Please try to look at our #11 pick a different way!!

[HHURRICANE]

I have been very outspoken about not taking a WR at #11. We need not one, but two WRs, so I know how important it is to this team. If there was a clear cut front runner, like Calvin Johnson last year, than I would say absolutely take him at #11.

Here are my main reasons:

1) It will take 8 games before any rookie WR will have an impact. It's the nature of the position. By that time we could be 3-5 and already out of playoff contention. I don't have to tell anybody how our bad starts, year after year, have cost us any chance at a run.

2) There other players in the draft that could have an impact in week 1 that are worthy of a #11 pick. They may help us win games while our 2nd round WR develops.

3) There is no doubt that one of the top 3 WRs that every one keeps talking about will be available in the second round. The Bills have moved up with their 2nd pick 2 years in a row so why not this year, if necessary?

You folks can't even agree on which WR we take. Sweed, Thomas, Kelly? Some analysts have Doucet and Jackson ranked higher. We are narrowing the position because we want "big".

There are positions on this board where at #11 there is no debate.

After Peterson came off the board there was no debate that Lynch was the next best RB on the board. Period. You can't say this at WR.

[PECKERWOOD]

Devin Thomas is the clear cut WR of this year's draft but still isn't worth the #11th pick, imo. I'm hoping that we get a guy like Harvey, DRC or Rivers.

[justasportsfan]

huh? You wanted a DE and then you're telling us a wr won't make an impact til' midseason?

Evans and Reed made impacts way before mid season in their rookie year. Whatchataulkinbout? Colston? The list goes on and on. I can list more wr's than DE's that have made impacts in their rookie year.

[HHURRICANE]

huh? You wanted a DE and then you're telling us a wr won't make an impact til' midseason?

Evans and Reed made impacts way before mid season in their rookie year. Whatchataulkinbout? Colston? The list goes on and on. I can list more wr's than DE's that have made impacts in their rookie year.

Reed was taken in the 4th round.

[justasportsfan]

Reed was taken in the 4th round.

Not Josh Reed.

Thats not the point either. The point is, it doesn't take half a season for a wr to make an impact.

[PECKERWOOD]

Reed was taken in the 4th round.

He was talking about Josh Reed the 2nd round pick.

[HHURRICANE]

Not Josh Reed.

Thats not the point either. The point is, it doesn't take half a season for a wr to make an impact.

Yes it does. I didn't know Josh Reed was so good. He was a 2nd rounder so why are we looking for a guy to go along side Evans?

[bigbub2352]

The problem i have with taking another position at 11 other than WR is that the top CB prospects in the draft are all small school, never covered anyone that was a top ranked WR,
DE we have so much money tied up to this position that i dont see us taking a player at 11 to be the 4th man in the rotation and paying him starter money, the position needs to be addressed but not at 11

WR is the clear cut option to get the best player at his position in the draft, if the Bills didnt think so why did they bring in Bryant Johnson and try and sign him, why did they go to Kelly's pro day and have him and Devin THomas in for a visit if they didnt think that is there biggest need in the draft!

Why did we sign Will James with 44 career starts under his belt, we are also returning both starters, and have to ex 3rd rounders as depth, not nobodys in youboty and fox,i think CB in the 3rd round would be the right time to take one

WR Devin Thomas is the real deal and another thing alot of people are overlooking is the fact that he returns kicks, he is a former RB, so he is amazing after the catch and he had 79 catches last yr, Sweed and Kelly arent even close to that production, plus the fact he is 6ft 2 and 218lbs and runs a 4.4 those are andre johnson intangibles, and rookie WRs can make impacts all season look at Bowe, Colston etc...

We need O first not D

[bigbub2352]

Yes it does. I didn't know Josh Reed was so good. He was a 2nd rounder so why are we looking for a guy to go along side Evans?

Josh Reed the bust is another very glaring reason why we need to take another WR, he is awful and has got by 6yrs in the league cause of his blocking, He is a bum and a cap eater and should have been replaced when he was a FA, but that was another great FA move by Levy, the man could draft but signing players was not something he was very good at

[justasportsfan]

Yes it does. I didn't know Josh Reed was so good. He was a 2nd rounder so why are we looking for a guy to go along side Evans?

I never said Josh was anything great but he had one hell of a rookie season. Thats the point. Wr's make more impacts than DE's in their rookie year. Not all but most of the time.

[Night Train]

I'll be happy with whoever we draft. The step up from college to pro is huge.

Until they put on pads, it's all based on faith. All the smack talk in the world about this player being a " beast " or a sure thing is just that. Cheap talk.

We all have eyes and can read draft site ratings. I'll root for the Bills regardless.

[historypete]

This is my two cents. I think we need to focus our early picks on the offense. We've reconstructed the Defense between the last two drafts and this offseason. I think with Stroud, Johnson and Mitchell along with a healthy Poz the pass rush will be much better. A strong pass rush means a whole better secondary, so I think drafting a guy at 11 is a bad move. We can get a good corner in the 2nd or 3rd.

What this team desperately needs is offensive talent. It is great our D might hold teams to 17 points or under, but with the skill talent we have on Offense we're only going to put up 13 points as usual. We need that big WR, who can make an impact. Yeah history says they rarely do make immedaite impacts but I think we have to take that chance. Then we need a true playmaking TE. I'm so sick of "bobbles" Royal and Anderson, I don't think will do much.

I don't want another DE, we already have a ton of money tied up in that position. If we were to dump some salary from there through a decent trade I might be for it. I know we have the salary cap room but I still don't like the idea of tying up that much cap space at one position.

My ideal situation would be to have someone of value drop far enough that a team will throw a good trade our way. Maybe Dallas, Philly or someone will covet a player they want/need. Then we can move back, gain a few extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd, and then grab Devin Thomas. I've soured on Kelly with his poor pro-day showing and knee problems. I think Thomas is the best choice of the two considering his upside and lack of health issues.

If we are stuck at #11 and can't move back then I bite the bullet and take Thomas again. Like I said we need offensive talent, and although he might not make an immediate impact we must also think long term health of the offense and team. His upside makes him the right pick there, in my opinion.

[Philagape]

DE (Harvey or Merling?) and CB (DRC or McKelvin?) have no clear-cut consensus either. And no position stands out as far as hit/miss ratio or development time. It all depends on the individual.
All that's equal as far as I'm concerned, so I choose the biggest need, which is overwhelmingly WR.

[HHURRICANE]

The problem i have with taking another position at 11 other than WR is that the top CB prospects in the draft are all small school, never covered anyone that was a top ranked WR,
DE we have so much money tied up to this position that i dont see us taking a player at 11 to be the 4th man in the rotation and paying him starter money, the position needs to be addressed but not at 11

WR is the clear cut option to get the best player at his position in the draft, if the Bills didnt think so why did they bring in Bryant Johnson and try and sign him, why did they go to Kelly's pro day and have him and Devin THomas in for a visit if they didnt think that is there biggest need in the draft!

Why did we sign Will James with 44 career starts under his belt, we are also returning both starters, and have to ex 3rd rounders as depth, not nobodys in youboty and fox,i think CB in the 3rd round would be the right time to take one

WR Devin Thomas is the real deal and another thing alot of people are overlooking is the fact that he returns kicks, he is a former RB, so he is amazing after the catch and he had 79 catches last yr, Sweed and Kelly arent even close to that production, plus the fact he is 6ft 2 and 218lbs and runs a 4.4 those are andre johnson intangibles, and rookie WRs can make impacts all season look at Bowe, Colston etc...

We need O first not D

You continue to be the best poster on this site hands down. Even when you and I don't agree I love the way you bring intelligent analysis to this board.

You make a very good case for Thomas. However, do you feel at 6' 2" he gives us the "red zone" advantage we have been looking for? Doesn't it make sense to trade down if we covet the position that badly?

[PECKERWOOD]

This is my two cents. I think we need to focus our early picks on the offense. We've reconstructed the Defense between the last two drafts and this offseason. I think with Stroud, Johnson and Mitchell along with a healthy Poz the pass rush will be much better. A strong pass rush means a whole better secondary, so I think drafting a guy at 11 is a bad move. We can get a good corner in the 2nd or 3rd.

What this team desperately needs is offensive talent. It is great our D might hold teams to 17 points or under, but with the skill talent we have on Offense we're only going to put up 13 points as usual. We need that big WR, who can make an impact. Yeah history says they rarely do make immedaite impacts but I think we have to take that chance. Then we need a true playmaking TE. I'm so sick of "bobbles" Royal and Anderson, I don't think will do much.

I don't want another DE, we already have a ton of money tied up in that position. If we were to dump some salary from there through a decent trade I might be for it. I know we have the salary cap room but I still don't like the idea of tying up that much cap space at one position.

My ideal situation would be to have someone of value drop far enough that a team will throw a good trade our way. Maybe Dallas, Philly or someone will covet a player they want/need. Then we can move back, gain a few extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd, and then grab Devin Thomas. I've soured on Kelly with his poor pro-day showing and knee problems. I think Thomas is the best choice of the two considering his upside and lack of health issues.

If we are stuck at #11 and can't move back then I bite the bullet and take Thomas again. Like I said we need offensive talent, and although he might not make an immediate impact we must also think long term health of the offense and team. His upside makes him the right pick there, in my opinion.

I think we've made a mistake by investing so much money into Denney and Kelsay.. Schobel's future is a mystery to me. 94 has proven that he can be an elite DE in the NFL, but can he do it day in and day out? Let's bring in a guy like Harvey and ease the loss of Denney or Kelsay next season when we /cut them! If we decide to go BPA at #11 for me it goes: 1.) Rivers 2.) DRC 3.) Harvey.

[HHURRICANE]

I don't want another DE, we already have a ton of money tied up in that position. If we were to dump some salary from there through a decent trade I might be for it. I know we have the salary cap room but I still don't like the idea of tying up that much cap space at one position.



I liked your post but hate this argument.

We had no choice on Kelsay. He was the best FA DE on the market at the time and another team would have paid him what we did. The problem was renewing Schobel when he had a contract in place and getting 6 sacks from a guy that inexplicably lost 20 pounds with no pushing from the coaching staff.

Harvey addresses the inevitable sirtuation regarding Schobel. I will bet money that Schobel will be a non factor this year even with the improvement in the middle and at LB and we will be most likely sending him out the door. I'd like to have a guy that is in his second year replacing him instead of, as usual, having to ask a ROOKIE TO COME IN AND START.

[John Doe]

Josh Reed the bust is another very glaring reason why we need to take another WR, he is awful and has got by 6yrs in the league cause of his blocking, He is a bum and a cap eater and should have been replaced when he was a FA, but that was another great FA move by Levy, the man could draft but signing players was not something he was very good at

Josh Reed is an average wide receiver.

Definately not a bust.

[PECKERWOOD]

I liked your post but hate this argument.

We had no choice on Kelsay. He was the best FA DE on the market at the time and another team would have paid him what we did. The problem was renewing Schobel when he had a contract in place and getting 6 sacks from a guy that inexplicably lost 20 pounds with no pushing from the coaching staff.

Harvey addresses the inevitable sirtuation regarding Schobel. I will bet money that Schobel will be a non factor this year even with the improvement in the middle and at LB and we will be most likely sending him out the door. I'd like to have a guy that is in his second year replacing him instead of, as usual, having to ask a ROOKIE TO COME IN AND START.

I agree with most of what you said, but we differ in who we think the rookie will be replacing next year. I think Kelsay better step it up this year or he is gone.. You can get similar production out of Denney (when healthy ) at half the costs.

[bigbub2352]

Josh Reed is an average wide receiver.

Definately not a bust.


He was taken awfully early in the 2nd rd, and his production has been awful, he has dropped alot of passes and i am sorry but never makes a big catch or a big play, anyways he can easly be upgraded and pretty much anyone of the FA WRs that we could have signed would have been an instant up grade, Johnson, hackett, Jackson, Etc.

Just alot of negatives for the former Beiltnikoff Winner, u no he sucks when u ask someone about Josh Reed and there first response is what a blocker, Not good for a number 2 or 3 Wr in the NFL

[bigbub2352]

You continue to be the best poster on this site hands down. Even when you and I don't agree I love the way you bring intelligent analysis to this board.

You make a very good case for Thomas. However, do you feel at 6' 2" he gives us the "red zone" advantage we have been looking for? Doesn't it make sense to trade down if we covet the position that badly?

I look at it this way. 6ft 2 and 4.4 speed allows him to get open also posessing a 32inch vertical doesnt hurt, and Kelly has a 32inch vertical, i think we hould still look long and hard in rds 5-7 at another WR with big size, like Purify, Hubbard, Urithtia, Monk, etc.

We need talent on the O side of the ball we need to come out of this draft with 2 WRs, a TE, a FB, all the rest is depth

[acehole]

BPA

Period.

or

Trade down.


I have been very outspoken about not taking a WR at #11. We need not one, but two WRs, so I know how important it is to this team. If there was a clear cut front runner, like Calvin Johnson last year, than I would say absolutely take him at #11.

Here are my main reasons:

1) It will take 8 games before any rookie WR will have an impact. It's the nature of the position. By that time we could be 3-5 and already out of playoff contention. I don't have to tell anybody how our bad starts, year after year, have cost us any chance at a run.

2) There other players in the draft that could have an impact in week 1 that are worthy of a #11 pick. They may help us win games while our 2nd round WR develops.

3) There is no doubt that one of the top 3 WRs that every one keeps talking about will be available in the second round. The Bills have moved up with their 2nd pick 2 years in a row so why not this year, if necessary?

You folks can't even agree on which WR we take. Sweed, Thomas, Kelly? Some analysts have Doucet and Jackson ranked higher. We are narrowing the position because we want "big".

There are positions on this board where at #11 there is no debate.

After Peterson came off the board there was no debate that Lynch was the next best RB on the board. Period. You can't say this at WR.

[John Doe]

He was taken awfully early in the 2nd rd, and his production has been awful...

Reed caught 51 passes last year. Now, that is not great for a # 2 receiver, but it was a significant part of the Bills passing offense last season.


...he has dropped alot of passes..
Reed was credited with only 2 drops last year. That is not bad at all.


...and i am sorry but never makes a big catch or a big play
Never? Reed caught the pass that set up Lindell for the game winner last year while the Bills were still in the playoff hunt. His quick fake and cut upfield for extra yards after the catch was a huge play. I remember him having a big TD catch against the Dolphins the year before in Buffalo when 3 defenders bounced off him. He has certainly not made a large number of "big plays" but to say that he never makes them is an exaggeration.


anyways he can easly be upgraded and pretty much anyone of the FA WRs that we could have signed would have been an instant up grade, Johnson, hackett, Jackson, Etc.

Just alot of negatives for the former Beiltnikoff Winner, u no he sucks when u ask someone about Josh Reed and there first response is what a blocker, Not good for a number 2 or 3 Wr in the NFL

Maybe so, but those guys did not have eye-popping numbers last season either:

Hackett only had 32 receptions.
Johnson only had 46 with 4 drops - and you thougt Reed had bad hands?


Just alot of negatives for the former Beiltnikoff Winner, u no he sucks when u ask someone about Josh Reed and there first response is what a blocker, Not good for a number 2 or 3 Wr in the NFL

Reed is certainly no all-star, but he is not a bust. Even if he does not make the team this year, he earned his pay last year.

[Mahdi]

I look at it this way. 6ft 2 and 4.4 speed allows him to get open also posessing a 32inch vertical doesnt hurt, and Kelly has a 32inch vertical, i think we hould still look long and hard in rds 5-7 at another WR with big size, like Purify, Hubbard, Urithtia, Monk, etc.

We need talent on the O side of the ball we need to come out of this draft with 2 WRs, a TE, a FB, all the rest is depth
I feel the exact same way... if you think about it the Bills werent too bad in the points allowed category last year and with the new additions as you said and the return of Poz we should be that much better.

Jauron knows very well that we need to put points on the board which is why I agree that they will draft at least 2 WRs (one in the first) a TE and possibly a FB.

I think we need to use the second round pick on a pass rushing DE though.

Thomas

Avril

Bennett/Carleson

CB and WR

FB

LB

RB

QB

[HHURRICANE]

I look at it this way. 6ft 2 and 4.4 speed allows him to get open also posessing a 32inch vertical doesnt hurt, and Kelly has a 32inch vertical, i think we hould still look long and hard in rds 5-7 at another WR with big size, like Purify, Hubbard, Urithtia, Monk, etc.

We need talent on the O side of the ball we need to come out of this draft with 2 WRs, a TE, a FB, all the rest is depth

No matter what we need to come out the draft with 2 WRs and a TE prospect. No argument there at all.

[bigbub2352]

Reed caught 51 passes last year. Now, that is not great for a # 2 receiver, but it was a significant part of the Bills passing offense last season.


Reed was credited with only 2 drops last year. That is not bad at all.


Never? Reed caught the pass that set up Lindell for the game winner last year while the Bills were still in the playoff hunt. His quick fake and cut upfield for extra yards after the catch was a huge play. I remember him having a big TD catch against the Dolphins the year before in Buffalo when 3 defenders bounced off him. He has certainly not made a large number of "big plays" but to say that he never makes them is an exaggeration.



Maybe so, but those guys did not have eye-popping numbers last season either:

Hackett only had 32 receptions.
Johnson only had 46 with 4 drops - and you thougt Reed had bad hands?



Reed is certainly no all-star, but he is not a bust. Even if he does not make the team this year, he earned his pay last year.


Good post!!!

I am sorry but even though he had 51 rec last year how many of them went for 2 yards, he also never breaks tackles and never gets open in the redzone, he u also pointed out 2 examples of him making plays ,

That is all well and good but he has been here for 6yrs, and he has what 2-3 seasons with out a single TD catch, he struggles with his consistency to catch balls, and he has 0 YAC ability, and that was suppossed to be his strength coming out of college,

That being said i agree that he is an average player and we could do alot worse in the slot but still we were ranked 30th on O for a reason and upgrades are needed especially at WR, we need size which he doesnt have, we need someone to draw the double teams away from LEE which he doesnt provide and we need someone to get opne in the redzone which he also cant do

Any way you look at it the i guess he is a hell of a blocker

So we need threats at the position, and Size, and Redzone ability

We also need a TE who opens up the middle of the feild

Reed is not the answer even as a number 3 on a potent offense, we need to upgrade!!

[bigbub2352]

No matter what we need to come out the draft with 2 WRs and a TE prospect. No argument there at all.

Couldnt agree more HH my friend

We need to do at the very least to a 30th ranked offense add some Threats
not players going thru the motions

[bigbub2352]

I feel the exact same way... if you think about it the Bills werent too bad in the points allowed category last year and with the new additions as you said and the return of Poz we should be that much better.

Jauron knows very well that we need to put points on the board which is why I agree that they will draft at least 2 WRs (one in the first) a TE and possibly a FB.

I think we need to use the second round pick on a pass rushing DE though.

Thomas

Avril

Bennett/Carleson

CB and WR

FB

LB

RB

QB


I like it alot, what yu are saying i think the more u add the better Trent will be with this new offense

I will be doin a mock later on closer to the draft but i think our first 5 rds should look like this with out trades

1. Devin Thomas WR MSU

2. Brandon Flowers CB VT

3. Jermichael Finley TE Texas

4. Bryant Johnson DE Gardner Webb

4. Owen Schmitt FB

5. DT Frank Okam Texas

That fills holes and adds depth
6th round WR
7th
OLB
OT
QB

[PECKERWOOD]

I feel the exact same way... if you think about it the Bills werent too bad in the points allowed category last year and with the new additions as you said and the return of Poz we should be that much better.

Jauron knows very well that we need to put points on the board which is why I agree that they will draft at least 2 WRs (one in the first) a TE and possibly a FB.

I think we need to use the second round pick on a pass rushing DE though.

Thomas

Avril

Bennett/Carleson

CB and WR

FB

LB

RB

QB

Avril is better suited at LB.

[justasportsfan]

reed is another victim of constant coaching , OL and especially Qb changes. He's never been viewed as a great no. 2 but he's been the most consistent wr on this team whether it was developing JP or Trent. Ask Moulds what it felt like being on the bills team that NEVER HAD ANY STABILITY OFFENSIVELY at the positions mentioned above. I'm sure he hoped he was drafted by the colts instead of Harrison.

There are way more problems with this team and Reed isn't one of them. He isn't anything great but he's he's been the only consistent thing on offense.

He does his best with whats given to him. He's a team player. He's been a very welcome safety net for both qb's.

Josh is a good people.

[Mahdi]

Avril is better suited at LB.
He was a DE in college and although he is a faster, lighter and athletic DE that type of DE is a good fit in a cover 2. There are so many DEs in the NFL right now that play in cover 2 schemes that are light. Gaines Adams (6'5 258), Robert Mathis (6'2 245), Mark Anderson (6'4 255), Ogunleye (6'4 260), Alex Brown (6'3 260), Schobel (6'4 243), Derrick Burgess (6'4 260, not cover 2).


All of these guys are solid NFL defensive ends. Cliff Avril is 6'3 252... One year in an NFL training program should get him up 5 pounds at least maybe more which is perfect for an every down starter in the NFL at DE, particularly for a cover 2 D. Until then he can be a 3rd down pass rush specialist for us which we all know is desperately needed judging from the lack of pressure we were getting on Qbs in obvious passing situations which led to 13 and 15 play drives way too often. Even if he stays at his current weight in his rookie year I can see Avril replacing Kelsay as the every down starter by mid-season.