Inside look at Bills' war room goings on?

[TigerJ]

This guy (user name "Schmuggs") claims to be a bartender at The Black and Bleu restaurant. The other night, the entire Bills front office cam in and was rehashing the draft. He reports the following things as stuff he heard Bills staffers say:

"Russ wanted Connor but consensus was DE. Poz who played with him in college and did not get along with him (thought he was not a good athlete) and gave him the “thumbs down”. Wound up taking Ellis. One of two top DE in the ACC. The other of course was Long. They had Ellis graded just below Long.

Derek Fine was graded on the board as a third rounder. Was top three on their list of TE. Almost was drafted in the third until they called San Diego, Fine was not even on their draft board so they decided to wait till the forth.


If Mckelvin was not available at 11. A trade down deal was made with the Cardinals. In return for a third rounder. Then they would’ve picked Thomas. Three out of the five scouts had Hardy rated higher than Thomas. They think he will be a “beast” in the redzone. McKelvin wound up dropping to them so the Bills canceled the trade. Though they tried to make a move for thomas later in the first.

They think the sleepers are Omon they were very impressed with his college stats. He will definetley be the third RB. Also LB Bowen though a bit slow should be a special teams ace. “Stamers replacement”.

F. Davis wasn’t picked in the second because of a bum knee."

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=57109

I don't know if you are allowed in if you're not a member there.

[Tatonka]

it makes me feel better about fine that they liked him that much.. i guess what i wonder is that, while i understand what their board says about him (that they had him as a 3rd rounder), do they really have a feel for what other teams feel a guy is? i mean, you might have him as a 3rd, but if the guy is viewed as a 5 or 6th (and i am not saying that is what the other teams had him as), then you still drafted him too early right? or is that bad logic and you just take teh guy that is top on your list without worrying about what the other teams do?

[Tatonka]

and if they were going to take him in the 3rd, then why was Corner the 1st pick of the 4th?

[jamze132]

Nobody knows if this is even true.

[Romes]

it makes me feel better about fine that they liked him that much.. i guess what i wonder is that, while i understand what their board says about him (that they had him as a 3rd rounder), do they really have a feel for what other teams feel a guy is? i mean, you might have him as a 3rd, but if the guy is viewed as a 5 or 6th (and i am not saying that is what the other teams had him as), then you still drafted him too early right? or is that bad logic and you just take teh guy that is top on your list without worrying about what the other teams do?

I think you have to take the guy thats at the top of your list and trust your scouting. After all its hard to know where other teams have placed a guy and it really only takes 1 other team that has him rated higher than you to steal him from under you.

Its cliche but we will only be able to tell if the Bills scouting was off and reached or not 2-3 years down the line...

[Ingtar33]

weird... that they would call someone about their board.

I mean i remember our war-rooms... and while i had friends and colleagues on other team's front offices... i never recall picking up a phone... (or anyone else for that matter) to ask how someone else had player xyz graded.

mostly because no answer you'd get could be trusted.

In the end you have to trust your own scout's evaluation.

[LtFinFan66]

I am sure San Diego truthfully would tell another team if someone was on their draft board

[John Doe]

Poz did not get along with Connor because he thought that he was not a good athlete?

It is possible that Poz may think that, but he has had nothing but good things to say about Connor.

[YardRat]

I'm always a little surprised at how frank and open the staff can be when talking with fans.

[Confused]

horse-hockey!!!!

[Mitchy moo]

Link?

[The Spaz]

weird... that they would call someone about their board.

I mean i remember our war-rooms... and while i had friends and colleagues on other team's front offices... i never recall picking up a phone... (or anyone else for that matter) to ask how someone else had player xyz graded.

mostly because no answer you'd get could be trusted.

In the end you have to trust your own scout's evaluation.

That's why I call BS on this.

[DMBcrew36]

That restaurant is right by my house in Williamsville. Our steel plant did some work for the building. It never looks like anyone is in there.


Anyways, how could Poz say Connor isn't a good athlete? Sounds like BS and calls into question the credibility of any of this. Also, I'm surprised that these front office guys would drive all the way up to the northtowns to have dinner/lunch (unless they live in Amherst/Clarence since its the nicest area). And then why would they discuss any of this with a random bartender?

[TigerJ]

Link?Go back and reread, Skooby, the link is right there to the Bills message board. That link is the only one possible since it's a conversation alleged to have been overheard by a bartender. You either believe him, or you don't.

[Pinkerton Security]

weird... that they would call someone about their board.

I mean i remember our war-rooms... and while i had friends and colleagues on other team's front offices... i never recall picking up a phone... (or anyone else for that matter) to ask how someone else had player xyz graded.

mostly because no answer you'd get could be trusted.

In the end you have to trust your own scout's evaluation.

you used to be in an NFL war room?

[DraftBoy]

Im not doubting you on the Tiger because I know your just reposting what somebody else said but something seems really fishy about this.

[Goobylal]

I believe everything posted, given what happened. The only thing that gave me pause initially was Poz' comment about how Connor "was not a good athlete" given that Connor broke Poz' records at PSU. But Connor wasn't taken until the middle of the 3rd, so Poz doesn't appear to be alone in his thinking. Also calling SD about Fine seems odd, but I've heard of teams doing stuff like that, about later picks, not higher ones.

[EDS]

So the Bills front office, a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in forever, rates a guy as a third rounder, and the San Diego front office, one of the better teams in the league, doesn't have the guy on their draft board at all.

Who is smarter then who? I guess we will find out in the coming years.

[TigerJ]

you used to be in an NFL war room?Ingtar never went into detail about what team, except it was not Buffalo, but he is a former NFL scout, now coaching college football (we think).

[Saratoga Slim]

So the Bills front office, a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in forever, rates a guy as a third rounder, and the San Diego front office, one of the better teams in the league, doesn't have the guy on their draft board at all.

Who is smarter then who? I guess we will find out in the coming years.

I don"t think San Diego spent a lot of time looking at TEs. That would be like us scouting punters.

But yes, I'd feel better if I knew that other teams likewise had him ranked higher than the draft pundits.

[THATHURMANATOR]

it makes me feel better about fine that they liked him that much.. i guess what i wonder is that, while i understand what their board says about him (that they had him as a 3rd rounder), do they really have a feel for what other teams feel a guy is? i mean, you might have him as a 3rd, but if the guy is viewed as a 5 or 6th (and i am not saying that is what the other teams had him as), then you still drafted him too early right? or is that bad logic and you just take teh guy that is top on your list without worrying about what the other teams do?
Plus how many zoners have actually seen most of these guys play anyways? Probably very few. Most are just going on what they have read online.
If the front office liked Fine I am good with him as well.

[JJamezz]

http://pandadan.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/crap.jpg

[colin]

obv this story sounds like it might be fake, but i dunno, people say things and if i heard something being talked about like that i'd post it here.

anyhow, i do think the comment about conner's athleticism is correct (not that poz said it). compared to poz conner is a much lesser athlete. acceleration, timing, fluidity, cover type skills, poz is way better than conner in all of those.

conner is a great tackler, but i don't think he has anything else like poz.

[justasportsfan]

Poz is paid to like anyone we bring on board. The story smells fishy and anything fishy usually stinks.

[Pinkerton Security]

Ingtar never went into detail about what team, except it was not Buffalo, but he is a former NFL scout, now coaching college football (we think).

sweet.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Poz is paid to like anyone we bring on board. The story smells fishy and anything fishy usually stinks.
Well we wouldnt know either way but do you think Poz would say he hates anyone to the public?

[yordad]

weird... that they would call someone about their board.

I mean i remember our war-rooms... and while i had friends and colleagues on other team's front offices... i never recall picking up a phone... (or anyone else for that matter) to ask how someone else had player xyz graded.

mostly because no answer you'd get could be trusted.

In the end you have to trust your own scout's evaluation.What? That is all I can say for now.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ingtar was involved in professional Football in the NFL and sat in on war rooms.

[justasportsfan]

Well we wouldnt know either way but do you think Poz would say he hates anyone to the public?

people here have wealthy friends who leak stuff around.

[THATHURMANATOR]

people here have wealthy friends who leak stuff around.
LOL

[The Answer]

This guy (user name "Schmuggs") claims to be a bartender at The Black and Bleu restaurant. The other night, the entire Bills front office cam in and was rehashing the draft. He reports the following things as stuff he heard Bills staffers say:

"Russ wanted Connor but consensus was DE. Poz who played with him in college and did not get along with him (thought he was not a good athlete) and gave him the “thumbs down”. Wound up taking Ellis. One of two top DE in the ACC. The other of course was Long. They had Ellis graded just below Long.

Derek Fine was graded on the board as a third rounder. Was top three on their list of TE. Almost was drafted in the third until they called San Diego, Fine was not even on their draft board so they decided to wait till the forth.


If Mckelvin was not available at 11. A trade down deal was made with the Cardinals. In return for a third rounder. Then they would’ve picked Thomas. Three out of the five scouts had Hardy rated higher than Thomas. They think he will be a “beast” in the redzone. McKelvin wound up dropping to them so the Bills canceled the trade. Though they tried to make a move for thomas later in the first.

They think the sleepers are Omon they were very impressed with his college stats. He will definetley be the third RB. Also LB Bowen though a bit slow should be a special teams ace. “Stamers replacement”.

F. Davis wasn’t picked in the second because of a bum knee."

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=57109

I don't know if you are allowed in if you're not a member there.

I believe this is BS.

My source is credible and just how I reported a few days before the draft he told me that the only way we would stay at #11 is that if McKelvin was there (and he was) and if not we would deal with KC (and reports have confirmed we were talking with them before and during the draft).

I also find it hard to believe that Cardinals wanted to trade up and take a WR at #11 especially given their current roster and their biggest needs (defense).

And why on earth would the chargers tell us their draft plans and who was on their board? That is ludicrous.

~The Answer

[Ickybaluky]

anyhow, i do think the comment about conner's athleticism is correct (not that poz said it). compared to poz conner is a much lesser athlete. acceleration, timing, fluidity, cover type skills, poz is way better than conner in all of those.

I don't think Connor is as fluid as Posluszny, but athletically they measured very close:

Posluszny:

40: 4.7 (Combine), 4.58 (Pro Day)
225 Reps: 22
Broad Jump: 9'8"
Vertical: 37"
Shuttle: 4.2
Cone: 6.94

Connor:

40: 4.67 (Pro Day)
225 Reps: 22
Broad Jump: 9'7"
Vertical: 35"
Shuttle: 4.25
Cone: 6.78

I think they are pretty similar, and have been compared together their entire careers at Penn State. I think Posluszny has a little better range, and is better in coverage. Both aren't at their best taking on blocks, but have great noses for the ball and chase down tackles. Neither is a great blitzer.

[Coach Sal]

I would be highly disappointed in the Bills FO if they actualy went into a public place as a group and talked about ths kind of stuff. That is highly unprofessional.

It's also highly unlikely they would do that. Even at the HS level, when we go out as coaches we are very careful as to what we discuss openly.

[Goobylal]

I believe this is BS.

My source is credible and just how I reported a few days before the draft he told me that the only way we would stay at #11 is that if McKelvin was there (and he was) and if not we would deal with KC (and reports have confirmed we were talking with them before and during the draft).

I also find it hard to believe that Cardinals wanted to trade up and take a WR at #11 especially given their current roster and their biggest needs (defense).

And why on earth would the chargers tell us their draft plans and who was on their board? That is ludicrous.

~The Answer
How is this BS based on your source? For starters, the "they" in "Then they would have taken Thomas" meant the Bills, not the Cardinals. Second of all, just because the Bills were talking with the Chefs before the draft, it doesn't mean they're the ONLY team the Bills were going to talk to. And the Chefs would have had to give up a lot more to get to #11, versus #15, where they got the guy they wanted anyway, Brandon Albert. And third, the Bills took McKelvin anyway, rendering any trade-down scenario moot.

[The Answer]

How is this BS based on your source? For starters, the "they" in "Then they would have taken Thomas" meant the Bills, not the Cardinals. Second of all, just because the Bills were talking with the Chefs before the draft, it doesn't mean they're the ONLY team the Bills were going to talk to. And the Chefs would have had to give up a lot more to get to #11, versus #15, where they got the guy they wanted anyway, Brandon Albert. And third, the Bills took McKelvin anyway, rendering any trade-down scenario moot.

It just doesn't add up - but that's just my opinion.

Just sounds like another BS - 'a friend of a friend told me', or 'my uncle ran into this guy at the airport' scenario but hey I could be wrong.

~The Answer

[The Answer]

I would be highly disappointed in the Bills FO if they actualy went into a public place as a group and talked about ths kind of stuff. That is highly unprofessional.

It's also highly unlikely they would do that. Even at the HS level, when we go out as coaches we are very careful as to what we discuss openly.

If it was the Donablow regime than I'd believe it in a heartbeat.

But I have to believe the current regime has a bit more common sense.

~The Answer

[HAMMER]

I would be highly disappointed in the Bills FO if they actualy went into a public place as a group and talked about ths kind of stuff. That is highly unprofessional.

It's also highly unlikely they would do that. Even at the HS level, when we go out as coaches we are very careful as to what we discuss openly.

I agree, any true professional would not be openly discussing personnel matters within ear shot of a bartender or patrons.

[camelcowboy]

Why not tell a bartender ? Not like anyone will believe him. I'll tell u if my bartender breached my confidence like this I would be pissed!

[Philagape]

Why not tell a bartender ? Not like anyone will believe him. I'll tell u if my bartender breached my confidence like this I would be pissed!

If a bartender did do this, he should be fired.

[Ingtar33]

Ingtar never went into detail about what team, except it was not Buffalo, but he is a former NFL scout, now coaching college football (we think).

yep. coaching now. thank god. I actually work normal hours now.

[coastal]

I would be highly disappointed in the Bills FO if they actualy went into a public place as a group and talked about ths kind of stuff. That is highly unprofessional.

It's also highly unlikely they would do that. Even at the HS level, when we go out as coaches we are very careful as to what we discuss openly.Until the booze starts flowing... and the draft is over so who really cares. It's not like you have keep your board too close to the vest now. I mean the only consideration is saying the wrong thing that might upset one of the guys you just drafted.

I for one believe there is ome truth in this.

As far as Russ Brandon wanting Connor. He needs to STFU and remember that his job is to get money from Canada so we can keep this crap hole team.

[HAMMER]

Until the booze starts flowing... and the draft is over so who really cares. It's not like you have keep your board too close to the vest now. I mean the only consideration is saying the wrong thing that might upset one of the guys you just drafted.

I for one believe there is ome truth in this.

As far as Russ Brandon wanting Connor. He needs to STFU and remember that his job is to get money from Canada so we can keep this crap hole team.

This post is a douche.

[coastal]

and you can blow me.

[Marvelous]

I REALLY miss the Bilsl Digest POST-DRAFT breakdown from Chris Brown.. I don't subscribe anymore but if i do miss anything about the paper it's teh pre & post draft issues...

--If anyone on here subscibes can you post the C.Brown war room breakdown.. 4 years ago. I think it was the Jabari Greer year, Chris Brown went through the whole UDFA process and how Tom Donahoe was organized and did a dmn good job.. Relax TD haters.. Donahoe wasn't a horrid drafter. He had other suspect concerns but drafting was usually A-ok w/ me...Minus the Flowers draft & the Everett & Parrish one..



--OT----Curious, howcome you guys are so down w/ the Phin fan? :shakeno: Did i miss something? :insane:

[Typ0]

this SD thing is hillarious. This would just never happen...and even if it did why are they trusting SDs judgement that the player is not on anyone elses draft board that is going to draft before you.

[Philagape]

If I'm an NFL GM, and I have 10 minutes or less to make my pick, and I want my staff and phones available for actual trade talks and contacting players/agents, I'd be pissed if another team called just to see who I have ranked on my draft board. I can't imagine that happening.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Maybe Ralph still owes AJ Smith money and he HAS to be nice to us.

[Oaf]

SO, we had two options

1. Leodis at 11.
2. Get the Cards 3rd rounder + Devin Thomas

and we went with McKelvin. That could prove to be the difference between postseason or not the next few years. We will see.

[Marvelous]

SO, we had two options

1. Leodis at 11.
2. Get the Cards 3rd rounder + Devin Thomas


Screw that.. If i was unhappy with our draft(i'm not) i would just need to envision this scenerio...
--As far as Hardy over Devin Thomas goes, i'm super amped about having such a tall threat.. I don't recall us ever having such a tall threat.. Aiken, but he was a wr bust. Beat of a gunner but not worth the WR roster spot imo....


and we went with McKelvin. That could prove to be the difference between postseason or not the next few years. We will see
Indeed.. Even if it were agreed that Devin Thomas is superior to Hardy there's still NO-WAY that Cards 3rd is = to McKelvin.. I love our draft!!