Let's be realistic about Troupe and Johnson....

[OpIv37]

Do they fill positions of need? Yes. Are they upgrades over what we have? Maybe (I'd say probably on Johnson and probably not on Troupe). But are they real long term solutions? No. They're the best still available (and possibly the best value) at their respective positions, but these guys would really be filling a roster spot until we can draft/trade/sign someone better (which could very well be a couple of years).

So, Bryant Johnson things he deserves more money because Oakland and Minnesota were dumb enough to over-pay second-rate receivers? I have no problem with the FO telling him to go f himself. Just because some other teams made stupid decisions doesn't mean we have to follow suit.

Honestly, I'm concerned about the WR and the TE position and I don't like going into the season with what we have. But I'd only be slightly less concerned with Troupe and Johnson- they'd get us from mediocre to average. Wow. And if they reduced the chances of us drafting someone at their positions while also screwing up the cap, what's the point?

If there were one or two players out there that we needed for a serious run and the FO went cheap and lost them, I'd be pissed. But that's not what's happening here. I won't be upset if we do end up signing them because they are mild improvements over what we have. I just don't see either of these guys being the difference-maker that pushes us into the playoffs and I think we can get by without them.

[Mski]

troupe is out signed with tampa

[YardRat]

I'd rather go to training camp with Evans, Johnson, draft pick, Royals, Troupe (I know...he signed), draft pick than Evans, Royals, 2 draft picks and nobody.

[Mitchy moo]

At the right price / incentive laden contract, BJ is fine. Troupe I could do without unless he is a steal and we can look at him.

[OpIv37]

I'd rather go to training camp with Evans, Johnson, draft pick, Royals, Troupe (I know...he signed), draft pick than Evans, Royals, 2 draft picks and nobody.

I agree to an extent- I'd rather go in with Johnson than nobody, but I'd rather go in with a draft pick than a #3 slot receiver hosing our cap for the next two seasons.

[Meathead]

well we defenlly dont need a slot wr consider we already have two excellent ones who are just about perfectly suited to that specific role

you certainly dont want to go into the season with either of those two guys as the designated number two or be forced to run a rookie even a high first rounder in that spot. that would handcuff the offense all year long as we saw last year. at the least bj would be an upgrade over those two guys and its at least possible he could develop into a reliable threat at that spot

so heres hoping they get him to sign a reasonable contract. i just saw somewhere that said the bills were trying to get an incentive laden contract in place for him which would be perfect allowing them to only pay big bucks for big production

[patmoran2006]

They should've offered Wilford more money than Miami and we wouldn't be talking about this.

[YardRat]

I agree to an extent- I'd rather go in with Johnson than nobody, but I'd rather go in with a draft pick than a #3 slot receiver hosing our cap for the next two seasons.

I would be surprised if Johnson were looking for a contract that was capable of 'hosing our cap'. He may be looking for the best contract he can get, and that may be more than the Bills are willing to lay out at this point, but I sincerely doubt he's looking for monster numbers.

[OpIv37]

I would be surprised if Johnson were looking for a contract that was capable of 'hosing our cap'. He may be looking for the best contract he can get, and that may be more than the Bills are willing to lay out at this point, but I sincerely doubt he's looking for monster numbers.

I bet he wasn't looking for monster numbers when FA started. I bet he is now, after the Jevon Walker and Berrian contracts.

Someone posted in another thread that the Bills were working on an incentive laden contract for him (no link was posted so I don't know how valid that info is). I think that would be a great idea- Johnson would at least get a base salary and would be protected if he does well, and the Bills would be protected if he doesn't. The only big sticking point could be the length.

[YardRat]

I bet he wasn't looking for monster numbers when FA started. I bet he is now, after the Jevon Walker and Berrian contracts.

Someone posted in another thread that the Bills were working on an incentive laden contract for him (no link was posted so I don't know how valid that info is). I think that would be a great idea- Johnson would at least get a base salary and would be protected if he does well, and the Bills would be protected if he doesn't. The only big sticking point could be the length.

Or the up-front money. Or both.

[Tatonka]

troupe was better than anything we have.. with more potential.. but it doesnt matter.

the remaining TEs suck.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I agree with just about everything you've said in this thread, OP.

If the Bills are going to make a serious run at a Super Bowl, they need to add at least one play-maker at WR and/or TE. With this draft being deep at those positions, I believe that it is the intention of the Bills FO to draft a WR and a TE within the first 3 rounds--everything that they have done this offseason points to them having already made up their minds to do this (and it would make a lot of sense, especially if they can get a 3rd round pick for Losman).

If that is their intention, then, they don't want to give a lot of money to a so-so veteran WR or TE who they figure that they will only need to rely on until the guys that they draft develop into starters in a year or two--no matter how much of an upgrade those vets would be in the short-term (that first year or two that the draftees will need). That would be a waste of money--especially bonus money--that they will need to wrap up Evans long-term (if they can do that) and for other players (like Crowell and other FAs next year).

If they can work out an incentive laden deal with Johnson, fine. If not, what's the worst that can happen?

They'll work out a cheap, one-year deal with someone like DJ Hackett or one of the other WRs who has not gotten a lot of play so far in free agency and "force-feed" the rookie that they get in the draft: like they did with Lee Evans, who stepped into the starting lineup midway through his rookie season, and Marshawn Lynch, just last season.

That may not be the way that they would ideally want to go into this up-cooming season--of that we fans would like them to do it--but it just might be what they will have to do and the most practical approach for them to take if they want to keep Evans and end up with play-makers who can take the team to the next level in their lineup as soon as possible.

And, that applies equally or even more at TE as it does at WR. Royal may not be a star, but he is serviceable (and would be a quality # 2 TE) as the starter in the short-term. Teyo Johnson, Tim Massaquoi and Derek Schouman may be no better than a # 3 or # 4 TE, but they know what they are doing and could perhaps hold the fort as the # 2 TE until the rookie is ready to take over that role (no later than mid-season)--maybe with Matt Murphy serving as the blocking TE in obvious running situations (after all, he did play TE in that situation before being converted to an OT). If they draft a polished TE like Fred Davis or Martellus Bennett who should be ready to "hit the ground running", the rookie may be able to step into the # 2 role by the end of training camp and start pushing Royal for playing time by midseason.

Or, if they don't think that the guys they have are sufficient insurance should the rookie struggle, they could try to sign a guy like Bubba Franks or Eric Johnson who may be nearing the end of the line but can give them a season as the # 2 TE. As far as I know, Franks and Johnson really haven't generated a lot of interest in free agency, so they may be willing to sign for a year for not a lot of money. Neither one is going to be a "difference-maker" at this point, but, having been starters in the NFL, they could hold down the # 2 TE spot until the rookie starts moving up the depth-charts.

Again, if the Bills intend to try to get a real play-maker at TE in this draft, which is deep at the position, why should they tie up a lot of money in a guy who they only really need to keep for a year? With no TE on the free agent market being significantly better than Royal, why invest money, especially bonus money, and years in a guy who is going to end up being their # 3 TE, perhaps as early as midseason?

The first part of the draft is about getting play-makers. If the Bills are going to add real play-makers on offense this offseason, they are going to have to get them in the draft. And this draft just happens to be deep in potential play-makers at WR and TE--the two positions where the Bills need play-makers most. So, why not get them there?

But, if they get them in the draft, they are not going to want them to be sitting on the bench any longer than absolutely necessary. You want your play-makers on the field where they can become the "difference-makers" you drafted them to be. So, why tie up time and money, especially bonus money that you can use to add other play-makers or keep the play-makers that you already have, in guys who you already know aren't going ot be big-time play-makers or "difference-makers" and are only going to keep the play-makers that you have drafted from getting on the field (or cause problems in your lockerroom if they are supplanted by the kid that you have drafted)?

I'm with you, Op: having Johnson at the right price and years would be nice. But, if he goes elsewhere, that's fine, too. And, the same with Troupe. Or, any of the other WRs and TEs.

If anything, the approach that the Bills FO has taken so far shows that they are really trying to put together the core of a team that can not just make the playoffs, but become good enough to actually challenge for a Super Bowl title (not so much this season, but certainly next). Now, their efforts could be derailed (at this point pretty easily), especially if Evans isn't willing to sign a contract extension without "breaking the bank", but it is good to see that they are actually trying to achieve the goal that we fans all want them to achieve (whether we think that they are going about it the right way or not).

[askabry]

It's interesting to me how little props Bryant Johnson gets on these pages. Look at his situation, and his consistency.

Look around the league; the best attacks feature at least two tall, speedy guys. We've got none. (We do have the best selection of guys 5-10 or less).

There is, however, one that would like to sign a contract here. I can't recall the last time a 6-3, 210 WR with 4.38 speed stopped in Buffalo. I bet it doesn't happen again anytime soon.

Not that we should bow down and genuflect to the player, but ... c'mon. People act like he's chopped liver. He's caught 210 balls in five years, and started less than 40 times over that span.

[askabry]

...they are mild improvements over what we have. I just don't see either of these guys being the difference-maker that pushes us into the playoffs and I think we can get by without them.

Improvements come in increments; they don't always have to come in quantum leaps. You don't necessarily have to pick up a Stroud at every position to get to the playoffs, or win the Super Bowl.

The Bills can't "get by"; they haven't been able to so far, and if Stroud turns out to be the real deal, you have a three year window right now. In another year, Evans will be gone (face it). Johnson, and one, tall capable TE change the very structure of the offense the way Stroud does for the defense.

Because they put the intermediate route back on our screen, like Stroud puts run defence on ours. Going forward with what we've got, you have 8-12 yard dump-offs to 5-10 WRs and 60 yard passes to Evans. Not too hard to defense, is it?

It's possible this team could coalesce and get to 10-12 wins in one year. This is our time, right now with these players. Let's not "get by".

[bflojohn]

I think the Bills are "on the mark" with the trade for Marcus Stroud and the free agents already signed. I'm of the opinion that we will be thrilled with April's haul of talent, and it makes us "on paper" a contender once again! It's been a long time coming, but they've turned the corner and I'd say it is full speed ahead! WR and TE will come in April boys!!! I'm guessing Kelly/ Sweed and Davis/ Keller in any order they like!!