Please don't post Chris Brown articles!

[HHURRICANE]

I am a little tired of him pretending to act impartial or unaware of decisions that the team makes. He's a mouthpiece for OBD and is the equivalent of a used car salesman.

His latest blog has Jim Leonhard as a real find:

"He's a smart, heady player that is usually around the ball. Knowing he was slowed by a bone spur on his hip makes me wonder if we didn't see the best Jim Leonhard out there on defense last season."

The Leonhard I saw was slow and got burned a ton of times. So I guess this is a nice way for OBD to say that we will save some money and re-sign this POS.

Guarantee that Leonhard makes the roster.

[Jeff1220]

I am a little tired of him pretending to act impartial or unaware of decisions that the team makes. He's a mouthpiece for OBD and is the equivalent of a used car salesman.

His latest blog has Jim Leonhard as a real find:

"He's a smart, heady player that is usually around the ball. Knowing he was slowed by a bone spur on his hip makes me wonder if we didn't see the best Jim Leonhard out there on defense last season."

The Leonhard I saw was slow and got burned a ton of times. So I guess this is a nice way for OBD to say that we will save some money and re-sign this POS.

Guarantee that Leonhard makes the roster.

So quit whining and don't read those posts. It's quite simple.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Honestly, what do you expect???

That would be like the PR department of a large company issuing a press release about how horrible last quarter's numbers were and why there is no reason to believe they're going to get any better. Everybody should also be ready to lose their jobs soon too.

Simply not going to happen. The man is employed by the team, therefore he has to toe the company line.

[hydro]

Stop posting stuff so that I am forced to read them!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Miyagi]

I am a little tired of him pretending to act impartial or unaware of decisions that the team makes. He's a mouthpiece for OBD and is the equivalent of a used car salesman.

His latest blog has Jim Leonhard as a real find:

"He's a smart, heady player that is usually around the ball. Knowing he was slowed by a bone spur on his hip makes me wonder if we didn't see the best Jim Leonhard out there on defense last season."

The Leonhard I saw was slow and got burned a ton of times. So I guess this is a nice way for OBD to say that we will save some money and re-sign this POS.

Guarantee that Leonhard makes the roster.
Leohard is a good player. I'm glad to have him on the team.

You can't have 53 Pro Bowlers. Some of them will have to be role players. Leonhard happens to be really good at his role, good backup safety and tremendous special teamer.

Hater. :shakeno:

[DraftBoy]

Leohard is a good player. I'm glad to have him on the team.

You can't have 53 Pro Bowlers. Some of them will have to be role players. Leonhard happens to be really good at his role, good backup safety and tremendous special teamer.

Hater. :shakeno:

I guarantee you or I could find somebody to replace him that can has more cover skills. I guarantee it!

As for Chris Brown he is what he is, I just dont take his word for anything near what the truth is.

[casdhf]

Kinda balances out all the Weiler articles that get posted.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I guarantee you or I could find somebody to replace him that can has more cover skills. I guarantee it!
Sure, you can make guarantees on things that you have no way to back up all day long. What, you can't think of anything even more subjective and vague and less measurable than "more cover skills"? :rolleyes:

I guarantee that Leonhard has more to contribute to the team on and off the field than the guy you find. Argue that one.

[TigerJ]

Most posts of Chris Brown that I see have put his name right in the thread title. So my suggestion would be don't open the thread if you don't like what he writes. Sort of like a manual ignore feature.

[DraftBoy]

Sure, you can make guarantees on things that you have no way to back up all day long. What, you can't think of anything even more subjective and vague and less measurable than "more cover skills"? :rolleyes:

I guarantee that Leonhard has more to contribute to the team on and off the field than the guy you find. Argue that one.

Honestly if Im paying a guy money to play I dont really give two ****s about what he does off the field. As long as his nose stays clean and he doesnt get into trouble he could bury all his money in his back yard for all I care. This is about football not charity work.

As for your challenge of finding somebody who has more cover skills, or brings more contribution to the team on the field well that will be pretty damn easy. There is this guy by the name of Tank Williams, played for Minnesota. He would bring 10x the game Leonard would. Career stats match up like this;

Leonard (3 years): 72 tackles, 2 INT, 3 PD, 3 FF
Williams (5 years, 1 lost entirely to injury): 283 tackles, 5 INT, 15 PD

I would easily take Tank Williams over Jim Leonard, are you saying you wouldn't?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Honestly if Im paying a guy money to play I dont really give two ****s about what he does off the field. As long as his nose stays clean and he doesnt get into trouble he could bury all his money in his back yard for all I care. This is about football not charity work.

As for your challenge of finding somebody who has more cover skills, or brings more contribution to the team on the field well that will be pretty damn easy. There is this guy by the name of Tank Williams, played for Minnesota. He would bring 10x the game Leonard would. Career stats match up like this;

Leonard (3 years): 72 tackles, 2 INT, 3 PD, 3 FF
Williams (5 years, 1 lost entirely to injury): 283 tackles, 5 INT, 15 PD

I would easily take Tank Williams over Jim Leonard, are you saying you wouldn't?
My guarantee was only an example of something vague and unmeasurable. Not surprised that you had to take it literally.

Uh, no, none of these stats you gave is "proof" that one player has "more cover skills" than the next. There are many variables and quantifiers that you're not taking into account. How many games did each player play in to achieve these stats? How many blocks did each throw to help their teammates make the tackles? QB pressures? Closing off lanes? WR jams?

Until you have all these stats, which no one does, don't come judging one player "has more cover skills" than the next. Even pro scouts do this with their best educated guesses. It's not a guarantee. What makes you think you can make that kind of "guarantee"?

[Owen DeBoard]

Honestly if Im paying a guy money to play I dont really give two ****s about what he does off the field. As long as his nose stays clean and he doesnt get into trouble he could bury all his money in his back yard for all I care. This is about football not charity work.

As for your challenge of finding somebody who has more cover skills, or brings more contribution to the team on the field well that will be pretty damn easy. There is this guy by the name of Tank Williams, played for Minnesota. He would bring 10x the game Leonard would. Career stats match up like this;

Leonard (3 years): 72 tackles, 2 INT, 3 PD, 3 FF
Williams (5 years, 1 lost entirely to injury): 283 tackles, 5 INT, 15 PD

I would easily take Tank Williams over Jim Leonard, are you saying you wouldn't?
How much more would Tank Williams cost then Jim Leonard?

[yordad]

Brown is a PR agent. Not a reporter.

And, I would bet Leonhard doesn't make the team.

[DraftBoy]

How much more would Tank Williams cost then Jim Leonard?

Leonard cost 435k last year
Williams was signed at 595k

[HHURRICANE]

I guess I was watching the wrong Jim Leonhard. The one I watched couldn't handle kick off returns and was too slow to cover players.

But now I'm to believe that we haven't seen the best out of him because of Chris Brown's unbiased opinion.

Funny how Parcells isn't afraid to dump loser players in favor of guys that have to earn a roster spot.

[DraftBoy]

My guarantee was only an example of something vague and unmeasurable. Not surprised that you had to take it literally.

Uh, no, none of these stats you gave is "proof" that one player has "more cover skills" than the next. There are many variables and quantifiers that you're not taking into account. How many games did each player play in to achieve these stats? How many blocks did each throw to help their teammates make the tackles? QB pressures? Closing off lanes? WR jams?

Until you have all these stats, which no one does, don't come judging one player "has more cover skills" than the next. Even pro scouts do this with their best educated guesses. It's not a guarantee. What makes you think you can make that kind of "guarantee"?

But you didnt ask for something vague and unmeasurable you said that Leonard brought more on the field which is quantifiable by stats not by opinion.

No the stats do clearly show that Williams has more cover skills then Leonard and I would of posted countless reports from when each player was drafted to further cement that point, but you would of again written them off with some other homerific p.o.v. I could get you some of the stats you want but again you'd just discount them, even though you only ask two technical stats in Tackle Assts and QB Pressures, closing off lanes, WR jams and blocks (which defensive players rarely ever do) are not measured stats by the NFL.

I think I can make that kind of guarantee because unlike yourself Im not blind because the players wears Bills colors and I know for a fact that there are better option out there, but you can continue you on thinking Leonard is the best of the best and if you were in charge then we would continue in our endless run of mediocrity. But hey thats obviously what your cool with, so more power to you.

[TigerJ]

For the record, I don't think Leonhard's intelligence and instinct are enough to compensate for his lack of foot speed and athleticism. He's a backup at best. If John Wendling proves to have halfway decent instincts, there's no way Leonhard beats him out this year. Ko Simpson will be back, George Wilson proved he can be at least a halfway decent starting safety if the Bills need him to be, so I think Leonhard is outta here. But I still don't mind Chris Brown writing a little fluff article about him. So what?

[bigbub2352]

Jim Leonard is a bum, U can draft his replacement every year, or sign a vet, better yet keep G Wilson, and Wendling, and u dont have to worry about another little white guy, who gets run over by every rb in the league, and cant cover anyone an inch taller than him,

Seriously i am all for depth players but lets not forget this guy has been cut twice by our team and brought back only cause of injuryies to other more talented players
Dont waste the money and sign a guy that wouldnt make any other team in the NFL
stop being staisfied with mediocracy

[Mr. Miyagi]

I think I can make that kind of guarantee because unlike yourself Im not blind because the players wears Bills colors and I know for a fact that there are better option out there
Again, you can't make these guarantees because "cover skills" are not measurable with available stats. Like I said even pro scouts evaluate with their best guess. You are entitled to your opinion of who is better, yes. You can't make it a guarantee, because there is no way you can be proven right or wrong, so your guarantee means absolutely nothing.

If you must make a quantifiable guarantee, you can guarantee that Leonhard will or will not make the team, which can later be proven by a factual occurance. If I were you I would go with that.

[HHURRICANE]

Jim Leonard is a bum, U can draft his replacement every year, or sign a vet, better yet keep G Wilson, and Wendling, and u dont have to worry about another little white guy, who gets run over by every rb in the league, and cant cover anyone an inch taller than him,

Seriously i am all for depth players but lets not forget this guy has been cut twice by our team and brought back only cause of injuryies to other more talented players
Dont waste the money and sign a guy that wouldnt make any other team in the NFL
stop being staisfied with mediocracy

Exactly. I'm a little tired of getting sold on players because they wore a Bills uni last year. Leonhard was horrible but I need Chris Brown to tell me otherwise.

[Tatonka]

HHuricane.. i think i feel the same way about your posts as you do about chris browns blog.

[Wally The Barber]

I never put much credibility in anything I read.

[raphael120]

He's a backup safety who got a lot of real playing time in real live game situations which really helps him in his backup role. i have absolutely no problem with this resigning if it's on the cheap. Thats one less position to address. And we all know how the coaches feel about people who "know the system".

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Chris Brown is what he is: he works for the Bills so he has to take a positive spin on the team in what he writes or they will fire him and replace him with someone who will--and you have to know and accept that whenever to see or read anything that he writes.

It is also his job to come up with something to write about every day, even when there really isn't anything much to write about, so there are going to be some days when all he is going to be able to come up with is a puff piece about one of the players. He just wrote one about Merz, another about Poz, and now it was Leonard's turn--big deal, he has to write about something new every day and, if you don't think that's difficult, try doing it sometime (it's a lot harder than you may think)--and, as mentioned above, he has to keep it positive to keep his job, which makes doing that even more difficult.

So, if you read what Chris Brown writes, you have to "consider the source" and take it with a grain of salt, knowing that whatever he writes has to meet the approval of the team and that he has to work with and be around whoever he may write about, so it is going to have a positive spin to it. If you choose not to read what Chris Brown writes because of that, fine. But, before you ask people here not to post what Chris Brown writes, you should take into consideration the fact that, within the limitations of his job, Brown does occasionally drop in some tidbits of useful information that some of us find interesting or of value in our assessments of the team and want to read or know about. Just because you do not like or want to deal with the positive slant that Brown has to put on what he writes as part of his job, that does not mean that the rest of us, who understand his position and take what he writes with a grain of salt, should be deprived of the opportunity to read what he has written.

As for Jim Leonard, well, he is what he is, too: a coach in waiting. Leonard is a very smart, heady ballplayer who showed a knack for being around the ball in college who simply doesn't have the speed or athleticism to be a marginal back-up in the NFL--to expect him to be anything more than an emergency fill-in is to be over-estimating his abilities.

HOWEVER, because of his intelligence and ability to grasp the game, Leonard is the kind of player who, despite his lack of physical ability, is able to help his more talented teammates understand what it is that the coaches want them to do and what they should do in certain situations on the field (sometimes a player is better able to explain things to another player than a coach can). On more than one occasion over the last two seasons, Leonard's teammates have been quoted giving him credit for helping them to learn certain things and/or prepare. While you may not see it or care about it, there is value to a team in having a player, a marginal 3rd stringer, who can do that, who gives his all, despite his lack of physical ability--because that's the kind of player who motivates and helps other, more talented players, ultimately become better players who play better.

Still, you are right about Leonard not being a very good player. He really does lack the physical ability to play in the NFL--and, if it weren't for his smarts, ability to help his teammates, and his hustle, he'd be bagging groceries somewhere. That's why he wasn't drafted and the Bills cut him twice already. And, why he probably won't make the team again this season. No doubt about it, there are many more physically talented players out there.

But, what we're talking about here is a 3rd stringer. A 3rd stringer who helped a converted WR beat him out to be the 2nd stringer. A guy that the team already cut twice. This is a guy who really only saw the field because the starter and 2nd stringer got hurt and the rookie that the team drafted in the later rounds to back up the starting SS wasn't ready to play FS. Sure the team could have found better players out there, but how many would have wanted to come to the Bills to be the 3rd stringer at FS--especially if they had a chance to be the starter or 2nd stringer elsewhere? We're not talking about a great player or a great position here: we're talking about the 3rd string FS job here--a position where the team has a young starter who is going to get the starting job back as soon as he comes back from his injury.

Now, if you want to object to Chris Brown writing a puff piece about Jim Leonard for bb.com, go ahead. But, does it really matter if a guy who is supposed to write positive things about the Bills writes some nice stuff about the team's 3rd string free safety--a guy who has worked hard, helped his teammates, but is likely not to make the team next season because he lacks the physical ability to be a good player in the NFL and is nothing more than a coach-in-waiting who, at most, is an emergency fill-in? If you think that Leonard sucks and Brown isn't going to be objective in writing about him, then, don't read what Brown has to say about Leonard. It's really that simple. But, please, don't tell the rest of us that we shouldn't post or read Chris Brown's articles because you object to the slant that he, in his position writing for bb.com, has to take in the things that he writes about the team--because some of us feel that we are capable of looking past that slant and would like to be able to see if we can find the useful information that Brown also occasionally inserts into what he writes.

Thank God the Founding Fathers were smart enough to add the First Amendment to the Constitution--there really is a reason why they saw that there would ultimately be a need for it!

[DraftBoy]

Again, you can't make these guarantees because "cover skills" are not measurable with available stats. Like I said even pro scouts evaluate with their best guess. You are entitled to your opinion of who is better, yes. You can't make it a guarantee, because there is no way you can be proven right or wrong, so your guarantee means absolutely nothing.

If you must make a quantifiable guarantee, you can guarantee that Leonhard will or will not make the team, which can later be proven by a factual occurance. If I were you I would go with that.


No they are quite measurable just not with numbers which is how NFL Scouts and Personell guys can say that the best cover corner in the NFL is somebody like a Champ Bailey. Is it a definite measure? No, but to sit there and say its not measurable is a joke. However we are getting way away from the argument. Fact is (and has been repeated by almost every other poster in this thread) that Leonard is not only a bad player due to his limited physical attributes but can easily be replaced by another guy. Im willing to guarantee (if I were to be given the opportunity) that I could bring in another S (say a Tank Williams) who would be a better player. Will I have that opportunity, of course not, I already applied for the GM role they gave it to the three stooges instead, did you not see the thread? Sadly I cannot guarantee Leonard will not make the team because I have little faith in the current three headed GM team to make competent personell decisions at this time. But I pray everyday that they prove me wrong on this and that we have an amazing draft and FA period.

[B-DON]

No they are quite measurable just not with numbers which is how NFL Scouts and Personell guys can say that the best cover corner in the NFL is somebody like a Champ Bailey. Is it a definite measure? No, but to sit there and say its not measurable is a joke. However we are getting way away from the argument. Fact is (and has been repeated by almost every other poster in this thread) that Leonard is not only a bad player due to his limited physical attributes but can easily be replaced by another guy. Im willing to guarantee (if I were to be given the opportunity) that I could bring in another S (say a Tank Williams) who would be a better player. Will I have that opportunity, of course not, I already applied for the GM role they gave it to the three stooges instead, did you not see the thread? Sadly I cannot guarantee Leonard will not make the team because I have little faith in the current three headed GM team to make competent personell decisions at this time. But I pray everyday that they prove me wrong on this and that we have an amazing draft and FA period.

Have you seen tank play in the last two years. Injury wasnt the only reason. He is terrible right now. I live in minneapolis and i have yet to remember tanks name in any game or even on the local sports talk radio. He is a bum after his injury. Face it. Dwight smith dominated him in every aspect of the game last year and he is nothing to brag about either.

[DraftBoy]

Have you seen tank play in the last two years. Injury wasnt the only reason. He is terrible right now. I live in minneapolis and i have yet to remember tanks name in any game or even on the local sports talk radio. He is a bum after his injury. Face it. Dwight smith dominated him in every aspect of the game last year and he is nothing to brag about either.

He broke his knee cap, thats a 24 month injury

[B-DON]

He broke his knee cap, thats a 24 month injury

Draft Guru and Doctor? No matter what injury he had he should have been able to do something last year. He was injured on the 1st play of training camp two and a half years ago. Bottom line is both he and leonhard blow.

[gr8slayer]

HHuricane.. i think i feel the same way about your posts as you do about chris browns blog.
+1

[DraftBoy]

Draft Guru and Doctor? No matter what injury he had he should have been able to do something last year. He was injured on the 1st play of training camp two and a half years ago. Bottom line is both he and leonhard blow.


Fair enough, Williams has shown before the ability to be a hell of a safety. Im willing to give him more or a shot over Leonard to see if he regain even some of his before form.

[B-DON]

Fair enough, Williams has shown before the ability to be a hell of a safety. Im willing to give him more or a shot over Leonard to see if he regain even some of his before form.


I agree that williams was light years better than leonhard before the injury. In fact i remember being upset he came here to minny instead of the bills. But now i honestly think he is no better than a backup. Could be wrong, but just my opinion.