One positive from this season.....

[Dr. Lecter]

Is what looks like an emergence of a young defensive pairing. Even before last nights game I was talking about Sekera and Weber.

Next year's D might not be as bad as I feared:

Tallinder-Lydman/Spacek
Weber-Sekera
Paetsch-Pratt

Maybe trading Sissy or Lydman. I am fine with Paetsch/Pratt as the last pairing, but if neither is moved pair Spacek with Nate and keep Pratt as the 7th guy.

I also thought Funk looked like a serviceable depth guy (i.e. 7th or 8th) d-man.

[RockStar36]

Assuming they re-sign Pratt

[Dr. Lecter]

True 'dat.

[RockStar36]

See, I know these things now that I actually looked at the numbers.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I have to say I was fairly dissapointed in Paetsch this year... I expected him to step up a lot and possibly become our #3 dman. That being said, I'm ok with him being in the last pairing, it's just not what I expected of him.

Tallinder - Lydman
Spacek - Weber
Pratt/Sekera - Paetsch

I'd still like one more notable name in their personally. Bret Hedican for a year or so (he's 36) or Michael Roszival (28) would both be upgrades over Kalinin and are making about the same money right now. There's some other notable Dmen out there this summer too.

[Dr. Lecter]

I really like Sekera and Weber together. They have played together in Rochester and are perfect compliments to one another. Keeping them together, imo, is a really good idea.

[RockStar36]

I have to say I was fairly dissapointed in Paetsch this year... I expected him to step up a lot and possibly become our #3 dman. That being said, I'm ok with him being in the last pairing, it's just not what I expected of him.

Tallinder - Lydman
Spacek - Weber
Pratt/Sekera - Paetsch

I'd still like one more notable name in their personally. Bret Hedican for a year or so (he's 36) or Michael Roszival (28) would both be upgrades over Kalinin and are making about the same money right now. There's some other notable Dmen out there this summer too.

I would like Roszival. I don't watch as many Rangers games so I would assume he would be an upgrade.

[BlackMetalNinja]

13 goals, 23 assists, +1 on the season... 40 points +10 the year before and 30 points +35 the year before that...

[DraftBoy]

Can we sign just one big banging Dman? Just once?

[BlackMetalNinja]

Can we sign just one big banging Dman? Just once?

Nick Lidstrom :up: We'd break the bank on him though and it's not worth it. He's more offensive minded anyways.

[helmetguy]

I really like Sekera and Weber together. They have played together in Rochester and are perfect compliments to one another. Keeping them together, imo, is a really good idea.

Makes it easier to unload Kalinin and Lydman, doesn't it? Just don't bring in any more Eastern Europeans.

[Mitchy moo]

This season is not over, so like usual some of us are pre-mature. (story of my life)

[THATHURMANATOR]

I really like Sekera and Weber together. They have played together in Rochester and are perfect compliments to one another. Keeping them together, imo, is a really good idea.
I had reservations about putting them together this year but it seems to have worked out. I like that pairing.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can we sign just one big banging Dman? Just once?
I Weber is that big banging Dman. If he pans out.

[Nighthawk]

Is what looks like an emergence of a young defensive pairing. Even before last nights game I was talking about Sekera and Weber.

Next year's D might not be as bad as I feared:

Tallinder-Lydman/Spacek
Weber-Sekera
Paetsch-Pratt

Maybe trading Sissy or Lydman. I am fine with Paetsch/Pratt as the last pairing, but if neither is moved pair Spacek with Nate and keep Pratt as the 7th guy.

I also thought Funk looked like a serviceable depth guy (i.e. 7th or 8th) d-man.

You CANNOT go into next season without overhauling the defense. Paetsch is terrible, Lydman or Tallinder should be trade bait. I love what Weber & Sekera have shown and would have no problem with them on this team. This team NEEDS to make changes and hoping for improvement from players that have been given every chance to succeed is just plain silly.

[OpIv37]

You CANNOT go into next season without overhauling the defense. Paetsch is terrible, Lydman or Tallinder should be trade bait. I love what Weber & Sekera have shown and would have no problem with them on this team. This team NEEDS to make changes and hoping for improvement from players that have been given every chance to succeed is just plain silly.

Replace Tallinder with Spacek and/or Kalinin and I agree. Tallinder is the only D man on this team worth a damn, although some of the youngsters have shown promise.

[Dr. Lecter]

You CANNOT go into next season without overhauling the defense. Paetsch is terrible, Lydman or Tallinder should be trade bait. I love what Weber & Sekera have shown and would have no problem with them on this team. This team NEEDS to make changes and hoping for improvement from players that have been given every chance to succeed is just plain silly.

The overhaul is Weber and Sekera. Giving up on Paetsch now would be a bad idea, unless one forgets how horrible Campbell was his first 2-3 seasons in the NHL. (Or am I the only one?) But giving up on players in years 2 or 3 is silly (I willalso add the name Briere to that list)

Trade Lydman or Spacek, use Sekera and Weber all season and this defense is much better.

Trading Tallinder would be a disaster. He is (and has been) the Sabres best defenseman.

We ***** when they lose their best players and now we want to get rid of their best players? That is illogical.

[OpIv37]

The overhaul is Weber and Sekera. Giving up on Paetsch now would be a bad idea, unless one forgets how horrible Campbell was his first 2-3 seasons in the NHL. (Or am I the only one?) But giving up on players in years 2 or 3 is silly (I willalso add the name Briere to that list)

Trade Lydman or Spacek, use Sekera and Weber all season and this defense is much better.

Trading Tallinder would be a disaster. He is (and has been) the Sabres best defenseman.

We ***** when they lose their best players and now we want to get rid of their best players? That is illogical.

wait, the overhaul is two guys who weren't good enough all year? Didn't we try that with the fwd lines this year? Haven't the Bills tried that numerous times without success?

So what are we supposed to do for 2-3 years until they're good enough? Just keep losing? This is a team that was in the conf finals the last two years- we should have been adding the missing pieces instead of waiting on guys to get better. But this FO tore the team down and tried to get by with the shell of the team that remains. We're not going to get back to where we were with this flimsy foundation- we need to start over.

And what happens in 2-3 years when the FO lets them walk anyway?

The problem is that the real best players leave, and the best players who are left aren't good enough. That's the flaw in your argument- the best guys on the team still aren't good enough.

[Mitchell55]

Is what looks like an emergence of a young defensive pairing. Even before last nights game I was talking about Sekera and Weber.

Next year's D might not be as bad as I feared:

Tallinder-Lydman/Spacek
Weber-Sekera
Paetsch-Pratt

Maybe trading Sissy or Lydman. I am fine with Paetsch/Pratt as the last pairing, but if neither is moved pair Spacek with Nate and keep Pratt as the 7th guy.

I also thought Funk looked like a serviceable depth guy (i.e. 7th or 8th) d-man.


Do not trade Lydman. Hes arguably one of our best D-men.

[OpIv37]

Do not trade Lydman. Hes arguably one of our best D-men.

he's also good for a blue line turnover that leads to a breakaway and at least 3 sloppy clears a game.

Being one of the 3 best D men on this year's Sabres is like being the 3rd smartest waterhead on the short bus. Tallinder's the only one worth a damn right now, although Weber Sekera and to a lesser extent Paetsch have potential.

[Dr. Lecter]

wait, the overhaul is two guys who weren't good enough all year? Didn't we try that with the fwd lines this year? Haven't the Bills tried that numerous times without success?

So what are we supposed to do for 2-3 years until they're good enough? Just keep losing? This is a team that was in the conf finals the last two years- we should have been adding the missing pieces instead of waiting on guys to get better. But this FO tore the team down and tried to get by with the shell of the team that remains. We're not going to get back to where we were with this flimsy foundation- we need to start over.

And what happens in 2-3 years when the FO lets them walk anyway?

The problem is that the real best players leave, and the best players who are left aren't good enough. That's the flaw in your argument- the best guys on the team still aren't good enough.

They were not good enough?

Here is the problem with your argument - you would never let young players develop or learn because they were not good enough. Jesus Christ. Briere, Campbell, Roy, Pominville, Vanek, Tallinder all spent time in the AHL.

I know you want to have a 100% roster overhaul every season. (OK, hyperbole on my part, I know).

Of course, with your inability to see that young players are not All-stars from year one in 99% of the cases, you are not willing to see anybody grow and develop.

Tell me, who is out there for defense? Are the Sabres supposed to sign Ray Bourque, Lindstrom, Coffey, Orr, Schoenfeld, and Larry Robinson all in their primes?

I understand your point about adding missing pieces after last year. Of course, it is not as easy as you think it is as there was not the room to do it, but lets not let facts confuse us. Regardless it was not done. So we are where we are now. Which is a team that lacks leadership and confidence. Of course you want to dump everybody.

Just last night you proposed a plan that would take at least 4-5 years to develop for success (dump everybody but 5 or so guys) and now you bash mine because it will take 2 or 3 years.

I just don't get it.

The best guys on this team now are not in their primes. The 2nd tier guys are not in their primes. They are still young, despite the experiences they have had. They were called upon to be leaders and they did not start doing that until late in the season (and if you doubt anybody is look at Roy and Pominville).

Like I said, I am not happy with what happened this year. But dismantling this team and its young, not in their prime talent is insane and makes zero sense. Giving up on a Drew Stafford will only make other GMs happy.

And you ***** in 2-3 years when he is at a top level.

Tell me, should the Bills dump Trent Edwards, Marshawn Lynch and Poz?

There were not good enough last year.

[Dr. Lecter]

I should have known better than to try and start a ****ing thread about something positive.

All I was trying to do was point out Sekera and Weber have played well.

God, this is impossible sometimes.

[Dr. Lecter]

he's also good for a blue line turnover that leads to a breakaway and at least 3 sloppy clears a game.

Being one of the 3 best D men on this year's Sabres is like being the 3rd smartest waterhead on the short bus. Tallinder's the only one worth a damn right now, although Weber Sekera and to a lesser extent Paetsch have potential.

BTW, Spacek played well most of the year. Not great, but decent.

[OpIv37]

They were not good enough?

Here is the problem with your argument - you would never let young players develop or learn because they were not good enough. Jesus Christ. Briere, Campbell, Roy, Pominville, Vanek, Tallinder all spent time in the AHL.

I know you want to have a 100% roster overhaul every season. (OK, hyperbole on my part, I know).

Of course, with your inability to see that young players are not All-stars from year one in 99% of the cases, you are not willing to see anybody grow and develop.

Tell me, who is out there for defense? Are the Sabres supposed to sign Ray Bourque, Lindstrom, Coffey, Orr, Schoenfeld, and Larry Robinson all in their primes?

I understand your point about adding missing pieces after last year. Of course, it is not as easy as you think it is as there was not the room to do it, but lets not let facts confuse us. Regardless it was not done. So we are where we are now. Which is a team that lacks leadership and confidence. Of course you want to dump everybody.

Just last night you proposed a plan that would take at least 4-5 years to develop for success (dump everybody but 5 or so guys) and now you bash mine because it will take 2 or 3 years.

I just don't get it.

The best guys on this team now are not in their primes. The 2nd tier guys are not in their primes. They are still young, despite the experiences they have had. They were called upon to be leaders and they did not start doing that until late in the season (and if you doubt anybody is look at Roy and Pominville).

Like I said, I am not happy with what happened this year. But dismantling this team and its young, not in their prime talent is insane and makes zero sense. Giving up on a Drew Stafford will only make other GMs happy.

And you ***** in 2-3 years when he is at a top level.

Tell me, should the Bills dump Trent Edwards, Marshawn Lynch and Poz?

There were not good enough last year.


You don't get it because you cling to this false notion that the guys on the current team are good enough. They weren't good enough with Briere and Drury, and they certainly weren't good enough without them. Many of them (and the team as a whole) regressed as the season went on. Your 2-3 year plan just means we'll start the rebuilding process in 2-3 years when it's painfully obvious- even to you- that this current crop is a failure. Your plan is actually the 5-8 year plan.

And your example with Edwards, Lynch, and Poz isn't even close to relevant. Many of the guys on this team- Vanek, Max, Lydman, Spacek, Kalinin come immediately to mind- have been around for a while and have been on deep playoff runs. And they STILL aren't good enough. To compare them to guys who are coming off their rookie season, with no experience, is just ridiculous.

You cling to this company line that the team is young and inexperienced, and that's simply not true. There's like 6 guys that fall into that category- that's it.

[OpIv37]

I should have known better than to try and start a ****ing thread about something positive.

All I was trying to do was point out Sekera and Weber have played well.

God, this is impossible sometimes.

who wants to hear it? This season is completely tanked. So what good did it do? Nothing.

You're like the guy who's bed-ridden with cancer saying "It's not so bad- at least I don't have to go to work." Or the guy who just lost all his possessions in a house fire saying "well, at least I have my health." The positive is the proverbial needle in the haystack. Or in this case, chocolate chip in a pile of **** would be a better example.

[Dr. Lecter]

You don't get it because you cling to this false notion that the guys on the current team are good enough. They weren't good enough with Briere and Drury, and they certainly weren't good enough without them. Many of them (and the team as a whole) regressed as the season went on. Your 2-3 year plan just means we'll start the rebuilding process in 2-3 years when it's painfully obvious- even to you- that this current crop is a failure. Your plan is actually the 5-8 year plan.

And your example with Edwards, Lynch, and Poz isn't even close to relevant. Many of the guys on this team- Vanek, Max, Lydman, Spacek, Kalinin come immediately to mind- have been around for a while and have been on deep playoff runs. And they STILL aren't good enough. To compare them to guys who are coming off their rookie season, with no experience, is just ridiculous.

You cling to this company line that the team is young and inexperienced, and that's simply not true. There's like 6 guys that fall into that category- that's it.

I am fine with dumping Max, Kalinin and Spacek OR Lydman.

Of course 3 or 4 players is much different than a total rebuild from scratch, which you advocate.

Dumping Vanek would be the worst move in franchise history. 3 years in the league, 3 years of 25 + goals. He still leads the team in goals this season.

The thing is, the current crop is NOT a failure. I know you will not see that. When teams doe snot win it all after coming close, you do nto re-build. You fix and re-tool. There is too much talent ont his team to have a fire sale and become the worst team in the league. There are too many simpel fixes (i.e. replace Thibault) that will help this team tremendously.

I still can't understand how yesterday you talked about not seeing this team enough to evaluate Guastad, but now can evaluate everybody else.

And how Roy and Pominville escape your criticism. Why are they good enough?

[Dr. Lecter]

who wants to hear it? This season is completely tanked. So what good did it do? Nothing.

You're like the guy who's bed-ridden with cancer saying "It's not so bad- at least I don't have to go to work." Or the guy who just lost all his possessions in a house fire saying "well, at least I have my health." The positive is the proverbial needle in the haystack. Or in this case, chocolate chip in a pile of **** would be a better example.

I ain't dying, so the cancer comparison is asinine. As matter of fact, all of your comparisons are 100% idiotic.

What good does it do? Well, it might give some people hope for next year and the future. We know this season is over. Nobody is happy. I know I am not.

But can't I say that I liked the play of these two guys?

There are 20 other threads to rip the team apart in.

What you are doing is much closer to what you ***** at the homers like skooby about (sorry skoob) when they don't rant in your rant threads.

There is not much positive about this season. Finding two young defensemen is something I like to see.

[JD]

:popcorn:

[Ebenezer]

I ain't dying, so the cancer comparison is asinine. As matter of fact, all of your comparisons are 100% idiotic.

What good does it do? Well, it might give some people hope for next year and the future. We know this season is over. Nobody is happy. I know I am not.

But can't I say that I liked the play of these two guys?

There are 20 other threads to rip the team apart in.

What you are doing is much closer to what you ***** at the homers like skooby about (sorry skoob) when they don't rant in your rant threads.

There is not much positive about this season. Finding two young defensemen is something I like to see.
I like Weber a lot.

[Michael82]

Do I need to remind you that we all liked Paetsch a lot last year and Stafford? Look how they were this year. Counting on two rookies/2nd year players to make your defense better is very risky. IMO, I like Sekera a lot, he's impressed me this year at Buffalo and Rochester, same thing with Weber. Funk is too damn raw to be in the NHL imo. But the biggest thing is, we need more than just the kids. I would like to see that waste of space, Kalinin traded, Spacek, maybe even Lydman (but I'm not sure on him, I still like his potential) and I would love to see the Sabres sign a couple of tough, gritty veteran defensemen.

[Ebenezer]

Do I need to remind you that we all liked Paetsch a lot last year and Stafford? Look how they were this year. Counting on two rookies/2nd year players to make your defense better is very risky. IMO, I like Sekera a lot, he's impressed me this year at Buffalo and Rochester, same thing with Weber. Funk is too damn raw to be in the NHL imo. But the biggest thing is, we need more than just the kids. I would like to see that waste of space, Kalinin traded, Spacek, maybe even Lydman (but I'm not sure on him, I still like his potential) and I would love to see the Sabres sign a couple of tough, gritty veteran defensemen.
again, same argument - the hope of trading (i.e., gutting) parts of the team in the hopes of getting one player that will turn it around...to get players of that magnitude will cost big time. Campbell was traded for a 1st and Bernier...what do you think it will cost to get a big, tough, established, veteran defenseman?? a lot more.

[Michael82]

again, same argument - the hope of trading (i.e., gutting) parts of the team in the hopes of getting one player that will turn it around...to get players of that magnitude will cost big time. Campbell was traded for a 1st and Bernier...what do you think it will cost to get a big, tough, established, veteran defenseman?? a lot more.
I would trade a bunch of the guys listed for draft picks, just to free up their salary. And then would sign a couple of tough, gritty veteran defensemen.

[OpIv37]

I am fine with dumping Max, Kalinin and Spacek OR Lydman.

Of course 3 or 4 players is much different than a total rebuild from scratch, which you advocate.

Dumping Vanek would be the worst move in franchise history. 3 years in the league, 3 years of 25 + goals. He still leads the team in goals this season.

The thing is, the current crop is NOT a failure. I know you will not see that. When teams doe snot win it all after coming close, you do nto re-build. You fix and re-tool. There is too much talent ont his team to have a fire sale and become the worst team in the league. There are too many simpel fixes (i.e. replace Thibault) that will help this team tremendously.

I still can't understand how yesterday you talked about not seeing this team enough to evaluate Guastad, but now can evaluate everybody else.

And how Roy and Pominville escape your criticism. Why are they good enough?

LAST year was the time to fix and re-tool. Instead, they tore down. Remember, this team plus Briere and Drury wasn't good enough to win the Cup- it's not re-tooling to improve on guys of that caliber- it's rebuilding. You're just flat out wrong when you say this team has too much talent. They have maybe 8 guys that are worth a damn. If we stay the course, we're gonna be in the middle of the pack next year and the worst team in the league the year after when everyone leaves.

It's impossible to replace everyone, and Roy and Pominville are the best guys we have. In fact, Roy's having a career season.

[Dr. Lecter]

LAST year was the time to fix and re-tool. Instead, they tore down. Remember, this team plus Briere and Drury wasn't good enough to win the Cup- it's not re-tooling to improve on guys of that caliber- it's rebuilding. You're just flat out wrong when you say this team has too much talent. They have maybe 8 guys that are worth a damn. If we stay the course, we're gonna be in the middle of the pack next year and the worst team in the league the year after when everyone leaves.

It's impossible to replace everyone, and Roy and Pominville are the best guys we have. In fact, Roy's having a career season.

I guess the career year is not good enough. And he will never get better, only worse as he is past his prime.

Dump him.

(at least using your logic on all players on the team)

[OpIv37]

I guess the career year is not good enough. And he will never get better, only worse as he is past his prime.

Dump him.

(at least using your logic on all players on the team)

wait, a second ago you were trashing me for saying we should keep Roy, now you're saying that I said we should dump him (in fact, I said the exact opposite).

So make up your mind.

you're completely distorting what I said. There are a handful of guys on this team who are decent and Roy's one of them- those guys should be kept and the rest should be dumped. There's no reason to dump a guy having a career year- and I never said or implied that. I said we should dump all the mediocre guys who are not improving.