Ralph created a problem that never existed.

[HHURRICANE]

I have to give the greedy little **** some credit. He brilliantly created a problem that never existed.

The team makes money every year and he ranks in the top 3rd of the league for his net income derived from the Bills.

But the teams long term viability is at risk? We have always been in the top 10 for attendance. And the team makes a profit every year?

Plain and simple people. The team is worth about 200 million dollars more in LA or Tornoto. This is all a smoke screen for selling the team out and lining his families pockets.

[YardRat]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

Show me a link or any documentation that indicates the team is actually making a net profit of any substance.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

You pay taxes on your net operating income. He went from 12th to 10th after he paid his taxes.

[Mitchy moo]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

We make money, there is no problem.

[venis2k1]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

the whalers made money too.

[YardRat]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

You pay taxes on your net operating income. He went from 12th to 10th after he paid his taxes.

Where is this '10th' ranking? I haven't been able to find it, but would be interested in seeing it.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

Actually the Bills are 7th in operating income....

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_Income.html

But 27th in Revenue.

BTW The Colts? They're 31st in Revenue.

[ddaryl]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

yes I agree.. Ralph wants to line his families pockets with as much $$$ as possible.

and I think that is a real greedy crappy thing to do considering how much the franchise will have made him by the time he sells...

So the Bills made 34.6 million after expenses for the 2006 season. It will be interesting to see what the #'s are from last year.



here are the numbers for revenue

Rank	Team	Current Value ($mil)	1-Yr Value Change (%)	Debt/Value (%)	Revenue ($mil)	Operating Income ($mil)
2	Washington Redskins	1,467	3	16	312	66.0
3	New England Patriots	1,199	2	25	255	34.9
1	Dallas Cowboys	1,500	28	42	242	4.3
4	Houston Texans	1,056	1	28	225	25.9
5	Philadelphia Eagles	1,052	3	17	224	25.7
15	Miami Dolphins	942	3	37	215	11.2
6	Denver Broncos	994	2	20	212	15.9
7	Chicago Bears	984	4	19	209	36.9
9	Cleveland Browns	969	0	10	206	20.6
11	Baltimore Ravens	965	2	28	205	1.0
12	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	963	1	15	205	39.5
14	Carolina Panthers	956	2	13	203	2.5
16	Pittsburgh Steelers	929	6	8	198	20.0
17	Green Bay Packers	927	2	4	197	20.3
13	Kansas City Chiefs	960	7	14	196	35.2
18	Tennessee Titans	922	4	14	196	24.2

Rank	Team	Current Value ($mil)	1-Yr Value Change (%)	Debt/Value (%)	Revenue ($mil)	Operating Income ($mil)
19	Seattle Seahawks	921	4	13	196	-2.6
8	New York Giants	974	9	67	195	10.7
20	Cincinnati Bengals	912	11	11	194	11.7
25	New Orleans Saints	854	16	15	194	25.2
10	New York Jets	967	10	67	193	26.4
22	St Louis Rams	908	8	4	193	17.9
26	San Diego Chargers	826	13	12	192	19.2
23	Arizona Cardinals	888	13	17	189	4.6
24	Detroit Lions	870	4	40	189	-1.8
27	Buffalo Bills	821	9	9	189	34.6
28	Oakland Raiders	812	10	7	189	46.2
29	Jacksonville Jaguars	811	9	14	189	22.1
30	San Francisco 49ers	799	9	13	186	9.9
31	Atlanta Falcons	796	9	34	185	-3.4
21	Indianapolis Colts	911	9	11	184	-17.3
32	Minnesota Vikings	782	9	40	182	-19.1

here are the numbers for operating income

Rank	Team	Current Value ($mil)	1-Yr Value Change (%)	Debt/Value (%)	Revenue ($mil)	Operating Income ($mil)
2	Washington Redskins	1,467	3	16	312	66.0
28	Oakland Raiders	812	10	7	189	46.2
12	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	963	1	15	205	39.5
7	Chicago Bears	984	4	19	209	36.9
13	Kansas City Chiefs	960	7	14	196	35.2
3	New England Patriots	1,199	2	25	255	34.9
27	Buffalo Bills	821	9	9	189	34.6
10	New York Jets	967	10	67	193	26.4
4	Houston Texans	1,056	1	28	225	25.9
5	Philadelphia Eagles	1,052	3	17	224	25.7
25	New Orleans Saints	854	16	15	194	25.2
18	Tennessee Titans	922	4	14	196	24.2
29	Jacksonville Jaguars	811	9	14	189	22.1
9	Cleveland Browns	969	0	10	206	20.6
17	Green Bay Packers	927	2	4	197	20.3
16	Pittsburgh Steelers	929	6	8	198	20.0

Rank	Team	Current Value ($mil)	1-Yr Value Change (%)	Debt/Value (%)	Revenue ($mil)	Operating Income ($mil)
26	San Diego Chargers	826	13	12	192	19.2
22	St Louis Rams	908	8	4	193	17.9
6	Denver Broncos	994	2	20	212	15.9
20	Cincinnati Bengals	912	11	11	194	11.7
15	Miami Dolphins	942	3	37	215	11.2
8	New York Giants	974	9	67	195	10.7
30	San Francisco 49ers	799	9	13	186	9.9
23	Arizona Cardinals	888	13	17	189	4.6
1	Dallas Cowboys	1,500	28	42	242	4.3
14	Carolina Panthers	956	2	13	203	2.5
11	Baltimore Ravens	965	2	28	205	1.0
24	Detroit Lions	870	4	40	189	-1.8
19	Seattle Seahawks	921	4	13	196	-2.6
31	Atlanta Falcons	796	9	34	185	-3.4
21	Indianapolis Colts	911	9	11	184	-17.3
32	Minnesota Vikings	782	9	40	182	-19.1

[BillyT92679]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

Honestly, do we need to see thread after thread about how horrible Ralph is? Like it or not, he's the owner of the team. These threads after a while serve no purpose other than to vent. Okay so Ralph is maximizing revenue and the team has been lousy. If I find it really problematic then the only logical course is to no longer support the team. What am I going to do, picket One Bills Drive? They are a private enterprise, they can be run whatever way they want. And it's your and my choice to support them or not. Right now I will continue to support them. Either support them or not. It's really more black and white than people want to give credit for.

[Goobylal]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

I have to give the greedy little **** some credit. He brilliantly created a problem that never existed.

The team makes money every year and he ranks in the top 3rd of the league for his net income derived from the Bills.

But the teams long term viability is at risk? We have always been in the top 10 for attendance. And the team makes a profit every year?

Plain and simple people. The team is worth about 200 million dollars more in LA or Tornoto. This is all a smoke screen for selling the team out and lining his families pockets.

What are you not getting here? Ralph has NO DEBT when it comes to the team or stadium. Therefore he makes decent NET income. A new owner will need to plunk down $800M to buy the team and since he'll have that debt, the net income will be much lower, if not negative depending on what he spends on coaches and players.

And if you think Ralph can sell it at a discount to someone, get real. The NFL needs to approve any sale, because the other teams' values get affected. The only thing Ralph could have done was sell the team about a decade and a half ago, before the explosion in prices.

Oh and there's a relocation fee that owners must pay, which is in the $200M range currently. So it's not as easy as buying it and moving it.

[YardRat]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

I still don't give a **** what the operating income is...it sure as hell doesn't equal what Ralph is putting in his pocket.

[HAMMER]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

Piss and moan, piss and moan. Good God it is old.

[jamze132]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of all the Ralph Wilson slams.

[TedMock]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

I still don't give a **** what the operating income is...it sure as hell doesn't equal what Ralph is putting in his pocket.

That's a very important figure when doing even a basic valuation. Yes, interest, taxes, amortization, depreciation are not icluded, but these are figures that can be manipulated. For our purposes, operating income is what we have to go on. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but a blanket statement like this makes zero sense when we're really talking about the business side of this game. The fact is that this is not a public company, so we may not be privy to how Ralph reports and changes his scheduling every year. We also know that he has two sets of financials - 1 for the regulators (IRS) and one for valuation. He'll account for these numbers in different ways depending on what his objective is. Operating income is important.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Ralph created a problem that never existed.

the whalers made money too.

I lived in Farmington, CT when they left so this is not a true statement. They were only getting 10,000 fans per game. I loved the Whalers but this statement is not true.