If you play for the Sabres, I think you get the message.....

[Mitchy moo]

The message being sent from the FO through the locker room is if you get good, the Sabres will not pay you. Don't buy a house here, just rent.

[Michael82]

We are nothing but a farm team. :sigh:

[BlackMetalNinja]

Should they send the message instead that they are going to tie all their money up in 4-5 guys, so everybody else should just plan on taking off? What's the difference really?

[Michael82]

Should they send the message instead that they are going to tie all their money up in 4-5 guys, so everybody else should just plan on taking off? What's the difference really?
Are you watching what the rest of the league is doing? Pretty much the same thing. :yawn:

[hydro]

Should they send the message instead that they are going to tie all their money up in 4-5 guys, so everybody else should just plan on taking off? What's the difference really?

Emotional attachment? :idunno:

[Mitchy moo]

Should they send the message instead that they are going to tie all their money up in 4-5 guys, so everybody else should just plan on taking off? What's the difference really?

The difference is to be pro-active and recognize talents and tie them up for longer periods at reasonable amounts. We could of signed Briere to a 6 year deal years a few years ago and still had him. Drury was always just a rental but he would of become alot more affordable if we just looked ahead. Did anyone think Vanek was going to suck in the long-term??

Take a chance and sign guys to longer-term deals on the cheap and use them through their prime on the cheap. You never hear of people holding out in hockey for longer-term deals if they are under contract already. $1.25 - $1.75 M a year can lock up a kid for a long time, like 6 years. Train his ass to play hard and skate him, then trade him for new meat to sign long-term.

In a NHL / business, if I know someone is getting better I offer them something that is ahead of the game now but long term is better for the team. It's called being a manager, proactive. Something we have never learned here and still Darcy hasn't a F-in clue.

[BlackMetalNinja]

So according to you guys, we should have all these guys locked up into their mid 30s... at which point you'd all be *****ing that we have a bunch of overpaid, over the hill guys that aren't producing like they were when we signed them.

Trust me, I get that the FO has screwed up multiple times, but I don't think this is all as cut and dry as you just seem to. In your world, everybody wants to be here at a discount price for years and years, yet you have no clue if that really is the case or not. Clearly it was with Campbell, but the Front Office had to make a choice there... was he worth that much money for that long or not... they chose not.

[hydro]

You can't lump me into that crowd. I know people become emotionally attached to player to the extreme that they don't see the ramifications of keeping him. There is no way we could have kept Drury, Briere, Campbell, Hecht and Vanek while still having to sign Miller. People had to leave, its the way the game is these days.

[Mitchy moo]

So according to you guys, we should have all these guys locked up into their mid 30s... at which point you'd all be *****ing that we have a bunch of overpaid, over the hill guys that aren't producing like they were when we signed them.

Trust me, I get that the FO has screwed up multiple times, but I don't think this is all as cut and dry as you just seem to. In your world, everybody wants to be here at a discount price for years and years, yet you have no clue if that really is the case or not. Clearly it was with Campbell, but the Front Office had to make a choice there... was he worth that much money for that long or not... they chose not.

Did we see this coming after F-in up with Briere?? I mean how many times does the hammer need to fall in Buffalo??

[THATHURMANATOR]

As I stated before Skooby did Roy, Vanek, Connolly, Hecht and Spacek fail to get that message since they all have recently signed big contracts with the Sabres?

[kgun12]

How many teams could have lost playes like Drury and Briere and still be in the hunt for the playoffs. It comes from not over paying 4-5 players, developing talent in the farm system and trusting your system. If we did keep Drury and Briere who are at the back end of there career, there wouldn't have been any money for Vanek, just starting to blossom and soon Miller (I hope).

[Mitchy moo]

How many teams could have lost playes like Drury and Briere and still be in the hunt for the playoffs. It comes from not over paying 4-5 players, developing talent in the farm system and trusting your system. If we did keep Drury and Briere who are at the back end of there career, there wouldn't have been any money for Vanek, just starting to blossom and soon Miller (I hope).

You maybe right but there was a good time to pay Briere and it was well before we had too.

[kgun12]

Did we see this coming after F-in up with Briere?? I mean how many times does the hammer need to fall in Buffalo??

I have said this before, we didn't screw up with Briere, I have a friend the is a Flyer fan, he told me in the middle of last season the Briere would be a Flyer when the season was over. He was not going to stay with the Sabres.

[Mitchy moo]

I have said this before, we didn't screw up with Briere, I have a friend the is a Flyer fan, he told me in the middle of last season the Briere would be a Flyer when the season was over. He was not going to stay with the Sabres.

Please leave Marty out of this, lol.

[kgun12]

Please leave Marty out of this, lol.

It wasn't Marty, the guy who said it was one of my sons friend who is a semi hockey fan. He had just got back from Phily and it was about mid way though the season and he came over to our house and said Mr K. everyone in Phily is saying Briere is going to be a Flyer next season" I told him he was nuts. If you know anything about Phily fans, he didn't let me forget what he said and what my response back to him was!

[Mitchy moo]

It wasn't Marty, the guy who said it was one of my sons friend who is a semi hockey fan. He had just got back from Phily and it was about mid way though the season and he came over to our house and said Mr K. everyone in Phily is saying Briere is going to be a Flyer next season" I told him he was nuts. If you know anything about Phily fans, he didn't let me forget what he said and what my response back to him was!

The eagles fans are the same way.:respect:

[BuffaloRanger]

How many teams could have lost playes like Drury and Briere and still be in the hunt for the playoffs. It comes from not over paying 4-5 players, developing talent in the farm system and trusting your system. If we did keep Drury and Briere who are at the back end of there career, there wouldn't have been any money for Vanek, just starting to blossom and soon Miller (I hope).


Who cares about playoffs? This was a president's cup winning team last year!! The fact that they lost their captains and still might make the playoffs is not a point of pride. It's a complete embarrassment. How good could they be with a remotely competent front office?

Is just making the playoff's good enough in Detroit? Do you think the Sens are just happy that they'll be in the playoffs this season? Is it good enough to watch the players your team developed walk away because the FO refuses to pay them what they are worth? Then they replace them with AHL players with the hopes of earning that coveted 8th seed. The strategy of "potentially" not over paying 4-5 players, developing talent in the farm system and trusting your system that you describe guarantees an early playoff exit every year - unless you have Brodeur as your goalie. Miller is not Brodeur.

There was always plenty of money to sign Vanek to a reasonable offer because Vanek should have been signed before he became a RFA. By that I mean "THE SABRES SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE HIM AND OFFER!!" before the oilers did!

But no. For the first 5 weeks of last offseason Quinn/Darcy were doing nothing. No offers to anyone. Then they make Drury and Briere undermarket offers 4 days before the deadline - after a whole month of no communication, and try to paint them as the greedy bad guys.

I blame Quinn. Everything he touched turns to crap in the end. Sabres part 1. Waterfront. Sabres part 2. He sucks.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Add up your "reasonable offers" on Briere, Drury, Vanek, Campbell, and Miller, then tell me where we are with the rest of the team...

[Michael82]

Who cares about playoffs? This was a president's cup winning team last year!! The fact that they lost their captains and still might make the playoffs os not a point of pride. It's complete embarrassment. How good could they be with a remotely competent front office?

Is just making the playoff's good enough in Detroit? Do you think the Sens are happy that they be in the playoffs this season. Is it good enough to watch the players you developed walk away because you refuse to pay them what they are worth? Then replace them with AHL players with the hopes of earning that coveted 8th seed. The strategy of "potentially" not over paying 4-5 players, developing talent in the farm system and trusting your system that you describe guarantees an early playoff every year - unless you have Brodeur as your goalie. Miller is not Brodeur.

There was always plenty of money to sign Vanek to a reasonable offer because Vanek should have been signed before he became a RFA. By that I mean "THE SABRES SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE HIM AND OFFER!!" before the oilers did!

But no. For the first 5 weeks of last offseason Quinn/Darcy were doing nothing. No offers to anyone. Then they make Drury and Briere undermarket offers 4 days before the deadline - after a whole month of no communication, and try to paint them as the greedy bad guys.

I blame Quinn. Everything he touched turns to crap in the end. Sabres part 1. Waterfront. Sabres part 2. He sucks.
Excellent Post!!!! :bf1:

[BlackMetalNinja]

Excellent Post!!!! :bf1:

Again, I'll repeat myself... add up the totals of what you THINK these guys would have signed for and tell me where you stand with budget for the rest of the team. People had to go, it's that simple. When you homegrow all the talent that we have, you're inevitably going to price yourself out of keeping them all.

[kgun12]

Excellent Post!!!! :bf1:

Come on Mikey think about it. The Rangers, Cowboys and Yankee's have been signing FA's as fast as they could for over 15 years and what has it got them? The same amount of Championships as the Sabres and Bills have. Maybe it's time you relax and enjoy what you have, there are a lot of cities that don't have pro sports. I want to win a championship as much as the next guy, but there isn't any set formula for do it and god know getting as worked up about it as you and some of the other do, makes me wonder how you can enjoy it. Hell after Ralph goes who know what happens to the Bills. I say you don't have to like what happens, but wow don't blow a gasket either! So

[kgun12]

Who cares about playoffs? This was a president's cup winning team last year!! The fact that they lost their captains and still might make the playoffs is not a point of pride. It's a complete embarrassment. How good could they be with a remotely competent front office?

Is just making the playoff's good enough in Detroit? Do you think the Sens are just happy that they'll be in the playoffs this season? Is it good enough to watch the players your team developed walk away because the FO refuses to pay them what they are worth? Then they replace them with AHL players with the hopes of earning that coveted 8th seed. The strategy of "potentially" not over paying 4-5 players, developing talent in the farm system and trusting your system that you describe guarantees an early playoff exit every year - unless you have Brodeur as your goalie. Miller is not Brodeur.

There was always plenty of money to sign Vanek to a reasonable offer because Vanek should have been signed before he became a RFA. By that I mean "THE SABRES SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE HIM AND OFFER!!" before the oilers did!

But no. For the first 5 weeks of last offseason Quinn/Darcy were doing nothing. No offers to anyone. Then they make Drury and Briere undermarket offers 4 days before the deadline - after a whole month of no communication, and try to paint them as the greedy bad guys.

I blame Quinn. Everything he touched turns to crap in the end. Sabres part 1. Waterfront. Sabres part 2. He sucks.

I guess this applies to you also!

The Rangers, Cowboys and Yankee's have been signing FA's as fast as they could for over 15 years and what has it got them? The same amount of Championships as the Sabres and Bills have. Maybe it's time you relax and enjoy what you have, there are a lot of cities that don't have pro sports. I want to win a championship as much as the next guy, but there isn't any set formula for do it and god know getting as worked up about it as you and some of the other do, makes me wonder how you can enjoy it. Hell after Ralph goes who know what happens to the Bills. I say you don't have to like what happens, but wow don't blow a gasket either! So

[Dude]

Sabres and Bills have no championships. Am I missing something here? :idunno:

[kernowboy]

Bottom line is Campbell didn't sign. He can use the Zednik experience if he likes, but there's no reason that after signing the 3 year contract on offer, that the Sabres wouldn't have offered another 3 year contract. He insisted on a longer deal which cap economics wouldn't allow.

The Sabres need to balance the needs of the entire roster. If they are just a farm deal they would have taken the Oilers offer for Vanek .....

When it became clear Campbell won't budge, the only option left was to trade him. We have got Bernier, who at 22, could become a Power Forward we've been looking for and we have got the Sharks Round 1 who can easily be turned into a center like Greg Nemicz a big 6ft3 youngster providing size in the middle our prospects lack, or a Left Winger like Mikkel Boedker of which we have none at our AHL team - and Left Wingers are at a premium.

And we have plenty of Defensive Prospects to step up starting with Sekera and Weber.

And if Miller asks for too much we should trade him as well - he's a good keeper but someone will give up considerable value for him and we can acquire a replacement for him who may be better.

I love the Sabres, not the individual players.

[Ebenezer]

Come on Mikey think about it. The Rangers, Cowboys and Yankee's have been signing FA's as fast as they could for over 15 years and what has it got them? The same amount of Championships as the Sabres and Bills have.

I believe the Yankees have won quite a few championships since 1994 and are perenially in contention (as much as I dislike them).

[Michael82]

I believe the Yankees have won quite a few championships since 1994 and are perenially in contention (as much as I dislike them).
Exactly! :hi5:

[kgun12]

Sabres and Bills have no championships. Am I missing something here? :idunno:

Dude I know your not that dumb, if you read the post I said last 15 years. About the time FA's started in football, since then baseball and hockey have followed None of these teams has won anything since FA's started. With me so far or am I going too fast for you? . Chasing FA's and trying to keep everyone doesn't work and it's not possible! In case you aren't though, I will spell it out. The Cowboys won their SB's through the draft, remember the Walker trade? The Yankee's, when they were winning all those WS's did it through their farm systems and wise trades, They haven't figured out how to do it through FA's in this decade cause they case older FA's like we would and with Drury and Briere! and I guess the are the Rangers. I hope that makes it more simple for you to follow Dude. My sons an engineer and I have to explain things differently to him also!

[BuffaloRanger]

Again, I'll repeat myself... add up the totals of what you THINK these guys would have signed for and tell me where you stand with budget for the rest of the team. People had to go, it's that simple. When you homegrow all the talent that we have, you're inevitably going to price yourself out of keeping them all.


I'll be happy to answer.

Foresight. Sabres could have signed Drury OR Briere to a 5mil/season deal during last season. It wouldn't have had to be both, just one. Sign or hell at least OFFER Vanek a 4 year deal worth around 17-20mil before the RFA deadline and the Oilers huge offer.

With that extra 5 mil this season saved on Vanek's deal you could have extended Campbell before the season started. It wasn't much of a logical leap. Recognizing that he is a puck moving dman and would be a hot commodity on the FA market this offseason - read "Expensive!", should have motivated the front office to get deals done.

Or the Sabres could have signed Drury and Briere and let Vanek walk for the 4 1st rounders.

The fact is that every move the Sabres have made since they lost to Ottawa has been forced on them by other teams because they failed to understand the NHL FA market. Losing D and B, which forced them to "overpay" for their 3rd Center Roy because he now was their 1st Center. The Oilers wrote Vaneks contract. Failing to extend Campbell before he became a 2 time allstar. The FO has pissed it all away.

And even thought there is money to sign Miller (are his #'s much different then Biron's?) the Sabres won't spend it on him. His reputation probably exceeds his true value. He'll get a huge FA deal.

[Dude]

The Rangers, Cowboys and Yankee's have been signing FA's as fast as they could for over 15 years and what has it got them? The same amount of Championships as the Sabres and Bills have.Cowboys, Rangers, and Yankees have all won titles in the last 15 years. Sabres and Bills have not.

[BuffaloRanger]

I guess this applies to you also!

The Rangers, Cowboys and Yankee's have been signing FA's as fast as they could for over 15 years and what has it got them? The same amount of Championships as the Sabres and Bills have. Maybe it's time you relax and enjoy what you have, there are a lot of cities that don't have pro sports. I want to win a championship as much as the next guy, but there isn't any set formula for do it and god know getting as worked up about it as you and some of the other do, makes me wonder how you can enjoy it. Hell after Ralph goes who know what happens to the Bills. I say you don't have to like what happens, but wow don't blow a gasket either! So


I think the Yankees have won a championship or 4 in that time. No mention of high spending red sox?

Cowboys won 3 SBs in the last 15 years. Rangers won it all in 94.

There's always high spending teams you can point to that don't win championships, but they usually are right there in the end. Sports is full of low spending teams that never sniff the playoffs.

It's tough to relax when you consider how close the Sabres were and because of mismanagement cost Buffalo it's first ever Championship.

[BlackMetalNinja]

BuffaloRanger, you're a genious... how come you didn't apply for the Sabres GM job? You clearly know more than anybody in the front office at the moment does.

[Mitchy moo]

Again, I'll repeat myself... add up the totals of what you THINK these guys would have signed for and tell me where you stand with budget for the rest of the team. People had to go, it's that simple. When you homegrow all the talent that we have, you're inevitably going to price yourself out of keeping them all.

Can we go back a few years and then call you back on that?

[doug45]

You can't lump me into that crowd. I know people become emotionally attached to player to the extreme that they don't see the ramifications of keeping him. There is no way we could have kept Drury, Briere, Campbell, Hecht and Vanek while still having to sign Miller. People had to leave, its the way the game is these days.

So what you are saying is if anybody gets good and should get some money we should get rid of them. How do other teams do it!!

[Michael82]

So what you are saying is if anybody gets good and should get some money we should get rid of them. How do other teams do it!!
It sounds like it. :ill: