Free agents over 28 should not be signed

[kernowboy]

I've been considered how the Chargers did last season.

I felt it was a great performance to get to the Championship game, despite a few hiccups like getting run over by a certain Mr Peterson of Minnesota.

However when you look at their roster it is full of young veterans.

Last year I think they were the only team not to bring in a Free Agent though they did trade for Chris Chambers (28 at the time). Mike Goff and Marlon McCree were also no older than 28 when they signed.

What they have done is build a team by playing youth together and allowing them to develop whilst at the same time bringing in veterans who are young enough that they can easily play for 5 years developing the team together.

The have also made very clever use of picking up players who were not drafted such as Stephen Cooper (ILB) and Antonio Gates (TE). There are some small school players in this draft who can make a big splash in the pro game if we grab them after the draft.

If we are going to use a model to build a championship team, lets forget all these fancy big name veteran free agent signings and sign young veterans who have yet to hit their peak, rather than those that have hit the full level of their ability and are more likely to slide back quickly

[Night Train]

As a long term answer, I agree but bringing in a player for a need position, for example, WR Ernest Wilford at age 29 while drafting another WR in the middle rounds isn't a bad idea.

Regardless of the announced terms, contract lengths to UFA's mean little these days as players are cut a year or 2 into them if the cap figure isn't justified. Plus don't forget the Bills practice cash to cap, meaning dead $$ is no longer an issue.

A proven NFL vet steps in for a couple years while a young 22 year old develops and eventually replaces him.

It's the teams that throw silly $$ at an older, name guy who rarely get the proper return. We're not going to do that anyhow.

We'll pick certain players to make offers to and won't go overboard.

[LtFinFan66]

Age depends on the position. If it's a position where guys tend to have longer careers then exceptions can be made.

[kernowboy]

It simply seems that the Chargers have an outstanding team and certainly the starting units on both offence and defence have been drafted

If you look on the offence they traded for Chris Chambers and signed Mike Goff and thats it.

On the defence, they have signed Marlon McCree at FS.

And rather than dip into Free Agency to fill roles have promoted from within including giving opportunities to Undrafted guys like Kris Dielman, Eric Parker, Antonio Gates and Stephen Cooper.

In all sports, it seems that paying large amounts of money to Free Agents, and I include soccer in Europe, frequently does not bring the returns that were anticipated. There is almost a better guarantee of giving that opportunity to a young guy, overlooked, and hungry to prove themselves.

[Night Train]

It simply seems that the Chargers have an outstanding team and certainly the starting units on both offence and defence have been drafted

If you look on the offence they traded for Chris Chambers and signed Mike Goff and thats it.

On the defence, they have signed Marlon McCree at FS.

And rather than dip into Free Agency to fill roles have promoted from within including giving opportunities to Undrafted guys like Kris Dielman, Eric Parker, Antonio Gates and Stephen Cooper.

In all sports, it seems that paying large amounts of money to Free Agents, and I include soccer in Europe, frequently does not bring the returns there were anticipated. There is almost a better guarantee of giving that opportunity to a young guy, overlooked, and hungry to prove themselves.

Agreed.

Trace most all of that to the Chargers drafting well, which means less holes on the roster.

[kernowboy]

Agreed.

Trace most all of that to the Chargers drafting well, which means less holes on the roster.

But I also think they then give these guys an opportunity as well.

What is Larry Tripplett achieving apart from impeding the development of John McCargo?

Whilst Dockery and Walker have done well, they have cost a combined $74m over the duration of their contracts and who can say if Terrance Penningston and Aaron Merz would not be better players long term. All we did was restrict their opportunities.

When so much money is invested there is almost a compulsion to play these guys whether their performance merits it or not.

And consider how well the Broncos are doing ... they've had another shocking season and this must be in part to the risky strategy of Free Agent signings as they only have 3 of their last 34 picks on their roster.

I'm not against the signing of Free Agents, but I think they need to be younger players with considerable upside, or players where the investment is intelligent (Chambers for a low R2 pick).

[John Doe]

But I also think they then give these guys an opportunity as well.

What is Larry Tripplett achieving apart from impeding the development of John McCargo?

Whilst Dockery and Walker have done well, they have cost a combined $74m over the duration of their contracts and who can say if Terrance Penningston and Aaron Merz would not be better players long term. All we did was restrict their opportunities.


Waiting for a guy like Pennington to develop could take a lifetime. He stunk and, considering that he had a full year under his belt, was worse in his second pre season - a real swinging door. Merz, like Pennington, is a 7th round pick. Now, he may or may not develop into a good player, but a team cannot wait around hoping that every late round pick will pan out. The team needs to be competitive now.

[kernowboy]

Kris Dielman didn't even get drafted yet he is one of the best guards in the league.

Spending vast amounts on inflated salaries for Free Agents does not necessarily make a team competitive. Go ask the Broncos and Redskins.

And then ask teams like the Chargers and Colts who have spent comparatively little on Free Agents what they think

[Tatonka]

how many super bowls have the chargers won with their young vets?

how many super bowls have the pats won with troy brown, antwain smith, cory dillon type guys?

[DMBcrew36]

The Patriots might disagree with the premise of this thread.

[kernowboy]

However Troy Brown was never a free agent but drafted by the Pats

Smith was 28 I think when he signed, and yes they brought in Dillon but he was picked up in a less than stellar years for RBs and the Pats made very quick moves to draft his ultimate replacement in Maroney

Bruschi was drafted, Vrabel was brought in aged 25, Colvin was brought in aged 26, Neal was brought in aged 25.

Only Rodney Harrison has really been an exception to the rule. Whilst they did well with Moss and Seau during the season, both disappeared during the post-season. And when you consider Thomas, he signs a nice big contract and turns in his worst performance statistically since the 2003 season.

The Pats success has been built on their QB (drafted) their TEs (drafted) their Offensive Line (80% drafted) their Defensive Line (drafted) and their secondary (75% drafted or picked up as unknown FA) - only the LBs have they gone down the FA route and it could be said that the Chargers have a better unit here.

The argument is, that we should look to sign cheap up and coming Free Agents not mortgage the team on one or two so-called big names who may have done exceptionally well elsewhere, but bring no guarantee they will bring that ability once they are sat on an excessive amount of $$

[colin]

emphasis should always be on youth and the draft, but FA is a tool we should use to the fullest.

i'd drop a bunch on a younger FA like briggs, or like we did with dock.

[kernowboy]

emphasis should always be on youth and the draft, but FA is a tool we should use to the fullest.

i'd drop a bunch on a younger FA like briggs, or like we did with dock.

Agree with your sentiment in theory but wonder how good Briggs would be without Urlacher beside him or Harris in front of him?

Rather than give Briggs $45m, I'd rather give $10m each to Lehman, Hobson and Miller where we can expect at least one to come through and then if we find a youngster doing exceptionally well there is a far less significant cap hit if we cut anyone.

Look at what's happened to Alexander in Seattle. He's had a great big extension, and has then been out of form for the last 2 years. If the Seahawks cut him, they take a hit, but if they keep him, they have to play him, meaning limited time for the likes of Morris who has actually played better than Alexander.

When we give very big contracts to players, it means we almost certainly have to start them, even if they've lost their hunger or form.

[Jan Reimers]

I think most teams - including the Pats - win by drafting wisely. If you look at their roster, you'll see mostly successful draft picks on both lines, QB, RB, TE, and several other positions. They have certainly built their WR corps and most of their LBs through wise trades or FA, but I think the heart of their team has come through the draft.

I think that's the way we're doing it also, with only the OL being heavily FA-dominated.

[acehole]

Agree..


I've been considered how the Chargers did last season.

I felt it was a great performance to get to the Championship game, despite a few hiccups like getting run over by a certain Mr Peterson of Minnesota.

However when you look at their roster it is full of young veterans.

Last year I think they were the only team not to bring in a Free Agent though they did trade for Chris Chambers (28 at the time). Mike Goff and Marlon McCree were also no older than 28 when they signed.

What they have done is build a team by playing youth together and allowing them to develop whilst at the same time bringing in veterans who are young enough that they can easily play for 5 years developing the team together.

The have also made very clever use of picking up players who were not drafted such as Stephen Cooper (ILB) and Antonio Gates (TE). There are some small school players in this draft who can make a big splash in the pro game if we grab them after the draft.

If we are going to use a model to build a championship team, lets forget all these fancy big name veteran free agent signings and sign young veterans who have yet to hit their peak, rather than those that have hit the full level of their ability and are more likely to slide back quickly

[acehole]

Agree..


I've been considered how the Chargers did last season.

I felt it was a great performance to get to the Championship game, despite a few hiccups like getting run over by a certain Mr Peterson of Minnesota.

However when you look at their roster it is full of young veterans.

Last year I think they were the only team not to bring in a Free Agent though they did trade for Chris Chambers (28 at the time). Mike Goff and Marlon McCree were also no older than 28 when they signed.

What they have done is build a team by playing youth together and allowing them to develop whilst at the same time bringing in veterans who are young enough that they can easily play for 5 years developing the team together.

The have also made very clever use of picking up players who were not drafted such as Stephen Cooper (ILB) and Antonio Gates (TE). There are some small school players in this draft who can make a big splash in the pro game if we grab them after the draft.

If we are going to use a model to build a championship team, lets forget all these fancy big name veteran free agent signings and sign young veterans who have yet to hit their peak, rather than those that have hit the full level of their ability and are more likely to slide back quickly

[kernowboy]

The other thing to consider is over a certain age, where is the motivation? Guys around 25-26 can sign a 5year deal and still have another 5years in the league.

There's always a risk of signing a veteran to their last contract that they are just interested in their pension plan.

And then we look at the likes of Nate Clements. If he truly wanted to be a winner, he'd have reduced his demands and tried to move to a team who have the opportunity to win the Superbowl in the near future. Instead he went to the team waving the biggest amount of $$$ in front of his eyes.

I am more inclined to go after players who represent 'depth' at their current teams but who are biting at the bit for the opportunity to start, and our hungry to succeed. Just because they are currently depth does not mean they could not represent a significant yet cheap upgrade for us - some teams have a wealth of talent at certain positions because of drafting the best available player - in other cases, the player doesn't fit their system but would fit ours.

[raphael120]

When youre a team like Buffalo, you can't afford to not find gems in later rounds or undrafted guys. So far we've found a Pro Bowl LT that was undrafted and a pretty damn good backup running back in Freddie Jackson. DiGi has done pretty well too for an undrafted FA.

But while we're finding they guys who went undrafted, we need to really hit it big in the actual draft, especially on day 1.

I'm still upset about the whole '06 draft.

You're telling me Whitner was worth 8th overall? And McCargo was worth trading up for? He hasn't even played half the total snaps in any game. Youboty is not the "steal" he was...he shows why his stock dropped like a rock on draft day. When you look at our lineup right now, the only guys we're really expecting to step up and be great is Poz, Edwards, and Lynch (who were all drafted last year).

We're still waiting on McCargo and Whitner...and Ko Simpson is a big questionmark too but not by his fault but by injury.

All in all, we can't afford to spend a first round pick on an average safety like Whitner and trade up for another guy who was also a reach. We can't be reaching even with all our extra draft picks...you can't just crap those away when your whole franchise lives and dies by the draft because of money issues.

[Ickybaluky]

There is no question the draft is a key to fielding a good team.

However, really every avenue of team building should be explored: Draft, FA, cut players, undrafted players, trades, waiver claims.

There is more than one way to go about building a team, and a team shouldn't limit itself by eliminating any avenue. There are all sorts of factors that need to be accounted for in personnel: what it takes to acquire a playe, how much he costs, how old he is, if he has any off-field baggage, etc. You need to take all those into account, weigh the risk/reward and make a decision. Each transaction is a separate decision, and I don't think teams should limit themselves in any one area.

Look at Green Bay's resurgence. They have re-built the team primarily through the draft, but have had some key FA signings (Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett) and some veteran players at key positions (Aaron Kampman, Brett Favre, Al Harris, Donald Driver, Mark Tauscher, Nick Barnett). One of their key guys last year they acquired by trade (Ryan Grant).

In short, though they rebuilt primarily through the draft, they didn't eliminate veterans or other methods of getting players. There is more than one way to do things and be successful, and really teams should explore every avenue available to them. The one criteria is winning.

[kernowboy]

When youre a team like Buffalo, you can't afford to not find gems in later rounds or undrafted guys. So far we've found a Pro Bowl LT that was undrafted and a pretty damn good backup running back in Freddie Jackson. DiGi has done pretty well too for an undrafted FA.

But while we're finding they guys who went undrafted, we need to really hit it big in the actual draft, especially on day 1.

I'm still upset about the whole '06 draft.

You're telling me Whitner was worth 8th overall? And McCargo was worth trading up for? He hasn't even played half the total snaps in any game. Youboty is not the "steal" he was...he shows why his stock dropped like a rock on draft day. When you look at our lineup right now, the only guys we're really expecting to step up and be great is Poz, Edwards, and Lynch (who were all drafted last year).

We're still waiting on McCargo and Whitner...and Ko Simpson is a big questionmark too but not by his fault but by injury.

All in all, we can't afford to spend a first round pick on an average safety like Whitner and trade up for another guy who was also a reach. We can't be reaching even with all our extra draft picks...you can't just crap those away when your whole franchise lives and dies by the draft because of money issues.

I agree ... in many regards we missed out on drafting Ngata and as has been suggested trading up for Nick Mangold would have been a stroke of genius.

Mind you many wanted us to drafted Broderick Buckley as he has done little either.

Personally I always feel that unless there is an exceptional talent, we as a team should look to trade down.

The one brilliant draft Donahoe had was 2001, when he traded down from a pick that turned into Kenyatta Walker, and ended up with Nate Clements plus a pick wich turned into Travis Henry.

Thats why I'm in favour of trading down. In a deep draft the value between No11 and No21 is small in terms of the quality of player, but the extra pick we'd gain could be a true difference maker

[raphael120]

I agree ... in many regards we missed out on drafting Ngata and as has been suggested trading up for Nick Mangold would have been a stroke of genius.

Mind you many wanted us to drafted Broderick Buckley as he has done little either.

Personally I always feel that unless there is an exceptional talent, we as a team should look to trade down.

The one brilliant draft Donahoe had was 2001, when he traded down from a pick that turned into Kenyatta Walker, and ended up with Nate Clements plus a pick wich turned into Travis Henry.

Thats why I'm in favour of trading down. In a deep draft the value between No11 and No21 is small in terms of the quality of player, but the extra pick we'd gain could be a true difference maker

Yeah my mind was running with the possiblilities of trading down and the thought of possible 2 second rounders, 3 third rounders, or even 3 second rounders, 1 third rounder...we could get 3 or 4 immediate impactful players that will be with us for years to come.

[kernowboy]

In a draft so deep, I think we should be able to find starters in the 3rd round.

The likes of the TEs and WRs like Adarius Bowman could easily fall so far, not because they don't have immediate starting ability but because there is strong depth at their position.

Whilst I would love our No11 pick to be another Marshawn Lynch type pickup, we cannot afford it to be a Donte Whitner, the type of player we could have gotten much lower in R1 than we did.

[John Doe]

Kris Dielman didn't even get drafted yet he is one of the best guards in the league.

Spending vast amounts on inflated salaries for Free Agents does not necessarily make a team competitive. Go ask the Broncos and Redskins.

And then ask teams like the Chargers and Colts who have spent comparatively little on Free Agents what they think

Kris Dielman is good and undrafted therefore all undrafted players will be good? I guess that you could throw in Jason Peters as well and say that a smart team should not draft offensive linemen at all - just pick up some undrafted free agents and turn them into all-pros.

No offense, but Pennington stinks and will never be good. You can identify all the exceptions you want, but it will not make Pennington a better player.

Merz may be another story, maybe not. You may think that we should have pinned our hopes on an unproven 7th rounder, but I am glad they decided to seek a definative long-term solution to the left guard position. It cost a lot of money, but that is what the cap space is for.

And, Merz ended up on injured reserve and missed all of last season to boot. Pinning our hopes on him would probably have set back the overall development of offensive line by at least a year, not to mention the development of Edwards.

[X-Era]

I've been considered how the Chargers did last season.

I felt it was a great performance to get to the Championship game, despite a few hiccups like getting run over by a certain Mr Peterson of Minnesota.

However when you look at their roster it is full of young veterans.

Last year I think they were the only team not to bring in a Free Agent though they did trade for Chris Chambers (28 at the time). Mike Goff and Marlon McCree were also no older than 28 when they signed.

What they have done is build a team by playing youth together and allowing them to develop whilst at the same time bringing in veterans who are young enough that they can easily play for 5 years developing the team together.

The have also made very clever use of picking up players who were not drafted such as Stephen Cooper (ILB) and Antonio Gates (TE). There are some small school players in this draft who can make a big splash in the pro game if we grab them after the draft.

If we are going to use a model to build a championship team, lets forget all these fancy big name veteran free agent signings and sign young veterans who have yet to hit their peak, rather than those that have hit the full level of their ability and are more likely to slide back quickly

I agree that 28-30 should be our cut-off. But, at 30, many players still ahve another 5 years left which is a typical contract length.

[The Jokeman]

I'm in the general belief that you build your depth through the draft and use free agency to fill holes. Therefore I'm not opposed to signing free agents over aged 32 just as long you understand only a one or year two option. So that's why I would advocate the Bills to sign a guy like Chuck Darby this offseason and select a guy like Marcus Harrison in Round 3 of the draft. Granted sometimes you have to draft for need because you have no viable options to start on your roster. See last year when selected Marshawn Lynch. Yet what it also comes down to getting the best collection of players as well and think the Giants proved that last year when their rookies did some good things off the bench too.