Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

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  • LifetimeBillsFan
    All-Pro Zoner
    • Aug 2004
    • 4946

    Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

    I'm sick and tired of reading all of the articles (C.Byrne and P.Moran) and posts that have become commonplace here denigrating the performance of Donte Whitner for the Bills the last two years. To read some of the stuff that has been written, you would think that Whitner has been an absolute bust who has been mediocre at best.

    I know that a lot of Bills fans were upset that the team chose to pass on Haloti Ngata, who has made the Pro Bowl (what about Broderick Bunkley--how well has he played?), to select Whitner two years ago, but the criticism that has been leveled at Whitner by those who do not believe that Whitner has developed into the "difference-maker" that they believe that Ngata would have been for the Bills has, quite frankly, been unfair and unwarranted.

    Whitner's critic love to point to the fact that Whitner has not put up the kind of statistics or generated the kind of turnovers that perennial All-Pro safety Ed Reed or NFL Defensive MVP Bob Sanders have. However, this ignores the fact that Whitner has played in a totally different defensive system and behind a grossly less talented front seven than Reed and that Whitner's numbers have been at least comparable to those of Sanders during the Indianapolis strong safety's first three years in the NFL.

    Comparing Whitner's stats to those of Reed would be akin to comparing apples to oranges. While one can argue that Sanders, who replaced Mike Doss in the starting lineup, joined a Colts defense that was already better and more talented than the Bills defense was when Whitner first stepped on the field for the Bills, Whitner was drafted by the Bills to play the same position in a similar defensive system--to be the Bills' "Bob Sanders"--making a comparison of Whitner's performance for the Bills during his first two seasons comparable to Sanders' performance for the Colts during his first three seasons.

    Bob Sanders: First Three Regular Seasons

    G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF FR


    6 4 34 29 5 0.0 0.0 1 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 2

    14 14 91 71 20 0.0 0.0 2 1 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 1

    4 4 27 19 8 0.0 0.0 1 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 0
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    20 18 152 119 34 0 0 4 1 0 0 0 9 2 3


    Donte Whiter: First Two Regular Seasons

    G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF FR


    15 14 104 67 37 0.0 0.0 4 1 10 10.0 10 0 0 0

    15 15 89 68 21 0.0 0.0 1 1 29 29.0 29 0 0 0
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    30 29 193 135 58 0 0 5 2 39 19.5 29 0 0 0


    As one can see, Whitner's stats are at least comparable, if not, in some areas, better than Sanders' stats, particularly considering that some of Sanders' tackles his first two seasons were made on special teams.

    Whitner's critics often point to the fact that he has not had a lot of passes defensed or created many turnovers during his first two seasons with the Bills as evidence of the fact that he has not shown the ability to be the kind of play-maker that Sanders has become. Yet, comparing Whitner's first two seasons to Sanders' first three seasons, Whitner has one more pass defensed and just one fewer total turnovers generated (one more interception and two fewer forced fumbles).

    These statistics do not take into account the fact that during his first two seasons with the Bills Whitner has not really been in a position to concentrate on "being a play-maker" on defense the way that Sanders and Reed have on the defenses that they have played on.

    Because of the weakness of the Bills' run defense, Whitner has had to concentrate a great deal on playing in run support during his first two seasons with the Bills. The Bills' run defense has been so bad that, at times, Whitner has virtually had to be a fourth linebacker, which certainly has had a negative impact on his ability to be effective in pass coverage and make plays against the opposition's passing game.

    As if that were not bad enough, much of the brunt of dealing with all of the injuries that the Bills suffered on defense, particularly to their back seven, fell on Whitner's shoulders. With injuries causing almost weekly turnovers in personnel, Whitner was forced to play at least some of the game out of position for much of the season. In addition to helping in run support, there were times when he had to shade his coverage to help the linebackers in coverage. At other times, due to injuries to the Bills cornerbacks and safeties, he was forced to play cornerback or cover wide receivers in the slot. As just a second year player, Whitner was called upon to be the stabilizing force in the middle of the Bills back seven on defense and, as such, spent more time serving as a "band-aid" to cover for his teammates than he was able to spend trying to be a disruptive "play-maker".

    Additionally, what the stats do not show is the leadership that Whitner provided to the Bills off-the-field--something that the Bills stated was a critical factor in their decision to select Whitner when they drafted him. While many fans, particularly those obsessed by statistics, do not care about, let alone appreciate, leadership in the lockerroom or anything that happens off-the-field, leadership is what makes the difference between the more experienced, veteran-laden Bills team collapsed in 2005 and the way that the young Bills squad of 2007 responded to the adversity that they faced.

    With the crushing early season defeats and injuries that they suffered, including the near-fatal injury to Kevin Everett, the 2007 Bills could very easily have collapsed as a team. However, as has been widely reported, in response to all of the injuries that the team had sustained on defense, Donte Whitner decided to invite his defensive mates to come over to his house on their off-day for "get-togethers" that were designed to be a combination study session and "bonding". These "get-togethers" became a regular, weekly occurence that more than one of Whitner's teammates later credited with helping the team to face and rebound from the injuries and adversity that plagued the team during the season.

    That kind of leadership doesn't show up in any stat columns, but is essential to the building of a winning team in any sport, but especially football. And, it should be taken into consideration in assessing Donte Whitner's performance and contribution to the Bills during his first two seasons with the team.

    Considering how close Whitner's stats during his first two seasons have been to Bob Sanders' stats during his first three seasons, even if you don't take into consideration Whitner's leadership or the injuries and other circumstances that have impacted Whitner's play since joining the Bills, it is hard to comprehend how anyone willing to make a fair assessment can conclude that Whitner has been anything less than precisely the kind of player expected him to be when they decided to use the eighth pick in the draft to select him two years ago.

    So say that Whitner has been mediocre or that he will never become the kind of player that Bob Sanders has been simply ignores the evidence: in his two seasons, Whitner has given the Bills more and been every bit the player that Sanders was for Indianapolis during his first three seasons. And, hopefully, Whitner will continue to match--and perhaps even exceed--Sanders' play as his career moves forward.
    Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And, thus it was that they surrendered their freedom; not with a bang, but without even a whimper.
  • Mr. Miyagi
    Lecter's Little *****

    • Sep 2002
    • 53616

    #2
    Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

    I agree. Michael Huff was picked before Whitner. How's he doing?

    Comment

    • John Doe
      Florida Man
      • Jul 2002
      • 2516

      #3
      Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

      Around here, if a player is not performing at an all-star level by the middle of his rookie season, he qualifies as a "bust."

      Comment

      • gr8slayer
        Registered User
        • Feb 2005
        • 20796

        #4
        Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

        Whitner leaves a lot to be desired and any criticism is warranted. This will be his third year and he like all rookies get three years before they get the bust label. He needs to step it up.

        Comment

        • RoanokeVABillsFan
          Registered User
          • Sep 2005
          • 65

          #5
          Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

          Good Post! The best is yet to come. He's going into his 3rd year with all this experience. He works hard and will keep improving. The impact plays will come as the team gets better in front of him. Everyone points out how our DE's, DT's and LB's don't get enough sacks and pressures on the QB. Look at what they're saying about Samuels now. He's a risk taker and will get exposed when he doesn't have all the NE front 7 pressure that he has now. While I don't agree with that, I think Samuels is a really good CB, it just goes to show that the front 7 is key in allowing the DB's to make plays and we clearly don't have enough of it right now.

          Comment

          • raphael120
            Jason Peters rigorous at home training regiment
            • Oct 2005
            • 5152

            #6
            Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

            I dont think it's so much Whitner's problem as much as it was the foolishness of choosing him as the 8th overall. We couldve traded down, or gotten better value for that pick. Im sure he'll turn out to be solid, but worthy of an 8th pick? I dunno...

            Comment

            • OpIv37
              Acid Douching Asswipe
              • Sep 2002
              • 101255

              #7
              Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

              Whitner missed a tackle on McGahee that led to a touchdown- so much for concentrating on the run. That wasn't his only error in run D but it was the most glaring.

              And I love how you blame the D for Whitner not making plays. All we ever hear about is how it's the system's fault or a coach's fault or another player's fault- why is it that no player is ever expected to take responsibility for his own play.

              The truth is that we could do worse than Whitner, but he has not had the impact that a #8 overall pick should. But hey- he was Marv's pick so we're not allowed to knock him, even though Marv isn't even here anymore.
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              Comment

              • OpIv37
                Acid Douching Asswipe
                • Sep 2002
                • 101255

                #8
                Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                Originally posted by Mr. Miyagi
                I agree. Michael Huff was picked before Whitner. How's he doing?
                Huff's performance is irrelevant. We wouldn't have been better off with Huff- that's true, but so what? Whitner is still expected to perform and he's been very average. What Huff does or doesn't do for some other team won't change that fact.
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                Comment

                • EDS
                  Registered User
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 5216

                  #9
                  Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                  When Whitner's impact starts to approach the impact Sanders has on a game then I think it will be fair to do a comparison of the two. Before that happens, however, all the stats in the world cannot erase the simple fact that Whitner has, to date, not had a meaningful impact on the Bills defense.

                  Whitner is talented, but when watching the games I keep getting the feeling that the Bills should reconsider how they use him, since for all his speed, he is not a great center fielder.

                  Comment

                  • X-Era
                    What this generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace
                    • Feb 2005
                    • 27670

                    #10
                    Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                    Originally posted by LifetimeBillsFan
                    I'm sick and tired of reading all of the articles (C.Byrne and P.Moran) and posts that have become commonplace here denigrating the performance of Donte Whitner for the Bills the last two years. To read some of the stuff that has been written, you would think that Whitner has been an absolute bust who has been mediocre at best.

                    I know that a lot of Bills fans were upset that the team chose to pass on Haloti Ngata, who has made the Pro Bowl (what about Broderick Bunkley--how well has he played?), to select Whitner two years ago, but the criticism that has been leveled at Whitner by those who do not believe that Whitner has developed into the "difference-maker" that they believe that Ngata would have been for the Bills has, quite frankly, been unfair and unwarranted.

                    Whitner's critic love to point to the fact that Whitner has not put up the kind of statistics or generated the kind of turnovers that perennial All-Pro safety Ed Reed or NFL Defensive MVP Bob Sanders have. However, this ignores the fact that Whitner has played in a totally different defensive system and behind a grossly less talented front seven than Reed and that Whitner's numbers have been at least comparable to those of Sanders during the Indianapolis strong safety's first three years in the NFL.

                    Comparing Whitner's stats to those of Reed would be akin to comparing apples to oranges. While one can argue that Sanders, who replaced Mike Doss in the starting lineup, joined a Colts defense that was already better and more talented than the Bills defense was when Whitner first stepped on the field for the Bills, Whitner was drafted by the Bills to play the same position in a similar defensive system--to be the Bills' "Bob Sanders"--making a comparison of Whitner's performance for the Bills during his first two seasons comparable to Sanders' performance for the Colts during his first three seasons.

                    Bob Sanders: First Three Regular Seasons

                    G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF FR


                    6 4 34 29 5 0.0 0.0 1 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 2

                    14 14 91 71 20 0.0 0.0 2 1 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 1

                    4 4 27 19 8 0.0 0.0 1 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 0
                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    20 18 152 119 34 0 0 4 1 0 0 0 9 2 3


                    Donte Whiter: First Two Regular Seasons

                    G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF FR


                    15 14 104 67 37 0.0 0.0 4 1 10 10.0 10 0 0 0

                    15 15 89 68 21 0.0 0.0 1 1 29 29.0 29 0 0 0
                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    30 29 193 135 58 0 0 5 2 39 19.5 29 0 0 0


                    As one can see, Whitner's stats are at least comparable, if not, in some areas, better than Sanders' stats, particularly considering that some of Sanders' tackles his first two seasons were made on special teams.

                    Whitner's critics often point to the fact that he has not had a lot of passes defensed or created many turnovers during his first two seasons with the Bills as evidence of the fact that he has not shown the ability to be the kind of play-maker that Sanders has become. Yet, comparing Whitner's first two seasons to Sanders' first three seasons, Whitner has one more pass defensed and just one fewer total turnovers generated (one more interception and two fewer forced fumbles).

                    These statistics do not take into account the fact that during his first two seasons with the Bills Whitner has not really been in a position to concentrate on "being a play-maker" on defense the way that Sanders and Reed have on the defenses that they have played on.

                    Because of the weakness of the Bills' run defense, Whitner has had to concentrate a great deal on playing in run support during his first two seasons with the Bills. The Bills' run defense has been so bad that, at times, Whitner has virtually had to be a fourth linebacker, which certainly has had a negative impact on his ability to be effective in pass coverage and make plays against the opposition's passing game.

                    As if that were not bad enough, much of the brunt of dealing with all of the injuries that the Bills suffered on defense, particularly to their back seven, fell on Whitner's shoulders. With injuries causing almost weekly turnovers in personnel, Whitner was forced to play at least some of the game out of position for much of the season. In addition to helping in run support, there were times when he had to shade his coverage to help the linebackers in coverage. At other times, due to injuries to the Bills cornerbacks and safeties, he was forced to play cornerback or cover wide receivers in the slot. As just a second year player, Whitner was called upon to be the stabilizing force in the middle of the Bills back seven on defense and, as such, spent more time serving as a "band-aid" to cover for his teammates than he was able to spend trying to be a disruptive "play-maker".

                    Additionally, what the stats do not show is the leadership that Whitner provided to the Bills off-the-field--something that the Bills stated was a critical factor in their decision to select Whitner when they drafted him. While many fans, particularly those obsessed by statistics, do not care about, let alone appreciate, leadership in the lockerroom or anything that happens off-the-field, leadership is what makes the difference between the more experienced, veteran-laden Bills team collapsed in 2005 and the way that the young Bills squad of 2007 responded to the adversity that they faced.

                    With the crushing early season defeats and injuries that they suffered, including the near-fatal injury to Kevin Everett, the 2007 Bills could very easily have collapsed as a team. However, as has been widely reported, in response to all of the injuries that the team had sustained on defense, Donte Whitner decided to invite his defensive mates to come over to his house on their off-day for "get-togethers" that were designed to be a combination study session and "bonding". These "get-togethers" became a regular, weekly occurence that more than one of Whitner's teammates later credited with helping the team to face and rebound from the injuries and adversity that plagued the team during the season.

                    That kind of leadership doesn't show up in any stat columns, but is essential to the building of a winning team in any sport, but especially football. And, it should be taken into consideration in assessing Donte Whitner's performance and contribution to the Bills during his first two seasons with the team.

                    Considering how close Whitner's stats during his first two seasons have been to Bob Sanders' stats during his first three seasons, even if you don't take into consideration Whitner's leadership or the injuries and other circumstances that have impacted Whitner's play since joining the Bills, it is hard to comprehend how anyone willing to make a fair assessment can conclude that Whitner has been anything less than precisely the kind of player expected him to be when they decided to use the eighth pick in the draft to select him two years ago.

                    So say that Whitner has been mediocre or that he will never become the kind of player that Bob Sanders has been simply ignores the evidence: in his two seasons, Whitner has given the Bills more and been every bit the player that Sanders was for Indianapolis during his first three seasons. And, hopefully, Whitner will continue to match--and perhaps even exceed--Sanders' play as his career moves forward.
                    I think its a case of needing a scapeqoat, Whitner is a helluva S IMO

                    Comment

                    • OpIv37
                      Acid Douching Asswipe
                      • Sep 2002
                      • 101255

                      #11
                      Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                      Originally posted by EdwardsEra
                      I think its a case of needing a scapeqoat, Whitner is a helluva S IMO
                      I think you're dead wrong- this is a case of defending an underperforming player.

                      Why would we need a scapegoat when so many players played poorly?
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                      Comment

                      • PECKERWOOD
                        Defies all logic
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 13170

                        #12
                        Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                        Yeah, Whitner sucks. Let's move him out to CB.

                        Comment

                        • OpIv37
                          Acid Douching Asswipe
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 101255

                          #13
                          Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                          Originally posted by BuffaloFever
                          Yeah, Whitner sucks. Let's move him out to CB.
                          I wouldn't say he sucks- he's still the best safety on our roster. My problem with him is that he hasn't met expectations and so far his production has been a poor return on investment for the #8 pick we used on him.
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                          Comment

                          • gr8slayer
                            Registered User
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 20796

                            #14
                            Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                            Originally posted by BuffaloFever
                            Yeah, Whitner sucks. Let's move him out to CB.
                            Good idea

                            Comment

                            • OpIv37
                              Acid Douching Asswipe
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 101255

                              #15
                              Re: Whitner vs Sanders Comparison of First 2-3 Seasons

                              and for the record, when I say Bills fans accept mediocrity, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Rather than calling Whitner out for not living up to expectations, people defend his lackluster performance and write novels about why it's everyone's fault but his.
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