I actually want the Bills to keep JP this season........

[Mitchy moo]

I really cannot see another person that can come in & win us a game with the long bomb, that's available for us to pick up outside of our team. JP is currently an asset that we have under contract and that fits a need we cannot easily replace if he left. JP knows the system & how it's played. Even though he is incapable of executing at a high level consistently, we know that if it's the Jets or the Fins we are playing he can handle it. We can draft a back-up QB late in this draft just to have someone to work with, the extra 7th rounder might not be a bad spot.

Either way I'd like to see JP stick around one more season and see how Trent's health holds up, just in case.

[ddaryl]

me too!...

But if someone offers us a 2nd rd pick we pull the tirgger.... but anything less we need JP to be there as a backup.

The Bills will probably be looking at day 2 QB's this year during the draft.

[RockStar36]

I don't care either way.

As long as JP plays nice and realized that TE is now the starter, I'm fine with him being the back-up. If he starts to be a cancer in the locker room than he should be moved asap.

[justasportsfan]

I don't care either way.

As long as JP plays nice and realized that TE is now the starter, I'm fine with him being the back-up. If he starts to be a cancer in the locker room than he should be moved asap.
I don't want JP if he settles to be a back up. I don't want any player who settles to be a back up. I want players who have the drive to be the best in whatever it is they do.

[Mitchy moo]

This is too funny, Acehole wrote:


If we cut JP ...he would be on a new team in a week.

If we got a good enough offer he would be off this team.

The Bills are smart enough to know a couple of things that you don't.

JP is insurance for Trend.

Trend is injury prone....was in school and he is in the NFL.
(I dont want hear ...but he is piosed please)

Trend is still inspite of the Montanna comparisons an unknown.

1.9mill is ok for a back up.

Knows the system.

So can we stop with the ever story means JP sucks threads.

You got your wish Trend is the starter...what are you people arguing anyway?

Put your JP voodoo dolls away and talk football if you can.

Oh yea and ...Maijami sucks.

[YardRat]

Too much of a distraction, whether it's intentional or not. Trade him, and get a vet to back-up/fill in for one or two years.

[yordad]

Is it funny, or funny acehole wrote it?

[Mitchy moo]

Is it funny, or funny acehole wrote it?

More funny than Acehole wrote it, I just thought it was classic.

[patmoran2006]

They're going to keep him, because absolutely nobody is interested in trading for him. Or at least nobody is going to offer anything of any value.

He'll play out this year and whether he sees the field zero times or ends up playing alot, he's long gone after this season. I dont like him as a starting QB, frankly I think he's a bumbling idiot; but he's been dicked over by this organzation and I'm sure he's counting down the days until he can be gone.

[Yasgur's Farm]

me too!...

But if someone offers us a 2nd rd pick we pull the tirgger.... but anything less we need JP to be there as a backup.

The Bills will probably be looking at day 2 QB's this year during the draft.I'd consider it for a 2nd rounder... BUT nothing less!

[Mitchy moo]

They're going to keep him, because absolutely nobody is interested in trading for him. Or at least nobody is going to offer anything of any value.

He'll play out this year and whether he sees the field zero times or ends up playing alot, he's long gone after this season. I dont like him as a starting QB, frankly I think he's a bumbling idiot; but he's been dicked over by this organzation and I'm sure he's counting down the days until he can be gone.

Regardless, he is a temporary insurance policy on Trent's health. Hopefully the Offensive plays this year require a higher education to read than the 5th grader levels of last year. The scary part is ML ran really well for everyone knowing when we we're going to run. Can you imagine how he would do if the defenses we play actually we're thrown off guard by a run??

[FlyingDutchman]

We should have lost to the dolphins when JP played against them. He didnt convert a 3rd down until the last drive. JP eeked by the Jets both times. I wouldnt say he plays good against ANYONE...well there is the Texans...Considering his poor production, its not worth the possible headache or distraction he could end up being. Hes handled all this with class and I dont think hed be a jerk about it, but its kinda like workin after youve given your two week notice. I just dont know how you can say keep him around bc he knows the system, when he is clearly incapable of "executing" the system.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Trent started both Jets games... JP came in in the 4th quarter to pull out the second game.

[mybills]

Why do people think he's a locker room cancer. He's never even said anything bad enough to HINT at being one. He'll stay, honor his contract, and either out play Trent if he gets a chance or he'll move on.

Teams that are in need of a QB are also in need of other players..they need their early picks to get them.

besides, JP will be there next year if they don't get him this year. I don't think anyone is worried about that. Unless of course, he does out play Trent, becomes the starter, then resigns with the Bills. :snicker:

[acehole]

Thank for rewording my post and thoughts...


I really cannot see another person that can come in & win us a game with the long bomb, that's available for us to pick up outside of our team. JP is currently an asset that we have under contract and that fits a need we cannot easily replace if he left. JP knows the system & how it's played. Even though he is incapable of executing at a high level consistently, we know that if it's the Jets or the Fins we are playing he can handle it. We can draft a back-up QB late in this draft just to have someone to work with, the extra 7th rounder might not be a bad spot.

Either way I'd like to see JP stick around one more season and see how Trent's health holds up, just in case.

[coastal]

Too much of a distraction, whether it's intentional or not. Trade him, and get a vet to back-up/fill in for one or two years.I don't see JP being a distraction at all.

I think we can do a lot worse than JP as a backup.

Odds are, he is going to get some playing time this year due to an injury.

What sucks is that JP and Trent have two entirely different skill sets, so if JP has to come in for a handful of games it will totally change the focus and rhthym of the offense.

If something like that does go down, Ill be interested to see if Turk can create a game plan that actually plays to his strengths.

God kows Fairchild couldn't figure it out.

[HAMMER]

I don't want JP if he settles to be a back up. I don't want any player who settles to be a back up. I want players who have the drive to be the best in whatever it is they do.

He's under contract, he doesn't want to be the back up he wants to start.

[Mitchy moo]

I don't see JP being a distraction at all.

I think we can do a lot worse than JP as a backup.

Odds are, he is going to get some playing time this year due to an injury.

What sucks is that JP and Trent have two entirely different skill sets, so if JP has to come in for a handful of games it will totally change the focus and rhthym of the offense.

If something like that does go down, Ill be interested to see if Turk can create a game plan that actually plays to his strengths.

God kows Fairchild couldn't figure it out.

Fairchild was out the door well before the season ended.

[coastal]

Fairchild was out the door well before the season ended.Hopefully Perry is next.

[Mr. Pink]

I really cannot see another person that can come in & win us a game with the long bomb, that's available for us to pick up outside of our team. JP is currently an asset that we have under contract and that fits a need we cannot easily replace if he left. JP knows the system & how it's played. Even though he is incapable of executing at a high level consistently, we know that if it's the Jets or the Fins we are playing he can handle it. We can draft a back-up QB late in this draft just to have someone to work with, the extra 7th rounder might not be a bad spot.

Either way I'd like to see JP stick around one more season and see how Trent's health holds up, just in case.

I can't see anyone come in and do much worse if at all. Losman = Boller = Grossman = Harrington = Carr.

If you want someone who can throw the long bomb, just sign Jeff George for league minimum.

JP is an asset? What asset is that? That he can throw the ball up, hope and pray?

Know the system? I'd assume that Turk is gonna install a new system, especially seeing not too many people liked Fairchild's. Hence, he doesn't know the system. Plus he's a completely different QB than the projected starter.

I agree on drafting a project QB though.

[VeggieMan14]

unless we get a second for him id like to see him stay. if he becomes a cancer deal him. but i think he would be great depth. i mean if we are on the one yard line down 3 with 15 seconds put him in Nd let him throw the bomb the only thging he can do well. and he knows the system (that is if it stays the same) so if Trent gets hurt we have a capable backup

[yordad]

I think acehole has some good stuff on this subject.

[Mitchy moo]

I think acehole has some good stuff on this subject.

I think it's a moment of clarity.

[Jan Reimers]

There is absolutely no indication the JP will be a cancer or a distraction.

And there is no total assurance that Trent will a quality QB.

So why be so quick to jetison JP?

[justasportsfan]

There is absolutely no indication the JP will be a cancer or a distraction.

And there is no total assurance that Trent will a quality QB.

So why be so quick to jetison JP?
Hate

[Mr. Pink]

Hate

Because there's no reason for him to be on this team anymore is hate?

Because he's gonna walk next offseason anyways is hate?

Deal him and get whatever you can for him to help improve this team. Keeping him does not improve the team.

[justasportsfan]

Because there's no reason for him to be on this team anymore is hate?.the guilty speaks. There's already been several reasons stated as to why he should stay. You're the only one insisting Couch is better. :crazy:



Because he's gonna walk next offseason anyways is hate?.
I only care about this coming season. I'm worried about Trents durability. JP's the best plan B. Not Couch or Hamdan.



Deal him and get whatever you can for him to help improve this team. Keeping him does not improve the team. You just proved me right. NO common sense but hate.

[Jan Reimers]

Just as Trent will be better with another quality WR (or two), an athletic, pass catching TE, an OC with a brain, and a more experienced Marshawn Lynch, so will JP, even in a backup role.

Given the fact that Trent has started only 9 games, and missed some time with injury, why not keep the backup who is most familiar with our system and who will benefit as much - or more - from our offensive improvements?

[Mr. Pink]

the guilty speaks. There's already been several reasons stated as to why he should stay. You're the only one insisting Couch is better. :crazy:



I only care about this coming season. I'm worried about Trents durability. JP's the best plan B. Not Couch or Hamdan.


You just proved me right. NO common sense but hate.

Couch is and was the better QB over his NFL career, I've proven that. Not that being better than JP Losman is anything to write home about.

What does JP offer that someone still in FA doesn't? Such as Culpepper for example or Byron Leftwich.

You keep saying Losman is the best Plan B yet Culpepper and Leftwich, both still available, are better options than Losman with careers that prove it.

[justasportsfan]

Just as Trent will be better with another quality WR (or two), an athletic, pass catching TE, an OC with a brain, and a more experienced Marshawn Lynch, so will JP, even in a backup role.? Maybe even as a starter. He's already thrown for 3000 yards with a crappier OL than what we had last year and only Lee.


why not keep the backup who is most familiar with our system and who will benefit as much - or more - from our offensive improvements?

Hate.

[Mr. Pink]

Just as Trent will be better with another quality WR (or two), an athletic, pass catching TE, an OC with a brain, and a more experienced Marshawn Lynch, so will JP, even in a backup role.

Given the fact that Trent has started only 9 games, and missed some time with injury, why not keep the backup who is most familiar with our system and who will benefit as much - or more - from our offensive improvements?

A new coordinator means new system. Especially seeing everyone HATED Fairchild's system. Plus the system is gonna be tailored around Trent, the guy who is our starting QB right now. Edwards and JP are two completely different type of players.

So, the whole JP already knows the system is complete crap. And even if he did, he can't execute it anyways.

[justasportsfan]

A new coordinator means new system. Especially seeing everyone HATED Fairchild's system. Plus the system is gonna be tailored around Trent, the guy who is our starting QB right now. Edwards and JP are two completely different type of players.

So, the whole JP already knows the system is complete crap. And even if he did, he can't execute it anyways.

where have you been hiding? Get a clue. Seriously, you're starting to look more like a clueless browns fan hanging around on a bills mb.

[TacklingDummy]

Can't change any lickers mind.

[Mr. Pink]

where have you been hiding? Get a clue.

I love how you can't debate or have an adult conversation...

You have to rely on throwing out excuses or turn in to a three year old throwing out insults.

Keep up the good work.

[justasportsfan]

Can't change any lickers mind.


we lickers want whats best for the team.

[TacklingDummy]

we lickers want whats best for the team.

What's best for the team is to trade Losman for a draft pick and bring someone in who can help.

But I doubt that happens, no one wants him.

[justasportsfan]

I love how you can't debate or have an adult conversation...

You have to rely on throwing out excuses or turn in to a three year old throwing out insults.

Keep up the good work.

You're obviously clueless. It's been said several times that we aren't changing systems. Turks already confirmed that. WE're just adding/subtracting some things.

[Mr. Pink]

we lickers want whats best for the team.

And again, how is keeping JP, best for the team?

What does JP give us that Byron Leftwich wouldn't?

Or that Daunte Culpepper wouldn't?

[justasportsfan]

What's best for the team is to trade Losman for a draft pick and bring someone in who can help.

But I doubt that happens, no one wants him.
Like I siad, pure hate. No common sense.

[acehole]

More funny than Acehole wrote it, I just thought it was classic.


Thanks?

[yordad]

And again, how is keeping JP, best for the team?

What does JP give us that Byron Leftwich wouldn't?

Or that Daunte Culpepper wouldn't?Um... how about a better, more system experienced QB for less money. One all the player like and respect. One familiar with everyone's strengths and weaknesses. One who the staff is familiar with. AND, THE ONE WE ALREADY HAVE.

:bandwagon

[Jan Reimers]

Um... how about a better, more system experienced QB for less money. One all the player like and respect. One familiar with everyone's strengths and weaknesses. One who the staff is familiar with. AND, THE ONE WE ALREADY HAVE.

:bandwagon
Not to mention, the one who isn't a lumbering goon who can't get out of his own way.

[Mr. Pink]

Um... how about a better, more system experienced QB for less money. One all the player like and respect. One familiar with everyone's strengths and weaknesses. One who the staff is familiar with. AND, THE ONE WE ALREADY HAVE.

:bandwagon

:rofl:

You're really trying to suggest Losman is better than Culpepper or Leftwich? Seriously? It's not hard to prove, in fact, it should take all of 5 seconds for you to figure it out, that Pep and Leftwich are clearly better QBs in this league.

And neither Leftwich or Culpepper would command big money anymore. They could be had for the same or less than what we pay Losman now.

You can quote his familiarity all you want, it doesn't translate to results on the field. What matters more, on the field results or familiarity?

[Mitchy moo]

:rofl:

You're really trying to suggest Losman is better than Culpepper or Leftwich? Seriously? It's not hard to prove, in fact, it should take all of 5 seconds for you to figure it out, that Pep and Leftwich are clearly better QBs in this league.

And neither Leftwich or Culpepper would command big money anymore. They could be had for the same or less than what we pay Losman now.

You can quote his familiarity all you want, it doesn't translate to results on the field. What matters more, on the field results or familiarity?


Leftwich maybe, culpepper no way.

[mybills]

What's best for the team is to trade Losman for a draft pick and bring someone in who can help.

But I doubt that happens, no one wants him.
We have 10 draft picks. How many more do you want?
We don't need to deal him now, when we have other needs.

[Mr. Pink]

We have 10 draft picks. How many more do you want?
We don't need to deal him now, when we have other needs.

So we should just let him walk for nothing after this season instead?

[mybills]

So we should just let him walk for nothing after this season instead?
But the haters say he's not worth a damn. So why would it matter?

[justasportsfan]

:rofl:

You're really trying to suggest Losman is better than Culpepper or Leftwich? Seriously? It's not hard to prove, in fact, it should take all of 5 seconds for you to figure it out, that Pep and Leftwich are clearly better QBs in this league.


I can prove to you JP is better than Couch (Ihave facts) but what do you care about proof if it doesn't agree with your OPINION ?

[Mr. Pink]

I can prove to you JP is better than Couch (Ihave facts) but what do you care about proof if it doesn't agree with your OPINION ?

:rofl:

This should be good. I've seen both play. I've seen Couch lead a team to the playoffs. I've seen Couch perform better than JP with even less offensive weapons.

Have you ever seen Tim Couch play? Or remember him playing?

Go for it, prove JP Losman is a better QB.

[Mr. Pink]

But the haters say he's not worth a damn. So why would it matter?

Because he's taking up a roster spot, a roster spot he no longer deserves here.

[justasportsfan]

This should be good. I've seen both play. I've seen Couch lead a team to the playoffs. I've seen Couch perform better than JP with even less offensive weapons.

Have you ever seen Tim Couch play? Or remember him playing?. JU understan engli? I said IS better. NOt WAS better.




Go for it, prove JP Losman is a better QB.

32 teams don't even think Couch better than their 3rd string qb.

Theres your proof. Don't tell me you know better than those 32 teams.

OWNED!!!!

[Mr. Pink]

32 teams don't even think Couch better than their 3rd string qb.

There's proof.

OWNED!!!!


Couch's career started 5 years before JP...saying that because JP is still in the league and Couch isn't as your basis for who's better is really stupid. When JP still gets invited to an NFL camp in 5 years let me know.

Do your posts ever have any substance, or are they all truly stupid?

[justasportsfan]

Couch's career started 5 years before JP...saying that because JP is still in the league and Couch isn't as your basis for who's better is really stupid. When JP still gets invited to an NFL camp in 5 years let me know.

Do your posts ever have any substance, or are they all truly stupid?


you said he's better. Talking in a present state. You're the one who said that Couch would be a better option than JP now. Not my fault he's been gone for 5 years.




On August 18, Couch failed to make the 3rd string and was released. Ironically, the next week, the Jaguars released former starter Byron Leftwich and Lester Ricard and do not have any 3rd string quarterback. ?
Couch :rofl:





Do your posts ever have any substance, or are they all truly stupid?
anyone who thinks Cocuh would be a better option than JP as our back up should not talk about substance. It's an idiotic post.

[justasportsfan]

tell me FTY, would you be happy if JP would have a 3500 yard season with 27 td's and 19 int's for a qb rating of 80 ?

[Mr. Pink]

you said he's better. Talking in a present state. You're the one who said that Couch would be a better option than JP now. Not my fault he's been gone for 5 years.




Couch :rofl:



anyone who thinks Cocuh would be a better option than JP as our back up should not talk about substance. It's an idiotic post.

Dude had a surgically repaired shoulder and then the HGH scandal. You think that might have anything to do with why teams don't want him anymore? Maybe. Perhaps.

Doesn't mean that JP is a better QB, just means Couch is damaged goods with a huge character flaw.

And as I've always maintained, they're both BUSTS. Watching both's play on the field, I'd still rather have Couch behind center than JP. Go with every team in the NFL...I'd take their starter over JP in a heartbeat.

Something you fail to grasp.

You keep hanging on this sliver of hope that one day he's gonna turn the corner. One day he'll finally get it. One day he'll finally understand the speed of the NFL game. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

But you keep accepting mediocrity. You keep accepting losing seasons. You keep accepting being on the outside looking in for the playoffs. With the players you support and want around, you're getting exactly what you deserve.

Problem is, most people are sick of settling for the crap we've seen on the field and want to move forward. Unfortunately, there are a few of you who can seem to get their lips off JPs jocky strap. What has JP ever done for the team? Nothing. I could care less what he does off the field nor how many trees he plants or streets he cleans. If he wants a job in public service he can run for Mayor or garbage man or street sweeper. His job is to be an NFL QB and lead this team. He fails miserably in that department.

Hell, I wish back in 85 we kept Bruce Mathison, maybe he woulda developed into something. I'll just use your logic Justa. Getting rid of Mathison was wrong, he shoulda been given the chance.

[Mr. Pink]

tell me FTY, would you be happy if JP would have a 3500 yard season with 27 td's and 19 int's for a qb rating of 80 ?

Where is he gonna do that? The CFL or Arena League?

It sure as hell will never happen in the NFL.

[Oaf]

Taken from labill at http://buffalorumblings.com/story/2008/3/31/151837/749#commenttop

"Especially since we got the comps, why would we trade J.P. for a late 2nd day pick, when we can keep him this year for a cheap salary and receive a 2nd day pick as compensatory pick for losing him to free agency next year anyway? I understand that we may not get a compensatory pick for him next year, which depends on the overall FA losses and gains), but I certainly don't understand the strong desire to trade him for a 4 - 6 th round pick."


I am in full agreement of that.

[mybills]

Because he's taking up a roster spot, a roster spot he no longer deserves here.
See? That's hate. That's not what the coaches think. Haters want him gone because they hate him. (period).

[trapezeus]

my hope is that JP gets at least 3 more chances to prove himself. because he's been done in by poor coaching, bad players and any accountability to his own pathetic play.

Ideally, I'd like to see him get to start with perfect weather and tinkerbell sitting on his shoulder. I'm hoping The Matrix-like time stopping effects can start happening to give our strong armed leader a chance to really show us that he's better than a 9-20 (whatever his record as starter is) record.

Additionally, i hope our great QB gets to have 8 All-star pro receivers, 3 NFL alltime great RB's and the former berlin wall as an O line. Maybe a pair of glasses that lets him read and even comprehend the playbook that's been handed to him would be a nice touch.

May all the defenses he faces be as complicated as the 90's Tecmo Bowl games. Hopefully after an HGH investigation in the NFL all the defenses will be a bunch of 5'8" LBs.

I hope that the football is made out of chocolate so that every player can taste the sweet sweet goodness of JP's passes.

I hope JP has been working at Roswelll Park during the offseason finishing his thesis on curing cancer. I hope JP can stand in Niagara river and stop the mighty rush of the falls. I also think that JP can revive the economy on a global basis as well as get astronauts to Mars. Maybe if he's given enough time to show all his wonderful skills he'll get us to land on the sun and harness all its power to get us off imported Oil.

Oh JP, What can't you do?

[justasportsfan]

Where is he gonna do that? The CFL or Arena League?

It sure as hell will never happen in the NFL.
would that be a good season for a qb?


He did it with a crappy OL and only Lee as a weapon. Hardly any help from a rb that wanted out. You're starting to look more cluless if you think he can't achieve that with better weapons and decent playcalling.

[acehole]

Just as Trent will be better with another quality WR (or two), an athletic, pass catching TE, an OC with a brain, and a more experienced Marshawn Lynch, so will JP, even in a backup role.

Given the fact that Trent has started only 9 games, and missed some time with injury, why not keep the backup who is most familiar with our system and who will benefit as much - or more - from our offensive improvements?


Because JP refuse an autograph for funtimes.....waaa waaa

[justasportsfan]

Because JP refuse an autograph for funtimes.....waaa waaa
:posrep:

sent you the wrong rep that was suppose to go to shelby :ill:

[Luisito23]

:meh:

[yordad]

Like I siad, pure hate. No common sense.It is blame. If JP is the problem, then all we have to do is get rid of him and we are Super Bowl bound. If he isn't the problem, then our problem is bigger.

[acehole]

:rofl:

This should be good. I've seen both play. I've seen Couch lead a team to the playoffs. I've seen Couch perform better than JP with even less offensive weapons.

Have you ever seen Tim Couch play? Or remember him playing?

Go for it, prove JP Losman is a better QB.

Tim couch sucks...go to the browns board and talk this stuff.

Timmy had B Edwards and Kellen Winslow and could not hack it.

We got the memo...you hate JP.....please post some original new thoughts....

[yordad]

would that be a good season for a qb?


He did it with a crappy OL and only Lee as a weapon. Hardly any help from a rb that wanted out. You're starting to look more cluless if you think he can't achieve that with better weapons and decent playcalling.This was a sweet set up and burn. Really showed who the clueless one was. Man, I thought that guy was making some sense on other issues, but he was so far off with bias on this one....... I am scratching my head. :headscrat

[acehole]

:posrep:

sent you the wrong rep that was suppose to go to shelby :ill:
?

[justasportsfan]

It is blame. If JP is the problem, then all we have to do is get rid of him and we are Super Bowl bound. If he isn't the problem, then our problem is bigger.
I agree. Like I've said he was the scapegoat for everyone else that had a hand with this teams failures.


I wonder if he'll sack Turk or bench Trent if we end up 30th in the league again. Rather than accept fault and say he screwed up with Fairchild, it was easier to just blame JP

JP had no OL and had no weapons and had no OC. That was all FO's mistake. Rather than accept fault it's easier to just put in their drafted qb and move on.

JP is not blameless in all this. He's made his mistakes but it's hard not to make mistakes when you have nothing but Lee to work with. It hard to battle teams that have smarter coaches with nothing.

This is why Marv, Dick and the players (who especially called out playcalling) defended JP.

Rather than accept fault for not building a team around JP or admitting he screwed up by hiring Fairchild, it was easier for Dick to just bench JP . After all dinking and dunking and playing not to lose looked better than what was supposed to be a deep ball -down the field system.

When Trent tried to play deep ball, he looked like a rookie caught in headlights. See the 2nd jets game.

[justasportsfan]

This was a sweet set up and burn. Really showed who the clueless one was. Man, I thought that guy was making some sense on other issues, but he was so far off with bias on this one....... I am scratching my head. :headscrat


He's a clueless browns fan . Hard to argue with someone who's uses his hatred emotions to come up with an argument. They don't make sense.

[Mitchy moo]

He's a clueless browns fan . Hard to argue with someone who's uses his hatred emotions to come up with an argument. They don't make sense.

How far from "browns fan" / "They don't make sense" did you need to go?

[yordad]

I agree. Like I've said he was the scapegoat for everyone else that had a hand with this teams failures.


I wonder if he'll sack Turk or bench Trent if we end up 30th in the league again. Rather than accept fault and say he screwed up with Fairchild, it was easier to just blame JP

JP had no OL and had no weapons and had no OC. That was all FO's mistake. Rather than accept fault it's easier to just put in their drafted qb and move on.

JP is not blameless in all this. He's made his mistakes but it's hard not to make mistakes when you have nothing but Lee to work with. It hard to battle teams that have smarter coaches with nothing.

This is why Marv, Dick and the players (who especially called out playcalling) defended JP.

Rather than accept fault for not building a team around JP or admitting he screwed up by hiring Fairchild, it was easier for Dick to just bench JP . After all dinking and dunking and playing not to lose looked better than what was supposed to be a deep ball -down the field system.

When Trent tried to play deep ball, he looked like a rookie caught in headlights. See the 2nd jets game.Yeah, lets review....

1) we have a strong armed QB
2) we have speed at Wide out
3) we get rid of a FB, and add an H-back
4) we bring in the old assistant to Martz (the orchestrator to the "greatest show on turf")
5) we draft a dual threat capable reciever for a RB
6) we promise to open up the offense after a promising '06

And then we try to dink-n-dunk with a power running game? It makes ZERO sense.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, lets review....

1) we have a strong armed QB
2) we have speed at Wide out
3) we get rid of a FB, and add an H-back
4) we bring in the old assistant to Martz (the orchestrator to the "greatest show on turf")
5) we draft a dual threat capable reciever for a RB
6) we promise to open up the offense after a promising '06

And then we try to dink-n-dunk with a power running game? It makes ZERO sense.
we also forced a mobile qb to stay in the pocket with a crappy OL in 06 and a new OL in 07. Both OLs struggling to hold when both qbs tried to go deep with the only weapon this team had. The best way to overcome that was either to dink the ball out quick or let the qb scramble which he wasn't allowed to do.

I'm almost sure that if Jp was allowed to run with the ball, we wouldn't be talking about Trents dinks and dunks moving the chains.

[Mitchy moo]

we also forced a mobile qb to stay in the pocket with a crappy OL in 06 and a new OL in 07. Both OLs struggling to hold when both qbs tried to go deep with the only weapon this team had. The best way to overcome that was either to dink the ball out quick or let the qb scramble which he wasn't allowed to do.

I'm almost sure that if Jp was allowed to run with the ball, we wouldn't be talking about Trents dinks and dunks moving the chains.

Justa, let me ask you a few questions. If JP is standing on a football field and had a stationary target to throw at, would he be more likely to hit that target while running or while standing still? Ok, now lets add defenders near the stationary target how about then?? Now let's make it a moving target and add defenders, how about then?

Now let's add people trying to defend JP, would they be more likely to defend a moving QB or one they know where he is standing?? Mobile QB's sound great in theory and scrambling around and making a big pass as well but in the long run it just doesn't work.

Fundamentally speaking, the QB position is designed to be utilized in a small pocket and defended there. Any variance from that area lowers the odds of success for just the reasons I just mentioned above.

[Mitchy moo]

Please review the last 9 Super bowl winning teams and find me the starting QB on the team that won it.

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="95%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XXXIV (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXIV.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">1/30/00</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>St. Louis Rams NFC
vs Tennessee Titans AFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXIV_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>23-16 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXIV.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Dick Vermeil
/ Jeff Fisher</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">Atlanta, GA</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XXXV (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXV.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">1/28/01</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Baltimore Ravens AFC
vsN.Y. Giants NFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXV_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>34-7 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXV.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Brian Billick (http://www.sportspool.com/football/nfl_history/nfl_football_league_records_superbowlwinners.php#)
/ Jim Fassel</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">Tampa, FL</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XXXVI (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVI.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">2/3/02</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>New England Patriots AFC
vs St. Louis Rams NFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVI_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>20-17 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVI.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Bill Belichick
/ Mike Martz (http://www.sportspool.com/football/nfl_history/nfl_football_league_records_superbowlwinners.php#)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">New Orleans, LA</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XXXVII (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVII.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">1/26/03</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Tampa Bay Bucaneers NFC
vs Oakland Raiders AFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVII_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>48-21 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVII.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Jon Gruden (http://www.sportspool.com/football/nfl_history/nfl_football_league_records_superbowlwinners.php#)
/ Bill Callahan </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">San Diego, CA</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XXXVIII (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVIII.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">2/1/04</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>New England Patriots AFC
vs Carolina Panthers NFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVIII_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>32-29 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXVIII.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Bill Belichick
/ John Fox</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">Houston, Texas</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XXXIX (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXIX.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">2/6/05</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>New England Patriots AFC
vs Philadelphia Eagles NFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXIX_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>24-21 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XXXIX.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Bill Belichick
/ Andy Reid (http://www.sportspool.com/football/nfl_history/nfl_football_league_records_superbowlwinners.php#)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">Jacksonville, Florida</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XL (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XL.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">2/5/06</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Pittsburgh Steelers AFC
vs Seattle Seahawks NFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XL_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>21-10 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XL.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Bill Cowher
/ Mike Holmgren</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">Detroit, Michigan</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XLI (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XLI.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">2/4/07</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Indianapolis Colts AFC
vs Chicago Bears NFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XLI_roster.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>29-17 (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XLI.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="2" bkXW6="0">Tony Dungy
/ Lovie Smith</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">Miami, Florida</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>XLII (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XLII.php)</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left pRbmf="0" bkXW6="0">2/3/08</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>New York Giants NFC
vs New England Patriots AFC (http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XLII_roster.php)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Justa, let me ask you a few questions. If JP is standing on a football field and had a stationary target to throw at, would he be more likely to hit that target while running or while standing still? Ok, now lets add defenders near the stationary target how about then?? Now let's make it a moving target and add defenders, how about then?

Now let's add people trying to defend JP, would they be more likely to defend a moving QB or one they know where he is standing?? Mobile QB's sound great in theory and scrambling around and making a big pass as well but in the long run it just doesn't work.

Fundamentally speaking, the QB position is designed to be utilized in a small pocket and defended there. Any variance from that area lowers the odds of success for just the reasons I just mentioned above.

[justasportsfan]

Justa, let me ask you a few questions. If JP is standing on a football field and had a stationary target to throw at, would he be more likely to hit that target while running or while standing still?.standing still.


Ok, now lets add defenders near the stationary target how about then?? . what about it? whats your question


Now let's make it a moving target and add defenders, how about then? . will the qb be under pressure by a DL or not. Whats your question?

Make a point.



Now let's add people trying to defend JP, would they be more likely to defend a moving QB or one they know where he is standing?? Mobile QB's sound great in theory and scrambling around and making a big pass as well but in the long run it just doesn't work.. it's better than standing there with an Ol that can't hold. Flutie ran with the ball and we made playoffs. Rob Johnson held on to the ball and we got no where.

Steve Young ran the ball all the way to a HOF . Same goes with Elway. It may not be the answer but it sure is better than being forced to stay in the middle of a struggling OL.



Fundamentally speaking, the QB position is designed to be utilized in a small pocket and defended there. Any variance from that area lowers the odds of success for just the reasons I just mentioned above. fundamentally speaking a stationary qb has to have an OL or he's DEAD! Manning without an OL could be on IR every year.

[acehole]

Some qbs can make plays on ther feet JP is one of those...Blesoe was not.
Does not mean JP is weak at being a pocket passer.

This idea that JP can only throw the long ball even though stats show the opposite are also foolish.

If anything Trent has shown he is the one trick pony throwing short most of the time ....pulls in the safties.....and make the running game harder to pull off.

There is another dimension to this as well....calling roll outs and boot legs would have played to JP's abilitys....but that is not the whole story. When a play breaks down ala Eli in the superbowl you have to be able to scramble at times to either run or make a good throw on the run..which JP has shown he can do as well....too bad our offense was a dream for Defensive coordinators to defend...um you two cover Lee.....and you 8 stop M Lynch.Oh and PS the ball is run up the middle with no play action 93% of the time. 5% is Lee on the go route 2% are random plays that we did not practice during the week.



Justa, let me ask you a few questions. If JP is standing on a football field and had a stationary target to throw at, would he be more likely to hit that target while running or while standing still? Ok, now lets add defenders near the stationary target how about then?? Now let's make it a moving target and add defenders, how about then?

Now let's add people trying to defend JP, would they be more likely to defend a moving QB or one they know where he is standing?? Mobile QB's sound great in theory and scrambling around and making a big pass as well but in the long run it just doesn't work.

Fundamentally speaking, the QB position is designed to be utilized in a small pocket and defended there. Any variance from that area lowers the odds of success for just the reasons I just mentioned above.

[mybills]

it's better than standing there with an Ol that can't hold. Flutie ran with the ball and we made playoffs. Rob Johnson held on to the ball and we got no where.

Steve Young ran the ball all the way to a HOF . Same goes with Elway. It may not be the answer but it sure is better than being forced to stay in the middle of a struggling OL.


fundamentally speaking a stationary qb has to have an OL or he's DEAD! Manning without an OL could be on IR every year.
:10: :bf1: :10:
Af'ingmen!

[Mitchy moo]

You cannot argue the fact that a majority of the winning SB teams over the past 9 years had a pocket passing style.

[Mitchy moo]

Our line weighs a ton, literally. They should be able to create a pocket for the 3 step drop.

[justasportsfan]

You cannot argue the fact that a majority of the winning SB teams over the past 9 years had a pocket passing style.
I do not disagree but those qb's were given the necessary weapons or OL to succeed. They were also had decent to great OC's that know how to use thier qb's according to their strengths.

If you want JP to stay in the pocket , at least give him an OL so that he can develop properly instead of spending his time running for his life. He wasn't even allowed to try to gain some yards when the OL broke down which was most of the time.

Without an OL Trent would be DEAD too. Why do you think they are trying to go with a 3 step drop? That's so that he can get rid of the ball fast. Something Fairchild didn't have a brain for.

[djjimkelly]

I don't see JP being a distraction at all.

I think we can do a lot worse than JP as a backup.

Odds are, he is going to get some playing time this year due to an injury.

What sucks is that JP and Trent have two entirely different skill sets, so if JP has to come in for a handful of games it will totally change the focus and rhthym of the offense.

If something like that does go down, Ill be interested to see if Turk can create a game plan that actually plays to his strengths.

God kows Fairchild couldn't figure it out.


yeah fairchild would run bootleg action with trent last year and not with JP go figure we truly had a tool calling the plays

[Mitchy moo]

I do not disagree but those qb's were given the necessary weapons or OL to succeed. They were also had decent to great OC's that know how to use thier qb's according to their strengths.

If you want JP to stay in the pocket , at least give him an OL so that he can develop properly instead of spending his time running for his life. He wasn't even allowed to try to gain some yards when the OL broke down which was most of the time.

Without an OL Trent would be DEAD too. Why do you think they are trying to go with a 3 step drop? That's so that he can get rid of the ball fast. Something Fairchild didn't have a brain for.

Fairchild's offensive schemes we're too predictable and we had no abilty to change the plays at the line one way or the other.

[justasportsfan]

Fairchild's offensive schemes we're too predictable .WORD!



and we had no abilty to change the plays at the line one way or the other.
Turk seems to disagree.