Trade Losman for Harrington?

[blackonyx89]

Like Picard who says to Riker, MAKE IT SO! He'd fit in nicely.


http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080307/SPORTS0101/803070353/tbd/

[Mr. Miyagi]

Harrington is an FA. No need to trade for him.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Oops. Didn't read the article. Sorry.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Harrington is terrible and a Free agent. Who would we trade JP to?

[TacklingDummy]

I don't know why the Lions, Fins, and Falcons gave up on Harrington. He once had 19 TD passes in one season.

[Meathead]

personally i want somebody better than harrington

despite the trentophiles irrational confidence he remains a big risk on a team stocking themselves for a playoff run

jp is better than any fa available. unless they can get something real good in return, ie at least a third round pick or a starting capable player they should just keep him around this year

[justasportsfan]

jp is better than any fa available. unless they can get something real good in return, ie at least a third round pick or a starting capable player they should just keep him around this year
word

[The Answer]

I don't know why the Lions, Fins, and Falcons gave up on Harrington. He once had 19 TD passes in one season.

It seemed that he was having a decent season in Atlanta last year, but they are in pretty much a mess like Miami so it's understandable why both franchises cut him lose after one season.

Regardless I would take him or another former Dolphin QB (Culpepper) over Losman anyday for back up QB. Especially if The Holcombator isn't available to resign.

~The Answer

[Bill Cody]

I don't know why the Lions, Fins, and Falcons gave up on Harrington. He once had 19 TD passes in one season.

He has talent but no guts and he's not a leader. That's why.

[trapezeus]

personally i want somebody better than harrington

despite the trentophiles irrational confidence he remains a big risk on a team stocking themselves for a playoff run

jp is better than any fa available. unless they can get something real good in return, ie at least a third round pick or a starting capable player they should just keep him around this year

JP does not want to be a buffalo bill. As a result he is not the best option the bills have. I don't care if you loved Losman or hated him, everyone has to realize that Losman cannot be a bill next year.

Get rid of the potential bad attitude in the locker-room, get rid of a QB who is the exact opposite of what Trent is, and gamble that trent can stay healthy. There is no point in keeping two QB's with two totally different styles.

Obviously the bills are trying to get possession receivers and get a lot of talent to reduce the double teams for trent. He accells at the short and intermediate game with accuracy and good reads. JP launches the long ball and makes something (good or bad) out of nothing. Trent is going to use the TE, and a big receiver, roscoe in the slot and evans going long. JP won't be able to use any of those other than evans. for him to succeed he needs two speed demons.

I understand gambling on TE for a full season of healthiness is a big deal. his knock is he can't stay healthy. but if you have a QB who has similar attributes, its easier to plug and play than it is to switch the entire playbook.

[justasportsfan]

I don't think Dick is that stupid.

[trapezeus]

I don't think Dick is that stupid.

is this directed to my post about why jp can't be the backup?

[The Answer]

Loseman in good company with names like this:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695256677,00.html

"Meanwhile, teams throw away millions of dollars on quarterbacks drafted in the first round who become labeled as busts — Rick Mirer, Tim Couch, Heath Shuler, Mike Vick (yes, he can be considered a bust), JP Losman, Joey Harrington, Ryan Leaf and many more."

~The Answer

[Jan Reimers]

Harrington has had longer to develop, and more stability in his handling, than JP - and he is still not as good.We should either get a solid veteran like Brunell, or a young guy with some upside, if we replace JP. Harrington is neither.

[justasportsfan]

is this directed to my post about why jp can't be the backup?
nope. it's directed at the thread. I most likely would've quoted you if it was directed at you ;)

[blackonyx89]

Harrington has had longer to develop, and more stability in his handling, than JP - and he is still not as good.We should either get a solid veteran like Brunell, or a young guy with some upside, if we replace JP. Harrington is neither.

On second thought,pass!!!

[justasportsfan]

JP won't be able to use any of those other than evans. for him to succeed he needs two speed demons.

.
JP has proven to spread the ball. He's proven to have connected with Reed as well .Give him the weapons that the bills are trying to give TE and you will see a different qb.

Until TE PROVES to be able to throw for 3000 yards without an OL ,with Lee and Price as his main targets, your post is nothing but full of speculations. Does TE have the potential, definitely. But for now it's just potnetial. JP's has potential too if given the same weapons.

Why do you think Dick isn't agressive enough to get rid of JP? He likes JP too and see's the potential unless he's blowing smoke up everyones arse's.

[TacklingDummy]

Until TE PROVES to be able to throw for 3000 yards without an OL ,with Lee and Price as his main targets, your post is nothing but full of speculations. Does TE have the potential, definitely. But for now it's just potnetial. JP's has potential too if given the same weapons.


Ryan Leaf had potential too. And he was given less weapons than what JP had.

[justasportsfan]

Ryan Leaf had potential too. And he was given less weapons than what JP had.


It took your boy Flutie 13 years to throw for 3000 yards in 1 season. It took JP 3 with his first year injured.

[Mr. Pink]

JP is no different nor better than Harrington, Carr, Leftwich.

Yet, I see constant dissing of all 3 of them and still JP apologists.

Makes me chuckle.

[justasportsfan]

Makes me chuckle.
you think thats funny? You should read what this one poster said about Couch being better than JP. :laughing:

He's so much better he's not even a 3rd string qb for any team since he left ( got tossed) from the NFL.

[Mr. Pink]

you think thats funny? You should read what this one poster said about Couch being better than JP. :laughing:

He's so much better he's not even a 3rd string qb for any team since he left ( got tossed) from the NFL.

Actually he had a shoulder injury which is why he was out of the league...then the HGH controversy, had nothing to do with his playing abilitiy.

But again, don't let facts cloud your judgement of a player! Because if you actually relied on facts you'd realize you're wrong on 75% of your posts.

[justasportsfan]

Actually he had a shoulder injury which is why he was out of the league...then the HGH controversy, had nothing to do with his playing abilitiy.

But again, don't let facts cloud your judgement of a player! Because if you actually relied on facts you'd realize you're wrong on 75% of your posts.
he's so good that he's still unemployed. At least Holcomb had a job last year. :snicker:

[trapezeus]

JP has proven to spread the ball. He's proven to have connected with Reed as well .Give him the weapons that the bills are trying to give TE and you will see a different qb.

Until TE PROVES to be able to throw for 3000 yards without an OL ,with Lee and Price as his main targets, your post is nothing but full of speculations. Does TE have the potential, definitely. But for now it's just potnetial. JP's has potential too if given the same weapons.

Why do you think Dick isn't agressive enough to get rid of JP? He likes JP too and see's the potential unless he's blowing smoke up everyones arse's.

whatever the case is, Dick is going with Trent over JP. And he's putting the peices in place for Trent to Succeed.

I know we've discussed this before on other treads, and neither of can quantify the yards, but JP has a ton of garbage time yards. He's had several sub 100yard passing days and then got to 150-175 on one bomb when the game was out of hand. we know that as fans watching all the games. JP's stats don't concern me. His inability to be a difference maker for the betterment of the team concerns me. And now that he wants out, let him out.

Jan Reimers, makes a good comment about Harrington having more stability and weapons but inability to get surpass JP. I think having a mentor for Trent is overrated. What does a bad QB teach a young guy who seems to have a lot of confidence and picks up things quickly?

If hamdan is the back up and his style is close trent, then roll the dice.

[The Answer]

It took your boy Flutie 13 years to throw for 3000 yards in 1 season. It took JP 3 with his first year injured.

Flutie always had the skills but he was screwed over by stupid coaches early on in his NFL career.

After The Flutie went to Canada he truly became a god among men. :respect:

~The Answer

[The Answer]

he's so good that he's still unemployed. At least Holcomb had a job last year. :snicker:

Minny would have been a 10-6 if The Holcomb started from day one. Bad coaching and mismanagement prevented that.

~The Answer

[justasportsfan]

whatever the case is, Dick is going with Trent over JP. And he's putting the peices in place for Trent to Succeed. . I agree. Just pointing out that your comment on him not being able to connect with other players is not factual.



Jan Reimers, makes a good comment about Harrington having more stability and weapons but inability to get surpass JP. I think having a mentor for Trent is overrated. What does a bad QB teach a young guy who seems to have a lot of confidence and picks up things quickly?

If hamdan is the back up and his style is close trent, then roll the dice.

JP still has more upside and more potential than Harrington.Dick always states "does it make us better" whenever he makes moves. Bringing in Harrington for JP is not gonna make the team better unless we get more for JP.

[justasportsfan]

Flutie always had the skills but he was screwed over by stupid coaches early on in his NFL career.


Sounds like a qb on our roster who also wears Fluties no. 7 .

[TacklingDummy]

Sounds like a qb on our roster who also wears Fluties no. 7 .


Except Flutie has a brain.

[justasportsfan]

Except Flutie has a brain.
Yeah he had a brain that it took him 13 years to throw for 3000 yards. Jp did it in 3.

[TacklingDummy]

Yeah he had a brain that it took him 13 years to throw for 3000 yards. Jp did it in 3.

Big deal.

I care about wins.

[losman420]

I don't know why the Lions, Fins, and Falcons gave up on Harrington. He once had 19 TD passes in one season.So didn't J.P...............

[justasportsfan]

Big deal. . in other words, JP in 3 years has the same brain as Flutie did in 13 years after being drafted

I care about wins.


let's talk about this in 9 years and then compare. :D

[TacklingDummy]

in other words, JP has a better brain




let's talk about this in 9 years and then compare.

It might take Losman 9 more years to get to 21* career wins.

*Not sure how many wins Flutie had as starter at NE, CB, and SD. And don't really care.

[trapezeus]

I agree. Just pointing out that your comment on him not being able to connect with other players is not factual.



JP still has more upside and more potential than Harrington.Dick always states "does it make us better" whenever he makes moves. Bringing in Harrington for JP is not gonna make the team better unless we get more for JP.

i think Dick says that a disgruntled JP is not good for the team. i think he is saying the right thing so that there is some trade value. worst case scenario, the billls cut JP, and get nothing in return.

also, jp could connect with Reed at times, but for the most part his over throws and his mental issues on confidence really hampered him in buffalo. He really isn't very good.

[justasportsfan]

i think Dick says that a disgruntled JP is not good for the team. i think he is saying the right thing so that there is some trade value. worst case scenario, the billls cut JP, and get nothing in return.

also, jp could connect with Reed at times, but for the most part his over throws and his mental issues on confidence really hampered him in buffalo. He really isn't very good.


Dick sentiments are shared by AVP.

It's ahrd to make acurate throws when you are running for your life because your best OL is a converted undrafted rookie TE.

Even Trent looked like crap when he was harrased by a CRAPPY jets last year.

[losman420]

Yeah he had a brain that it took him 13 years to throw for 3000 yards. Jp did it in 3.Flutie spent the first of those 13 years in the USFL, and the last 8 in the CFL, so it did not take him 13 NFL seasons to finally throw 3000 yards.

[justasportsfan]

Flutie spent the first of those 13 years in the USFL, and the last 8 in the CFL, so it did not take him 13 NFL seasons to finally throw 3000 yards.
wow, that makes TD's boy even look worse. He's slower than I thought. Yet he's given up on JP even though it only took him 3 years to achieve what took Flutie more than 13 years?

[kernowboy]

I think the idea of Harrington is an excellent one.

1. At 29, he's young enough to push Edwards and old enough to provide veteran help
2. He's got all the physical atttibutes, and he's almost identical in size at 6ft4, 225lbs. If he had to step in, OL adjustments would be minimal
3. At Detroit, he was branded the saviour, but never had experienced WRs, a consistent running game, a TE or an OL which didn't violate the trades descriptions act. He was actually voted offensive player of the year by the fans there in 2005. However he suffered senior sniping by cowards like Dre Bly who later apologised
4. Traded to the Dolphins he had to sit behind an injured Culpepper on Saban's useless team so it was out of the frying pan into the fire. Then to avoid paying contract bonuses he was released
5. Foolishly deciding on the Falcons, he actually performed well with a 110.1 QB rating in Week 3 and a 121.7QB rating in Week 4. Again he was released at the end of the season to avoid bonuses. From fire to furnace expecially when the coach quit on the team.

If we claim that Losman has been undermined, it is nowhere close to what Harrington suffered. He has an inferior running game, a worse OL even when Gandy was our OT, and inexperienced WRs compared to the Bills. Even Peyton Manning would have struggled in Detroit.

His rating in Detroit generally improved going 59.9 (02) 63.9 (03) 77.5 (04) 72.0 (05) while in Miami it was 68.2 (06) and Atlanta 77.2

His pct also increased going 50.1 > 55.7 > 56.0 > 56.9 > 57.4 > 61.7

As a comparison Losman's ratings since 2005 have been 64.9, 84.9 and 76.9 whilst his pct has been 49.5, 62.4 and 63.4

There's no a lot of difference, but Harrington has improved every year. He's young enough to remind Edwards he's not an aging vet planning his retirement but old enough to help any 3rd stringer who I hope might be Kyle Wright also 6ft4, 225lbs with a decent arm and around in R7.

And any QB stuck behind the Detroit OL and playing in 58 of 64 possible games certainly does not lack courage.

Finally, Phil Simms, Dan Marino and Troy Aikman have all said that whilst Harrington has not been a success, they are not haters as any QB would have struggled in the environment Harrington has faced but he's had a really bum deal. If it had just been one, it could be called opinion, but all 3 of them agreeing?

It would be a very clever decision by the FO to sign Harrington IMO

[The Answer]

Sounds like a qb on our roster who also wears Fluties no. 7 .

Not a valid comparison.

The Flutie was a living legend coming out of Boston College after the 'Hail Mary', Loseman was an overrated and overhyped loser that washed out of UCLA to play at Tulane University because he was described as being 'slow in the head' by the UCLA coaches. (Which we later saw manifest itself in the NFL)

Flutie didn't have near the 'physical tools' that Loseman has, but yet the mighty midget was able to read NFL defenses behind mammoth offensive lineman, Loseman could have 10 seconds in the pocket and still short hop a pass, fumble or throw a pick.

~The Answer

[justasportsfan]

Not a valid comparison.

The Flutie was a living legend coming out of Boston College after the 'Hail Mary', Loseman was an overrated and overhyped loser that washed out of UCLA to play at Tulane University because he was described as being 'slow in the head' by the UCLA coaches. (Which we later saw manifest itself in the NFL)

Flutie didn't have near the 'physical tools' that Loseman has, but yet the mighty midget was able to read NFL defenses behind mammoth offensive lineman, Loseman could have 10 seconds in the pocket and still short hop a pass, fumble or throw a pick.

~The Answer
I agree the midget was better than Holcomb

[Bill Cody]

I agree the midget was better than Holcomb

Stats were never what Doug Flutie was about. He was a winner. JP Losman isn't. Case closed.

[jamze132]

I would rather just keep JP and have him and Trent battle it out during camp with the winner being the starter through thick and thin. If by week 6 the starter is playing at an acceptable level of play, trade the other for a draft pick. I say that because I know Trent will win any battle in camp and it allows JP one more chance to prove himself. He can also screw himself in the ass if he gets beat by a sophmore QB.

[Bill Cody]

it allows JP one more chance to prove himself.

But with the league of hard core Losmaniacs it wouldn't matter, they'd say Edwards was given some unfair advantage when he won the job. And it would never be one more chance because it never is. As they peek out from inside JP's jock it would still be if "the coaching was better, if the line was better, if the receivers were better, if the play calling was better, if the press were nicer, THEN JP would be the all pro we all know he's going to be on another team.

[justasportsfan]

Stats were never what Doug Flutie was about. He was a winner. .
I agree. It just took him more than 13 years though which is my point.

[Bill Cody]

I agree. It just took him more than 13 years though which is my point.

Your point is lame.

[justasportsfan]

Your point is lame.
not as lame as stil hanging on to Drew.

[Meathead]

the massive difference between harrington carr couch and jp is that all those other guys had multiple successive years (4-5) of starting virtually every game for their team. their patterns have a long record to go by. i would say theres about a two percent chance any of them would ever become a reliable starter no matter how long they played

jp has been an undisputed starter for exactly four games. hes only really played three years and has been yanked around the whole time

now ******s will say this is being a jp apologist. its not. its just being rational and mature

the fact is that a rational observer would say jp still has about a forty to fifty percent chance that the light will come on for him and he will become a reliable starter in this league. if you or anyone says you are sure about him you are only guessing

[Bill Cody]

not as lame as stil hanging on to Drew.

That's what we should have done and used those picks we flushed on Lossman on O Line.

[losman420]

wow, that makes TD's boy even look worse. He's slower than I thought. Yet he's given up on JP even though it only took him 3 years to achieve what took Flutie more than 13 years?First off i want to say i agree with you about jp, givin the chance with some weapons, i think we might see a different Qb. Now with that said , I don understand how what i said makes Flutie look worse, in 13 years before coming to the Bills He played 1 USFL season, 4 NFL seasons and 8 in the CFL, in the 4 years in the NFL , 3 was with some pretty bad patriot teams if i remember correctly. Anyways my point was, its kind of unfair to say it took him 13 years to throw 3000 yardsbecause he wasn't in the NFL for all 13 years.

[RockStar36]

I'm not reading any of this hogwash. Anyone who honestly thinks Harrington would be good in Buffalo is on crack.

[TacklingDummy]

I'm not reading any of this hogwash. Anyone who honestly thinks Harrington would be good in Buffalo is on crack.

Than you must think Losman is no good for Buffalo.

[Typ0]

once a licker always a licker...and you lickers suffer from the worst blind homerism I've ever seen. In your eyes JP=Jesus Christ he can not fail. If he stays and doesn't play he's getting screwed up by the organization. If he stays and plays like crap the organization screwed him up. If he stays and plays well (slim chance) the results are obvious. If we trade him and he goes somewhere else and plays like crap this organization screwed him up. If he goes somewhere else and plays well this organization screwed him up.

Where does JP Lossmans accountablity start? The guy has sucked ass in AT LEAST 2/3 of the games he's played here and the 1/3 he looked OK it was mostly because he blindly tossed a ball downfield and asked someone else to make a play. I'd get rid of this bum (who will be gone next year anyway) and pick up Joey Harrington cheap in a heartbeat if it meant a late round draft pick and a free beer at Duffs.

[askabry]

um ... isn't Harrington a FA? Maybe I'm wrong on that.

For anyone that is a true Buffalo Bills fan to say that Losman can't become a winner in this league is crazy. If it can happen to Todd Collins ...

But really, I'd say there must be at least seven teams that would have upgraded by taking on Losman last year. One of them played in a Super Bowl the year previous, and two of the other teams are in our division. Someday he might prove himself.

That doesn't mean he'd be any good, though. Like I've said elsewhere, a QB should be able to do some basic things - and Losman consistently proves he can't get the simple things right. A five yard out to a RB, well, that's just an entry-level skill.

If you can't do that, you can't lead a team.

[Typ0]

um ... isn't Harrington a FA? Maybe I'm wrong on that.

For anyone that is a true Buffalo Bills fan to say that Losman can't become a winner in this league is crazy. If it can happen to Todd Collins ...

But really, I'd say there must be at least seven teams that would have upgraded by taking on Losman last year. One of them played in a Super Bowl the year previous, and two of the other teams are in our division. Someday he might prove himself.

That doesn't mean he'd be any good, though. Like I've said elsewhere, a QB should be able to do some basic things - and Losman consistently proves he can't get the simple things right. A five yard out to a RB, well, that's just an entry-level skill.

If you can't do that, you can't lead a team.

oh I think there's a chance he could become a winner...it's just a small chance. So you think we should have held onto Todd Collins for a decade while he "developed" into someone who could manage a game enough to win? I kind of doubt it. We'd be much better off getting something, anything for Lossman and paying a veteran backup less money to do more because that's what we would be getting.

[askabry]

Yup. what that guy said.