Players who need to put up or shut up:

[OpIv37]

Donte Whitner: With the emergence of McCargo and the additions of Stroud and Johnson, the middle of the DL should finally do its' job. Whitner's been mediocre at best and I keep hearing how it's the DL's fault for not getting pressure. Well, with an improved pass rush, Whitner damn well better prove he was worth the #8 pick this year.

Aaron Schobel: See above. He should see less double teams and the QB should be forced to his side if the new DT's hold up their end of the bargain. Time for him to prove that he's worth the paycheck.

Lee Evans: Hardy is the tall #2. You've got all the help you need- no more excuses.

Trent Edwards: This one is borderline because it will be his first full year of starting. But with an OL that's good at pass blocking, an excellent RB, two god receivers and presumably better play calling, his performance will be all on himself.

Perry Fewell: In the last 3 seasons, we have spent 3 first-round draft picks and an early second rounder on the defensive side of the ball (Whitner, McCargo, Poz, McKelvin). We added three FA's to the D this year- two who should start and one who will probably play a large role coming off the bench. There are no more excuses for this D to NOT do it's job.

Dick Jauron: This is his third full season and he's had basically 3 off-seasons to shape his team. Playoffs or bust.

[Confused]

throw in Josh Reed. Stevie Johnson wants his job.

Ashton Youboty is on notice.

April needs to prove he is a great coach not a coach with great players.

[OpIv37]

throw in Josh Reed. Stevie Johnson wants his job.

Ashton Youboty is on notice.

April needs to prove he is a great coach not a coach with great players.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Youboty. He definitely needs to show something FAST or Corner's going to have his job.

And add Dwayne Wright too- I think the coaching staff is disappointed with him.

[Don't Panic]

I'm sensing a negative vibe here, but I agree... accountability is key. I'll add:

Butler and Fowler, especially the latter. If both can be middle of the road NFL starters, we should be in good shape.

[chernobylwraiths]

When did McCargo emerge?

[OpIv37]

When did McCargo emerge?

well, he stopped completely sucking.

[OpIv37]

I'm sensing a negative vibe here, but I agree... accountability is key. I'll add:

Butler and Fowler, especially the latter. If both can be middle of the road NFL starters, we should be in good shape.

damn, I forgot about Fowler too. I honestly feel like he's already on the list to be replaced but the FO just couldn't get it done this year.

[Kerr]

I would include Kelsay in there as well.

[chernobylwraiths]

Posluzney
Edwards

I feel the most on the spot person is Perry Fewell. He needs to show that he can design a defense that can stop a team when it needs to be stopped. Plus, find a way to NOT get manhandled by NE at least once a year.

[Don't Panic]

I would include Kelsay in there as well.

Absolutely... and Denney. Thing is, if all of these guys just have decent seasons, we're in pretty good shape.

[Kerr]

Absolutely... and Denney. Thing is, if all of these guys just have decent seasons, we're in pretty good shape.

Agreed, but the fact that Kelsay is currently penciled in as the starter on the other side, makes a solid season from him much more demanding.
Hopefully this new kid Ellis wreaks havoc in the backfield.

[TigerJ]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Youboty. He definitely needs to show something FAST or Corner's going to have his job.

And add Dwayne Wright too- I think the coaching staff is disappointed with him.

In theory, it's up to everyone to put up or shut up every year, but I agree on Dwayne Wright. His rookie season was forgettable. In the few times he touched the ball he looked slow and not very creative.

[Kerr]

In theory, it's up to everyone to put up or shut up every year, but I agree on Dwayne Wright. His rookie season was forgettable. In the few times he touched the ball he looked slow and not very creative.

Wright has the size to covert to FB. I really don't know why they don't start tinkering with that and stop wasting their time with him at rb. They are stacked at rb after the addtion of omon.

[TedMock]

Youboty & Kelsay really need to play a lot better. I think we can add Wright to the list soon. He has not displayed the power we've been hoping for. I 100% disagree on Whitner not playing well. no pass break-ups, int's, etc. horrible way to measure him. STRONG safety in a defense that has required help in run support. he's been very impressive in the role the team is asking him to play.

[LABillsFan]

By the time this thread is completed, will there be anyone NOT on the list? I'm just saying.

[B-DON]

By the time this thread is completed, will there be anyone NOT on the list? I'm just saying.

Lynch is probably the only player who shouldnt get mentioned

[LABillsFan]

Lynch is probably the only player who shouldnt get mentioned

He needs to work on his speed and endurance. He got caught from behind too often last year and needs to see the holes better. I'm just saying.

[Dr. Pepper]

He needs to work on his speed and endurance. He got caught from behind too often last year and needs to see the holes better. I'm just saying.

obviously everyone has something to work on. with lynch though it's definitely not a "put up or shut up" situation.

[gr8slayer]

Edwards doesn't need to be on this list yet.

[Crisis]

Edwards doesn't need to be on this list yet.
agreed, edwards just needs to improve every week and not regress like losman last year.

robert royal needs to not be a useless piece of ****

[Marvelous]

Lee Evans: Hardy is the tall #2. You've got all the help you need- no more excuses.
Riiiiiight.... He has never seen the field so we dont know if he's gonna be a Anquan Boldin, or a Josh Reed as far as 2nd round WR's go..
---As far As Schobel & Kelsay & Whitner & Lee Evans goes it's IMO of course that it's not teh individual players fault if they tend to show lack o' production when it's team based... We haven't gotten penetration on the D -line enough for offenses to not double team Schobel or Kelsay etc... And Whitner i assume has the playbook that situates his positions as do all players...Josh Reed catches/caught most of his passes last season & is fun the watch after the catch..reed is a YAC machine when he breaks em...
-------Bottom line is i do want more prodcution from our elite players but im not prepared at this time to say it's "put up.shut up" etc....
-----If Stroud is what Sam Adams &/or PigPat was then our LB's are gonna be freaks without leashes & our DE's will see more 1 on 1's.. The Stats will come then....All starts on offenses respecting our NT's/DT's.....Man my problem is attachments! I/we((wife,brothers,mom,family etc)) get attached to our players and tend to find excuses like needles in hay stacks :lol:

[LABillsFan]

obviously everyone has something to work on. with lynch though it's definitely not a "put up or shut up" situation.

I was actually being sarcastic

[PECKERWOOD]

Donte Whitner: With the emergence of McCargo and the additions of Stroud and Johnson, the middle of the DL should finally do its' job. Whitner's been mediocre at best and I keep hearing how it's the DL's fault for not getting pressure. Well, with an improved pass rush, Whitner damn well better prove he was worth the #8 pick this year. Whitner has actually been pretty solid with the run support. Ofcourse he isn't going to get a crazy amount of interceptions when teams can rush on you for 10 yards a pop.

Aaron Schobel: See above. He should see less double teams and the QB should be forced to his side if the new DT's hold up their end of the bargain. Time for him to prove that he's worth the paycheck. See Donte Whitner. It's hard to get sacks when teams jam the ball down your throat 30x a game. There is definately room for improvement but Schobel isn't as bad as some are letting on.

Lee Evans: Hardy is the tall #2. You've got all the help you need- no more excuses. Poor QB play can stunt any WR's growth, see Randy Moss. If Lee had Tom Brady or Peyton Manning throwing the ball to him he would be a perennial pro-bowler.

Trent Edwards: This one is borderline because it will be his first full year of starting. But with an OL that's good at pass blocking, an excellent RB, two god receivers and presumably better play calling, his performance will be all on himself. I agree and same could be said for Losman if Trent goes down with an injury.

Perry Fewell: In the last 3 seasons, we have spent 3 first-round draft picks and an early second rounder on the defensive side of the ball (Whitner, McCargo, Poz, McKelvin). We added three FA's to the D this year- two who should start and one who will probably play a large role coming off the bench. There are no more excuses for this D to NOT do it's job. While I agree that we need to get more production out of our defense, our offense needs to keep our defense off of the field longer. Any defense will eventually break after your offense consistently goes 3 and out.

Dick Jauron: This is his third full season and he's had basically 3 off-seasons to shape his team. Playoffs or bust. I wouldn't say playoff or bust, I would be happy with a winning record.


Here is my 3 main ones:

John McCargo: He needs to play consistently like the 1st round pick that he is. There is no excuses, Stroud should take the majority of the double teams off of him, McCargo needs to make some plays for us.

Derrick Dockery: FACT: Marshawn averaged under 3.5 ypc on the left side of the OL. FACT: Derrick Dockery was signed to a 7yr/49 million dollar deal, PLAY LIKE IT.

Trent Edwards: Many people here have annointed him as the answer at QB - NOT SO FAST! 1.) Let's see him play a full season healthy. 2.) Let's see how he does with Losman breathing down his neck. I am far from being sold on Trent as the QB. He has alot of pieces around him to work with. A warrior in Lynch, a great WR in Evans and new a redzone threat in James Hardy. Don't forget that Josh Reed and Roscoe Parrish are both viable #3 options at his disposal. Trent will be the difference between a 10-6 season and a 6-10 season.

[Marvelous]

Great post bro..^
But D-Dock- did play very well. No "imo" needed. I saw it. You did too.. But the same things that you explained about Whitner & Schobel etc apply to all players..
-Most players don't flat out excell without the unit stepping up O +D.. I know all our underachievers from last year will be more productive this coming season just based on the return from injuries,fresh draft class, Stroud, Mitchell & new O-coord.... wooot!

[Night Train]

Kyle Williams.

[kernowboy]

For $49m over 7years, Dockery needs to be better than playing very well - he needs to be fantastic

[Jan Reimers]

I'm sensing a negative vibe here, but I agree... accountability is key. I'll add:

Butler and Fowler, especially the latter. If both can be middle of the road NFL starters, we should be in good shape.
Butler is progressing at RG almost as fast as Peters did at LT. With his intelligence and work ethic, he will only get better.

[jamze132]

Well Op, I think you about covered the whole team!

I can't say I disagree with any of them.

I would have to say that Youboty and Evans are on notice... (and Jauron)

[Captain gameboy]

One caveat I would add, but its just a theory.

With all the injuries to our secondary last year, it is my view that it is impossible to accurately judge the year that Whitner had.
I expect that he was the glue that barely held that unit together, and was called upon to do far, far more than normal for his position.
I am excited to see how this unit, and he, will perform with even normal talent back from IR.

[mybills]

Good post, gameboy. The injuries were a major factor last year, and we still came away 7-9. I can't imagine anything but "better" out of this whole team.

[trapezeus]

i guess it is fair to say the team as a whole is on a "put up or shut up" notice. We all agree that with the last 2-3 drafts and the playing time that our 2nd string and 3rd stringers got, plus the additions of healthy new players, this team needs the playoffs.

Everyone is on notice. Let's go buffalo.

[Spiderweb]

Donte Whitner: With the emergence of McCargo and the additions of Stroud and Johnson, the middle of the DL should finally do its' job. Whitner's been mediocre at best and I keep hearing how it's the DL's fault for not getting pressure. Well, with an improved pass rush, Whitner damn well better prove he was worth the #8 pick this year.

Aaron Schobel: See above. He should see less double teams and the QB should be forced to his side if the new DT's hold up their end of the bargain. Time for him to prove that he's worth the paycheck.

Lee Evans: Hardy is the tall #2. You've got all the help you need- no more excuses.

Trent Edwards: This one is borderline because it will be his first full year of starting. But with an OL that's good at pass blocking, an excellent RB, two god receivers and presumably better play calling, his performance will be all on himself.

Perry Fewell: In the last 3 seasons, we have spent 3 first-round draft picks and an early second rounder on the defensive side of the ball (Whitner, McCargo, Poz, McKelvin). We added three FA's to the D this year- two who should start and one who will probably play a large role coming off the bench. There are no more excuses for this D to NOT do it's job.

Dick Jauron: This is his third full season and he's had basically 3 off-seasons to shape his team. Playoffs or bust.

Whitner - check....

Schobel - check....

Evans - ??? He's shown where his game is and it will as much of Edwards job to utilize it. Mixed....

Edwards - Not borderline at all, it's on him to play at a higher level (and learn to cope with the elements a "hell of a lot" better). Mostly check....

Coaches - Check....

[Dr. Pepper]

I was actually being sarcastic

my bad :cheers:

[Marvelous]

D-Dock got 49 mill & it's just gonna be that way for us to get top tier FA's because we're such a small market.. We overpaid for him & if we would have paid based on his skills then i'd say he performed at that level...Lynch & Fred Jackson(late stretch) sure looked great last season & imo the O-line assisted w/ that...
-------Anyone agree with that theory?^

Did these injuries happen in our 1st season without our awesome strength & conditioning coach? Maybe it was our 2nd season without him..We're any of those injuries due to lack of conditioning by our players? curious

[Marvelous]

oops DP..

[raphael120]

When your team is 30th in offense and 31rst in defense, I think it's safe to say your whole damn team including all the coaches better step it up.

[Marvelous]

Is our new O-coord gonna make the cut? Seems like we go through O-coords like hotcakes...

[OpIv37]

One caveat I would add, but its just a theory.

With all the injuries to our secondary last year, it is my view that it is impossible to accurately judge the year that Whitner had.
I expect that he was the glue that barely held that unit together, and was called upon to do far, far more than normal for his position.
I am excited to see how this unit, and he, will perform with even normal talent back from IR.

what you and BuffaloFever said prove my point exactly. These players haven't performed, but there have been a million excuses why they haven't performed. So far, at least on paper, most or all of those excuses are gone. It's up to these guys as individuals to come out and show us what they have.

[FlyingDutchman]

Robert Royal has to show me something. Gaines fat ass came in looked just as good if not better

[patmoran2006]

Donte Whitner: With the emergence of McCargo and the additions of Stroud and Johnson, the middle of the DL should finally do its' job. Whitner's been mediocre at best and I keep hearing how it's the DL's fault for not getting pressure. Well, with an improved pass rush, Whitner damn well better prove he was worth the #8 pick this year.
Absolutely spot on. 8th pick of the draft. Was drafted to be an impact player. He's been anything but. It's his third year.. Time to pick it up, or you will be labeled a bust. Dime a dozen safeties shouldnt be the 8th pick in the draft, start playing like an upper-class safety and make plays.

Aaron Schobel: See above. He should see less double teams and the QB should be forced to his side if the new DT's hold up their end of the bargain. Time for him to prove that he's worth the paycheck.
Not sure he has something to prove.. He earned his big payday. I can't see him possibly being as uneventful as he was last year.

Lee Evans: Hardy is the tall #2. You've got all the help you need- no more excuses.
At the end of the day, it comes down to QB play.

Trent Edwards: This one is borderline because it will be his first full year of starting. But with an OL that's good at pass blocking, an excellent RB, two god receivers and presumably better play calling, his performance will be all on himself.
He should be improved over last year, but its unfair to expect Joe Montana in year two.. He was thrusted into a starting role, probably before he was ready, becuase Losman is THAT bad.

Perry Fewell: In the last 3 seasons, we have spent 3 first-round draft picks and an early second rounder on the defensive side of the ball (Whitner, McCargo, Poz, McKelvin). We added three FA's to the D this year- two who should start and one who will probably play a large role coming off the bench. There are no more excuses for this D to NOT do it's job.
Agreed.. If our defense isn't radically improved, he's got to go.

Dick Jauron: This is his third full season and he's had basically 3 off-seasons to shape his team. Playoffs or bust.
Agreed. But he aint getting fired no matter what.. He's a Wilson puppet.. It would take a 2-14 season and then only maybe would Wilson can him this year.

[yordad]

First, you named everyone.

Second, I agreed.

I think we the fans deserve a playoffs year. We have a decent squad. We Been Gone Way To Long. We were close, and now we're better, and healthy.

So.... basically, they all need to put up. Seriously we waited long enough. No excuses!!

I might as well turn a stone though..... we are still like 30 million under cash to cap. That peeves me.

:boost:

[cocamide]

The midget trainer needs to prove to me that he's not just here to sell tickets. We had a lot of guys on injured reserve last year, and I think it was mainly due to his inability to wrap up the players' injuries if they were above the torso. We invested a lot of money in high chairs and step ladders and it's time for those investments to start paying off.

[yordad]

That was my attempt at tough love. How did I do?

But really, several players emerged last year. We found quality depth. We have starters and more quality depth returning from injury. We found good character guys. We found leadership; which I will add, Whitner is really beginning to step forward. We drafted top notch guys. Poz will be returning.

We've gained experience. We signed some experienced guys. We have a ring on our team. We are hungry. Our coaches have gained more familiarity, more experience, and more accountability.


We got rid of Fairchild, and we got a softer schedule.


How could we not be better? :bandwagon

[OpIv37]

That was my attempt at tough love. How did I do?

But really, several players emerged last year. We found quality depth. We have starters and more quality depth returning from injury. We found good character guys. We found leadership; which I will add, Whitner is really beginning to step forward. We drafted top notch guys. Poz will be returning.

We've gained experience. We signed some experienced guys. We have a ring on our team. We are hungry. Our coaches have gained more familiarity, more experience, and more accountability.


We got rid of Fairchild, and we got a softer schedule.


How could we not be better?

I think we'll be better but we were so bad last year that better doesn't necessarily translate to "good enough".

[Captain gameboy]

what you and BuffaloFever said prove my point exactly. These players haven't performed, but there have been a million excuses why they haven't performed. So far, at least on paper, most or all of those excuses are gone. It's up to these guys as individuals to come out and show us what they have.

And you prove my theory just as exactly.

This board allows people with an interest bordering somewhere on the continuum of mild to obsessive about this football team.

There is no freakin' way that anybody here can judge with any hope of remote accuracy what really goes on.

This is a perfect example.

We lost the equivalent of three years of players in the secondary last year, with a below average D line to support it.

I suspect, though I don't know, that Whitner was called upon to do whatever it took to get thugs off the street to stop high powered offenses.

If you call that an excuse, that is your business.

I call our pass D last year a miracle.

I give Whitner a pass and I look for great things from him.

I don't think you, I, or anybody else has any idea what really went on last year trying to put a competitive pass D on the filed, given a ridiculous amount of injuries.

[OpIv37]

And you prove my theory just as exactly.

This board allows people with an interest bordering somewhere on the continuum of mild to obsessive about this football team.

There is no freakin' way that anybody here can judge with any hope of remote accuracy what really goes on.

This is a perfect example.

We lost the equivalent of three years of players in the secondary last year, with a below average D line to support it.

I suspect, though I don't know, that Whitner was called upon to do whatever it took to get thugs off the street to stop high powered offenses.

If you call that an excuse, that is your business.

I call our pass D last year a miracle.

I give Whitner a pass and I look for great things from him.

I don't think you, I, or anybody else has any idea what really went on last year trying to put a competitive pass D on the filed, given a ridiculous amount of injuries.

It's absolutely an excuse. I'm really sick of the "he's not good because he doesn't have a good team around him." Well, anyone can play well with a bunch of good players around them. SOMEONE needs to step up and do their part regardless of how the rest of the team performs, and no one does it. And a lot of people on this message board won't hold any players accountable. People have players that they like, or they want to justify questionable FO decisions, so they blame everyone for a lack of performance by a player EXCEPT that player.

Which brings me to another point: start a thread knocking a player- ANY player- and someone will defend him (usually with a bunch of excuses that blame everyone except that player). So, if no one on this team sucks and no one is underperforming, why were we 7-9, ranked 30th on O and 31st on D?

[SeatownBillsFan21]

The midget trainer needs to prove to me that he's not just here to sell tickets. We had a lot of guys on injured reserve last year, and I think it was mainly due to his inability to wrap up the players' injuries if they were above the torso. We invested a lot of money in high chairs and step ladders and it's time for those investments to start paying off.
awsome

[PECKERWOOD]

We should cut all the players listed in this thread, that will surely help us win more games. What exactly is the point in starting a thread to ***** about every player on the team? You might as well just root for New England or something. I find it hilarious how people here will call out the best players on our team while all the while they believe they are being objective! Let's get rid of Whitner, Schobel and Evans. YOU'RE NOT BEING OBJECTIVE OR REALISTIC, YOU'RE BEING ******ED!

[OpIv37]

We should cut all the players listed in this thread, that will surely help us win more games. What exactly is the point in starting a thread to ***** about every player on the team? You might as well just root for New England or something. I find it hilarious how people here will call out the best players on our team while all the while they believe they are being objective! Let's get rid of Whitner, Schobel and Evans. YOU'RE NOT BEING OBJECTIVE OR REALISTIC, YOU'RE BEING ******ED!

I hope you realize the complete lack of logic in your post. If I rooted for New England, why would I CARE if guys on the Bills aren't performing? I care because I want to team to win, and the reason they're not winning is mainly because the guys I listed aren't performing.

Schobel went from 14.5 sacks in 06 to 6.5 sacks in 07. Whitner's stat line is paltry and he's only had one big hit in two years. Lee Evans' performance dropped dramatically from 06 to 07. Those are facts- objective, indisputable facts. You call these guys the best players on our team- what evidence do you have to prove it? Their stats and their recent performance don't justify the adjective "best" by any means. Did you ever consider the possibility that the reason we were 7-9 is because the best players on our team simply aren't good enough? Or at least aren't playing up to potential?

And I don't know where you came up with this "cut" crap because I certainly never said that. Trade, replace, demote, restructure- those are other options for dealing with underperforming players.

[Captain gameboy]

It's absolutely an excuse. I'm really sick of the "he's not good because he doesn't have a good team around him." Well, anyone can play well with a bunch of good players around them. SOMEONE needs to step up and do their part regardless of how the rest of the team performs, and no one does it. And a lot of people on this message board won't hold any players accountable. People have players that they like, or they want to justify questionable FO decisions, so they blame everyone for a lack of performance by a player EXCEPT that player.

Which brings me to another point: start a thread knocking a player- ANY player- and someone will defend him (usually with a bunch of excuses that blame everyone except that player). So, if no one on this team sucks and no one is underperforming, why were we 7-9, ranked 30th on O and 31st on D?

Tell you what Op.

You go out there tomorrow and make I-95 up your way run like the East Aurora Expressway.

You can't.
Whitner couldn't.

Doesn't make you a goof or him anything other than what he is.

I expect he is quite good, and I postulate that he was the single factor that prevented last year from being a Dolphin-esque total disaster.

[OpIv37]

Tell you what Op.

You go out there tomorrow and make I-95 up your way run like the East Aurora Expressway.

You can't.
Whitner couldn't.

Doesn't make you a goof or him anything other than what he is.

I expect he is quite good, and I postulate that he was the single factor that prevented last year from being a Dolphin-esque total disaster.

and that's exactly what I'm saying- if you're right, then this is the year he finally emerges as the star he's supposed to be. If he doesn't, then the FO made a bad pick. The traffic's going to be going with him this year, instead of against him.

[PECKERWOOD]

I hope you realize the complete lack of logic in this post. If I rooted for New England, why would I CARE if guys on the Bills aren't performing? I care because I want to team to win, and the reason they're not winning is mainly because the guys I listed aren't performing.

Schobel went from 14.5 sacks in 06 to 6.5 sacks in 07. Whitner's stat line is paltry and he's only had one big hit in two years. Lee Evans' performance dropped dramatically from 06 to 07. Those are facts- objective, indisputable facts. You call these guys the best players on our team- what evidence do you have to prove it? Their stats and their recent performance don't justify the adjective "best" by any means. Did you ever consider the possibility that the reason we were 7-9 is because the best players on our team simply aren't good enough? Or at least aren't playing up to potential?

And I don't know where you came up with this "cut" crap because I certainly never said that. Trade, replace, demote, restructure- those are other options for dealing with underperforming players.


:poop:


I hope you realize the complete lack of logic in this post. If I rooted for New England, why would I CARE if guys on the Bills aren't performing? I care because I want to team to win, and the reason they're not winning is mainly because the guys I listed aren't performing.


:poop:

Schobel went from 14.5 sacks in 06 to 6.5 sacks in 07. Whitner's stat line is paltry and he's only had one big hit in two years. Lee Evans' performance dropped dramatically from 06 to 07. Those are facts- objective, indisputable facts. You call these guys the best players on our team- what evidence do you have to prove it? Their stats and their recent performance don't justify the adjective "best" by any means. Did you ever consider the possibility that the reason we were 7-9 is because the best players on our team simply aren't good enough? Or at least aren't playing up to potential?

All you got is stats, Op, it's so foolish to base your judgements off of statistics alone. Ofcourse Evan's drop off in production has nothing to do with inconsistencies at QB! Where are the stats for that? It's amazing how everybody thought Moss was washed up but when he goes to New England he breaks the recieving TD record and catches 98 balls!! By your logic Moss just "wasn't good enough" in Oakland. IDEA: Maybe Oakland wasn't good enough for Moss! Whitner had 90 tackles last year, for a safety that's ****ing ridiculous! ( What's funny is that our starting MLB for the majority of the year [John DiGiorgio] only had 113 tackles. Hrmm, how can Whitner intercept the ball when teams don't throw at you? Is there a statistic for that anywhere, Op? It's funny though, ofcourse I'm making excuses for our players by being objective.. When the opposing teams quarterback drops back to pass less often it almost certainly means LESS sacks and LESS interceptions. It's so boneheaded to blame our best players for last year's results, I thought you were supposed to blame the players that didn't perform. OFCOURSE the problem was not having Larry Tripplett or Kyle Williams as our starting DT's, THAT COULDN'T BE IT! No, ofcourse having DiGiorgio starting at LB did not hurt us! You're completey right, Op, the only way we can improve is by ousting our best players. :crazy: Nevermind adding more talent to the team to support them, cut our best players and keep the losers that have done squat around. We might as well let Crowell walk next year and replace him with DiGiorgio. Bye, bye, Schobel! The big dog Ellis is moving in. Heck, let's let Evans walk and Josh Reed can be our #1 WR! Holy crap, this plan is genius. Way to go, OP, thank God you called these guys out.

:poop:


And I don't know where you came up with this "cut" crap because I certainly never said that. Trade, replace, demote, restructure- those are other options for dealing with underperforming players.

YOU CAN'T DEMOTE A PLAYER WHEN YOU HAVE NOBODY TO TAKE THEIR SPOT!! GOOD LUCK GETTING THEM TO RESTRUCTURE! :crazy:


P.S. - I hate the offseason, people will find ANYTHING to ***** about. This thread is so ridiculous.

[Philagape]

P.S. - I hate the offseason, people will find ANYTHING to ***** about. This thread is so ridiculous.

Then don't open it. Nobody held a gun to your head.

[PECKERWOOD]

Then don't open it. Nobody held a gun to your head.

Then there would be no arguments on this website and no arguments = NO FUN!

[OpIv37]

:poop:


:poop:


All you got is stats, Op, it's so foolish to base your judgements off of statistics alone. Ofcourse Evan's drop off in production has nothing to do with inconsistencies at QB! Where are the stats for that? It's amazing how everybody thought Moss was washed up but when he goes to New England he breaks the recieving TD record and catches 98 balls!! By your logic Moss just "wasn't good enough" in Oakland. IDEA: Maybe Oakland wasn't good enough for Moss! Whitner had 90 tackles last year, for a safety that's ****ing ridiculous! ( What's funny is that our starting MLB for the majority of the year [John DiGiorgio] only had 113 tackles. Hrmm, how can Whitner intercept the ball when teams don't throw at you? Is there a statistic for that anywhere, Op? It's funny though, ofcourse I'm making excuses for our players by being objective.. When the opposing teams quarterback drops back to pass less often it almost certainly means LESS sacks and LESS interceptions. It's so boneheaded to blame our best players for last year's results, I thought you were supposed to blame the players that didn't perform. OFCOURSE the problem was not having Larry Tripplett or Kyle Williams as our starting DT's, THAT COULDN'T BE IT! No, ofcourse having DiGiorgio starting at LB did not hurt us! You're completey right, Op, the only way we can improve is by ousting our best players. :crazy: Nevermind adding more talent to the team to support them, cut our best players and keep the losers that have done squat around. We might as well let Crowell walk next year and replace him with DiGiorgio. Bye, bye, Schobel! The big dog Ellis is moving in. Heck, let's let Evans walk and Josh Reed can be our #1 WR! Holy crap, this plan is genius. Way to go, OP, thank God you called these guys out.

:poop:


YOU CAN'T DEMOTE A PLAYER WHEN YOU HAVE NOBODY TO TAKE THEIR SPOT!! GOOD LUCK GETTING THEM TO RESTRUCTURE! :crazy:


P.S. - I hate the offseason, people will find ANYTHING to ***** about. This thread is so ridiculous.

You are a hypocrite. You say I don't have objective measures, then when I give you objective measures, you say I base my arguments off stats alone. My arguments are based both off objective stats and what I saw on the field with my own eyes.

You are supposed to blame the players who don't perform. 6.5 sacks for Schobel ISN'T performing. Whitner missing McGahee in the hole for a 46 yard TD run and watching Tom Brady whiz touchdown passes by his head ISN'T performing.

You sit there and say "well Evans didn't perform because of inconsistencies at QB"- THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS ****ING THREAD. Those excuses are going away- Edwards has a year on his belt, we have better DT's, Whitner has help in the secondary- all those excuses are gone, at least on paper. If these guys continue to perform at the level they performed at in '07, CLEARLY it's their own fault and not the fault of the players around them.

And I hope you realize the other hypocrisy in your post- you call these guys the "best players on our team" then you go on to say they didn't play well because of everyone around them. If they're really as good as you make them out to be, they'd be able to perform regardless of the situation. You get on my case for calling these guys out, but the REASON WE'RE LOSING IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PERFORMING. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand. If they're the best players on our team, then they should be held accountable for their performance.

And you're right about one thing- we can't cut or replace everyone. So what do we do when the best players on our team aren't good enough? Exactly what we've done for the last decade: keep losing.

[Marvelous]

Schobel DID have no less than 5 forced fumbles last season. 5 is huge..
-He did drop off his sack totals from 14.5 the year before but the D unit was dessimated!!
----Here's what i see happening the 1st half of next season..
--Schobel---KyleWilliams--Stroud---kelsay--
I see the 2nd half as mostly the same except Hopefully McCargo steps it up. Which i think he will because he showed flashes of we had hoped with the late 1st rounder... I love the 4 DT/NT rotation.. + we have J.Jefferson who must really like us because he coming back for deep depth.. Deep depth, i like that :rotf:

---Schobel will be a beast this year. We all know he's fully capable. Frakkin-A our LB's are gonna be awesome with the stellar D-line freeing them up... Remember PigPat & Teddi Washington making Sam Cowart look like The Alabama Biscuit!! Stroud,Williams,McCargo,Spenc Johnson are gonna be such a improvement for us.. Poz is gonna be a BEAST And i think Crowell will be Hawaii bound. haha i suck at spelling Hawaii :lmoa:

---My Crowell boosting/excitement has motivated me to start a prediction thread abouit who will shine this year..

[OpIv37]

and btw, the best players on our team NOT performing isn't "finding something to ***** about"- it's a legitimate gripe by anyone who wants to see this team WIN. I don't know why people like you insist on defending players when the team is losing. There's a reason why this team is losing and some of us would rather try to figure it out than make a bunch of excuses for the "best players".

[Philagape]

I hate the offseason, people will find ANYTHING to ***** about.


Then there would be no arguments on this website and no arguments = NO FUN!

Make up your mind

[Philagape]

If they're the best players on our team, then they should be held accountable for their performance.

This is a point I've been making in the QB debates. The better a player is, the less help he should need. Good players help others play well; if a player needs everyone else to make him play well, then he's worthless.

With great power comes great responsibility.

[PECKERWOOD]

You are a hypocrite. You say I don't have objective measures, then when I give you objective measures, you say I base my arguments off stats alone. My arguments are based both off objective stats and what I saw on the field with my own eyes.

You are supposed to blame the players who don't perform. 6.5 sacks for Schobel ISN'T performing. Whitner missing McGahee in the hole for a 46 yard TD run and watching Tom Brady whiz touchdown passes by his head ISN'T performing.

You sit there and say "well Evans didn't perform because of inconsistencies at QB"- THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS ****ING THREAD. Those excuses are going away- Edwards has a year on his belt, we have better DT's, Whitner has help in the secondary- all those excuses are gone, at least on paper. If these guys continue to perform at the level they performed at in '07, CLEARLY it's their own fault and not the fault of the players around them.

And I hope you realize the other hypocrisy in your post- you call these guys the "best players on our team" then you go on to say they didn't play well because of everyone around them. If they're really as good as you make them out to be, they'd be able to perform regardless of the situation. You get on my case for calling these guys out, but the REASON WE'RE LOSING IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PERFORMING. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand. If they're the best players on our team, then they should be held accountable for their performance.

And you're right about one thing- we can't cut or replace everyone. So what do we do when the best players on our team aren't good enough? Exactly what we've done for the last decade: keep losing.


And I hope you realize the other hypocrisy in your post- you call these guys the "best players on our team" then you go on to say they didn't play well because of everyone around them. If they're really as good as you make them out to be, they'd be able to perform regardless of the situation.

Do I have to bang the Randy Moss example into your head with a hammer? When will you get it? Football isn't like basketball, IT'S A TEAM SPORT. Randy Moss is HANDS DOWN a top 5 OVERALL player in the NFL and NOT EVEN MOSS COULD GET IT DONE WITH POOR TALENT AROUND HIM IN OAKLAND. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!!!!! Why are you so ****ing incapable of understanding this logic? Do you expect Evans to put up crazy statistics with Losman and Edwards as the ****ing QB? Give me a break. Evans should have never been on your list or anybody elses for that matter.



You are supposed to blame the players who don't perform. 6.5 sacks for Schobel ISN'T performing. Whitner missing McGahee in the hole for a 46 yard TD run and watching Tom Brady whiz touchdown passes by his head ISN'T performing.

Ofcourse you don't talk about the good plays, like ***** smacking a top 5 WR in Ocho Cinco AND Houshmandzadeh. With you, you can only talk about Tom Brady dominating us well, NEWS FLASH: New England was 1 win away from a perfect season! THEY DID THAT TO EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!


And you're right about one thing- we can't cut or replace everyone. So what do we do when the best players on our team aren't good enough? Exactly what we've done for the last decade: keep losing.

:lmao:

OR

You could trade for a stud DT in Marcus Stroud.

You could sign a solid LB in Kiwaka Mitchell.

You could draft the top college CB in the country.

You could bring in a competent complimentary WR next to Lee Evans in James Hardy.

OR

You could start your very own thread in the form of the crucible.

AND you could keep on losing! :up:

The bottom line is simple.. Slightly above average QB play = PLAYOFFS. I guarantee you that if Evans, Whitner and Schobel weren't on our roster, we would be lucky to get 4 wins.

[PECKERWOOD]

Make up your mind

www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com)

You should look up sarcasm, GL. :up:

[Philagape]

www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com)

You should look up sarcasm, GL. :up:

For which post?

[PECKERWOOD]

For which post?

drum roll

I'm glad the dictionary helped! :up:

[Philagape]

drum roll

I'm glad the dictionary helped! :up:

I need it, because your communication skills suck

[OpIv37]

Do I have to bang the Randy Moss example into your head with a hammer? When will you get it? Football isn't like basketball, IT'S A TEAM SPORT. Randy Moss is HANDS DOWN a top 5 OVERALL player in the NFL and NOT EVEN MOSS COULD GET IT DONE WITH POOR TALENT AROUND HIM IN OAKLAND. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!!!!! Why are you so ****ing incapable of understanding this logic? Do you expect Evans to put up crazy statistics with Losman and Edwards as the ****ing QB? Give me a break. Evans should have never been on your list or anybody elses for that matter.




Ofcourse you don't talk about the good plays, like ***** smacking a top 5 WR in Ocho Cinco AND Houshmandzadeh. With you, you can only talk about Tom Brady dominating us well, NEWS FLASH: New England was 1 win away from a perfect season! THEY DID THAT TO EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!



:lmao:

OR

You could trade for a stud DT in Marcus Stroud.

You could sign a solid LB in Kiwaka Mitchell.

You could draft the top college CB in the country.

You could bring in a competent complimentary WR next to Lee Evans in James Hardy.

OR

You could start your very own thread in the form of the crucible.

AND you could keep on losing! :up:

The bottom line is simple.. Slightly above average QB play = PLAYOFFS. I guarantee you that if Evans, Whitner and Schobel weren't on our roster, we would be lucky to get 4 wins.


I don't care if NE did it to everyone- that's no excuse for them doing it to us. Our players have a job to do and they didn't do it. And I DID mention the play against 85- I said Whitner had one big hit in 2 years. That was it. And who cares about the good plays when all they got us was 7-9. They still weren't good enough. Any player can come out and have a good play here and there- that doesn't prove anything.

And once again- you're proving my point. With all those additions, all the "it was the team" excuses you have are GONE. The bottom line is that with Evans, Whitner and Schobel we win 7 games a season if we're lucky. If these guys don't show up this year, they're not worth a damn.

[PECKERWOOD]

I need it, because your communication skills suck

Couldn't be worst than your manners.

[Philagape]

Couldn't be worst than your manners.

Yeah, I have a ways to go before I attain the civility of "GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!!!!! Why are you so ****ing incapable of understanding this logic?" or "Do I have to bang the Randy Moss example into your head with a hammer?"
Way to set the bar.

[PECKERWOOD]

Yeah, I have a ways to go before I attain the civility of "GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!!!!! Why are you so ****ing incapable of understanding this logic?" or "Do I have to bang the Randy Moss example into your head with a hammer?"
Way to set the bar.

Ah yes, because we all know that two wrongs make a right. Btw, I didn't realize that your name was Op.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The chance at the playoffs rests on the shoulders of Trent Edwards. He doesn't have to be amazing but he does have to be solid. I think he will do it but if not we could be in major trouble.

[yordad]

Hey man, the Bills aren't perfect. And, sometimes you can light a fire under someone. I think OpIv was just trying a little tough love.

[GarnOFreak]

By the time this thread is completed, will there be anyone NOT on the list? I'm just saying.

Yeah, Brian Moorman is prolly pretty safe I think ;)

[Jan Reimers]

Yeah, Brian Moorman is prolly pretty safe I think ;)
Actually, he did not have a great season in 2007. Put him on the list.

[acehole]

damn, I forgot about Fowler too. I honestly feel like he's already on the list to be replaced but the FO just couldn't get it done this year.

Lets throw in Juron....he had one winning season (not with us)with a great team and a weak schedule.

[acehole]

The chance at the playoffs rests on the shoulders of Trent Edwards. He doesn't have to be amazing but he does have to be solid. I think he will do it but if not we could be in major trouble.

Well it is no secret I am underwhelmed by Trend.We finally have more pieces in place then we have had in sometime...I dont want to squander them while he learns how to find an endzone or workout until he can throw over 10 yards or gets picked off...or injured. I think he has to be a bit more then solid.To bad we cant get B Farve out of Retirement.

[Mitchell55]

Donte Whitner: With the emergence of McCargo and the additions of Stroud and Johnson, the middle of the DL should finally do its' job. Whitner's been mediocre at best and I keep hearing how it's the DL's fault for not getting pressure. Well, with an improved pass rush, Whitner damn well better prove he was worth the #8 pick this year.

Aaron Schobel: See above. He should see less double teams and the QB should be forced to his side if the new DT's hold up their end of the bargain. Time for him to prove that he's worth the paycheck.

Lee Evans: Hardy is the tall #2. You've got all the help you need- no more excuses.

Trent Edwards: This one is borderline because it will be his first full year of starting. But with an OL that's good at pass blocking, an excellent RB, two god receivers and presumably better play calling, his performance will be all on himself.

Perry Fewell: In the last 3 seasons, we have spent 3 first-round draft picks and an early second rounder on the defensive side of the ball (Whitner, McCargo, Poz, McKelvin). We added three FA's to the D this year- two who should start and one who will probably play a large role coming off the bench. There are no more excuses for this D to NOT do it's job.

Dick Jauron: This is his third full season and he's had basically 3 off-seasons to shape his team. Playoffs or bust.



Yeah. Our recievers our god. Damn right :D:

[acehole]

The chance at the playoffs rests on the shoulders of Trent Edwards. He doesn't have to be amazing but he does have to be solid. I think he will do it but if not we could be in major trouble.

Man have we lowered the bar in this town....