1. The Jets blew the whistle on the Patriots for taping their defensive signals. The guy was caught taping from the sidelines, and then taping from the tunnel.

Argument: Per Bellichick they didn't know it was against the rules, that he interpreted it wrong.

Fact: If they didn't know it was wrong, then why was the guy snooping around? Why wouldn't he challenge his ejection out of the stadium? They knew it was against the rules.

2. It blew up in the news, forcing the NFL to investigate the incident.

Argument: Per Goodell, the NFL voluntarily disclosed it to the public, and launched the investigation. There's nothing to hide.

Fact: Wrong. The media got a hold of the incident, didn't come from the NFL voluntarily.

3. The Patriots were required to turn over all tapes and notes by the NFL.

Argument: They turned over all the evidence, so they have nothing to hide.

Fact: They did not turn anything over until 5 days after the initial request. Plenty of time to sort through what they wanted to turn over, and what to shred.

4. Three days after receiving and reviewing the evidence, the NFL promptly destroyed everything.

Argument: Per Goodell, there was nothing suggesting any further wrongdoing or unfair advantage to the Patriots in any of their previous games and seasons. But they did not want other teams to get a hold of the tapes, so they destroyed it all.

Fact: First, if the tapes didn't help the Patriots, why would you care if anyone else got a hold of it? And why couldn't they just lock it up somewhere, digitize all evidence for ease of storage if necessary, for future reference? In any other public and/or private organizations, documentation for up to 7 years is required. Not wanting anyone else to have it is a terrible excuse. The real reason they destroyed it is because the Patriots gave them evidence of not only themselves cheating, but a lot of other teams cheating, through all of their 3 SuperBowls as well as other teams' SBs. Goodell saw this and went holy crap, if this comes out we're all doomed. It's easier to apologize for destroying the evidence than to apologize for destroying the league. So now when people ask him questions about the tapes, they can say whatever was on the tapes they want.

5. Patriot suckups and apologists for the league, including Solomon Wilcot of Sirius NFL Radio continue to defend the Patriots for having done nothing wrong, and all those wins were legit, because we can't prove otherwise. Well duh! That's why they destroyed the evidence! And if they really had any unfair advantage in any of those games, you bet your ass they could affect the outcome. Brady could know what the defense was doing, and made plays that exploited that particular defensive play. It is all connected.

At this point there isn't much we can do about it. They aren't going to take away people's SuperBowl rings, or put astericks next to their records. The most the league would do is force Bellichick out of the game, and take away more draft picks. But the damage is done. Any further inquiry is solely for our satisfaction of our curiosity and need for justice.
Excellent post! :bf1:

[DynaPaul]

My question is: Where is NE39 when we need someone to explain how this is all untrue and just a misunderstanding?

[feelthepain]

My question is: Where is NE39 when we need someone to explain how this is all untrue and just a misunderstanding?

My guess, he's tired of explaining! I'd rather be a Bills fan and have four SB loses in a row then to get drilled constantly about how my favorite team cheated "HARD" with every win. Pat fans are reaping what they sew. Boo frikin hoo!!

[gr8slayer]

I just hope that it brings down the evil empire.

[Ickybaluky]

When you really separate facts from conjecture, there isn't much evidence beyond the taping of signals, which is what the punishment was about.

Here is how the rule reads:


Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.

That last part is what got Belichick in trouble. He felt he wasn't breaking the rules as long as he didn't use it that game. He got cute, and was slapped on the dick because of it.

To hear Belichick's explanation:


Just going back over the whole taping incident, if I contacted the league and asked them about the practice, I'm sure they would have told me - as they have done - that it is not permissible. Then I could have avoided all of this. I take responsibility for it. Even though I felt there was a gray area in the rule and I misinterpreted the rule, that was my mistake and we've been penalized for it. I apologize to everybody that is involved - the league, the other teams, the fans, our team, for the amount of conversation and dialogue that it's caused. I misinterpreted the rule. The commissioner made his ruling and we've been penalized for it and tried to move on.

It is really that simple. However, people are going to believe what they want to believe. They want to believe Belichick is responsible for everything from taping practices to being the 20th hijacker. People, including many in the media who he has treated like vermin, can't stand the guy so they are going after him.

I hope they have their congressional hearings. Eventually we will find out what Matt Walsh has. In the end, it will come out that is was pretty innocuous stuff, and the Pats have been punished in unprecedented fashion for it. Life will go on.

[Luisito23]

^^ :moon:....





GO BILLS!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Miyagi]

That last part is what got Belichick in trouble. He felt he wasn't breaking the rules as long as he didn't use it that game. He got cute, and was slapped on the dick because of it.
"During the playing of a game" does not mean "during the playing of that particular game that they're taping". It means during the playing of any game, present or the future. Otherwise it would read "during the playing of the game".

Keep spinning NE39.

[yordad]

When you really separate facts from conjecture, there isn't much evidence beyond the taping of signals, which is what the punishment was about.

Here is how the rule reads:



That last part is what got Belichick in trouble. He felt he wasn't breaking the rules as long as he didn't use it that game. He got cute, and was slapped on the dick because of it.

To hear Belichick's explanation:



It is really that simple. However, people are going to believe what they want to believe. They want to believe Belichick is responsible for everything from taping practices to being the 20th hijacker. People, including many in the media who he has treated like vermin, can't stand the guy so they are going after him.

I hope they have their congressional hearings. Eventually we will find out what Matt Walsh has. In the end, it will come out that is was pretty innocuous stuff, and the Pats have been punished in unprecedented fashion for it. Life will go on."that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

The way it is written, it could help for a game 12 years later, and still be illegal. It doesn't say "that might aid a team during that specific game". You mean to tell me this guy doesn't have simple reading comprehension, or 3rd grade common sense? Or any rationalizing skills what so ever? He knew what he was doing was wrong. HE KNEW IT 100%.

I think you should just admit the coach of your team knowingly cheated. And, admit that several players had to have known they were cheating. And, that this cheating could have, and probably had, significant impact on past years. And, the knowledged gained from it will have significant impact for future years.

[ddaryl]

My guess, he's tired of explaining! I'd rather be a Bills fan and have four SB loses in a row then to get drilled constantly about how my favorite team cheated "HARD" with every win. Pat fans are reaping what they sew. Boo frikin hoo!!

AFC East Patriots foes unite !!!

[ddaryl]

Sorry dude this is laughable. They we're taping signals therefore they had the ability to know what the other team was going to do, and could call the proper play, or checkdown. Maybe they didn't use the tape they were using during that particular game, but the next time they would have studied and memorized it and used it then....

bottom line is you play the AFC East 2x's + a year and those taped signals gave the patriots a huge advantage.

Now it is starting to look like the Patriots have been doing this for quite a while, so now we have years of questionable games to look at.

You are right people will believe hat they want. I will always believe now that the patriots dynasty is a huge FARCE. Which it is !

[imbondz]

so, if Bellicheat only used the tapes after the game, what would be the point of taping a SuperBowl walkthrough...

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sorry dude this is laughable. They we're taping signals therefore they had the ability to know what the other team was going to do, and could call the proper play, or checkdown. Maybe they didn't use the tape they were using during that particular game, but the next time they would have studied and memorized it and used it then....

bottom line is you play the AFC East 2x's + a year and those taped signals gave the patriots a huge advantage.

Now it is starting to look like the Patriots have been doing this for quite a while, so now we have years of questionable games to look at.

You are right people will believe hat they want. I will always believe now that the patriots dynasty is a huge FARCE. Which it is !
couldnt agree more.

[Ickybaluky]

Sorry dude this is laughable. They we're taping signals therefore they had the ability to know what the other team was going to do, and could call the proper play, or checkdown. Maybe they didn't use the tape they were using during that particular game, but the next time they would have studied and memorized it and used it then....

You are vastly over-estimating the impact. The only difference between what the Patriots did and what every other team does is they taped them. Every other team had a person assigned to analyzing the other teams signals and taking notes. The practice was stopped in 2007, and the Pats didn't have trouble winning games. Plus, teams adjust to such things, but changing signals and such.

That said, it was wrong and the Pats were punished severely. Their accomplishments are tainted and everybody is going to view them through a prism of doubt.

However, people are going off with all sorts of other stuff that has no basis in fact.

[Ickybaluky]

"During the playing of a game" does not mean "during the playing of that particular game that they're taping". It means during the playing of any game, present or the future. Otherwise it would read "during the playing of the game".

Keep spinning NE39.

How is it spinning? He was punished because they were in violation of the rule. If he interpreted it correctly, they wouldn't have been punished.

However, this stuff is old news at this point. I realize you want them to be punished well beyond what they were, which was the most severe punishment in NFL history, but that has more to do with how much you hate the team than anything else.

[yordad]

How is it spinning? He was punished because they were in violation of the rule. If he interpreted it correctly, they wouldn't have been punished.

However, this stuff is old news at this point. I realize you want them to be punished well beyond what they were, which was the most severe punishment in NFL history, but that has more to do with how much you hate the team than anything else.Look, it is spinning. He didn't misinterpret it. How could he have? That isn't some run-of-the-mill harmless mistake. He understood what he was doing was against league rules and he did it. Pretending he didn't know isn't the least bit mitigating. And, you pretending to believe he didn't know, is what is laughable.

The fact he did it, with full knowledge of what he was doing, should show you how useful and important he found the action. And, it should give you some idea how detrimental it would have been to an opponent.

As someone else on here put it in another thread (I forgot who, sorry), it would make him (and everyone working for him) some sort of idiot savant if he didn't know it was illegal.

Ignorance is no excuse + no one is that dumb = Billicheat

[SabreEleven]

My guess, he's tired of explaining! I'd rather be a Bills fan and have four SB loses in a row then to get drilled constantly about how my favorite team cheated "HARD" with every win. Pat fans are reaping what they sew. Boo frikin hoo!!

Nope, I'll take the SuperBowl wins. This taping crap will evidently blow away. I've had to live that pain. Give me the victories and some crap.

[Mr. Cynical]

How is it spinning? He was punished because they were in violation of the rule. If he interpreted it correctly, they wouldn't have been punished.

However, this stuff is old news at this point. I realize you want them to be punished well beyond what they were, which was the most severe punishment in NFL history, but that has more to do with how much you hate the team than anything else.

*

[Nighthawk]

When you really separate facts from conjecture, there isn't much evidence beyond the taping of signals, which is what the punishment was about.

Here is how the rule reads:



That last part is what got Belichick in trouble. He felt he wasn't breaking the rules as long as he didn't use it that game. He got cute, and was slapped on the dick because of it.

To hear Belichick's explanation:



It is really that simple. However, people are going to believe what they want to believe. They want to believe Belichick is responsible for everything from taping practices to being the 20th hijacker. People, including many in the media who he has treated like vermin, can't stand the guy so they are going after him.

I hope they have their congressional hearings. Eventually we will find out what Matt Walsh has. In the end, it will come out that is was pretty innocuous stuff, and the Pats have been punished in unprecedented fashion for it. Life will go on.

Do you ever not try to spin something related to the Pats? Once and awhile you might want to so that you have a little more credibility.

Question...why cheat if it doesn't help you? The answer is simple...YOU WOULDN'T! Get over it...your team may not be as good as you and everybody else thought. I don't buy the explanation that it didn't give them an advantage because nobody does things that could hurt them if there wasn't a good reason to do it. The reason the Pats did it was to get an edge. How big of an edge is a question that will never be answered, but their accomplishments have been tainted for eternity.

[feelthepain]

Nope, I'll take the SuperBowl wins. This taping crap will evidently blow away. I've had to live that pain. Give me the victories and some crap.

Pat fans keep saying that, but it ain't going away. Infact, it's getting worse.
I can't see how you can enjoy the phony wins, when no one respects your team or their accolpishments. Sorta like paying for friends, what good is it?

[Mitchy moo]

You need to realize that what your saying is the Pats did nothing wrong, this is way overblown and they need to be heralded as hero's. You keep trying tp convince us of that is the equivolent of LTFF saying that Miami had a great season and everything is just fine there.

LTFF knows better and shrugs off his teams F-ups why you'll sit here and defend your team. They cheated and got caught, got fined draft picks and BB was fined a big chunk of change. Just ask yourself why did no one else get fined?? Why did all the financial burden fall on one person's head, not even the owners?? Has a fine that large ever been given before and not even challenged??

You Pats fans want to curl up and think this is going away, it isn't. BB is going to get grilled by congress and they'll probably call the owner up for laughs.We'll see how funny this gets and how a business man found a way to tarnish the integrity of the game. Go look up Marge Schott and tell me hard how the axe can fall.

[clumping platelets]

If it didn't provide any advantage, WHY do it?

[Ickybaluky]

Look, it is spinning. He didn't misinterpret it.

No, I'm saying he thought he could get cute about it because of the wording. He thought he had a loophole.

Also, I'm not denying that it taints his/the team's legacy. I just disagree on the level of it.

Obviously, the guy was wrong. That is why he got fined and the team lost a first round pick. However, everybody is getting all frothed up about hypotheticals like...

... if he did this...

... if he gets caught doing this...

... if there are tapes...

None of those have any factual basis, they are just based in people's hatred of the team. In the end, I don't see it amounting to much more than it has. Specter is already backing off the congressional hearings, and the lawsuit filed will get tossed.

The way I see it, they are still going to be playing games next year and I'm still going to watch. I'm not going to agonize over something that might happen, or something I have no control over.

[feelthepain]

The way I see it, they are still going to be playing games next year and I'm still going to watch. I'm not going to agonize over something that might happen, or something I have no control over.

And you shoudn't, but the point isn't how Pat fans feel, it's about a HC who never had success ubtil he landed in NE. I think Pat fans are the only ones on the planet not willing to accept the fact that maybe the reason BB is being accused of many different offenses is because he's actually guilty. The reason Pat fans aren't willing to accept it, is obvious. I think the only people on the planet who don't believe that BB is a cheat and liar are Pat fans. Like it or not BB was cheating harder then everyone else.

[lordofgun]

I don't expect Pats fans to defend themselves or the team. I feel bad for Pats fans that they were cheated out of EVERY SINGLE WIN in the Bellichick era. No win under Bellicheat is legitimate at this point. That's how little respect I have for their head coach.

Don't just let it die!!

[feelthepain]

I don't expect Pats fans to defend themselves or the team. I feel bad for Pats fans that they were cheated out of EVERY SINGLE WIN in the Bellichick era. No win under Bellicheat is legitimate at this point. That's how little respect I have for their head coach.

Don't just let it die!!

Hard to feel sorry for arrogant fans who feel it's their right to win rather then their fortune, imo.

[Mr. Miyagi]

It all makes better sense now doesn't it?

[mybills]

the Pats were punished severely.
:roflmao:

My new sig. It's better than Paladin Warrior's stuff! :roflmao:

[DraftBoy]

It all makes better sense now doesn't it?

Not really, nothing new was learned except that the Boston Globe has crap for reporters which we all already knew. The case is now closed.

[Dr. Lecter]

:roflmao:

My new sig. It's better than Paladin Warrior's stuff! :roflmao:

Actually they were.

Losing a 1st round pick and the largest fines permissiable under league rules is a pretty stiff punishment.

[Ickybaluky]

It all makes better sense now doesn't it?

No. Nothing really changed.

The Pats were doing what every other team in the NFL does, they were just doing it in an illegal way. The information they received wasn't different from what every other NFL team compiles, they were just doing it in a way that was more efficient and illegal.

They were caught videotaping opponents signals for use in the future. Every credible piece of evidence unearthed thus far points to exactly that. However, every team in the NFL compiles that same information, they just do it in a different manner. They either scout it or tape it from another location, which makes it harder.

For breaking the rule, the Pats were punished in an unprecedented way. That loss of a first round pick stings, but that is what it is. IMO, it was too harsh a punishment, but most other NFL fans are going to think anything short of Belichick being put to death and the Patriots team removed from the league is not going far enough.

As for the impact it had, I would think last year would put that to rest. Despite being under intense scrutiny, they were able to come close to completing a perfect season. Brady had his best year ever.

I don't really want to debate this, because most of it dissolves into irrational crap that has no basis in facts. It can be summed up by saying a lot of people really hate the Pats and are going to harp on this to attack them. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.

In the end, the Pats will be contending again next year. They will be one of the NFL's best teams, as they have been for a while, because they have a lot of talented players and a solid coaching staff. People are going to continue to hate them, but ultimately the games will be played.

[justasportsfan]

That said, it was wrong and the Pats were punished severely. Their accomplishments are tainted and everybody is going to view them through a prism of doubt.. :up:



However, people are going off with all sorts of other stuff that has no basis in fact. I agree. The basis were already destroyed by Godell before anyone could see them.

[Ickybaluky]

:up:

I agree. The basis were already destroyed by Godell before anyone could see them.

That's not true. Jay Glazer of FoxSports has one of the original tapes. They were just like all the other tapes.

[justasportsfan]

In the end, the Pats will be contending again next year. They will be one of the NFL's best teams, .I sadly agree.



they have been for a while, . Oops. let's back track this a little. They have been for a while because they cheat .



because they have a lot of talented players and a solid coaching staff. . you forgot to add "and they cheat"

[justasportsfan]

That's not true. Jay Glazer of FoxSports has one of the original tapes. They were just like all the other tapes.


thats what they claim.

[don137]

The Patriots won 3 Super Bowls with less talent and in many peoples eye thanks to cheating. Before last season they really loaded up with talent and didn't need to cheat to win...that is until the Super Bowl where the lack of the ability to cheat caught up with them...
Many teams had better talent during the years the Patriots won the Super Bowl but their wins are tainted because most believe they cheated their way to championships.

[Mr. Miyagi]

2007 18-1*
2005 Super Bowl Champions *
2004 Super Bowl Champions *
2002 Super Bowl Champions *

[mybills]

Actually they were.

Losing a 1st round pick and the largest fines permissiable under league rules is a pretty stiff punishment.
They should've taken BOTH 1st round picks, plus suspended his ass. That would be "severe".

[Ickybaluky]

The punishment should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick, which is along the lines of what Denver and San Francisco were punished when they were found in violation of league rules. However, the NFL felt there was a need to prove a point, so they went over-the-top with the punishment. The Pats paid the price because they have been a top team that teams want bad things to happen to, and for Belichick having so many people in the media who dislike him for being unhelpful and making their jobs harder.

You guys in this thread just prove my point. The Pats broke a league rule, which is something that has happened before. However, you hate them so much you seize upon it to vent your frustration. That is understandable, given human nature.

That said, none of it matters. It is all in the past and next year they will play more games and lots of people will watch. For all you claim to be upset, you will all watch as well.

Life goes on.

[justasportsfan]

For all you claim to be upset, you will all watch as well.

.
yup. Just like the Pats will be watching signals closely with camcorders.

[bflojohn]

The fly in the ointment NE39 is the taping of the Pittsburgh Steelers! If you assume that there was NOTHING gained during the taping of the AFC Championship game, then what exactly were they doing it for that late in a season, under the ASSUMPTION they gained an unfair advantage later? The answer is obvious to the most casual fan, IMO, and the taping WAS NOT used for the preseason NEXT season!! Logic prevails here, my friend, and your team cheated in what can be labeled a highly visible game with championship ramifications. Any one who turns a blind eye to this topic is highly biased to fairy tales and bedtime stories!
Note: Taping the Bills for division purposes is bad enough, but taking it to the logical conclusion of cheating in that game aforementioned is the kicker!

[Goobylal]

The punishment should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick, which is along the lines of what Denver and San Francisco were punished when they were found in violation of league rules. However, the NFL felt there was a need to prove a point, so they went over-the-top with the punishment. The Pats paid the price because they have been a top team that teams want bad things to happen to, and for Belichick having so many people in the media who dislike him for being unhelpful and making their jobs harder.

You guys in this thread just prove my point. The Pats broke a league rule, which is something that has happened before. However, you hate them so much you seize upon it to vent your frustration. That is understandable, given human nature.

That said, none of it matters. It is all in the past and next year they will play more games and lots of people will watch. For all you claim to be upset, you will all watch as well.

Life goes on.
You're one of the few respectable Patriots fans NE, but you sound like every other Patriots fan here, i.e. fooling yourself. The Patriots have been cheating, unlike every other team (and if any other teams have been illegally videotaping, they deserve to be punished as hard). You see, that's why there is a rule against videotaping, i.e. because it's an unfair advantage. And the fact that Belichick kept doing it for 8 years, especially AFTER getting caught and warned, says that it wasn't worthless, which is another excuse I've heard Patriot fans use. You don't do something illegal and risk getting caught for that long a time period if it's meaningless.

And let's not kid ourselves here, the Patriots never dominated anyone during their SB winning seasons, much less in the SB themselves, winning each by 3 points. Any advantage would have been important. Contrast that with last year and how they were dominating all comers, yet failed in the SB, and it certainly seems odd.

But claiming there was nothing new is incorrect. The revelation that Matt Walsh was present during what should have been a closed walkthrough (to member of the Patriots, that is) in 2001 and feeding Belichick information IS new and virtually as bad as having a tape of it. Yet Goodell doesn't see any problem with that.

As for the "hatred," tell me, what do you think of Barry Bonds? He's a cheater, isn't he? Or isn't he? He's obviously got talent to have made it to MLB. Why not excuse him as well? How about Marion Jones? Cheating is cheating no matter who you are.

But it's human nature to make excuses for things we like/love. Even when the facts are staring us in the face.

[Historian]

I would love to hear what Weiss and Crennel have to say on the subject.