Forked Thread: Are you ****ing kidding me?

[Ebenezer]

Forked from: Are you ****ing kidding me? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=2391278)


Off-season fire sale.

Fire sale who?? Name names and what you think you might get.

[OpIv37]

this team is so worthless that it doesn't really matter. Keep Hecht, Gaustad, Pominville, Roy, Tallinder on what they've done. Keep Paille, Kaleta and Weber on potential. Entertain trade offers on everyone else.

There is a whole laundry list of players who are up for new contracts in '09- someone posted the list but I'm too lazy to go dig it up. If any of those guys are the ones I mentioned, lock them up. Anyone else is fair game. If we get a bag of slightly used, unlaundered jock straps in exchange, who cares? It's more than what we'll get after '09 and we've seen what these guys are worth on the ice.

The FO is trying to do this half-assed semi-rebuilding thing that doesn't work. They want us to believe it's one step backwards this year for two steps forward next year. But these guys have shown what they're made of over this season and especially over this past week. If they don't make wholesale changes to this team it's one step backwards this year and two steps backwards next year.

They need to rebuild from scratch. You know they're not going to shell out the money for all the FA's in '09 so we're going to have to rebuild at that point whether we like it or not. Might as well get what we can now (even if it's not much) and start rebuilding rather than suffer through another year of mediocrity then start rebuilding.

[Ebenezer]

this team is so worthless that it doesn't really matter. Keep Hecht, Gaustad, Pominville, Roy, Tallinder on what they've done. Keep Paille, Kaleta and Weber on potential. Entertain trade offers on everyone else.

There is a whole laundry list of players who are up for new contracts in '09- someone posted the list but I'm too lazy to go dig it up. If any of those guys are the ones I mentioned, lock them up. Anyone else is fair game. If we get a bag of slightly used, unlaundered jock straps in exchange, who cares? It's more than what we'll get after '09 and we've seen what these guys are worth on the ice.

The FO is trying to do this half-assed semi-rebuilding thing that doesn't work. They want us to believe it's one step backwards this year for two steps forward next year. But these guys have shown what they're made of over this season and especially over this past week. If they don't make wholesale changes to this team it's one step backwards this year and two steps backwards next year.

They need to rebuild from scratch. You know they're not going to shell out the money for all the FA's in '09 so we're going to have to rebuild at that point whether we like it or not. Might as well get what we can now (even if it's not much) and start rebuilding rather than suffer through another year of mediocrity then start rebuilding.
rebuild from scratch?? you will play right into TG's hands...minimal costs, maximum ticket sales - he makes more money.

[OpIv37]

rebuild from scratch?? you will play right into TG's hands...minimal costs, maximum ticket sales - he makes more money.

as opposed to now where he has moderate costs with no results? He could shell out less money and end up with the same results- can't blame the guy for wanting to do that.

What's your solution? Stay the course so TG makes less money but the team still sucks? How is that better? We've seen what these guys are worth and they can't get it done. This team plus Drury and Briere couldn't get the job done, and this team without Drury and Briere is barely mediocre. We're not even close.

[Ebenezer]

as opposed to now where he has moderate costs with no results? He could shell out less money and end up with the same results- can't blame the guy for wanting to do that.

What's your solution? Stay the course so TG makes less money but the team still sucks? How is that better? We've seen what these guys are worth and they can't get it done. This team plus Drury and Briere couldn't get the job done, and this team without Drury and Briere is barely mediocre. We're not even close.
I suggest folks drop their seasons, then.

[OpIv37]

I suggest folks drop their seasons, then.

well that's a good protest but it doesn't address what's going on with the team.

At this point, I simply feel the more changes, the better. And if that means trading someone for very little return, so be it- if we don't do it, that player will either end up being paid more than they're worth or walking and we'll get nothing in return instead of very little (with this FO, it will most likely be the latter).

[Ebenezer]

well that's a good protest but it doesn't address what's going on with the team.

At this point, I simply feel the more changes, the better. And if that means trading someone for very little return, so be it- if we don't do it, that player will either end up being paid more than they're worth or walking and we'll get nothing in return instead of very little (with this FO, it will most likely be the latter).
the paradigm is already cast with this group...DR let on to that during that wonderful presser last year with LQ...and I will defend DR and LR...they were sold a bill of goods. The objective here is to make money. Fine, but give us a real chance. TG has already raked in so much money but they still insist on a internal cap? They only offered Campbell a three year deal? They "sat" on the Drury deal? Come on. They are going on the cheap and not going to spend bucks. The only reason there will be a big off season move is because they will feel the pressure from the fans. If Miller is not signed by Oct. 1 you can kiss him goodbye...and I won't blame him one bit.

[Michael82]

the paradigm is already cast with this group...DR let on to that during that wonderful presser last year with LQ...and I will defend DR and LR...they were sold a bill of goods. The objective here is to make money. Fine, but give us a real chance. TG has already raked in so much money but they still insist on a internal cap? They only offered Campbell a three year deal? They "sat" on the Drury deal? Come on. They are going on the cheap and not going to spend bucks. The only reason there will be a big off season move is because they will feel the pressure from the fans. If Miller is not signed by Oct. 1 you can kiss him goodbye...and I won't blame him one bit.
Boy this is depressing. :sigh:

[RockStar36]

You guys seriously define the term *****

[chernobylwraiths]

You guys seriously define the term *****

And I thought YOU were bad.

[OpIv37]

You guys seriously define the term *****

how do you expect us to react? This team in the conf finals two years in a row. Now we have a bunch of *****es who blew 3-1 3rd period leads TWICE in 4 days and can't even make the playoffs.

I don't know how you can claim you want to see this team win and not be pissed off by this garbage.

[raphael120]

how do you expect us to react? This team in the conf finals two years in a row. Now we have a bunch of *****es who blew 3-1 3rd period leads TWICE in 4 days and can't even make the playoffs.

I don't know how you can claim you want to see this team win and not be pissed off by this garbage.

We don't blow those leads and guess what, we're 1 or 2 points out of the 8th spot, AND have the confidence that you just took it to Ottawa and Montreal, two of your biggest rivals.

Oh well...say it with me again Buffalo sports fans...."There's always next year!"

[Dr. Lecter]

They need to rebuild from scratch. You know they're not going to shell out the money for all the FA's in '09 so we're going to have to rebuild at that point whether we like it or not. Might as well get what we can now (even if it's not much) and start rebuilding rather than suffer through another year of mediocrity then start rebuilding.

Rebuilding from scratch would be as dumb as letting Briere and Drury both go.

Make the necessary changes, yes. But you don't rebuild one of the youngest teams in the NHL from scratch.

[Dr. Lecter]

And suggesting trading someboy like Stafford or Vanek for nothing is absolutely moronic.

But it might put them in the Tavares sweepstakes.

[BlackMetalNinja]

how do you expect us to react?

I expect you to completely overreact and fly off the handle... just like you did.

Obviously there are issues here and we have some guys we'd probably be better without. Of course, you're working off the premise that somebody else wants these guys and is going to give us something worth a damn in return.

To try and completely rebuild one of the youngest teams in the league is far more stupid than anything the FO has done thus far. What you need to focus on are the few guys that somehow still have some potential value elsewhere in the league, primarily Max and Conolly. For whatever reason people are still excited about how explosive and game changing those guys can be, while we seem to know better at this point. Particularly Max has had more than enough time to show what he's capable of, and he hasn't done it. Timmy hasn't had as much time, but he's wasted what time he has had out with injury. Those two guys I think we can get something decent for to help fix this club.

With few other exceptions, the rest of the team had guys who fit their role... You seem to think that this whole team is supposed to perform at some level higher than they really need to. It's clear to me you don't watch much hockey outside of the Sabres (I use the term watch loosely too, most of what you're getting is what you interpret through radio). Most teams in this league don't have a bunch of guys putting up some amazing numbers night in and night out, they get key contributions out of guys here and there. If you think we're going to have 8 guys go out and score 30 goals and put up 80 points, you're pretty crazy.

The biggest problem we faced this year is that the rest of the conference got better and we simply didn't. The style of play we used the past 2 years is already on it's way out and we just haven't adjusted yet. Get rid of those all flash and no substance guys I mentioned above and bring back a few Steve Bernier's and Paul Gaustad's. Guys who aren't afraid to get in deep in front of the net and cause trouble, hit a few people along the way, etc. And more than anything, we need to find at least one SOLID defensive defensemen. I loved Campbell, but he was more of the old system that helped propel huge offensive explosions in a fast paced game, he wasn't that great on defense. The way things have changed calls for more shutdown D guys that we just don't have.

Fire sale my ass is what I'm trying to say... a few key changes and this team is right back in the middle of the race for the Eastern Conference because we weren't THAT far off this year no matter how bad some of you like to paint the picture as being.

[hydro]

I expect you to completely overreact and fly off the handle... just like you did.

Obviously there are issues here and we have some guys we'd probably be better without. Of course, you're working off the premise that somebody else wants these guys and is going to give us something worth a damn in return.

To try and completely rebuild one of the youngest teams in the league is far more stupid than anything the FO has done thus far. What you need to focus on are the few guys that somehow still have some potential value elsewhere in the league, primarily Max and Conolly. For whatever reason people are still excited about how explosive and game changing those guys can be, while we seem to know better at this point. Particularly Max has had more than enough time to show what he's capable of, and he hasn't done it. Timmy hasn't had as much time, but he's wasted what time he has had out with injury. Those two guys I think we can get something decent for to help fix this club.

With few other exceptions, the rest of the team had guys who fit their role... You seem to think that this whole team is supposed to perform at some level higher than they really need to. It's clear to me you don't watch much hockey outside of the Sabres (I use the term watch loosely too, most of what you're getting is what you interpret through radio). Most teams in this league don't have a bunch of guys putting up some amazing numbers night in and night out, they get key contributions out of guys here and there. If you think we're going to have 8 guys go out and score 30 goals and put up 80 points, you're pretty crazy.

The biggest problem we faced this year is that the rest of the conference got better and we simply didn't. The style of play we used the past 2 years is already on it's way out and we just haven't adjusted yet. Get rid of those all flash and no substance guys I mentioned above and bring back a few Steve Bernier's and Paul Gaustad's. Guys who aren't afraid to get in deep in front of the net and cause trouble, hit a few people along the way, etc. And more than anything, we need to find at least one SOLID defensive defensemen. I loved Campbell, but he was more of the old system that helped propel huge offensive explosions in a fast paced game, he wasn't that great on defense. The way things have changed calls for more shutdown D guys that we just don't have.

Fire sale my ass is what I'm trying to say... a few key changes and this team is right back in the middle of the race for the Eastern Conference because we weren't THAT far off this year no matter how bad some of you like to paint the picture as being.

:bf1:

[Dr. Lecter]

Outstanding work BMN.

[SabreEleven]

I wonder how uniform sales are going this year?

[Michael82]

I wonder how uniform sales are going this year?
:gag:

[Philagape]

You seem to think that this whole team is supposed to perform at some level higher than they really need to.

They're supposed to perform at least well enough to make the playoffs, eh? Is that asking too much? Playoffs is not a "need to" level? If it is, then yes, they have to go a level higher. And then several levels after that to really contend.


The biggest problem we faced this year is that the rest of the conference got better and we simply didn't.

No, we got WORSE. Letting the two best players and leaders go is getting much worse.
And while it didn't seem significant at the time, the change of backup goalies was a disaster. They wore Miller out because Thibault sucks too much to even play him, and the guy he replaced owned the Sabres this season.

[OpIv37]

Rebuilding from scratch would be as dumb as letting Briere and Drury both go.

Make the necessary changes, yes. But you don't rebuild one of the youngest teams in the NHL from scratch.

yes, you do.

Because the majority of these "young" guys have plenty of experience, in both the regular season and the playoffs. And they're getting WORSE as the season goes on, not better.

It was dumb to let Drury and Briere go.
It was even dumber to think this current crop of guys are good enough.
And it would be dumber still to stay the course by thinking all this team needs is experience. Doing that is just delaying the inevitable rebuilding.

And during that delay, all we as fans have to look forward to is more mediocrity.

[OpIv37]

I expect you to completely overreact and fly off the handle... just like you did.

Obviously there are issues here and we have some guys we'd probably be better without. Of course, you're working off the premise that somebody else wants these guys and is going to give us something worth a damn in return.


COMPLETELY wrong. Go back and read my post- I said if we get ANYTHING for them, it's better than mediocrity next year and NOTHING after 09. I never said anything about something worth a damn. Read more carefully and don't put words in my mouth.



To try and completely rebuild one of the youngest teams in the league is far more stupid than anything the FO has done thus far. What you need to focus on are the few guys that somehow still have some potential value elsewhere in the league, primarily Max and Conolly. For whatever reason people are still excited about how explosive and game changing those guys can be, while we seem to know better at this point. Particularly Max has had more than enough time to show what he's capable of, and he hasn't done it. Timmy hasn't had as much time, but he's wasted what time he has had out with injury. Those two guys I think we can get something decent for to help fix this club.

With few other exceptions, the rest of the team had guys who fit their role... You seem to think that this whole team is supposed to perform at some level higher than they really need to. It's clear to me you don't watch much hockey outside of the Sabres (I use the term watch loosely too, most of what you're getting is what you interpret through radio). Most teams in this league don't have a bunch of guys putting up some amazing numbers night in and night out, they get key contributions out of guys here and there. If you think we're going to have 8 guys go out and score 30 goals and put up 80 points, you're pretty crazy.

The biggest problem we faced this year is that the rest of the conference got better and we simply didn't. The style of play we used the past 2 years is already on it's way out and we just haven't adjusted yet. Get rid of those all flash and no substance guys I mentioned above and bring back a few Steve Bernier's and Paul Gaustad's. Guys who aren't afraid to get in deep in front of the net and cause trouble, hit a few people along the way, etc. And more than anything, we need to find at least one SOLID defensive defensemen. I loved Campbell, but he was more of the old system that helped propel huge offensive explosions in a fast paced game, he wasn't that great on defense. The way things have changed calls for more shutdown D guys that we just don't have.

Fire sale my ass is what I'm trying to say... a few key changes and this team is right back in the middle of the race for the Eastern Conference because we weren't THAT far off this year no matter how bad some of you like to paint the picture as being.

You are so far off that it's not even funny. This team PLUS Drury and Briere wasn't good enough, so I don't know where you get off saying we're not that far off. We dropped from conf finals to out of the playoffs in ONE year- that's pretty ****ing far off. Most of the guys on this team have plenty of regular season AND playoff experience. That's not the problem.

The FO somehow thought they could get buy with this crop of failures that has gotten worse as the season progressed. That's almost as dumb as letting Drury and Briere go. See my previous post- staying the course with the current crop would be the dumbest post yet because all it does is delay the inevitable rebuilding.

These guys simply aren't good enough. Blowing 3-1 third period leads TWICE in 4 days is more than enough proof, let alone the rest of this lackluster season. It's not about numbers- it's about results. We don't need 30 goal/80 point scorers to maintain 3-1 leads in the third- just a bunch of guys who don't suck would do the trick. But apparently that's too much to ask.

Haven't you learned anything from watching the Bills? Everyone says "Just give it time, just give it time", and after 3 years we start rebuilding all over again. The Sabres are headed in that same direction.


Outstanding work BMN.

see the above- it was terrible work and he wasn't even close.

[chubluv]

Op, we weren't good enough with Briere & Drury 2 years ago because of a depleted defenceman corp. Last year we didn't adapt to the way the game was called in the conference finals.

What we need is more physical type players to go with our finesse guys. The guys play the so called "SYSTEM", but once they are up or down by a few goals they collapse.

[OpIv37]

Op, we weren't good enough with Briere & Drury 2 years ago because of a depleted defenceman corp. Last year we didn't adapt to the way the game was called in the conference finals.

What we need is more physical type players to go with our finesse guys. The guys play the so called "SYSTEM", but once they are up or down by a few goals they collapse.

And what does that tell you? They either lack the skill or lack the heart to maintain a lead- ie, they're not good enough. We WERE a few physical defensemen away from a Stanley Cup. Now we're a few physical defensemen, a captain, another leader, a scorer and a backup goalie away from a Stanley Cup.

After '09 a lot of these guys are going to walk anyway. So, take ANYTHING we can get for them now and just start over. Yeah, it means '08-'09 will suck. But if we don't make wholesale changes, '08-'09 will be mediocre, then everyone will leave, then '09-'10 will suck and if we're lucky we'll be back to mediocre by '10-'11.

[Dr. Lecter]

So you let Vanek, Sekera and Stafford go for nothing?

I find it amusing that a guy who *****es he never gets to see this team play has all the answers.

Make some necessary moves. This team is not as far away as you think they are, but over-reacting is more fun. This was not the worst team in the league. Making some small moves (i.e. a real back up goaltender so Miller is not beat dead at the end of the season). Dumping everybody and starting over when many of the players are under 25 is dumb and the reason why fans should not be in the FO. I am willing to bet you would have torn Ottawa apart two years ago too.

Because, whether you like it or not, guys like Roy and Pominville are blossomig (right now I would prefer Pominville to Briere).

The team obviously regressed this year. Saying that means all the players suck is short-sighted.

Look, I am as pissed as you. Spending ~$1,000 this year will lead to that. Going from the penthouse to the outhouse really sucks and I am not happy. But it is not like this team should be torn down now. They are still young. Dumping young guys (especially with a depleted minor league) is not the way to build a winner, especially in this new age of the NHL. It is also natural that with expanded FA that teams are going to come and go. The best way to build is with young guys, using FA to supplement.

Giving up on half the team that is under 25 after one season of turmoil will set the team back 4-5 years at least.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Op... I've never seen anybody tell others they are flat out wrong as much as you do. Yet you always preach that this is a message board and we're here to provide opinions when people talk about you *****ing... I guess if it's not your opinion it's just wrong though. You're so unwilling to see any positive side of anything it's astounding. If you're so ****ing right all the time, please tell me why you aren't in some way operating a professional franchise, you've always got the correct answers after all.

I'm sick and tired of coming in here and trying to present the other side of an argument just to be told I'm wrong. Never is it "you know, maybe I can see some of your points, but I disagree"... It's always "You're way off, you're wrong, you have no clue".

You've become one of the high and mighty *******s that turns people off to this place and the reason why many people are unwilling to hardly even post in the BZ at this point.

Having an opinion and sharing it is great, telling people how wrong they are all the time is conceited and dickheaded.

[OpIv37]

Op... I've never seen anybody tell others they are flat out wrong as much as you do. Yet you always preach that this is a message board and we're here to provide opinions when people talk about you *****ing... I guess if it's not your opinion it's just wrong though. You're so unwilling to see any positive side of anything it's astounding. If you're so ****ing right all the time, please tell me why you aren't in some way operating a professional franchise, you've always got the correct answers after all.

I'm sick and tired of coming in here and trying to present the other side of an argument just to be told I'm wrong. Never is it "you know, maybe I can see some of your points, but I disagree"... It's always "You're way off, you're wrong, you have no clue".

You've become one of the high and mighty *******s that turns people off to this place and the reason why many people are unwilling to hardly even post in the BZ at this point.

Having an opinion and sharing it is great, telling people how wrong they are all the time is conceited and dickheaded.


If you don't want to be told you're wrong, stop being wrong.

Your whole premise for your "opinion" started based on something I never even said. I presented plenty of reasons as to why you were wrong- ie, this team plus Drury and Briere couldn't do it, we don't need 80 point scorers to hold onto 3-1 leads, this team dropped from conf finals to out of the playoffs in 1 season.... yet, you continue to insist that we're not that far off with no facts to back it up.

I don't know where you come off with this notion that all opinions are somehow equal. They aren't- some have facts and reasoning behind them, and some have hope and wishful thinking behind them.

[BlackMetalNinja]

If you don't want to be told you're wrong, stop being wrong.

Your whole premise for your "opinion" started based on something I never even said. I presented plenty of reasons as to why you were wrong- ie, this team plus Drury and Briere couldn't do it, we don't need 80 point scorers to hold onto 3-1 leads, this team dropped from conf finals to out of the playoffs in 1 season.... yet, you continue to insist that we're not that far off with no facts to back it up.

I don't know where you come off with this notion that all opinions are somehow equal. They aren't- some have facts and reasoning behind them, and some have hope and wishful thinking behind them.

:bow: I love you Op... will you have my babies so I can have children that will never ever be wrong?

[OpIv37]

:bow: I love you Op... will you have my babies so I can have children that will never ever be wrong?

give me evidence that backs up your opinion that is stronger than the evidence I have to back up my opinion, then maybe I'll agree or at least admit that I see your point. But right now, I don't see your point. I see wishful thinking and the company line with no substance behind it.

The only guys on the team right now who weren't part of at least one of the deep playoff runs are Sekera, Weber, Paetsch, Kaleta, Paille and Stafford (Bernier and Pratt weren't Sabres but have plenty of experience with their former teams).

So, this whole notion that this team is young and lacks experience makes no sense. The majority of the team has been deep into the playoffs twice and those guys aren't getting the job done. In addition, if this "youth and experience" argument held any water, we'd be improving as the season goes on- like the Caps. An NHL season is 82 games starting in October and ending in April- almost a 7 month span. I'm not saying that the team should improve from nothing to a juggernaut over 7 months, but they should be able to improve enough to retain 3-1 3rd period leads in that span. Instead, we've regressed.

Nothing you've said is logical or realistic, yet you still expect me to give deference to your opinion? You're the one who wants respect for opinions that have no merit, but I'm the one who's supposedly conceited. :rolleyes:

[Dr. Lecter]

First Bernier is 22 and does not have "plenty" of experience, unless you count 1.5 seasons plenty.

Second, while this team has blown too many leads this year without a doubt, if one looks at it a little deeper one would see that they have also came from behind a number of times and have blown out teams a number of times. They have also came up big in games, like in Ottawa the other night.

What could take from that is that this is a still you team lacking leadership and a calming influence. The losses of Drury, Briere and Teppo (in retrospect, that really hurt this team) causes that. It has also been badly hurt by a goaltender in down year who appears to be exhausted.

Fact is people have given you facts, but you choose to ignore them. There are several key components on this team (such as two 30 goal + scorers). They need work, that much is for sure. But to blow everything up, with nothing to replace the guys you get rid of (a point you conveniently ignored) is pretty shortsighted.

But like I said a few months ago (and you denied) it is a trait of a Buffalo sports fan to give up too soon and to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[hydro]

The "fact" that we have a "experienced" team is totally off base. This team has experience in totally different roles. Drury was the leader along with Briere. Those two were great in those roles and nobody else had to worry about stepping up as the leader of the team. Now both of our leaders are gone and nobody has stepped up.... YET! Along with some other fans I am willing to go into the next season with minimal changes, hopefully one being a proven leader, and see what we can do next year. No matter how you spin it, WE ARE YOUNG!!!@!!

[OpIv37]

First Bernier is 22 and does not have "plenty" of experience, unless you count 1.5 seasons plenty.

Second, while this team has blown too many leads this year without a doubt, if one looks at it a little deeper one would see that they have also came from behind a number of times and have blown out teams a number of times. They have also came up big in games, like in Ottawa the other night.

What could take from that is that this is a still you team lacking leadership and a calming influence. The losses of Drury, Briere and Teppo (in retrospect, that really hurt this team) causes that. It has also been badly hurt by a goaltender in down year who appears to be exhausted.

Fact is people have given you facts, but you choose to ignore them. There are several key components on this team (such as two 30 goal + scorers). They need work, that much is for sure. But to blow everything up, with nothing to replace the guys you get rid of (a point you conveniently ignored) is pretty shortsighted.

But like I said a few months ago (and you denied) it is a trait of a Buffalo sports fan to give up too soon and to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Ok, so I was wrong about Bernier- still, the general point holds true. The majority of this team is experienced so this "youth and inexperience" mantra that you and BMN hold to simply doesn't match up with the facts.

If we lose these guys, we lose nothing. I don't understand your problem with replacing nothing with nothing. If we get ANYTHING for these guys, we're better off than nothing, which is what we have now.

They had one notable come from behind win- Tampa Bay. That's it. And after that game, for a brief second I started to buy what you guys are saying- that maybe this team can turn it around- but the results on the ice quickly wiped those thoughts from my mind.

If you want to look into it even further, most of our big wins and comebacks came against teams like Toronto, Carolina, Tampa Bay, etc (yes, I know- one big win against Ottawa and one against Nashville). Most of our wins came against weak teams- we've struggled horrendously against teams like Pittsburgh, Ottawa, NY Rangers, etc.

You said yourself that losing Drury and Briere hurt- do you know how hard it is to find a Drury OR a Briere, let alone replacements for both? How can you sit there and think this team is on the brink of success while simultaneously admitting such glaring holes? It makes no sense.

Give up too soon, huh? This team was in the conference finals last year and now they're OUT of the playoffs. They're getting WORSE, not better. How much worse do they need to get before it's acceptable to "give up"? You're acting like there's something wrong with people who expect improvement from one season to the next rather than regression. With the Bills, my problem is that the improvements are too incremental and we're going to have a whole new set of problems by the time they fix the current ones, but at least they're improving. With the Sabres, they're going backwards and you're saying "give it time."

If you get the time you're asking for, you'll see how wrong you are in two years when this completely team falls apart and needs to be rebuilt from scratch anyway.

There is no reasoning to your thinking. We were on the brink of glory for two consecutive seasons, and this team subtracts rather than adds and ends up mired in mediocrity. We have a shell of a team that was good, but not quite good enough- and you're saying "give it time." It simply doesn't make sense.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

http://www.letsgosabres.com/team/payroll.php

[Dr. Lecter]

Op, you are so totaly missing the point, I really don't know what to say, except to go back an re-read some of what has been said.

Either you are unwilling or unable to understand what is being said.

The fact is this team had a number of young players put into new roles this year. They also did not have (or did not use) the back-up goaltender. But you don't want to hear about that and want to dump everybody. Instead of letting Roy and Pominville become the leaders and letting Stafford and Bernier become second line guys, you want them gone. And fact is there has been more than one comeback, but I doubt you would remember any of them since you tend to block out any positive..

BTW, if you start over get rid of Roy and Pominville too since they are clearly not good enough. Besides, once 4-5 years is up, they will be on their way out.

Finally, what is the problem with Pratt - he is what he is- a 6th or 7th D-man.

[OpIv37]

Op, you are so totaly missing the point, I really don't know what to say, except to go back an re-read some of what has been said.

Either you are unwilling or unable to understand what is being said.

The fact is this team had a number of young players put into new roles this year. They also did not have (or did not use) the back-up goaltender. But you don't want to hear about that and want to dump everybody. Instead of letting Roy and Pominville become the leaders and letting Stafford and Bernier become second line guys, you want them gone. And fact is there has been more than one comeback, but I doubt you would remember any of them since you tend to block out any positive..

BTW, if you start over get rid of Roy and Pominville too since they are clearly not good enough. Besides, once 4-5 years is up, they will be on their way out.

Finally, what is the problem with Pratt - he is what he is- a 6th or 7th D-man.

Again, you're not reading my posts. Roy and Pominville were on the list of guys I said we should keep. And I never said there was a problem with Pratt- I said he had experience with other teams and shouldn't be counted as one of these guys who's going to get better with experience. He's as good as he's going to get- that's all I'm saying. Used in the right role, he's fine- but he's not going to be anything more than what he currently is.

New roles? Well, we're 79 games into the season and a lot of those players still haven't adjusted to those new roles. Yet, some people on here- like you and BMN- hold out hope that they will in the future. It simply doesn't make sense.

[Dr. Lecter]

Again, you're not reading my posts. Roy and Pominville were on the list of guys I said we should keep. And I never said there was a problem with Pratt- I said he had experience with other teams and shouldn't be counted as one of these guys who's going to get better with experience. He's as good as he's going to get- that's all I'm saying. Used in the right role, he's fine- but he's not going to be anything more than what he currently is.

New roles? Well, we're 79 games into the season and a lot of those players still haven't adjusted to those new roles. Yet, some people on here- like you and BMN- hold out hope that they will in the future. It simply doesn't make sense.

And giving up on them when they have hit the roles at times (and times have not clearly) makes no sense either. If they were at Tampa levels, I would be more likely to agree with you. But they were not. They are a team that was maddeningly inconsistent and whom cl;early lacked confidence at times.

Further, one of the biggest issues was the inability to give Miller a rest. Get a back-up here and let him play ~20 games and Miller will be much better. For all I love about Lindy, he messed up the goalie situation.

Take a look at what you have said in this forum in the last two days (paraphrasing):

1. I have not seen enough of Gaustad to know how well he as played.
2. I have seen enough of this team to know what changes need to be made.

It is contradictory. You say they need a scorer, but will finish the year in top 5 in goals. Do they really need a scorer?

It is hard to see why patience is needed - they were damn close for two years. But giving up on a talented crop of youngsters is not wise either.

Bringing in a calming influence who can kick the other players in the nuts when they are giving up 2 goal leads will go a far way to making this team very good again . And they did start to come around later in the year. There record after the All-star break was solid. The horrible first ten games did them in.

Get some leadership and especially a back-up goalie, let Sekera and Weber continue to develop. With Lindy coaching and those moves the future is not as bleaks as you make it out to be.