DraftBoy is Right Fine is not what we need at TE

[Bmax]

The Bills stated this off season stating they wanted to get a TE that could stretch the field. Well they didn't get one in the draft. They ended up with a guy who will help in special teams and catch short passes but will not help them with the seam routes deep in the middle of the field.

The Bills just don't get it when it comes to drafting TE's ...They never have


Tony Hunter-Bust
Lonnie Johnson-Bust
Rueben Gant-Bust

They hit with Mckellar and Rimersma and the trade with Meetzalars but lately they have just filled the position with average players at best.

Some teams have problems drafting QB's-.Bears........The Bills Tight Ends...

That's why Bills Fans better hope Robert Royal, Teyo Johson or Courtney Anderson
shows them something this season or we will be hoping to land Chase Coffman or Brandon Pettigrew next year....


Bmax

[Michael82]

When I saw Martin Rucker fall into the 4th, I really thought that he was the one they had their eyes on. Then ****ing Cleveland had to snatch him up right before us. :mad:

[Captain gameboy]

I am getting the feeling that there is a disconnect between what the Bills staff wants from the TE in their offense and what the fans, at least here, are thinking they want.
Maybe we are projecting something that just isn't there.

Regarding Fine, I went to the Orange Bowl and I have absolutely no recall about anything regarding him.
I also went to the Bills/Redskins game, and Cooley was all over us. The best player on the field that day.
If he's anything like Cooley, who someone compared him to, we'll be happy.

If not, we be back at the well next year.

[Carlton Bailey]

Seems like another Mark Campbell/Tim Euhus type. No thanks.

[mysticsoto]

I worry that the Bills actually feel fine with the FAs they brought in for TE. And that should not be the case. Teyo Johnson is athletic as hell, but he's done nothing nowhere. Anderson is big and will hopefully be a decent blocker, but he's done nothing spectacular either. If they are thinking that they have talent on the roster at the position, I'd be worried about how come that talent hasn't been able to show on other teams that they've been on. Perhaps they are confident in being able to bring out this talent out of them. I, however, am a great deal less confident.

[DMBcrew36]

Maybe the Bills will get that tight-end next offseason. They did a great job addressing other positions that they probably felt were more critical. They obviously can't afford to fix everything at once.

We'll see how Turk intends on using and incorporating our tight-ends once we get to see his offense in action this Fall.

[Dozerdog]

Who's to say Rucker or anyone else on the board is "That Guy" who will stretch the field? How many of those guys are in the NFL? A dozen? Two Dozen?

For years a lot of people on this board have had a hard on to get a dominating TE. I remember in the 2006 draft a lot of people on this board going nuts over drafting Vernon Davis. He went in the top 10.

Maybe he will blossom, but so far he's nothing special.

<TABLE class="w655px datatablecell" cellSpacing=0 _extended="true"><TBODY _extended="true"><TR class="datatablehead SFcolors" _extended="true"><TD colSpan=16 _extended="true">Career Stats more (http://www.nfl.com/players/vernondavis/careerstats?id=DAV785142) </TD></TR><TR class=datatabledatahead _extended="true"><TD rowSpan=2 _extended="true">Season</TD><TD rowSpan=2 _extended="true">Team</TD><TD colSpan=2 _extended="true"></TD><TD colSpan=5 _extended="true">Receiving</TD><TD colSpan=5 _extended="true">Rushing</TD><TD colSpan=2 _extended="true">Fumbles</TD></TR><TR class=datatabledatahead _extended="true"><TD _extended="true">G</TD><TD _extended="true">GS</TD><TD _extended="true">Rec</TD><TD _extended="true">Yds</TD><TD _extended="true">Avg</TD><TD _extended="true">Lng</TD><TD _extended="true">TD</TD><TD _extended="true">Att</TD><TD _extended="true">Yds</TD><TD _extended="true">Avg</TD><TD _extended="true">Lng</TD><TD _extended="true">TD</TD><TD _extended="true">FUM</TD><TD _extended="true">Lost</TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className=''" _extended="true"><TD _extended="true">2007 </TD><TD _extended="true">San Francisco 49ers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/profile?team=SF) </TD><TD _extended="true">14 </TD><TD _extended="true">14 </TD><TD _extended="true">52</TD><TD _extended="true">509</TD><TD _extended="true">9.8</TD><TD _extended="true">31</TD><TD _extended="true">4</TD><TD _extended="true">--</TD><TD _extended="true">--</TD><TD _extended="true">--</TD><TD _extended="true">--</TD><TD _extended="true">--</TD><TD _extended="true">1</TD><TD _extended="true">1</TD></TR><TR class=rowAlt onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className='rowAlt'" _extended="true"><TD _extended="true">2006 </TD><TD _extended="true">San Francisco 49ers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/profile?team=SF) </TD><TD _extended="true">10 </TD><TD _extended="true">8 </TD><TD _extended="true">20</TD><TD _extended="true">265</TD><TD _extended="true">13.3</TD><TD _extended="true">52T</TD><TD _extended="true">3</TD><TD _extended="true">2</TD><TD _extended="true">5</TD><TD _extended="true">2.5</TD><TD _extended="true">9</TD><TD _extended="true">0</TD><TD _extended="true">1</TD><TD _extended="true">1</TD></TR><TR class=datatabledatahead _extended="true"><TD class=bold style="TEXT-ALIGN: right" colSpan=4 _extended="true">TOTAL</TD><TD _extended="true">72</TD><TD _extended="true">774</TD><TD _extended="true">10.8</TD><TD _extended="true">52</TD><TD _extended="true">7</TD><TD _extended="true">2</TD><TD _extended="true">5</TD><TD _extended="true">2.5</TD><TD _extended="true">9</TD><TD _extended="true">0</TD><TD _extended="true">2</TD><TD _extended="true">2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Jan Reimers]

Could be, in our 3-step drop offense, that Fine is the smart, sure handed guy who we need to be the safety valve. We may have drafted him purposely for our system.

[Philagape]

I think the idea is to have Evans and Hardy (and Roscoe) stretch the field with the TEs, Lynch and Reed finding space underneath.

[madness]

Could be, in our 3-step drop offense, that Fine is the smart, sure handed guy who we need to be the safety valve. We may have drafted him purposely for our system.

Stop making sense and contradicting the draft guru's. :club:

[Captain gameboy]

Could be, in our 3-step drop offense, that Fine is the smart, sure handed guy who we need to be the safety valve. We may have drafted him purposely for our system.

That is exactly why I posted what I did in post #3.

If it's going to be a three step and get it out passing game, what we need is someone who can get off the line, get turned around and win the battle for the ball.

[HHURRICANE]

I think the idea is to have Evans and Hardy (and Roscoe) stretch the field with the TEs, Lynch and Reed finding space underneath.

This plan has been inplace for 3 years with little success. Maybe getting a real TE is the answer.

Why did we draft Schouman and Wright last year??

[mysticsoto]

Maybe the Bills will get that tight-end next offseason. They did a great job addressing other positions that they probably felt were more critical. They obviously can't afford to fix everything at once.

We'll see how Turk intends on using and incorporating our tight-ends once we get to see his offense in action this Fall.

The Bills had plenty of opportunity to grab great prospect TEs and chose not to each time. They had Brad Cottam in the 3rd and chose Ellis instead. They had Kellen Davis and Gary Barnridge available forever and didn't choose either and instead chose a TE that they probably could have gotten via UDFA. I don't think their scouts have good judgement over what makes a good TE - and that should be evident by the turnstile at TE we've had in more than a decade!!!

[Philagape]

This plan has been inplace for 3 years with little success. Maybe getting a real TE is the answer.

Or a real No. 2 WR, something the Bills haven't even tried to get the last two seasons.

[madness]

There are also going to be some decent options being released as well.

[justasportsfan]

They had Kellen Davis ...... I don't think their scouts have good judgement over what makes a good TE - and that should be evident by the turnstile at TE we've had in more than a decade!!!
Does this mean the other 31 teams don't have good scouts because they all passed up on Kellen Davis as well?

I have a feeling the bills will lean towards getting the rbs more involved than the TE which is why we have blocking TE's and drafted catching rb's last year.

[mysticsoto]

Does this mean the other 31 teams don't have good scouts because they all passed up on Kellen Davis as well?

I have a feeling the bills will lean towards getting the rbs more involved than the TE which is why we have blocking TE's and drafted catching rb's last year.

No, it could be that the other 31 teams already had decent TEs on their teams and don't need to use a pick on another. The ones that didn't had already drafted one.

Our TEs are blocking TEs? Royal was supposed to be a great blocking TE and seriously underperformed. Schouman, at 223 lbs, is hardly a blocking TE. Teyo Johnson is MOST DEFINITELY not a blocking TE. Anderson may become our best option there at 270 lbs.

As for Fine, this is what nfldraftcountdown says about his blocking:

Strengths:
Reliable hands...Versatile and he can line up all over the field...Nice ball skills and body control...Smart with great awareness...Knows how to get open...Tough and durable..Great motor...Hard worker..Lots of experience...Team leader and captain.

Weaknesses:
Average size and bulk...Marginal athleticism...Doesn't have great timed speed...Is not very quick and lacks a burst...Needs to get stronger...Sub par blocker...Won't do much after the catch...Can improve as a route runner...Not a fit for every team.

Notes:
He grayshirted in 2002 due to an injury and then redshirted in 2003..A three-year starter...Might be more of an H-Back...Also a terrific special teamer...Is not a great in-line blocker but could battle for a roster spot as a pass catching specialist...Has to find the right situation but his top-notch intangibles give him a fighting chance.

[DraftBoy]

Does this mean the other 31 teams don't have good scouts because they all passed up on Kellen Davis as well?

I have a feeling the bills will lean towards getting the rbs more involved than the TE which is why we have blocking TE's and drafted catching rb's last year.

31 teams were pretty wrong about Marques Colston...

[justasportsfan]

No, it could be that the other 31 teams already had decent TEs on their teams and don't need to use a pick on another. The ones that didn't had already drafted one.

.

The Colts drafted 2 TE's and passed on Davis.

[justasportsfan]

31 teams were pretty wrong about Marques Colston...
31 other teams were wrong about Brady including the Pats who waited until the later rds to grab him.It' happens all the time .what's your point?

[DraftBoy]

31 other teams were wrong about Brady? It' happens all the time .what's your point?

That is my point, just because a guy we passed on/went undrafted doesnt mean he was automatically not a better player.

[mysticsoto]

The Colts drafted 2 TE's and passed on Davis.

Their two TEs are for backup and Jacob Tamme is probably pretty good on his own also. They have Dallas Clark as their main starter. As for the other TE that they took, Santi, he's atleast a better blocker than Fine - he's played TE and FB. Kellen Davis will probably not block at all...

[justasportsfan]

That is my point, just because a guy we passed on/went undrafted doesnt mean he was automatically not a better player.
I agree, but my point is that if he was all that, why did teams pass on him.

[justasportsfan]

Their two TEs are for backup and Jacob Tamme is probably pretty good on his own also. They have Dallas Clark as their main starter. As for the other TE that they took, Santi, he's atleast a better blocker than Fine - he's played TE and FB. Kellen Davis will probably not block at all...
you're telling me that the colts passed up on a having a back up TE thats all that and a bag of chips? Don't think so. I doubt Polian is that stupid.

So if Davis won't block then you just justified our not taking him especially since we have a qb thats going through a developing process and will need all the protection he can get. Especially since he has durability issues.

[mysticsoto]

you're telling me that the colts passed up on a having a back up TE thats all that and a bag of chips? Don't think so. I doubt Polian is that stupid.

So if Davis won't block then you just justified our not taking him especially since we have a qb thats going throught a developing process and will need all the protection he can get. Especially since he has durability issues.

Who said he was all that and a bag of chips? I merely said I think he's better than Fine. That being said, the Bills were not drafting a TE to compete at TE - they were drafting a special teamer at the position of TE. I just don't agree with wasting a pick to do that for someone that could have been gotten in the 7th or even UDFA!!! There are plenty of candidates that fall and should be grabbed for STs at the end of the draft. You don't draft them in the 4th rd unless they are also great at the position you are drafting them for!!!

[DraftBoy]

I agree, but my point is that if he was all that, why did teams pass on him.

Why did teams pass on Brady or Colston, they had bad reports on them. Maybe its the same situation?

[justasportsfan]

Why did teams pass on Brady or Colston, they had bad reports on them. Maybe its the same situation?
In other words we're not sure yet whether we got it wrong or not. :up:

[DraftBoy]

In other words we're not sure yet whether we got it wrong or not. :up:

Not but we are sure that we have differing opinions on that.

[kernowboy]

All this tells me, is that unless some guys get cut, TE will be top of our wish list come the 2009 draft.

Looking at the current roster and considering our starting XI on both offense and defence, it is really the only place where we are significantly subpar.

Chase Coffman, Missouri (6ft6, 245lbs, 4.75) - a better player than Rucker (R1-2)
Andrew Quarless (Jr), Penn St (6ft5, 252lbs, 4.60) - if he stays off the beer? (R1-2)
Ryan Purvis, Boston College (6ft4, 260lbs, 4.76) .... Round 2?
Logan Paulsen, UCLA (6ft6, 250lbs, 4.72) .... Round 3?
Brandon Pettigrew, Oklahoma St (6f6, 260lbs, 4.70) .... Round 3?
Anthony Hill, NC State (6ft6, 265lbs, 4.78) .... Round 3 to UDFA depending on ACL recovery
Scott Sicko (Jr), New Hampshire. (6ft3, 242lbs, 4.65) ..... Round 4

All of these will be a huge upgrade over Royal, Anderson, Johnson and Fine. In fact so poor are we at TE, I'm inclined to follow the Colts route and draft two.

Even with their starting TEs injured, the Pats and Giants were able to field better players at TE in David Thomas and Kevin Boss than we have on our roster.

We must stop fishing in the bargain bucket at this position. Personally I'd take a flyer on both Quarless and Hill as they are likely to fall due to character/injury concerns

[mysticsoto]

All this tells me, is that unless some guys get cut, TE will be top of our wish list come the 2009 draft.

Looking at the current roster and considering our starting XI on both offense and defence, it is really the only place where we are significantly subpar.

Chase Coffman, Missouri (6ft6, 245lbs, 4.75) - a better player than Rucker (R1-2)
Andrew Quarless (Jr), Penn St (6ft5, 252lbs, 4.60) - if he stays off the beer? (R1-2)
Ryan Purvis, Boston College (6ft4, 260lbs, 4.76) .... Round 2?
Logan Paulsen, UCLA (6ft6, 250lbs, 4.72) .... Round 3?
Brandon Pettigrew, Oklahoma St (6f6, 260lbs, 4.70) .... Round 3?
Anthony Hill, NC State (6ft6, 265lbs, 4.78) .... Round 3 to UDFA depending on ACL recovery
Scott Sicko (Jr), New Hampshire. (6ft3, 242lbs, 4.65) ..... Round 4

All of these will be a huge upgrade over Royal, Anderson, Johnson and Fine. In fact so poor are we at TE, I'm inclined to follow the Colts route and draft two.

Even with their starting TEs injured, the Pats and Giants were able to field better players at TE in David Thomas and Kevin Boss than we have on our roster.

We must stop fishing in the bargain bucket at this position. Personally I'd take a flyer on both Quarless and Hill as they are likely to fall due to character/injury concerns

I think the problem is a) the FO not feeling we lack talent there, b) the scouts not being good judges of TE talent level and c) no emphasis being placed at the TE level position.

[kernowboy]

Shawn Nelson of Southern Miss. (6ft5, 240lbs) could be a great addition to

[FlyingDutchman]

I didnt need "draftboy" to tell me we should have drafted a better TE

[DraftBoy]

I didnt need "draftboy" to tell me we should have drafted a better TE

I did

[DrGraves]

Can we get shockey please? blah blah injury bad attitude, same your breath and time posting everyone but... his man can run over people, would bring some attitude and experience to the team and can go get the ball in the middle of the field. 3rd and 8? shockey, first down!

[The Answer]

I am getting the feeling that there is a disconnect between what the Bills staff wants from the TE in their offense and what the fans, at least here, are thinking they want.
Maybe we are projecting something that just isn't there.

Regarding Fine, I went to the Orange Bowl and I have absolutely no recall about anything regarding him.
I also went to the Bills/Redskins game, and Cooley was all over us. The best player on the field that day.
If he's anything like Cooley, who someone compared him to, we'll be happy.

If not, we be back at the well next year.

This is the only reasonable explanation - I have the feeling they are more concerned with 'blocking' at the TE position to help protect Edwards and help Lynch break big runs.

I'm also thinking (and hoping) that they plan on utilizing Lynch big time in the passing game, which would compensate for the lack of receptions at the TE position anyway.

Whatever the case - look for the front office to address the TE postion in a major way next offseason after another pathetic display from our current TE roster in 2008.

~The Answer

[Marvelous]

Anyone else find it odd that our resident draftnik didn't consider the combine into his evaluations of our selections?? I know the combine isn't worth that much. but it's not on the useless level of say the probowl... I'd be very interested in a video of our rooks @ the combine...Maybe that dude who took the time to make the youtubes of our selections on both networks.. Man that was awesome....

[Bmax]

Fine at best equals Mark Brammer......I feel most on this board are looking for the Keith Mckellar type who actually made the offense click...A guy who could block but also get down the field. Oh by the way he played Basketball... Good athletes make the best Tight Ends...



Bmax

[Ingtar33]

Fine has some odd skills, which make me suspect the Bills might be happy with their current tight ends, and might be thinking of moving Fine to FB.

I have no inside info on this. but this is coming from the eye of an offensive coach... and i would certainly try him at FB.