Debate #2 Open Thread

[DraftBoy]

The idea here is to keep the actual debate threads clean so that they candidates are the only ones posting in them. So with all three answers now posted and some rebutted, if you have a comment lets hear them here!


The Questions:


* As Zone President, what specific things would you do to encourage more posters to donate to the site?
* What specific things would you do to improve the No TOS Zone so that people enjoy it more?
* Would you make any changes to the features now offered to donors?

The Answers:


1. I think the biggest thing that could be done is to raise the overall standard of the zone so that members take pride in it and want to donate no matter what is offered as a perk. I think the way to do this is to crack down on trolls and spammers, and be vigilant in dealing with personal attacks. There was a time when you could post your opionion and you could debate it without being called names. We need to work to bring that atmosphere back.

2. Making the no TOS zone better is trickier. I don't believe in exclusive content because it leaves out a majority of the members. The only thing change that I would make in the no-tos is to maybe preview articles, etc. a day or too before they are sent to the main forums.

3. I feel that it wouldn't hurt to have more incentives to donating . I am against exclusive content, but perhaps we could offer a zonebuck bonus for each level of donation, maybe increased rep ability something like that. I know that it seemed like the tshirts, key chains and other premiums were pretty popular, perhaps it is time to bring them back. Other things that would not cost anything would be to bring back the zone lottery and give members a free ticket each month.

What I think it all boils down to is taking pride in the website that provides us with so much information, entertainment, and distraction from our real lives. We should be encouraging people to think about donating in those terms, however I don't wish for those that may not have the disposable income to punished for not doing so by limiting access to Bills information.



* As Zone President, what specific things would you do to encourage more posters to donate to the site?

This is a good question Being that I am a C.F.O of a multi-million dollar construction company, I am sure I could analyze the Billszone Financial records and come up with many suggestions to the staff.

First I would look at the amount of donating members and see what the average donation is. Once that is determined rather than have levels of donation have 1 level of donations to be a member. This could be paid monthly or if you pay for a year that would be the monthly rate x 11 so you would get a month free.
Also, if someone would like to donate more than the monthly or annual amount, I would have an option for a one time gift. Let’s say that someone wanted to donate $1,000 to the site, they could do this as a one time gift and get a years worth of access to the No-Tos as well as a thank you gift from the Zone.

Also, for first time donors they could check out the benefits for being a Zoner for $1, and then have the option of becoming a regular monthly or annual donor.
Another thing that could be done is to add a sticky bulletin to the top of each forum each week that state if you are not a donor here is what you missed this week. In it include all the benefits of being a donor along with some of the items I propose in the next answer.

I also believe that based on the financial information reviewed, I would look into marketing the zone with a thank you for donating gift, something small but with the Billszone Logo as was done in the past. I still have the keychain I received when I first donated and believe that was a classy touch, this may still be happening but if it isn’t I would look into the feasibility of reinstating it or adding more products to the welcome to donation gift.

* What specific things would you do to improve the No TOS Zone so that people enjoy it more?


There is something I believe that could not only make the No Tos better, but also discover new talent and utilize the talent we have already here on the Zone.
In the No-Tos, spurred on from this Election, have a Debate topic of the day. In the Off Season topics could include, The Draft, Free Agency, Politics, Social Topic of the Day, which woman is more beautiful, etc etc.

Here is how this would work similar to this style of debate two donors would volunteer to debate a topic with specific questions to answer, and then there would be a public vote after two rebuttals from each debater. There would be a public poll posted and to avoid the winner being the most popular zoner rather than the actual winner of the debate, the Moderator of the debate has a vote and an Admin of the site has a vote. Whoever has a majority with public counting as 1, Moderator as 1 and Admin as 1, will have an opportunity to write an article on the topic that will be posted on the front page.

Then in the aforementioned weekly sticky if you are not a donor this is what you missed, you could include excerpts of the debate as a benefit of being a member. The winner each week would go on until they lose.

I believe since this is a message board and part of the greatness of a message board is the spirit of exchange of ideas and intelligent debate this was spurn that on and also would provide the Zone with more great writers.

This type of contest would also spur on more people to donate if they have aspirations of writing for the site, or just writing aspirations in general. I also believe that if people read and see the proper ways to debate a topic it will inspire them to be more informed and better posters with less personal attacks when discussing a topic in the main forum.

* Would you make any changes to the features now offered to donors?


Being a donor is appreciating something so much that you give of your hard earned money to show that appreciation. I believe that this site offers so much to every member that there does not need to be any added benefit to just donors.

I believe when someone decides to donate to the site they are not looking for extra features that non donors have, I believe they are giving back to a community that has given so much to them in terms of information, laughter, friendships and a release from their everyday grind.



As it stands right now I think the Twilight Zoners are probably the heaviest in terms of active donors. The reason being there is a direct benefit to them, a zone where they can rant and rave and in some cases still be private. There is no question that the main forum carries the Zone, but where is the direct benefit to those who just want to talk Bills football? I propose we develop a Bills forum in the No Tos specifically for Bills football talk, we promote it as such a place where you can talk about Bills Football Uncensored! The Bills forum is a giant resource and there is a lot more room for growth of donors there. I think anytime a news story breaks on WGR it would be worth while to note that donors have access to the online feed via Zone Radio, I’d be willing to be a lot of posters don’t know we have that option.


I personally have been brainstorming different ideas and games to bring to the No Tos. Oddly enough the ability to curse doesn’t really help in the development of new games. However thanks to the inspiration of YardRat, I will debut inside the Zoners Studio this Friday along with our second installment of the Zone Gossip Game.


I have thought quite a while as to how to make donating more worth while. I personally donate because my day would be lost without this place. The Zone is my home away from home. But how about implementing some kind of Zoner Rewards program where referrals to new posters can earn you points which can then in time can get you a little taste of the No Tos? This would help expand growth to the Zone plus give posters a little playtime in the donor forums hoping they get hooked. It’s a win-win situation. Finally, I think its important to make sure people know how important their donations are, this place is not cheap to run. And it really does run off the generosity of the zoners and the hard work of the Admin/Mod team.

[DraftBoy]

Ill start by saying that I think all the candidates gave good answers on this question and really addressed the whole question this time. :bf1:

[RockStar36]

I thought all the answers were done well this time as well.

I personally think that if the main focus is cleaning up the BZ, the donations will follow.

[DraftBoy]

I thought all the answers were done well this time as well.

I personally think that if the main focus is cleaning up the BZ, the donations will follow.
I think we also need to bring in new members and if that means more diversity Im certainly not against that. I think we have the staff and membership base to be the best football site on the net, we just need to get our name out there more.

[BlackMetalNinja]

DB would it be possible to quote the 3 answers as well as the question in your first post in this thread to help keep people on topic? I know that makes for a very long post... but I think it'd be helpful.

[DraftBoy]

DB would it be possible to quote the 3 answers as well as the question in your first post in this thread to help keep people on topic? I know that makes for a very long post... but I think it'd be helpful.

yea no problem Ill add it now

and done!

[The King]

I cant reply to Playas reply because thats against the rules. But when he was talkin about looking into the Zones books, I truely feel that is beyond what the Pres will be doing here at the zone. Plus from what I imagine I would say the Billszone is in the black and is actually making money.

[BlackMetalNinja]

yea no problem Ill add it now

and done!

Thank you sir!

[DraftBoy]

I cant reply to Playas reply because thats against the rules. But when he was talkin about looking into the Zones books, I truely feel that is beyond what the Pres will be doing here at the zone. Plus from what I imagine I would say the Billszone is in the black and is actually making money.

I believe and Ill need another staff member to correct me on this but we dont make any money as a site. Everything we make I believe goes straight to our operating costs, we are a revenue neutral operation. But Im not 100% sure NBF and Eb would know better than I would on that.

[The King]

I believe and Ill need another staff member to correct me on this but we dont make any money as a site. Everything we make I believe goes straight to our operating costs, we are a revenue neutral operation. But Im not 100% sure NBF and Eb would know better than I would on that.

Im not saying anyone pockets money by any means but I think in terms of donors we are doing well.

[Devin]

I believe and Ill need another staff member to correct me on this but we dont make any money as a site. Everything we make I believe goes straight to our operating costs, we are a revenue neutral operation. But Im not 100% sure NBF and Eb would know better than I would on that.

youre correct.

[Gunzlingr]

I cant reply to Playas reply because thats against the rules. But when he was talkin about looking into the Zones books, I truely feel that is beyond what the Pres will be doing here at the zone. Plus from what I imagine I would say the Billszone is in the black and is actually making money.

I agree 100%.

As for the answers, I also feel that all 3 of us are on the same page - with the exception of Playa's examination of the books.

[DraftBoy]

Im not saying anyone pockets money by any means but I think in terms of donors we are doing well.

Oh I know what you're saying, and I didnt think you were saying that, Im just saying that everything we make, we send towards our operating costs. We dont keep any money on hand in a BZ bank account or something like that.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I'll agree that everybody for the most part did a good job answering the questions at hand.

Piggy backing off of Bedard's point about having a specific Bills talk section of the No-TOS, I think this could be great. I've heard others mention that Fin Heaven has something along these lines already and that it's known there that if you want the real good, serious, people who know what they're talking about and aren't just looking for a fight discussions, that's where you go. I think we could pull the same off here. Lure some of our better Billszone posters in there to have some great Bills discussions and give the general board snippets of the talk in there, enticing them to subscribe.

Additionally, I think one big issue we have is that most people currently see donating as a way to gain access to the No-TOS forum. I think we could put more emphasis on the other benefits of being a donor, and most importantly as Bedard mentioned, the fact that this place exists in main part because of donations.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Oh I know what you're saying, and I didnt think you were saying that, Im just saying that everything we make, we send towards our operating costs. We dont keep any money on hand in a BZ bank account or something like that.
This goes to the point of adding the expenditure of giving out gifts to donors. It's another added expense, and while it may not be a whole lot, it's something. Most of us aren't looking for gifts, we're looking for things that make this place even better than it already is (honestly, many of us that donate just want to give back to this place for being a sort of virtual home away from home). I think the money that Playa wants to spend on these gifts could be better spent elsewhere personally.

[Michael82]

I think we also need to bring in new members and if that means more diversity Im certainly not against that. I think we have the staff and membership base to be the best football site on the net, we just need to get our name out there more.
Another key thng that we need before the members start flowing in is a couple more solid writers. We lack a bit on the original content and that ALWAYS draws people to the site. I'll admit that I myself slacked off this year, but if we can add a few more writers to the stable for gameday articles, postgame articles, and weekly columns, then we will see the traffic increase for sure IMO.

[DraftBoy]

I'll agree that everybody for the most part did a good job answering the questions at hand.

Piggy backing off of Bedard's point about having a specific Bills talk section of the No-TOS, I think this could be great. I've heard others mention that Fin Heaven has something along these lines already and that it's known there that if you want the real good, serious, people who know what they're talking about and aren't just looking for a fight discussions, that's where you go. I think we could pull the same off here. Lure some of our better Billszone posters in there to have some great Bills discussions and give the general board snippets of the talk in there, enticing them to subscribe.

Additionally, I think one big issue we have is that most people currently see donating as a way to gain access to the No-TOS forum. I think we could put more emphasis on the other benefits of being a donor, and most importantly as Bedard mentioned, the fact that this place exists in main part because of donations.

See I have a huge issue with a Bills Donor zone because of what happened at FH. Its donors board was a great place to talk shop but the regular board became pretty much crap and when the regular board is the first thing a potential new member sees, thats not a good impression. Either that or you run the risk of having a Donor Bills board where there is No-Tos and its essentially a huge smack zone but of Bills fans v. Bills fans.

[Devin]

I'll agree that everybody for the most part did a good job answering the questions at hand.

Piggy backing off of Bedard's point about having a specific Bills talk section of the No-TOS, I think this could be great. I've heard others mention that Fin Heaven has something along these lines already and that it's known there that if you want the real good, serious, people who know what they're talking about and aren't just looking for a fight discussions, that's where you go. I think we could pull the same off here. Lure some of our better Billszone posters in there to have some great Bills discussions and give the general board snippets of the talk in there, enticing them to subscribe.

Additionally, I think one big issue we have is that most people currently see donating as a way to gain access to the No-TOS forum. I think we could put more emphasis on the other benefits of being a donor, and most importantly as Bedard mentioned, the fact that this place exists in main part because of donations.

I think everyone is pretty well aware that donations keep this place going.

As far as a no-tos BZ this has been killed countless times. The fear in general, and I am saying in general but there are plenty of reasons, is that all you are doing is diverting traffic away from the Bills forums.

While donations are great this site is not a "pay to play" site. Bills fans, or any football fan for that matter, should not have to pay to get good football talk. We as a staff, and imo for the most part we do a great job, simply must stay on top of that main forum.

Lets not get it twisted, while no-tos and TZ....etc are all a lot of fun we are a Bills football fan site. Bills football talk will always come first. A lot of time was spent developing the NFL forums, the draft forums....etc.

Subdividing furthur and adding in basically "uncensored Bills talk" may add a few donations here and there, but ultimatley you will just be taking donors out the main forum.

[RockStar36]

I think there should be a little incentive or gift for donating. No-TOS isn't really all it's cracked up to be IMO. The point should be stressed that without donations the site will crash and burn. There could be a little side benefit to Zone outings for donations. Like when we paid the cover at Brunners, have an extra dollar or two go towards Zone donations.

I also think Playa looking into the books is a ludicrious idea.

[DraftBoy]

I am curious to know why looking at how the donations are coming in, or where they are coming from is such a bad idea exactly? This was Playa's own idea and Im not sold on it either way, but I am curious why some think its such a bad idea. What are the reasons behind it?

[BlackMetalNinja]

See I have a huge issue with a Bills Donor zone because of what happened at FH. Its donors board was a great place to talk shop but the regular board became pretty much crap and when the regular board is the first thing a potential new member sees, thats not a good impression. Either that or you run the risk of having a Donor Bills board where there is No-Tos and its essentially a huge smack zone but of Bills fans v. Bills fans.

Valid point, I'm just searching for things that would draw people's interest, and I don't think Playa's idea of having debates in the No-TOS is going to do that in the least. There is more than enough free debating going on all over this place already.

[RockStar36]

Because I got the impression in his reponse that he will be able to look at the books and make the site more money, or something to that effect. I don't think it would really work that way. It seemed like it was more of an excuse to throw out that he has a fancy title for some company.

[The King]

I am curious to know why looking at how the donations are coming in, or where they are coming from is such a bad idea exactly? This was Playa's own idea and Im not sold on it either way, but I am curious why some think its such a bad idea. What are the reasons behind it?

He is ambitious no doubt, and he has the best intentions.
I think having a temporary MOD walking in and looking at the books is just a bit much. The zone has had a team in place that handles this sort of thing. I think having the new guy in off the street looking at the books is just a bit much.

As I have mentioned I truly think the Presidential Position is going to be highly monitored. I am fine with that I just want to get in the ring and throw around ideas with the Big Dogs.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I am curious to know why looking at how the donations are coming in, or where they are coming from is such a bad idea exactly? This was Playa's own idea and Im not sold on it either way, but I am curious why some think its such a bad idea. What are the reasons behind it?
Of the current staff... that being mods/admins, how many of them have the ability to, or have actually done so rather? It didn't seem like it was a common place activitiy for all the staff to know the financial #s behind what is essentially a privately owned board. Yet Playa is going to come in as a Day 1 Mod and have access to all that?

[RockStar36]

To back up BMN, I know about the Zones finances about as much as I know about quantum physics.

[The King]

Of the current staff... that being mods/admins, how many of them have the ability to, or have actually done so rather? It didn't seem like it was a common place activitiy for all the staff to know the financial #s behind what is essentially a privately owned board.

I do feel the same way but lets keep this discussion productive. Playa was trying to put his skills into action. The idea is great, the execution is tricky.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I do feel the same way but lets keep this discussion productive. Playa was trying to put his skills into action. The idea is great, the execution is tricky.

I'm not trying to dig into anyone here, I just honestly am not sure why he thinks he'll have more authority than those that have been around and likely don't know much about the numbers himself. I'm sure his intentions are nothing but the best and that he is trying to use the skills from his daily job to good benefit here.

[chernobylwraiths]

If it is a privately owned zite, that kind of information should be kept private. I don't believe anyone is getting rich off the site (which I understand is NOT the intention of looking at the books) so I don't see how knowing how much it costs to run the site and how much the site gets in donations will have any bearing on how to improve the No TOS or how to get more people to donate.

I like the gift ideas. Maybe there could be a zone "store" where for a slight markup a t-shirt or keychain or bumper sticker or refrigerator magnet could be purchased. I think something like that was done in the past, but not to this degree. Cost/feasability would have to be looked into.

We have such a great community here at the BillsZone and many of its members might like to help but don't feel that they could write articles. How about some of our members (like mybills or redeye for instance) come up with billszone related art to sell in the store or maybe for an auction to raise money for the site? In a case like that, mybills or redeye can receive a free year subscription if the piece sells for a nice amount. We should use our zoners talents to our advantage if they would be willing to accept the challenge.

[L.A. Playa]

If someone has been a writer on the Zone have they not in the past been asked to write?

If someone has graphic or VBulletin skills in the past have they not been asked to help ??

My intentions are being skewed like I am some mad accounting scientist wanting to know and divulge secret confidential items.

As a CFO I deal with confidential records everyday, and keep that confidentiality. My intent is to review and make suggestions where I can. Using my real life experience to help the Zone.

[chernobylwraiths]

If someone has been a writer on the Zone have they not in the past been asked to write?

If someone has graphic or VBulletin skills in the past have they not been asked to help ??

My intentions are being skewed like I am some mad accounting scientist wanting to know and divulge secret confidential items.

As a CFO I deal with confidential records everyday, and keep that confidentiality. My intent is to review and make suggestions where I can. Using my real life experience to help the Zone.

I believe you are taking this in a way that it was not intended. Nobody is questioning your financial skills, they just don't see how it would help. I don't think anyone thinks your intentions are anything but honorable.

[Gunzlingr]

If it is a privately owned zite, that kind of information should be kept private. I don't believe anyone is getting rich off the site (which I understand is NOT the intention of looking at the books) so I don't see how knowing how much it costs to run the site and how much the site gets in donations will have any bearing on how to improve the No TOS or how to get more people to donate.

I like the gift ideas. Maybe there could be a zone "store" where for a slight markup a t-shirt or keychain or bumper sticker or refrigerator magnet could be purchased. I think something like that was done in the past, but not to this degree. Cost/feasability would have to be looked into.

We have such a great community here at the BillsZone and many of its members might like to help but don't feel that they could write articles. How about some of our members (like mybills or redeye for instance) come up with billszone related art to sell in the store or maybe for an auction to raise money for the site? In a case like that, mybills or redeye can receive a free year subscription if the piece sells for a nice amount. We should use our zoners talents to our advantage if they would be willing to accept the challenge.

Hasn't TGOJK done a custom figure that was raffled off? That was a fantastic idea IMO. Draw upon the talents of the members. When I first started donating Wys sauce was a premium. As you mentioned a cafe press type store might be a nice addition.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I believe you are taking this in a way that it was not intended. Nobody is questioning your financial skills, they just don't see how it would help. I don't think anyone thinks your intentions are anything but honorable.

Right, we're not talking about a multi-million dollar company here. I'd think the ins and outs financially are pretty straightforward, and I'd also think that those that have already been charged with taking care of it up to this point are capable of making it flow to it's best ability.

I'm not questioning your skills or intentions Playa, merely you using this as a way to help win this election, when I don't think it's perhaps a necessary tool.

[RockStar36]

Billszone magnets and keychains are a nice perk. I'd say t-shirts and hats are not.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Hasn't TGOJK done a custom figure that was raffled off? That was a fantastic idea IMO. Draw upon the talents of the members. When I first started donating Wys sauce was a premium. As you mentioned a cafe press type store might be a nice addition.

You beat me to it... TGOJK does great work, hell, even Bedard has made some awesome custom figures. Seek these sorts of talent out and hold auctions or raffles for them, with proceeds exceeding inital cost (or including initial cost if the donor of those skills so wishes) going towards the Zone's overall funds.

[L.A. Playa]

I believe you are taking this in a way that it was not intended. Nobody is questioning your financial skills, they just don't see how it would help. I don't think anyone thinks your intentions are anything but honorable.

Looking at trends of donations both present and past as well as expenses and researching if there are more cost effective ways to d othings can help in several ways.

As I proposed in the debate, to come up with what the median donation is on a monthly basis, so instead of having tiers there would be one base donation monthly and one base donation annually.

Also, if you can project what your future revenue is going to be you can also come up with a marketing and advertising budget.

My intent is to help the Zone organize this and being able to attract as many donors as possible as well as knowing what is availble to market the Zone after the operating costs are met.

There is no intent in making the Zone profitable or more profitable rather to examine ways to advertise the Zone more using the donations to increase traffic and visibility.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Looking at trends of donations both present and past as well as expenses and researching if there are more cost effective ways to d othings can help in several ways.

As I proposed in the debate, to come up with what the median donation is on a monthly basis, so instead of having tiers there would be one base donation monthly and one base donation annually.

Also, if you can project what your future revenue is going to be you can also come up with a marketing and advertising budget.

My intent is to help the Zone organize this and being able to attract as many donors as possible as well as knowing what is availble to market the Zone after the operating costs are met.

There is no intent in making the Zone profitable or more profitable rather to examine ways to advertise the Zone more using the donations to increase traffic and visibility.

I'm really not for setting one single donation level. Sure, those that can/want to give more still can, but you might be pricing out some of the others. I want to donate to this site, and I do my best to do so, but it's not always financially feesible either. If you raise the amount to one overall average, you maybe raising that level beyond what some are willing to pay.

[RockStar36]

I like the whole donate for a year and actually only pay for 11 months. As of right now I don't see any incentive to donating for a whole year except you don't have to re-up every month. There should be some incentive to giving for a whole year.

I also think donors could receive a newsletter with staff writings, whats new with the site and stuff like that.

[L.A. Playa]

I'm really not for setting one single donation level. Sure, those that can/want to give more still can, but you might be pricing out some of the others. I want to donate to this site, and I do my best to do so, but it's not always financially feesible either. If you raise the amount to one overall average, you maybe raising that level beyond what some are willing to pay.

The point is not to price people out of donating, it is to encourage more people to donate. If you discover and set a median price point of donations it can actually increase revenues by encoraging more people to donate.

Also, with the proposal for first time donors can check out the benefits of donating for $1 for the first month, it could be an easy transition to becoming a regular donor.

[RockStar36]

The point is not to price people out of donating, it is to encourage more people to donate. If you discover and set a median price point of donations it can actually increase revenues by encoraging more people to donate.

Also, with the proposal for first time donors can check out the benefits of donating for $1 for the first month, it could be an easy transition to becoming a regular donor.

I think it would push them away.

They would donate $1 and see the :poop: in the No-TOS and probably not donate.

Then again, it would make the site an extra $1 that it wouldn't have had before.

I do think the median price would push people out though. The 2.50 is a nice option and if the price is changed to go higher some people might stop donating.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I like the whole donate for a year and actually only pay for 11 months. As of right now I don't see any incentive to donating for a whole year except you don't have to re-up every month. There should be some incentive to giving for a whole year.

I also think donors could receive a newsletter with staff writings, whats new with the site and stuff like that.

You're not a math major are you?

Current donations: $2.50/month, $25.00/year, $5/month, $50/year, $10/month, $100/year... aka 12 months for the price of 10! Playa's plan would actually decrease the current discount.

[DraftBoy]

I think it would push them away.

They would donate $1 and see the :poop: in the No-TOS and probably not donate.

Then again, it would make the site an extra $1 that it wouldn't have had before.

I do think the median price would push people out though. The 2.50 is a nice option and if the price is changed to go higher some people might stop donating.

See I disagree here I think the dollar one time donation is a great idea, especially if we find a way to make the No-Tos less of a juvenile playground and more of a place that people can come and talk about whatever. I think the debate topics are a good idea because it allows that want to debate to do so, and others can watch and comment and vote on the issue. It seems like a fun idea to me, but I love to debate. Especially if we make it about a wide range of topics life, politics, money, Bills, Sabres...I think that will drive to more donations, instead of just posting the latest porn site and being able to swear without a filter.

By the way this discussion is great!

[BlackMetalNinja]

The point is not to price people out of donating, it is to encourage more people to donate. If you discover and set a median price point of donations it can actually increase revenues by encoraging more people to donate.

Also, with the proposal for first time donors can check out the benefits of donating for $1 for the first month, it could be an easy transition to becoming a regular donor.
I'm not getting the logic here... It's not to price people out, it's to get more people to donate... by raising prices? I think you'll find the mass majority of donators currently are in the Silver range, with a handful of platinums thrown in. Other than multiple donors such as Lt, I see very few people use the gold option. $2.50/month seems very affordable to most for checking out a website. Go much beyond that and I think you lose a lot of your donors.

[BlackMetalNinja]

See I disagree here I think the dollar one time donation is a great idea, especially if we find a way to make the No-Tos less of a juvenile playground and more of a place that people can come and talk about whatever. I think the debate topics are a good idea because it allows that want to debate to do so, and others can watch and comment and vote on the issue. It seems like a fun idea to me, but I love to debate. Especially if we make it about a wide range of topics life, politics, money, Bills, Sabres...I think that will drive to more donations, instead of just posting the latest porn site and being able to swear without a filter.

By the way this discussion is great!

We already have forums for most of those things though where there are always debates going on... perhaps not in such an organized form. Didn't you already say that further subdividing things and pulling things out of one forum to another similar platform just dilutes the posting in the original forum?

[L.A. Playa]

You're not a math major are you?

Current donations: $2.50/month, $25.00/year, $5/month, $50/year, $10/month, $100/year... aka 12 months for the price of 10! Playa's plan would actually decrease the current discount.

Something I did not know, glad to see the Zone has this plan in effect already, thank you for pointing that out to me.

[RockStar36]

Hmmm...I guess so. That is news to me.

[DraftBoy]

He is ambitious no doubt, and he has the best intentions.
I think having a temporary MOD walking in and looking at the books is just a bit much. The zone has had a team in place that handles this sort of thing. I think having the new guy in off the street looking at the books is just a bit much.

As I have mentioned I truly think the Presidential Position is going to be highly monitored. I am fine with that I just want to get in the ring and throw around ideas with the Big Dogs.

I think you're taking his answer the wrong way and if you look at the Zone staff as of now it makes sense to lend his expertise to a specific area. For instance I handle a lot of the draft things here at the BZ and have since I got here in one capacity or another. Clump and Eb have done the cap stuff from the beginning too. If Playa's expertise is in examining financial trends AND the admins dont have an issue with it then I see no reason as to why he shouldn't be allowed to do so. Just because I or Rockstar dont know jack about accounting or financials doesnt mean if another members to the team that was added they shouldn't take a crack at it if thats what they do in real life. Of course nobody is going to win this election and all the sudden demand to do this or that and I dont think Playa was suggesting that, he was simply throwing an idea out there as something he could do to chip in and maybe discover an untapped revenue stream.

[casdhf]

How about a lifetime membership?

[DraftBoy]

We already have forums for most of those things though where there are always debates going on... perhaps not in such an organized form. Didn't you already say that further subdividing things and pulling things out of one forum to another similar platform just dilutes the posting in the original forum?

Nobody said anything about subdividing anything else. He simply mentions a topic a day debate, or a week or whatever. Let me ask you a question how often do you go into the Spin Zone to debate a topic at hand? Im not being a dick about this either, Im being serious.

[RockStar36]

There should be a top donor list as well. I think if someone like Lt donated as much as he did his efforts should be better recognized. Maybe people wouldn't jump on his **** as much if they saw he donated X amount compared to everyone else.

[L.A. Playa]

I'm not getting the logic here... It's not to price people out, it's to get more people to donate... by raising prices? I think you'll find the mass majority of donators currently are in the Silver range, with a handful of platinums thrown in. Other than multiple donors such as Lt, I see very few people use the gold option. $2.50/month seems very affordable to most for checking out a website. Go much beyond that and I think you lose a lot of your donors.

So you are saying that if based on historical trends and actual amount of donors based on each level if there was one set price point of lets say $3.50 which was the median donation per doner per month, that would price you out of donating to the site in the future ?

[L.A. Playa]

There should be a top donor list as well. I think if someone like Lt donated as much as he did his efforts should be better recognized. Maybe people wouldn't jump on his **** as much if they saw he donated X amount compared to everyone else.

this is a great idea

[BlackMetalNinja]

Nobody said anything about subdividing anything else. He simply mentions a topic a day debate, or a week or whatever. Let me ask you a question how often do you go into the Spin Zone to debate a topic at hand? Im not being a dick about this either, Im being serious.

I never used to step foot in the Spin Zone... in the past 6 months, I'm in there a few times a day generally. I post a couple times a week, unless it's something that especially peaks my interest, then it's more.

[YardRat]

I'm not going to comment on the candidates individual responses, but I must say the posts in this thread to this point are a commendable display of bi-partisanship and I applaud everyone's contributions.

[DraftBoy]

I never used to step foot in the Spin Zone... in the past 6 months, I'm in there a few times a day generally. I post a couple times a week, unless it's something that especially peaks my interest, then it's more.

Ok and would you say thats because you're just not that interested in politics or more because of the personalities that traditionally post there?

[BlackMetalNinja]

So you are saying that if based on historical trends and actual amount of donors based on each level if there was one set price point of lets say $3.50 which was the median donation per doner per month, that would price you out of donating to the site in the future ?

Potentially. Believe it or not, sometimes I really have to stop and think about $2.50 a month. I know it may not sound like much to you, and it's usually not for me either. However, I'm reaching a point in my life where expenses are about to skyrocket and I have to look at every means possible of saving extra cash. Donating here month in and month out adds up eventually.

Moreso, I think there is a certain group out there of people who will donate but only up to a point. There are those that donate simply because they know the site needs it. But those that donate for "content" purposes are probably only willing to spend a small amount of money on being able to view bonus parts of a website.

Just my opinion though man, I could certainly be off base on this.

[The King]

There should be a top donor list as well. I think if someone like Lt donated as much as he did his efforts should be better recognized. Maybe people wouldn't jump on his **** as much if they saw he donated X amount compared to everyone else.

This is a great idea! So good you should've given it to me before I made my response!!!

[DraftBoy]

This is a great idea! So good you should've given it to me before I made my response!!!

:rofl:

[BlackMetalNinja]

Ok and would you say thats because you're just not that interested in politics or more because of the personalities that traditionally post there?

A bit of both... but the personalities that trouble me the most in there are also donors... so that point becomes moot.

[RockStar36]

This is a great idea! So good you should've given it to me before I made my response!!!

I just thought of it. Actually, I've been thinking of stuff all morning. Too little too late I guess.

[DraftBoy]

Chimp isnt a donor and he's one of the biggest trouble makers in that area and lets also keep in mind that its a not a free for all debate. Rather its a topic chosen and people volunteer to debate one another on the debate. Two debaters are chosen and they alone debate each other everybody else is essentially a peanut gallery who just comment and later vote on the winner.

[YardRat]

There should be a top donor list as well. I think if someone like Lt donated as much as he did his efforts should be better recognized. Maybe people wouldn't jump on his **** as much if they saw he donated X amount compared to everyone else.

I could care less if LtFF outright buys the site and puts his name and picture in the title and on all the skins...I'm still going to jump his ****. But that's just me.

[DraftBoy]

I just thought of it. Actually, I've been thinking of stuff all morning. Too little too late I guess.

Well no better time then the present post them now.

[The King]

vote on the winner.

which was clearly me.

[The King]

I could care less if LtFF outright buys the site and puts his name and picture in the title and on all the skins...I'm still going to jump his ****. But that's just me.


eeeek, bad **** placement.

[hydro]

eeeek, bad **** placement.

:rofl:

[Mr. Pink]

See, I think the dollar one time donation idea is a great idea.

Gets everyone to see what the No-TOS zone is about and if they should continue to donate. Then if they don't like it, they're only out a buck and not 2.50.

You see, I'm a stingy bastard, I want to know what Donorship entails before becomming one. I've asked in the past for some kind of donation for me to become a member, either privately or by the site in general. It's really as simple as if I like what being a donor gets me, I'll become a donor.

Brilliant Idea in my mind.

[L.A. Playa]

by the way I would like to take this moment to thank the other candidates and staffs for a spirited and enjoyable debate

[RockStar36]

I could care less if LtFF outright buys the site and puts his name and picture in the title and on all the skins...I'm still going to jump his ****. But that's just me.


:rofl:

I didn't realize that you found bald Dolphin fans attractive.

[BlackMetalNinja]

See, I think the dollar one time donation idea is a great idea.

Gets everyone to see what the No-TOS zone is about and if they should continue to donate. Then if they don't like it, they're only out a buck and not 2.50.

You see, I'm a stingy bastard, I want to know what Donorship entails before becomming one. I've asked in the past for some kind of donation for me to become a member, either privately or by the site in general. It's really as simple as if I like what being a donor gets me, I'll become a donor.

Brilliant Idea in my mind.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_donor_faq_item

[RockStar36]

Hmmm...looks like some of those need tweaked.

[Mr. Pink]

I believe you are taking this in a way that it was not intended. Nobody is questioning your financial skills, they just don't see how it would help. I don't think anyone thinks your intentions are anything but honorable.

How would it not help?

If that is his main area of expertise, then he would know all kinds of cost cutting solutions on things that weren't all that pertinent which then would free up revenue to do things that would help the Zone along further.

That would make sense to me and be a great idea for advancing in the times as a whole here on this board.

Sure the insane would still run the asylum with just that being the change but the asylum would be a whole lot nicer.

[Mr. Pink]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_donor_faq_item

That's great that the stuff is listed.

I want to experience it to tell if it's worth buying.

I can look under the hood of a car and it's specs for hours on end and say oh it's great, but I'm certainly not buying it without a test drive.

Are you?

[BlackMetalNinja]

That's great that the stuff is listed.

I want to experience it to tell if it's worth buying.

I can look under the hood of a car and it's specs for hours on end and say oh it's great, but I'm certainly not buying it without a test drive.

Are you?

I completely understand and agree... I just wasn't sure if you were aware that a list existed.

[Gunzlingr]

How would it not help?

If that is his main area of expertise, then he would know all kinds of cost cutting solutions on things that weren't all that pertinent which then would free up revenue to do things that would help the Zone along further.

That would make sense to me and be a great idea for advancing in the times as a whole here on this board.

Sure the insane would still run the asylum with just that being the change but the asylum would be a whole lot nicer.

I don't see the connection between a large construction company and a fan run message board and how working for one makes you qualified to work for the other.

[RockStar36]

That's great that the stuff is listed.

I want to experience it to tell if it's worth buying.

I can look under the hood of a car and it's specs for hours on end and say oh it's great, but I'm certainly not buying it without a test drive.

Are you?

Honestly, it's not really the perks you should always look at. If that is the case, I think you would be dissapointed in that one dollar purchase.

[Gunzlingr]

Honestly, it's not really the perks you should always look at. If that is the case, I think you would be dissapointed in that one dollar purchase.

Exactly!

It is like a PBS pledge drive. Nobody is donating $100 for the canvas totebag, they are donating the $100 because they love watching Masterpiece Theater or Antiques Roadshow.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Exactly!

It is like a PBS pledge drive. Nobody is donating $100 for the canvas totebag, they are donating the $100 because they love watching Masterpiece Theater or Antiques Roadshow.

Right, except the people that watch those shows should be shot... Not so with the zoners!

[The King]

Exactly!

It is like a PBS pledge drive. Nobody is donating $100 for the canvas totebag, they are donating the $100 because they love watching Masterpiece Theater or Antiques Roadshow.

:rofl:

[Gunzlingr]

Right, except the people that watch those shows should be shot... Not so with the zoners!

you have a problem with education and culture? While I don't watch PBS as much as I probably should, there are some good programs.

[YardRat]

Just a couple of comments from a 'regular' member for the candidates to consider...

1) I have donated minimally in the past because A) I don't believe in private forums for a public message board...It creates a 'clique-ish' atmosphere B) When I have donated, the No-TOS isn't worth it anyway and in all honesty neither are many of the other benefits.

2) I think all of the candidates somewhat missed the boat on making donating more attractive to the average user. One of the attractions of participating on a message board are the bells and whistles, the 'toys', that members get to 'play' with regarding their on-line persona, especially avatars, etc. The store discounts should be increased dramatically with membership, starting at 50% instead of 10%. Being able to change your avatar at a more reasonable zonebux $ amount is a bigger draw than a private forum, IMO, and it would eliminate the necessity to require a bunch of fairies running around doing favors for those 'in need'. Help the members be able to help themselves.

3) A donate button/link to the donor page with all the benefits listed should appear on every page, in the most visible location possible, not just select pages.

[BlackMetalNinja]

you have a problem with education and culture? While I don't watch PBS as much as I probably should, there are some good programs.

While I agree, those two shows aren't some of them :ill: Asking me if I have a problem with education when my aspirations are to become a teacher is kinda funny though.

[Gunzlingr]

2) I think all of the candidates somewhat missed the boat on making donating more attractive to the average user. One of the attractions of participating on a message board are the bells and whistles, the 'toys', that members get to 'play' with regarding their on-line persona, especially avatars, etc. The store discounts should be increased dramatically with membership, starting at 50% instead of 10%. Being able to change your avatar at a more reasonable zonebux $ amount is a bigger draw than a private forum, IMO, and it would eliminate the necessity to require a bunch of fairies running around doing favors for those 'in need'. Help the members be able to help themselves.

3) A donate button/link to the donor page with all the benefits listed should appear on every page, in the most visible location possible, not just select pages.

I really like your ideas here. Especially with the discounts for members.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Just a couple of comments from a 'regular' member for the candidates to consider...

1) I have donated minimally in the past because A) I don't believe in private forums for a public message board...It creates a 'clique-ish' atmosphere B) When I have donated, the No-TOS isn't worth it anyway and in all honesty neither are many of the other benefits.

2) I think all of the candidates somewhat missed the boat on making donating more attractive to the average user. One of the attractions of participating on a message board are the bells and whistles, the 'toys', that members get to 'play' with regarding their on-line persona, especially avatars, etc. The store discounts should be increased dramatically with membership, starting at 50% instead of 10%. Being able to change your avatar at a more reasonable zonebux $ amount is a bigger draw than a private forum, IMO, and it would eliminate the necessity to require a bunch of fairies running around doing favors for those 'in need'. Help the members be able to help themselves.

3) A donate button/link to the donor page with all the benefits listed should appear on every page, in the most visible location possible, not just select pages.

I've been waiting for you to bust that back out! :rofl: I agree though... we've started being too generous with fixing all those sort of things for people. Add these in to some of the perks of being a paying member instead of just handing it all out to people when they ask.

Your last point is spot on too. You shouldn't be able to go anywhere on this site without seeing a link to becoming a donor essentially. I honestly haven't paid attention to how prevelant that is at the moment, but I'll trust Yard Rat saying it isn't everywhere.

[The King]

Just a couple of comments from a 'regular' member for the candidates to consider...



Some good points there YR. Especially from the marketing perspective. We really should have the donate buttons visable. Although I operate in stealth mode which is a great way to not get bagged at work, and also a great donor perk.

[jamze132]

From Bedard... I propose we develop a Bills forum in the No Tos specifically for Bills football talk, we promote it as such a place where you can talk about Bills Football Uncensored!

I have always wished there was a Bills forum in there for us donationaters. And I would hope that any of the candidates would impliment this idea.

[jamze132]

From Playa... There is something I believe that could not only make the No Tos better, but also discover new talent and utilize the talent we have already here on the Zone.
In the No-Tos, spurred on from this Election, have a Debate topic of the day. In the Off Season topics could include, The Draft, Free Agency, Politics, Social Topic of the Day, which woman is more beautiful, etc etc.

Outstanding idea! I would love this.

[Gunzlingr]

While I agree, those two shows aren't some of them :ill: Asking me if I have a problem with education when my aspirations are to become a teacher is kinda funny though.

While I am not a fan in the least, Masterpiece theater does bring classic literature to the masses that normally wouldn't be exposed to it. Shows like Nova, or Ken Burns films are good too. As far as Antiques Roadshow I do like that on occaision :couch:

[Mr. Pink]

From Bedard... I propose we develop a Bills forum in the No Tos specifically for Bills football talk, we promote it as such a place where you can talk about Bills Football Uncensored!

I have always wished there was a Bills forum in there for us donationaters. And I would hope that any of the candidates would impliment this idea.

I honestly think that idea would end up spelling the demise of the Bills Zone in general. Absolutely terrible.

For new people, who would pay to join this site when they're going to see minimal to no content on the main board while the donors are all off "jerking themself a soda" in No-TOS?

They won't. They'll simply go to others, who are competitors, who offer that very service free.

[mybills]

If it is a privately owned zite, that kind of information should be kept private. I don't believe anyone is getting rich off the site (which I understand is NOT the intention of looking at the books) so I don't see how knowing how much it costs to run the site and how much the site gets in donations will have any bearing on how to improve the No TOS or how to get more people to donate.

I like the gift ideas. Maybe there could be a zone "store" where for a slight markup a t-shirt or keychain or bumper sticker or refrigerator magnet could be purchased. I think something like that was done in the past, but not to this degree. Cost/feasability would have to be looked into.

We have such a great community here at the BillsZone and many of its members might like to help but don't feel that they could write articles. How about some of our members (like mybills or redeye for instance) come up with billszone related art to sell in the store or maybe for an auction to raise money for the site? In a case like that, mybills or redeye can receive a free year subscription if the piece sells for a nice amount. We should use our zoners talents to our advantage if they would be willing to accept the challenge.
I'm game! :up:

[Gunzlingr]

I honestly think that idea would end up spelling the demise of the Bills Zone in general. Absolutely terrible.

For new people, who would pay to join this site when they're going to see minimal to no content on the main board while the donors are all off "jerking themself a soda" in No-TOS?

They won't. They'll simply go to others, who are competitors, who offer that very service free.

I agree.

[RockStar36]

I think stealth mode should be advertised more. It does come in handy while at work.

[DraftBoy]

I agree.

Im confused you agree with FTY here which is in direct contradiction to MBB's plan which you said you had no issue with in his debate thread?

[Mitchy moo]

From Playa... There is something I believe that could not only make the No Tos better, but also discover new talent and utilize the talent we have already here on the Zone.
In the No-Tos, spurred on from this Election, have a Debate topic of the day. In the Off Season topics could include, The Draft, Free Agency, Politics, Social Topic of the Day, which woman is more beautiful, etc etc.

Outstanding idea! I would love this.

Keep up the great work Playa!!!

[RockStar36]

Keep up the great work Playa!!!

If Playa wins the vote will you be more inclined to donate to the site?

[Mr. Pink]

Im confused you agree with FTY here which is in direct contradiction to MBB's plan which you said you had no issue with in his debate thread?

That makes two of us...I'd like clarification from the Gunz camp.

[The King]

Im confused you agree with FTY here which is in direct contradiction to MBB's plan which you said you had no issue with in his debate thread?

http://www.pocopattino.com/shoephotos/Haveana-FlipFlop-Gold.jpg

[Gunzlingr]

Im confused you agree with FTY here which is in direct contradiction to MBB's plan which you said you had no issue with in his debate thread?

As I stated in my thread moving everything to the No TOS zone is not a good idea, with is what I was agreeing with FTY on. I guess I misinterpreted MBB's stance, I thought that he had said what FTY was saying. I don't think the Bills discussion should be exclusive to paying members, and said so in my answer.

I am sorry if there was some confusion.

[DraftBoy]

As I stated in my thread moving everything to the No TOS zone is not a good idea, with is what I was agreeing with FTY on. I guess I misinterpreted MBB's stance, I thought that he had said what FTY was saying. I don't think the Bills discussion should be exclusive to paying members, and said so in my answer.

I am sorry if there was some confusion.

No problem so we are clear though, you do not fully support MBB's idea of creating a donors only BZ?

[The King]

I was saying in addition to the Billszone not exclusive to No Tos.

So there would be a BillsZone Unsensored in addition to what we have now.

[DraftBoy]

I was saying in addition to the Billszone not exclusive to No Tos.

So there would be a BillsZone Unsensored in addition to what we have now.

That's what I said a Donors only BZ

[Gunzlingr]

No problem so we are clear though, you do not fully support MBB's idea of creating a donors only BZ?

No I do not, and I screwed the pooch by not reading it correctly in his thread and challenging him on it before I posted.

[DraftBoy]

No I do not, and I screwed the pooch by not reading it correctly in his thread and challenging him on it before I posted.

That you did

[The King]

That's what I said a Donors only BZ

Ok so you understand its in addition to the main forum.

[Gunzlingr]

Ok so you understand its in addition to the main forum.

Yes, and I think it is a bad idea.

[Gunzlingr]

That you did

Damned holiday and the accompanied workload surge :mad: Don't the attorney's know I have an online fantasy presidential campaign to run?!

[DraftBoy]

Ok so you understand its in addition to the main forum.

Yes I know you're not suggesting completely getting rid of the main forum but creating another Bills forum for donors only.

[The King]

Yes, and I think it is a bad idea.

Really? How come? It would never take over and essentially the previews you suggested should be featured someplace too right?

[DraftBoy]

Damned holiday and the accompanied workload surge :mad: Don't the attorney's know I have an online fantasy presidential campaign to run?!

This is why I do contract work, I do it when I have time to, like now Im busy doing draft stuff so this pesky bill Im playing defense on can wait. Plus the legislature is on a break this week so Ive got a slow work week.

[DraftBoy]

Really? How come? It would never take over and essentially the previews you suggested should be featured someplace too right?

That's what they thought at FH too, but soon all their good posters became donors and only would post in the donors only fin forum and their main forum turned to crap. Since the regular main forum is the only forum potential new members see I think their membership kind of plateaued.

[The King]

That's what they thought at FH too, but soon all their good posters became donors and only would post in the donors only fin forum and their main forum turned to crap. Since the regular main forum is the only forum potential new members see I think their membership kind of plateaued.

Then it wouldnt work. Cool.

A lot of this stuff is just ideas, and as I said I just want to bring this stuff to the table. Im not fighting tooth and nail for it.

[Gunzlingr]

Really? How come? It would never take over and essentially the previews you suggested should be featured someplace too right?

It will draw a few good posters, but it will leave the crap behind and the few posters left will leave to deal with it. There is nothing stopping anyone from discussing the team in there now for that matter, but if you encourage it by making it official, it will hurt the main board. As for the preview idea, it is just an idea, perhaps not the best idea either. I just really have a problem with making content exclusive, because there are people out there that it just isn't an option for.

[DraftBoy]

Then it wouldnt work. Cool.

A lot of this stuff is just ideas, and as I said I just want to bring this stuff to the table. Im not fighting tooth and nail for it.

Im not saying you are simply providing an example of what happened when this was put into motion before.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Well, maybe that's a bad example... isn't all the talk at Fin Heaven pure crap anyway??? Just given the nature of what they're talking about and all? :ill:

[Michael82]

I'm not going to comment on the candidates individual responses, but I must say the posts in this thread to this point are a commendable display of bi-partisanship and I applaud everyone's contributions.
I totally agree! If only the idiotic politicians could do this.... :sigh:

[shelby]

There are some outstanding ideas in this thread.

Great job gentlemen, i commend all of you!
:bf1:

[DraftBoy]

Well, maybe that's a bad example... isn't all the talk at Fin Heaven pure crap anyway??? Just given the nature of what they're talking about and all? :ill:

:rofl:

While that may be true the conclusion is still a logical one.

[Mitchy moo]

:rofl:

While that may be true the conclusion is still a logical one.

:band:

[OpIv37]

I cant reply to Playas reply because thats against the rules. But when he was talkin about looking into the Zones books, I truely feel that is beyond what the Pres will be doing here at the zone. Plus from what I imagine I would say the Billszone is in the black and is actually making money.



I agree 100%.

As for the answers, I also feel that all 3 of us are on the same page - with the exception of Playa's examination of the books.

Seems like Gunz and MBB agree on a lot- I know there was some debate over the issue of a No-TOS BZ, but they went on for a long time just discussing Playa's position before that happens.

I have to wonder if there's something going on behind the scenes. I mean, I tend to be a little paranoid, but both would benefit from making Playa the odd man out. That's how the political game is played.

[Devin]

Seems like Gunz and MBB agree on a lot- I know there was some debate over the issue of a No-TOS BZ, but they went on for a long time just discussing Playa's position before that happens.

I have to wonder if there's something going on behind the scenes. I mean, I tend to be a little paranoid, but both would benefit from making Playa the odd man out. That's how the political game is played.

I guess we will see if one of them loses and who they end up backing. But yeah I see what you mean.

Course if playa loses it wont much matter.

[OpIv37]

I guess we will see if one of them loses and who the end up backing. But yeah I see what you mean.

Course if playa loses it wont much matter.

From reading the debate threads, it seems to me that Gunz and Playa are closer on positions than Gunz and MBB. Gunz and Playa both want to make minimal changes to the Zone itself and rely on the quality and content of the board to attract donations, whereas MBB seems more in favor of exclusive donor content.

[LtFinFan66]

I could care less if LtFF outright buys the site and puts his name and picture in the title and on all the skins...I'm still going to jump his ****. But that's just me.bastard

[YardRat]

bastard

Like that's the first time I've been called that today.

[LtFinFan66]

Like that's the first time I've been called that today.If I bought it....you would be the first one banned:banned:

[hydro]

If I bought it....you would be the first one banned:banned:

:rofl: I think EE would have a heart attack...

[LtFinFan66]

:rofl: I think EE would have a heart attack...Indeed

[jamze132]

I honestly think that idea would end up spelling the demise of the Bills Zone in general. Absolutely terrible.

For new people, who would pay to join this site when they're going to see minimal to no content on the main board while the donors are all off "jerking themself a soda" in No-TOS?

They won't. They'll simply go to others, who are competitors, who offer that very service free.
I respectfully disagree. I would still frequent the main forum as much as I do now but it would be nice to get away from FTP and The Answer once in a while. The biggest reason I would come to the donors Bills forum would be to have a serious talk about Bills football since most of the dedicated fans will donate some cash to the Bills Zone actually know what they are talking about. That's from my experience. But I would never just forget about the main forum. There are some quality folks that post in there. Besides, sometimes I just want to be silly and I can do it there while ****ing with FTP.

[Cntrygal]

I respectfully disagree. I would still frequent the main forum as much as I do now but it would be nice to get away from FTP and The Answer once in a while. The biggest reason I would come to the donors Bills forum would be to have a serious talk about Bills football since most of the dedicated fans will donate some cash to the Bills Zone actually know what they are talking about. That's from my experience. But I would never just forget about the main forum. There are some quality folks that post in there. Besides, sometimes I just want to be silly and I can do it there while ****ing with FTP.


And if FTP or the Answer or anyone else you didn't like bought a membership?


And for the record - I'm against a private bills zone.

[jamze132]

And if FTP or the Answer or anyone else you didn't like bought a membership?


And for the record - I'm against a private bills zone.
There are always going to be people in every forum that you "don't like" or disagree with. I have no worries about trolls infesting a paid membership area.