In the end, it's about the QB

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Looking back I think many people like me realized the JP Losman's failure in the 2007 season is probably the biggest reason the Bills didn't improve their record. How many of us expected JP to finally arrived in 2007 and get into the top QB ranks in NFL based on his 2006 season?

It just didn't happen.

So now looking into the 2008 season, we are, sadly, staring at the same question as we had in 2007: Edwards' season says a lot about the Bills season in 2008.

But there are differences. No matter what your opinions about Edwards and Losman, this is almost a guarantee: Edwards will be better in his second year. Look around in NFL, almost all rookie QBs getting better, even Vince Young had better completion ratios. Losman, himself is better from 2004 to 2005 and if that's not satifactory to people, from 2005 to 2006.

Getting better in the 2nd year does not mean a star is born. NFL is a cruel business. People get paid to study you and to stop you. A lot of people fizzle under that circumstance. Those continue to improve become true NFL QBs.

But in the 2nd year, it's more of a you adjust to the league than the league adjust to you. That's why so many improved in their 2nd year. Consider Edwards situation last year - in camp he had to share reps with a 2nd Stringer which was way behind Losman's already. He got almost no time to get used to Evans and other starting players. The playbook was new to him. He got no NFL off-season conditioning. It's hard to imagine he wouldn't get better now that he's established as the clear cut starter.

True, opponents have tapes on him now. But I believe it's more of a case that he has the real sense, mental tape of how teams in NFL play. In other words, he has not shown his true playing form - a form that he's comfortable at.

That's why I feel the Bills have a good chance of improving this year. Based on their 7-9 showing last year, it does not take much to be a realistic playoff contender.

But that does not mean Edwards is the franchise QB. For that I need to see his 2009 season.

[Philagape]

Great post.

I'm not sure how much defenses can gain by studying films of Edwards. His strengths are things that are hard to counter: accuracy*, field vision, quick reads, feeling the rush. He can make a variety of throws and roll out, so it's not like he can be pigeonholed. Good execution beats good defense.

Plus, you can pretty much throw out last year's tapes. We have a new OC and a new WR who brings a whole new dimension. And like you said, the transition from first year to second is a big one, so teams will have to figure him out all over again.




*his completion % outside the impossible-weather games was 62.8, which is extremely good for a rookie.

[Oaf]

I think that Edwards will turn it up to the next level, but Lynch will taper down a bit, slightly reducing his effectiveness relative to last year. However, I do think Lynch will double his catches so maybe that'll make up for it.

[DrGraves]

I think that Edwards will turn it up to the next level, but Lynch will taper down a bit, slightly reducing his effectiveness relative to last year. However, I do think Lynch will double his catches so maybe that'll make up for it.


I agree that lynch may cool down a little bit, but with a better passing attack lynch could be even more productive in the run game!

Not to forget freddy jackson!

[PECKERWOOD]

Trent needs to start making bigger plays. There is no question that he has the potential to be a solid game manager but he needs to prove that he can be a playmaker as well. Dinking and dunking can only get you so far, I want to see Trent make some difficult throws. Not only that but he needs to stay healthy. I think we will be able to tell if Trent is the future here or not by the end of next year. If Trent can stay healthy, make solid decisions and complete the difficult passes then we have a legitimate shot at the playoffs.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

We saw flashes of it in the Baltimore game, Trent has the capability to throw the long ball. However, he hasn't yet used it.

He also has to improve his play in the snow.

[jamze132]

Trent needs to start making bigger plays. There is no question that he has the potential to be a solid game manager but he needs to prove that he can be a playmaker as well. Dinking and dunking can only get you so far, I want to see Trent make some difficult throws. Not only that but he needs to stay healthy. I think we will be able to tell if Trent is the future here or not by the end of next year. If Trent can stay healthy, make solid decisions and complete the difficult passes then we have a legitimate shot at the playoffs.
Dink and dunk can get you far if we dink and dunk to the Lynch and Jackson, not Gaines and Royal.

[YardRat]

I hope he and the rest of the offense start off the season better than they have the last few years. Lately, the first few games have been almost painful to watch.

[Historian]

Oh please!

He was chuckin the pig all over the place against Dallas.

[Night Train]

So in the end, it's actually about the playcalling of the Turk.

[acehole]

I respectfully disagree.

Defense wins championships and we had among the worst in the NFL in 2006-2007 in both the run and the pass. On offense we had one playmaker in the passing attack worth note. On Paper we have improved that deffense with run stuffers both on the deffensive line and LB ing. We have also improved the secondary through free agency and the draft. We also will be getting many players back from injury on the deffensive side of the ball which should translate into an improved deffense. Which should translate into wins.

On the offensive side of the ball we have lost Fairchild, With his lack of imagination, no playaction worth anything, no audables and predictability opposing deffenses simply doubled Lee and put 8 in the box to stop the run and short passing game. I was clammoring since 2006 for a #2 Wr and TE worth a Dam to take pressure off of Lee and the qb position to open things up and it looks like we have that now in Hardy. A TE will have to arise from the bunch we have here. So again we can blame JP for the worst run deffense in the NFL and 29th in passing....we can also ignore Trent was statistically at the the bottom in all catagories on offense in 2007. This won't change the truth. Trent now has what JP never did...a team with few holes. It is the perfect situation for Trent (Or JP) and one that is vital for a qb to do well in. A good deffense and multiple weapons on offense including a running game and oline to protect him and a year in a system designed around high percentage passes. Eli,Rivers and Cutler all had the above to help them develop and it is the right model for bringing a qb along. I am hopful for the next season. On paper the Bills have this now including a weaker schedule. I really think we can make some noise this year.

All eyes will be on Trent to improve...and with no major holes, excuses will be hard to find. When you look at it another way Trent was at the bottom of the league in multiple offensive catagories...so there really is nowhere to go but up. It is not like you are going out on a limb here with your post with that piont.



Looking back I think many people like me realized the JP Losman's failure in the 2007 season is probably the biggest reason the Bills didn't improve their record. How many of us expected JP to finally arrived in 2007 and get into the top QB ranks in NFL based on his 2006 season?

It just didn't happen.

So now looking into the 2008 season, we are, sadly, staring at the same question as we had in 2007: Edwards' season says a lot about the Bills season in 2008.

But there are differences. No matter what your opinions about Edwards and Losman, this is almost a guarantee: Edwards will be better in his second year. Look around in NFL, almost all rookie QBs getting better, even Vince Young had better completion ratios. Losman, himself is better from 2004 to 2005 and if that's not satifactory to people, from 2005 to 2006.

Getting better in the 2nd year does not mean a star is born. NFL is a cruel business. People get paid to study you and to stop you. A lot of people fizzle under that circumstance. Those continue to improve become true NFL QBs.

But in the 2nd year, it's more of a you adjust to the league than the league adjust to you. That's why so many improved in their 2nd year. Consider Edwards situation last year - in camp he had to share reps with a 2nd Stringer which was way behind Losman's already. He got almost no time to get used to Evans and other starting players. The playbook was new to him. He got no NFL off-season conditioning. It's hard to imagine he wouldn't get better now that he's established as the clear cut starter.

True, opponents have tapes on him now. But I believe it's more of a case that he has the real sense, mental tape of how teams in NFL play. In other words, he has not shown his true playing form - a form that he's comfortable at.

That's why I feel the Bills have a good chance of improving this year. Based on their 7-9 showing last year, it does not take much to be a realistic playoff contender.

But that does not mean Edwards is the franchise QB. For that I need to see his 2009 season.

[acehole]

We saw flashes of it in the Baltimore game, Trent has the capability to throw the long ball. However, he hasn't yet used it.

He also has to improve his play in the snow.

Yes I saw him throw a long one...the problem is statically that is where most of his pick offs come from. He can do it...just not very well.

[acehole]

Yes defensive coodinaters will be stumped be the infamous Trent Edwards
QB Rating 29th T. Edwards 70.4 http://boards.buffalobills.com/images/smilies/barf.gif
Yards per attempt 31th T. Edwards 6.06 http://boards.buffalobills.com/images/smilies/barf.gif
Completion % 30 T. Edwards 56.1 http://boards.buffalobills.com/images/smilies/barf.gif
Touchdown % 28 T. Edwards 2.6

I love when people create thier own reality.



Great post.

I'm not sure how much defenses can gain by studying films of Edwards. His strengths are things that are hard to counter: accuracy*, field vision, quick reads, feeling the rush. He can make a variety of throws and roll out, so it's not like he can be pigeonholed. Good execution beats good defense.

Plus, you can pretty much throw out last year's tapes. We have a new OC and a new WR who brings a whole new dimension. And like you said, the transition from first year to second is a big one, so teams will have to figure him out all over again.




*his completion % outside the impossible-weather games was 62.8, which is extremely good for a rookie.

[TacklingDummy]

Yes I saw him throw a long one...the problem is statically that is where most of his pick offs come from. He can do it...just not very well.

6 of Trents 8 interceptions came on passes that were less than 20 yards.

Passes thrown over 20 yards...

TE: 6 of 23, 154 yards, 2 TDs, 2 Ints. Lee not fighting for ball in endzone led to Int.

JP: 5 of 21, 214 yards, 2 TDs, 2 Ints. Lee Evans 85 yard gift included.

Not much of a difference.

[TacklingDummy]

I love when people create thier own reality.

Agreed.

The JP faithful are good at it. :up:

[acehole]

Ok so he is inaccurate in the short game.

When you throw long 4 times and get picked 2 times it mean you can not throw the long ball accuratly enough or with enough velocity.

It is not a secret who can throw the long ball better.

[quote=TacklingDummy]6 of Trents 8 interceptions came on passes that were less than 20 yards.

[Novacane]

You are such a Trent hater acehole. Geez. If I was like the JP lickers I'd say you WANTED Edwards to fail but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :rolleyes:

[acehole]

You are such a Trent hater acehole. Geez. If I was like the JP lickers I'd say you WANTED Edwards to fail but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :rolleyes:

Try to stick to the topic of the post and debate it if you can. Otherwise what do you add to the board calling me names? I said the opposite in my post about Trent. I think he should do well under these conditions. I respectfully disagreed with the pionts of the original poster without calling him names. You should try the same if you can.

[HHURRICANE]

Well to be objective the things most rookie QBs improve upon are the things that Edwards looked pretty good at already. He doesn't hang onto the ball, he looked pretty comfortable in the pocket, and he showed some confidence reading Ds.

If he's going to improve alot it will be taking more chances downfield and trying to make some of the harder throws and improving the dynamics of the offense.

I actually think his improvement will be more related to how Schonert uses him. If we use the hurry up more and let him call his own plays than his improvement will be more noticeable.

[Buckets]

TRENT DILFER WON A SB

[jamze132]

Trent now has what JP never did...a team with few holes. It is the perfect situation for Trent (Or JP) and one that is vital for a qb to do well in.
I would say that Buffalo has more than a few holes.

1. Still no proven TE, which 98.8% of winning teams have one.
2. No C. Fowler really sucks balls.
3. Tiny receivers, minus the rookie, Hardy, who hasn't proven anything yet.

I could say a few more more but those are the glaring holes on the offense. I will save the defense for another thread.


I will say that Trent is getting a better team than JP had but it still has its holes. We'll see what he does with a new coordinator and a tall receiver. It should do nothng but help him. And any QB in Fairchild's offense is destined to be doomed.

[PECKERWOOD]

I would say that Buffalo has more than a few holes.

1. Still no proven TE, which 98.8% of winning teams have one.
2. No C. Fowler really sucks balls.
3. Tiny receivers, minus the rookie, Hardy, who hasn't proven anything yet.

I could say a few more more but those are the glaring holes on the offense. I will save the defense for another thread.


I will say that Trent is getting a better team than JP had but it still has its holes. We'll see what he does with a new coordinator and a tall receiver. It should do nothng but help him. And any QB in Fairchild's offense is destined to be doomed.

1. You may be right about not having an elite TE but Royal is a proven TE. Make no mistake about it, he isn't a Clark, Whitten, Gonzo or Gates but he is atleast an average TE. Plus, we gotta give this Fine guy a chance.
2. Once again, I don't think Fowler is a below average center, there is room for improvement though.
3. Who cares how tall your recievers are? Can they make plays? I don't see Lee Evans' height slowing him down any. I'm more than satisfied with Evans, Hardy and Reed as our 3 starters.


And any QB in Fairchild's offense is destined to be doomed.
Truer words have never been spoken. Just remember who Losman's OC was before he got benched, though.

[trapezeus]

i think the key to the seasons success is the long snapper.

[dasaybz]

Our D can cover up alot of the offense's shortcomings if they play much much better than last year.

Our run D the last 2 years has been pitiful. This will help out a ton, just by keeping the D off the field for so long.

[acehole]

I would say that Buffalo has more than a few holes.

1. Still no proven TE, which 98.8% of winning teams have one.
2. No C. Fowler really sucks balls.
3. Tiny receivers, minus the rookie, Hardy, who hasn't proven anything yet.

I could say a few more more but those are the glaring holes on the offense. I will save the defense for another thread.


I will say that Trent is getting a better team than JP had but it still has its holes. We'll see what he does with a new coordinator and a tall receiver. It should do nothng but help him. And any QB in Fairchild's offense is destined to be doomed.

I agree and of course it is just on paper that this team is better.
I think with fairchild alone leaving we will be more explosive on offense.

[justasportsfan]

If you ask TDummy, our qb doesn't need any help. We have no holes offensively. The QB should be able to do everything on his own.

[Typ0]

Trent needs to start making bigger plays. There is no question that he has the potential to be a solid game manager but he needs to prove that he can be a playmaker as well. Dinking and dunking can only get you so far, I want to see Trent make some difficult throws. Not only that but he needs to stay healthy. I think we will be able to tell if Trent is the future here or not by the end of next year. If Trent can stay healthy, make solid decisions and complete the difficult passes then we have a legitimate shot at the playoffs.


TE has already shown he can make big plays and difficult throws. What he needs to work on is consistency. I feel bad for the guy that every time he throws something into the flats the hate mongors are going to come out and complain about the dink and dunk.

[raphael120]

1. You may be right about not having an elite TE but Royal is a proven TE.

WOW...I thought some Bills fans head their heads in the sand but damn...I didn't know it was this bad.

WHAT in the HELL has Royal PROVEN? That he drops crucial balls, doesn't get both feet down in the endzone when there was plenty of room, commits holding penalties that KILL crucial drives.

The only thing PROVEN about Royal is he's a BUM!

[acehole]

TE has already shown he can make big plays and difficult throws. What he needs to work on is consistency. I feel bad for the guy that every time he throws something into the flats the hate mongors are going to come out and complain about the dink and dunk.

He has also shown INt's and an inability to find the red zone.

Let see which qb shows up...

I dont mind the dink and dunk ...he can run it all day if it results in pionts.

Isnt that the piont of an offense?

I am less worried about Trent then our D anyway.

We cant win many games when teams can run and pass at will.

[justasportsfan]

TE has already shown he can make big plays and difficult throws. What he needs to work on is consistency. this is why he shouldn't just be annointed the job until he shows consitency. On the other hand guys like Trapezeus are willing to go into the season with him as the qb without a back up plan. :coocoo:


I feel bad for the guy that every time he throws something into the flats the hate mongors are going to come out and complain about the dink and dunk.
boohoo! Cry me a river. Did you cry for Holcomb when all he did was dink and dunk the ball? All Trent showed so far is that he's not different than Holcomb except, "he has potential " which I agree with. Otherwise he's just another Holcomb at this point.

[Typ0]

this is why he shouldn't just be annointed the job until he shows consitency. On the other hand guys like Trapezeus are willing to go into the season with him as the qb without a back up plan. :coocoo:


when the back up plan is a proven loser it isn't much of a back up plan.

[justasportsfan]

when the back up plan is a proven loser it isn't much of a back up plan.
If he's a loser then that makes our qb a loser who hasn't proven squat either . He hasn't even proven to do any better than what the back up did in 06.

Unlike the Trent lickers here, I wasn't sold on JP ( until now) after 06 and I sure am not sold on Trent either. If Trent fails and we don't make playoffs , it's fans like you that deserve not making playoffs in this decade. You'll just throw Trent under the bus and then wait for another qb because it's all the qb's fault and no one else's. :poop:

[Typ0]

If he's a loser then that makes our qb a loser who hasn't proven squat either . He hasn't even proven to do any better than what the back up did in 06.

Unlike the Trent lickers here, I wasn't sold on JP ( until now) after 06 and I sure am not sold on Trent either. If Trent fails and we don't make playoffs , it's fans like you that deserve not making playoffs in this decade. You'll just throw Trent under the bus and then wait for another qb because it's all the qb's fault and no one else's. :poop:


sorry Justa....if TE has not shown growth and progression after four years in the league I'll feel the same way about him and rightly so. I'm not throwing him under the bus. He gets a chance but we're not going to ignore what he's doing in hopes that he'll pan out either.

[Typ0]

I don't know why we can't just put this arguement to bed.

TE is going to get his chance.

Time will tell on JP. If, in five years he's a starter and successful then we missed an opportunity with him. On the other hand, if he's riding the pine or not playing at all we did the right thing by dumping him.

[HHURRICANE]

this is why he shouldn't just be annointed the job until he shows consitency. On the other hand guys like Trapezeus are willing to go into the season with him as the qb without a back up plan.

Now I'm confused. Are you suggesting an open competition? That makes no sense.

[trapezeus]

Now I'm confused. Are you suggesting an open competition? That makes no sense.

justa, you have to be kidding me. i have said a thousand times that i recognize the value of a backup quarterback. i just don't think JP has it in him. he isn't a qb at any level in the NFL for my taste. he is a proven failure in the nfl under several coaches, players and lines. and when you can actually compare Trent to JP, Trent played the same and at times better than JP. So while that is not the most encouraging thing to go through again, i believe trent as more upside. In four years, i find it hard to believe that he'll be out played by a rookie. and that's not to speak highly of trent, it's just no 4year vet QB should be given a run by a rookie QB with the same players and coaches.

if the bills want to bring in QB's that they feel are better than Trent, bring them in and lets have a competition. but JP has proven he can't compete. You can make excuses for him, but look at Costanzo and chambers. no one makes excuses for them. they just arent very good. so why give jp a different standard. you want to start you have to rise above and play. but you want to remove every poor performance which out number his good performances and say, "look at that 1 game in houston where he won the game, but forget the other 29 where is plain out looked like a lost puppy."

And if you want to keep telling yourself that i'm contradicting myself, then you have a lot to learn. and i recommend not taking your first introductory classes to "who should not be a starter in the NFL 101" from acehole.

Perhaps that

[acehole]

I don't know why we can't just put this arguement to bed.

TE is going to get his chance.

Time will tell on JP. If, in five years he's a starter and successful then we missed an opportunity with him. On the other hand, if he's riding the pine or not playing at all we did the right thing by dumping him.

I don't know why we can't just put this arguement to bed.

JP is going to get his chance.

Time will tell on TE. If, in five years he's a starter and successful then we missed an opportunity with him. On the other hand, if he's riding the pine or not playing at all we did the right thing by dumping him.
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[acehole]

You are not fit to shine my shoes boy.

From a debate or football stand piont.

Insults prove you are frustrated and can't compete in the arena of ideas.

Just put me on ignore like the rest of people who dont like the blow torch of truth and reality blasting in there ears.



justa, you have to be kidding me. i have said a thousand times that i recognize the value of a backup quarterback. i just don't think JP has it in him. he isn't a qb at any level in the NFL for my taste. he is a proven failure in the nfl under several coaches, players and lines. and when you can actually compare Trent to JP, Trent played the same and at times better than JP. So while that is not the most encouraging thing to go through again, i believe trent as more upside. In four years, i find it hard to believe that he'll be out played by a rookie. and that's not to speak highly of trent, it's just no 4year vet QB should be given a run by a rookie QB with the same players and coaches.

if the bills want to bring in QB's that they feel are better than Trent, bring them in and lets have a competition. but JP has proven he can't compete. You can make excuses for him, but look at Costanzo and chambers. no one makes excuses for them. they just arent very good. so why give jp a different standard. you want to start you have to rise above and play. but you want to remove every poor performance which out number his good performances and say, "look at that 1 game in houston where he won the game, but forget the other 29 where is plain out looked like a lost puppy."

And if you want to keep telling yourself that i'm contradicting myself, then you have a lot to learn. and i recommend not taking your first introductory classes to "who should not be a starter in the NFL 101" from acehole.

Perhaps that

[acehole]

Now I'm confused. Are you suggesting an open competition? That makes no sense.

Juron has allway said every job is an open.....

Why cant we?

Hell I would love if Ellis beat out shobell.

Is this why we dont want JP here?

He just might outplay Trent again?

[Captain gameboy]

I get such a kick out of these JP/TE discussions.

There is a reason why the depth chart is the way it is at the QB position.

JP is where he is because he put himself there, not because the surrounding cast was better/worse, or younger/more experienced.
JP misses a lot of short stuff, and he has since his rookie pre season games.
I liked the guy a lot, but I noticed it right away, as did everyone else.

Trent probably makes those throws with greater reliability.

This rumor that he can't make the same long throws has yet to be validated.
Watch the youtube of the Miami home game.
Remember the long ball that hit Evans in full stride?
Was that good enough?
How about the Lee Evans touchdown in the corner? The one that was initially ruled incomplete and then reversed. It was an absolutely perfect throw.

Its TE's job to lose, because the staff thinks he is better.
Nothing complicated about that.

[justasportsfan]

justa, you have to be kidding me. haha! Didn't bother reading the rest of his posts after this. Trap can't even read my posts from under that rock he's hiding from and going by HH's posts that's usually off. Talk about the blind leading the blind. :snicker:

[justasportsfan]

sorry Justa....if TE has not shown growth and progression after four years in the league I'll feel the same way about him and rightly so. I'm not throwing him under the bus. He gets a chance but we're not going to ignore what he's doing in hopes that he'll pan out either.again, if you think Mularkey and no OL and no weapons is a way to develop a qb you're clueless. NO QB could've thrived here under the same circumstances JP was in over those years. If you think otherwise, you're cluless again.

[feelthepain]

Oh please!

He was chuckin the pig all over the place against Dallas.

23/31 for 176 yards and an INT is "chukin it all over the place"?

Heck Romo threw 5 INT's and still managed over 300 yards against the Bills.