It's Possible-Patriots could lose titles

[YardRat]

Stumbled across this...

http://members.tripod.com/refereestats/rules.htm

UNFAIR ACTS

Commissioner's authority
The Commissioner has sole authority to investigate and to take appropriate disciplinary or corrective measures if any club action, nonparticipant interference, or emergency occurs in an NFL game which he deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game.

No club protests
The authority and measures provided for in this section (UNFAIR ACTS) do not constitute a protest machinery for NFL clubs to dispute the result of a game. The Commissioner will conduct an investigation under this section only to review an act or occurrence that he deems so unfair that the result of the game in question may be inequitable to one of the participating teams. The Commissioner will not apply his authority under this section when a club registers a complaint concerning judgmental errors or routine errors of omission by game officials. Games involving such complaints will continue to stand as completed.


Penalties for unfair acts
The Commissioner's powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game's result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.
Removing team from field No player, coach, or other person affiliated with a club may remove that club's team from the field during the playing of any game, including preseason, except at the direction of the referee. Any club violating this rule will be subject to disciplinary action by the Commissioner, including possible game forfeiture and sole liability for financial losses suffered by the opposing club and any other affected member clubs of the League.

[Throne Logic]

No. That is a Pandora's Box that the NFL is smart enough not to open.

Besides, when will people get it through their heads that the Patriots gained nothing advantageous over other teams by filming from the field what other teams film from the press box. They broke a rule, they were fined heavily.

This is pretty much a control issue dealing with semantics. Godell told the class to stay on their side of the line. BB, being the egotistical jerk that he is, stuck a toe across the line. Godell stomped on that toe.

BB has a history of pushing the envelope. Every season he’s come up with some twist on an obscure rule that gives the Pats some sort of advantage somewhere along the line. This season, he pushed that envelope a bit too far and got burned.

You don’t start revising history because of a naughty child. You just keep a closer eye on the child.

[ddaryl]

in a perfect world....

[PromoTheRobot]

No. That is a Pandora's Box that the NFL is smart enough not to open.

Besides, when will people get it through their heads that the Patriots gained nothing advantageous over other teams by filming from the field what other teams film from the press box. They broke a rule, they were fined heavily.

This is pretty much a control issue dealing with semantics. Godell told the class to stay on their side of the line. BB, being the egotistical jerk that he is, stuck a toe across the line. Godell stomped on that toe.

BB has a history of pushing the envelope. Every season he’s come up with some twist on an obscure rule that gives the Pats some sort of advantage somewhere along the line. This season, he pushed that envelope a bit too far and got burned.

You don’t start revising history because of a naughty child. You just keep a closer eye on the child.
The Pats gained no advantage...(right) That's why it's total lockdown mode in Foxboro right now. The stink from Gillette Stadium would be smelled in L.A. if the lid ever really came off this mess.

PTR

[JJamezz]

the Patriots gained nothing advantageous

:rofl:

[zone]

If they gained nothing then they wouldn't have wasted time and money doing it!

[raphael120]

the Patriots gained nothing advantageous over other teams by filming from the field what other teams film from the press box.


I will say this to every naive person that brings up this falsity:

IF THEY GAIN NOTHING ADVANTAGEOUS THEN WHY WOULD THEY DO IT!??!

A football team would NEVER waste their time on something if it didn't help them on gameday. Come on, people.

[AndreReed83]

Besides, when will people get it through their heads that the Patriots gained nothing advantageous over other teams by filming from the field what other teams film from the press box. They broke a rule, they were fined heavily.



Besides, everyone knows the real reason the Pats won was because of Teddy Bruschi's abilities to stretch, turn invisble, sport rock hard skin, and "flame on." Long live Hit Tracker!

[Buffatexas]

Would our resident historian please dig up of some Bills SB tapes and see if we can catch the Giants cheating so we can have Norwood take one more shot?

[BSXIII]

I understand the argument that if it didn't help they wouldn't do it, but at the same time I still think the whole thing is overblown. After 7 years, I think everybody knew they were doing it. A couple NFC North teams said last year they were warned before hand and sought the guy out during the games.

Also, I think it's safe to assume the Bills knew this was going on for a long time. Bledsoe and Milloy were both captains on the 2001 team. If any players knew about this, how would they not know, and why wouldn't they share this with the coaching staff? Hell, there was even a memo sent out before last season specifically emphasizing this rule.

Yes the Patriots blatantly broke a rule, and were punished severely, but the reason there isn't a huge backlash from the rest of the league is not because of some conspiracy, but rather because it was not a big surprise.

[Throne Logic]

I will say this to every naive person that brings up this falsity:

IF THEY GAIN NOTHING ADVANTAGEOUS THEN WHY WOULD THEY DO IT!??!

THEY ALL DO IT!


Calling me niave. Pull your head from your Patriot-hating rear end. They all do it.

The reason they do it is because EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT, TOO! By definition, if they didn't do it, they would be at a disadvantage. Furthermore, if the rule wasn't being inforced in previous seasons, than any team that wasn't utilizing this "advantage" was either morally bound to be completely honest (which very few multi-millionaire business men can claim), masochistic, or just plain dumb. If you're in a high profile class in a major university, would you refuse to look at the final exam answer sheet that you know everyone else in the class has access to see. Mind you, this test is graded on a curve where 10% of the class will fail. I would love to think that I have the integrity to look away, but when your career and livelihood are depending on passing that class, I'm not so sure. This is why the Pats were only just one of the teams taping.

With multiple teams taping, then please explain to me who has the advantage?

As to why Foxboro is in "lockdown". Well, that's pretty easy. The entire NFL is in lockdown regarding this issue. Don't you find it interesting that not a single NFL person has stepped up to the plate and exclaimed, "Burn the witches!". Heck, the little committee press conference was a vertual love fest with freekin' Poulian as the Grand Poobah. Where did the Man-Genius go after he blew the proverbial whistle?

Here's the underlying problem. I'm going to explain to you why no one in the NFL is going to come out against the Pats. To do so would be to risk the integrity of the entire league. How would it look if the NFL or any of it's authoritative figures took a major stand on the platform of "everyone is doing it, so what's the big deal?" It would be very bad for everyone. Just imagine the fall out from that bombshell. So, Godell, along with the powers that be, quietly pass the word that this issue is over. For everyone's sake, no one touches this issue. No team goes near breaking this rule in the future. The hope is that this all goes away before busybodies (i.e. Ancient politicians bored with dealing with real-life issues) dig too deep and create a political nightmare.

So, are you sure you wish to stick with that "naive" label, friend? 'Cuz unless you bring something more enlightening to the table, your position isn't nearly as convincing to those of us who look who look beyond the easy answer.

[Owen DeBoard]

:wtf: :down:
Calling me niave. Pull your head from your Patriot-hating rear end. They all do it.

The reason they do it is because EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT, TOO! By definition, if they didn't do it, they would be at a disadvantage. Furthermore, if the rule wasn't being inforced in previous seasons, than any team that wasn't utilizing this "advantage" was either morally bound to be completely honest (which very few multi-millionaire business men can claim), masochistic, or just plain dumb. If you're in a high profile class in a major university, would you refuse to look at the final exam answer sheet that you know everyone else in the class has access to see. Mind you, this test is graded on a curve where 10% of the class will fail. I would love to think that I have the integrity to look away, but when your career and livelihood are depending on passing that class, I'm not so sure. This is why the Pats were only just one of the teams taping.

With multiple teams taping, then please explain to me who has the advantage?

As to why Foxboro is in "lockdown". Well, that's pretty easy. The entire NFL is in lockdown regarding this issue. Don't you find it interesting that not a single NFL person has stepped up to the plate and exclaimed, "Burn the witches!". Heck, the little committee press conference was a vertual love fest with freekin' Poulian as the Grand Poobah. Where did the Man-Genius go after he blew the proverbial whistle?

Here's the underlying problem. I'm going to explain to you why no one in the NFL is going to come out against the Pats. To do so would be to risk the integrity of the entire league. How would it look if the NFL or any of it's authoritative figures took a major stand on the platform of "everyone is doing it, so what's the big deal?" It would be very bad for everyone. Just imagine the fall out from that bombshell. So, Godell, along with the powers that be, quietly pass the word that this issue is over. For everyone's sake, no one touches this issue. No team goes near breaking this rule in the future. The hope is that this all goes away before busybodies (i.e. Ancient politicians bored with dealing with real-life issues) dig too deep and create a political nightmare.

So, are you sure you wish to stick with that "naive" label, friend? 'Cuz unless you bring something more enlightening to the table, your position isn't nearly as convincing to those of us who look who look beyond the easy answer.

[Ebenezer]

so if they strip the SB winner of a title because they cheated and they later find out that the newly "crowned champ" also cheated, then do they have the Conference finalists replay the SB??

of course not. they are not going to strip the titles.

[Goobylal]

Calling me niave. Pull your head from your Patriot-hating rear end. They all do it.

The reason they do it is because EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT, TOO!
Sorry but there is ZERO proof of this. In fact, on the contrary, Goodell said that ONLY the Patriots have been cheating by videotaping (from anywhere but the stands). And you see, the easiest thing to make this all go away would have been for him to say what you claim, i.e. that EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT, because there would BE no controversy. Instead he threw them under the bus.

Ask yourself, why would he do that? And since he said it, if it came to a congressional hearing, he would be required to implicate just the Patriots alone again, under oath, under penalty of perjury.

[mybills]

They broke a rule, they were fined heavily.
Heavily???? They were slapped on the wrist!

[YardRat]

Calling me niave. Pull your head from your Patriot-hating rear end. They all do it.

The reason they do it is because EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT, TOO! By definition, if they didn't do it, they would be at a disadvantage. Furthermore, if the rule wasn't being inforced in previous seasons, than any team that wasn't utilizing this "advantage" was either morally bound to be completely honest (which very few multi-millionaire business men can claim), masochistic, or just plain dumb. If you're in a high profile class in a major university, would you refuse to look at the final exam answer sheet that you know everyone else in the class has access to see. Mind you, this test is graded on a curve where 10% of the class will fail. I would love to think that I have the integrity to look away, but when your career and livelihood are depending on passing that class, I'm not so sure. This is why the Pats were only just one of the teams taping.

With multiple teams taping, then please explain to me who has the advantage?

As to why Foxboro is in "lockdown". Well, that's pretty easy. The entire NFL is in lockdown regarding this issue. Don't you find it interesting that not a single NFL person has stepped up to the plate and exclaimed, "Burn the witches!". Heck, the little committee press conference was a vertual love fest with freekin' Poulian as the Grand Poobah. Where did the Man-Genius go after he blew the proverbial whistle?

Here's the underlying problem. I'm going to explain to you why no one in the NFL is going to come out against the Pats. To do so would be to risk the integrity of the entire league. How would it look if the NFL or any of it's authoritative figures took a major stand on the platform of "everyone is doing it, so what's the big deal?" It would be very bad for everyone. Just imagine the fall out from that bombshell. So, Godell, along with the powers that be, quietly pass the word that this issue is over. For everyone's sake, no one touches this issue. No team goes near breaking this rule in the future. The hope is that this all goes away before busybodies (i.e. Ancient politicians bored with dealing with real-life issues) dig too deep and create a political nightmare.

So, are you sure you wish to stick with that "naive" label, friend? 'Cuz unless you bring something more enlightening to the table, your position isn't nearly as convincing to those of us who look who look beyond the easy answer.

The ramifications will be much more serious if it becomes an issue again in the future, and if it isn't properly dealt with it will.

Mangini isn't the first one to ***** about it, as has been noted in previous posts. Did the NFL put blinders on after investigating previous incidents for the same reasons you state? If they did, was the situation alleviated favorably by looking the other way? Obviously not, or the **** wouldn't have hit the fan last season. It didn't go away, it didn't get better...it got worse, and it will again if it isn't handled once and for all right now.

Putting your head in the sand, or trying to sweep something under the rug, is never the best tack to take because eventually it will come back and bite you in the ass even harder.

The integrity of the league is exposed to more damage by doing nothing or not enough than it would be if it were handled the way it should be...Severely.

[kernowboy]

The Patriots did it because they thought they could gain an advantage.

It is entirely possible that other teams did so to, but not to the same extent.

However there is no PROOF that whatever advantage they sort to gain actually occured - opposing coaches have said that they felt it didn't affect the outcome of the games.

I would say that poor refereeing calls have more impact on the outcomes of games than the Pats videotaping.

As other teams also suspected this was occuring, to film, download, decipher and then come up with counterploys all in the scope of the a few minutes would be some achievement. It might have been useful in conference games where you play the same team twice, but considering the annual turnover in Head Coaches and Coordinators and the rewriting of playbooks, they would have to start all over again each season.

They've been fined, they've lost draft picks. A continued obsession with this simply hides the fact, that even if they hadn't been videotaping opponents, 9 times out of 10 they'd have been better than them. And takes the eye of the ball of what we must do to beat them on a regular basis

[mybills]

I would say that poor refereeing calls have more impact on the outcomes of games than the Pats videotaping.
I'd love for them to find evidence that Belicheat paid them. It sure seems like they've been in his pocket for years.

[jmb1099]

No doubt this is pandoras box. While I don't think the NFL has the spine to do it, they not have a choice.
As far as the everyone does it theory, that could very well be. But maybe its time that it all came to an end. I personally grow tired of wondering just how much sports entertainment the nfl will allow the game of football to go

[madness]

The irony of a username.

[jmb1099]

:roflmao:
The irony of a username.

[Mr. Pink]

Man, if you think that only the Pats in the realm of football or any other sport have done or do things to gain a competitive advantage. You're more than naive and gullible...you're plain stupid.

Other teams are just smart enough not to get caught. In Bill's ultimate arrogance, he didn't care if it was in the open, got nabbed.

It's swept under the rug, so to say, because every team analyzes game tape, tries to steal signals and tries to find players tipping off schemes, coverages and plays. Why do you think no matter what game you watch coaches have charts covering their mouth when they talk to the booth?

[Mski]

Removing team from field No player, coach, or other person affiliated with a club may remove that club's team from the field during the playing of any game, including preseason, except at the direction of the referee. Any club violating this rule will be subject to disciplinary action by the Commissioner, including possible game forfeiture and sole liability for financial losses suffered by the opposing club and any other affected member clubs of the League.

kinda like bb did at the end of this years sb? they should lose another draft pick for that stunt, like the other 1st