automatic icing for next season?

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

SAN JOSE, Calif. - Minnesota defenceman Kurtis Foster's broken left leg is the latest gruesome reminder of the dangers of touch-up icing in the NHL.

Foster will miss the rest of the season, including the playoffs, after crashing hard into the boards Wednesday night during a race to the puck with San Jose rookie Torrey Mitchell. Foster had surgery Thursday to repair a displaced fracture in his femur, and a stabilizing rod was put into his leg.

Mitchell, who unintentionally touched and tripped Foster just enough to upset his balance, was trying to prevent an icing call against the Sharks by racing to touch the puck before Foster.

Some of these types of scrambles are mildly exciting, but Foster's injury is just the latest in a long line of nasty injuries caused by those mad dashes and quick stops. Despite nearly annual discussions in league meetings, including last month's general managers' meetings, the NHL still hasn't adopted no-touch icing, in which referees would stop play as soon as the puck crosses the goal-line.

"It's just one of those things that tells you there should be automatic icing, which I've been talking about for years," Sharks coach Ron Wilson said after the game. "But I guess that's a play that people - at least I've heard - that's what fans love to see, a big car wreck like that.

Wilson, Don Cherry and other like-minded hockey people have lobbied for years to institute no-touch icing, the same rule used in international play and several minor leagues.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid=357570&page=NewsPage&service=page

here's the play gruesome

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vRwAyABEVBE



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[JD]

Makes the game longer, sounds good.

[OpIv37]

knee jerk reaction to a freak accident on a routine play.

[hammerbillsfan]

knee jerk reaction to a freak accident on a routine play.

not the 1st time this has happened

[OpIv37]

not the 1st time this has happened

how many times have players been injured blocking shots? Or by a hard check? Should we eliminate shot blocking and body checks too? What about skates? There have been several scattered incidences of skates causing severe lacerations- should we switch to dull Saf-T-Skates?

In fact, why don't we just have the players play rod hockey instead and we can watch that. Of course, we'll need ergonomic rod handles to prevent carpal tunnel and specially designed gloves to prevent blisters.


Sarcasm aside-it's a contact sport, injuries happen. Think of the thousands- maybe millions- of times the puck has been iced with nothing happening. It's unreasonable to try to take every single play that could potentially cause an injury out of a contact sport.

[Dr. Lecter]

Who said to take every single play out?

A little over-dramatic?

What can be done is to remove the high risk plays that can easily result in serious injury. There is a reason there is not touch up icing in most other hockey leagues.

[hammerbillsfan]

:fit:

calm down there happy

i'm just saying maybe they should take another look at the rule
many other league have gone to no-touch icing

maybe look at this trial system the USHL is using
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/mckenzie/?id=232516


A year ago, the USHL was going through much the same sort of debate on touch vs. no-touch and it looked as though it was heading to the no-touch decision.

But Scott Brand, the USHL's director of hockey operations and referee-in-chief, is not a fan of no-touch icing and decided to try to come up with an alternative that would address the injury concern but maintain some puck races.

"To be honest," Brand said, "I love touch icing. I am not a big fan of no-touch icing. So I was highly motivated to see if we couldn't come up with an alternative, some sort of compromise to keep everyone happy."

And that is precisely what he did.

This season the USHL introduced a hybrid form of no-touch icing. It works likes this:
On any potential icing, the linesman has to make a decision by the time the first player or players are crossing an imaginary line that runs across the rink and right through the end-zone faceoff dots and hash marks, or around 25 feet from the end boards.

If the defending player is the first to hit the dots or hash marks, the linesman immediately blows the whistle for automatic no-touch icing. The player does not have to even retrieve the puck.
If the defending player and the attacking player are in a dead heat or a little too close to call, the linesman blows the whistle for icing. The two players on a collision course can immediately let up for the automatic icing.

If, however, the attacking player has any degree of advantage on the defending player, the linesman doesn't blow the whistle and allows the puck chase and potential battle to continue. Linesmen are encouraged to use good judgment. In other words, if a defender is at the dot but totally flat-footed and the attacker is in full stride ready to blow by him, the defender shouldn't necessarily get the benefit of the doubt. Play on.

[OpIv37]

Who said to take every single play out?

A little over-dramatic?

What can be done is to remove the high risk plays that can easily result in serious injury. There is a reason there is not touch up icing in most other hockey leagues.

IT"S NOT A HIGH RISK PLAY BECAUSE OF ONE OR EVEN A HANDFUL OF INJURIES. 99% of the time it occurs, nothing happens. Probably 80% of the time it occurs, there isn't even contact. If you look up the percentage of injuries caused by blocking shots or body checks, I guarantee it's much higher than those caused by touch-ups, but no one is talking about changing the rules to eliminate those plays.

People see one or two horrific injuries and go "that's dangerous", but completely forget that the overwhelming majority of hockey injuries do NOT occur on those plays, and the overwhelming majority of touch ups don't result in injuries.

[OpIv37]

:fit:

come down there happy

i'm just saying maybe they should take another look at the rule
many other league have gone to no-touch icing

maybe look at this trial system the USHL is using
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/mckenzie/?id=232516

you're not a Sabres fan so you probably don't care about this, but anything that relies on an official's subjective judgement with no objective criteria for evaluation invariably comes back to screw Buffalo.

See the last two minutes of the first half of the Music City Mirage game if you need an example. Buffalo wasn't granted a review on a questionable play, but a few minutes later, Tennessee WAS granted a review on a questionable play, and the end result was 3 points that was more than the difference in the game.

[hammerbillsfan]

why the **** are you bringing just Buffalo and football into this?

btw, NO ONE failed to mention this gift call you guys got a few weeks ago:
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&page=Recap&gameNumber=1000&season=20072008&gameType=2


Derek Roy was so wide-open, it didn't look right. As it turned out, he was an extra skater.

Roy and Jason Pominville (http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8469506) scored 18 seconds apart early in the third period to lift the Buffalo Sabres (http://sabres.nhl.com/) over the Philadelphia Flyers (http://flyers.nhl.com/) 5-2 on Tuesday night. Pominville and Maxim Afinogenov (http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8466202) each had two goals for the Sabres, who pulled within one point of the Flyers for the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference.

When Roy scored the decisive goal just 66 seconds into the third period, it seemed he took advantage of a costly mental lapse by Philly's defense. But Flyers coach John Stevens was furious after the game because Roy was the fifth skater during a 4-on-4. Replays clearly showed the Sabres already had four players on the ice when Roy hopped over the boards and skated to the Flyers' blue line.

[CuseJetsFan83]

they already tried this out in the AHL when the NHL was using us as guinea pigs.... it failed and made the game miserable.

kneejerk reaction is my diagnosis, but if they do auto-icing.... its just gonna turn a normal game into a 3 hour bore-athon

[JD]

You're right cuse, too many whistles already. Hockey is played on a relatively small playing field compared to other sports, thats why so many stoppages hurt this sport.

Injuries on icings are extremely rare. The only positive I see is that time isnt wasted as much with the whistle going right away. When a team ices it to kill off time for a win, it would give the trailing team another chance with more time on the clock. So I'm 50/50 with this rule in the end.

[Dr. Lecter]

you're not a Sabres fan so you probably don't care about this, but anything that relies on an official's subjective judgement with no objective criteria for evaluation invariably comes back to screw Buffalo.



Wah. Wah.

No it does not. Teams get screwed in sports and sometimes they are the benificary of said screwing.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Op... you look like a total jackass in this thread, just so you know.

[SabreEleven]

why the **** are you bringing just Buffalo and football into this?

btw, NO ONE failed to mention this gift call you guys got a few weeks ago:
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&page=Recap&gameNumber=1000&season=20072008&gameType=2

Buffalo Sports teams have so many calls go against them, it is about time we got one for us. Do you need a list?

[SabreEleven]

and that call was in a meaningless regular season game especially if the Sabres don't make the playoffs.

[hammerbillsfan]

and that call was in a meaningless regular season game especially if the Sabres don't make the playoffs.

it's not meaningless if the Sabres and Flyers flip flop places in the standings right now

[Typ0]

I'm all for anything that provides more actual hockey and less meaningless time killing whether the clock is running or not.

[OpIv37]

why the **** are you bringing just Buffalo and football into this?

btw, NO ONE failed to mention this gift call you guys got a few weeks ago:
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&page=Recap&gameNumber=1000&season=20072008&gameType=2

yet, you conveniently left out the early whistle and the non-penalty on Ovechkin that lead to a two-goal turnaround in the Washington game.

[OpIv37]

Op... you look like a total jackass in this thread, just so you know.

Wrong.

It's an overreaction to one type of play that OCCASIONALLY results in an injury. I'll repeat it: the majority of touch ups do NOT result in injuries and the majority of hockey injuries do NOT occur on touch up plays. There are plenty of other dangerous elements in the game that no one is talking about changing because it's a contact sport, so it has dangerous elements by definition.

The only reason people are talking about this is a knee jerk reaction to a recent injury. If you people can't see it, I can't help you.

And I've always been against giving refs more discretion in every sport. You can go search my old posts if you don't believe me.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Wrong.

It's an overreaction to one type of play that OCCASIONALLY results in an injury. I'll repeat it: the majority of touch ups do NOT result in injuries and the majority of hockey injuries do NOT occur on touch up plays. There are plenty of other dangerous elements in the game that no one is talking about changing because it's a contact sport, so it has dangerous elements by definition.

The only reason people are talking about this is a knee jerk reaction to a recent injury. If you people can't see it, I can't help you.

And I've always been against giving refs more discretion in every sport. You can go search my old posts if you don't believe me.

You ****ing crack me up. Can we change your name to stubborn mule? You know how many injuries will occure from No Touch Icing??? 0! But of course, you're always right, everybody else is wrong. Couldn't possibly ever be convinced otherwise.

[Philagape]

I'm all for this, but not because of injury. I've always hated touch-ups. Usually boring and they interrupt the flow of the game. Icing is illegal for a reason, and making it no-touch will be a greater deterrent.

[OpIv37]

You ****ing crack me up. Can we change your name to stubborn mule? You know how many injuries will occure from No Touch Icing??? 0! But of course, you're always right, everybody else is wrong. Couldn't possibly ever be convinced otherwise.

do you know how many injuries would result on blocked shots if blocked shots were made illegal? 0!

Eliminating a small number of injuries is not sufficient justification for changing the rules. If that's your only criteria, there are a million portions of the game that could be changed for that exact same reason.

You're talking about changing the rules for a play that rarely results in injuries, and your only reason is that it rarely results in injuries- yet, I'M the one being stubborn? The evidence is on my side here- the knee jerk reactionaries are on your side. You have no logic or numbers on your side- I do.

[BlackMetalNinja]

do you know how many injuries would result on blocked shots if blocked shots were made illegal? 0!

Eliminating a small number of injuries is not sufficient justification for changing the rules. If that's your only criteria, there are a million portions of the game that could be changed for that exact same reason.

You're talking about changing the rules for a play that rarely results in injuries, and your only reason is that it rarely results in injuries- yet, I'M the one being stubborn? The evidence is on my side here- the knee jerk reactionaries are on your side. You have no logic or numbers on your side- I do.

It's not my only reason, I agree with others here that chasing the puck is a waste of time. To use your examples, hardly ever does the offending team make it to the puck first and even if they do, even more rarely do they actually keep it. So what we have is a waste of several seconds every time it occurs while the D glides down the ice to touch up the puck. We could adopt the rule change, much like Olympic competition already does, and get rid of that much more wasted time every game plus get rid of unnecessary injuries.

Your argument about shot blocking is just silly, people are still obviously going to get hit by pucks whether it is illegal or not, resulting in injuries every year. People are not going to crash into the boards chasing down the puck to prevent icing if it's automatically blown dead when it crosses the line however.

[OpIv37]

It's not my only reason, I agree with others here that chasing the puck is a waste of time. To use your examples, hardly ever does the offending team make it to the puck first and even if they do, even more rarely do they actually keep it. So what we have is a waste of several seconds every time it occurs while the D glides down the ice to touch up the puck. We could adopt the rule change, much like Olympic competition already does, and get rid of that much more wasted time every game plus get rid of unnecessary injuries.

Your argument about shot blocking is just silly, people are still obviously going to get hit by pucks whether it is illegal or not, resulting in injuries every year. People are not going to crash into the boards chasing down the puck to prevent icing if it's automatically blown dead when it crosses the line however.

the major flaw in your argument is that 99% of the time they don't crash into the boards on the touch up anyway.

And if this isn't reactionary, why wasn't anyone except Don Cherry talking about this BEFORE the injury to Foster?

[BlackMetalNinja]

Way to ignore 90% of my argument :up:

[OpIv37]

Way to ignore 90% of my argument :up:

until you explain why you didn't care until Foster's injury, your argument is still reactionary.

All of this talk came about post-injury- it had nothing to do with wasting time during games.

[BlackMetalNinja]

until you explain why you didn't care until Foster's injury, your argument is still reactionary.

All of this talk came about post-injury- it had nothing to do with wasting time during games.

I didn't even watch the stupid video man, I still haven't seen what happened. I don't need to see one incident to understand what goes on, I've seen it multiple times before. I'm mentioning it now because this thread brought the issue up. Did I miss the NHL Rules and Regulation Subforum where we regularly talk about possible rules changes somewhere?

[CuseJetsFan83]

I didn't even watch the stupid video man, I still haven't seen what happened. I don't need to see one incident to understand what goes on, I've seen it multiple times before. I'm mentioning it now because this thread brought the issue up. Did I miss the NHL Rules and Regulation Subforum where we regularly talk about possible rules changes somewhere?

they've experimented with it in the minors and it absolutely is horrible for the game.... caused numerous problems based on judgement calls if the linesmen are too slow to get their asses down the ice

[JD]

Holy hell, BMN got the last word :shocked: