Specter: Goodell's Spygate explanations don't pass scrutiny

[Michael82]

A day after meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in Washington D.C., Sen. Arlen Specter said he continues to be troubled by a number of issues surrounding the league's handling of Spygate and will continue his investigation.

Specter (R-Pa.) told ESPN.com that Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) offered support on Thursday for his inquiry into the New England Patriots' questionable videotaping practices, saying Leahy is "prepared to have the committee pay for people who travel and investigate." Leahy sat in on a part of Wednesday's session with Goodell and league counsel, Specter said.

"I'm determined to go forward," said Specter, the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee. "You have answers and positions where [Goodell] is saying that with the destruction of tapes that, 'We did the right thing. We're absolutely sure.'

"Well, that is absurd . . . Goodell says things that don't make sense."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3246788

[Michael82]

Wow! This thing could get very ugly soon. It sounds like they are going to personally protect that former Patriots video assistant too. The one that has info about the Super Bowl practice recording. I can't wait to hear more. May the New England Patriots dynasty talk be forever tarnished, as badly as Roger Clemens' legacy was tarnished....

:snicker:

[Meathead]

the nfl could be in more trouble than even the cheatriots

[Ebenezer]

if somebody produces a videotape that they have been hiding this will explode and be the sports story of the decade.

[njsue]

Woooooooooooooohooooooooooo down with the Cheatriots :snicker:

[Dujek]

This could spell serious trouble for more than just the Patriots.

Goodell has basically been accused of a cover-up, and if it turns out to be true his position as NFL Commissioner would be untenable.

[njsue]

This could spell serious trouble for more than just the Patriots.

Goodell has basically been accused of a cover-up, and if it turns out to be true his position as NFL Commissioner would be untenable.

The ? is did Robert Kraft slip some $$$ to Goodell push the whole embarrassing issue under the rug?

[Dujek]

The ? is did Robert Kraft slip some $$$ to Goodell push the whole embarrassing issue under the rug?

Covering it up should be enough to have him removed and publicly flogged. If it emerges he was bribed he could be sharing a cell with a certain M Vick.

To be honest I would doubt any money changed hands, Goodell probably thought he was doing the best thing for the league at the time, unfortunately he was very, very wrong.

[YardRat]

Stupid move by Goodell to begin with. WTF? Does he have a picture of Richard Nixon hanging on his office wall?

What about Tagliabue? Possibly 90% of this happenend on his watch...How much does he know and how much did he let slide?

[Ebenezer]

Stupid move by Goodell to begin with. WTF? Does he have a picture of Richard Nixon hanging on his office wall?

What about Tagliabue? Possibly 90% of this happenend on his watch...How much does he know and how much did he let slide?
whoever goes after this is going to have big brass ones 'cause it could get really ugly.

[Jan Reimers]

How did the NBA skate by with its dirty referee(s) scandal, which involved gambling and giving information to known gamblers, but the NFL gets killed for what appears to me a far more questionable offense?

Could it be Specter's Eagles losing the SB to the Pats?

[MikeInRoch]

This is really dumb. Given that there was agreement as to what was on the tapes, Goddell was correct to destroy them.

[Jan Reimers]

I think there is far less here than meets the eye.

[Mitchy moo]

Good ole boys trying to take care of eachother, sounds like a complete cluster F-.

I hope Roger and Kraft get torched.

[mybills]

This is really dumb. Given that there was agreement as to what was on the tapes, Goddell was correct to destroy them.
Just because Goodell says he agreed with Belichick about what was on them, doesn't mean there wasn't a cover up for something else being on them. He said he didn't want anyone else (other teams) to get a hold of the tapes, so he destroyed them. Sorry but, if they're locked away in his office, how would other teams get their hands on them?? That's the lamest excuse!

I keep thinking back to that sick thought I had about Goodell making a deal with Belichick. Lose the SB, and I'll destroy the evidence. They played like CRAP, wouldn't give the ball to Moss, their OL didn't protect Brady at all, etc. Coincidence? Maybe. I'll be the first to puke if that's what happened.

[Mr. Miyagi]

How did the NBA skate by with its dirty referee(s) scandal, which involved gambling and giving information to known gamblers, but the NFL gets killed for what appears to me a far more questionable offense?

Could it be Specter's Eagles losing the SB to the Pats?
The NBA singled out those referees and let them take the fall. It wasn't the league's fault they claimed, it was just those dirty refs.

The NFL would be smart to do the same here, let the Patriots take the fall and save the league.

[don137]

:oops:

Could it be Specter's Eagles losing the SB to the Pats?

I think this has something to do with it. From what I hear Specter is a huge Eagles fan and even calls in on the sports talk radio station in Philly...

I truly think Goodell knew the damage to the league this could cause so he destroyed the tapes for the integrity of the league...Its not like it was the Atlanta Falcons were caught and did nothing in the league as far as success. This was the New England Patriots who have won three championships in the last 7-8 years. This taints their championships.

[HHURRICANE]

I think this all one big joke and a total waste of tax payer dollars.

Roger Goodell is a pro Buffalo commissioner, so losing him actually hurts us.

He destroyed the tapes to avoid further scrutiny because no matter what he did to resolve the issue it wouldn't have been right.

He also was protecting the integity of the league which I support.

Sometimes the IQ on this board is disturbing.

[HHURRICANE]

Stupid move by Goodell to begin with. WTF? Does he have a picture of Richard Nixon hanging on his office wall?

What about Tagliabue? Possibly 90% of this happenend on his watch...How much does he know and how much did he let slide?

Nixon didn't destroy the tapes.

[MikeInRoch]

Just because Goodell says he agreed with Belichick about what was on them, doesn't mean there wasn't a cover up for something else being on them. He said he didn't want anyone else (other teams) to get a hold of the tapes, so he destroyed them. Sorry but, if they're locked away in his office, how would other teams get their hands on them?? That's the lamest excuse!

Here's the problem - what would you propose now if those tapes had not been destroyed? That someone ELSE look at them to determine what is really on them? Who would that be? And how do you guarantee that THEY don't leak them?

Who, ultimately, is the authority here? It's Goodell. It's not Congress. It's not the fans. So NO ONE else has the right to look at those tapes. Ever.

[MikeInRoch]

Sometimes the IQ on this board is disturbing.

Ya know, it never ceases to amaze me.

[HHURRICANE]

Here's the problem - what would you propose now if those tapes had not been destroyed? That someone ELSE look at them to determine what is really on them? Who would that be? And how do you guarantee that THEY don't leak them?

Who, ultimately, is the authority here? It's Goodell. It's not Congress. It's not the fans. So NO ONE else has the right to look at those tapes. Ever.

Post of the day. Great post.

[joecharb]

Here's the problem - what would you propose now if those tapes had not been destroyed? That someone ELSE look at them to determine what is really on them? Who would that be? And how do you guarantee that THEY don't leak them?

Who, ultimately, is the authority here? It's Goodell. It's not Congress. It's not the fans. So NO ONE else has the right to look at those tapes. Ever.


In regards to who has the authority, your statement is untrue. The NFL has been granted an anti-trust exemption from the government. What this means is that unlike almost any other corporation in the US, the NFL has the right to a monopoly. That is huge and without it the NFL would not be making the billions of dollars that it does now. This gives them the ability to negotiate all of their television contracts to explicitly state the network is not to televise, or promote, any non-NFL football product. That is just a small part of the benefits they are afforded by this exemption.

Basically the NFL has been given permission by the US government to run an organized monopoly. This government exemption does gives congress, and specifically Spector's committee the right to maintain that the NFL operates in the best interests of everyone. Since the NFL holds a monopoly, there is no competition to regulate the quality of the product, so any improprieties by the NFL that are detrimental to the consumer should comes under this review. Therefore, the government is entitled to question the NFL about its quality control policies, just like any other business.

I realize there are a million reasons to be cynical about a politicians motives but sometimes they are just doing their job. Whether you agree with Spector's policies or not he he has been investigating corporate and government scandals since the 1960's. That is what his committee is supposed to do.

[Oldbillsfan]

I think there is more here than meets the eye. It has nothing to with my IQ either. The Senator is right, something isn't right here and it needs to be looked at.

Here are my questions for Goodell:

The Pats taped games for 7 years (112 games not including the playoffs) Do you think it is possible there was more evidence than the 6 tapes and notes they handed over? Why did the NFL trust on the accused to hand over the evidence themselves? Was there more than the 6 tapes the league said were handed over?

If the Pats gained no advantage form the tapes why were they destroyed? Why would it matter if the tapes ever leaked into another teams hands? Given this statement there was clearly no need to destroy the evidence. Were there tapes from playoff or superbowl games?

When the Pats were penalized why wasn't it mentioned they have been filming signals for 7 years? Why was the NFL holding back this information from the public?

[MikeInRoch]

Being granted that anti-trust exemption should not mean that Congress has the right to dictate every single thing to the NFL about how they operate.

So how should this be operationalized? Should the NFL call Congress and ask "Mother, may I?" with every day to day decision they make?

[MikeInRoch]

The Pats taped games for 7 years (112 games not including the playoffs) Do you think it is possible there was more evidence than the 6 tapes and notes they handed over? Why did the NFL trust on the accused to hand over the evidence themselves? Was there more than the 6 tapes the league said were handed over?

What do you think the NFL could have done to investigate if there were more tapes? Get a search warrant for the Pats facilities as well as the coach's house? They don't have the authority to do that. What they DO have the authority to do is to, in addition to the penalty they gave them, warn them that if they are not being truthful now, they will get hit with a much, much bigger stick. It's the same way they deal with players.


When the Pats were penalized why wasn't it mentioned they have been filming signals for 7 years? Why was the NFL holding back this information from the public?

Why do you think the public had the right to know it?

[MikeInRoch]

By the way, the anti-trust exemption that the NFL has does NOT stop anyone else from making a competitive product. So it does not in any way enforce a monopoly. It was only put in place so the merger of the NFL and AFL could take place, leaving (at the time) only one league.

[Oldbillsfan]

Here's the problem - what would you propose now if those tapes had not been destroyed? That someone ELSE look at them to determine what is really on them? Who would that be? And how do you guarantee that THEY don't leak them?

Who, ultimately, is the authority here? It's Goodell. It's not Congress. It's not the fans. So NO ONE else has the right to look at those tapes. Ever.

It isn't even about what is on those tapes anymore. The problem is the things Goodlell has said and done don't add up and sounds like a cover up. It is good someone is holding the NFL accountable. The Senator is also trying to protect the integrity of the league.

[Oldbillsfan]

What do you think the NFL could have done to investigate if there were more tapes? Get a search warrant for the Pats facilities as well as the coach's house? They don't have the authority to do that. What they DO have the authority to do is to, in addition to the penalty they gave them, warn them that if they are not being truthful now, they will get hit with a much, much bigger stick. It's the same way they deal with players.

That is a good point. If this ex team employee has additional tapes than what the team turned over maybe the Pats would get hit with a much bigger stick. Or maybe not, since the orginal tapes turned over were destroyed.


Why do you think the public had the right to know it?

Another good point. However under these cicumstances it isnt in good forum for the NFL to hold back information like this. It smells like a cover up.

[joecharb]

By the way, the anti-trust exemption that the NFL has does NOT stop anyone else from making a competitive product. So it does not in any way enforce a monopoly. It was only put in place so the merger of the NFL and AFL could take place, leaving (at the time) only one league.


The anti-trust exemption does not explicitly stop anyone from forming another league (see the XFL) but it's conditions make it impossible for another league to survive.

There is a collusive arrangement in the allocation of broadcast rights between the television networks and the NFL. Football programming is extremely valuable because football games attract large audiences. Large audiences mean high advertising revenues and, therefore, large network television revenues to the NFL. By allocating games to all four major networks instead of just one, the NFL has become partners with each of them. Their contract explicitly states that no other professional football games can be broadcast by the networks within forty-eight hours of an NFL game. This would relegate any competing league's games to midweek, which is hardly attractive to the networks. A competing league would not be able to exist without television. The NFL's exclusive multiyear contract with the networks creates a so far insurmountable barrier to entry for a competing league.

The NFL was able to negotiate this contract because of their anti-trust exemption. Without it, this type of contract would never stand up to a lawsuit. Those conditions were granted to the NFL by our government for many reasons, some of which are beneficial to both sides, but it does bind the two to an agreement. The NFL is working outside of a free market system that can police itself. In a virtually non-competitive market it is up to the NFL to police themselves, but when their ability to do so comes into question it is the responsibility of the other party to intervene. It would be the same for any corporation that benefited from a similar anti-trust exemption.

[Typ0]

it's not just about anti-trust. In many different forms our tax dollars are being used to support these leagues...as taxpayers we need someone/something to look out for our interests here and make sure we don't continue to get the shaft.

[mybills]

Here's the problem - what would you propose now if those tapes had not been destroyed? That someone ELSE look at them to determine what is really on them? Who would that be? And how do you guarantee that THEY don't leak them?

Who, ultimately, is the authority here? It's Goodell. It's not Congress. It's not the fans. So NO ONE else has the right to look at those tapes. Ever.

Look at it this way...

Belichick = client
Goodell = his attorney
Spector = judge
Congress = jury

The attorney cannot withhold or destroy evidence in any legal matter. In this case, ILLegal matter. What do you think Spector would do with the info if he saw the tapes..run to the nearest bookie and place some bets? :shakeno: Once a verdict is reached, and punishment is handed out, then they can be destroyed.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

How did the NBA skate by with its dirty referee(s) scandal, which involved gambling and giving information to known gamblers, but the NFL gets killed for what appears to me a far more questionable offense?

People generally care far less about pro basketball than they do football. White men in particular.

[dplus47]

What do you think the NFL could have done to investigate if there were more tapes? Get a search warrant for the Pats facilities as well as the coach's house? They don't have the authority to do that. What they DO have the authority to do is to, in addition to the penalty they gave them, warn them that if they are not being truthful now, they will get hit with a much, much bigger stick. It's the same way they deal with players.



Why do you think the public had the right to know it?

you do realize that the NFL didn't investigate, right? goodell decided the punishment before the pats handed over the "evidence." maybe that qualifies as an investigation to some, but only if you're investigating for show only: i don't think you'll find too many people who would do it that way. it also took the pats days to comply with the request for tapes and notes, which were looked at by a pair of NFL employees and destroyed immediately. that doesn't make any sense to me, and i'm glad somebody's looking into it.

the networks pay a lot of money to the NFL for the right to televise actual fair competition, not staged, WWF-style events. fans also pay a lot of money to the NFL, and that amount wouldn't be anywhere near what it is now if the integrity of the competition were thrown into question.

goodell knew this; it's common sense. his solution, however, which it seems you favor, was denial. that's not a solution for anything, by the way, it's just asking for a problem to get bigger. to that i say "no thanks. have somebody look into this."

you might ask "who the hell are you?" or "what power do the fans have?" to that i say "we keep the league in business." the television companies pay the NFL because advertisers pay them for access to our eyes and ears. if we go away, all that money goes away with us.

[MikeInRoch]

Yes, Goodell DID know what the Pats had, because he asked them. Then, after the tapes were turned over, this confirmed what the Pats told him were on the tapes. If the tapes had extra stuff, I'm sure there would have been an additional punishment. Goodell has already indicated that if more evidence turns up, there will be more punishment.

[MikeInRoch]

Look at it this way...

Belichick = client
Goodell = his attorney
Spector = judge
Congress = jury

The attorney cannot withhold or destroy evidence in any legal matter. In this case, ILLegal matter. What do you think Spector would do with the info if he saw the tapes..run to the nearest bookie and place some bets? :shakeno: Once a verdict is reached, and punishment is handed out, then they can be destroyed.

Look at it this way:

Belichick = apple
Goodell = orange
Spector = potato
Congress = big mac

That's about equivalent to your analysis. There is no basis to assume that Bilichick and Goodell are on the same side here.

So should the NFL always consult with Spector personally then when deciding league matters? "Hey is it ok if we change the Sunday Night game to Pats/Bills? Hey, is it ok if I suspend PacMan some more?"

The point is, a verdict WAS reached. A punishment WAS handed out. Therefore, yes, they COULD be destroyed.

[MikeInRoch]

it's not just about anti-trust. In many different forms our tax dollars are being used to support these leagues...as taxpayers we need someone/something to look out for our interests here and make sure we don't continue to get the shaft.

Actually, no. Governments give money to teams for stadiums, but there is nothing in the deal that dictates that those governments or the people they represent have any say in what goes on in the league.

[dplus47]

Yes, Goodell DID know what the Pats had, because he asked them. Then, after the tapes were turned over, this confirmed what the Pats told him were on the tapes. If the tapes had extra stuff, I'm sure there would have been an additional punishment. Goodell has already indicated that if more evidence turns up, there will be more punishment.

you're taking an awful lot of people at their word here.

how is extra evidence supposed to "turn up" if goodell isn't looking for it?

if goodell and the pats are as honest as you would have us all assume, why would they act in such a way as to cast doubt on that honesty? why act as if there's a coverup if there isn't? just to prove he's not accountable to anybody?

i'm going to pretend that i believe everything you say. this leads me to a conclusion that's not far from the one i made on my own: goodell is one incompetent commissioner.

[Oldbillsfan]

The bottom line is when you smell ****, it probaly is a pile of it lying aound.

[Goobylal]

Whether you believe the government SHOULD be involved, like it or not, it IS now involved. Matt Walsh is going to bring the Patriots down, once he gets full indemnity.

[dplus47]

Whether you believe the government SHOULD be involved, like it or not, it IS now involved. Matt Walsh is going to bring the Patriots down, once he gets full indemnity.

i put this in the other thread, too, but he has tapes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ah49XqKrSeZBsR_Nb8SA7OFDubYF?slug=ap-mattwalsh-tapes&prov=ap&type=lgns). via PFT.

should these be destroyed as well? the only thing goodell has successfully destroyed is his own credibility.

[Turf]

Threads like this make this place ****ing ridiculous.
This has nothing to do with football, it has everything to do with bitterness and being sore losers.

[Goobylal]

i put this in the other thread, too, but he has tapes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ah49XqKrSeZBsR_Nb8SA7OFDubYF?slug=ap-mattwalsh-tapes&prov=ap&type=lgns). via PFT.
Yep, and as I said, once he gets protection, he's going to bring down the Patriots. Cheating like this has NO place anywhere. Then they'll be the ones who are bitter and sore losers.

should these be destroyed as well? the only thing goodell has successfully destroyed is his own credibility.
This whole fiasco will likely end up destroying the NFL's credibility and could even threaten their anti-trust exemption. It's been proven that the NFL covered-up the fact that the Patriots have been videotaping since 2000, but whether they KNEW about it all along is another issue.

And the tapes are safe because they're in Walsh's possession and he won't turn them over until he's protected. And he'll probably turn them over to Specter first.

[Michael82]

i put this in the other thread, too, but he has tapes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ah49XqKrSeZBsR_Nb8SA7OFDubYF?slug=ap-mattwalsh-tapes&prov=ap&type=lgns). via PFT.

should these be destroyed as well? the only thing goodell has successfully destroyed is his own credibility.
If he has tapes and proof of the kind of cheating that the Patriots did, it should be handed to the federal government for the investigation. Don't give it to the NFL, then they will just destroy them and sue you.

[Michael82]

Whether you believe the government SHOULD be involved, like it or not, it IS now involved. Matt Walsh is going to bring the Patriots down, once he gets full indemnity.
yeah and it's going to be great to see the team that sold their soul to the devil finally pay up!!! :evil:

[Michael82]

Also, keep in mind that this is getting held out of the news and pushed to the back of the sports page. if this goes to a hearing, there is no way the NFL can keep a lip on it. This will become public and everyone will hear about it. There would be no more burying it, no matter how hard ESPN and the NFL try.

[jamze132]

So basically when Goodell is forced to step down, the next guy will be in favor of the big markets and end up ****ing the Bills over. So when you think about it, its all the Patriots fault! I hate them...

[Michael82]

So basically when Goodell is forced to step down, the next guy will be in favor of the big markets and end up ****ing the Bills over. So when you think about it, its all the Patriots fault! I hate them...
:rofl: If Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder have their way....yup you are probably right. :ill:

[jamze132]

:rofl: If Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder have their way....yup you are probably right. :ill:
And those guys will be the biggest douches lobbying for their guy.

[YardRat]

And those guys will be the biggest douches lobbying for their guy.

Their turn in the crosshairs will come eventually.

[Michael82]

And those guys will be the biggest douches lobbying for their guy.
:puke: