Peter King says Miami wanted to trade down and take Harvey!!

[HHURRICANE]

The Dolphins thought so highly of Harvey that they were willing to trade down and still take him in the top 10 if they couldn't get the deal they wanted done with Long.

[Dr. Lecter]

There was also a story yesterday that they were ready to talk to Chris Long if the Jake Long deal did not work out.

[eyedog]

The Dolphins thought so highly of Harvey that they were willing to trade down and still take him in the top 10 if they couldn't get the deal they wanted done with Long.

Why would Parcells want to do such a thing ? There are cb's and other d-ends better than him.

If Harvey is still there at #11 they had better grab him.

[HHURRICANE]

There was also a story yesterday that they were ready to talk to Chris Long if the Jake Long deal did not work out.

I think Miami was looking to get out of the top spot and get picks. They need them badly and the #1 pick contract sucks.

[HHURRICANE]

Why would Parcells want to do such a thing ? There are cb's and other d-ends better than him.

If Harvey is still there at #11 they had better grab him.

???? How are they grabbing him at #11?

This is whet Peter King reported. He said that Miami had a "higher" value for him than other teams.

Obviously, Miami can tip their hat now as they already signed their top pick.

[!Papacrunk!]

well the talks of a Jason Taylor trade never seem to go away, so don't be surprised if there is a trade and maybe one to get back into the later part of the 1st round. It'd suck to see him go, but if some value (late 1st or high second) can be had while teams can still view 33-34 year old Taylor then so be it. Just no trades to the AFCEast, lol.

[eyedog]

???? How are they grabbing him at #11?

This is whet Peter King reported. He said that Miami had a "higher" value for him than other teams.

Obviously, Miami can tip their hat now as they already signed their top pick.


I'm looking for another certain team that has the #11 pick to take Harvey.

[feelthepain]

I think Miami was looking to get out of the top spot and get picks. They need them badly and the #1 pick contract sucks.

Really? We need them badly? I don't agree with your thinking here, I think Bill likes having options, but we already 4 of the top 100 picks. It's not like we only a 2nd and 4th. I think every team wants more picks. I love how Bill fans are so sure Miami is in a desperate state. I'll promise you, you won't see the Dolphins struggle this year like they did last year. Even at 1-15 with all our all injuries we didn't have the worst offense and deffense in the league in 07. We aren't as far out as you want us to be.

[kernowboy]

I think the best option here for us is KC Chiefs

We do not need Harvey ... he is luxury pick. We need a big No2, a TE, a CB (though not as urgently having signed James) and then DL help.

If the Chiefs take Chris Long or Gholston at No5, then they still need a LT and Clady or Williams won't fall to No17.

If the Chiefs take Albert or Clady reaching at No5, they still need a DE. They will easily sacrifice No17 + No66 to get there.

This allows us to trade down and get our No2 WR in Thomas, Sweed or my personal preference at No17 and still be able to pick up a quality CB, TE and maybe a decent young DT in R2 and R3.

[justasportsfan]

well the talks of a Jason Taylor trade never seem to go away, so don't be surprised if there is a trade and maybe one to get back into the later part of the 1st round. It'd suck to see him go, but if some value (late 1st or high second) can be had while teams can still view 33-34 year old Taylor then so be it. Just no trades to the AFCEast, lol.
I suspect the fins will trade back up to the first rd.

[Mitchy moo]

4-12 would be a good step up from 1-15 is all I'm saying. I don't have the first clue how Miami will do, I don't pay nearly as much attention to their roster/schedule (though i'm sure it's quite similar of course)/etc.

They have easier teams to play this year, just like us. 3 more wins is likely just because of that alone. Throw in a great draft (Long being a good start) and they may get to 5 wins.

[trapezeus]

that's the fun of being the GM with the dolphins right now. Anything you do is an improvement from last year. take a #1, make a trade. anything is better than last year.

And FTP, i disagree with you. i think this year has the potential to repeat last years "performance". new coaching staff, young players, all the veterans stripped out of the team and you have the makings of another ugly year.

this is rebuilding. If they aren't 1-15 this year or at best 5-11, i'd be shocked. I'd be happy to give you all my zonebucks if the dolphins beat 5-11. They aren't making a huge turnaround. Everyone who is a fan of the NFL admits that it is at least a 2 year project of drafting well and free agent pick ups to get this team back to respectability. And i use the word respectability loosely as its difficult to be respectable and play in teal.

[justasportsfan]

They have easier teams to play .
thats what all the teams that are playing miami are also saying.

[feelthepain]

4-12 would be a good step up from 1-15 is all I'm saying. I don't have the first clue how Miami will do, I don't pay nearly as much attention to their roster/schedule (though i'm sure it's quite similar of course)/etc.

All I'm sayin is the Bills are just as far from being a good team as any team in the league. You don't have to agree, but I'll promise you I could make a stronger argument to backup my opinion of the Bills then anyone could toward the contrary. I just find it amusing that Bill fans are under this delusion their team is better then they really are.

[mchurchfie]

We aren't as far out as you want us to be.



I just find it amusing that Bill fans are under this delusion their team is better then they really are.
:shakeno:

[feelthepain]

that's the fun of being the GM with the dolphins right now. Anything you do is an improvement from last year. take a #1, make a trade. anything is better than last year.

And FTP, i disagree with you. i think this year has the potential to repeat last years "performance". new coaching staff, young players, all the veterans stripped out of the team and you have the makings of another ugly year.

this is rebuilding. If they aren't 1-15 this year or at best 5-11, i'd be shocked. I'd be happy to give you all my zonebucks if the dolphins beat 5-11. They aren't making a huge turnaround. Everyone who is a fan of the NFL admits that it is at least a 2 year project of drafting well and free agent pick ups to get this team back to respectability. And i use the word respectability loosely as its difficult to be respectable and play in teal.

I disagree because Miami wasn't as bad as their record in 07. Miami has also made more then just a change in talnt and age. They have a coaching staff that's fresh off a really good team. Most of the new coaches we have are from a winning organization. They also take most of what they're doing from BP himself, he's the one who influences everyone else.

Miami could have been 7-9 last year, they lost 6 games by 3 points or less. We had better numbers on both sides of the Ball then the Bills, obviously we had our share of bad bounces. This year we've already learned our strength and conditioning programs are some of the toughest our guy's have ever been through. The leadership from top to bottom is unquestionably better and we've gotten younger from top to bottom. Miami will be better.

[BlackMetalNinja]

All I'm sayin is the Bills are just as far from being a good team as any team in the league. You don't have to agree, but I'll promise you I could make a stronger argument to backup my opinion of the Bills then anyone could toward the contrary. I just find it amusing that Bill fans are under this delusion their team is better then they really are.

I'm trying to figure out how you think 1-15 and 7-9 are "just as far from being good"... Especially when 2 of those 7 came against your team. It's pretty mind boggling. If you asked 100 people that had any clue about the NFL at all which team was better, 90% of them at least would say Buffalo.

[methos4ever]

Look, I'm not a big person on knocking teams, especially in-division. But to suggest the Dolphins, because they were statistically better than the Bills in categories will be better this year is ridiculous. As bad as the Bills were last year at times, they were not one Felton Huggins reception away from being 1-15. As bad as the Bills were at times last year, they did not draft a "kick returner" to help build their team. As bad as the Bills may have been at times in the season, they did not at any point quit on their coach or their teammates.

If we go by the "if you look at the losses we could have won x game" the Bills could have gone 10-6 and in the Playoffs.

And as bad as the Bills have ever drafted, they have not taken a RT and given him LT money with the first overall pick. We did it with the fourth! :nod:

[mchurchfie]

Really? We need them badly? I don't agree with your thinking here, I think Bill likes having options, but we already 4 of the top 100 picks. It's not like we only a 2nd and 4th. I think every team wants more picks. I love how Bill fans are so sure Miami is in a desperate state. I'll promise you, you won't see the Dolphins struggle this year like they did last year. Even at 1-15 with all our all injuries we didn't have the worst offense and deffense in the league in 07. We aren't as far out as you want us to be.
Having four of the top 100 picks isn't something to be proud of, it is a sure sign of a ****ty team. But, you keep pissing in the wind and telling us how sweet the rain is and us Billsfans will hold the fan for you, ok Slip?:up:

[justasportsfan]

But to suggest the Dolphins, because they were statistically better than the Bills in categories will be better this year is ridiculous. most finfans will agree with you too except the town clown.

[Dr. Lecter]

Miami could have been 7-9 last year, they lost 6 games by 3 points or less. We had better numbers on both sides of the Ball then the Bills, obviously we had our share of bad bounces. This year we've already learned our strength and conditioning programs are some of the toughest our guy's have ever been through. The leadership from top to bottom is unquestionably better and we've gotten younger from top to bottom. Miami will be better.

And the Bills lost 2 games by 3 or less, so they could have been 9-7. Correct?

[justasportsfan]

The leadership from top to bottom is unquestionably better and we've gotten younger from top to bottom. Miami will be better.
thats what you said about your coaches the last two years and we still made your team our *****.

You have the same stupid opinion but the opposite results happen. It shows your stupidity.

Every year you cry "We're better than our record says" :coocoo:

[trapezeus]

here are the issues i see with the dolphins for 2008:
- Ronnie brown coming off knee injury. the culpepper story should serve as a fresh reminder that those take two years
- QB still unresolved. Beck looked terrible. it's one thing to have a bad line and not get time as a rookie. but those QB's take sacks and try to force throws. Beck just looked hurried and lost out there. he's on a short leash since he wasn't BP's guy. i can't see them doing too well with him.
- Defense. Jason Taylor wants out, and the rest of them are collecting social security checks.
-coaching, regardless of what winning organization they came from, they weren't HCs. And having a strong personality like Tuna overlooking them like FTP says, sounds like a recipe for disaster.
- Who are the dolphins receivers again?

[feelthepain]

And the Bills lost 2 games by 3 or less, so they could have been 9-7. Correct?

Sure.

[feelthepain]

here are the issues i see with the dolphins for 2008:
- Ronnie brown coming off knee injury. the culpepper story should serve as a fresh reminder that those take two years

Culpepper tore all three ligaments, Ronnie just one. Carson Palmer came back in just one season to play without an issue from a one ligament tear, and he needs to put just as much force on his plant leg to make throws and avoid the rush as Ronnie does to make his cuts. No reason to believe Ronnies injury was nearly as severe as Culpeppers. All reports indicate Ronnie is ready for mini camp.


- QB still unresolved. Beck looked terrible. it's one thing to have a bad line and not get time as a rookie. but those QB's take sacks and try to force throws. Beck just looked hurried and lost out there. he's on a short leash since he wasn't BP's guy. i can't see them doing too well with him.
Bill fans are going to continue to look at everything outside of Buffalo with an urealistic opinion. Obviously Beck had the cards stacked against him from the word go.

I know Bill fans refuse to look at all the facts and here's yet another example. John Beck was third on the dolphins depth chart at QB. Which means he wasn't given any snaps with the first team till week 11. No mini camp, No regular camp, no pre season, and no regular season snaps with the starters till week 11.

Whe John did get the snaps, there was no Ronnie Brown, no Chris Chambers. He had a rookie WR, C, FB and the defense was totally decimated with injuries. And starting for an 0-11 team. I think there is way more disadvantage to what John Beck started with then you put in your post.

On the flip side, Trent Edwards had all of his weapons on the field and yet the Dolphins still managed to finish the season with better offensive statistics then the Bills, that's ahuge statement. BTW Trents numbers are hardly a reason for optimism in Buffalo. More Int's then TD's and none of his games were steallar by any account. So far this off season Beck has received more attaention then he did all of 07. He's added muscle and weight and he's be working exclusively with the new OC in Miami.


- Defense. Jason Taylor wants out, and the rest of them are collecting social security checks.
Stupid evaluation/opnion, but one I'll address. Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the Dolphins off season, so why make a stupid obsevation about where the Defense is in Miami? BTW, Miami finishe statistically better on Defens then the Bills last year. But does that reflect in your bias opinion, nope! Sure doesn't say much about the Bills pathetic Defense.


-coaching, regardless of what winning organization they came from, they weren't HCs. And having a strong personality like Tuna overlooking them like FTP says, sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Says the fan of a team who's HC has but one winning season under his belt and if that weren't bad enough, that winning season wasn't with your beloved Bills. Umm, just what is it you know about Football that makes anyone believe your opinion is worthy of the time it takes to write it? Seriously, Bill fans are just hilarious. "Oh the Dolphins suck" say the fans of team on the verge of a ten year losing streak!!


- Who are the dolphins receivers again?
Who are the Bills receivers again? Oh that's right there's only one and he's a whinny llitle girl...."I can't play football with anyone but JP...BOO, HOOO, HOOO!!!"

Yeah, the Bills are a serious threat to the league, look out there a playoff team. In the minds of Bill fans anyway.

[BlackMetalNinja]

You keep saying "bills fans"... go find me other fans around the league that think the Dolphins are a better team than the Bills... please... I'm begging you.

[justasportsfan]

You keep saying "bills fans"... go find me other fans around the league that think the Dolphins are a better team than the Bills... please... I'm begging you.
and then FTP logs out.

[feelthepain]

You keep saying "bills fans"... go find me other fans around the league that think the Dolphins are a better team than the Bills... please... I'm begging you.

Where have I said the Dolphins are better or worse then anyone. My point is, the Bills aren't as good as "Bill fans" think they are.

[feelthepain]

and then FTP logs out.
And Justa justwishes she were as smart as a log.

[justasportsfan]

Where have I said the Dolphins are better or worse then anyone. My point is, the Bills aren't as good as "Bill fans" think they are.

and what's your opinion . Are the bills better or worse than the fins?

[feelthepain]

and what's your opinion . Are the bills better or worse than the fins?
I guess we'll have to wait and see. Since neither team has taken a snap since they made all their trades and FA changes and won't take a snap till after they add their DP's we won't know. But surely even you're smart enough to figure that out...right?

[justasportsfan]

I guess we'll have to wait and see. Since neither team has taken a snap since they made all their trades and FA changes and won't take a snap till after they add their DP's we won't know. But surely even you're smart enough to figure that out...right?
haha! Now it's wait and see because the fins got swept 2 years in a row and finished 1-15. The last couple of years the fins were better according to you.

Rather than accept that we're better, "wait and see" . At least with wait and see, you're niether right nor wrong. In other words , you have no opinion.

I do have an opinion, we're better and I'll back it up with a bet that you will chicken out of anyways because you don't have a backbone.

[Mitchy moo]

haha! Now it's wait and see because the fins got swept 2 years in a row and finished 1-15. The last couple of years the fins were better according to you.

Rather than accept that we're better, "wait and see" . At least with wait and see, you're niether right nor wrong. In other words , you have no opinion.

I do have an opinion, we're better and I'll back it up with a bet that you will chicken out of anyways because you don't have a backbone.

Your challenging a guy that knows he can't win, just let him go. He understands that his team has been swept 2 years in a row.

[PECKERWOOD]

All I'm sayin is the Bills are just as far from being a good team as any team in the league. You don't have to agree, but I'll promise you I could make a stronger argument to backup my opinion of the Bills then anyone could toward the contrary. I just find it amusing that Bill fans are under this delusion their team is better then they really are.

Why do you always turn it around on the Bills? Miami sucked last year and they haven't done anything to prove that this year will be any different. Miami doesn't even have anybody good to play QB for them. Ronnie Brown is coming off a serious knee injury and he probably won't be 100% by the start of next year! Why you are being so optimistic is beyond me. Buffalo finished 7-9 last year and Miami finished 1-15, right now BUFFALO IS THE BETTER TEAM.

[justasportsfan]

Why do you always turn it around on the Bills? Miami sucked last year and they haven't done anything to prove that this year will be any different. Miami doesn't even have anybody good to play QB for them. Ronnie Brown is coming off a serious knee injury and he probably won't be 100% by the start of next year! Why you are being so optimistic is beyond me. Buffalo finished 7-9 last year and Miami finished 1-15, right now BUFFALO IS THE BETTER TEAM.
it's called denial. Rather concede that they suck, he'll turn it around.

[!Papacrunk!]

why do people keep on saying Miami is fielding a senior citizen team--even with Taylor, they're the 6th youngest team.

[YardRat]

King also said Buffalo was the front runner for Lito Sheppard.

Oooops.

[!Papacrunk!]

the Bills are on the upswing and seem to be putting the pieces together. I really think this year would be a major disappointment if they didn't make the playoffs--that Dallas game was very telling even though it was a loss.

Miami will be better than 1-15--in hindsight it seems like Cameron will forever be an OC, but never ever a HC. I know a lot of Dolphins fans seem to have a "this year it will be different attitude" but I think Parcells is making a great foundation, but Dolphins fans will have to be patient, but I don't see them as horrible as they were last year--the Bills reacted better with the injury bug, but the injury bug was brutal to our team as well. The Bills had better depth to help them weather through that storm.

[HHURRICANE]

the Bills are on the upswing and seem to be putting the pieces together. I really think this year would be a major disappointment if they didn't make the playoffs--that Dallas game was very telling even though it was a loss.

Miami will be better than 1-15--in hindsight it seems like Cameron will forever be an OC, but never ever a HC. I know a lot of Dolphins fans seem to have a "this year it will be different attitude" but I think Parcells is making a great foundation, but Dolphins fans will have to be patient, but I don't see them as horrible as they were last year--the Bills reacted better with the injury bug, but the injury bug was brutal to our team as well. The Bills had better depth to help them weather through that storm.

The Bills and Fins will both be better teams this year.

I think the Fins are going to still struggle this year but Parcells will get the ship turned around. I think I see 6 wins out of Miami this year.

[Ingtar33]

the bills will only make the playoffs if they can get a semi functional offense going. hell they would have made it last year had they been able to cobble together an average offense.

the fins have their own problems, one of them they will learn to their sorrow is the growing pains of a young team devoid of vet leadership, who doesn't know how to win in the NFL.

Gregg Williams, as questionable a head coach as he was, probably would have managed an 8-8 year his first year had the team not dumped it's vet talent.

When the dolphins learn to win they should be able to manage 6-10 to 7-9 type of season with the talent they have (assuming a healthy ron brown). Until they learn how to win, you could see successive 3-13, or 4-12 type years.

the real question facing a team like Miami is when will the coaching staff pull the pieces together. the sooner it happens the better it will be for the franchise. If it takes 2 years and no progress is made, you might see a new coaching staff in, and the fins start from square one like the Bengals did, time and time again during the 90's.

With Parcels in charge i don't see that happening.

my bet is the fins will hit 5-11 or 6-10 this year. with some good things to look forward to the following year (or at least a better idea on beck).

the bills should manage a 8-8 to 10-6 depending on the rest of the off season. and on our QB's development.

[feelthepain]

the bills will only make the playoffs if they can get a semi functional offense going. hell they would have made it last year had they been able to cobble together an average offense.

the fins have their own problems, one of them they will learn to their sorrow is the growing pains of a young team devoid of vet leadership, who doesn't know how to win in the NFL.

Gregg Williams, as questionable a head coach as he was, probably would have managed an 8-8 year his first year had the team not dumped it's vet talent.

When the dolphins learn to win they should be able to manage 6-10 to 7-9 type of season with the talent they have (assuming a healthy ron brown). Until they learn how to win, you could see successive 3-13, or 4-12 type years.

the real question facing a team like Miami is when will the coaching staff pull the pieces together. the sooner it happens the better it will be for the franchise. If it takes 2 years and no progress is made, you might see a new coaching staff in, and the fins start from square one like the Bengals did, time and time again during the 90's.

With Parcels in charge i don't see that happening.

my bet is the fins will hit 5-11 or 6-10 this year. with some good things to look forward to the following year (or at least a better idea on beck).

the bills should manage a 8-8 to 10-6 depending on the rest of the off season. and on our QB's development.


I just really can't understand Bill fans thinking. Bill fans are convinced they can win more the 9 games or be above 500. But their offense and Defense is not getting any better. They've done little this offseason to upgrade. They sign second tier players and Bill fans act like they sign players in their prime. The Bills have not had an Offense or Defense that ranked higher then 25th in the last 4 or 5 years.

Last year at this time the Bill fans were saying the same things we, are better, we had a better season then the Dolphins JP had a much better year in 06 so he is prime for a big season in 07. We just went out and spent millions on our Oline and we now have the best Oline in the divison, we're ready to compete for the division, we're a playoff team...blah, blah, blah.

Every year the Bills add some pretty weak players and those players never seem to produce and the Bills offense and defense always puts up the same numbers. But I know, I know, the Bills swept Miami the last two years....who frikin cares, that all you have to talk about. You don't address the fact that the Bills just can't beat the really good teams...even in your house, even when the other team throws 5 picks in one game. Your team still can't win that game.
Common guys what the hell are you people talking about? Seriously???

Ya know what? Who cares what I think about Miami and what they'll do, you people need to look at everything the Bills do and stop convincing yourselves you have a playoff team cause you had a better record and swept the fins. There is way more that the Bill need to do to be a good team then simply sweep the Dolphins and win 7 games a year.

[Ingtar33]

hey my man. did you see me predict playoffs?

Only if Trent Edwards rounds out and has a good to great sophmore year will that even be possible.

the last two years I've predicted the bills to turn a 7-9 season. guess what. they did.

i like a lot of the pieces the bills have in place, but there are still a lot of questionmarks. i will wait for the end of the off season before predicting a solid number of the year, but i think anything less then an 8-8 year for the bills this season will be a colossal disappointment.

if you don't like my analysis of the dolphins, then purhaps you're too emotionally invested in your team. take a step back, read what i wrote again, and ask yourself seriously, if you would find a 5-11 or 6-10 year, where the question of Beck's ability to play in the league is answered, as a bad year for the franchise.

Personally, i think any team that hit rock bottom would be happy with this type of turnaround.

especially, since if you guys do manage a 6-10 year i'd be willing to wager most of those 6 wins will come in the back half of the season.

giving you all hope for a much better future. and in the end, that's what the fins are going to play for this year. hope for a better future. this is a year for developing talent and learning how to win. If you guys can manage that. then 2009 will be a good year for dolphin's football.

[Ed]

Where have I said the Dolphins are better or worse then anyone. My point is, the Bills aren't as good as "Bill fans" think they are.
And the Dolphins are NEVER as good as you think they're going to be. Yet here you are, year after year saying the same things over and over trying to "educate" us Bills fans. If you have such a problem with Bills fans getting excited or being optimistic about their team, maybe you shouldn't spend so much time on a Bills message board.

[feelthepain]

hey my man. did you see me predict playoffs?

Only if Trent Edwards rounds out and has a good to great sophmore year will that even be possible.
You did say you think the Bills could anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 did you not? Is 10 and 6 not likely a playoff team? Common now...seriously.


the last two years I've predicted the bills to turn a 7-9 season. guess what. they did.
Good for you, but based on your teams statistics and who they beat and who they lost to. I don't think the Bills should have won 7 games in 07. Sorry, but nearly last on both sides of the ball it's pure luck you were 7-9. Tell the truth, if someone would have asked you before the 07 season, "you'll end the season with the 31st ranked defense and the 30th ranked offense, what will your record be?" Do you honestly think you would have said 7-9? No, you would have said 2-14 or 3-13, let's be honest.

This is why I really have a problem with Bill fans opinions of their team. It's like they hold on for dear life to the fact that they swept the Dolphins and had a better record then the Dolphins, but they never address the fact that both their units were god awful.



i like a lot of the pieces the bills have in place, but there are still a lot of questionmarks. i will wait for the end of the off season before predicting a solid number of the year, but i think anything less then an 8-8 year for the bills this season will be a colossal disappointment.
Good for you, I'm glad you like the pieces. I wouldn't want one single Bill player on my team. Not even Lynch, and I respect Lynch. But lets be honest he's a RB, good ones are a dime a dozen. How good could they be to have a 1-15 team put up better statistics on both sides of the ball? Think about it.


if you don't like my analysis of the dolphins, then purhaps you're too emotionally invested in your team. take a step back, read what i wrote again, and ask yourself seriously, if you would find a 5-11 or 6-10 year, where the question of Beck's ability to play in the league is answered, as a bad year for the franchise.
Dude, I could care less what you think about the Dolphins. Fact is, you're far more critical of the Dolphins than you are of the Bills. You see more probles with players of the 26th ranked defesne and 22nd ranked Offense then you see in the 31st ranked Defense and the 30th ranked offense. I'd say your views are a bit skewed. And common sense tells most people that a win/ loss record is a whole lot less telling the statistics are. Hate the Dolphins, you can think they suck. It doesn't bother me, what bothers me is how blind Bill fans are, you don't see Dolphin fans here this year telling everyone we'll be a 10-6 team with a team that was nearly last on both sides of the ball, but it doesn't stop Bill fans.


Personally, i think any team that hit rock bottom would be happy with this type of turnaround.
I guess that's one way to think about it. I think another way to think about it is Miami was better then 1-15 at least there talent was. I think Coaching was more a factor in the record then the players. I think Cam was avery good sign if he was just the OC, but he just wasn't ready to be a HC. It happens.


especially, since if you guys do manage a 6-10 year i'd be willing to wager most of those 6 wins will come in the back half of the season.
I think I'll just wait and see what Miami looks like in camp and see what i is they plan on doing, cause at this point we have no idea. We don't know if they're taking this season seriously or not. But I think Camp and what we do in the draft will give us an idea.


giving you all hope for a much better future.
Seriously? I've seen 10 times the success with the Dolphins that you've seen with the Bills. We don't need hope, we'll be fine. We will have to continue to lose for the next 15 years, to put a dent into the success this team has alsready had from day one.

[feelthepain]

And the Dolphins are NEVER as good as you think they're going to be. Yet here you are, year after year saying the same things over and over trying to "educate" us Bills fans. If you have such a problem with Bills fans getting excited or being optimistic about their team, maybe you shouldn't spend so much time on a Bills message board.

Or maybe you could just explain how your 31st ranked Defense and your 30th ranked offense will be a playoff team.

[Ingtar33]

hey man, you want to fight, that's fine. i don't get into flame wars.

you're reading "into" what i've written, like there is something to read into, or some hidden slant or bias. I write very specifically. I write what i mean and mean what i write.

when i say 10-6 i mean that is probably the best under any situation the bills can hope for.

I don't mean they might go 11-5, or 12-4. i didn't say they'd make the playoffs. i actually think that's highly unlikely.

In fact i said, "if we could cobble together an average offense." well our offense last year wasn't average, it was terrible, im asking for a big thing to happen. and i think the only way it does is if Edwards turns into our franchise quarterback (which im not sure he is anyway).

If our offense doesn't hit middle of the road status, we aren't making the playoffs, can i say that any plainer?

As to statistics...

"the only one that counts is wins and losses."

guess who said that?

Bill Parcels.


He's completely correct. Want a guess how many teams have won the superbowl with the no.1 ranked passing game in the league? 0

they mean squat.

did you know when the bills finished 3-13 in 2001, under gregg williams we had the 13th ranked offense (or at least that's what i recall, i might be wrong on that number)? That was with Alex Van Pelt and Rob Johnson, platooning for our team.

stats mean absolutely nothing.

Should the Bills have won 7 games last year? well, with the injuries we had, and how the season fell apart, absolutely not. we really overachieved. We also had a brutal schedule. At one point we were starting a WR at free safety against tony romo.

This year's schedule doesn't look quite so bad, and i doubt we'll be so snake bitten with injuries. we should hit 8 wins.

anything more will come down to how the offense rounds out.

[Ed]

Or maybe you could just explain how your 31st ranked Defense and your 30th ranked offense will be a playoff team.
Dude, do you realize that the Dolphins were dead last in rushing yards allowed per game last year? Your team gave up 153+ yards per game on the ground. That is absolutely horrible. That's why your overall defensive ranking isn't lower. Because teams didn't have to pass on you as much. They just ran the ball down your throats which means less total yards per game, but your defense still sucked balls.

You know what else is a pretty important statistic? More important then yards? Points given up per game. Miami was 30th at 27.3 pts/gm allowed. Buffalo was 18th at 22.1 pts/gm allowed.

You want another crucial statistic? Turnovers. Buffalo = +9. Miami = -7.

So get over your stupid overall yardage stats. They don't tell the whole story.

As for the Bills making the playoffs. I don't have a crystal ball. Maybe they'll make it, maybe they won't. But considering our youth and injuries from last year, and the fact that we haven't lost anyone significant and made a few good additions, I'd say we at least have a chance of improving. Will it be enough? We'll just have to see.

[BlackMetalNinja]

So let me see if I can wrap my head around this... The Bills were 7-9 but not as good as their record for some unknown reason... The Dolphins were 1-15 but somehow better than their record for yet another unknown reason.

Sounds like pretty solid logic to me :up:

[casdhf]

I think losing Culpepper has really ****ed FTP up. :(

[justasportsfan]

hey man, you want to fight, that's fine. i don't get into flame wars.

you're reading "into" what i've written, like there is something to read into, or some hidden slant or bias. I write very specifically. I write what i mean and mean what i write.

when i say 10-6 i mean that is probably the best under any situation the bills can hope for.

I don't mean they might go 11-5, or 12-4. i didn't say they'd make the playoffs. i actually think that's highly unlikely.

In fact i said, "if we could cobble together an average offense." well our offense last year wasn't average, it was terrible, im asking for a big thing to happen. and i think the only way it does is if Edwards turns into our franchise quarterback (which im not sure he is anyway).

If our offense doesn't hit middle of the road status, we aren't making the playoffs, can i say that any plainer?

As to statistics...

"the only one that counts is wins and losses."

guess who said that?

Bill Parcels.


He's completely correct. Want a guess how many teams have won the superbowl with the no.1 ranked passing game in the league? 0

they mean squat.

did you know when the bills finished 3-13 in 2001, under gregg williams we had the 13th ranked offense (or at least that's what i recall, i might be wrong on that number)? That was with Alex Van Pelt and Rob Johnson, platooning for our team.

stats mean absolutely nothing.

Should the Bills have won 7 games last year? well, with the injuries we had, and how the season fell apart, absolutely not. we really overachieved. We also had a brutal schedule. At one point we were starting a WR at free safety against tony romo.

This year's schedule doesn't look quite so bad, and i doubt we'll be so snake bitten with injuries. we should hit 8 wins.

anything more will come down to how the offense rounds out.


you're wasting your time. Any hint of the bills being better than the fins gets his panties in a bunch. His fellow finfans don't even agree with him.

[Spiderweb]

I disagree because Miami wasn't as bad as their record in 07. Miami has also made more then just a change in talnt and age. They have a coaching staff that's fresh off a really good team. Most of the new coaches we have are from a winning organization. They also take most of what they're doing from BP himself, he's the one who influences everyone else.

Miami could have been 7-9 last year, they lost 6 games by 3 points or less. We had better numbers on both sides of the Ball then the Bills, obviously we had our share of bad bounces. This year we've already learned our strength and conditioning programs are some of the toughest our guy's have ever been through. The leadership from top to bottom is unquestionably better and we've gotten younger from top to bottom. Miami will be better.

Parcells alone will make the Dolphins better. The merry-go-round joke at their HC position should be over. This alone should be worth 2-3 victories for them. Miami's biggest issue now is (to me) at QB and WR. Who will be throwing and to whom? Then I'd look at their D-line which their best player is likely to be traded, leaving them what? Holliday? Dolphins have a long way to go, but they've finally begun the right way, and that's getting serious, solid, good people on their staff, which I'm sure will be tweeked some more over the next year or two.