McKelvin's ball skills "issues"

[Coach Sal]

A lot's been made of Leodis McKelvin's inability to catch the ball on pass breakups. You would generally think that a guy who handles so many punts and kickoffs - and handles them so well - wouldn't have issues catching interceptions. Some people try to reason that it's because the ball is coming from a different angle. But, honestly, that shouldn't be an issue because as a DB, he gets plenty of work in practice seeing the ball coming at him from that angle.

After looking at some of the film of him playing in college, as well as his combine and senior bowl videos, here are my observations concerning this issue:

1. Most of his "drops" appear to be when he allows the ball to get too close to his body and does not catch it with his hands. In reality, when he actually gets his two hands on it, he doesn't seem to have any difficulty catching it. In the combine vids, where there was nobody for him to cover and just ball drills, he pretty much caught everything thrown at him once he got his arms extended and put his hands on it. The one ball I saw him drop there was an over-the-shoulder throw that he let come to him instead of making a play on it (which would have been tough anyway).

I will say all this is odd, though, considering he fields punts the same way (letting it come into his body) and doesn't have an issue there.

2. He gets at least one hand on a lot of balls that most corners would never get to. Those corners would just have to make the tackle as soon as it gets to the WR. So, by doing this, Leodis is actually breaking up a lot of passes with either one hand or by having his hands in odd positions not conducive to making catches. So, even though it may seem sometimes like he didn't catch a pass he should have, in reality, he often did all he could just to get one mitt on it (and in some cases two), whereas almost any other CB wouldn't have even been able to make that play.

So, the bottom line is, sure, there are some balls he should probably have come up with that he didn't, but I'm not too worried about this issue right now. First of all, the #1 job of any CB is to break up passes. This kid does that better than anyone else who was in the draft. THAT'S what's important. Interceptions are a bi-product of breaking up passes and are great of you can get them, but I'd rather have a guy who breaks up a ton of passes w/out many INTs than a guy who doesn't break up as many passes but has more INTs, because that second guy is the one who's gong to cost us games by getting beat for touchdowns.

Secondly, the "too close to the body" issue is coachable and correctible. I'm sure that this will be something he will be working on a lot. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-3 years we totally forget this was even a concern for Leodis when we drafted him.

[LABillsFan]

Are PI calls against him on the high or low end, if there is any info on this.

[jamze132]

I heard somewhere that CBs are basically receivers who couldn't catch the ball. :poop:

If McKelvin's only knock against him is he can't "catch the ball", then great! That means he does everything else well enough to not get mentioned when someone is talking about him. No one on the Bills picks th ball off anyways, so he shoulf fit right in!

But seriously, the guy will probably catch the ball if it's catchable.

[YardRat]

I agree, Sal...no big deal. As long as he can his hand(s) on the ball to break up the play, a pick is just icing on the cake.

[Crisis]

didnt winfield get killed around here for dropping easy ints

wonder how long before the board turns on mcklevin after he drops an easy one

[MikeInRoch]

Are you kidding, he'll get killed on this board BEFORE he drops an easy one.

[ddaryl]

as long as McKelvin is breaking up passes and making plays I doubt any of us are going to be *****ing... too much...

there is always frustration on the INT that bounces off the CB hands or chest, but pass breakups are needed on this team just the same.

[acehole]

Bottom line is he was brought in to deal with a Moss on the downside...weather to pick off Tom brady or to bat the ball down......I dont think thay care. Now if corner can cover welker we may have somthing here.....


A lot's been made of Leodis McKelvin's inability to catch the ball on pass breakups. You would generally think that a guy who handles so many punts and kickoffs - and handles them so well - wouldn't have issues catching interceptions. Some people try to reason that it's because the ball is coming from a different angle. But, honestly, that shouldn't be an issue because as a DB, he gets plenty of work in practice seeing the ball coming at him from that angle.

After looking at some of the film of him playing in college, as well as his combine and senior bowl videos, here are my observations concerning this issue:

1. Most of his "drops" appear to be when he allows the ball to get too close to his body and does not catch it with his hands. In reality, when he actually gets his two hands on it, he doesn't seem to have any difficulty catching it. In the combine vids, where there was nobody for him to cover and just ball drills, he pretty much caught everything thrown at him once he got his arms extended and put his hands on it. The one ball I saw him drop there was an over-the-shoulder throw that he let come to him instead of making a play on it (which would have been tough anyway).

I will say all this is odd, though, considering he fields punts the same way (letting it come into his body) and doesn't have an issue there.

2. He gets at least one hand on a lot of balls that most corners would never get to. Those corners would just have to make the tackle as soon as it gets to the WR. So, by doing this, Leodis is actually breaking up a lot of passes with either one hand or by having his hands in odd positions not conducive to making catches. So, even though it may seem sometimes like he didn't catch a pass he should have, in reality, he often did all he could just to get one mitt on it (and in some cases two), whereas almost any other CB wouldn't have even been able to make that play.

So, the bottom line is, sure, there are some balls he should probably have come up with that he didn't, but I'm not too worried about this issue right now. First of all, the #1 job of any CB is to break up passes. This kid does that better than anyone else who was in the draft. THAT'S what's important. Interceptions are a bi-product of breaking up passes and are great of you can get them, but I'd rather have a guy who breaks up a ton of passes w/out many INTs than a guy who doesn't break up as many passes but has more INTs, because that second guy is the one who's gong to cost us games by getting beat for touchdowns.

Secondly, the "too close to the body" issue is coachable and correctible. I'm sure that this will be something he will be working on a lot. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-3 years we totally forget this was even a concern for Leodis when we drafted him.

[Mitchy moo]

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/takeanumber.jpg


A lot's been made of Leodis McKelvin's inability to catch the ball on pass breakups. You would generally think that a guy who handles so many punts and kickoffs - and handles them so well - wouldn't have issues catching interceptions. Some people try to reason that it's because the ball is coming from a different angle. But, honestly, that shouldn't be an issue because as a DB, he gets plenty of work in practice seeing the ball coming at him from that angle.

After looking at some of the film of him playing in college, as well as his combine and senior bowl videos, here are my observations concerning this issue:

1. Most of his "drops" appear to be when he allows the ball to get too close to his body and does not catch it with his hands. In reality, when he actually gets his two hands on it, he doesn't seem to have any difficulty catching it. In the combine vids, where there was nobody for him to cover and just ball drills, he pretty much caught everything thrown at him once he got his arms extended and put his hands on it. The one ball I saw him drop there was an over-the-shoulder throw that he let come to him instead of making a play on it (which would have been tough anyway).

I will say all this is odd, though, considering he fields punts the same way (letting it come into his body) and doesn't have an issue there.

2. He gets at least one hand on a lot of balls that most corners would never get to. Those corners would just have to make the tackle as soon as it gets to the WR. So, by doing this, Leodis is actually breaking up a lot of passes with either one hand or by having his hands in odd positions not conducive to making catches. So, even though it may seem sometimes like he didn't catch a pass he should have, in reality, he often did all he could just to get one mitt on it (and in some cases two), whereas almost any other CB wouldn't have even been able to make that play.

So, the bottom line is, sure, there are some balls he should probably have come up with that he didn't, but I'm not too worried about this issue right now. First of all, the #1 job of any CB is to break up passes. This kid does that better than anyone else who was in the draft. THAT'S what's important. Interceptions are a bi-product of breaking up passes and are great of you can get them, but I'd rather have a guy who breaks up a ton of passes w/out many INTs than a guy who doesn't break up as many passes but has more INTs, because that second guy is the one who's gong to cost us games by getting beat for touchdowns.

Secondly, the "too close to the body" issue is coachable and correctible. I'm sure that this will be something he will be working on a lot. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-3 years we totally forget this was even a concern for Leodis when we drafted him.

[feelthepain]

A lot's been made of Leodis McKelvin's inability to catch the ball on pass breakups. You would generally think that a guy who handles so many punts and kickoffs - and handles them so well - wouldn't have issues catching interceptions. Some people try to reason that it's because the ball is coming from a different angle. But, honestly, that shouldn't be an issue because as a DB, he gets plenty of work in practice seeing the ball coming at him from that angle.

After looking at some of the film of him playing in college, as well as his combine and senior bowl videos, here are my observations concerning this issue:

1. Most of his "drops" appear to be when he allows the ball to get too close to his body and does not catch it with his hands. In reality, when he actually gets his two hands on it, he doesn't seem to have any difficulty catching it. In the combine vids, where there was nobody for him to cover and just ball drills, he pretty much caught everything thrown at him once he got his arms extended and put his hands on it. The one ball I saw him drop there was an over-the-shoulder throw that he let come to him instead of making a play on it (which would have been tough anyway).

I will say all this is odd, though, considering he fields punts the same way (letting it come into his body) and doesn't have an issue there.

2. He gets at least one hand on a lot of balls that most corners would never get to. Those corners would just have to make the tackle as soon as it gets to the WR. So, by doing this, Leodis is actually breaking up a lot of passes with either one hand or by having his hands in odd positions not conducive to making catches. So, even though it may seem sometimes like he didn't catch a pass he should have, in reality, he often did all he could just to get one mitt on it (and in some cases two), whereas almost any other CB wouldn't have even been able to make that play.

So, the bottom line is, sure, there are some balls he should probably have come up with that he didn't, but I'm not too worried about this issue right now. First of all, the #1 job of any CB is to break up passes. This kid does that better than anyone else who was in the draft. THAT'S what's important. Interceptions are a bi-product of breaking up passes and are great of you can get them, but I'd rather have a guy who breaks up a ton of passes w/out many INTs than a guy who doesn't break up as many passes but has more INTs, because that second guy is the one who's gong to cost us games by getting beat for touchdowns.

Secondly, the "too close to the body" issue is coachable and correctible. I'm sure that this will be something he will be working on a lot. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-3 years we totally forget this was even a concern for Leodis when we drafted him.
Couldn't you basically put this spin on every player that has some sort of issue?

[DrGraves]

I hate to say it but ted ginn over here is right. he was picked number 11 in the draft for a reason. shut up until he plays a down on sunday

[Mitchy moo]

I hate to say it but ted ginn over here is right. he was picked number 11 in the draft for a reason. shut up until he plays a down on sunday

:nod:

[LifetimeBillsFan]

A lot's been made of Leodis McKelvin's inability to catch the ball on pass breakups. You would generally think that a guy who handles so many punts and kickoffs - and handles them so well - wouldn't have issues catching interceptions. Some people try to reason that it's because the ball is coming from a different angle. But, honestly, that shouldn't be an issue because as a DB, he gets plenty of work in practice seeing the ball coming at him from that angle.....

2. He gets at least one hand on a lot of balls that most corners would never get to. Those corners would just have to make the tackle as soon as it gets to the WR. So, by doing this, Leodis is actually breaking up a lot of passes with either one hand or by having his hands in odd positions not conducive to making catches. So, even though it may seem sometimes like he didn't catch a pass he should have, in reality, he often did all he could just to get one mitt on it (and in some cases two), whereas almost any other CB wouldn't have even been able to make that play.

So, the bottom line is, sure, there are some balls he should probably have come up with that he didn't, but I'm not too worried about this issue right now. First of all, the #1 job of any CB is to break up passes. This kid does that better than anyone else who was in the draft. THAT'S what's important. Interceptions are a bi-product of breaking up passes and are great of you can get them, but I'd rather have a guy who breaks up a ton of passes w/out many INTs than a guy who doesn't break up as many passes but has more INTs, because that second guy is the one who's gong to cost us games by getting beat for touchdowns.

Secondly, the "too close to the body" issue is coachable and correctible. I'm sure that this will be something he will be working on a lot. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-3 years we totally forget this was even a concern for Leodis when we drafted him.

Superb observations, Coach Sal! I totally agree with you.

While I didn't get to break down any of McKelvin's game film, I did watch him in the drills at the Senior Bowl and he was just amazing: I've never seen a DB get a hand on as many passes as he did in those drills.

And, IMHO, you are absolutely correct about part of the reason for him not making INTs that he gets his hands on being that he gets to balls that other CBs don't get to. I saw that in the Senior Bowl drills--no DB could have caught some of the passes he knocked down simply because other DBs just wouldn't have even come close enough to get a hand on the ball (other than maybe D.Sanders!).

McKelvin has just an incredible burst back to the ball. If you look at the video of the Day 3 of the rookie mini-camp that is posted on BB.com, there is a very short segment that was shot when the DBs were doing a drill where they ran back (as if mirroring a WR), planted and came back towards "the line of scrimmage" that shows McKelvin doing this drill. It's only a drill and they were only going 3/4 speed, but McKelvin changes direction and bursts back towards the LOS so quickly.

The quickness of his recovery and that burst is what puts him in a position to make plays on the ball--to get a hand in and knock a pass down--that other CBs don't even have a chance to get to.

I think that he is going to be a very interesting player to watch. And, I also agree with you that he was brought in to ultimately match up with Moss.

But, I also think that the Bills discovered something last season: when they had Nate Clements, there were critical times in the game when they could put Clements man-to-man on a Chad Johnson and use a blitz or shift their coverage to the other side of the field because they knew that Clements could lock his man down; without Nate Clements, they couldn't do that as readily and, when they did, generally, one of their smallish CBs was left in a mis-match with a bigger WR. This seriously limited P.Fewell's options and ability to change up his defensive calls in critical situations, particularly against 3-WR sets. Fewell could not be as aggressive or creative in trying to help his front four in rushing the passer as he needed to be in certain situations.

As much as they needed a big target on offense--and they knew the need was dire--they recognized that what McKelvin could ultimately give them on defense--the flexibility to "go off script" in critical situations as they were able to do when they had N.Clements--could do as much for the success of the team as getting that big target for the offense. There were other CBs in the draft who could be good in their based zone defense, but McKelvin is a guy who can step in and give them the ability to use other options at some point this season (unlike DRC, who will need time to develop before he gets to that point).

I also agree with you that, with time and coaching, the INTs will come. But, I also agree that I would rather have a guy who knocks down 3 third down passes than a guy who intercepts one, but gives up two completions on third down. One of the biggest problems that the Bills' defense had last season was getting off the field on third downs. While the offense contributed some to the defense spending so much time on the field, just as often, if not more often, it was the defense's inability to keep the opposition from converting on third down and sustaining drives (in the first half, not just the 4th quarter) that led to the defense spending so much time on the field and getting worn down. Having a guy like McKelvin, who can stop the opposition from converting on third down himself or allow Fewell to change up the defense and confuse the opposition on third down, should really help the defense to get itself off the field more often when it has a chance to do so.

[colin]

nice work sal, well average work for you!

pure cover skills imo are like pass rush skills -- it is just an innate ability that some guys have and some guys don't. from what i've seen on him leodis is a gifted cover guy who is also a maniac in terms of hard work and dedication to the sport and the position. deon was the same -- he figured he had to run drills and practice more than anyone else to be the best and he did. although a hall will have superior balls skills, i'll take a pure cover guy and have our coaches work with him on the ceptos rather than a ball hawk who will have lapses.

i think the idea with leodis is for him to match up and frustrate a wr all day, allowing us to blitz and disguise coverages for turnovers. clements was awesome, but oppenents would try him (sometimes for picks, sometimes for big plays) because he was a bit undicsiplined and a gambler.

i'd rather gamble with blitzes and stunts and trickery rather than with a one on one match up.

[jamze132]

Couldn't you basically put this spin on every player that has some sort of issue?
Actually it would be impossible to put that kind of positive spin on Ted Ginn Jr.

[Coach Sal]

Couldn't you basically put this spin on every player that has some sort of issue?

What "spin?"

The guy has a legitimate knock on his inability to catch interceptions. One in which he even admits he needs to work on. I wanted to understand for myself why he has this issue, and after I made some observations, I posted them here.

[Coach Sal]

I hate to say it but ted ginn over here is right. he was picked number 11 in the draft for a reason. shut up until he plays a down on sunday

We shouldn't talk about the strengths and weeknesses of our draft picks on a Bills message board?

(maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but it looks like that's what you are saying)?!

[baalworship]

I think that he is going to be a very interesting player to watch. And, I also agree with you that he was brought in to ultimately match up with Moss.

But, I also think that the Bills discovered something last season: when they had Nate Clements, there were critical times in the game when they could put Clements man-to-man on a Chad Johnson and use a blitz or shift their coverage to the other side of the field because they knew that Clements could lock his man down; without Nate Clements, they couldn't do that as readily and, when they did, generally, one of their smallish CBs was left in a mis-match with a bigger WR. This seriously limited P.Fewell's options and ability to change up his defensive calls in critical situations, particularly against 3-WR sets. Fewell could not be as aggressive or creative in trying to help his front four in rushing the passer as he needed to be in certain situations.

As much as they needed a big target on offense--and they knew the need was dire--they recognized that what McKelvin could ultimately give them on defense--the flexibility to "go off script" in critical situations as they were able to do when they had N.Clements--could do as much for the success of the team as getting that big target for the offense. There were other CBs in the draft who could be good in their based zone defense, but McKelvin is a guy who can step in and give them the ability to use other options at some point this season (unlike DRC, who will need time to develop before he gets to that point).



Great observation. McKelvin should give Fewell the flexibility to dial up more blitzes which is exactly what you need to do to stop passing attacks like the Patriots.

[feelthepain]

What "spin?"

The guy has a legitimate knock on his inability to catch interceptions. One in which he even admits he needs to work on. I wanted to understand for myself why he has this issue, and after I made some observations, I posted them here.

You are putting a spin on a players ability to overcome his reputation for not having good hands. You make it seem as if his issues are overblown and they aren't something to worry about because they're eaisly corrected. You can do that with any player. It's called speculation, that's all I'm saying.

[DrGraves]

We shouldn't talk about the strengths and weeknesses of our draft picks on a Bills message board?

(maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but it looks like that's what you are saying)?!

No not at all, I agree with all of your observations...

I just think that McKelvin is going to be a tremendous player and shouldn't have any immediate concerns, yet.