Article: Stroud's steriod use being ignored?

[The Answer]

This is concerning. Thoughts?

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/jerrysullivan/story/298085.html

"Stroud’s ankle is a huge question mark, however. Teams don’t give up on run-stuffing tackles that easily. Stroud took supplements to help recover from ankle surgery. That’s one big reason athletes use performance-enhancing drugs — to help recover from injuries.

Who’s to say Stroud won’t cheat again if his ankle affects his ability to stay on the field? He says his steroid suspension is in the past. But it’s not that simple. If the baseball players don’t get the benefit of the doubt, neither does this guy.

As far as I’m concerned, the Bills traded for a liar and a cheat."

~The Answer

[FlyingDutchman]

first of all, what makes him a liar? second, people get second chances in life. He goofed, and Im willing to give him a second shot. Its not like he was doing it to get an edge, he was trying to recover. Thats very popular among athletes (ask andy Pettitte). And finally, after the last couple years of our terrible run D, maybe some ex-roid freak is just what we need.

[Patrick76777]

This is concerning. Thoughts?

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/jerrysullivan/story/298085.html

"Stroud’s ankle is a huge question mark, however. Teams don’t give up on run-stuffing tackles that easily. Stroud took supplements to help recover from ankle surgery. That’s one big reason athletes use performance-enhancing drugs — to help recover from injuries.

Who’s to say Stroud won’t cheat again if his ankle affects his ability to stay on the field? He says his steroid suspension is in the past. But it’s not that simple. If the baseball players don’t get the benefit of the doubt, neither does this guy.

As far as I’m concerned, the Bills traded for a liar and a cheat."

~The Answer

My only concern is the Sullivan is a HUGE Loser!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can Stroud improve the defense? If so that is all that matters to me.

[raphael120]

Haha...but if he wasn't on the Bills.... "HE'S A BUM, BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

[hydro]

Haha...but if he wasn't on the Bills.... "HE'S A BUM, BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

Your point?

[Mad Max]

"Stroud said his only failure was a lack of research. Sure. That’s what all the athletes say when they get caught with their hand in the steroid jar. It’s the same excuse Shawne Merriman, the Chargers’ star linebacker, used when he got his four-game suspension two years ago.
Sorry for being skeptical, but after awhile you become numb to athletes’ denials. No one is ever guilty. All steroids are taken unwittingly. " Jerry Sullivan


I workout, and I use supplements, many (if not most athletes, weightlifters do). Here's the problem, the supplement industry is largely unregulated. What this means is all sorts of stuff can be marketed and sold legally that may not necessarily be legal for use within a given sports league.

How could something be legal to sell and not legal to use by players in a specific league? (ie a particular product or substance was on their "banned substances" list). Here's how. A lot of stuff that is on banned substances lists, is, when sold, inert. BUT, and herein lies the rub, when ingested, the body will convert many of these substances into REAL steroids. Those substances, called "pro-hormones" are often marketed as "legal, safe,and extremely effective in the building and or repair or muscle".

So I think a lot of these athletes are actually using these pro-hormones out of ignorance. They buy them over the counter, so they think they must be legal, right? The boxes don't say "warning, steroids within". And when the random drug tests come back positive, I'm sure many of them are truly shocked, after all they never injected any "gear", how they heck did they come back "positive"?

You have to remember, most of these guys are not the brightest of bulbs, they're not going to do a lot of research on things like these. They heard or see something work, and it's legal..done deal.

Now don't get me wrong some athletes may well know that what they're ingesting will turn into a banned substance, and plan on claiming ignorance if caught on a test. But some of them likely are victims of their own ignorance, train 'em up.

[Gunzlingr]

Didn't Jim Miller get busted for using over the counter meds?

[Kenny]

Truth is, he worries me too. Teams dont give up on players that are both one of the best in the game at their given position, and a player who helps make a core part of their team.... unless there's something wrong with them.
He's not young, and no one really knows if he's recovered from his injury yet.

But, we only gave up a 3rd rounder (and a day2 pick)... so I think the risk is well worth it.
He's no longer a player you'll build your defense around, but there's no doubt he makes our defense better if he's healthy.
Besides, -do you really think we can pick up a rookie in the last round of day1 with as much risk/reward potential as Stroud?

[don137]

The Answer and Jerry Sullivan are two peas in a pod...Nobody takes them seriously.

[hydro]

Truth is, he worries me too. Teams dont give up on players that are both one of the best in the game at their given position, and a player who helps make a core part of their team.... unless there's something wrong with them.
He's not young, and no one really knows if he's recovered from his injury yet.

But, we only gave up a 3rd rounder (and a day2 pick)... so I think the risk is well worth it.
He's no longer a player you'll build your defense around, but there's no doubt he makes our defense better if he's healthy.
Besides, -do you really think we can pick up a rookie in the last round of day1 with as much risk/reward potential as Stroud?

Round 3 is a day two pick now in the new format.

[Kenny]

Round 3 is a day two pick now in the new format.

I heard they changed it (ie., shortened the time allocated for draft choices), but didnt know they changed the day1/day2 structure!
Thanks for the heads up1

[Jan Reimers]

Jerry Sullivan is a holier than thou, unforgiving SOB.

I hope to Hell he is living a perfect life.

[evol4276]

hollis thomas got busted for using steroid INHALERS! im asthmatic and can tell you that doesn't mean ass. they ban some ridiculous things

[Confused]

he can cheat all he wants. He's on our team. As long as he stops Maroney, Mcfadden, Ronnie Brown, willie Parker and the like not to mention rips that pretty lil faggit Tom Brady's head off he can do no wrong in my book.

[The Answer]

The Answer and Jerry Sullivan are two peas in a pod...Nobody takes them seriously.

Very funny - but you have to admit this is concerning, especially since this was never discussed before the trade.

Don't forget a few years ago Stroud was among the top DT's in the league, even regarded as the best DT in the league by some. Therefore you have to wonder why Jax was happy to get rid of him for a mere 3rd and 5th round pick.

~The Answer

[madness]

What's hiding in your closet Jerry Sullivan? Are you a perfect little boyscout or do you have a thing for little boyscouts?

Whatever trouble you get in down the road, we'll try to remember to give you a second chance like you gave Stroud.

Character can be put to the test by how a person responds to adversity.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, lack of character can be shown by a quick judgement followed by harmful words.

[ParanoidAndroid]

We need a smiley with a pot full of brown stuff and someone stirring it so I can post it here.

[Mitchy moo]

Merriman went from a 4 game suspension to MVP last season. This league is what have you done for me lately, not what have you done lately.

[Goobylal]

What I heard is that after Stroud got suspended for the steroids, the Jags tried to refuse to pay him. And then he said he'd never play for them again. Hence the reason he got traded.

[HHURRICANE]

This guy can pump his body full of roids as long as he doesn't get caught. Matter-of-fact I hope he plays with roid-rage all season.

If the guy hepls the team I could care less.

[Mr. Pink]

Jerry Sullivan is one of the better writers locally. He actually looks at the issues/teams/events objectively before having an opinion.

If we suck, he says it.

He doesn't sugarcoat jack and tells it like it is. I fully respect his columns and pieces because of it.

[Gunzlingr]

What I heard is that after Stroud got suspended for the steroids, the Jags tried to refuse to pay him. And then he said he'd never play for them again. Hence the reason he got traded.

One article I read said that they pressured him into taking them so he would come back earlier, and when he got caught they left him hanging in the wind. Which leads to the events in your post. He has freely admitted he screwed up, but was upset at the way they treated him.

[FlyingDutchman]

Very funny - but you have to admit this is concerning, especially since this was never discussed before the trade.

Don't forget a few years ago Stroud was among the top DT's in the league, even regarded as the best DT in the league by some. Therefore you have to wonder why Jax was happy to get rid of him for a mere 3rd and 5th round pick.

~The Answer

Yes, A FEW YEARS AGO, he was one of the top in the league. The shelf life of a DT is probably the shortest life of any position as far as peak years. Add the fact that hes had injuries and it makes sense why they took what they did. It does not mean that he is not a very servicable DT, they probably just assume his best years are behind him and they'll take what they can.

[Jan Reimers]

I just have a problem with Sullivan being so judgmental. I don't remember Stroud having a whole string of problems, but rather having made a single mistake.

I also doubt that Sullivan knows exactly what happened with Stroud, so to crucify him and call him a liar and a cheat is about the worst kind of journalism. Perhaps Sullivan should get off his self-righteous horse and allow the man one mistake.

[Nighthawk]

Ahh, how writers need to stir controversy!

[Philagape]

I've read enough to be convinced that it was an honest mistake. And the Jags hung him out to dry.

[gr8slayer]

I really don't care as long as he makes us a better team.

[feelthepain]

Truth is, he worries me too. Teams dont give up on players that are both one of the best in the game at their given position, and a player who helps make a core part of their team.... unless there's something wrong with them.
He's not young, and no one really knows if he's recovered from his injury yet.

But, we only gave up a 3rd rounder (and a day2 pick)... so I think the risk is well worth it.
He's no longer a player you'll build your defense around, but there's no doubt he makes our defense better if he's healthy.
Besides, -do you really think we can pick up a rookie in the last round of day1 with as much risk/reward potential as Stroud?

Sounds like a whole bunch of "if" and "buts" for your top FA signing. I keep reading how he makes your defense better, well he didn't exactly light up the league the last two years. I think Bill fans are thinking they're getting a guy that played 4 years ago, clearly they're not.

[feelthepain]

I've read enough to be convinced that it was an honest mistake. And the Jags hung him out to dry.

How would they benefit from doing that?

[yordad]

Yes, A FEW YEARS AGO, he was one of the top in the league. The shelf life of a DT is probably the shortest life of any position as far as peak years. Add the fact that hes had injuries and it makes sense why they took what they did. It does not mean that he is not a very servicable DT, they probably just assume his best years are behind him and they'll take what they can.Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree. They don't require great speed or hops. Strenght is the last to go. Ever heard of Ted Washington?

"The Anthony Hargrove case proved the Bills will bend the standard if it helps them win. Hargrove had a history of substance abuse (non-steroid variety) when he came to Buffalo. The Bills gave him a second chance. He showed his gratitude by getting a four-game suspension at the start of last season (on top of a scuffle with cops outside a bar)." ~ Wasn't he suspended for the scuffle?

He ends with saying, "But all will be forgiven, I’m sure, if he helps the Bills stop the run." That is the bottom line for me.

[Goobylal]

Sounds like a whole bunch of "if" and "buts" for your top FA signing. I keep reading how he makes your defense better, well he didn't exactly light up the league the last two years. I think Bill fans are thinking they're getting a guy that played 4 years ago, clearly they're not.
Tell me what have any of the guys the Dols have acquired done in the past few years? I'd rather take a chance on a guy like Stroud than on Randy Starks.

[Mad Max]

Tell me what have any of the guys the Dols have acquired done in the past few years? I'd rather take a chance on a guy like Stroud than on Randy Starks.

Please don't be ignorant , look how well Trent Green turned out for them!

[Goobylal]

Please don't be ignorant , look how well Trent Green turned out for them!
:lol:

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Well, that didn't take long before Sully started smearing the Bills again.

How does the Buffalo Fishwrap continue to employ this pompous fool?

[jimbohastle51]

if the NFL started strickt steriod and hgh testing the league would be in done for. does anyone honestly think that a 6'6 270 man runs a 4.5 or 4.6 40 and has the body of a greek god by birth, NO it is from alot of juice and hgh and also an intense training program.

[buffalony85]

i don't care if he's healthy or not a 6-5 350 lbs DT is a force no matter what

[buffalony85]

Sounds like a whole bunch of "if" and "buts" for your top FA signing. I keep reading how he makes your defense better, well he didn't exactly light up the league the last two years. I think Bill fans are thinking they're getting a guy that played 4 years ago, clearly they're not.Same could have been said last year for Joey Porter

[hydro]

i don't care if he's healthy or not a 6-5 350 lbs DT is a force no matter what

He is no 350lbs. It says on NFL.com he is 310.

[Al the Bills Fan]

Yes, he has had a problem in the past and Yes I am worried about what will happen (suspension) if he tests positive again but I believe that everyone deserves a second chance.

If he stays clean, running up the middle will be hard against us next year.

:gobills:

[feelthepain]

Same could have been said last year for Joey Porter

No, Porter has been pretty healthy and has also never been suspended for roids.

[The Spaz]

Sounds like a whole bunch of "if" and "buts" for your top FA signing. I keep reading how he makes your defense better, well he didn't exactly light up the league the last two years. I think Bill fans are thinking they're getting a guy that played 4 years ago, clearly they're not.

Worry about you're own team. I think you guys have a lot more issues to worry about than ours.

[feelthepain]

Worry about you're own team. I think you guys have a lot more issues to worry about than ours.

Really!

The Bills total offense rank in 07,

Buffalo 30th

Miami 28th

The Bills total defensive rank in 07,

Buffalo 31st

Miami 23rd

Miami had far more key injuries then the Bills yet we still had better overall staistics in 07. The reason the overall statistics are important is because they are taken from a full 16 game schedule, not two or three games.

[The Spaz]

Really!

The Bills total offense rank in 07,

Buffalo 30th

Miami 28th

The Bills total defensive rank in 07,

Buffalo 31st

Miami 23rd

Miami had far more key injuries then the Bills yet we still had better overall staistics in 07. The reason the overall statistics are important is because they are taken from a full 16 game schedule, not two or three games.

We had 17 injuries last year #1 in the NFL and another thing 0-2 Beyotttchhhh:sweep:

[The Spaz]

Really!

The Bills total offense rank in 07,

Buffalo 30th

Miami 28th

The Bills total defensive rank in 07,

Buffalo 31st

Miami 23rd

Miami had far more key injuries then the Bills yet we still had better overall staistics in 07. The reason the overall statistics are important is because they are taken from a full 16 game schedule, not two or three games.

Another thing those rankings are better and you still couldn't beat us. Yeah I think you have more problems than we do.:up:

[gr8slayer]

Really!

The Bills total offense rank in 07,

Buffalo 30th

Miami 28th

The Bills total defensive rank in 07,

Buffalo 31st

Miami 23rd

Miami had far more key injuries then the Bills yet we still had better overall staistics in 07. The reason the overall statistics are important is because they are taken from a full 16 game schedule, not two or three games.
You really aren't making a very good argument. You are 0-4 to us over the past two seasons and were 1-15 last year which was tied for the worst in league history. You really should hide in a corner until your team does something worth bragging about.

[gr8slayer]

No, Porter has been pretty healthy and has also never been suspended for roids.
He was a real model citizen last year in Las Vegas wasn't he :up:

[BillsFever21]

There is no doubt that Stroud isn't the same player he was 5 years ago and probably never will be. He doesn't need to be to still be a decent DT. It was worth the gamble for a 3rd and 5th round draft pick.

The idea of some people turning a blind eye to his steroid use isn't surprising though. Some people on here crucified Rodney Harrison when he was busted and some still do to this very day. It doesn't matter if the player plays on the Bills or Patriots they still cheated. For some to act like it doesn't matter or that he was conned into it makes Bills fans look like homers.

[kernowboy]

This is however one of the reasons that I have said we would be stupid to ignore taking a DT in this draft.

1) Taking a DE means they are most likely 4th in a 4 man rotation.
2) Some of the DE's are bums like Calais Campbell who have 'massive bust' written all over them
3) This draft is DT tackle deep
4) considering the injury history of Stroud and McCargo, do we really want to find ourselves starting Williams/Johnson?
5) there are DTs who are extremely ahtletic and could concievably start at end for us

I have been told the selection of Dre Moore in R2, would be a luxury pick. Having played the NT, 3-tackle and DE at Maryland, able to run a 40 as quick as 4.82 (and 4.88 at the combine) and with far better size their our backup DTs, he is possibly far more important than drafting a DE.

[feelthepain]

We had 17 injuries last year #1 in the NFL and another thing 0-2 Beyotttchhhh:sweep:

With your rookie LB being the only loss worthy of talking about.

[Pride]

I also heard a story related to this.

Stroud got injured, and when the Jags said they wouldn't pay him during his injury, they told him that if he took steroids to heal faster, they would pay him. I believe that it was supposed to be a long term injury, and the steroids helped to rush him back to the field.

Then he got suspended and the team failed to state that they actually recommended that he take them.

That created bad blood, and he wanted to be traded. The team knew that if they didnt oblige, then he could possibly take that info to the NFL oversight committee. So they traded him just to keep things quiet. I am betting that once he retires, the truth will come out about all of this.

[Pride]

Really!

The Bills total offense rank in 07,

Buffalo 30th

Miami 28th

The Bills total defensive rank in 07,

Buffalo 31st

Miami 23rd

Miami had far more key injuries then the Bills yet we still had better overall staistics in 07. The reason the overall statistics are important is because they are taken from a full 16 game schedule, not two or three games.


You also have to remember that when you are being blown out (or losing), your team resorted to the pass. Passing alone often yield more total yards. The same is true on defense. When you are losing, teams (other than the pats) tend to run on you to burn clock, rather than pass to allow for INT's, incompletions to stop the clock, and more likely turnover on downs.

I think your rankings are skewed for those 2 reasons.

[The Spaz]

With your rookie LB being the only loss worthy of talking about.

Depth is depth, hence if a starter goes down they can fill in but when the depth guy keeps going down you have a debacle.

[justasportsfan]

No, Porter has been pretty healthy and has also never been suspended for roids.
maybe he should roid up because he blows. Told you he wasn't worth spit without his 6 buddies to help him on the field.

[justasportsfan]

Really!

The Bills total offense rank in 07,

Buffalo 30th

Miami 28th

The Bills total defensive rank in 07,

Buffalo 31st

Miami 23rd

Miami had far more key injuries then the Bills yet we still had better overall staistics in 07. The reason the overall statistics are important is because they are taken from a full 16 game schedule, not two or three games.


bills 7-9
miami 1-15

[feelthepain]

You also have to remember that when you are being blown out (or losing), your team resorted to the pass. Passing alone often yield more total yards. The same is true on defense. When you are losing, teams (other than the pats) tend to run on you to burn clock, rather than pass to allow for INT's, incompletions to stop the clock, and more likely turnover on downs.

I think your rankings are skewed for those 2 reasons.

The Bills have not improved on their offensive or defensive rankings in the past two years. Miami's losses were far more serious to their star players then the Bills in 07, yet Miami still managed better numbers on both sides of the ball then the Bills. I know Bill fans only want to see what makes them feel better about their team, but those numbers are not of a Bills team making strides and heading in the right direction.

[The Spaz]

The Bills have not improved on their offensive or defensive rankings in the past two years. Miami's losses were far more serious to their star players then the Bills in 07, yet Miami still managed better numbers on both sides of the ball then the Bills. I know Bill fans only want to see what makes them feel better about their team, but those numbers are not of a Bills team making strides and heading in the right direction.

Yet you keep losing to us how pathetic...:oops:

[Goobylal]

With your rookie LB being the only loss worthy of talking about.
LOL!

And who did Miami lose who was of any value during last season? They were winless during the 7 games Ronnie Brown played, so it's doubtful he would have made any difference in their record had he stayed healthy. Zach Thomas? He's done and gone anyway. Keith Traylor? Same. Trent Green? Same.

No, Miami's problems were not tendering Welker at the 1st round level and losing him, cutting McMichael, and trading Chambers, not to mention having an aging defense that finally saw the bottom drop out. And as I mentioned, none of their recent pickups have done much in their careers, so that likely won't be a quick fix.

On offense, the Dols need to replace 2 starters on the OL, need to find a QB, a #1 WR (neither Ginn nor Wilford are one), and need a #1 TE. There's also a question mark about Ronnie Brown's return.

For the Bills, they improved their defense and will be getting back their young and injured starters like Poz and Simpson.

On offense they still need a big WR opposite Evans and a real #1 TE. I was hoping they'd add one in FA, but they couldn't (TE Eric Johnson is still out there as is DJ Hackett, and both are very good players when healthy, but they're not healthy all that much). If they can add these during the draft, they'll be fine.

[colin]

he took what his dr (team doc) told him too.

that got him thrown under the bus and he's a guy who won't play that garbage.


he's about 325 or so, he's 6'6" and has been about 3 bills from highschool on. he's always been a physical monster and has worked out his entire career -- pretty hard too (he doesn't get the lazy rap so many DTs do).

i suspect most athletes in the pros to be users, but he is a guy that can get away without it if he wants to.

[feelthepain]

Yet you keep losing to us how pathetic...:oops:

And the Bills keep losing when their fans claim improvements abound...how equally pathetic.

[The Spaz]

And the Bills keep losing when their fans claim improvements abound...how equally pathetic.

How can you be better than us if you can't beat us?

[Goobylal]

And the Bills keep losing when their fans claim improvements abound...how equally pathetic.
Oh, the irony!

What were you claiming prior to the 2006 season? Prior to last season?

But go ahead and ignore this post as well.

[feelthepain]

How can you be better than us if you can't beat us?
When did I say the Dolphins were better? I think if you read what I write, you'll see I argue the fact the Bill fans think the Bills are good enough to be a playoff team or a division contender based on personell and wins.

Also if you'll notice head to head matchups prove nothing. In 07, the Giants lose to the Pats during their regular season matchup. The Pats then enter the Superbowl with an 18-0 record and are heavy favorites to blow out the Giants. Everyone called the Pats better, but they weren't were they? Don't go gettin all confused about records and matchups cause they prove nothing.

[justasportsfan]

When did I say the Dolphins were better? I think if you read what I write, you'll see I argue the fact the Bill fans think the Bills are good enough to be a playoff team or a division contender based on personell and wins.

Also if you'll notice head to head matchups prove nothing. In 07, the Giants lose to the Pats during their regular season matchup. The Pats then enter the Superbowl with an 18-0 record and are heavy favorites to blow out the Giants. Everyone called the Pats better, but they weren't were they? Don't go gettin all confused about records and matchups cause they prove nothing.
okay, forget head to head. WE're still 7-9 team and the fins are 1-15. Better?

[feelthepain]

okay, forget head to head. WE're still 7-9 team and the fins are 1-15. Better?
The Pats were 18-0 the Giants 13-6 yet the Giants still won the Superbowl, did the records determine the better team then? No!! So why does it determine the better team in other situations? It doesn't!

[dplus47]

No, Miami's problems were not tendering Welker at the 1st round level and losing him, cutting McMichael, and trading Chambers, not to mention having an aging defense that finally saw the bottom drop out. And as I mentioned, none of their recent pickups have done much in their careers, so that likely won't be a quick fix.



i don't have much problem with your post, but it strikes me as funny how important so many people think welker is. look at the super bowl for evidence of how important a slot receiver is. let wes welker have a career day on you. you'll win as long as you take care of your other business.

wes welker is a nice player, but he's a QB's safety valve. that's a luxury a team with a lot of holes can't afford. they got a starting C out of the deal, which, IMO, is something i'm glad the team saw as a higher priority.

also, yeah, the fins were winless with brown and green, but how many teams lose their starters at QB and RB and #1 WR and go on to have good seasons? granted, they traded their #1 WR--a move i wasn't that into--but by that point the season was over. the offense fell off a cliff at that point, never to return. as a p.s., brown was having a monster year when he went down.

keep in mind, i'm not trying to talk smack. 0-4 is 0-4, and you won't catch me trying to argue otherwise.

two things do tend to bother me about last year's phins team: all the talk about the welker trade being a "mistake," and all the talk discounting the importance of the injuries.

[dplus47]

as for stroud, what is posted here as his side of the story is true, then he has a legitimate gripe. we'll find out when he's done playing, maybe...

[dplus47]

The Pats were 18-0 the Giants 13-6 yet the Giants still won the Superbowl, did the records determine the better team then? No!! So why does it determine the better team in other situations? It doesn't!

hey, i'm not trying to be an ass here, but didn't the giants have to actually beat the patriots before becoming better? you eventually have to beat the other guy on the field in order to prove you're better.

i'm not saying the phins can't do that this coming year, but until they do, your argument needs a different piece to support it.

[feelthepain]

hey, i'm not trying to be an ass here, but didn't the giants have to actually beat the patriots before becoming better? you eventually have to beat the other guy on the field in order to prove you're better.

i'm not saying the phins can't do that this coming year, but until they do, your argument needs a different piece to support it.

The point is, Bill fans are trying to justify their thinking of their favorite teams future from based on a 7-9 season and beating the Dolphins. Seroiusly, how can Bill fans think that adds up to getting better? Look at the whole picture, stats, records, wins and loses to good teams an bad teams. FA and the Bills FO doing as little as possible to get better. It's not just one or two things, it's everything combined. You don't see me promoting the Dolphins here while trashing the Bills, it's trying to understand the thinking of Bill fans and their justification for it.

[dplus47]

The point is, Bill fans are trying to justify their thinking of their favorite teams future from based on a 7-9 season and beating the Dolphins. Seroiusly, how can Bill fans think that adds up to getting better? Look at the whole picture, stats, records, wins and loses to good teams an bad teams. FA and the Bills FO doing as little as possible to get better. It's not just one or two things, it's everything combined. You don't see me promoting the Dolphins here while trashing the Bills, it's trying to understand the thinking of Bill fans and their justification for it.

i hear you, man. it's difficult to understand the thinking of fans, but that's one of the reasons why i'm into being a fan: i don't always want to understand what's going on with me, i just want to "be."

the bills have bragging rights right now, until the next time the phins beat 'em. it's been too long, if you ask me, but it'll be sweet when that day comes. til then, that's really the only measure of who is better: the last game. that's why the giants are the only team that can say they're better than last year's pats, right?

i can't wait for next season to start, because then all this offseason stuff will go away. until then, everybody's going to argue that their team got a lot better.

[justasportsfan]

The Pats were 18-0 the Giants 13-6 yet the Giants still won the Superbowl, did the records determine the better team then? No!! So why does it determine the better team in other situations? It doesn't!
Hilarious. Prior to every season you always question our moves implying they aren't gonna help us. Once the bills beat the snot out of the fins you always come up with "well that was last year" BS. LAst years record means nothing but the offensive and defensive stats do . :snicker:

[feelthepain]

Hilarious. Prior to every season you always question our moves implying they aren't gonna help us. Once the bills beat the snot out of the fins you always come up with "well that was last year" BS. LAst years record means nothing but the offensive and defensive stats do . :snicker:
Love how you think beating the Dolphins is some major accomplishment, it explains why it takes so little for you to believe your team is improving.

[Goobylal]

i don't have much problem with your post, but it strikes me as funny how important so many people think welker is. look at the super bowl for evidence of how important a slot receiver is. let wes welker have a career day on you. you'll win as long as you take care of your other business.

wes welker is a nice player, but he's a QB's safety valve. that's a luxury a team with a lot of holes can't afford. they got a starting C out of the deal, which, IMO, is something i'm glad the team saw as a higher priority.

also, yeah, the fins were winless with brown and green, but how many teams lose their starters at QB and RB and #1 WR and go on to have good seasons? granted, they traded their #1 WR--a move i wasn't that into--but by that point the season was over. the offense fell off a cliff at that point, never to return. as a p.s., brown was having a monster year when he went down.

keep in mind, i'm not trying to talk smack. 0-4 is 0-4, and you won't catch me trying to argue otherwise.

two things do tend to bother me about last year's phins team: all the talk about the welker trade being a "mistake," and all the talk discounting the importance of the injuries.
Welker was arguably Miami's best WR in 2006 and is just a great player who plays the game like it should be played. And the cost to put the 1st round tender on him was just $500K more. But even still, the Dols caved by agreeing to trade Welker for a 2nd rounder, when they should have fought tooth and nail against that illegal escalator-poison pill contract the Pats gave him.

And I agree that Ronnie Brown was having a monster season. But even still, his impact on Miami's record was minimal.

As for Green, I never thought he was a good addition period, so his injury was a non-factor IMHO.

[Goobylal]

The point is, Bill fans are trying to justify their thinking of their favorite teams future from based on a 7-9 season and beating the Dolphins. Seroiusly, how can Bill fans think that adds up to getting better? Look at the whole picture, stats, records, wins and loses to good teams an bad teams. FA and the Bills FO doing as little as possible to get better. It's not just one or two things, it's everything combined. You don't see me promoting the Dolphins here while trashing the Bills, it's trying to understand the thinking of Bill fans and their justification for it.
Uh no, sorry. We Bills fans don't think that beating Miami means anything other than it gives Miami fans NO reason to talk smack about our team. What we see hope in is our team going 7-9 despite major injuries, one of the toughest schedules, and having a young team and a rookie QB starting most of the season. Not to mention some good defensive pickups so far. Sure more needs to be done before they can be called contenders. But to claim that we shouldn't have any hope is preposterous.