AFCE Will be a Brawl

[Mahdi]

Many of us seem to think that the Bills already have the #2 spot in the AFCE locked up but I really doubt thats the case. In fact I see the AFCE as being a very competitive division this year at least within itself. Here is why.....




Lets start with the Pats, they lost some serious talent. Sure they lost talent every year and still bounce back strong, however I highly doubt they return to the rampage they had going last year. Losing Stallworth IMO is big, he made teams respect the other side of the field and was a deep threat. That should allow teams to clamp down on Welker more as well as the run game. Losing Rosevelt Colvin is also huge. Unless they replace him with another stud rusher then the teeth of their pass rush is gone. Seau is coming off surgery and Bruschi is another year older. Their safety situation is not great but still ok. James Sanders seemed to be favored over Wilson and played well as the starter and Harrisson is Harrisson. CB is the big question mark. They brought in some decent vets but none that will be Asante Samuel. Overall I think the Pats have downgraded enough to make most games against division opponents a battle.




On to the Jets. The Jets went nuts in the offseason obviously but money doesnt usually buy contenders. However, although they spend way too much on the FAs they brought in, they got some very good quality starters. Pace will give the Jets a good but not great pass rush from the outside and should team up nicely with David Harris, Eric Barton, and Bryan Thomas. Their interior DL impoved big-time with the acquisition of Jenkins who should do well next to Shaun Ellis and Kenyon Coleman. The Jets weakness is their secondary. Revis is talented yes, but still not a shut down guy by any means, they have no one notable at the other CB position. Safety is not bad though with Kerry Rhodes who is a real good playmaker. Their other safety is an unknown named Abram Elam. Overall the Jets are going to be tough to run against and that's after it was already tough for Buffalo to run the ball on them last year. They should also be a very tough, smash mouth rushing team after the acquisitions they made on the OL. It will all depend on Ferguson and Mangold though. I know everyone loves Mangold but IMO he may not be the toughest run blocker and the same goes for Ferguson. Faneca is obviously a beast but he played with other OL in Pitts that were also road-graters so its not a given that he will revamp the Jets run game unless the 2 next to him can do the same. Still even if they remain as they were last year Faneca and Woody instantly upgrade their ability to pound the ball. There it is for the Jets and thats what will make them a tough team to beat, run and stop the run. A last comment on the Jets is that they currently have the second best WR corps in the AFCE so if Clemens can get his act together, that combined with a solid run game wont be easy to defend.




Miami Dolphins. Bill Parcells. That name instantly upgrades this team. He will give them an identity on defense that the team will rally around from day one. He has already brought in some players that fly under the radar but in the right system can flourish. Reggie Torbor and Charlie Anderson are great fits for 3-4 defenses. They are both very big LBs that can run. Torbor will probably start right away and should be a great addition. I think Torbor will start on the inside with Crowder with Porter and Taylor as the OLBs, thats not a bad LB crew at all actually. The DL is not spectacular but not horrible either. Starks is a decent player, Holliday is a good vet and Roth is just solid. Now speaking of horrible, thats what their CBs are. They need some serious help at CB and fast. Safety is ok with Yeremiah Bell and Jasen Allen. If they can improve their pass rush those 2 should actually make a lot of plays next year. Parcells is a smart dude so im pretty sure he will use the #1 pick to address his front 7. Smarter if he can trade down to #5, get extra picks and take Glenn Dorsey. Taking Chris Long IMO is a big mistake for both parties. The O is a huge question mark. I like the signing of Justin Smiley but I dont understand letting go of Rex Hadnot, he was a very solid player and still young. Pretty much evens out the Smiley signing and leaves them with holes on the OL. Vernon Carey is not a LT, he should be playing LG IMO. If they can land an OT in the second round that can start day 1 they can have a decent but not great OL. Running behind that OL is what can make or break the Dols offense next season. A motivated Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown who will want to pick up where he left off can give defenses a load to handle. We will have to see if either are possible with Ricky being Ricky and Brown coming of serious knee surgery. Now the WRs I think can be very tough to handle. Ginn hasn't really had a fair shot as of yet to prove his draft selection as worthy. This year he will have Ernest Wilford and Tab Perry playing with him, both of which are big physical receivers. If Beck can actually improve over last year he will still be below average. Josh McCown however can bring respectability to the QB position in Miami and given a running game and some time to throw, I think the Dolphins offense can actually put up some points. The dark horse for this offense will be Tab Perry IMO. If he can be a solid receiver in 3 WR sets then this offense can actually be tough to play against. It will come down to OL and DL for the Phins, if they can get it together they will be tough to play.




Our Bills. I think this has been one of the most satisfying offseason's ever. The combination of moves they made and moves they didnt make were great. Getting Kawika Mitchell early was perfect and then following it up with the trade for Stroud was brilliant. Stroud gives us Pat Williams and Tommie Harris rolled into 1. Im not saying he is as good at run stuffing as Pat or as good at pass rushing as Tommie but he can do both very very well which is exactly what our DL needed. Not getting Bryant Johnson for a huge contract was equally brilliant. Although I wanted him at first for a modest price I would not have been happy to pay him a big contract. Johnson is unproven as a starter and he's actually not as physical as his size might suggest. Anyways, we definitely got better in the run stopping department and thats before discussing the return of PoZ. Although I dont know how he will fare as a MLB in general I do know that he is very good as a run stuffer. What will make our defense great is how well Poz can play the pass. If he can do the things that Brackett and Urlacher do for their defenses then our D can be top 10 easily. Of course Im assuming that the trust the FO has in Schobel and Kelsay is warranted and they can get to the QB early and often. I have been down on our DEs but if Stroud and our best DT from last year McCargo can push the pocket inside it should make things easier for our DEs and maybe they will produce at the level we all expect. The other key to our success will be our run blocking. Our OL proved that they can pass block extremely well but have shown a weakness when it comes to pounding opponents off the LOS in the run game. If Lynch can get up to 4.5 ypc like the other elite backs in the league our offense, assuming we have a genuine #2 WR and TE can really take off. Overall the Bills have most teams a tough time last year and with the additions in FA, trade and the draft it should be even tougher.


With all that said here is my prediciton for the AFCE:

Pats: 12-4

Bills: 10-6

Jets: 9-7

Dolphins: 6-10

Comments/Predictions welcome!

[HHURRICANE]

1) Had the Pats won the Superbowl I think they could have lost the players this off-season and still would be the dominant team in the AFC. That loss was huge for 3 reasons. One, every team is still going to want to beat them becuase they went undefeated during the regular season. Two, everyone will think they can beat them becuase they lost in Superbowl. Three, if you play them tough like the Giants did in the regular season you may end up as a contender. I think they are going to get a beat down this year.

2) The Jets don't have a QB, next.

3) Miami could have Lombardi, Walsh, Parcells, and Bellichek all on the sidelines and it wouldn't matter in 2008. Parcells is the real deal but you aren't going to be competitive after only being one play from 0-16. This team has so many problems that one season won't fix it.

4) Buffalo, IMO, has the best shot at making a run this year. Jauron is the perfect coach for a young talented team. This team should at worst win 9-10 games this year.

[Mahdi]

1) Had the Pats won the Superbowl I think they could have lost the players this off-season and still would be the dominant team in the AFC. That loss was huge for 3 reasons. One, every team is still going to want to beat them becuase they went undefeated during the regular season. Two, everyone will think they can beat them becuase they lost in Superbowl. Three, if you play them tough like the Giants did in the regular season you may end up as a contender. I think they are going to get a beat down this year.

2) The Jets don't have a QB, next.

3) Miami could have Lombardi, Walsh, Parcells, and Bellichek all on the sidelines and it wouldn't matter in 2008. Parcells is the real deal but you aren't going to be competitive after only being one play from 0-16. This team has so many problems that one season won't fix it.

4) Buffalo, IMO, has the best shot at making a run this year. Jauron is the perfect coach for a young talented team. This team should at worst win 9-10 games this year.
How much better is Trent Edwards than Kellen Clemens really? They both started almost the same amount of games and their stats arent far off.

Trent has a 56% completion, 7TD, 8INT, 70.4 Rating in 9 starts

Kellen has a 52% completion, 5TD, 10INT, 60.9 Rating in 8 starts

The difference is minimal. Peronally Im not going to annoint Trent our QB of the future till I see a full season and proof that he is the man. I hope we give him enough weapons and support to have a shot at achieving that.

[HHURRICANE]

How much better is Trent Edwards than Kellen Clemens really? They both started almost the same amount of games and their stats arent far off.

Trent has a 56% completion, 7TD, 8INT, 70.4 Rating in 9 starts

Kellen has a 52% completion, 5TD, 10INT, 60.9 Rating in 8 starts

The difference is minimal. Peronally Im not going to annoint Trent our QB of the future till I see a full season and proof that he is the man. I hope we give him enough weapons and support to have a shot at achieving that.

This is why I hate stats. I watch alot of football and Kellen flat out blows. Kellen was a 2nd year player.

[Mahdi]

This is why I hate stats. I watch alot of football and Kellen flat out blows. Kellen was a 2nd year player.
Fair enough. I agree that Trent's intangibles seem to be way better. All im saying is that the production and results need to be there before we can declare that we have a QB.

[Mitchy moo]

Bills have alot to prove on both sides of the ball. Turk's new schemes need to be much more advanced than previous years and our D gave up huge runs last year. I personally see the chance to win 11 or more based on schedule and a great draft. 1 more year and NE will be in our grasp and by 2010 we will be a SB contender.

[trapezeus]

i think if the bills can shed this "slow out the gates" start that they have had the last two years, then they can really take 2nd place easily and leave miami and NYJ behind.

However, if they hit another slow start, yet again, then it'll be a dog fight the entire year. We'll findout if Mangini just had a bad year last year or if he really wasn't ready to be an NFL coach. i think its the latter.

The dolphins were so bad last year, it's going to take some time. even with Parcells, i think they all know that this year is a wash, but that they'll get some good draft picks and some good direction.

The pats could be near the end. although i've said that since 2002 and have been wrong every year. but the good thing about just repeating the same thing year after year is that it's bound to be right at some point. Hopefully this is the year.

I just hope that the AFCE isn't like the SouthEast Division in hockey where you literally just get in for a round or two and then exit gracefully.

[feelthepain]

No way in hell the Bills win 10 games.

[Mahdi]

No way in hell the Bills win 10 games.
Its not a stretch by any means,,, we can beat your Phins 2ice and the Jets 2ice, thats 4 right there, we also play Arizona, San Fran, St-Louis, Cleveland, Kansas City, Denver, Oakland and Seattle. You cant say that there's NO WAY that we dont win 10. Its certainly possible.

Now im not saying that all of the above happens but we have a good shot of winning 10 games with that schedule and also considering the improvements we've made.

[baalworship]

Jets look tougher but really it will come down to Edwards and his development for us. If we don't get him more weapons he will not improve much from last year.

[feelthepain]

Its not a stretch by any means,,, we can beat your Phins 2ice and the Jets 2ice, thats 4 right there, we also play Arizona, San Fran, St-Louis, Cleveland, Kansas City, Denver, Oakland and Seattle. You cant say that there's NO WAY that we dont win 10. Its certainly possible.

Now im not saying that all of the above happens but we have a good shot of winning 10 games with that schedule and also considering the improvements we've made.


You only believe that cause you're a Bill fan. It's not something many outside Buffalo believe.

[feelthepain]

Our Bills. I think this has been one of the most satisfying offseason's ever. The combination of moves they made and moves they didnt make were great. Getting Kawika Mitchell early was perfect and then following it up with the trade for Stroud was brilliant. Stroud gives us Pat Williams and Tommie Harris rolled into 1. Im not saying he is as good at run stuffing as Pat or as good at pass rushing as Tommie but he can do both very very well which is exactly what our DL needed. Not getting Bryant Johnson for a huge contract was equally brilliant. Although I wanted him at first for a modest price I would not have been happy to pay him a big contract. Johnson is unproven as a starter and he's actually not as physical as his size might suggest. Anyways, we definitely got better in the run stopping department and thats before discussing the return of PoZ. Although I dont know how he will fare as a MLB in general I do know that he is very good as a run stuffer. What will make our defense great is how well Poz can play the pass. If he can do the things that Brackett and Urlacher do for their defenses then our D can be top 10 easily. Of course Im assuming that the trust the FO has in Schobel and Kelsay is warranted and they can get to the QB early and often. I have been down on our DEs but if Stroud and our best DT from last year McCargo can push the pocket inside it should make things easier for our DEs and maybe they will produce at the level we all expect. The other key to our success will be our run blocking. Our OL proved that they can pass block extremely well but have shown a weakness when it comes to pounding opponents off the LOS in the run game. If Lynch can get up to 4.5 ypc like the other elite backs in the league our offense, assuming we have a genuine #2 WR and TE can really take off. Overall the Bills have most teams a tough time last year and with the additions in FA, trade and the draft it should be even tougher.


With all that said here is my prediciton for the AFCE:

Pats: 12-4

Bills: 10-6

Jets: 9-7

Dolphins: 6-10

Comments/Predictions welcome!


I see you make no real mention of Edwards. You speak of Beck like he has no talent, but you speak of everyones doing their part so Edwards can succeed in 08. Trent did little last year and had some bad games. He did nothing special to give anyone a reason to believe he is a future star. But Bill fans have totally given into the fact that their QB situation is solved. Funny how Bill fans use logic and the "facts" to determine the future.

[Mahdi]

I see you make no real mention of Edwards. You speak of Beck like he has no talent, but you speak of everyones doing their part so Edwards can succeed in 08. Trent did little last year and had some bad games. He did nothing special to give anyone a reason to believe he is a future star. But Bill fans have totally given into the fact that their QB situation is solved. Funny how Bill fans use logic and the "facts" to determine the future.
Well im not one of the Bills fans who is convinced that our QB situation is solved. I think its still a question mark that needs to be answered. Thats why I didnt use Trent as a reason the Bills would be competitve. I will give him this though, he's smart, calm and from how the players talk of him seems to be a solid leader type, he's also pretty accurate with the football. Even you have to admit that Edwards has shown more than Beck has.

[jamze132]

Pats - 13-3
Bills - 9-7
Jets - 8-8
Dolphins 6-10

[justasportsfan]

No way in hell the Bills win 10 games.


yeah like no way in hell the bills will be a better team than the fins. Thats what you said at FH prior to the 2007 season starting .

[casdhf]

sweep

[Mr. Pink]

New England will run away with the division as is the usual trend.

Buffalo and NY will fight it out for second place...

And Miami will bring up the rear.

[feelthepain]

Well im not one of the Bills fans who is convinced that our QB situation is solved. I think its still a question mark that needs to be answered. Thats why I didnt use Trent as a reason the Bills would be competitve. I will give him this though, he's smart, calm and from how the players talk of him seems to be a solid leader type, he's also pretty accurate with the football. Even you have to admit that Edwards has shown more than Beck has.

And you'll have to admit that due to the trade of Chambers and the injury to Brown both big loses for any Dolphin signal caller, especially a rookie not only their talent but experience. Along with all the defensive injuries the Dolphins had they were far from 100%. I'm sure Bill fans want everyone to think their injuries in 07 were loses, but not when you look at the starters Miami lost to injury or trade and the backups the Bills lost to injury. Trent had a healthy starting team, offensively especially to help him. Also look how bad Trents numbers were. Why Bill fans think Edwards is suddenly their starting QB is a head scatcher. It would explain why Bill fans think their team is suddenly a playoff team that will compete for the division even though the Bills had the worst offensive and defensive team in the division, because they don't use logic.

I just love how the Bills can the go from the 31st and 30th rankings in the two most important aspects of the game to a playoff team and compete for the division the very next season. However the Jets and Dolphins who had better overall statistics and better off seasons and better to at least equal talent at the QB positions (Pennington, Beck) their seasons are not very good? Bill fans act like there's this huge difference in 1-15 and 7-9. When in reality there isn't a big difference and the staistics prove that.

If the Bills were an up and coming team they would have made at least a wildcard playoff game last year, but instead they had a worse year in 07 then they did in 06 when you consider all the "great additions" Bill fans claim they made during the 07 off season. I see the same thing this year for the Bills with the division being a tougher road being the exception. See most logical people won't ignore the Big picture, Bill fans however, make a living at it.

[feelthepain]

New England will run away with the division as is the usual trend.

Buffalo and NY will fight it out for second place...

And Miami will bring up the rear.

That's possible, but I think Buffalo or the Jets could also bring up the rear because the three teams are basically the same at this point.

[justasportsfan]

because the three teams are basically the same at this point.:rofl: You wish.

[feelthepain]

:rofl: You wish.


Oh right, you believe differently, so what you believe must be true...:rofl:!

[justasportsfan]

Oh right, you believe differently, so what you believe must be true...:rofl:!
you are rebuilding and the other 2 aren't so how are the other two the same with the fins? Don't use 0-0 because the pats are as well . Don't use the pats are in a different class because so are you. Pats are top , we're middle and you're bottom.

[feelthepain]

you are rebuilding and the other 2 aren't so how are the other two the same with the fins? Don't use 0-0 because the pats are as well . Don't use the pats are in a different class because so are you. Pats are top , we're middle and you're bottom.
How??? Cause the Bills should be rebuildng and they're not? The Bills have "NO more probowlers"...then either the Dolphins or Jets. The Bills only had 7 wins each of the last two seasons. The Bills don't have a superstar QB or even a very good QB. The Bills don't have a SB winning HC or winning HC for that matter, especially if you count his time in Buffalo. The Bills FO relys on castoffs and second tier talent to try to upgrade their roster rather then going after quaility starters. The Bills could have just as eaisly been 1-15 last year AS 7-9 and the Bills had 0 chance of winning a playoff game even if they had lucked into the playoffs cause the Bills simply can't beat good teams. I know you desperately want the Bills to be a good team, but they're not. Their record shows that, their statistics show that, their lack of talent shows that and their playoff drought shows that. But you keep up the faith and ignore reality.

[PECKERWOOD]

Patriots: 12-4
Bills: 9-7
Jets: 8-8
Dolphins: 5-11

I think it could go either way with the Jets and Bills spot.. I could see the Jets going 9-7 and the Bills going 8-8. I will say this, I think that Pennington will be the Jets starter for the majority of the season.

[feelthepain]

Pats 13-3
Jets 9-7
Bills- 6-10
Dolphins 6-10

Jets, Dolphins and Bills records are interchangable.

[Mahdi]

That's possible, but I think Buffalo or the Jets could also bring up the rear because the three teams are basically the same at this point.
Ok thats a little too homeristic... look I think the Phins will be stronger than most people think but we cant sit here and say that the three teams are the same....


Buffalo has a much more established OL and DL than both Miami and the Jets. That factor alone puts the Bills ahead. After that, of all 3 QBs Trent has shown the most poise and promise. As of now the Bills also have the best of the RBs. Yes Brown is considered by many as better than Lynch but he is injured and it typically takes 2 years to get back to full strength. Looking at WRs, the Bills have the best WR of the 3 teams but the Jets have the better WR corps. The Dolphins have a potentially good WR corps but has many question marks. I think we are all weak at TE but the Phins have the advantage IMO. At the end of the day the Bills have less holes than Miami and the Jets. The good news is that the draft is very deep at the positions we are weak in.

[feelthepain]

Buffalo has a much more established OL and DL than both Miami and the Jets.

Then why did Miami and the Jets both finish the season better statistically then the Bills? Something doesn't add up. Bill fans are always claiming their team is better, but the number don't support that opinion.




of all 3 QBs Trent has shown the most poise and promise.

Seriously you can't make this claim because all the QB's are in different situations and Beck has the least amout of playing time. You act like a handful of games in difinitve towards any conclusion. Lets just leave the QB's out of this debate cause none of them look like starters at this point. If Trent was a contender for rookie of the year Id give the QB advantage to the Bills but he wasn't even close to that so lets just stop the QB talk.




As of now the Bills also have the best of the RBs. Yes Brown is considered by many as better than Lynch but he is injured and it typically takes 2 years to get back to full strength.

What the hell, is there some kinda rule when Bill fans sign up here that they must give their team credit for work yet to be performed?? Bill fans constantly want people to give their team and players credit for things they've yet to earn. In two sentences in just this one paragraph you've given the Bills the bets QB and the best RB out of the Bills, Dolphins and Jets. This based on a minimal of games. Seriously can't we just wait and see what happens before we crown anyone? My argument is that the Bills and Dolphins and Jets are all basically the same and Bill fans maintain their team is better then the Jets and Dolphins with little to no facts to support the opinion, just opinion to support opinion.


Looking at WRs, the Bills have the best WR of the 3 teams but the Jets have the better WR corps.

Check that make that three senteces in one paragraph that a Bill fan claims supiriority....it just doesn't end. Your WR, refuse to play for your new QB. I'd say that's a slight problem. Also I wouldn't give the edge to Evans since he's only had one season in his career of 1000 yards or more. Coles is a better WR then Evans. Coles only played in 12 games last year but had more TD's just 200 less yards then then Evans.


The Dolphins have a potentially good WR corps but has many question marks.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you caould make that argument for all three teams.


At the end of the day the Bills have less holes than Miami and the Jets.

I whole heartedly disagree with this opinion and I've already stated why above. Even though Bill fans want to believe their team is magically better, the statistics don't support that opnion. The Bills may have an area they are better, but then they'll have an area that's worse then the other two teams so all in all the three teams have their advantages and disadvantages. There is nothing that one of the three teams has that seperates them from the other two. Becuase of this the Pats are allwoed to keep truckin along owning the division.

[justasportsfan]

A team can statistically be better than their opponent and yet lose the ballgame. Thos stats may affect O and D ranking but the record is all that matters.

Wins and losses are all that matters. 1-15. Suck on it.

[feelthepain]

A team can statistically be better than their opponent and yet lose the ballgame. Thos stats may affect O and D ranking but the record is all that matters.

Wins and losses are all that matters. 1-15. Suck on it.


Wins and loses are all that matters to you cause that's what you base your argument on. I claim the statistics also matter cause they favor the Dolphins, what does this mean? It means that basically the two teams are the same...which has been my argument this entire time. You want the world to believe all that matter is wins. If you're a playoff team wins matter. If you're not a playoff team wins mean nothing. Who cares if you have more wins if they don't get you anywhere??

I'll go back to wins and loses and use your logic that wins are all that matter, If wins were all that mattered then they wouldn't have allowed the Giants to play the Pats this year in the SB cause the Pats won 6 more games this season then the Giants. Also if wins were all that mattered the Giants wouldn't have beaten the Pats becuase "your theory" is that wins makes the team with more WINS better....WRONG, as usual.

You can continue to live in your little fantasy land if you wish, but no one is picking the Bills to be anything. No one thinks the Bills are a playoff team and no one fears the Bills. The Bills can't even think about winning their own division because they would have to beat winning teams to do so. We all know the Bills can't do that. So where are the Bills a good or even avg. team? They're not, no one is picking the Bills to be a playoff team and no one is picking the Dolphins to be a playoff team, would you like to know why? Here let me help you....CAUSE THEY'RE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

The bottom line, it doesn't matter how much you love your team, they suck, so who cares if they suck less in your mind then the Dolphins, they still suck. That's reality. Deal with it.

[justasportsfan]

Wins and loses are all that matters to you cause that's what you base your argument on. I claim the statistics also matter cause they favor the Dolphins, what does this mean? It means that basically the two teams are the same...which has been my argument this entire time. You want the world to believe all that matter is wins. If you're a playoff team wins matter. If you're not a playoff team wins mean nothing. Who cares if you have more wins if they don't get you anywhere??

I'll go back to wins and loses and use your logic that wins are all that matter, If wins were all that mattered then they wouldn't have allowed the Giants to play the Pats this year in the SB cause the Pats won 6 more games this season then the Giants. Also if wins were all that mattered the Giants wouldn't have beaten the Pats becuase "your theory" is that wins makes the team with more WINS better....WRONG, as usual.

You can continue to live in your little fantasy land if you wish, but no one is picking the Bills to be anything. No one thinks the Bills are a playoff team and no one fears the Bills. The Bills can't even think about winning their own division because they would have to beat winning teams to do so. We all know the Bills can't do that. So where are the Bills a good or even avg. team? They're not, no one is picking the Bills to be a playoff team and no one is picking the Dolphins to be a playoff team, would you like to know why? Here let me help you....CAUSE THEY'RE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

The bottom line, it doesn't matter how much you love your team, they suck, so who cares if they suck less in your mind then the Dolphins, they still suck. That's reality. Deal with it.

the superbowl champs did not lead the league statistically on O and D. Does that mean they weren't the leagues best team last year?

The Colts were last place on D in 06, does that mean they weren't the best team in 06?

If you weren't ******ed winning games is more important than stats. You could have better stats than your opponent and still lose the game.

[SABuffalo786]

Wins and loses are all that matters to you cause that's what you base your argument on. I claim the statistics also matter cause they favor the Dolphins, what does this mean? It means that basically the two teams are the same....



Right, that' why we won 7 times as many games as you did last year. We're the same. :rolleyes:


Enjoy your stats, we'll enjoy actually having a shot at the playoffs.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Broom_icon.svg/400px-Broom_icon.svg.png

[feelthepain]

Right, that' why we won 7 times as many games as you did last year. We're the same. :rolleyes:


Enjoy your stats, we'll enjoy actually having a shot at the playoffs.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Broom_icon.svg/400px-Broom_icon.svg.png

Be sure to let us know when that will be.

[feelthepain]

the superbowl champs did not lead the league statistically on O and D. Does that mean they weren't the leagues best team last year?

The Colts were last place on D in 06, does that mean they weren't the best team in 06?

If you weren't ******ed winning games is more important than stats. You could have better stats than your opponent and still lose the game.

And if you weren't so ******ed you'd know that the team with the "most wins" hasn't won the SB since 03', yeah, wins are all that matter. Go ask the Pats and their fans if they'd trade those 16 wins for a SB title over the Giants. I'm sure you'd find that wins are meaningless without the title....but who knows this better then Bill fans?? Gotta love the irony in that!!

[Mahdi]

Then why did Miami and the Jets both finish the season better statistically then the Bills? Something doesn't add up. Bill fans are always claiming their team is better, but the number don't support that opinion.




Seriously you can't make this claim because all the QB's are in different situations and Beck has the least amout of playing time. You act like a handful of games in difinitve towards any conclusion. Lets just leave the QB's out of this debate cause none of them look like starters at this point. If Trent was a contender for rookie of the year Id give the QB advantage to the Bills but he wasn't even close to that so lets just stop the QB talk.




What the hell, is there some kinda rule when Bill fans sign up here that they must give their team credit for work yet to be performed?? Bill fans constantly want people to give their team and players credit for things they've yet to earn. In two sentences in just this one paragraph you've given the Bills the bets QB and the best RB out of the Bills, Dolphins and Jets. This based on a minimal of games. Seriously can't we just wait and see what happens before we crown anyone? My argument is that the Bills and Dolphins and Jets are all basically the same and Bill fans maintain their team is better then the Jets and Dolphins with little to no facts to support the opinion, just opinion to support opinion.



Check that make that three senteces in one paragraph that a Bill fan claims supiriority....it just doesn't end. Your WR, refuse to play for your new QB. I'd say that's a slight problem. Also I wouldn't give the edge to Evans since he's only had one season in his career of 1000 yards or more. Coles is a better WR then Evans. Coles only played in 12 games last year but had more TD's just 200 less yards then then Evans.



I know you don't want to hear this, but you caould make that argument for all three teams.



I whole heartedly disagree with this opinion and I've already stated why above. Even though Bill fans want to believe their team is magically better, the statistics don't support that opnion. The Bills may have an area they are better, but then they'll have an area that's worse then the other two teams so all in all the three teams have their advantages and disadvantages. There is nothing that one of the three teams has that seperates them from the other two. Becuase of this the Pats are allwoed to keep truckin along owning the division.
Ok Ill break this down even further for you,,,,

LT: Peters, Ferguson, Carey--- Adv. Bills
LG: Dockery, Faneca, ???--- Bills=Jets >>> Dolphins
C: Fowler, Mangold, Satele --- Adv. Jets and Dolphins > Bills
RG: Butler, Smiley, Moore --- Butler=Smiley> Jets
RT: Walker, Woody, ??? --- Bills=Jets>>> Dolphins

Summary: The Bills and Jets are pretty much equal on the OL, Dolphins are in shambles and please dont argue that. Vernon Carey should not be a LT, no established LG, there goes the most crucial area of the OL, you have a good signing at RG and no established starter at RT. Miami OL is currently a disaster. Sure it can be fixed through the draft somewhat but as of now... not pretty.

Defensive Line:

Interior: Stroud, McCargo, Johnson, Williams -- Ellis, Jenkins, Coleman -- Starks, Holliday

Jets=Bills > Dolphins

Outside DL: Schobel, Kelsay, Denney -- Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace -- Jason Taylor, Matt Roth

Bills = Phins > Jets


LBs:

Crowell, Poz, Mitchell -- Harris, Barton -- Crowder, ??, Porter

Adv. Bills

Secondary:

CB: McGee, Greer, James -- Revis, Wolfolk??, Barrett -- Lehan, W.Allen, Daniels

Adv. Bills.

Safety: Whitner, Simpson -- Rhodes, Elam -- Allen, Worrell

Bills = Jets > Dolphins


Secondary summary: Dolphins are in seious trouble in the secondary with question marks at ALL 4 starting positions! Bills and Jets can both be better at #2 with the Bills making a move for James that problem COULD be solved. Both Bills and Jets are good at safety with slight questions about Elam and Simpson.


WRs:

Evans, Reed, Parrish -- Coles, Cotchery, Smith -- Wilford, Ginn, Perry

Adv. Jets

WR Summary: Jets have 2 solid options and a 3rd that can make plays they easily get the adv. Bills get the adv over Phins because Bills have an established #1 where as the Phins have Wilford who has not put up the big numbers yet, Perry who has yet to do anything and Ginn who has yet to play up to his potential or even produce decent numbers.

RBs: Lynch, Jackson -- Jones, Washington -- Brown, Williams

Adv. Bills

RB Summary: If Brown wasnt coming off of season ending knee surgery and Williams wasnt an ill-motivated, pot smoking player who also had a season ending injury 2 years in a row then they would got the Adv. However Buffalo has a young talented RB that grinded out 1100 yards (missed 3 games) with a weak passing game and they also have another young back who filled in with 300 yards rushing in Lynch's 3 game absence named Fred Jackson. Both of which are healthy.


QB: Trent Edwards -- Kellen Clemens -- John Beck

Lets just leave it at equal only because they are all unproven-- But the fact remains that the Bills have firmly hitched their wagon to Trent why havent the Jets and Phins done the same for Clemens and Beck? That is a telling factor.


TEs: Royal, Anderson -- Martin, Peelle -- Chris Baker, Sean Ryan

Bills=Jets=Dolphins

Summary: I thought getting Martin from the Pack was a good move but he really didnt do much last year. Baker is ok but nothing special either. Royal split time with Gaines as a receiver and each ended with 25 rec. None of these TEs are game breakers only role players.


Overall Summary: If a Jet fan wants to come here and argue that their team is equal to the Bills then that argument COULD be made. But for a fan of a team with holes all over the OL, DL with aging players who are not effective and one FA acquisition who didnt even start last year, a very weak secondary with little to no talent and injuries to both their RBs makes absolutely no sense watsoever.

Your one star player is Jason Taylor and thats about it. Other than that Many of your starters would be second and 3rd string for Buffalo and NY.

[SABuffalo786]

Be sure to let us know when that will be.


Just before the Phish have a multiple win season.

[justasportsfan]

And if you weren't so ******ed you'd know that the team with the "most wins" hasn't won the SB since 03', yeah, wins are all that matter. Go ask the Pats and their fans if they'd trade those 16 wins for a SB title over the Giants. I'm sure you'd find that wins are meaningless without the title....but who knows this better then Bill fans?? Gotta love the irony in that!!


where did I say that teams with the most wins always wins the sb? I didn't did I? DUH!

If D and O ranking are so important to you check out where the giants were ranked on both sides of the ball.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

All that matters is winning the game on gameday. Your ranking meant nothing when you played the bills head to head. We made you our ***** in recent years and we'll make you our ***** again this year.

[feelthepain]

Ok Ill break this down even further for you,,,,

LT: Peters, Ferguson, Carey--- Adv. Bills
LG: Dockery, Faneca, ???--- Bills=Jets >>> Dolphins
C: Fowler, Mangold, Satele --- Adv. Jets and Dolphins > Bills
RG: Butler, Smiley, Moore --- Butler=Smiley> Jets
RT: Walker, Woody, ??? --- Bills=Jets>>> Dolphins

Summary: The Bills and Jets are pretty much equal on the OL, Dolphins are in shambles and please dont argue that. Vernon Carey should not be a LT, no established LG, there goes the most crucial area of the OL, you have a good signing at RG and no established starter at RT. Miami OL is currently a disaster. Sure it can be fixed through the draft somewhat but as of now... not pretty.

Defensive Line:

Interior: Stroud, McCargo, Johnson, Williams -- Ellis, Jenkins, Coleman -- Starks, Holliday

Jets=Bills > Dolphins

Outside DL: Schobel, Kelsay, Denney -- Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace -- Jason Taylor, Matt Roth

Bills = Phins > Jets


LBs:

Crowell, Poz, Mitchell -- Harris, Barton -- Crowder, ??, Porter

Adv. Bills

Secondary:

CB: McGee, Greer, James -- Revis, Wolfolk??, Barrett -- Lehan, W.Allen, Daniels

Adv. Bills.

Safety: Whitner, Simpson -- Rhodes, Elam -- Allen, Worrell

Bills = Jets > Dolphins


Secondary summary: Dolphins are in seious trouble in the secondary with question marks at ALL 4 starting positions! Bills and Jets can both be better at #2 with the Bills making a move for James that problem COULD be solved. Both Bills and Jets are good at safety with slight questions about Elam and Simpson.


WRs:

Evans, Reed, Parrish -- Coles, Cotchery, Smith -- Wilford, Ginn, Perry

Adv. Jets

WR Summary: Jets have 2 solid options and a 3rd that can make plays they easily get the adv. Bills get the adv over Phins because Bills have an established #1 where as the Phins have Wilford who has not put up the big numbers yet, Perry who has yet to do anything and Ginn who has yet to play up to his potential or even produce decent numbers.

RBs: Lynch, Jackson -- Jones, Washington -- Brown, Williams

Adv. Bills

RB Summary: If Brown wasnt coming off of season ending knee surgery and Williams wasnt an ill-motivated, pot smoking player who also had a season ending injury 2 years in a row then they would got the Adv. However Buffalo has a young talented RB that grinded out 1100 yards (missed 3 games) with a weak passing game and they also have another young back who filled in with 300 yards rushing in Lynch's 3 game absence named Fred Jackson. Both of which are healthy.


QB: Trent Edwards -- Kellen Clemens -- John Beck

Lets just leave it at equal only because they are all unproven-- But the fact remains that the Bills have firmly hitched their wagon to Trent why havent the Jets and Phins done the same for Clemens and Beck? That is a telling factor.


TEs: Royal, Anderson -- Martin, Peelle -- Chris Baker, Sean Ryan

Bills=Jets=Dolphins

Summary: I thought getting Martin from the Pack was a good move but he really didnt do much last year. Baker is ok but nothing special either. Royal split time with Gaines as a receiver and each ended with 25 rec. None of these TEs are game breakers only role players.


Overall Summary: If a Jet fan wants to come here and argue that their team is equal to the Bills then that argument COULD be made. But for a fan of a team with holes all over the OL, DL with aging players who are not effective and one FA acquisition who didnt even start last year, a very weak secondary with little to no talent and injuries to both their RBs makes absolutely no sense watsoever.

Your one star player is Jason Taylor and thats about it. Other than that Many of your starters would be second and 3rd string for Buffalo and NY.
Nice work, but a Bill fans opinion of the talent level between teams is hardly scientific fact. As usual Bill fans give their players more credit then they earn. Lets not forget the Bills Offense and Defense were the worst overall in the division, but when homer Bill fan brakes things down their team is always better. Common now, you know your opinion doesn'ty match the statisics.


QB: Trent Edwards -- Kellen Clemens -- John Beck

Lets just leave it at equal only because they are all unproven-- But the fact remains that the Bills have firmly hitched their wagon to Trent why havent the Jets and Phins done the same for Clemens and Beck? That is a telling factor.
Maybe whats really telling is that you gave up multiple first day picks for a QB that 4 years lateer can't keep a job against a 3rd round DP. That's what I think is telling.

Just a little something else, are you privy to information no one else is? Cause I don't recall anyone in Miami saying Beck is or isn't the starting QB for the Dolphins.


Other than that Many of your starters would be second and 3rd string for Buffalo and NY.

Really, that's exactly how I feel about the Bills starters. Maybe one Bill player would be wotrthy of taking. I would rather go to any other roster in the league for talent then the Bills.

[SABuffalo786]

Nice work, but a Bill fans opinion o the talent level between teams is harly scientific fact. As usual Bill fans give their players more credit then they earn. Lets not forget the Bills Offense and Defense were the worst overall in the division, but when homer Bill fan brakes things down their team is always better. Common now, you know your opinion doesn'ty match the statisics.


I REALLY hope Bill Parcells thinks like you so the Phins can keep winning the statistical games. :dance:

[Mahdi]

Nice work, but a Bill fans opinion of the talent level between teams is hardly scientific fact. As usual Bill fans give their players more credit then they earn. Lets not forget the Bills Offense and Defense were the worst overall in the division, but when homer Bill fan brakes things down their team is always better. Common now, you know your opinion doesn'ty match the statisics.


Maybe whats really telling is that you gave up multiple first day picks for a QB that 4 years lateer can't keep a job against a 3rd round DP. That's what I think is telling.

Just a little something else, are you privy to information no one else is? Cause I don't recall anyone in Miami saying Beck is or isn't the starting QB for the Dolphins.



Really, that's exactly how I feel about the Bills starters. Maybe one Bill player would be wotrthy of taking. I would rather go to any other roster in the league for talent then the Bills.
The funny thing about your comments is that you fail to acknowledge the many many holes on your team in areas where we dont have holes. Sure we have question marks at QB, TE and #2 WR but thats about it. The Dolphins are actually going into the season not knowing who will play in several areas. As I said, Carey out of position, LG?RT?, DL? Traylor? Roth (fit in a 3-4?), Starks in a 3-4?

Ill stop there because the simple fact that we have our OL and DL established and the Dolphins dont makes us better. Period. If you argue that then you dont know football.

Can you pick our OL and DL apart like I just did to the Dolphins?

[feelthepain]

I REALLY hope Bill Parcells thinks like you so the Phins can keep winning the statistical games. :dance:

I don't have to hope Juron continues to suck cause that's a guarantee. What's his coaching record??? Oh that's right, he's 17 games below 500. as a HC.

[justasportsfan]

. What's his coaching record??? .
As a bills HC he's 4-0 against the fish. that's all that matters.

[feelthepain]

The funny thing about your comments is that you fail to acknowledge the many many holes on your team in areas where we dont have holes. Sure we have question marks at QB, TE and #2 WR but thats about it. The Dolphins are actually going into the season not knowing who will play in several areas. As I said, Carey out of position, LG?RT?, DL? Traylor? Roth (fit in a 3-4?), Starks in a 3-4?

Ill stop there because the simple fact that we have our OL and DL established and the Dolphins dont makes us better. Period. If you argue that then you dont know football.

Can you pick our OL and DL apart like I just did to the Dolphins?
Again that's relative. Your opinion of not having holes isn't cosistent with a team ranked nearly last on both sides of the ball for the last two years. Something doesn't add up. Unless.....you consider the 30th raked Offense a success and the 26th ranked offens a failure. Then your opinion would make sense, unfortunatley in the real world the 26th Offense is slightly better the the 30th ranked offense. Now Miami had the 26th ranked offense and the Bills had the 30th ranked offense, but you call the Bills better. You do understand what the statistics mean don't you? For everyone but Bill fans it means the positive output of an Offense garners a "lower number" in the rankings.

See I know you know this, but for some reason you refuse to accept it. Now consider the same thing I expalined to you about the Offense, goes for the Defense. Miami's was better in 07 then the Bills. Better Offense rankings better Defenseive rankings, but the Bills have more talent and the Dolphins have more holes, anyone else but Bill fans would wonder where's your logic. Now also consider this,

Trent Green- Starter 11 games missed
Ronnie Brown- Starter 11 games missed
Chris Chambers- Starter (traded) 11 games missed
Zach Thomas- Starter -11 games missed
Yeremiah Bell- Starter -16 games missed

Channing Crowder- Starter- 5 games missed
Renaldo Hill Starter- Starter- 9 games missed

All missed significant (2/3rd's of the season or more. None of whom played the Bills in either game last year) time in 07, name one single player on your team that missed time in 07 that was nealry as good as just one of those players. You can't. But you also act as if those loses are not an issue and Miami replaced them with equal or better talent .....but still couldn't win but one game.Oh and when all was said and done, Miami played the toughest schedule in the conference. Bill fans are amazing, "oh, we won more games, we're better" Sure your team is better, when our starters don't play.

[justasportsfan]

1-15 .SWEEP !!!

[feelthepain]

As a bills HC he's 4-0 against the fish. that's all that matters.

I would expect that to be all the expectations a losing franchise and their fans would believe.

[feelthepain]

1-15 .SWEEP !!!

No SB championships EVER!!!!!!!!! SB SWEEP, Only team every to suck in four SB's in a row. Gosh I wonder which I'd rather be remembered for.

[SABuffalo786]

No SB championships EVER!!!!!!!!! SB SWEEP, Only team every to suck in four SB's in a row. Gosh I wonder which I'd rather be remembered for.


That's fine. You scum haven't been relavent since the 70s. Just a bunch of pathetic old has-beens like Mercury Morris.


It's really too bad Danny Marino couldn't beat those four time losers. I wonder what that makes him? :oops:

[justasportsfan]

I would expect that to be all the expectations a losing franchise and their fans would believe.
na, just when talking to you :snicker:

[FlyingDutchman]

I would expect that to be all the expectations a losing franchise and their fans would believe.

Says the fan of a team with the number 1 overall pick. Lemme guess, youre still hanging your hat up on the 79 team. Whats happend in the last 30 years?

[feelthepain]

That's fine. You scum haven't been relavent since the 70s.


It's really too bad Danny Marino couldn't beat those four time losers. What does that make him? :oops:

Oh please don't make me pull the records of the Dolphins and Bills the last 30 years, cause your team pretty nuch sucked for 2-3rds of the time, Miami on the other hand was a very successful team over the last 30 years. If I'm not mistaken we have the winningest record in the last 30 years or we're 2nd.

[justasportsfan]

Oh please don't make me pull the records of the Dolphins and Bills the last 30 years, cause your team pretty nuch sucked for 2-3rds of the time, Miami on the other hand was a very successful team over the last 30 years. If I'm not mistaken we have the winningest record in the last 30 years or we're 2nd.


Figures, your team CURRENTLY blows and you bring up 30 years.

SWEEP!!!

[Mahdi]

Again that's relative. Your opinion of not having holes isn't cosistent with a team ranked nearly last on both sides of the ball for the last two years. Something doesn't add up. Unless.....you consider the 30th raked Offense a success and the 26th ranked offens a failure. Then your opinion would make sense, unfortunatley in the real world the 26th Offense is slightly better the the 30th ranked offense. Now Miami had the 26th ranked offense and the Bills had the 30th ranked offense, but you call the Bills better. You do understand what the statistics mean don't you? For everyone but Bill fans it means the positive output of an Offense garners a "lower number" in the rankings.

See I know you know this, but for some reason you refuse to accept it. Now consider the same thing I expalined to you about the Offense, goes for the Defense. Miami's was better in 07 then the Bills. Better Offense rankings better Defenseive rankings, but the Bills have more talent and the Dolphins have more holes, anyone else but Bill fans would wonder where's your logic. Now also consider this,

Trent Green- Starter 11 games missed
Ronnie Brown- Starter 11 games missed
Chris Chambers- Starter (traded) 11 games missed
Zach Thomas- Starter -11 games missed
Yeremiah Bell- Starter -16 games missed

Channing Crowder- Starter- 5 games missed
Renaldo Hill Starter- Starter- 9 games missed

All missed significant (2/3rd's of the season or more. None of whom played the Bills in either game last year) time in 07, name one single player on your team that missed time in 07 that was nealry as good as just one of those players. You can't. But you also act as if those loses are not an issue and Miami replaced them with equal or better talent .....but still couldn't win but one game.Oh and when all was said and done, Miami played the toughest schedule in the conference. Bill fans are amazing, "oh, we won more games, we're better" Sure your team is better, when our starters don't play.
Stats in this situation mean nothing. The Bills were 30th and the Phins were 26th both very bad offenses.

Let me ask you this... do you believe that the Phins have a better OL and DL than the Bills do right now? Consider what I have already told you... The Bills are returning 5 entrenched starters to the OL and have added a pro-bowler to our interior DL which was our weakness, as well as another strong up and coming DT. While, like I said, the Phins have yet to address LT and RT and have only 1 solid DE to speak of and no DT talent. Starks is a project for Miami in a 3-4 and didnt even start in Tennessee. So again which OL and DL would you rather have?

[feelthepain]

Stats in this situation mean nothing. The Bills were 30th and the Phins were 26th both very bad offenses.

Let me ask you this... do you believe that the Phins have a better OL and DL than the Bills do right now? Consider what I have already told you... The Bills are returning 5 entrenched starters to the OL and have added a pro-bowler to our interior DL which was our weakness, as well as another strong up and coming DT. While, like I said, the Phins have yet to address LT and RT and have only 1 solid DE to speak of and no DT talent. Starks is a project for Miami in a 3-4 and didnt even start in Tennessee. So again which OL and DL would you rather have?

I don't know how many times we need to go over this, the Bills were ranked no higher then 30th on offense each of the last two seasons. The Bills then go out and spend a boat load of money on Olinemen in 07 that was supposed to upgrade the Oline. they then play an entire season and don't improve even one spot on offense. You say the Bills Oline has 5 entrenched starters, but they couldn't out perform a makeshift Dolphns Oline the last two years over 32 games. The Bills haven't had a winning season or playoff berth in years. The Bills have played the last 32 games and of those 32 games have 1 win against a winning teams.

All of the above is fact, not opinion. Every stat I just wrote is in the history books not an opinion of what might be. You then come back and try to convince me that your team that in the last two years is 4 games below 500. is the second best team in the divison. All you do is write bias opinions backed up with 0 facts. I'll just continue to post the facts and you can continue to post opinion.

[Mahdi]

I don't know how many times we need to go over this, the Bills were ranked no higher then 30th on offense each of the last two seasons. The Bills then go out and spend a boat load of money on Olinemen in 07 that was supposed to upgrade the Oline. they then play an entire season and don't improve even one spot on offense. You say the Bills Oline has 5 entrenched starters, but they couldn't out perform a makeshift Dolphns Oline the last two years over 32 games. The Bills haven't had a winning season or playoff berth in years. The Bills have played the last 32 games and of those 32 games have 1 win against a winning teams.

All of the above is fact, not opinion. Every stat I just wrote is in the history books not an opinion of what might be. You then come back and try to convince me that your team that in the last two years is 4 games below 500. is the second best team in the divison. All you do is write bias opinions backed up with 0 facts. I'll just continue to post the facts and you can continue to post opinion.
K forget it ...you clearly have no football knowledge. Just because our offense was ranked 30th doesnt mean our OL didnt perform. In fact they were excellent in pass protection and although not amazing in run blocking they did enough to allow Lynch to have a good year despite a lousy passing game. Our offense struggled because we had a young QB and only 1 receiving option, not because our OL was bad. BTW Jason Peters was a pro-bowler so obviously many out there believe that we do have talent on the OL. O and Aaron Schobel also went to the Pro-Bowl 2 years in a row.

And the only fact you have is rankings... rankings mean nothing,,, they are only an indication of mass production of an entire unit. Our unit failed because our skill players were lacking.

Ill im comparing is OL for OL and DL for DL. Nothing else. How many NFL fans, critics, coaches would take the Phins OL or DL over ours? Not many, probably none.

[feelthepain]

K forget it ...you clearly have no football knowledge.J
Football knowledge...is that what you think you have? You use opinion, I use fact and I have no football knowledge, must be more of that "Bill fan logic". You know what the problem is, you "want" your team to be better then it is and you've somehow convinced yourself they are better. Sorry the facts don't seem to mesh with your "opinion" but that's not my problem.

You somehow want everyone to forget about what it is the Bills have actually done and the numbers they've produced so you can play this imgainary game of "our team is better then their stats prove". Sorry, that's a real dumb game that only you want to play.

Bottom line....there is a very good reason the Bills have a losing record over the last 32 games, have no playoff berth in nealry a decade and are statsically the worst ranked team in the division, my guess would be talent level, but that would only be the common sense guess. I'm sure your "opinion" and "football knowledge" paint a diffenerent conclusion.

[Mahdi]

Football knowledge...is that what you think you have? You use opinion, I use fact and I have no football knowledge, must be more of that "Bill fan logic". You know what the problem is, you "want" your team to be better then it is and you've somehow convinced yourself they are better. Sorry the facts don't seem to mesh with your "opinion" but that's not my problem.

You somehow want everyone to forget about what it is the Bills have actually done and the numbers they've produced so you can play this imgainary game of "our team is better then their stats prove". Sorry, that's a real dumb game that only you want to play.

Bottom line....there is a very good reason the Bills have a losing record over the last 32 games, have no playoff berth in nealry a decade and are statsically the worst ranked team in the division, my guess would be talent level, but that would only be the common sense guess. I'm sure your "opinion" and "football knowledge" paint a diffenerent conclusion.
Thats right, keep avoiding the question...... At least im not in denial. I know that the Bills have a ways to go but I also know that they are way ahead of Miami. Theres a reason the Bills have swept Miami 2 years in a row and theres also a reason that the Pats have swept the Bills 4 years in a row. The Bills have had losing records several years in a row, they havent been to the playoffs in 9 years I obviously realize that. Im talking about the here and now not historically. Who cares what Buffalo did when the team had 22 different starters. All im asking you is do you or do you not believe that Buffalo is ahead of Miami with their OL and DL????....THATS ALL!

[justasportsfan]

Mahdi, did you notice that not a single finfan came to his aid?

[feelthepain]

Thats right, keep avoiding the question...... At least im not in denial. I know that the Bills have a ways to go but I also know that they are way ahead of Miami. Theres a reason the Bills have swept Miami 2 years in a row and theres also a reason that the Pats have swept the Bills 4 years in a row. The Bills have had losing records several years in a row, they havent been to the playoffs in 9 years I obviously realize that. Im talking about the here and now not historically. Who cares what Buffalo did when the team had 22 different starters. All im asking you is do you or do you not believe that Buffalo is ahead of Miami with their OL and DL????....THATS ALL!


THE STATISTICS DON'T SUPPORT YOUR OPINION!!!!

[feelthepain]

Mahdi, did you notice that not a single finfan came to his aid?

On a Bills site??? What are the odds?? Frikin genius!

[Mahdi]

On a Bills site??? What are the odds?? Frikin genius!
Thats because its a waste of time.... its not even worth arguing....

[SABuffalo786]

THE STATISTICS DON'T SUPPORT YOUR OPINION!!!!



AFC - 2007 Regular Season
Team Div W L T Pct PF PA Net Pts TD Home Road Div Pct Conf Pct Non-Conf Streak Last 5
1 *- New England Patriots ACE 16 0 0 1.000 589 274 315 75 8-0 8-0 6-0 1.000 12-0 1.000 4-0 16W 5-0
2 z- Indianapolis Colts ACS 13 3 0 .813 450 262 188 54 6-2 7-1 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 4-0 1L 4-1
3 z- San Diego Chargers ACW 11 5 0 .688 412 284 128 49 7-1 4-4 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 2-2 6W 5-0
4 z- Pittsburgh Steelers ACN 10 6 0 .625 393 269 124 46 7-1 3-5 5-1 .833 7-5 .583 3-1 1L 2-3
5 y- Jacksonville Jaguars ACS 11 5 0 .688 411 304 107 50 6-2 5-3 2-4 .333 8-4 .667 3-1 1L 3-2
6 y- Tennessee Titans ACS 10 6 0 .625 301 297 4 28 5-3 5-3 4-2 .667 7-5 .583 3-1 3W 4-1
7 Cleveland Browns ACN 10 6 0 .625 402 382 20 46 7-1 3-5 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 3-1 1W 3-2
8 Houston Texans ACS 8 8 0 .500 379 384 -5 43 6-2 2-6 1-5 .167 5-7 .417 3-1 1W 3-2
9 Denver Broncos ACW 7 9 0 .438 320 409 -89 34 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 1W 2-3
10 Cincinnati Bengals ACN 7 9 0 .438 380 385 -5 41 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 2W 3-2
11 Buffalo Bills ACE 7 9 0 .438 252 354 -102 25 4-4 3-5 4-2 .667 6-6 .500 1-3 3L 2-3
12 Baltimore Ravens ACN 5 11 0 .313 275 384 -109 28 4-4 1-7 1-5 .167 2-10 .167 3-1 1W 1-4
13 New York Jets ACE 4 12 0 .250 268 355 -87 26 3-5 1-7 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 1W 2-3
14 Kansas City Chiefs ACW 4 12 0 .250 226 335 -109 24 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 3-9 .250 1-3 9L 0-5
15 Oakland Raiders ACW 4 12 0 .250 283 398 -115 30 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 4L 1-4
16 Miami Dolphins ACE 1 15 0 .063 267 437 -170 29 1-7 0-8 0-6 .000 1-11 .083 0-4 2L 1-4


NFL - 2007 Regular Season
Team Conf Div W L T Pct PF PA Net Pts TD Home Road Div Pct Conf Pct Non-Conf Streak Last 5
*- New England Patriots AFC ACE 16 0 0 1.000 589 274 315 75 8-0 8-0 6-0 1.000 12-0 1.000 4-0 16W 5-0
*- Dallas Cowboys NFC NCE 13 3 0 .813 455 325 130 54 6-2 7-1 4-2 .667 10-2 .833 3-1 1L 3-2
z- Green Bay Packers NFC NCN 13 3 0 .813 435 291 144 49 7-1 6-2 4-2 .667 9-3 .750 4-0 1W 3-2
z- Indianapolis Colts AFC ACS 13 3 0 .813 450 262 188 54 6-2 7-1 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 4-0 1L 4-1
y- Jacksonville Jaguars AFC ACS 11 5 0 .688 411 304 107 50 6-2 5-3 2-4 .333 8-4 .667 3-1 1L 3-2
z- San Diego Chargers AFC ACW 11 5 0 .688 412 284 128 49 7-1 4-4 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 2-2 6W 5-0
Cleveland Browns AFC ACN 10 6 0 .625 402 382 20 46 7-1 3-5 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 3-1 1W 3-2
y- New York Giants NFC NCE 10 6 0 .625 373 351 22 44 3-5 7-1 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 3-1 1L 3-2
z- Pittsburgh Steelers AFC ACN 10 6 0 .625 393 269 124 46 7-1 3-5 5-1 .833 7-5 .583 3-1 1L 2-3
z- Seattle Seahawks NFC NCW 10 6 0 .625 393 291 102 44 7-1 3-5 5-1 .833 8-4 .667 2-2 1L 3-2
y- Tennessee Titans AFC ACS 10 6 0 .625 301 297 4 28 5-3 5-3 4-2 .667 7-5 .583 3-1 3W 4-1
z- Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFC NCS 9 7 0 .563 334 270 64 36 6-2 3-5 5-1 .833 8-4 .667 1-3 2L 2-3
y- Washington Redskins NFC NCE 9 7 0 .563 334 310 24 35 5-3 4-4 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 2-2 4W 4-1
Arizona Cardinals NFC NCW 8 8 0 .500 404 399 5 49 6-2 2-6 3-3 .500 5-7 .417 3-1 2W 3-2
Houston Texans AFC ACS 8 8 0 .500 379 384 -5 43 6-2 2-6 1-5 .167 5-7 .417 3-1 1W 3-2
Minnesota Vikings NFC NCN 8 8 0 .500 365 311 54 43 5-3 3-5 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 2-2 2L 3-2
Philadelphia Eagles NFC NCE 8 8 0 .500 336 300 36 38 3-5 5-3 2-4 .333 5-7 .417 3-1 3W 3-2
Buffalo Bills AFC ACE 7 9 0 .438 252 354 -102 25 4-4 3-5 4-2 .667 6-6 .500 1-3 3L 2-3
Carolina Panthers NFC NCS 7 9 0 .438 267 347 -80 28 2-6 5-3 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 0-4 1W 3-2
Chicago Bears NFC NCN 7 9 0 .438 334 348 -14 34 4-4 3-5 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 3-1 2W 2-3
Cincinnati Bengals AFC ACN 7 9 0 .438 380 385 -5 41 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 2W 3-2
Denver Broncos AFC ACW 7 9 0 .438 320 409 -89 34 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 1W 2-3
Detroit Lions NFC NCN 7 9 0 .438 346 444 -98 37 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 4-8 .333 3-1 1L 1-4
New Orleans Saints NFC NCS 7 9 0 .438 379 388 -9 47 3-5 4-4 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 2L 2-3
Baltimore Ravens AFC ACN 5 11 0 .313 275 384 -109 28 4-4 1-7 1-5 .167 2-10 .167 3-1 1W 1-4
San Francisco 49ers NFC NCW 5 11 0 .313 219 364 -145 24 3-5 2-6 3-3 .500 4-8 .333 1-3 1L 2-3
Atlanta Falcons NFC NCS 4 12 0 .250 259 414 -155 26 3-5 1-7 1-5 .167 3-9 .250 1-3 1W 1-4
Kansas City Chiefs AFC ACW 4 12 0 .250 226 335 -109 24 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 3-9 .250 1-3 9L 0-5
New York Jets AFC ACE 4 12 0 .250 268 355 -87 26 3-5 1-7 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 1W 2-3
Oakland Raiders AFC ACW 4 12 0 .250 283 398 -115 30 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 4L 1-4
St. Louis Rams NFC NCW 3 13 0 .188 263 438 -175 27 1-7 2-6 1-5 .167 3-9 .250 0-4 4L 1-4
Miami Dolphins AFC ACE 1 15 0 .063 267 437 -170 29 1-7 0-8 0-6 .000 1-11 .083 0-4 2L 1-4


Let's see, we were tied for 8th last year in the AFC, 7th in the league and you were dead ****ing last in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY. How about those statistics math wiz?

Please don't try to drag us down with you into the Phin Phag's record breaking level of suck. That spot in hell is reserved just for you pointdexter.

[feelthepain]

AFC - 2007 Regular Season
Team Div W L T Pct PF PA Net Pts TD Home Road Div Pct Conf Pct Non-Conf Streak Last 5
1 *- New England Patriots ACE 16 0 0 1.000 589 274 315 75 8-0 8-0 6-0 1.000 12-0 1.000 4-0 16W 5-0
2 z- Indianapolis Colts ACS 13 3 0 .813 450 262 188 54 6-2 7-1 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 4-0 1L 4-1
3 z- San Diego Chargers ACW 11 5 0 .688 412 284 128 49 7-1 4-4 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 2-2 6W 5-0
4 z- Pittsburgh Steelers ACN 10 6 0 .625 393 269 124 46 7-1 3-5 5-1 .833 7-5 .583 3-1 1L 2-3
5 y- Jacksonville Jaguars ACS 11 5 0 .688 411 304 107 50 6-2 5-3 2-4 .333 8-4 .667 3-1 1L 3-2
6 y- Tennessee Titans ACS 10 6 0 .625 301 297 4 28 5-3 5-3 4-2 .667 7-5 .583 3-1 3W 4-1
7 Cleveland Browns ACN 10 6 0 .625 402 382 20 46 7-1 3-5 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 3-1 1W 3-2
8 Houston Texans ACS 8 8 0 .500 379 384 -5 43 6-2 2-6 1-5 .167 5-7 .417 3-1 1W 3-2
9 Denver Broncos ACW 7 9 0 .438 320 409 -89 34 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 1W 2-3
10 Cincinnati Bengals ACN 7 9 0 .438 380 385 -5 41 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 2W 3-2
11 Buffalo Bills ACE 7 9 0 .438 252 354 -102 25 4-4 3-5 4-2 .667 6-6 .500 1-3 3L 2-3
12 Baltimore Ravens ACN 5 11 0 .313 275 384 -109 28 4-4 1-7 1-5 .167 2-10 .167 3-1 1W 1-4
13 New York Jets ACE 4 12 0 .250 268 355 -87 26 3-5 1-7 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 1W 2-3
14 Kansas City Chiefs ACW 4 12 0 .250 226 335 -109 24 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 3-9 .250 1-3 9L 0-5
15 Oakland Raiders ACW 4 12 0 .250 283 398 -115 30 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 4L 1-4
16 Miami Dolphins ACE 1 15 0 .063 267 437 -170 29 1-7 0-8 0-6 .000 1-11 .083 0-4 2L 1-4


NFL - 2007 Regular Season
Team Conf Div W L T Pct PF PA Net Pts TD Home Road Div Pct Conf Pct Non-Conf Streak Last 5
*- New England Patriots AFC ACE 16 0 0 1.000 589 274 315 75 8-0 8-0 6-0 1.000 12-0 1.000 4-0 16W 5-0
*- Dallas Cowboys NFC NCE 13 3 0 .813 455 325 130 54 6-2 7-1 4-2 .667 10-2 .833 3-1 1L 3-2
z- Green Bay Packers NFC NCN 13 3 0 .813 435 291 144 49 7-1 6-2 4-2 .667 9-3 .750 4-0 1W 3-2
z- Indianapolis Colts AFC ACS 13 3 0 .813 450 262 188 54 6-2 7-1 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 4-0 1L 4-1
y- Jacksonville Jaguars AFC ACS 11 5 0 .688 411 304 107 50 6-2 5-3 2-4 .333 8-4 .667 3-1 1L 3-2
z- San Diego Chargers AFC ACW 11 5 0 .688 412 284 128 49 7-1 4-4 5-1 .833 9-3 .750 2-2 6W 5-0
Cleveland Browns AFC ACN 10 6 0 .625 402 382 20 46 7-1 3-5 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 3-1 1W 3-2
y- New York Giants NFC NCE 10 6 0 .625 373 351 22 44 3-5 7-1 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 3-1 1L 3-2
z- Pittsburgh Steelers AFC ACN 10 6 0 .625 393 269 124 46 7-1 3-5 5-1 .833 7-5 .583 3-1 1L 2-3
z- Seattle Seahawks NFC NCW 10 6 0 .625 393 291 102 44 7-1 3-5 5-1 .833 8-4 .667 2-2 1L 3-2
y- Tennessee Titans AFC ACS 10 6 0 .625 301 297 4 28 5-3 5-3 4-2 .667 7-5 .583 3-1 3W 4-1
z- Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFC NCS 9 7 0 .563 334 270 64 36 6-2 3-5 5-1 .833 8-4 .667 1-3 2L 2-3
y- Washington Redskins NFC NCE 9 7 0 .563 334 310 24 35 5-3 4-4 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 2-2 4W 4-1
Arizona Cardinals NFC NCW 8 8 0 .500 404 399 5 49 6-2 2-6 3-3 .500 5-7 .417 3-1 2W 3-2
Houston Texans AFC ACS 8 8 0 .500 379 384 -5 43 6-2 2-6 1-5 .167 5-7 .417 3-1 1W 3-2
Minnesota Vikings NFC NCN 8 8 0 .500 365 311 54 43 5-3 3-5 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 2-2 2L 3-2
Philadelphia Eagles NFC NCE 8 8 0 .500 336 300 36 38 3-5 5-3 2-4 .333 5-7 .417 3-1 3W 3-2
Buffalo Bills AFC ACE 7 9 0 .438 252 354 -102 25 4-4 3-5 4-2 .667 6-6 .500 1-3 3L 2-3
Carolina Panthers NFC NCS 7 9 0 .438 267 347 -80 28 2-6 5-3 3-3 .500 7-5 .583 0-4 1W 3-2
Chicago Bears NFC NCN 7 9 0 .438 334 348 -14 34 4-4 3-5 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 3-1 2W 2-3
Cincinnati Bengals AFC ACN 7 9 0 .438 380 385 -5 41 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 2W 3-2
Denver Broncos AFC ACW 7 9 0 .438 320 409 -89 34 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 1W 2-3
Detroit Lions NFC NCN 7 9 0 .438 346 444 -98 37 5-3 2-6 3-3 .500 4-8 .333 3-1 1L 1-4
New Orleans Saints NFC NCS 7 9 0 .438 379 388 -9 47 3-5 4-4 3-3 .500 6-6 .500 1-3 2L 2-3
Baltimore Ravens AFC ACN 5 11 0 .313 275 384 -109 28 4-4 1-7 1-5 .167 2-10 .167 3-1 1W 1-4
San Francisco 49ers NFC NCW 5 11 0 .313 219 364 -145 24 3-5 2-6 3-3 .500 4-8 .333 1-3 1L 2-3
Atlanta Falcons NFC NCS 4 12 0 .250 259 414 -155 26 3-5 1-7 1-5 .167 3-9 .250 1-3 1W 1-4
Kansas City Chiefs AFC ACW 4 12 0 .250 226 335 -109 24 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 3-9 .250 1-3 9L 0-5
New York Jets AFC ACE 4 12 0 .250 268 355 -87 26 3-5 1-7 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 1W 2-3
Oakland Raiders AFC ACW 4 12 0 .250 283 398 -115 30 2-6 2-6 2-4 .333 4-8 .333 0-4 4L 1-4
St. Louis Rams NFC NCW 3 13 0 .188 263 438 -175 27 1-7 2-6 1-5 .167 3-9 .250 0-4 4L 1-4
Miami Dolphins AFC ACE 1 15 0 .063 267 437 -170 29 1-7 0-8 0-6 .000 1-11 .083 0-4 2L 1-4


Let's see, we were tied for 8th last year in the AFC, 7th in the league and you were dead ****ing last in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY. How about those statistics math wiz?

Please don't try to drag us down with you into the Phin Phag's record breaking level of suck. That spot in hell is reserved just for you pointdexter.

Oh look a little girl found ONE stat that favors the Bills.....funny how statistics matter when they favor the Boils.

[justasportsfan]

Oh look a little girl found ONE stat that favors the Bills.....funny how statistics matter when they favor the Boils.
look who's talking? The very same tard who always brought up the record when the fins were beating the bills. Now that the tables are turned all of a sudden the record doesn't matter but the ranking does.

The fins are drafting first and it's not because of a trade. It's because they suck and are the worst team in the NFL until they PROVE otherwise.

[yordad]

Pats 13-3
Bills 10-6
Jests 6-10
Fish 4-12

[feelthepain]

look who's talking? The very same tard who always brought up the record when the fins were beating the bills. Now that the tables are turned all of a sudden the record doesn't matter but the ranking does.

The fins are drafting first and it's not because of a trade. It's because they suck and are the worst team in the NFL until they PROVE otherwise.

Big difference, the Dolphins had a winning record and better statistics, Miami would be above 500. and a playoff team. The Bills are two games below 500. have worse stats then a 1-15 team yet are miles ahead of them. The last two Bills seasons were exactly the same, one no better then the other.....yep I see no difference at all, that is if I were in denial, like you.

[yordad]

Big difference, the Dolphins had a winning record and better statistics, Miami would be above 500. and a playoff team. The Bills are two games below 500. have worse stats then a 1-15 team yet are miles ahead of them. The last two Bills seasons were exactly the same, one no better then the other.....yep I see no difference at all, that is if I were in denial, like you.LOL, oh my. That is hilarious. Denial? LOl. Ironic.

[SABuffalo786]

Oh look a little girl found ONE stat that favors the Bills.....funny how statistics matter when they favor the Boils.


And what do you know, IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS. :oops:

Back to your homework, you ****ing mug.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/11/19/23481911.jpg

[justasportsfan]

Big difference, the Dolphins had a winning record and better statistics, Miami would be above 500. and a playoff team. The Bills are two games below 500. have worse stats then a 1-15 team yet are miles ahead of them. The last two Bills seasons were exactly the same, one no better then the other.....yep I see no difference at all, that is if I were in denial, like you.

inspite of the rankings , the fins are our current *****. The AFCE's *****. Wait, 1-15the NFLs *****.

[BleedinGreenNC]

That's possible, but I think Buffalo or the Jets could also bring up the rear because the three teams are basically the same at this point.

The 3 teams are the same?? You must be crazy, Buffalo swept us, and we swept you. Coming off a 1-15 season, your the easy pick to finish last.

[justasportsfan]

The 3 teams are the same?? You must be crazy, Buffalo swept us, and we swept you. Coming off a 1-15 season, your the easy pick to finish last.

add to the fact that they're rebuilding. You know who we're dealing with BGreen, the only finfan who shares his own opinion with himself. No other finfan agrees with his opinion most of the time.

[Oaf]

i think if the bills can shed this "slow out the gates" start that they have had the last two years, then they can really take 2nd place easily and leave miami and NYJ behind.



Remember when we were 0-3 last year and 2nd place in the AFCE? :chuckle: