Merged JP threads

[ghz in pittsburgh]

after watching Beg Ben getting a $102 million contract from the Steelers with $36 million guaranteed money.

After all, the Steelers actually brought JP in for a pre-draft visit, but they never even contacted Roethlisburger once before they took him in that draft.

[acehole]

after watching Beg Ben getting a $102 million contract from the Steelers with $36 million guaranteed money.

After all, the Steelers actually brought JP in for a pre-draft visit, but they never even contacted Roethlisburger once before they took him in that draft.

The Steelers did it right...they got a complete team around the position first.....then pluged the qb in last. That is how you groom a young qb.

[Hawkeye Pierce]

Why should JP be upset? He was not drafted by the Steelers. He was given a chance. People come and go. Trapper went home and they kept coming. Frank went home and they kept coming. Henry was killed and they kept coming. They'll keep playing after JP has retired. The goal is to make as much of your opportunity when it arises.

[The King]

He should be upset. He should be upset he didnt do the most with the opportunity that was literally handed to him.

[justasportsfan]

I would be upset too if I was drafted by a crappy organization. Thats what we were back then.

[djjimkelly]

The Steelers did it right...they got a complete team around the position first.....then pluged the qb in last. That is how you groom a young qb.


yeah lol and now that they benched JP look we are trying to sign a wr and sign a TE go figure

[kgun12]

The Steelers did it right...they got a complete team around the position first.....then pluged the qb in last. That is how you groom a young qb.


Great post, if the steelers would have drafted JP, he probably is getting the big contract extension! Just saying. :idunno:

[mikemac2001]

yeah lol and now that they benched JP look we are trying to sign a wr and sign a TE go figure


im a huge jp fan but we gave him plenty of times and he doesnt want to be here so he is leaving at end of year anyways so lets ship him out get some picks and let him start his career over somewhere new

[mybills]

Maybe he didn't like the houses in Pittsburgh.

[justasportsfan]

im a huge jp fan but we gave him plenty of times to get hit and sacked and run for his life.

[kgun12]

Why should JP be upset? He was not drafted by the Steelers. He was given a chance. People come and go. Trapper went home and they kept coming. Frank went home and they kept coming. Henry was killed and they kept coming. They'll keep playing after JP has retired. The goal is to make as much of your opportunity when it arises.

I love MASH, watch it everyday, but this will get old REAL QUICK! :shakeno:

[TacklingDummy]

Great post, if the steelers would have drafted JP, he probably is getting the big contract extension! Just saying. :idunno:

Most likely the Steelers never would have made it to the Super Bowl if that happened.

[The King]

I keep reading from various posters "I am a big JP fan". Im not spamming, but what exactly are you a fan of? I get it he's a good guy. But what else what makes you a fan of his?

:feedback:

Thanks

[mikemac2001]

to get hit and sacked and run for his life.


what if Trent gets hurt and jp leads us to playoffs with this new core of guys

do you think he would stay?

No so lets atleast get something for him

[justasportsfan]

Most likely the Steelers never would have made it to the Super Bowl if that happened.
really? Eli won a sb . One can argue that JP would've been as good if not better if he was drafted by the giants.

[Jaybird]

so now losman is a good QB???

the problem was the team???

I realize he didnt have the best of the best around him, but let's get real. His issues as a Qb are much more then what is around him. He takes forver to get ride of the ball, he doesn't keep his eyes down field when he's run around, he locks onto one WR....... i mean get real people.

The funniest part about all this is, i even like the guy!!! rocket arm very athletic, just can't figure out the mental aspects of the game. He would have been the same kinda guy on the steelers, better numbers, more wins, but thats it. He would have not gotten signed like Big ben

[kgun12]

Most likely the Steelers never would have made it to the Super Bowl if that happened.


I know your prejudice towards JP, but I believe he would have done the same thing for the steelers the Ben did, including the SB win!

[justasportsfan]

what if Trent gets hurt and jp leads us to playoffs with this new core of guys

do you think he would stay?

No so lets atleast get something for himThis sounds like the Flutie and Rob Johnson era.

If Trent gets hurt and JP leads us to the playoffs we bench Trent and make JP the qb. It's a no brainer.

[Mr. Pink]

:rofl:

Yes, it's the Bills coaching staff and front office's fault that JP can't read defenses, can't feel the blitz, has poor ball security and poor mechanics.

Unreal.

[mikemac2001]

This sounds like the Flutie and Rob Johnson era.

If Trent gets hurt and JP leads us to the playoffs we bench Trent and make JP the qb. It's a no brainer.


Jp will leave thats the issue

[Philagape]

:rofl:

Yes, it's the Bills coaching staff and front office's fault that JP can't read defenses, can't feel the blitz, has poor ball security and poor mechanics.

Unreal.

It's like he's a video game character, with someone else controlling him with a joystick. The Madden analysis.

[TacklingDummy]

He has all the potential to be the franchise QB that we have been missing since Jim Kelly retired. The arm, the legs, the body, the hair, the attitude. It's not his fault that everything has gone against him.

[gr8slayer]

Do we seriously need to start another Losman thread?

[mikemac2001]

I think he could be a good QB i think in buffalo he has had chances but really never had a great core around him. he had new coaches every year and nothing was stable.

Now for the first time we actually have some stability in the team....i think we should trade him but if he stayed and got a chance to play i think he would play much better then we have seen.

[justasportsfan]

Jp will leave thats the issue
I don't care, if Trent goes down and JP's leads us to the playoffs and leaves next year is a better option than Trent goes down and his replacement takes us no where.

[Philagape]

He has a good arm and can run. History, of course, has shown that's all it takes to be a good QB. :insane:

[justasportsfan]

Do we seriously need to start another Losman thread?
and they keep telling us to move on. Hilarious.

[Mr. Pink]

It's like he's a video game character, with someone else controlling him with a joystick. The Madden analysis.

I can't wait til this no talent ass clown is gone. Just so we don't have to read anymore ridiculous and stupid threads like this anymore.

[justasportsfan]

another JP thread.

[mybills]

He's hot!
He's mobile.
He has a gun for an arm.
He needs a team that won't put a leash on him, see answers 1 and 2.

[djjimkelly]

I would be upset too if I was drafted by a crappy organization. Thats what we were back then.


sadly i think we are still that

[Jan Reimers]

I like his athletic ability and his heart. His mind, however, is another story.

[justasportsfan]

I can't wait til this no talent ass clown is gone. Just so we don't have to read anymore ridiculous and stupid threads like this anymore.
there will still be threads if Trent doesn't light it up.

[TedMock]

He's hot!

Hopefully Trent is handsome enough to play well.

[Mr. Pink]

there will still be threads if Trent doesn't light it up.

Not when JP is either vanquished to 3rd string or out of the league.

[The Spaz]

I like his athletic ability and his heart. His mind, however, is another story.

Mind is very important in being a good QB!:up::beers:

[kgun12]

Some of us aren't of the generation that says you better produce today or we will hate you tomorrow! Hell check out B. Favre's first 4 years in Geen Bay, They were ready to tar and feather him and ship him out on a bus. (I know I have a brother n law who is a huge GB fan.) He talks all the time about what a mistake it would have been to give up on him as quick as Buffalo gave up on JP. Remember 4 plus years 64+ games not including preseason, so 80+ games, not the 31 or so JP got. I'm not saying he would have ever been in Brett's class, but we gave up on him before we could ever find out!

[justasportsfan]

Not when JP is either vanquished to 3rd string or out of the league.

Until then .....PS- just forward me the zb's/ Lets not waste time here :D.

[Mitchy moo]

JP is the great guy off the football field, no one can deny that.

[User Manuel]

I dont disagree with any of his qualifications. He may have the best deep ball in the NFL. Unfortunately, he is so inaccurate with the short and intermediate ball that it short circuits our offense.

I will grant you that he has had a poor set of circumstances, but how many times do we have to see a guy, wide open, have to go to his knees to catch a poorly thrown ball in the flat. How many short hops to wide open guys. How many passes batted down. How many screen passes thrown either way too high or too short. Those aren't just NFL throws, those are high school throws.

An NFL QB MUST get the ball off on time and in a position to give the reciever a chance to do something. JP just hasn't shown that, ever. That IS his fault. I have seen no evidence he has tried to fix it.

I actually have rooted for him to succeed, I want him to succeed, but I have concluded it just isn't going to happen here.

[Mr. Pink]

Some of us aren't of the generation that says you better produce today or we will hate you tomorrow! Hell check out B. Favre's first 4 years in Geen Bay, They were ready to tar and feather him and ship him out on a bus. (I know I have a brother n law who is a huge GB fan.) He talks all the time about what a mistake it would have been to give up on him as quick as Buffalo gave up on JP. Remember 4 plus years 64+ games not including preseason, so 80+ games, not the 31 or so JP got. I'm not saying he would have ever been in Brett's class, but we gave up on him before we could ever find out!

Damn the Bills for giving up on Bruce Mathison too fast too!

Damn the 49ers for giving up on Jim Druckenmiller too fast!

Damn the Bengals for giving up on Akili Smith too fast!

Damn the Bears for giving up on Cade McNown too fast!

Damn the Seahawks for giving up on Dan McGwire too fast!

You never know, they all could have been the next great QB! So you should sit on a bum for years in hope they develop!

[bflojohn]

This is just me, but he IS a Buffalo Bills player who I put a good amount of hope and emotional baggage into, so his ultimate demise in Buffalo, New York pains me a GREAT deal. It seems to me that the human element is sometimes weeded out, and we as fans don't care about families, feelings, and emotions! They ALL are wonderfully talented young men who have a uphill battle to succeed in the National Football League. It is an extremely hard endeavor, but I DO feel for him and will be a Jonathan Paul Losman fan going forward, no matter what!!

[justasportsfan]

Damn the Bills for giving up on Bruce Mathison too fast too!

Damn the 49ers for giving up on Jim Druckenmiller too fast!

Damn the Bengals for giving up on Akili Smith too fast!

Damn the Bears for giving up on Cade McNown too fast!

Damn the Seahawks for giving up on Dan McGwire too fast!

You never know, they all could have been the next great QB! So you should sit on a bum for years in hope they develop!


Hows Anderson doing these days? I thought you said he was too inconsistent to be the Browns future?

[Mr. Pink]

Hows Anderson doing these days? I thought you said he was too inconsistent to be the Browns future?

He is inconsistent. Just watch him play.

First 9 games he lit the league up...last 7 he threw more INTs than TDs.

His issues with consistency will be a huge problem for the Browns making and/or going far in the playoffs unless he corrects it.

I still hate Brady Quinn.

[Philagape]

Hell check out B. Favre's first 4 years in Geen Bay,

OK.

In his third year with GB he had 3,882 yards, 33 TDs and 90.7 rating.

In his fourth year he had 4,413 yards, 38 TDs and 99.5 rating.

In those years GB went 20-12.

Oops.


And who was the alternative?

[Mr. Pink]

OK.

In his third year with GB he had 3,882 yards, 33 TDs and 90.7 rating.

In his fourth year he had 4,413 yards, 38 TDs and 99.5 rating.


oops.

I believe that's more than an oops!

[Michael82]

Some of us aren't of the generation that says you better produce today or we will hate you tomorrow! Hell check out B. Favre's first 4 years in Geen Bay, They were ready to tar and feather him and ship him out on a bus. (I know I have a brother n law who is a huge GB fan.) He talks all the time about what a mistake it would have been to give up on him as quick as Buffalo gave up on JP. Remember 4 plus years 64+ games not including preseason, so 80+ games, not the 31 or so JP got. I'm not saying he would have ever been in Brett's class, but we gave up on him before we could ever find out!
Excellent post! My thoughts exactly! :bf1:

[justasportsfan]

He is inconsistent. Just watch him play.

First 9 games he lit the league up...last 7 he threw more INTs than TDs.

His issues with consistency will be a huge problem for the Browns making and/or going far in the playoffs unless he corrects it.

I still hate Brady Quinn.


the leagues 8th ranked offense is clueless? Could've fooled me. You must porbably hate the bills then after finishing at the bottom of the league offensively.

[TacklingDummy]

Damn the Bills for giving up on Bruce Mathison too fast too!

Damn the 49ers for giving up on Jim Druckenmiller too fast!

Damn the Bengals for giving up on Akili Smith too fast!

Damn the Bears for giving up on Cade McNown too fast!

Damn the Seahawks for giving up on Dan McGwire too fast!

You never know, they all could have been the next great QB! So you should sit on a bum for years in hope they develop!

Damn the Bills for giving up on Rob Johnson too fast!

Damn the Bengals for giving up on David Klingler too fast!

Damn the Lions for giving up on Andre Ware too fast!

Damn the Chargers and Cowboys for giving up on Ryan Leaf too fast!

Damn the Browns for giving up on Tim Couch too fast!

Damn the Raiders for giving up on Todd Marinovich too fast!

[Mr. Miyagi]

I keep reading from various posters "I am a big JP fan". Im not spamming, but what exactly are you a fan of? I get it he's a good guy. But what else what makes you a fan of his?

:feedback:

Thanks
Bedard why are you starting **** like this again? Don't we have enough of these threads?? :mad:

[justasportsfan]

Hilarious. Comparing Greenbays team to the bills in the last 4 years. What a joke.

[kgun12]

Damn the Bills for giving up on Bruce Mathison too fast too!

Damn the 49ers for giving up on Jim Druckenmiller too fast!

Damn the Bengals for giving up on Akili Smith too fast!

Damn the Bears for giving up on Cade McNown too fast!

Damn the Seahawks for giving up on Dan McGwire too fast!

You never know, they all could have been the next great QB! So you should sit on a bum for years in hope they develop!

Thank god the Packers didn't give up on Favre!

Thank God the Saints never gave up on A. Manning, Hell never even got them to a playoff game.

Thank God Steelers never gave up on Bradshaw!

Thank God the Bears didn't give up on Jim McMahn (sp)

Thank God there were teams not willing to give up on Doug Williams, and Trent Dilfer!

Your right, you never know, they all turned out to the next great QB! So maybe you should sit on a bum for years in hope they develop!

I can play that game also. There use to be a time that said it takes an NFL QB 4 years to get it!

[gr8slayer]

Another ****ing Losman thread? You people seriously need to move on already.

[SquishDaFish]

Im a fan of whomever is on the Bills team

[gr8slayer]

Im a fan of whomever is on the Bills team
Seriously, whoever is starting is who I will be rooting for.

[TedMock]

Another ****ing Losman thread? You people seriously need to move on already.

This is nothing. We still get the two 1998 signings (I wont' mention names) popping up every now and then. There was actually a pretty long thread a couple of weeks ago. Good times.

[TacklingDummy]

Another ****ing Losman thread? You people seriously need to move on already.

The best (saddest) thing to happen when Losman gets traded will be not as many Losman threads.

I won't have much to talk about though.

Hmm, Trent Edwards and his rag arm blows.

[bflojohn]

A fan of MASH, and no Radar O'Reilly reference.... weak!!! KGun12, that should fulfill the quota for MASH references, I'm with you on the "getting old" possibilities! As for JP, the Buffalo Bills FAILED during his tenure in Buffalo. The team wasn't suddenly the Buffalo Losmans, sorry, but I wholeheartedly agree with justa on this one!!

[gr8slayer]

The best (saddest) thing to happen when Losman gets traded will be not as many Losman threads.

I won't have much to talk about though.

Hmm, Trent Edwards and his rag arm blows.
I wish we'd just get a freaking QB already. I'm so tired of having this damn 2 QB circus.

[justasportsfan]

I won't have much to talk about though.

.haha! You'd still be starting I hate Jp threads. Who are you trying to kid?

[TacklingDummy]

haha! You'd still be starting I hate Jp threads. Who are you trying to kid?


The funny thing is, I can count on 1 hand how many JP threads I've started in 4 years.

[trapezeus]

Some of us aren't of the generation that says you better produce today or we will hate you tomorrow! Hell check out B. Favre's first 4 years in Geen Bay, They were ready to tar and feather him and ship him out on a bus. (I know I have a brother n law who is a huge GB fan.) He talks all the time about what a mistake it would have been to give up on him as quick as Buffalo gave up on JP. Remember 4 plus years 64+ games not including preseason, so 80+ games, not the 31 or so JP got. I'm not saying he would have ever been in Brett's class, but we gave up on him before we could ever find out!


For every brett Favre that comes out of these situations, there a lot more vince feregamos and other duds. I don't see anything in losman that suggests he is going to elevate to another level. What we've seen is what we've gotten.

[Mr. Pink]

Thank god the Packers didn't give up on Favre!

Thank God the Saints never gave up on A. Manning, Hell never even got them to a playoff game.

Thank God Steelers never gave up on Bradshaw!

Thank God the Bears didn't give up on Jim McMahn (sp)

Thank God there were teams not willing to give up on Doug Williams, and Trent Dilfer!

Your right, you never know, they all turned out to the next great QB! So maybe you should sit on a bum for years in hope they develop!

I can play that game also. There use to be a time that said it takes an NFL QB 4 years to get it!
It took Favre 2 seasons to get it as was proved in this thread. For every QB you put on here that suddenly got it after years of sucking I can probably name 10 that kept sucking or were outright cut.

I love the McMahon and Dilfer references though, because those teams weren't the most dominant defenses the NFL has seen in the past 25 years or anything. And that Steel Curtain defense surely didn't play the biggest part in the Steelers success either.

Archie Manning did a lot of nothing in his career. He was an average at best QB who played on downright poor teams his entire career. Two of his three sons have eclipsed their dad in short time. Peyton eclipsed it in 2 years.

Doug Williams was a one year flash in the pan...see Mark Rypien, Dilfer, Kerry Collins, the Hoss, just to name a few. And certainly Timmy Smith, the one game wonder, with 230ish yards had nothing to do with the Skins winning that SB over the Broncos.

Who else you got? This could get interesting.

I'll start it out for fun....Couch, Klingler, Browning Nagle, Cade McNown, McGwire, Zolak, Eric Zeier, Boller, Brian Griese, Andre Ware, Marinovich, Scott Mitchell, Rob Johnson, Tommy Maddox, Tony Banks, Alexander Wright, Quincy Carter, Joey Harrington, David Carr.

And that's just a list I came up with in my head in 2 minutes without having to go back more than 20 years.

[justasportsfan]

The funny thing is, I can count on 1 hand how many JP threads I've started in 4 years.
bet you can't count how many bashing JP references you've posted. :D

[gr8slayer]

It took Favre 2 seasons to get it as was proved in this thread. For every QB you put on here that suddenly got it after years of sucking I can probably name 10 that kept sucking or were outright cut.

I love the McMahon and Dilfer references though, because those teams weren't the most dominant defenses the NFL has seen in the past 25 years or anything. And that Steel Curtain defense surely didn't play the biggest part in the Steelers success either.

Archie Manning did a lot of nothing in his career. He was an average at best QB who played on downright poor teams his entire career. Two of his three sons have eclipsed their dad in short time. Peyton eclipsed it in 2 years.

Doug Williams was a one year flash in the pan...see Mark Rypien, Dilfer, Kerry Collins, the Hoss, just to name a few. And certainly Timmy Smith, the one game wonder, with 230ish yards had nothing to do with the Skins winning that SB over the Broncos.

Who else you got? This could get interesting.

I'll start it out for fun....Couch, Klingler, Browning Nagle, Cade McNown, McGwire, Zolak, Eric Zeier, Boller, Brian Griese, Andre Ware, Marinovich, Scott Mitchell, Rob Johnson, Tommy Maddox, Tony Banks, Alexander Wright, Quincy Carter, Joey Harrington, David Carr.

And that's just a list I came up with in my head in 2 minutes without having to go back more than 20 years.
Ok so you don't like Losman and you like Edwards, good for you. What is your excuse going to be next year when/if he craps his pants.

[kernowboy]

I think we need to consider the follow facts.

1) Until this year the Offensive Line has been awful and any rookie QB would've struggled. Imagine Edwards being defended by Gandy and Williams

2) He has had a tough initation. Broken leg, then given the job, the messed around by the coaching team. Remember when he was given a challenge with Holcomb and Nall, he came through and had a good season despite a dodgy line and little supporting cast

3) Carr, Harrington, Alex Smith have all been worse QBs in my opinion

4) The unanswered question will always be, what might have happened if we'd simply stuck all through his growing pains under Mularky and provided a decent No2, TE, and offensive line from the start.

[justasportsfan]

It took Favre 2 seasons to get it as was proved in this thread. For every QB you put on here that suddenly got it after years of sucking I can probably name 10 that kept sucking or were outright cut.

I love the McMahon and Dilfer references though, because those teams weren't the most dominant defenses the NFL has seen in the past 25 years or anything. And that Steel Curtain defense surely didn't play the biggest part in the Steelers success either.

Archie Manning did a lot of nothing in his career. He was an average at best QB who played on downright poor teams his entire career. Two of his three sons have eclipsed their dad in short time. Peyton eclipsed it in 2 years.

Doug Williams was a one year flash in the pan...see Mark Rypien, Dilfer, Kerry Collins, the Hoss, just to name a few. And certainly Timmy Smith, the one game wonder, with 230ish yards had nothing to do with the Skins winning that SB over the Broncos.

Who else you got? This could get interesting.

I'll start it out for fun....Couch, Klingler, Browning Nagle, Cade McNown, McGwire, Zolak, Eric Zeier, Boller, Brian Griese, Andre Ware, Marinovich, Scott Mitchell, Rob Johnson, Tommy Maddox, Tony Banks, Alexander Wright, Quincy Carter, Joey Harrington, David Carr.

And that's just a list I came up with in my head in 2 minutes without having to go back more than 20 years.
I get it. For every Farve there's a Rob Johnson.

You can't however tell us that JP falls on either category just yet if it's COMMON knowledge that he had nothing to work with other than Lee.

IF JP was UNDOUBTEDLY in a decent situation, I say stick a fork in him. Not even Trents biggest fans can say he was.

[TacklingDummy]

We are DOOMED.

[kgun12]

Just remember I never said JP would be a great QB, what I said is I think we gave up on him way to quick. Hell if Pittsburg and Gren Bay would have done this we would have never known the greatness of Favre and Bradshaw! Look at the numbers for the first few years, Bradshaw brings up all the time that he had more interceptions than TD his first 3 or 4 years, and Brett sucked!

That's all, get as mad as you want, your opinion and mine are like *******s we all have one and they all stink! :;

[acehole]

I keep reading from various posters "I am a big JP fan". Im not spamming, but what exactly are you a fan of? I get it he's a good guy. But what else what makes you a fan of his?

:feedback:

Thanks
Not a JP fan ....just smart enough to know when to place blame...and when there is enough to go around. I dont think he was put in the best situation to excel....and I think far to many losses were put on his shoulders unfairly. Edwards to me is like Obama. Alot of hype with no substance. What I think he is is a promising young prospect. You people talk about man crushes...some of you with your Montana references have to ease up. He has thrown 1 td pass from the 3 yard line for cryng out loud. He injury prone label seems to have followed him from school to the pros as well. I would hate for us to spend all of this money on a team finally and he ends up on IR or he is not the Jesus type savior some of you make him out to be. I think they want somebody to hand the ball off to M Lynch 35 times a game and not to turn the ball over. His int's have to be somwhat alarming to any fan or FO person. If JP is gone before or after this year then so be it. In the right situation I think he will do well. If I am the Bills I better have a plan B for Trent Edwards...imho you are going to need one.

[Mr. Pink]

Ok so you don't like Losman and you like Edwards, good for you. What is your excuse going to be next year when/if he craps his pants.

Apparently you don't focus or pay attention to my posts.

At this point, I'd rather lure Jeff George out of retirement to start for the Bills than JP. Give me any of the other starting QBs on any NFL team and I'd rather have them as the starter here than JP.

We've seen what JP can do. And that's absolutely nothing that is gonna lead us to the next level. It's time to cut the cord and move on from a bad decision.

What can Trent do? Who knows? But it sure as hell can't be as bad as what we got the last 4 years when Losman was under center.

[justasportsfan]

Apparently you don't focus or pay attention to my posts.

At this point, I'd rather lure Jeff George out of retirement to start for the Bills than JP. Give me any of the other starting QBs on any NFL team and I'd rather have them as the starter here than JP.

We've seen what JP can do. And that's absolutely nothing that is gonna lead us to the next level. It's time to cut the cord and move on from a bad decision.

What can Trent do? Who knows? But it sure as hell can't be as bad as what we got the last 4 years when Losman was under center.
Hilarious. Pure hate.

[kgun12]

It took Favre 2 seasons to get it as was proved in this thread. For every QB you put on here that suddenly got it after years of sucking I can probably name 10 that kept sucking or were outright cut.

I love the McMahon and Dilfer references though, because those teams weren't the most dominant defenses the NFL has seen in the past 25 years or anything. And that Steel Curtain defense surely didn't play the biggest part in the Steelers success either.

Archie Manning did a lot of nothing in his career. He was an average at best QB who played on downright poor teams his entire career. Two of his three sons have eclipsed their dad in short time. Peyton eclipsed it in 2 years.

Doug Williams was a one year flash in the pan...see Mark Rypien, Dilfer, Kerry Collins, the Hoss, just to name a few. And certainly Timmy Smith, the one game wonder, with 230ish yards had nothing to do with the Skins winning that SB over the Broncos.

Who else you got? This could get interesting.

I'll start it out for fun....Couch, Klingler, Browning Nagle, Cade McNown, McGwire, Zolak, Eric Zeier, Boller, Brian Griese, Andre Ware, Marinovich, Scott Mitchell, Rob Johnson, Tommy Maddox, Tony Banks, Alexander Wright, Quincy Carter, Joey Harrington, David Carr.

And that's just a list I came up with in my head in 2 minutes without having to go back more than 20 years.

Your right on all accounts but who's to say that some of those QB's that didn't get it right away would have. But then again your the QB expert!

[TacklingDummy]

bet you can't count how many bashing JP references you've posted. :D

I like to call it criticism.

[justasportsfan]

I like to call it criticism.
haha! .

[realdealryan]

:rofl:

Yes, it's the Bills coaching staff and front office's fault that JP can't read defenses, can't feel the blitz, has poor ball security and poor mechanics.

Unreal.

F**king post of the offseason.

I was on board from day one, as soon as Bledsoe was canned and this kid was given the reins. Struggle or not, he got the same shot as Trent last year and flopped. I don't care if we had a team around him- Trent beat him with the same team. Did we forget the Jacksonville game? This guy has only hit a receiver in stride deep twice - both were in the Houston game two years ago to Lee Evans. Everything this guy throws deep is underthrown and/or lucky. I am as nervous as the pharmacist on Family Guy every time he takes a snap. You just don't know what will happen.

[Mr. Pink]

I get it. For every Farve there's a Rob Johnson.

You can't however tell us that JP falls on either category just yet if it's COMMON knowledge that he had nothing to work with other than Lee.

IF JP was UNDOUBTEDLY in a decent situation, I say stick a fork in him. Not even Trents biggest fans can say he was.

Ugh, it doesn't matter what situation you're in when you're not mentally tough or smart enough to play the position.

You can give Losman, Moss, TO, Ocho Cinco and Gates as his main offensive weapons and he'd still fail. Why?

He can't read defenses. He has poor mechanics which force his throws to go high or short. He can't feel blitzes. He doesn't go through his progressions and zeroes in on one guy every play ie. Evans. Add on the fact that he doesn't have good ball security, it's a recipe for disaster.

A disaster that has been fully realized in JPs tenure of Buffalo Bills starting QB.

[justasportsfan]

Ugh, it doesn't matter what situation you're in when you're not mentally tough or smart enough to play the position.

You can give Losman, Moss, TO, Ocho Cinco and Gates as his main offensive weapons and he'd still fail. Why?

He can't read defenses. He has poor mechanics which force his throws to go high or short. He can't feel blitzes. He doesn't go through his progressions and zeroes in on one guy every play ie. Evans. Add on the fact that he doesn't have good ball security, it's a recipe for disaster.

A disaster that has been fully realized in JPs tenure of Buffalo Bills starting QB.
OH puhlease! this is coming from someone who thinks Couch is a better option than JP. Give us a break.

[Philagape]

He can't read defenses. He has poor mechanics which force his throws to go high or short. He can't feel blitzes. He doesn't go through his progressions and zeroes in on one guy every play ie. Evans. Add on the fact that he doesn't have good ball security, it's a recipe for disaster.

The conversation will go nowhere if you talk about how the quarterback actually plays.

[TacklingDummy]

I keep reading from various posters "I am a big JP fan". Im not spamming, but what exactly are you a fan of? I get it he's a good guy. But what else what makes you a fan of his?

:feedback:

Thanks

Shlt starter.

MB only post in this thread. :shakeno:

[Mr. Pink]

Hilarious. Pure hate.

You're damn right it's hate.

I HATE when JP is on the field. I HATE that he completely sucks. I HATE that he can't throw a 10 yard out. I HATE that he can't read a defense. I HATE that he thinks Yoda is his supreme leader. I HATE that he, along with his agent, blame every shortcoming he has on someone else with zero accountability for himself.

Much like I HATED Paul McDonald, Todd Philcox, Mark Rypien, Eric Zeier, Doug Pederson, Ty Detmer, Spergon Wynn, Kelly Holcomb. Why? They all sucked when they QBd the team I rooted for.

Just like I would have HATED Vince Ferragamo, Bruce Mathison if I was a Bills fan in the early 80s. And now hate Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie, Drew Bledsoe. Why? Because they sucked as QBs of the Buffalo Bills.

I could care less what you do off the field, as long as you produce on it and keep yourself on the right side of the law.

It's simple...you produce or you don't. Unfortunately for us we haven't had a QB who could produce since 1995.

[Mr. Pink]

The conversation will go nowhere if you talk about how the quarterback actually plays.


I'm noticing this.

[justasportsfan]

You're damn right it's hate.

I HATE when JP is on the field. I HATE that he completely sucks. I HATE that he can't throw a 10 yard out. I HATE that he can't read a defense. I HATE that he thinks Yoda is his supreme leader. I HATE that he, along with his agent, blame every shortcoming he has on someone else with zero accountability for himself.

Much like I HATED Paul McDonald, Todd Philcox, Mark Rypien, Eric Zeier, Doug Pederson, Ty Detmer, Spergon Wynn, Kelly Holcomb. Why? They all sucked when they QBd the team I rooted for.

Just like I would have HATED Vince Ferragamo, Bruce Mathison if I was a Bills fan in the early 80s. And now hate Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie, Drew Bledsoe. Why? Because they sucked as QBs of the Buffalo Bills.

I could care less what you do off the field, as long as you produce on it and keep yourself on the right side of the law.

It's simple...you produce or you don't. Unfortunately for us we haven't had a QB who could produce since 1995.

Relying too much on your emotions will tend to kill your ability to think properly. Your Couch over JP proves it.

[justasportsfan]

I'm noticing this.
How a player plays is also based on how his coaches call the plays or the situation he's put in . Haters refuse to acknowledge this and just blame the player. Why not, it's more convenient. Even haters like you won't disagree that any qb here in the last 4 years wouldn't succeed here or played as well as they do with other teams. Not even Peyton.

[Mitchy moo]

Thsi thread is SPAM, please move it accordingly.


Serious Questions to all Bills fans, does JP even matter anymore??

[Mr. Pink]

OH puhlease! this is coming from someone who thinks Couch is a better option than JP. Give us a break.
Tim Couch lead the Browns to the playoffs...he didn't play against the Steelers because he broke his leg in week 17 vs the Falcons.
Games Completions Attempts % Yards AVG TDs LG INTS Rating
<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td colspan="2" align="left">Career</td> <td>62</td> <td>1025</td> <td>1714</td> <td>59.8</td> <td>11131</td> <td>6.5</td> <td>64</td> <td>79</td> <td>67</td> <td>75.1</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td> 37</td> <td>495</td> <td>837</td> <td>59.1</td> <td>5627</td> <td>6.7</td> <td> 31</td> <td>85</td> <td>29</td> <td>77.3</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Let's see Couch played on a team that's worse than JP ever played on. An expansion team vs a team that just missed the playoffs in their first seasons as starter. Couch just has 25 more games than JP. And obviously the Browns coaching staff trusted him more to throw the rock considering even if JP plays 25 more games in the NFL he'll come nowhere close on attempts, completions, yards, TDs.

And Couch lead the Browns to a playoff game in his 3rd season.

So which is the better option? It's a no brainer and they're BOTH busts.

[justasportsfan]

Not a JP fan ....just smart enough to know when to place blame...and when there is enough to go around. I dont think he was put in the best situation to excel....and I think far to many losses were put on his shoulders unfairly. Edwards to me is like Obama. Alot of hype with no substance. What I think he is is a promising young prospect. You people talk about man crushes...some of you with your Montana references have to ease up. He has thrown 1 td pass from the 3 yard line for cryng out loud. He injury prone label seems to have followed him from school to the pros as well. I would hate for us to spend all of this money on a team finally and he ends up on IR or he is not the Jesus type savior some of you make him out to be. I think they want somebody to hand the ball off to M Lynch 35 times a game and not to turn the ball over. His int's have to be somwhat alarming to any fan or FO person. If JP is gone before or after this year then so be it. In the right situation I think he will do well. If I am the Bills I better have a plan B for Trent Edwards...imho you are going to need one.
I agree 100%

PS_-If you're not a hater, you're fan. It's that simple to some fans around here.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Alll JP vs TE threads will from this point on be merged into one.

:miyagi:

[justasportsfan]

Tim Couch lead the Browns to the playoffs...he didn't play against the Steelers because he broke his leg in week 17 vs the Falcons.
Games Completions Attempts % Yards AVG TDs LG INTS Rating
<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td colspan="2" align="left">Career</td> <td>62</td> <td>1025</td> <td>1714</td> <td>59.8</td> <td>11131</td> <td>6.5</td> <td>64</td> <td>79</td> <td>67</td> <td>75.1</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td> 37</td> <td>495</td> <td>837</td> <td>59.1</td> <td>5627</td> <td>6.7</td> <td> 31</td> <td>85</td> <td>29</td> <td>77.3</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Let's see Couch played on a team that's worse than JP ever played on. An expansion team vs a team that just missed the playoffs in their first seasons as starter. Couch just has 25 more games than JP. And obviously the Browns coaching staff trusted him more to throw the rock considering even if JP plays 25 more games in the NFL he'll come nowhere close on attempts, completions, yards, TDs.

And Couch lead the Browns to a playoff game in his 3rd season.

So which is the better option? It's a no brainer and they're BOTH busts.

ROFL. I'm sure you left out a few facts.

how about, he almost threw for 3000 yards and 19 TD's and still made playoffs with a 9-7 record. BIg deal JP's done that but didn't make playoffs. Not his fault he had a crappy D . Your facts (biased to make Couch look better than JP) on Couch doesn't paint an entire picture.


I can go on dissecting the circumstances both qb's were in but I don't have to. Couch over JP is plain stupid.

What's next Rob Johnson has a probowl ring therefore he's better than Flutie?

[TacklingDummy]

What's next Rob Johnson has a probowl ring therefore he's better than Flutie?


Actually Rob Johnson has a Super Bowl ring, Flutie is the one who just made the Pro-Bowl.

[Mr. Pink]

ROFL. I'm sure you left out a few facts.

how about, he almost threw for 3000 yards and 19 TD's and still made playoffs with a 9-7 record. BIg deal JP's done that but didn't make playoffs. Not his fault he had a crappy D . Your facts (biased to make Couch look better than JP) on Couch doesn't paint an entire picture.


I can go on dissecting the circumstances both qb's were in but I don't have to. Couch over JP is plain stupid.

What's next Rob Johnson has a probowl ring therefore he's better than Flutie?

You're right it doesn't paint an entire picture....

Like the fact Couch NEVER had a good starting RB. You do realize that in Couch's rookie year the starting RB was Terry Kirby right? Then Travis Prentice? Then bust William Green the year they went to playoffs?

The fact that Couch was sacked like 70 times a year because the O-line was a sieve?

The fact that Kevin Johnson was his number 1 WR?

The fact Couch threw more TDs than INTs in his rookie season even with the biggest collection of stiffs as teammates?

The fact the Browns had about 10 months to put together a team for his rookie campaign?

Every circumstance that you want to say JP suffered from, Couch's circumstances were 10 times worse.

And when did JP lead the Bills to a 9-7 record? I musta missed that one or anywhere near the playoffs for that matter.

[justasportsfan]

You're right it doesn't paint an entire picture....

Like the fact Couch NEVER had a good starting RB. You do realize that in Couch's rookie year the starting RB was Terry Kirby right? Then Travis Prentice? Then bust William Green the year they went to playoffs?

The fact that Couch was sacked like 70 times a year because the O-line was a sieve?

The fact that Kevin Johnson was his number 1 WR?

The fact Couch threw more TDs than INTs in his rookie season even with the biggest collection of stiffs as teammates?

The fact the Browns had about 10 months to put together a team for his rookie campaign?

Every circumstance that you want to say JP suffered from, Couch's circumstances were 10 times worse.

And when did JP lead the Bills to a 9-7 record? I musta missed that one or anywhere near the playoffs for that matter.


I don't care what Couch did somewhere else. YOu can't tell me that he wouldbe a better option than JP off the bench. Lee Evans, Reed , the OL would disagree with you.

If you think Couch off the bench would make this team better, then I seriously think you are not a bills fan or your hate for JP is bigger than your love for the bills. Couch would NOT make the qb position better.

[mikemac2001]

Your all a bunch of *****es

[justasportsfan]

Your all a bunch of *****es
You're

[mikemac2001]

You're


Douche!

[justasportsfan]

Douche!
gracias.

[gr8slayer]

Apparently you don't focus or pay attention to my posts.

At this point, I'd rather lure Jeff George out of retirement to start for the Bills than JP. Give me any of the other starting QBs on any NFL team and I'd rather have them as the starter here than JP.

We've seen what JP can do. And that's absolutely nothing that is gonna lead us to the next level. It's time to cut the cord and move on from a bad decision.

What can Trent do? Who knows? But it sure as hell can't be as bad as what we got the last 4 years when Losman was under center.
You just contradicted yourself, I'll save this thread and bring it back up again next year waiting for your excuses.

[Mr. Pink]

You just contradicted yourself, I'll save this thread and bring it back up again next year waiting for your excuses.

I did where?

My stance is simple...ANYONE is a better option at this point.

Hell, I'd rather you start at QB for the Bills than watch another greek tragedy orchestrated by JP Losman. We've already wasted 4 years on this bum.

[gr8slayer]

I did where?

My stance is simple...ANYONE is a better option at this point.

Hell, I'd rather you start at QB for the Bills than watch another greek tragedy orchestrated by JP Losman. We've already wasted 4 years on this bum.
So you admit that we don't know what Edwards is made of and then in the same post state that he is a better option that Losman. If you still can't catch it then I give up.....

BTW, if you are basing this just on play last year then I don't know what to tell you. What I saw was two below average QB's, neither of which I would take on my team if I had the choice.

[justasportsfan]

So you admit that we don't know what Edwards is made of and then in the same post state that he is a better option that Losman. If you still can't catch it then I give up.....


thinking with your emotions screwes up the head. Ask Darth Vader.

[Mr. Pink]

So you admit that we don't know what Edwards is made of and then in the same post state that he is a better option that Losman. If you still can't catch it then I give up.....

BTW, if you are basing this just on play last year then I don't know what to tell you. What I saw was two below average QB's, neither of which I would take on my team if I had the choice.

What this is based off of is the fact that JP Losman is now a 4 year NFL vet that is no better when he took hsi last snap as a Buffalo Bill than he did in his first snap. Zero change in his mental ability to grasp the game.

Edwards is an unknown, however, he still has the "chance" to get better. He already has a stronger mental grasp of the game he just doesn't have all the physical tools that JP had.

You, with absolutely zero NFL experience, no coordination, potato chip bag in hand on your sofa with the lap top are a better option right now...Why? Because you would have potential to get better. Some thing that JP no longer has. We've seen his ceiling, and it's about a foot off the ground.

Going with someone that has a chance to improve is infinitely better than going with someone who's ceiling has been reached.

[gr8slayer]

What this is based off of is the fact that JP Losman is now a 4 year NFL vet that is no better when he took hsi last snap as a Buffalo Bill than he did in his first snap. Zero change in his mental ability to grasp the game.

Edwards is an unknown, however, he still has the "chance" to get better. He already has a stronger mental grasp of the game he just doesn't have all the physical tools that JP had.

You, with absolutely zero NFL experience, no coordination, potato chip bag in hand on your sofa with the lap top are a better option right now...Why? Because you would have potential to get better. Some thing that JP no longer has. We've seen his ceiling, and it's about a foot off the ground.

Going with someone that has a chance to improve is infinitely better than going with someone who's ceiling has been reached.
Are you sure about that?

[Mr. Pink]

thinking with your emotions screwes up the head. Ask Darth Vader.

You without a doubt are either a. the least knowledgable fan ever or b. the biggest pot stirrer I've ever dealt with or c. a little of both.

[justasportsfan]

You without a doubt are either a. the least knowledgable fan ever or b. the biggest pot stirrer I've ever dealt with or c. a little of both.

d. none of the above. ;)

[gr8slayer]

You without a doubt are either a. the least knowledgable fan ever or b. the biggest pot stirrer I've ever dealt with or c. a little of both.
There are those out there that would say the same about you and your stance on the issue at hand.

[Mr. Pink]

Are you sure about that?

No, not entirely. But what I am sure about as many other Bills fans are is that JP is garbage. And I would rather turn to any alternative in the hopes that that alternative is better.

You're the biggest person on here with the stances of, don't accept mediocrity, I want to win, etc. etc. etc. JP on his best day is mediocre and that's only twice a season. Yet you'd rather him be in there than someone else?

I don't get it.

[justasportsfan]

I don't get it.
I agree. :D

[Mr. Pink]

There are those out there that would say the same about you and your stance on the issue at hand.


Yes my stance of I want to win ballgames, make the playoffs, maybe win a championship. All 3 of those things JP isn't hasn't and won't provide.

[gr8slayer]

No, not entirely. But what I am sure about as many other Bills fans are is that JP is garbage. And I would rather turn to any alternative in the hopes that that alternative is better.

You're the biggest person on here with the stances of, don't accept mediocrity, I want to win, etc. etc. etc. JP on his best day is mediocre and that's only twice a season. Yet you'd rather him be in there than someone else?

I don't get it.
Where did I say that I want Losman as the QB of the Bills? I've state several times that I would rather draft a QB this year than have either of them QB the Bills this year or any other year for that matter. When I watch film do I see a QB with more potential than Edwards? Sure, do I think the situation in Buffalo is one in which Losman would see success? No....

[ddaryl]

It's time to put Trent and JP in a cage and let them fight till the death for the entertainment of the fans...


CAGE MATCH !!!!!... that would fill the ralph and bring in extra revenue

[justasportsfan]

It's time to put Trent and JP in a cage and let them fight till the death for the entertainment of the fans...


CAGE MATCH !!!!!... that would fill the ralph and bring in extra revenue

My money is on JP.

[gr8slayer]

Yes my stance of I want to win ballgames, make the playoffs, maybe win a championship. All 3 of those things JP isn't hasn't and won't provide.And again, you yourself have said twice now that what Edwards offers is a question mark, yet you're confident that he can do the above mentioned things better somehow?

[gr8slayer]

It's time to put Trent and JP in a cage and let them fight till the death for the entertainment of the fans...


CAGE MATCH !!!!!... that would fill the ralph and bring in extra revenue
I agree.

There is nothing more to talk about, Losman is no longer the QB of the Bills, Edwards is. So why do people feel the need to constantly bring it up? Lately I've been finding that more people who are Pro-Edwards seem to be bringing it up, I'm starting to wonder if they are setting it up so in case Edwards craps himself again they can say; "well, he's still better than Losman."

[justasportsfan]

Where did I say that I want Losman as the QB of the Bills?
you didn't . But if you don't hate, you're a fan.

[Mr. Pink]

And again, you yourself have said twice now that what Edwards offers is a question mark, yet you're confident that he can do the above mentioned things better somehow?


Yes, because last year he showed he could sustain drives better than JP. He showed he could run the offense. He showed he could read defenses. He showed he can make the 10 yard out passes.

Yes, we still settled for field goals because we lacked a true redzone target but hopefully between the rest of FA and the Draft we make some moves to fix that.

He isn't the one trick chuck it up to Evans and pray pony.

Does that mean he'll succeed in the NFL? Absolutely not.

Does it mean he has a better chance at succeeding than the bum? Absolutely.

[justasportsfan]

Yes, because last year he showed he could sustain drives better than JP. He showed he could run the offense. He showed he could read defenses. He showed he can make the 10 yard out passes. . he showed he couldn't score either except against the fins.


Yes, we still settled for field goals because we lacked a true redzone target but hopefully between the rest of FA and the Draft we make some moves to fix that..
but that excuse won't fly when Jp is the QB?

He isn't the one trick chuck it up to Evans and pray pony.. chuck it up scored more points than dinking and dunking

[gr8slayer]

Yes, because last year he showed he could sustain drives better than JP. He showed he could run the offense. He showed he could read defenses. He showed he can make the 10 yard out passes.
I actually started a thread about his ability to handle the clock and sustain drives better than Losman sometime around his forth start, guess you missed that one huh? You should read my posts a little more closely before you start labeling me :up:


Yes, we still settled for field goals because we lacked a true redzone target but hopefully between the rest of FA and the Draft we make some moves to fix that.This is an excuse that I personally won't go for. There is never an excuse to settle for as many FG's as we did last season. If he is to become a great QB he will need to make everyone else around him better and work with what he has. I do find it odd that you openly admit that we don't have what it takes to help Edwards succeed, yet you don't realize that Losman has been trying to succeed with the same level of mediocre players....


He isn't the one trick chuck it up to Evans and pray pony.He's going to need to establish himself as someone who has the ability to do so at times, he failed to do so this season.


Does that mean he'll succeed in the NFL? Absolutely not.I'd argue that the cards are stacked against him succeeding at this point. I'll re-up my opinion after the draft but it could get worse for him.


Does it mean he has a better chance at succeeding than the bum? Absolutely.Again, if you aren't sure what Edwards offers how are you so sure that he's any better than Losman. You're a smart human-being, please tell me you can identify the contradiction....

[Mr. Pink]

he showed he couldn't score either except against the fins.
but that excuse won't fly when Jp is the QB?

chuck it up scored more points than dinking and dunking


The Bills scored 100 points in games that JP saw significant action.

They scored 152 points in games that Trent saw significant action.

I'm giving the first NE game to Trent and Jets "lemme throw into double coverage and get lucky" game to JP.

Average

Under Trent they scored 16.7 points per game.
Losman? 14.3 ppg

Chuck it up scored more points? I got figures to say you're wrong.

[justasportsfan]

The Bills scored 100 points in games that JP saw significant action.

They scored 152 points in games that Trent saw significant action.

I'm giving the first NE game to Trent and Jets "lemme throw into double coverage and get lucky" game to JP.

Average

Under Trent they scored 16.7 points per game.
Losman? 14.3 ppg

Chuck it up scored more points? I got figures to say you're wrong.
you mean Lindell scored more points when Trent was the qb?

See jets game where both qb played.

Another case of you forgetting other facts is that JP played better teams. Care to disagree?

[gr8slayer]

The Bills scored 100 points in games that JP saw significant action.

They scored 152 points in games that Trent saw significant action.

I'm giving the first NE game to Trent and Jets "lemme throw into double coverage and get lucky" game to JP.

Average

Under Trent they scored 16.7 points per game.
Losman? 14.3 ppg

Chuck it up scored more points? I got figures to say you're wrong.
Actually, if you go back and watch the film we weren't "chucking it up" as much as you might think with either QB. We actually rarely had any play-action involved in our play calling either, something that the year before helped Losman buy more time to find the deep ball. I don't think you are taking coaching (more specifically play calling) into effect enough. It hurt both of them tremendously and we didn't call our plays to the strengths of either.

[Mr. Pink]

I actually started a thread about his ability to handle the clock and sustain drives better than Losman sometime around his forth start, guess you missed that one huh? You should read my posts a little more closely before you start labeling me :up:

Why bother you obviously don't read mine! :up:

[/quote] This is an excuse that I personally won't go for. There is never an excuse to settle for as many FG's as we did last season. If he is to become a great QB he will need to make everyone else around him better and work with what he has. I do find it odd that you openly admit that we don't have what it takes to help Edwards succeed, yet you don't realize that Losman has been trying to succeed with the same level of mediocre players....[/quote]

I'm sure you missed when Edwards was getting planted on his back from a backside blitz he didn't see? I'm sure you missed him throwing the ball 10 feet over guy's head consistently like JP in Jacksonville. You know why you missed those, because it wasn't the norm when Trent was in. He's a smarter player, pure and simple.

Personally, I'll take the guy with the mental wherewithall to play the game over the guy with all the physical tools in the world but lacking a football mindset.

JPs main problems are because of JP himself. Throwing balls high, throwing balls in the dirt, fumbling when running into a ref, not securing the ball on a QB sneak and fumbling, not knowing a backside blitz is coming - ie the play in NE before Wilfork took him out, having poor mechanics, not looking off defenders, throwing into double coverage constantly, etc.

[/quote] He's going to need to establish himself as someone who has the ability to do so at times, he failed to do so this season.[/quote]

The deep pass to set up the GWFG against the Skins doesn't count? Or the deep ball to Evans against Miami, I believe. Ok.

[/quote] I'd argue that the cards are stacked against him succeeding at this point. I'll re-up my opinion after the draft but it could get worse for him.[/quote]

And why are those cards stacked against him? Chad Pennington had a decent career. Bernie Kosar didn't have a strong arm but had the mental ability and succeeded. You don't need a rocket arm and be fleet of foot to succeed at this level, you need a brain. Just ask Jeff George or Michael Vick.

[/quote] Again, if you aren't sure what Edwards offers how are you so sure that he's any better than Losman. You're a smart human-being, please tell me you can identify the contradiction....[/quote]

Again, because ANYTHING is better at this point. The concept of an unknown is always greater than that of a failure.

[Mr. Pink]

you mean Lindell scored more points when Trent was the qb?

See jets game where both qb played.

Another case of you forgetting other facts is that JP played better teams. Care to disagree?

Yes, see the Jets game. Trent lead 2 scoring drives, JP lead 1. I can play this game of being a dolt too!

JP played Denver, Pitt, NE, NY, Cincy, Miami, Jags. 3 playoff teams.

Trent played NE, NYJ, Dal, Balt, Wash, Miami, Cleveland, NYG, Philly. 4 playoff teams. 1 on the outside via tiebreaker.

JP played better teams? Honestly? Do you really believe all the stuff you type?

[gr8slayer]

I'm sure you missed when Edwards was getting planted on his back from a backside blitz he didn't see? I'm sure you missed him throwing the ball 10 feet over guy's head consistently like JP in Jacksonville. You know why you missed those, because it wasn't the norm when Trent was in. He's a smarter player, pure and simple.

Personally, I'll take the guy with the mental wherewithall to play the game over the guy with all the physical tools in the world but lacking a football mindset.

JPs main problems are because of JP himself. Throwing balls high, throwing balls in the dirt, fumbling when running into a ref, not securing the ball on a QB sneak and fumbling, not knowing a backside blitz is coming - ie the play in NE before Wilfork took him out, having poor mechanics, not looking off defenders, throwing into double coverage constantly, etc.Funny, I've talked to coaches in the league that think Losman just needs some better coaching and help with his mechanics, none of them have mentioned that he has a problem mentally.


The deep pass to set up the GWFG against the Skins doesn't count? Or the deep ball to Evans against Miami, I believe. Ok.
That to you was establishing a deep threat? I feel for you....


And why are those cards stacked against him? Chad Pennington had a decent career. Bernie Kosar didn't have a strong arm but had the mental ability and succeeded. You don't need a rocket arm and be fleet of foot to succeed at this level, you need a brain. Just ask Jeff George or Michael Vick.
Your the one who keeps bringing up the arm strength issue, I have yet to mention it. I was referring to the talent around him when I said that the cards were stacked against him.



Again, because ANYTHING is better at this point. The concept of an unknown is always greater than that of a failure.Your logic is flawed.

BTW, why do you insist on making this a Losman vs. Edwards thing? Are you worried that if you start breaking Edwards down you'll find something you don't like?

[gr8slayer]

Yes, see the Jets game. Trent lead 2 scoring drives, JP lead 1. I can play this game of being a dolt too!

JP played Denver, Pitt, NE, NY, Cincy, Miami, Jags. 3 playoff teams.

Trent played NE, NYJ, Dal, Balt, Wash, Miami, Cleveland, NYG, Philly. 4 playoff teams. 1 on the outside via tiebreaker.

JP played better teams? Honestly? Do you really believe all the stuff you type?
Sadly, of the above mentioned games Edwards only showed up for one.

[Mr. Pink]

I've never said Edwards is good, great or indifferent.

Time will tell on the above, much like time has told that JP blows.

What I have said is that he represents something called hope. A feeling that we might win. Not a feeling of oh no, what is this dumbass gonna do to eph us today?

[justasportsfan]

Yes, see the Jets game. Trent lead 2 scoring drives, JP lead 1. I can play this game of being a dolt too!

JP played Denver, Pitt, NE, NY, Cincy, Miami, Jags. 3 playoff teams.

Trent played NE, NYJ, Dal, Balt, Wash, Miami, Cleveland, NYG, Philly. 4 playoff teams. 1 on the outside via tiebreaker.

JP played better teams? Honestly? Do you really believe all the stuff you type?


huh? Trent drove the O to 1 fg in 3 qtrs. JP 1 fg and 1 TD . Do you believe the crap you type :snicker:

He scored a TD via the chuck it to Evans. How ironic.

[Mr. Pink]

Sadly, of the above mentioned games Edwards only showed up for one.

And JP showed up for one of his above mentioned games too...plus one throw vs the Jets. Which sorry if I can't give him credit for because it's Lee Evans that made the play.

[gr8slayer]

I've never said Edwards is good, great or indifferent.

Time will tell on the above, much like time has told that JP blows.

What I have said is that he represents something called hope. A feeling that we might win. Not a feeling of oh no, what is this dumbass gonna do to eph us today?
He might give you that feeling but I fail to feel it so far. I expect much more from my QB than what Edwards or Derick Anderson have put on the field.

[mybills]

Hopefully Trent is handsome enough to play well.
There's no hope of that, he'll have to play ugly.

[justasportsfan]

I've never said Edwards is good, great or indifferent.

Time will tell on the above, much like time has told that JP blows.

What I have said is that he represents something called hope. A feeling that we might win. Not a feeling of oh no, what is this dumbass gonna do to eph us today?
you haven't denied that no QB would've thrived here the last 4 years. Thats why I am not sold that JP just flat out sucks.

[gr8slayer]

And JP showed up for one of his above mentioned games too...plus one throw vs the Jets. Which sorry if I can't give him credit for because it's Lee Evans that made the play.
Again, why do you have to make this a Losman vs. Edwards thread? I'm done talking about Losman, it didn't work out in Buffalo, it doesn't work out in a lot of places for a lot of QB's. It's just part of the game.

[Mr. Pink]

huh? Trent drove the O to 1 fg in 3 qtrs. JP 1 fg and 1 TD . Do you believe the crap you type :snicker:

He scored a TD via the chuck it to Evans. How ironic.

Hey you caught that, I'm impressed...good to see that you are paying some attention to what's being typed! :snicker:

[gr8slayer]

you haven't denied that no QB would've thrived here the last 4 years. Thats why I am not sold that JP just flat out sucks.
No QB would have thrived in this offense over the past four years and unless we have something up our sleeves no QB will thrive here for another four years. Things need to change and quick.

[justasportsfan]

Hey you caught that, I'm impressed...good to see that you are paying some attention to what's being typed! :snicker:


Sheez, if I was able to remember that you think Couch would be a better option, you think I wouldn't have caught you posting out of your ass... again? :jk:

[justasportsfan]

No QB would have thrived in this offense over the past four years and unless we have something up our sleeves no QB will thrive here for another four years. Things need to change and quick.

Yet the blame falls on JP's shoulder alone .

[Mr. Pink]

Ok so you don't like Losman and you like Edwards, good for you. What is your excuse going to be next year when/if he craps his pants.

Hey gr8, you started this into a Losman vs Edwards thread.

I was saying that Losman is garbage and I'll be glad when hes gone.

[Mr. Pink]

Yet the blame falls on JP's shoulder alone .

I've already stated what problem lay on JPs shoulders...and there's many more of them then the vanilla playcalling as an excuse.

All of JPs career here it's been one excuse after another for why he hasn't succeeded. Even JP himself doesn't acknowledge his own limitations.

I'm sick and tired of reading bs crap to justify his inability to play the position of QB at the NFL.

[gr8slayer]

Hey gr8, you started this into a Losman vs Edwards thread.

I was saying that Losman is garbage and I'll be glad when hes gone.
I stated that you don't like Losman which you have made clear for the better part of the past two seasons now.

I don't think either of them will succeed and I won't blame either of them; I don't think they have been/were given the tools that a young QB needs to succeed. You clearly don't agree with my stance on the situation our team has put both of them in so I'd really like to know what your excuse will be when/if Edwards craps his pants next year since the tools around him are adequate in your mind.

Your wish has already been granted, Losman is as good as gone and he should be.

[Mr. Pink]

I stated that you don't like Losman which you have made clear for the better part of the past two seasons now.

I don't think either of them will succeed and I won't blame either of them; I don't think they have been/were given the tools that a young QB needs to succeed. You clearly don't agree with my stance on the situation our team has put both of them in so I'd really like to know what your excuse will be when/if Edwards craps his pants next year since the tools around him are adequate in your mind.

Your wish has already been granted, Losman is as good as gone and he should be.

And if Edwards craps the bed, then he should be replaced as well. However he should be given the chance much like JP had to prove he can or can't do it.

[justasportsfan]

I've already stated what problem lay on JPs shoulders...and there's many more of them then the vanilla playcalling as an excuse.

All of JPs career here it's been one excuse after another for why he hasn't succeeded. Even JP himself doesn't acknowledge his own limitations.

I'm sick and tired of reading bs crap to justify his inability to play the position of QB at the NFL.People would be making the same excuses for Trent if we drafted him when we drafted JP.

Trent would be dead if we drafted him insread of JP back then.

There is no better plan B than JP coming in case Trent gets hurt. Any true bills fan would want whats best for the team.

[gr8slayer]

And if Edwards craps the bed, then he should be replaced as well. However he should be given the chance much like JP had to prove he can or can't do it.
Do you think that if Edwards starts the first three games of the season crapping the bed that he should be replaced by who ever his backup is?

[AndreReed83]

I could only imagine the kind of backing JP would get if he was actually good.

[Mr. Pink]

Do you think that if Edwards starts the first three games of the season crapping the bed that he should be replaced by who ever his backup is?

No, give him the season to prove what he can do. Hopefully he got most of the growing pains out of the way last year. It's a little concerning that he wilted the last 3 weeks of the year but 2 of those games even the best QBs would have struggled - Cleveland and NY.

If at the end of the year he looks terrible than offseason priority number 1 is bringing in a proven veteran QB who can get the job done.

[justasportsfan]

No, give him the season to prove what he can do. Hopefully he got most of the growing pains out of the way last year. It's a little concerning that he wilted the last 3 weeks of the year but 2 of those games even the best QBs would have struggled - Cleveland and NY.

If at the end of the year he looks terrible than offseason priority number 1 is bringing in a proven veteran QB who can get the job done.


this is why I say keep JP for any offers less than a 3rd. Just in case TE craps.

[gr8slayer]

No, give him the season to prove what he can do. Hopefully he got most of the growing pains out of the way last year. It's a little concerning that he wilted the last 3 weeks of the year but 2 of those games even the best QBs would have struggled - Cleveland and NY.

If at the end of the year he looks terrible than offseason priority number 1 is bringing in a proven veteran QB who can get the job done.
Ok, then you aren't advocating for Edwards to get the same shot Losman got. Losmans first year he was given the starting role he was pulled after three games due to poor play. I think you're forgetting, or choosing to forget how badly his situation was handled by Mularkey and company.

[gr8slayer]

this is why I say keep JP for any offers less than a 3rd. Just in case TE craps.
No, Losman honestly needs to go.

[Mr. Pink]

Ok, then you aren't advocating for Edwards to get the same shot Losman got. Losmans first year he was given the starting roll he was pulled after three games due to poor play.

I'm giving Edwards even less games overall than JP had....less years in the league to turn it around. JP got 37 games over 4 years...I'm only willing to give Trent 26 games over 2 years.

Sure it's unfair, but that's what happens when you haven't won anything significant in a decade.

[gr8slayer]

I'm giving Edwards even less games overall than JP had....less years in the league to turn it around. JP got 37 games over 4 years...I'm only willing to give Trent 26 games over 2 years.

Sure it's unfair, but that's what happens when you haven't won anything significant in a decade.
I disagree with you. Edwards is going into his second year, he should get 3 years before he gets labeled just like every other rookie does. He should not have to be looking over his shoulder for Kelly Holcomb every five seconds like Losman had to his first year starting. By the way, although Losman has been in the league for four years you have to take into consideration that he was only healthy enough to play for three of them. I know he played against the Browns his rookie year but he himself admitted afterwards that his knee was still an issue and thus was not healthy enough to play.

Unless Edwards comes out this year and shows that he has regressed or not progressed what so ever (say by the mid way point) I see no reason to pull him either. When you pull a young QB the way Mularkey did Losman you really break him down mentally. Thankfully I believe that Jauron is smarter than that and knows that he will ruin Edwards if he follows in Mularkey's footsteps.

[gr8slayer]

I've got to go, see you all later......

[Mr. Pink]

I disagree with you. Edwards is going into his second year, he should get 3 years before he gets labeled just like every other rookie does. He should not have to be looking over his shoulder for Kelly Holcomb every five seconds like Losman had to his first year starting. By the way, although Losman has been in the league for four years you have to take into consideration that he was only healthy enough to play for three of them. I know he played against the Browns his rookie year but he himself admitted afterwards that his knee was still an issue and thus was not healthy enough to play.

Unless Edwards comes out this year and shows that he has regressed or not progressed what so ever (say by the mid way point) I see no reason to pull him either. When you pull a young QB the way Mularkey did Losman you really break him down mentally. Thankfully I believe that Jauron is smarter than that and knows that he will ruin Edwards if he follows in Mularkey's footsteps.

While I do agree with all of that there still is a slight difference...More of an investment was put in JP than Trent. We mortgaged off a future pick to get him, paid him as a Rd1 guy. He gets a little more leeway in that regard, IMO.

Now, Trent on the other hand is a third round guy with less of an investment, he should have a shorter leash and timeframe to succeed.

Hence why I personally would be going a different direction in 09 if he falters.

And seeing the past two attempts in this regard was the draft, I'd go to FA or Trade to bring the next guy in. A proven guy with a track record. And if that costs me a 1st round pick via trade to do it? So be it. Seeing the draft hasn't worked for us at the QB position since Kelly. Notice I said proven guy with track record that means not a Rob Johnson thing where he's lights out for a game and we bank his entire career here on that one game. Or Matt Schaub last year for another example.

[mikemac2001]

While I do agree with all of that there still is a slight difference...More of an investment was put in JP than Trent. We mortgaged off a future pick to get him, paid him as a Rd1 guy. He gets a little more leeway in that regard, IMO.

Now, Trent on the other hand is a third round guy with less of an investment, he should have a shorter leash and timeframe to succeed.

Hence why I personally would be going a different direction in 09 if he falters.

And seeing the past two attempts in this regard was the draft, I'd go to FA or Trade to bring the next guy in. A proven guy with a track record. And if that costs me a 1st round pick via trade to do it? So be it. Seeing the draft hasn't worked for us at the QB position since Kelly. Notice I said proven guy with track record that means not a Rob Johnson thing where he's lights out for a game and we bank his entire career here on that one game. Or Matt Schaub last year for another example.

I do agree with your post but i think the reason trent was graded so low was because he was always hurt and he didnt have any talent around him in stanford

say he played at a better school i bet you he would have had a higher grade on him just because he would have had a chance to make more plays in college

[askabry]

I'll toss my two cents in here ... I like players to start off by doing simple things well. A running back shouldn't fumble, and nearly always create positive yardage. WR should catch the ball, and presumably create first downs. An OL should not be called for holding, nor give up sacks.

These seem like simple things, but look at how Jerry Porter got sick money. RBs that fail to get positive yardage consistently get picked. The Jets just gave up $11MM guarenteed to an OL part of whose career can be called disappointing..

A QB should do things in this order:
*complete 65-70% of his intermediate (15 yard) passes
*complete 85-95% of his short passes
*avoid negative plays (interceptions ... see pts 1&2 ...fumbles ... and sacks)

After all this, if he get the ball 70 yards downfield or run with the ball, that's nice. So would pocket presence, but then you're talking about Brady/McNabb/etc.

JP Losman had difficulty with nearly all of the first four points, and just like the guy he replaced, we became enamored with his ability to put the ball downfield. The 80 yard touchdown pass occurs 5 times a year. Everything else happens 25-30 times a game. You know what? A certain team is building their whole franchise around a guy that's never done either of the first two things EVER IN HIS CAREER.

Let the guy go. If this team needs to win with its #2 QB ... well, in any season you can always pick up a Brian Griese-type player off the waiver wire. If we can get value for him, good riddence.