Sabres are cheap? Don't want to win?

[Meathead]

Commentary: Sabres to Miller: We won't pay — or win

Kevin Oklobjiza
Rochester D&C
Feb. 27

In once again failing miserably to sign a key player, the Sabres confirmed what every one of their players already knew too well: Winning is not the ultimate objective.

Because they couldn't sign Campbell, they were forced to trade their All-Star defenseman.

The Tampa Bay Lightning faced a similar situation and they got a deal done with defenseman Dan Boyle ($40 million for six years).

The Sabres chose to remain true to their budget. They know the franchise's future depends on smart fiscal management. Fans will only spend so much on tickets and corporate money is limited.

So in reality the Sabres sent another message: That fan loyalty doesn't matter.

Thanks for buying those season tickets for a team that doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, we sold them to you when Campbell, Drury and Briere were winning the Presidents Trophy and staring down the Stanley Cup.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080227/SPORTS02/802270344/tbd/

ok PLEASE somebody answer me this:

if buffalo met soups demands and gave him the 5.75 over six years what does the team do about all the other players coming up for free agency

everybody wants to say the club is cheap but the cold hard reality is that they simply cannot pay everybody. miller is going to command another big chunk of the cap this offseason. then you have goose and pie-yay and macarthur coming up after that. and on their heels are pommer and stafford. sissy is playing great and you gotta keep him around after his contract runs out next year

id have loved to keep brian but if they did they would have had to make some tough choices elsewhere to make up for it. and lets be honest, he is just not worth the franchise money he wanted and will get elsewhere. really good but not break the bank good. thats just reality

just look around and see how other teams are strapped now because they paid too much for guys who were at their peak a few years ago. toronto is probably going to suck for three or four more years specifically because of that. meanwhile the sabres should remain competitive for the playoffs year after year and with a bit of luck could be serious contenders any given year

its tough to be objective this time of year but thats really the only way you can look at it. the sabres are finally being smart about their free agents. as tough as it is to see somebody like soup (and jp and clutch and danny and ...) have to go at least they are stopping the bleeding by getting value in return this time. they deserve criticism for not accepting brians offer of five for five but nothing they could do about that now except make the best of it. at least they did that and got something pretty good in return

now just DONT ***KING WAIT TO SIGN MILLER. get a deal done this summer cuz you know damn well its gonna cost you more if you wait. and please try to be more proactive about other young stars in the making. easier said than done of course

so if youre gonna sit there and say the sabres are cheap and dont want to win youre gonna have to back up those words with some facts. lets hear em

[Bill Brasky]

if you're ryan miller, after seeing all these guys leave, do you really want to stay? i wouldn't.

[Dude]

Agreed. Why would you commit to a team whose ownership doesn't want to win?

[THATHURMANATOR]

if you're ryan miller, after seeing all these guys leave, do you really want to stay? i wouldn't.
Or you could look at it the other way. If we had signed all of those guys we wouldn't have any money to pay Miller. Guys we must remember we are a small market.

[THATHURMANATOR]

To say the ownership doesnt want to win is just insane. They can't spend past their means. Even the last 2 years with deep playoff runs they made modest profits. Do we expect Galisano to just lose money because he is rich?

[hydro]

Or you could look at it the other way. If we had signed all of those guys we wouldn't have any money to pay Miller. Guys we must remember we are a small market.

Exactly. I can now see them being able to re-sign Miller whereas if we had signed Campbell I don't know if that would have been possible.

[Dr. Lecter]

While I agree they messed up last year, they have signed some players (Vanek - yes I know, Hecht and Roy) long term.

Are they the right guys? Were they pro-active enough?

Those are legit questions. But they are not running every player out of town.

After the lockout they had a very talent laden roster that has players in high demand. They can't keep it all together.

They need to pick and choose who to keep for the long term.

One would hope they try to get Miller long term. And then decide who amongst Pominvill, Goose, Paille, MacArthur, Sissy, Tallinder, Bernier, etc. is next.

[hydro]

To say the ownership doesnt want to win is just insane. They can't spend past their means. Even the last 2 years with deep playoff runs they made modest profits. Do we expect Galisano to just lose money because he is rich?

I heard him on a interview with Schop and the Bulldog saying how they are doing what they can with what they have. He is in this as a business not just for the fun of it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Exactly. I can now see them being able to re-sign Miller whereas if we had signed Campbell I don't know if that would have been possible.
We can't get attached to players in this day and age especially in a small market. Even paying Campbell 5 mil a year for 5 is too much if you ask me.

[THATHURMANATOR]

They need to pick and choose who to keep for the long term.

One would hope they try to get Miller long term. And then decide who amongst Pominville, Goose, Paille, MacArthur, Sissy, Tallinder, Bernier, etc. is next.
EXACTLY

Out of this group they need to keep Pommer, Paille, Tallinder for sure. I really can't see Goose, Bernier or MacArther really demanding all that much either so we should be fine.

[MikeInRoch]

So how close to the cap were we this year? I was under the impression that we were pretty close. Which means there's not a lot more spending we COULD do.

[Dude]

One would hope they try to get Miller long term.If by "try" you mean do what the did with the other recently departed quality Sabres, you can probably start counting down the days until Miller's departure.

BFD that they have the flexibility to sign Miller by letting other key players walk. What, given this FO's recent history, leads any of you to believe that they won't either make a half-assed attempt, or will decide that he doesn't fit the budget and will let him go too? You think Miller's going to come cheap? No way. And no way does Golisano give him what the market will dictate.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Dude Honestly I wouldn't be crushed if we did let Miller walk. IMO he is a good but not great goalie in the same class as Biron. I can't see him at 28 years old suddenly ascending into the upper echelon of goalies. That being said he is a winner and big presence on the team.

[Dude]

Maybe so, but at some point letting all your stars walk takes a toll on the psyche of the rest of the team. The attitude and desire to win starts at the top. If they won't keep their stars, why would any FAs want to sign here? It's a downward spiral that takes years to overcome.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Maybe so, but at some point letting all your stars walk takes a toll on the psyche of the rest of the team. The attitude and desire to win starts at the top. If they won't keep their stars, why would any FAs want to sign here? It's a downward spiral that takes years to overcome.
They are men and professionals. We can't be worried about their feelings. This isn't Oprah. If they can't handle it get rid of them.

As to why would any FA's want to sign here. Again as simple as it can be. We target a guy and offer him more money. This is the main reason any player signs anywhere. Not to mention a great hockey loving fan base.

[hydro]

Maybe so, but at some point letting all your stars walk takes a toll on the psyche of the rest of the team. The attitude and desire to win starts at the top. If they won't keep their stars, why would any FAs want to sign here? It's a downward spiral that takes years to overcome.

How is that any different than signing all our big stars now and then not being able to sign any other players that become stars in years to come?

[User Manuel]

Don't forget that signing Dan Boyle cost them Brad Richards. There is a cost to EVERYTHING you do.

[Mitchy moo]

Were they pro-active enough?


This is where we fail miserably, these guys cannot see past today. We know what's coming and they should as well. Lock up your core, show the rest the door.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is where we fail miserably, these guys cannot see past today. We know what's coming and they should as well. Lock up your core, show the rest the door.
Think about this for a second. Maybe they didn't want Campbell at anything over 4 million(for example) and have known this all along. They have a system and cost structure in place. If this was the case they had to save face somewhat by first turning down the offer of 5 for 25 in the offseason then offer 3 for 5.75 just to make it seem like they tried, knowing all along he wouldnt accept, just to appease the crying whiners somewhat.

[carybillsfan]

This is where we fail miserably, these guys cannot see past today. We know what's coming and they should as well. Lock up your core, show the rest the door.

This where your wrong, they did see that Campbell, or his agent, want phanuef money. He is no Phanuef, period. They are in a different class. So Darcy got something for a guy who wants to be over paid. Are Briere and Drury living up their contracts, the numbers would suggest not. I think the entire organization learned from last year and it has shown this year.

[Bulldog]

Here's a legitimate question. The Sabres were/are an ordinary team, even with Campbell. Good enough to make the playoffs, but barring a miraculous run, not good enough to win the whole thing. So how exactly does Buffalo get better by tying up Campbell with a six to seven year deal that averages $6 million plus per year? By doing so, Buffalo would have left themselves very little room to make any kind of moves, weather that be resigning Miller or signing a free agent. The money just wouldn't have been there. It's pretty clear to me that Buffalo knew that and had to shake things up, thus the trade of Campbell. Just maybe Buffalo knew what they had wasn't going to cut it, so they rolled the dice and went in another direction. Maybe Bernier will flourish in Ruff's system and one of the D prospects will step up to fill the void left by Campbell's departure. Just some food for thought.

[hydro]

Here's a legitimate question. It's been pretty clear to me that the Sabres were/are an ordinary team, even with Campbell. Good enough to make the playoffs, but barring a miraculous run, not good enough to win the whole thing. So how exactly does Buffalo get better by tying up Campbell with a six to seven year deal that averages $6 million plus per year? By doing so, Buffalo would have left themselves very little room to make any kind of moves, weather that be resigning Miller or signing a free agent. The money just wouldn't have been there. It's pretty clear to me that Buffalo knew that had to shake things up and thus the trade of Campbell. It's obvious that Buffalo knew what they had wasn't going to cut it, so they rolled the dice and went in another direction. Maybe Bernier will flourish in Ruff's system and one of the D prospects will step up to fill the void left by Campbell's departure. Just some food for thought.

Some people can't think logically about it without bringing up the "mistakes" the FO has made before hand. It's all in the past and from where we stand now this trade makes sense.

[Bulldog]

Some people can't think logically about it without bringing up the "mistakes" the FO has made before hand. It's all in the past and from where we stand now this trade makes sense.

I agree. The bottom line is that due to market size, Buffalo will have to make tough decisions as to who they'll keep, and who they'll let walk. In order to be successful, Buffalo is going to need a nice blend of veterans and younger skill players that are good, but haven't hit their big pay day yet. That's why I think the Sabres went in this direction. Will it work? Tough to say at this point. But it's reality, so people need to deal with it.

[Meathead]

wow the avatar fooled me there bulldog

for a sec i thought you were op :faint:

[Meathead]

man i can tell some of you *****es didnt even read what i wrote. i wont name any names but your initials are D.U.D.E.

wtf you say they dont want to win but you give no rationale for that statement. how bout a little explanation that makes some sense

[doug45]

We can't get attached to players in this day and age especially in a small market. Even paying Campbell 5 mil a year for 5 is too much if you ask me.

Then I guess what you are saying is that Buffalo can never have a top notch player because we can not afford one.

I hear the Small market thing and what a joke that is. The Sabers fill that arena every game and sell more merchandise then any other team. I watched a Dallas game the other day and the place was EMPTY. It was lucky if it was at 20%.

So to sign Miller we can not sign anyone else? What good is a goalie without a team?

[OpIv37]

Or you could look at it the other way. If we had signed all of those guys we wouldn't have any money to pay Miller. Guys we must remember we are a small market.

don't give me that small market bull****. That applies to football, not hockey.

Why? Because in hockey, the big markets don't have such a huge advantage because hockey isn't as popular. There are a few exceptions like Toronto, but I can tell you first hand living here: places like Dallas and Washington don't have NEARLY the power they do in the NFL because people just don't care about hockey.

The FO learned half their lesson on this one- they got something in return for a departing player.

They still should have taken Campbell's 5 year, $25 million offer though- then they'd have him locked up and still have some room for some of those other guys. But hey, why be smart or learn from the past? That's never helped anyone.

[MikeInRoch]

This is one of the stupidest topics I've seen on here. The last few years, the Sabres have been REALLY CLOSE to the cap. Just HOW are they supposed to spend more money without cheating??

[Dr. Lecter]

don't give me that small market bull****. That applies to football, not hockey.

Why? Because in hockey, the big markets don't have such a huge advantage because hockey isn't as popular. There are a few exceptions like Toronto, but I can tell you first hand living here: places like Dallas and Washington don't have NEARLY the power they do in the NFL because people just don't care about hockey.

The FO learned half their lesson on this one- they got something in return for a departing player.

They still should have taken Campbell's 5 year, $25 million offer though- then they'd have him locked up and still have some room for some of those other guys. But hey, why be smart or learn from the past? That's never helped anyone.

Small market does not effect hockey?

Are you serious?

Ticket prices, merchandise sales, concession sales, etc. are all higher in places like NYC, Boston, Colorado, etc.

It has a huge effect.

[OpIv37]

Small market does not effect hockey?

Are you serious?

Ticket prices, merchandise sales, concession sales, etc. are all higher in places like NYC, Boston, Colorado, etc.

It has a huge effect.

Sabres were #1 in jersey sales last year. Sabres games cost more than Capitals games and the Sabres sell a hell of a lot more tickets even though DC is a bigger market.

Stuff like that doesn't happen in football.

Buffalo's a small market but it's negated by the "hockey town" effect.

[MikeInRoch]

Can you please address my question? Should they cheat and over spend the cap then? Because that's about the only way they can spend more on salary.

[hydro]

Can you please address my question? Should they cheat and over spend the cap then? Because that's about the only way they can spend more on salary.

Silence should be a good enough answer I guess. Nobody has an answer.

[Meathead]

THANK YOU

that was my point entirely

its so easy just to say the sabres are cheap and dont want to win. but nobody offers any logical rationale for that position. i just got sick of it and this thread confirms my suspicion that its just irrational venting

[Dr. Lecter]

They are under the cap this year. About $5 million I think. ($50 cap, $45 in payroll)

[Dude]

A team that wants to win keeps its core intact.

A team that doesn't want to win bungles contract negotiations, let's good players go, and overpays for marginal ones because, well, they bungled the contract negotiation.

Maybe I should redirect my frustration. Perhaps it's not that they don't want to win. I think it's more that they don't know how anymore.

[Meathead]

yes ok but those are two completely different things

like ive said i will wait until my dying day for the opportunity to ask darcy candidly wtf was going thru his mind when they botched the captains situation so badly. it was handled so poorly, such purely gross incompetence, you cant even imagine a professional making that big a series of gaffs

still i think they learned from it, they sure as hell better have, and are now taking steps to not let it happen again. they deserve all the criticism for their mistakes but that doesnt translate into not wanting to win

[Dude]

Fair enough.

[Dr. Lecter]

:grouphug: