I think the Bills might take DE Derrick Harvey with the first pick (11th).....

[Mitchy moo]

I think we might snag Harvey and move back up into the first round to grab a WR who we like. It really makes no sense to draft a WR early with the amount of them that are available and we can just about the same thing out of a late 1st round WR or a early second.

Giving ourselves a talented guy like this gives a chance to really nail down our Defense and raising the bar as per the bottom of the barrell our D has been at for years.

Here is some info on the guy, let me know what you think:

http://www.gatorsports.com/article/20080318/NEWS/800766554/1016/GATORS01

[Bone]

I say we give it a year and see how our ends do now the a force inside.

[jamze132]

I really hope we don't draft a DE on day 1.

Our scouts need to work overtime to pick the best WR at #11.

[YardRat]

I'd be surprised if we went DE before the third round at the earliest, and disappointed if we use two picks to trade up to get one WR when the odds are in our favor somebody decent is going to be there for us in the second round anyway, if we have to wait that long.

Trading down is a different story, and that makes more sense IMO.

[clumping platelets]

I would like to see a speedy pass rushing DE added but likely on day two of the draft

[Yasgur's Farm]

Where not gonna fill our most pressing needs (WR, TE, CB, WRII) by trading up... Trading down is the answer.

[don137]

I think Harvey might be available at 11 and other teams may want to trade up with Buffalo to get him.

[acehole]

We really are missing our B Smith to this puzzle and I have seen his name before when reading about the Bills first pick....however we cant pay that kind of money to a roll player......

I dont mind the traDE BACK UP....



I think we might snag Harvey and move back up into the first round to grab a WR who we like. It really makes no sense to draft a WR early with the amount of them that are available and we can just about the same thing out of a late 1st round WR or a early second.

Giving ourselves a talented guy like this gives a chance to really nail down our Defense and raising the bar as per the bottom of the barrell our D has been at for years.

Here is some info on the guy, let me know what you think:

http://www.gatorsports.com/article/20080318/NEWS/800766554/1016/GATORS01

[Goobylal]

I would like to see a speedy pass rushing DE added but likely on day two of the draft
I'd like Harvey because as the Giants proved, a great pass rush beats ANY offense. But if it doesn't happen, there's a guy named Brian Johnston from Garner-Webb who looks intriguing.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=68159

He's 6'5" 274#, runs a 4.66 40 and has a 35" VJ.

[Mitchy moo]

We really are missing our B Smith to this puzzle and I have seen his name before when reading about the Bills first pick....however we cant pay that kind of money to a roll player......

I dont mind the traDE BACK UP....


This kid would be sitting on every QB's head we play, all game long.

[coastal]

Hearing Derrick Harvey's name in the 11 spot would be absolutely awesome.

We then could use the next 3 picks on the offensive side of the ball...

2.) Andre Caldwell
3.) Kellen Davis
4.) Adarius Bowman

[coastal]

I think Harvey might be available at 11 and other teams may want to trade up with Buffalo to get him.I agree.

Minnesota is a prime candidate for trading up from the 17 spot.

That would leave the Bills with a better "value" selection at WR and the likely addition of another 3rd rounder.

[Dr. Lecter]

I agree.

Minnesota is a prime candidate for trading up from the 17 spot.

That would leave the Bills with a better "value" selection at WR and the likely addition of another 3rd rounder.

Or throw JP in as well and try to get their 2nd and maybe a 5th or so.

[coastal]

I would not be suprised to see Lee and JP packaged still.

[Saratoga Slim]

I agree.

Minnesota is a prime candidate for trading up from the 17 spot.

That would leave the Bills with a better "value" selection at WR and the likely addition of another 3rd rounder.

Harvey will be there at 11.

Trading down to the 15-18 range would be absolutely ideal for us. We'll get another day one pick, and definately have either (or possibly even all) of Kelly, Sweed and Thomas to pick from.

That would be a great scenario in my book.

[PECKERWOOD]

I agree.

Minnesota is a prime candidate for trading up from the 17 spot.

That would leave the Bills with a better "value" selection at WR and the likely addition of another 3rd rounder.

Good thought, I could see that happening too.

[Saratoga Slim]

Or throw JP in as well and try to get their 2nd and maybe a 5th or so.

Though that leaves us with the task of finding a decent backup QB. All things considered, i'd lean toward keeping JP I think. I really don't think he's a guy that's going to cause locker room problems--he knows he's not going to be in Buffalo in 2009, and he's smart enough to know that if we keep him for 2008, his future value is best served by being as much of a team player as possible. That sounds a bit idealistic perhaps, but I really don't worry about JP in this regard.

[Mitchy moo]

Harvey would help us kill Brady, that's all I think about come gameday versus the pats. How do we beat the pats?? Brady face down in the dirt, looking for his mouthpiece.

Crush Brady's head, does anything else matter??

[DraftBoy]

Harvey would help us kill Brady, that's all I think about come gameday versus the pats. How do we beat the pats?? Brady face down in the dirt, looking for his mouthpiece.

Crush Brady's head, does anything else matter??

Super Bowl would be nice...

[eyedog]

Of course Harvey is the best pick. Until you can beat New Eng. you are not going anywhere, and the best why to beat them is get to Brady.
They can get a receiver in the 2nd.

[Mitchy moo]

Of course Harvey is the best pick. Until you can beat New Eng. you are not going anywhere, and the best why to beat them is get to Brady.
They can get a receiver in the 2nd.

We're on the same page.

[Oaf]

I'm thinking DE because


A consistent pass rush automatically improves our secondary. We may not even have to take a corner if we go DE round one.
Kelsay, Denney are coming off serious injuries
Our 3 DEs are more effective in a rotation anyways, guaranteeing a blue clip DE plenty of snaps. Harvey would probably supplant Denney as #3 from the start anyways.
The talent after the top four (Long, Ghol, Harvey, Merling) drop considerably (to Groves, Jason Jones, etc.) If we want a immediate threat at the D-End spot, it'll have to come right away.
Not saying WR is less of a need, it's actually probably more, even with question marks on the top 3 WRs. But I believe a DE 1st rounder FINALLY makes this defense fully playoff-caliber especially when you consider the impact on our secondary. Ideally, I would like to go DE first, then I would like to trade up in the 2nd (using our 3rd which I would have used for a CB, but already addressed implicitly through DE) and ensure we get James Hardy, the last week 1 starting caliber WR, except perhaps Jordy Nelson. Then, with the two 4ths, address TE and then the offensive line. I think this takes care of


Awful Pass rush
#2 WR
Implicit help for secondary
TE prospect
OLine depth or push for Fowler
I guess I'm just worried about the top WRs in the class in terms of both value at 11 and their ability to start immediately. My opinion at DE is that we'd be average even if Kelsay and Denney are %100. We saw what the Giants can do to Tom Brady with a effective DLine rotation and I'm also not convinced S Johnson will be any more than Jason Jefferson at DE. I still maintain that a 1st round DE would be the final piece to a potential playoff defense. (That, plus Poz and Whitner's development)


In terms of BPA, I think most would agree that Harvey would be slightly to moderately ahead of the top 3 WRs. In any case, any scenario landing us Harvey and Hardy would make me extremely happy.
I rank the WR options like this:


Sweed at 11
Hardy in the 2nd
Hardy with 2nd/3rd trade up
Nelson in the 3rd
Kelly at 11 (well, we see come April 9th)
Thomas at 11
Obviously we need to come away with a starter there, some TE help, and hopefully a C, along with DE. If we go Harvey, we still have a great shot at getting either my 2nd or 3rd best choice for WR. (Which is obviously subjective, but I'll bet the Bills have a similar scenario ranking)

If the Bills feel that a situational prospect at DE is more of what they really need, I'd love to see Sweed at 11. Or if Kelly wows April 9th, that's fine by me. Just call me Anti-CB-in-the-1st.

[methos4ever]

For those interested in Mr. Harvey, here's a sick stat courtesy of NFLDraftScout:

"On 47 running plays directed into his area, the opposition was held to minus 28 yards (-0.6 avg), as he did not allow a rushing first down until the Capital One Bowl (gave up three vs. Michigan)…"

Wow.

[Kenny]

While I'd love to pick Harvey and move this defense from respectable to possibly great, I just dont think the front office has the balls to do it.

[Mahdi]

I would love to pick Harvey but also worried about what that leaves us with at WR. If we can take harvey then trade back up into Dallas' pick and grab one of Kelly, Thomas, Sweed then that would be great. Other than that though our need at WR is massive and needs to be addressed with a top end talent, not a project.

Another option is to grab Kelly or Thomas at 11 then grab Cliff Avril in the 2nd and Bennett or Carlson in the 3rd.

[tampabay25690]

I WOULD LOVE to see HARVEY in a BILLS uniform!!!!!!!!

GO GATORS...

[Mitchy moo]

Thank god Kipers brought this up, now the Bills might have to do something different.
:candle:

[Mahdi]

Kiper goes with DE Harvey for Bills in mock
April 2, 2008 Posted By: Chris Brown | Time: 4:56 PM ET | Link


KIPER GOES WITH DE HARVEY FOR BILLS IN LATEST MOCK: ESPN's Mel Kiper is going with Florida DE Derrick Harvey for Buffalo with the 11th pick in the draft. The junior eligible is arguably the best all-around defensive end in terms of being able to defend the run and rush the passer. Widely considered the third best DE in the class behind Long and Gholston he could go anywhere from 11-18 in round one, but is not expected to last past 20.

I like that of the 47 run plays run at him opponents actually lost yardage. He also has leadership intangibles as he was a defensive captain as a junior and had 20.5 sacks in just 18 career starts so he can produce despite just clocking in a 4.84 in the 40. At 6'5" 271 he probably projects to a left defensive end.

Coincidentally we have our DE draft preview package up on the home page right now in which Harvey is featured as one of the top 5 DEs if you want to see some highlights of his play.

------------------------------------------------
DB where do you get the idea that Harvey is bad against the run? Turns out he's pretty good against the run. Not to mention the fact that Florida was 10th in the Nation against the run.

[DraftBoy]

Kiper goes with DE Harvey for Bills in mock
April 2, 2008 Posted By: Chris Brown | Time: 4:56 PM ET | Link


KIPER GOES WITH DE HARVEY FOR BILLS IN LATEST MOCK: ESPN's Mel Kiper is going with Florida DE Derrick Harvey for Buffalo with the 11th pick in the draft. The junior eligible is arguably the best all-around defensive end in terms of being able to defend the run and rush the passer. Widely considered the third best DE in the class behind Long and Gholston he could go anywhere from 11-18 in round one, but is not expected to last past 20.

I like that of the 47 run plays run at him opponents actually lost yardage. He also has leadership intangibles as he was a defensive captain as a junior and had 20.5 sacks in just 18 career starts so he can produce despite just clocking in a 4.84 in the 40. At 6'5" 271 he probably projects to a left defensive end.

Coincidentally we have our DE draft preview package up on the home page right now in which Harvey is featured as one of the top 5 DEs if you want to see some highlights of his play.

------------------------------------------------
DB where do you get the idea that Harvey is bad against the run? Turns out he's pretty good against the run. Not to mention the fact that Florida was 10th in the Nation against the run.


Ive seen the stat, and alot of that is when he beats the tackle to the outside or gets them leaning and uses his ability to change directions back inside. If you think thats happening on the next level you're nuts. He is certainly not as bad against the run as Kelsay or Schoebel are but he's not Phillip Merling.

[Mahdi]

Ive seen the stat, and alot of that is when he beats the tackle to the outside or gets them leaning and uses his ability to change directions back inside. If you think thats happening on the next level you're nuts. He is certainly not as bad against the run as Kelsay or Schoebel are but he's not Phillip Merling.
Ok then... So at the end of the day Harvey is a better pass rusher but still decent against the run at worst,,,and Merling is great against the run and a decent pass rusher...

Who would you rather have? who is more valuable to a defense?

[DraftBoy]

Ok then... So at the end of the day Harvey is a better pass rusher but still decent against the run at worst,,,and Merling is great against the run and a decent pass rusher...

Who would you rather have? who is more valuable to a defense?

Merling in a land slide

[Mahdi]

Merling in a land slide
Of course you're entitled to your opinon... However it seems that most scouts, mocks, GMs, coaches etc believe that Harvey is the better prospect. Merling is not even in the Top 15 discussion.

[DraftBoy]

Of course you're entitled to your opinon... However it seems that most scouts, mocks, GMs, coaches etc believe that Harvey is the better prospect. Merling is not even in the Top 15 discussion.


Lets be accurate here; that most mocks believe Harvey is the better prospect. Neither you nor I have any idea what any real draft boards look like.

[Mahdi]

Lets be accurate here; that most mocks believe Harvey is the better prospect. Neither you nor I have any idea what any real draft boards look like.
Its a little more than just mocks... sure we dont have solid info about draft boards but Harvey is certainly getting most of the attention as one of the premier pass rushers and DEs in this draft. There is a reason that DE needy teams like Jacksonville and Carolina are interested in Harvey. And sure you could say its posturing, and if it is posturing then it still proves how highly he is thought of. You posture with players that other teams believe you could actually select.


In other words I havent heard much about how great a pro day Merling had, or how dominant he was over his career. He's simply not being considered. His stock is also falling is it not? Injuries and all....

[DraftBoy]

Its a little more than just mocks... sure we dont have solid info about draft boards but Harvey is certainly getting most of the attention as one of the premier pass rushers and DEs in this draft. There is a reason that DE needy teams like Jacksonville and Carolina are interested in Harvey. And sure you could say its posturing, and if it is posturing then it still proves how highly he is thought of. You posture with players that other teams believe you could actually select.


In other words I havent heard much about how great a pro day Merling had, or how dominant he was over his career. He's simply not being considered. His stock is also falling is it not? Injuries and all....

His stock is steady and just because a guy is getting PR doesnt mean he's going to be a star or even a better player. Like I said I like Merling more for what the Bills need, not Harvey.

That being said if they take Harvey, Im not going to be upset either.

[Mahdi]

His stock is steady and just because a guy is getting PR doesnt mean he's going to be a star or even a better player. Like I said I like Merling more for what the Bills need, not Harvey.

That being said if they take Harvey, Im not going to be upset either.
I dont get what it is you believe the Bills need.... Do you not agree that our pass rush needs serious upgrading? And if you have the chance to add an elite draft prospect who's specialty is rushing the passer do you not add him?

And as far as these 2 players go as draft prospects Harvey is the MUCH better pass rusher, no question about it. Harvey had 20.5 sacks over his 18 starts while I think Merling has something like 12.

Also I think we can look past the idea that Harvey is weak against the run because he's not. As the stats say opponents gained negative yardage running at him and overall Florida had a top 5 run D, he must have had something to do with that.

That being said.... I dont get why you insist on Merling as a better prospect than Harvey if we all know Harvey is the better pass rusher and if not equal as run defenders, close to it. Harvey isn't small either, he's 270 so its not unfathomable that he can hold up against ther run.


Do you have some other reason why Merling is better? I would like to know just for my own information... Im not going to pretend I know everything about every player so please share what else about Merling makes him a more attractive prospect.

The way im seeing it now:

Pass Rusher: Harvey by a lot

Run Defender: Merling by little to none.

Injury: Harvey (Merling has serious hernia issues)

Would you not agree with that assessment?

[DraftBoy]

I dont get what it is you believe the Bills need.... Do you not agree that our pass rush needs serious upgrading? And if you have the chance to add an elite draft prospect who's specialty is rushing the passer do you not add him?

And as far as these 2 players go as draft prospects Harvey is the MUCH better pass rusher, no question about it. Harvey had 20.5 sacks over his 18 starts while I think Merling has something like 12.

Also I think we can look past the idea that Harvey is weak against the run because he's not. As the stats say opponents gained negative yardage running at him and overall Florida had a top 5 run D, he must have had something to do with that.

That being said.... I dont get why you insist on Merling as a better prospect than Harvey if we all know Harvey is the better pass rusher and if not equal as run defenders, close to it. Harvey isn't small either, he's 270 so its not unfathomable that he can hold up against ther run.


Do you have some other reason why Merling is better? I would like to know just for my own information... Im not going to pretend I know everything about every player so please share what else about Merling makes him a more attractive prospect.

The way im seeing it now:

Pass Rusher: Harvey by a lot

Run Defender: Merling by little to none.

Injury: Harvey (Merling has serious hernia issues)

Would you not agree with that assessment?

What I dont agree with is your assessment of either player. You ignore that Harvey played at 250 in school and when bulked up to 270 he lost speed, he a ran a 4.8 40 and while thats not slow, it does say he may have lost the explosiveness he had in college, but you dont choose to acknowledge that.

You also dont take into account that this was Merling's first year as a starter but Harvey's second so the career stats are of course going to be skewed. However when looking at this year Merling had more tackles, 1 less TFL, and 1.5 less sacks and was getting used to being the starter. But that also isnt taken into account.

Harvey is without a doubt the better pass rusher but I think his difference in skill in pass rushing is about as vast as Merling's difference in skill in run defense, especially if Harvey can't play at 270 with the same kind of explosiveness. Which we dont know.

Merling does need to prove his hernia is ok, but with the surgery he had, he should be fine, so Im not too worried about that.

I like Merling more, but Ive repeated at least three times now I dont mind picking Harvey I just like Merling more based on his skills, what they bring to the team and what kind of pick we'd have to give up to get him.