I absolutely cannot believe that people still think JP has a shot!

[HHURRICANE]

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous and I'm tempted to call you out by name.

People JP has proven nothing but continuing to fail when given opportunities. Time to move on!!

We will need a #2 QB after this season no-matter-what. Why would you not address it now and get a pick as well.

We need players not wanna-be's!!

[patmoran2006]

That's what people dont get..

Even if JP somehow ended up starting after Edwards got hurt or played bad, and went on to have a great season.. THe dude is going to RUN for the bus after the season is over, and we'll get nothing for him.

Trade him now, pick up the best offer you can get-- and be done with it.. He does NOT want to be here.

[kernowboy]

I definitely think we need to move Losman on before the start of the season, not because I don't want to keep him here as decent depth, but because we need to maximise value.

However I see a short-term FA, followed by a high pick on a QB in the draft of 2009. Edwards is unproven. He has been asked not to lose the games simply by dumping off the ball to a TE or short. He has not yet won games or shown he can consistently mix up the offence with the full range of passes. Unless he has a great season with 3,000yds+ and 20 TDs, I think we need to be careful proclaiming this position dealt with.

[HHURRICANE]

I definitely think we need to move Losman on before the start of the season, not because I don't want to keep him here as decent depth, but because we need to maximise value.

However I see a short-term FA, followed by a high pick on a QB in the draft of 2009. Edwards is unproven. He has been asked not to lose the games simply by dumping off the ball to a TE or short. He has not yet won games or shown he can consistently mix up the offence with the full range of passes. Unless he has a great season with 3,000yds+ and 20 TDs, I think we need to be careful proclaiming this position dealt with.

I'm just as cautious as you considering I thought JP was our answer during the 2007 off-season.

All I'm saying is that JP is not the answer and should be dealt for some value.

[TacklingDummy]

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous and I'm tempted to call you out by name.

People JP has proven nothing but continuing to fail when given opportunities. Time to move on!!

We will need a #2 QB after this season no-matter-what. Why would you not address it now and get a pick as well.

We need players not wanna-be's!!


Believe it. JP is basically a rookie with the way he has been jerked around by the Bills coaching staffs. JP is an athletic freak on nature. Some may dare to say that he is the white Michael Vick. JP should be compared to the greats, (Manning, Favre, Young), Colts, 49ers, Packers didn't give up on those greats when they struggled.

It's not JP's fault that the Bills O-line stinks, McGahee didn't know how to pass block, receivers can't catch, the Bills don't have a Tight End, the play calling was poor, the Ref. was in the way, the ball was slippery.

Don't be a hater.

[Philagape]

Edwards is unproven. He has been asked not to lose the games simply by dumping off the ball to a TE or short. He has not yet won games or shown he can consistently mix up the offence with the full range of passes.

He threw four TDs in one game, which were four different kinds of passes.

He threw a 30-yard strike to set up a winning FG on the road.

Consistency will come with experience, but we know he's capable it.

[Jan Reimers]

Believe it. JP is basically a rookie with the way he has been jerked around by the Bills coaching staffs. JP is an athletic freak on nature. Some may dare to say that he is the white Michael Vick. JP should be compared to the greats, (Manning, Favre, Young), Colts, 49ers, Packers didn't give up on those greats when they struggled.

It's not JP's fault that the Bills O-line stinks, McGahee didn't know how to pass block, receivers can't catch, the Bills don't have a Tight End, the play calling was poor, the Ref. was in the way, the ball was slippery.

Don't be a hater.
TD, do I detect just a bit of sarcasm here?

[hydro]

TD, do I detect just a bit of sarcasm here?
It's really hard to tell from him sometimes. But this has to be sarcastic...

[im4bflo]

so what?

[VeggieMan14]

Believe it. JP is basically a rookie with the way he has been jerked around by the Bills coaching staffs. JP is an athletic freak on nature. Some may dare to say that he is the white Michael Vick. JP should be compared to the greats, (Manning, Favre, Young), Colts, 49ers, Packers didn't give up on those greats when they struggled.

It's not JP's fault that the Bills O-line stinks, McGahee didn't know how to pass block, receivers can't catch, the Bills don't have a Tight End, the play calling was poor, the Ref. was in the way, the ball was slippery.

Don't be a hater.

If your not being sarcastic your an idiot. if you are being sarcastic good one :clap:

[SquishDaFish]

Can we just get past this argument already.

[YardRat]

I'd be stunned if he was still on the team by the time mini-camps kick in.

Edwards may not be the answer for the long term and it's true he still has to prove himself, but he is the man going into this season and keeping JP will just harm the process.

[Jan Reimers]

I think JP may still have a shot, but not in Buffalo.

[ddaryl]

JP looked pretty good towards the end of 2006.. Regressed in 2007 but in all honesty Edwards didn't do a heluva alot in the same offense.

I agree that Edwards is our starter, but JP knows our O, and he is a high character guy. JP also doesn't cost us much to keep.

As far as I'm concerned JP could still improve with a better OC and WR's. My argument is if we cannot move JP for a 1st day pick then keep him as our back up. We can still draft a 3rd rd QB this year as a 3rd stringer who'd be ready for 2nd string duty next year.

And if Edwards is all that then he'll handle the fact JP is sitting there waiting for his opprotunity to re-establish himself. If Edwards can't handle that pressure then how is he going to handle the QB position in general?

I just do not understand the bile hatred for JP or the fact that every single fan here has admitted that our playcalling and OC sucked balls... which has a direct effect on anyone who QB'd the Bills. Edwards looked just as pathetic as JP at times.


Personally if Edwards goes down I want to see what JP does with a different OC and a few more weapons in the arsenal.

but if someone gives us a 2nd rd pick then trade him... otherwise keep him, and that is what the Bills will do.

[HHURRICANE]

so what?

Because people would rather waste a chance at getting a pick on hopes JP's 5th chance will be the charm.

[Philagape]

I just do not understand the bile hatred for JP or the fact that every single fan here has admitted that our playcalling and OC sucked balls... which has a direct effect on anyone who QB'd the Bills. Edwards looked just as pathetic as JP at times.


What I don't understand is how people can't understand it. Edwards was a rookie. Rookie QBs usually play poorly. That's normal for a rookie. When evaluating a rookie QB, you don't just measure the raw stats; you look at aspects of his game that give reason to hope for improvement in the future.
Losman's slightly better numbers (setting aside the extreme weather Edwards had to play in twice) are far less than what a third-year starter should have over a rookie.
And evaluating a QB means watching his passes and decisions. Those are two factors that have nothing to do with OC or receivers. Better play calling and receivers will improve any QB's stats, but that says nothing about the QB himself. JP defenders label any part of the team except the QB. They call the receivers bad and the coaching bad, but what does a veteran QB have to do before he's called bad??

[TacklingDummy]

TD, do I detect just a bit of sarcasm here?

Just some. :up:

[TacklingDummy]

Can we just get past this argument already.

Says the licker who had his lips planted firmly on JP's ass. :snicker:

[Yasgur's Farm]

"Licker" is a violation... I prefer to use liquor instead.

[im4bflo]

Because people would rather waste a chance at getting a pick on hopes JP's 5th chance will be the charm.

Dude, when I said " so what ", I meant that you just posted your 10,986th negative JP opinion, and it doesn't matter as much as your first.
So " so what "! We've heard it before, so :stfu: already! savvy?

[Mad Max]

People JP has proven nothing but continuing to fail when given opportunities. Time to move on!!



Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice I'm a farking moron.

Rob Johnson had me fooled. The "prototype" body, arm, speed, look...blah blah blah. F*c* that ****e (you ever see Brady or Rothlisberger in a shirtless picture...bwahaha), give me a guy with a good arm, good athletiticsm, over 6-2 with a GREAT football IQ, thanks. Is TE that guy, I don't know yet...but JP sho ain't.

[Philagape]

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice I'm a farking moron.

Rob Johnson had me fooled. The "prototype" body, arm, speed, look...blah blah blah. F*c* that ****e (you ever see Brady or Rothlisberger in a shirtless picture...bwahaha), give me a guy with a good arm, good athletiticsm, over 6-2 with a GREAT football IQ, thanks. Is TE that guy, I don't know yet...but JP sho ain't.

The similarities between RJ and JP are eerie. Except RJ was a better passer.

And those who say JP hasn't gotten enough of a chance yet must think the same thing about RJ since JP has played more games here than RJ did.

[TacklingDummy]

Dude, when I said " so what ", I meant that you just posted your 10,986th negative JP opinion, and it doesn't matter as much as your first.
So " so what "! We've heard it before, so :stfu: already! savvy?

Actually hhurricane was a big JP Licker until this past season.

[SquishDaFish]

Says the licker who had his lips planted firmly on JP's ass. :snicker:

I dont have my lips planted anywhere ass. I root for the BILLS and dont hate on any BILLS player other then Tim Anderson

[Mad Max]

...and dont hate on any BILLS player other then Tim Anderson

bwahahaha

Ok I gotta start a new thread on this subject, thanks.

[TacklingDummy]

I dont have my lips planted anywhere ass. I root for the BILLS and dont hate on any BILLS player other then Tim Anderson

And I don't hate on Bills players not named Johnson or Losman. So what's the difference?

[HHURRICANE]

Actually hhurricane was a big JP Licker until this past season.

Bingo. I actually let his play dictate my opinion. Not my hopes and dreams.

[Mitchy moo]

Like begging other posters to give you blow jobs?

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=70802&highlight=dick

I'm proud of your Panthers tonight Bling, they kept the Sabres in the 8th seed and kept philly on the outside.

[YardRat]

I would be OK with JP returning to the team this year if he and his agent would have handled the situation better publicly, but they didn't and it created a situation that dictates his seperation from the team.

[ddaryl]

I would be OK with JP returning to the team this year if he and his agent would have handled the situation better publicly, but they didn't and it created a situation that dictates his seperation from the team.

I still don't think what JP's agent said is damaging. We hear this stuff all the time... If his agent was constantly addressing hte media, which he ain't, then we would have a problem. But JP's agent asked for a trade one time, and also mentioned that if JP is to remain a Bill he will honor his contract.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Exactly... I don't see the public thing being handled any better than it has been.

[justasportsfan]

People JP has proven nothing but continuing to fail when given opportunities. Time to move on!!


what oppurtunities are you talking about? Mularkey and Fairchild? Lets bring those two back and let them coach TE . You'll be saying the same thing about TE in a couple of years and how he continues to fail inspite of the so called opportunities.

How can we move on when you started a JP thread? Think of it.

[HHURRICANE]

what oppurtunities are you talking about? Mularkey and Fairchild? Lets bring those two back and let them coach TE . You'll be saying the same thing about TE in a couple of years and how he continues to fail inspite of the so called opportunities.

How can we move on when you started a JP thread? Think of it.

I didn't start this thread until I read a bunch of posts implying that JP should stay as the backup and that he might compete in camp for the starting job.

[im4bflo]

I didn't start this thread until I read a bunch of posts implying that JP should stay as the backup and that he might compete in camp for the starting job.

If that happened, JP would get his starting job back.

[HHURRICANE]

If that happened, JP would get his starting job back.

Justa, this is exactly why I started the thread. I'm ready to move on but some are not.

[justasportsfan]

Justa, this is exactly why I started the thread. I'm ready to move on but some are not.
JP is still a bill. Im4bflo made a legit comment. Are you worried that JP will be better than Trent at camp ?

[justasportsfan]

And those who say JP hasn't gotten enough of a chance yet must think the same thing about RJ since JP has played more games here than RJ did.thats because Robosack was a chinadoll. He had more than enough chances to play more games if he didn't keep getting hurt.

The only advantage JP had over RJ in playing more games is that he was more durable with a crappier OL and arguably a crappier coaching staff .

Not a single qb would have a prayer under the same circumstances JP went through. Not Eli, not Rivers or Ben.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Justa, this is exactly why I started the thread. I'm ready to move on but some are not.Where does it say that you get to dictate when we should move on?

[im4bflo]

Know-it-all Judge HHerricane, thinks he's right, and until we believe whatever he says, we must be wrong :lmao:
And good point justa, are you afraid JP would get his job back if there was a fair competition at camp? If both stay, I think it's fair.
But the Judge has to rule on it :snicker2:

[justasportsfan]

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice I'm a farking moron.

Rob Johnson had me fooled. The "prototype" body, arm, speed, look...blah blah blah. F*c* that ****e (you ever see Brady or Rothlisberger in a shirtless picture...bwahaha), give me a guy with a good arm, good athletiticsm, over 6-2 with a GREAT football IQ, thanks. Is TE that guy, I don't know yet...but JP sho ain't.
exactly. Ralphy fooled us once when he picked Robosack over Flutie. This decision has Ralphy's hand print written all over it. While I do like TE and have said so several times, my worry is that we may have prematurely given up on JP who was never given achance to succeed by being in a crappy team .

Another example is Henry over Willis. That was premature too although I can't be *****ing much over that decision because I'm very pleased with Lynch.

[djjimkelly]

once again i must say parcells is interested in JP damn i dont think he knows as much about QBs as most on the board.

and go listen to AVP on bills main page he sounds to be very interested in JP staying.

i at this point dont care. becuz the man with the headset wouldnt be good enough to win with joe montana at QB

[justasportsfan]

and go listen to AVP on bills main page he sounds to be very interested in JP staying.


could it be that he and Turk knew that Fairchild was the idiot and that Jp was just doing what he was told to do which was run a stupid playbook ? Seems to me what Turk said about last years schemes/playcalling to go with JP's teammates backing him up leads me to beleieve it wasn't JPs fault and that he was set up to fail because of dumb playcalling.

[gr8slayer]

I absolutely cannot believe that some people think Edwards is the answer after the crappy season he just had.

[justasportsfan]

I absolutely cannot believe that some people think Edwards is the answer after the crappy season he just had.
He has PONTENTIAL.

[gr8slayer]

He has PONTENTIAL.
Potential just means you haven't done anything yet.

[justasportsfan]

Potential just means you haven't done anything yet.
exactly.

[im4bflo]

exactly!
TE did a fine job as 2nd stringer, coming in when the starter got purposely elbowed in the knee. But was not as good as an NFL starter, just a good backup.
All our QB's have suffered lately with poor OC's playcalling and game planning.
I think they need another chance with our new offense.
I'd like to see another fair competition between them all again.
And I believe we'd be starting with the same starter we had last year at the beginning. And an upgrade at backup.

[Mr. Pink]

He has PONTENTIAL.

Something JP no longer has...what JP now has is BUST.

[hydro]

Something JP no longer has...what JP now has is BUST.

Blame it all on the coaching! JP has nothing to do with his poor play, its never his fault. All the coaches fault. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Pink]

Blame it all on the coaching! JP has nothing to do with his poor play, its never his fault. All the coaches fault. :rolleyes:


Of course, put him on a different team with different coaching and all of a sudden, magically, he's going to be able to read defenses. He's going to be able to feel a backside blitz. He's going to make all the throws.

I always forget that.

There's coaching and there's limitations. Sure the coaching didn't do JP any favors but at the same token, JP didn't do the coaching any favors either.

[hydro]

Of course, put him on a different team with different coaching and all of a sudden, magically, he's going to be able to read defenses. He's going to be able to feel a backside blitz. He's going to make all the throws.

I always forget that.

There's coaching and there's limitations. Sure the coaching didn't do JP any favors but at the same token, JP didn't do the coaching any favors either.

I guess Bulger learned everything all on his own. Fairchild certainly couldn't been any effect if he was so horrible with JP.

[gr8slayer]

I guess Bulger learned everything all on his own. Fairchild certainly couldn't been any effect if he was so horrible with JP.
Fairchild actually had very little to do with it. Martz is the only one allowed to **** with QB's on a Martz run team.

[gr8slayer]

I'll keep this thread around next year and will be looking for your excuses as to why Joe Montana Jr. still sucks.

[Mr. Pink]

I'll keep this thread around next year and will be looking for your excuses as to why Edwards still sucks.

Edwards may suck, he may be good. No way to know yet until he plays. So if you want to keep the thread around feel free.

One thing we do know for certain, even though some people won't admit it, JP Losman sucks.

[gr8slayer]

Edwards may suck, he may be good. No way to know yet until he plays. So if you want to keep the thread around feel free.

One thing we do know for certain, even though some people won't admit it, JP Losman sucks.
Who isn't admitting it? Losman and Buffalo didn't work out, it's no secret. He's still very raw and is in serious need of an over-haul with his mechanics.

[hydro]

I would love not have words put into my mouth when in reference to Edwards. You will be hard pressed to find a post by me that compares Edwards directly with anyone. Good luck though.

[Philagape]

You know, there's something to this coaching excuse after all ....

When JP plays for me on Madden, he's awesome! :dance:

[justasportsfan]

Blame it all on the coaching! JP has nothing to do with his poor play, its never his fault. All the coaches fault. :rolleyes:
so who do you blame for Trents sucking? His being a rookie? He sucked against the worst D in the league. Who's to blame? The weather? Remember how Trent dinked the ball on 4th when we needed a 1st down, who;s fault was that ? Trent? Playcalling? Never mind, my guess is your double standards will blame coaching for calling that play.

[gr8slayer]

so who do you blame for Trents sucking? His being a rookie? He sucked against the worst D in the league. Who's to blame? The weather?
Hey man, he has Joe Montana written all over him. Just leave it alone.

[justasportsfan]

Something JP no longer has...what JP now has is BUST.


Yeah, Steve Young was a bust after playing for Tampa. JP still has potential. He never had a decent coach.

[justasportsfan]

Of course, put him on a different team with different coaching and all of a sudden, magically, he's going to be able to read defenses. nobody is saying that but we'd sure like to know for sure than just believe you. Marv and the players defended JP. That holds more than anyone poster here on this board.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, Steve Young was a bust after playing for Tampa. JP still has potential. He never had a decent coach.

Steve Young was with Tampa for 2 seasons. Starting a total of 19 games. People can be busts after 19 games? Good theory.

JP has double the experience that Young had when leaving his first team.

Not too mention the fact that the Bills team around Losman is 10 times better than the Bucs team around Young. You do realize that the 86 Bucs gave up double the amount of points that they scored? You do realize that Donald Igwebuke lead the team in scoring with 77 points? Oh yeah, the Bucs were also 4-28 in Steve's two seasons there.

Do you know who their coach was? Leeman Bennett. I had to look that up, because I had no clue. Do you want to know what his last year was as a head coach in the NFL? 1986.

The 86 Bucs are one of the worst teams I've ever seen play.

To compare the early careers of Steve Young and JP Losman is downright stupid.

[Mr. Pink]

nobody is saying that but we'd sure like to know for sure than just believe you. Marv and the players defended JP. That holds more than anyone poster here on this board.

Yeah, they defended him so much that he was benched. And the only guy complaining was Lee Evans. Good point.

And now, he's so well liked by the front office he's on the trade block.

Care to try again on that theory of yours?

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, they defended him so much that he was benched. And the only guy complaining was Lee Evans. Good point.

And now, he's so well liked by the front office he's on the trade block.

Care to try again on that theory of yours?
wrong. Lee wasn't the only one who defended JP. Get your facts straight.

He's on the tading block because first of all, good ole Ralphy meddled. He's on the trading block because Dick wants to start fresh with Trent after JP's was screwed by bad coaching and drafted by TD. I can't say I blame Dick for doing so either, it's just that I can't say JP sucks for sure because he was never on a decent team. He never had an OL he never had a decent coach . Any rookie that comes into this league is gonna fail without an OL. If Peyton was drafted when we drafted JP, he'd be a failure too.

[Al the Bills Fan]

JP may have a shot, it won't be in Buffalo though! I have no ill feelings towards him, I won't hate him if he goes elsewhere and suceeds.

[TacklingDummy]

He's on the tading block because first of all, good ole Ralphy meddled. He's on the trading block because Dick wants to start fresh with Trent after JP's was screwed by bad coaching and drafted by TD.

JP is on the trading block because when he did play last year he played like shlt. No one to blame but himself.

[TacklingDummy]

He never had an OL he never had a decent coach . Any rookie that comes into this league is gonna fail without an OL. If Peyton was drafted when we drafted JP, he'd be a failure too.

The o-line looked better when Holcomb/Edwards started. They got rid of the ball. JP holds on to it.

Sam Wyche, Mularkey are considered decent coaches outside the Bills universe.

I doubt Peyton would be a failure.

[gr8slayer]

Go Trent "Montana" Edwards!

[hydro]

Go Trent "Montana" Edwards!

:shakeno:

[justasportsfan]

Steve Young was with Tampa for 2 seasons. Starting a total of 19 games. People can be busts after 19 games? Good theory.

JP has double the experience that Young had when leaving his first team.

Not too mention the fact that the Bills team around Losman is 10 times better than the Bucs team around Young. You do realize that the 86 Bucs gave up double the amount of points that they scored? You do realize that Donald Igwebuke lead the team in scoring with 77 points? Oh yeah, the Bucs were also 4-28 in Steve's two seasons there.

Do you know who their coach was? Leeman Bennett. I had to look that up, because I had no clue. Do you want to know what his last year was as a head coach in the NFL? 1986.

The 86 Bucs are one of the worst teams I've ever seen play.

To compare the early careers of Steve Young and JP Losman is downright stupid.
Again, do you or do you not agree that anyone who was drafted under the very same circumstances JP was in would've busted? Simple question.

[justasportsfan]

The o-line looked better when Holcomb/Edwards started. They got rid of the ball. JP holds on to it.

Sam Wyche, Mularkey are considered decent coaches outside the Bills universe.

I doubt Peyton would be a failure.
Dinking and dunking will always do that. When Trent held on to the ball to go deep the OL looked as bad and Trent looked worse than JP. Same question to FTY applies to you.

[TacklingDummy]

Again, do you or do you not agree that anyone who was drafted under the very same circumstances JP was in would've busted? Simple question.

No. Great QB's make the people around them better. Bad QB's (Losman) make the players around them look worse.

And simply because of the fact the Bills could have won 8-10 of the games they lost when JP started simply by having JP play better.

[Mr. Pink]

Again, do you or do you not agree that anyone who was drafted under the very same circumstances JP was in would've busted? Simple question.

I disagree completely.

JP doesn't have qualities that would allow him to flourish under any circumstances.

Holding the ball too long.

Poor ball security.

Can't read defenses.

Forces the ball into coverage.

Can't feel a backside blitz.

No semblance of pocket awareness.

Poor mechanics causing balls to either soar or dive.

[justasportsfan]

No. Great QB's make the people around them better. Bad QB's (Losman) make the players around them look worse.
really, so Hostetler made the Tuna when they beat the bills in the sb. Dilfer made Billick too.

Manning would be all busted up without an OL and no weapons with Mularkey and Fairchild calling the shots if he were drafted instead of JP. If you don't believe so youre thinking emotionally with your hate for JP.

[TacklingDummy]

really, so Hostetler made the Tuna when they beat the bills in the sb. Dilfer made Billick too.



1 game does not make a career.

[hydro]

really, so Hostetler made the Tuna when they beat the bills in the sb. Dilfer made Billick too.

Manning would be all busted up without an OL and no weapons with Mularkey and Fairchild calling the shots if he were drafted instead of JP. If you don't believe so youre thinking emotionally with your hate for JP.

It's funny because those teams weren't good because of the QB at all. Any established veteran could have been successful on those teams. The talent around them made there life easy.

[justasportsfan]

1 game does not make a career.
Dilfer played 1 game? Thats news to me .


on December 15, 1990, Simms broke his foot during a game against the Buffalo Bills. The following week, Hostetler, who had thrown only 109 passes in his career for the Giants, took over as the starting quarterback. The Giants won their final two regular seasons games and swept through the playoffs, defeating the Bills in Super Bowl XXV, 20-19. During the game, he completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards, with one touchdown and no interceptions. In 2008, ESPN ranked Hostetler's performance #30 for the best quarterback performances in Super Bowl history. (I guess he made the tuna eh? )

[gr8slayer]

I disagree completely.

JP doesn't have qualities that would allow him to flourish under any circumstances.

Holding the ball too long.

Poor ball security.

Can't read defenses.

Forces the ball into coverage.

Can't feel a backside blitz.

No semblance of pocket awareness.

Poor mechanics causing balls to either soar or dive.Trent Montana will lead us to the glory land.

He has Peyton Manning type poise...

Tom Brady type ball security....

He's Montana when it comes to not forcing the ball....

He has the blitz awareness of a Tony Romo....

His pocket awareness makes me think of Steve Young....

And his mechanics are that of a child had by Chuck Norris and every other QB to ever be in the HOF combined.

Trent "Montana" Edwards is the man.

[justasportsfan]

It's funny because those teams weren't good because of the QB at all. Any established veteran could have been successful on those teams. The talent around them made there life easy.
JP was not an established vet when he joined the bills. He was a rookie who came into bad bad team that had bad offensive coaches with a neglected OL .

[gr8slayer]

No. Great QB's make the people around them better. Bad QB's (Losman) make the players around them look worse.

And simply because of the fact the Bills could have won 8-10 of the games they lost when JP started simply by having JP play better.
SO what's Trent Montana's excuse? Our offense with the football god in there was just as bad, if not worse.

[TacklingDummy]

Dilfer played 1 game? Thats news to me .


on December 15, 1990, Simms broke his foot during a game against the Buffalo Bills. The following week, Hostetler, who had thrown only 109 passes in his career for the Giants, took over as the starting quarterback. The Giants won their final two regular seasons games and swept through the playoffs, defeating the Bills in Super Bowl XXV, 20-19. During the game, he completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards, with one touchdown and no interceptions. In 2008, ESPN ranked Hostetler's performance #30 for the best quarterback performances in Super Bowl history.

How was the rest of their career's? Im sorry but I want my franchise QB to have a better career than those 2.

Rob Johnson has a Super Bowl ring also. Does that mean he was good?

[gr8slayer]

How was the rest of their career's? Im sorry but I want my franchise QB to have a better career than those 2.

Rob Johnson has a Super Bowl ring also. Does that mean he was good?
Exactly, Edwards is already better than the two mentioned above, we truly got the steal of the draft last year.

[justasportsfan]

How was the rest of their career's? Im sorry but I want my franchise QB to have a better career than those 2.

Rob Johnson has a Super Bowl ring also. Does that mean he was good?
But, but you said great qb's make the coaches and not the other way around. News for you TD , it goes both ways and not one way or the other.

Manning wouldn't have won anything with Mularkey and Fairchild and no OL even if he was already an established vet. If you think otherwise, you seriously need to relearn your football. Up until last year he couldn't win with the coaches he had and Harrison and co. You expect JP or any rookie to win anything when he came in? You're dreaming if you do. No rookie out of college would've done squat.

[gr8slayer]

BTW, why are we still talking about Losman? He's not even on the team anymore...

[TacklingDummy]

But, but you said great qb's make the coaches and not the other way around. News for you TD , it goes both ways and not one way or the other.

I agree. Players make the coaches.

[gr8slayer]

I agree. Players make the coaches.
If that's the case then Jauron is ****ed with Edwards.

[justasportsfan]

I agree. Players make the coaches.
haha! I guess BB , Walsh etc. had nothing to do with winning. It was all the players. Hilarious.

[TacklingDummy]

If that's the case then Jauron is ****ed with Edwards.

That may very well be true. We'll find out. Mularkey, Fairchild, already found it out with JP. :snicker:

[TacklingDummy]

haha! I guess BB , Walsh etc. had nothing to do with winning. It was all the players. Hilarious.

They had something to do with winning but winning had more to do with the players they had. Examples Brady, Montana, Young...


How come Stanford never turned into a power house when Walsh coached them? Or the Browns when BB coached them?

How come Barry Switzer is not an NFL coach anymore? He did great with the Cowboys.

[gr8slayer]

That may very well be true. We'll find out. Mularkey, Fairchild, already found it out with JP. :snicker:
Both of which are horrible coaches to begin with.

[justasportsfan]

They had something to do with winning but winning had more to do with the players they had. Examples Brady, Montana, Young...


How come Stanford never turned into a power house when Walsh coached them? Or the Browns when BB coached them?


So how come the Pats didn't beat the giants? They were outcoached. If players alone equals wins, the Pats line-up alone would've easily beaten the giants. Didn't happen. You are wrong.

[TacklingDummy]

Both of which are horrible coaches to begin with.

Which wouldn't mean a thing if they had talented players around them. Sorta like how Switzer had in Dallas, and Seifert, Mariucci had in San Fran.

But since they didn't have the talent around them they are now considered horrible coaches by Bills fans.

[gr8slayer]

So TD, with your theory, which is complete BS shouldn't teams be firing players and not the coaches when the team is heading south?

[TacklingDummy]

I'll never understand how Bill Bellicheck got another head coaching job after Cleveland. That guy was terrible.

[TacklingDummy]

So TD, with your theory, which is complete BS shouldn't teams be firing players and not the coaches when the team is heading south?

They do, it's called releasing them, not resigning, or trading them.

[justasportsfan]

I'll never understand how Bill Bellicheck got another head coaching job after Cleveland. That guy was terrible.
I wonder how the redskins can't win anything with all pro line-ups since players alone (your theory) makes coaches.

[gr8slayer]

They do, it's called releasing them, not resigning, or trading them.
Good, then after we fire Jauron this season let's cut all 53 people on the roster and start fresh right?

[TacklingDummy]

I wonder how the redskins can't win anything with all pro line-ups since players alone (your theory) makes coaches.

Don't forget they had a hall of fame head coach. (your theory)

Maybe because their QB play sucks. Sorta like the Bills.

[TacklingDummy]

Good, then after we fire Jauron this season let's cut all 53 people on the roster and start fresh right?

Don't be surprised if Jauron is fired after next year if the QB play stays as terrible as it has been.

[gr8slayer]

Don't forget they had a hall of fame head coach. (your theory)

Maybe because their QB play sucks. Sorta like the Bills.
Dummy, are you saying that Trent's QB play leaves something to be desired?

[TacklingDummy]

Dummy, are you saying that Trent's QB play leaves something to be desired?

Never said it was great. He needs alot of improvement. Let's hope he does. He was good creating drives that led to FG's. We don't need FG's, we need Touch Downs.

im not the one calling him "Trent Montana" :honda:

[justasportsfan]

Don't forget they had a hall of fame head coach. (your theory)

Maybe because their QB play sucks. Sorta like the Bills.wrong, my theory is that it goes both ways, not one way which is your theory. Good players to go with good coaches make ehem.... Pats dynasty.

[TacklingDummy]

wrong, my theory is that it goes both ways, not one way which is your theory. Good players to go with good coaches make ehem.... Pats dynasty.

I never said that coaching doesn't matter at all. I just believe that the talent on the field has more to do with winning then what coaching does.

There are many examples of coaches that sucked until they came into the right situation (talented players).

[gr8slayer]

Never said it was great. He needs alot of improvement. Let's hope he does. He was good creating drives that led to FG's. We don't need FG's, we need Touch Downs.

im not the one calling him "Trent Montana" :honda:
"Help us, Trent Edwards. You're our only hope."

[justasportsfan]

I never said that coaching doesn't matter at all. I just believe that the talent on the field has more to do with winning then what coaching does.

There are many examples of coaches that sucked until they came into the right situation (talented players).
but you said players make coaches ONLY.

A great coach will know how to use their players correctly. A great coach will know how to put players in a situation to succeed. A great coach will design plays that feed into their players strengths.

No matter how good Manning is, you can't make him win games with his feet.

[TacklingDummy]

"Help us, Trent Edwards. You're our only hope."

I was using a quote from Star Wars. And considering the Bills QB situation, he is.

[TacklingDummy]

but you said players make coaches ONLY. .

I did? Im not sure I said that. I did say that players make the coaches. And it's true.




No matter how good Manning is, you can't make him win games with his feet. And no matter how good Manning is. Mularkey would look like a great head coach if he coached the Colts.

[TacklingDummy]

Did Marv Levy make Jim Kelly, T. Thomas, Bruce, Biscuit, Hull, Christie, Hanson, Reed, lofton, etc.. into great players or did they make Levy into a great coach?

[justasportsfan]

I did? Im not sure I said that. I did say that players make the coaches. And it's true..you implied it when you disagree when I say it goes both ways.





And no matter how good Manning is. Mularkey would look like a great head coach if he coached the Colts. not. Mularkey would design scrambling schemes for trick plays. He would make Manning run reverse plays. He would make Addai throw the ball.

You know that would be a most likely scenario which in turn would mean that players make coaches and coaches make players. It goes both ways.
Not just one way.

[TacklingDummy]

It goes both ways.
Not just one way.

I'd say it's 80% Players, 20% Coaching.

[justasportsfan]

I'd day it's 80% Players, 20% Coaching.
I'd say 50-50 but at least you're starting to change your mind :D

[Oaf]

I want JP here in case Trent can't start 16 games due to some sort of injury. :::

Talking only about 2007, I don't think he got a fair shake, but that story is over. It's all about what we can get for him, or how he handles being a backup. I swear, if TE busts a knee and JP takes us to the playoffs, he will be a Bill in 09', Pat.

[hydro]

I swear, if TE busts a knee and JP takes us to the playoffs, he will be a Bill in 09', Pat.

I don't think anyone, even HHurricane or Pat would agrue that point. The fact that its so far of a long shot makes it a moot point.

[im4bflo]

Answering your first thread question, yes, I believe JP has a shot against TE
in a competition for starter this year, no doubt. So you can believe it!

[gr8slayer]

Answering your first thread question, yes, I believe JP has a shot against TE
in a competition for starter this year, no doubt.
No, the coaches are sold on Edwards....

[yordad]

When was the last time Trent played 16+ games in a row?

And, if coaching isn't nearly as important as the players, why the hell are coaches paid so much? If that is the case, we all could and would coach.

That said, with adaquate coaching and surrounding talent, and a fair shot (or a TE injury) I have little doubt JP would outplay TE.

Now, if you want to argue it isn't likely he will play in Buffalo another season, then you are probably right. But, if you want to argue he doesn't have a shot at ever being a good NFL QB, then you are a straight up hater.

[yordad]

How is this thread still going? I absolutely cannot believe anyone has anything new to say on the subject. You guys all have to be repeating yourself, I know I just did.

[Oaf]

I don't think anyone, even HHurricane or Pat would agrue that point. The fact that its so far of a long shot makes it a moot point.
Good point there Hydro, it's a long shot to be optimistic, but stranger things have happened, and as Yordad said, TE still hasn't shown he can be a 16+ game starter. We fans will be right back on JP's back if he can string more than two solid performances together.

I actually believe there should be an open comp, but the coaches feel otherwise and they know better than I do.

[im4bflo]

How is this thread still going? I absolutely cannot believe anyone has anything new to say on the subject. You guys all have to be repeating yourself, I know I just did.

As long as a JP hater keeps starting them, the real Bills fans will
reply. And that's pretty much it.

[justasportsfan]

As long as a JP hater keeps starting them, the real Bills fans will
reply. And that's pretty much it.
:10:

[Kenny]

Truth is... until TE wins us a string of games, this question (whether it be JP or whomever we have as backup) will always be asked.

And be honest with yourself.... If TE struggles early next season, Im willing to bet the majority of Bills fans will be calling for JP to start.

[justasportsfan]

Truth is... until TE wins us a string of games, this question (whether it be JP or whomever we have as backup) will always be asked.

And be honest with yourself.... If TE struggles early next season, Im willing to bet the majority of Bills fans will be calling for JP to start.


Trent is just as huge of a risk as JP regardless of how many years JP has on Trent. No one can deny JP was badly coached with no OL or weapons. Not even Trent fans.

[Kenny]

Trent is just as huge of a risk as JP regardless of how many years JP has on Trent. No one can deny JP was badly coached with no OL or weapons. Not even Trent fans.

The problem w/ JP, as everyone knows, is that he's always looking for the homerun, regardless of whether it's there or not. He doesnt care for the little dinks and dunks, -even if that's all there is.

Now dont get me wrong, Im a JP fan. I dont care what anyone says, but you have to admire/love his physical skills. TE doesnt even come close to JP's physical abilities. But I'll also admit, JP had his chance. This is now TE's team, -so long as he wins us games. If he struggles, the debate continues, and I'll be posting for JP to start again.

But IMO Trent is not as huge of a risk as JP... TE is the safe choice. Little reward, but also very little risk/loss.
JP's the exact opposite, huge reward, but also a crapload of stupid/dumbass plays.

Pick your poison.

[justasportsfan]

The problem w/ JP, as everyone knows, is that he's always looking for the homerun, regardless of whether it's there or not. He doesnt care for the little dinks and dunks, -even if that's all there is.

Now dont get me wrong, Im a JP fan. I dont care what anyone says, but you have to admire/love his physical skills. TE doesnt even come close to JP's physical abilities. But I'll also admit, JP had his chance. This is now TE's team, -so long as he wins us games. If he struggles, the debate continues, and I'll be posting for JP to start again.

But IMO Trent is not as huge of a risk as JP... TE is the safe choice. Little reward, but also very little risk/loss.
JP's the exact opposite, huge reward, but also a crapload of stupid/dumbass plays.

Pick your poison.
Looking for the homerunwas his bread and butter and its seems to me that what Fairchild kept trying to push. Trents ability to dink and dunk covered Fairchilds lack of a brain in the deep ball passing game which was suppose to be his expertise.

In college JP would rather run with the ball unlike Trent who would rather get rid of it fast by dinking . Both had horrible OL's in college but both dealt with that a different way. A good coach would've known how to device a way to use their strength. Fairchild couldn't even create a scheme for JP to scramble on 3rd or 4th and short. Cutler did it.

Thing is, I'm not a JP fan. Never was. I just want to make sure the RJ/ Df Willis/Henry situation doesn't happen again and this makes people think I'm a JP fan.

I like Trents potential and I still like JP's potential. They both have their strengths but neither is proven. I'd like to see what both can do with better coaching and at least a decent OL and from there may the best man win because I'm not sold on neither qb's.

[im4bflo]

I would of liked to see them embrace JP's running skills, and use them as an advantage, and not try and handcuff him in the pocket.
Let him be more himself, and do a little run and gun, defense's hate that stuff!