Why RW doesn't sell the naming rights...

[Jeff1220]

A few weeks ago, we were trying to figure out the naming rights situation, and if they could do it since the stadium technically belongs to the county. I emailed Chris Brown about it and I just now got a reply. He was actually quite candid...

My question:


Is selling the naming rights even an option for the team even though they don't own the stadium?
Since Erie County technically owns it, wouldn't they be the ones to sell/profit from any revenue created by selling the rights to their stadium?
If it is possible for the team, have they looked into it at all?


Chris Brown's reply:


The Bills would be able to pull in revenue from naming rights even though the stadium is county owned. Mr. Wilson's stance is that he doesn't believe it would be very lucrative in this market and secondly feels any revenues will only serve to drive up the salary cap further. You can make your own judgments on those arguments. That's probably not a good answer, but it's the best I can do.


So they can sell it, but RW's stance is that creating more money in a way such as this will just perpetuate the growth of the cap.

[Jan Reimers]

Then Ralph should give free tickets, free luxury boxes, free parking, free beer and hot dogs, and free merchandise. Then he wouldn't have to worry about any of that pesky revenue driving up the salary cap.

[Pride]

Ralph is the old guy in the corner... quietly (and not so quietly at times) bucking the broken system.

:bf1: Ralph

[Pride]

Then Ralph should give free tickets, free luxury boxes, free parking, free beer and hot dogs, and free merchandise. Then he wouldn't have to worry about any of that pesky revenue driving up the salary cap.

He pretty much does this already. Hard to argue this point when we have the lowest ticket prices in the league!

[dasaybz]

Hats off to Ralph for having a hard stance on this issue. He doesn't want any part of this new regime of owners.

[Aero II]

Sell the naming rights to Rich Food Products.

[madness]

Ralph is the old guy in the corner... quietly (and not so quietly at times) bucking the broken system.

:bf1: Ralph

:goodpost:

[Jan Reimers]

Sell the naming rights to Rich Food Products.
We've already done that.

[Dozerdog]

Very odd stance by Ralph.

He had no problem selling the rights to the Rich food corporation when they built the place. But now selling the rights infringes on his "I'm poor" arguments.

Meanwhile, he sells 10 home games for $79.5 million.

[TacklingDummy]

Then Ralph should give free tickets, free luxury boxes, free parking, free beer and hot dogs, and free merchandise. Then he wouldn't have to worry about any of that pesky revenue driving up the salary cap.

Compared to the rest of the NFL he does.

[Pride]

Very odd stance by Ralph.

He had no problem selling the rights to the Rich food corporation when they built the place. But now selling the rights infringes on his "I'm poor" arguments.


Wasn't that before the adoption of a Salary Cap and Revenue Sharing?

[Dozerdog]

Wasn't that before the adoption of a Salary Cap and Revenue Sharing?...and before everyone sold naming rights.


It was Rich Stadium and Schaefer Stadium (Pats) in the early 1970's. Rich bought the rights for a really cheap 2 million a year.

But the 80 million for the toronto games? I bet he doesn't have to share that revenue

[Pride]

Why wouldn't he?

[Jan Reimers]

Wasn't that before the adoption of a Salary Cap and Revenue Sharing?
So Ralph is going to turn down all future sources of revenue because they might lead to increases in the Salary Cap?

That's one of the most disingenuous arguments I have ever encountered.

[raphael120]

So in that same vein, shouldn't he have not done the Toronto thing because that makes money and in turn drives up the cap? Doesn't make sence. It's all because he is an egomaniac and wants his name on the damn stadium. Which is fine, but his legacy isn't a great one...lets hope he can finish out his time on this earth with a bang. Got a lot of making up to do for the past 8 seasons.

[RockStar36]

Without getting into what the hell he is saying, I like the fact that the stadium isn't a corporate name. I personally can't stand all these dumb stadium names anymore.

[Aero II]

We've already done that.

And wasn't it awesome?

[clumping platelets]

Ralph is full of............

The impact on the salary cap by adding the revenue from the naming rights would be minimal. It would increase the overall cap essentially: amount per year / 32 teams

so if the naming rights was $2 million a year, divide that amount by 32 = a whopping $62,500

[clumping platelets]

Also, the Bills do NOT spend to the cap technically if they are using the "LTBE loophole" that transfers unused cap space to the following year

[El Guapo]

Face it, Ralph just likes to see his name on the side. It's not a money issue at all...

[TacklingDummy]

What companies have offered to buy the naming rights?

Let's not fool ourselves. If someone offered $2 million dollars per year for naming rights the name would be changed by now.

[yordad]

Let me get this straight, he doesn't sell the name because he wants to help prove he is poor? :headscrat

[NC-BILLS44]

Rich Stadium was a result of the first stadium naming rights deal. Funny that Ralph started the whole thing and now doesn't want to do it again.

http://www.namingrightsonline.com/history.htm

1972: Rich Products Corporation acquires the naming rights for Buffalo's new NFL stadium for $1.5 million over 25 years. The first corporate naming rights deal ever generates tremendous controversy and the first-ever lawsuit.

1979: Syracuse-based Carrier Corporation acquires the naming rights for Syracuse University's new domed facility for a reported one-time $2.75 million payment. The deal is the first for a domed facility and for a college venue.

1986: Pilot Air Freight acquires the naming rights for Buffalo's new class-AAA minor league baseball stadium for $1.02 million. The deal is the first for a minor league sports venue.

[justasportsfan]

Very odd stance by Ralph.

He had no problem selling the rights to the Rich food corporation when they built the place. But now selling the rights infringes on his "I'm poor" arguments.

Meanwhile, he sells 10 home games for $79.5 million.Haha! Good ol Ralphy.

Maybe he wasn't saying "I'm poor" but " WNY bills fans are poor" :idunno:

[trapezeus]

i'd love to see if the stadium was named "Buffalo Stadium" or "Erie County Stadium" if Ralph's answer would still be the same.

[lordofgun]

I don't buy it. He wouldn't have built extra luxury suites if he was worried that the team making more money would drive up the Salary Cap.

[Historian]

I agree....it's about ego.

The first thing the county should do is take his name off the stadium and the barn after he passes.

[Michael82]

What a load of crap! :ill:

[YardRat]

Very odd stance by Ralph.

He had no problem selling the rights to the Rich food corporation when they built the place. But now selling the rights infringes on his "I'm poor" arguments.

Meanwhile, he sells 10 home games for $79.5 million.

Actually I was corrected on this 'fact' a couple of weeks ago....Erie County sold the naming rights to the stadium, not RW and the Bills.

[cba fan]

Actually I was corrected on this 'fact' a couple of weeks ago....Erie County sold the naming rights to the stadium, not RW and the Bills.
I believe I was the one who corrected you.

Also FYI to Dozerdog

The county got the money from the Rich Products deal. Ralph was against it from the start. That first sentence plus the fact Ralph's name is on the stadium now probably answers why he was against the Rich deal more so then the moral high ground Ralph tries to walk now through his employees no less. I don't recall any comment from Ralph about how he came to name the Bills stadium after himself.

Ralph would get all the money if he sold the rights now. He negotiated and was given the rights to the naming rights in the last lease negotiations.

Here is the million dollar question..... If Ralph is against the naming rights of stadiums why did he negotiate for the naming rights and in effect sell the naming rights to himself by forgoing the millions he does not now get from a corp sponsor.

Exhibit A; Jacobs Field Cleveland OH. Indians play here. The owner of the Indians, Mr Jacobs, at the time of construction purchased the naming rights and placed his name on the stadium. Paid millions to have this done.(recently changed to Progressive Field)

What is different about Ralph putting his name on the Bills stadium. Only difference is he does not take in the millions a corp would pay.

Ralph Wilson Stadium is a naming rights deal.

[DrGraves]

ralph is a douche, im sorry. i said it.

[Goobylal]

I believe I was the one who corrected you.

Also FYI to Dozerdog

The county got the money from the Rich Products deal. Ralph was against it from the start. That first sentence plus the fact Ralph's name is on the stadium now probably answers why he was against the Rich deal more so then the moral high ground Ralph tries to walk now through his employees no less. I don't recall any comment from Ralph about how he came to name the Bills stadium after himself.

Ralph would get all the money if he sold the rights now. He negotiated and was given the rights to the naming rights in the last lease negotiations.

Here is the million dollar question..... If Ralph is against the naming rights of stadiums why did he negotiate for the naming rights and in effect sell the naming rights to himself by forgoing the millions he does not now get from a corp sponsor.

Exhibit A; Jacobs Field Cleveland OH. Indians play here. The owner of the Indians, Mr Jacobs, at the time of construction purchased the naming rights and placed his name on the stadium. Paid millions to have this done.(recently changed to Progressive Field)

What is different about Ralph putting his name on the Bills stadium. Only difference is he does not take in the millions a corp would pay.

Ralph Wilson Stadium is a naming rights deal.
The county named the stadium, in honor of Ralph. He didn't name it himself.

I just don't see why Bills fans are whining like little schoolgirls about this issue. The paltry $1-1.5M Ralph would see from it would mean little in the grand scheme. What hurts most is a horrible CBA that the owners were foolish to sign and are now just realizing was a bad deal. So Ralph tells them "it's your CBA, give me some of that money you were all too willing to give the players."

[HHURRICANE]

Then Ralph should give free tickets, free luxury boxes, free parking, free beer and hot dogs, and free merchandise. Then he wouldn't have to worry about any of that pesky revenue driving up the salary cap.

Can we end the thread here and move it to the front page.

What an awesome post.

Right on!!!!

[theanswer74]

Ralph is full of............

The impact on the salary cap by adding the revenue from the naming rights would be minimal. It would increase the overall cap essentially: amount per year / 32 teams

so if the naming rights was $2 million a year, divide that amount by 32 = a whopping $62,500

Would it be wrong to think if Ralph Wilson generated more revenue by selling the naming rights that the Bills would qualify for less shared revenue?

[chernobylwraiths]

...and before everyone sold naming rights.


It was Rich Stadium and Schaefer Stadium (Pats) in the early 1970's. Rich bought the rights for a really cheap 2 million a year.

But the 80 million for the toronto games? I bet he doesn't have to share that revenue

I believe the deal was $1.5 million for 25 years. In 73 that would have been quite a bit of money for something so trivial.

But 2 million a year sounds better. It makes Ralph look that much more stupid.

[chernobylwraiths]

I don't buy it. He wouldn't have built extra luxury suites if he was worried that the team making more money would drive up the Salary Cap.

Aren't luxury boxes part of non shared revenue?

[cba fan]

The county named the stadium, in honor of Ralph. He didn't name it himself.

I just don't see why Bills fans are whining like little schoolgirls about this issue. The paltry $1-1.5M Ralph would see from it would mean little in the grand scheme.

The county did not name the stadium. Ralph and the Bills own the naming rights. Given to them in the last lease negotiations. The year Flutie took over for injured Rob Johnson and played well. Beating Jacksonville on busted play naked bootleg etc etc....

The stadium was called Bills Stadium at Orchard Park the first year after the Rich deal expired. There was no fan push or county push or other push to put Ralph's name up in lights. As fans debated the coming corp name deal and waited wondering if it might be Hunter Field on the interim or permanently, the name Ralph Wilson mysteriously appeared on the stadium one day and the team and Ralph had no comments about it, no ceremony, no unveiling etc etc.......

If the county named the stadium to "HONOR" Ralph they sure would have made a big deal out of it and had a grand ceremony at first game as RWS. They did not for reasons I stated above.

Call the county they will tell you they did not name the stadium. All rights were given to Ralph and Ralph owns them.

As I said Ralph Wilson is a naming rights deal. Ralph's family business is Ralph Wilson Enterprises. He also owns the Bills. Either he is pimping his business or pimping the Bills. That is a naming rights deal.

By the way, if 1.5 million is such a paltry number why can't I get a huge reduction in my season tickets. They are less than $400.00. Bills surely do not need that if they do not need 1.5 million per year.

[chernobylwraiths]

The county did not name the stadium. Ralph and the Bills own the naming rights. Given to them in the last lease negotiations. The year Flutie took over for injured Rob Johnson and played well. Beating Jacksonville on busted play naked bootleg etc etc....

The stadium was called Bills Stadium at Orchard Park the first year after the Rich deal expired. There was no fan push or county push or other push to put Ralph's name up in lights. As fans debated the coming corp name deal and waited wondering if it might be Hunter Field on the interim or permanently, the name Ralph Wilson mysteriously appeared on the stadium one day and the team and Ralph had no comments about it, no ceremony, no unveiling etc etc.......

If the county named the stadium to "HONOR" Ralph they sure would have made a big deal out of it and had a grand ceremony at first game as RWS. They did not for reasons I stated above.

Call the county they will tell you they did not name the stadium. All rights were given to Ralph and Ralph owns them.

As I said Ralph Wilson is a naming rights deal. Ralph's family business is Ralph Wilson Enterprises. He also owns the Bills. Either he is pimping his business or pimping the Bills. That is a naming rights deal.

By the way, if 1.5 million is such a paltry number why can't I get a huge reduction in my season tickets. They are less than $400.00. Bills surely do not need that if they do not need 1.5 million per year.

So, the lowest or close the the lowest priced tickets in the NFL isn't enough for you huh?

[Goobylal]

The county did not name the stadium. Ralph and the Bills own the naming rights. Given to them in the last lease negotiations. The year Flutie took over for injured Rob Johnson and played well. Beating Jacksonville on busted play naked bootleg etc etc....

The stadium was called Bills Stadium at Orchard Park the first year after the Rich deal expired. There was no fan push or county push or other push to put Ralph's name up in lights. As fans debated the coming corp name deal and waited wondering if it might be Hunter Field on the interim or permanently, the name Ralph Wilson mysteriously appeared on the stadium one day and the team and Ralph had no comments about it, no ceremony, no unveiling etc etc.......

If the county named the stadium to "HONOR" Ralph they sure would have made a big deal out of it and had a grand ceremony at first game as RWS. They did not for reasons I stated above.

Call the county they will tell you they did not name the stadium. All rights were given to Ralph and Ralph owns them.
Do you have that number handy? I'd like to give them a call and find out firsthand. It's not that I don't trust you but...I don't trust you.


As I said Ralph Wilson is a naming rights deal. Ralph's family business is Ralph Wilson Enterprises. He also owns the Bills. Either he is pimping his business or pimping the Bills. That is a naming rights deal.

By the way, if 1.5 million is such a paltry number why can't I get a huge reduction in my season tickets. They are less than $400.00. Bills surely do not need that if they do not need 1.5 million per year.
What does one have to do with the other? If Ralph were to sell naming rights for $1.5M, it's not like he'd reduce ticket prices.

So again, why all the biyatching about Ralph not selling naming rights? How does it affect you personally? The answer is, it doesn't.

[cba fan]

So, the lowest or close the the lowest priced tickets in the NFL isn't enough for you huh?
My quote was sarcasm, however, to talk seriously about it.......

If Ralph does not need the money he could get from naming rights. Why would he need my $400.00.

It would be like owning a business and turning down a deal the company is able to do to pave 100 miles of interstate highways, and instead bust my hump to get as many $500.00 sidewalk jobs I can get in my local city.

It does not add up. Never will.

[cba fan]

Do you have that number handy? I'd like to give them a call and find out firsthand. It's not that I don't trust you but...I don't trust you.

two words: phone book


What does one have to do with the other? If Ralph were to sell naming rights for $1.5M, it's not like he'd reduce ticket prices.

huh? Who said anything about reducing the lowest price tix in NFL? Why would he reduce tix prices if he sold naming rights. My comment on getting free tix was sarcasm but a good question maybe you can answer. If he doe not need 1.5 million, why does he need my $400.00?


So again, why all the *****ing about Ralph not selling naming rights? How does it affect you personally? The answer is, it doesn't. I am a diehard Bills fan. Ralph is not maximizing his income potential and this puts the future of the Bills franchise in peril. Which puts my entertainment of NFL in peril. Not to mention it makes his poverty plea(which has very good merit with the very bad cba) moot to the other owners like Jones and Snyder and Kraft who do max their income. Not to mention the Bills are tax supported by all who pay taxes in area. Not to mention the severe detrimental effect a Bills move would have on Buffalo.

[YardRat]

Ralph is full of............

The impact on the salary cap by adding the revenue from the naming rights would be minimal. It would increase the overall cap essentially: amount per year / 32 teams

so if the naming rights was $2 million a year, divide that amount by 32 = a whopping $62,500

I think it would actually be less, wouldn't it, since only a certain percentage of revenues is designated for the cap (58%)?

Wouldn't the equation actually be amount per year/32 teams x 58% ?

[YardRat]

Not to mention it makes his poverty plea(which has very good merit with the very bad cba) moot to the other owners like Jones and Snyder and Kraft who do max their income.

Not to mention Jones and Co. also maximize their debt.

They need a higher cap, so they can spend more money on name players, so they can sell their product, so they can increase their income, so they can pay their bills.

It shouldn't be the rest of the league's responsibility to pay off Jerry's, Dan's, and Bob's 'credit card's'.

[cba fan]

Not to mention Jones and Co. also maximize their debt.

They need a higher cap, so they can spend more money on name players, so they can sell their product, so they can increase their income, so they can pay their bills.

It shouldn't be the rest of the league's responsibility to pay off Jerry's, Dan's, and Bob's 'credit card's'.

What does this have to do with Ralph selling naming rights? Ralph would profit much more with the naming money than he would have to put out extra for the salary cap. Take into account Bills will not spend up to the cap with the "cash to cap budget" and it is even more of a no brainer to sell naming rights.

[cba fan]

Do you have that number handy? I'd like to give them a call and find out firsthand. It's not that I don't trust you but...I don't trust you.

link = city-view.com
Quote:
Currently, this is some of what our contract looks like with Ralph Wilson stadium:
Quote:
4.1 General Right to Receive Revenue Generated at the Stadium Complex.
Quote:
Subject to the terms and conditions of this Stadium Lease, and, in particular Article 2 and Article 4, during the Term, the Bills shall have the exclusive right to contract for, collect, receive and retain all income and revenues of whatever kind or nature realized by, from or in connection with the Stadium Complex, including, without limitation, all revenues, royalties, license fees, concession fees and income and receipts arising from (a) the sale or distribution of admission tickets to Games and Bills’ Events (including admission tickets to Club Level Seats, Luxury Suites and general admission seats); (b) the naming of, or the sale, lease or license of the right to name the Stadium Complex or any portion thereof; (c) the sale, lease or license of the Advertising Rights, including Signage; (d) the sale, lease or license of the Broadcast Rights; (e) the sale of food and beverages at the Stadium Complex; (f) the operation of the Parking Areas; (g) the sale of merchandise, programs and other goods and wares of any nature whatsoever at the Stadium Complex; and (h) the use of Luxury Suites and Club Level Seats. Nothing contained herein or elsewhere in the Stadium Agreements shall be construed as a limitation or curtailment of the general regulatory or police powers of the County or any other Governmental Authority. It is further acknowledged and agreed that the rights of the Bills pursuant to this Article 4 (including, without limitation, any contract entered by the Bills pursuant to this Article 4): (a) shall expire at the end of the Term (regardless of whether the Term ends by reason of the attainment of the Stadium Lease Expiration Date or the earlier termination or cancellation thereof); and (b) shall be subject to Applicable Law (including any obligation imposed on the Bills under Applicable Law to collect and remit all required sales and use taxes).
Quote:
ARTICLE 9 OPERATION OF THE STADIUM COMPLEX
(a) Operate, repair and maintain the Stadium Complex or cause the Stadium Complex to be operated, repaired and maintained in good condition and repair and otherwise in accordance with Applicable Law and NFL Rules and Regulations, normal wear and tear and the Structural Repair obligations of the County pursuant to Section 10.1 of this Stadium Lease and Section 7.1 of the Master Lease excepted;
(b) Establish and implement an annual preventative maintenance program for the Stadium Complex reasonably satisfactory to the ECSC and the County which shall have as its principal objective minimization of Structural Repairs and Operating Expenses;
end Quote.

Ralph owns the rights 100%.

[Goobylal]

huh? Who said anything about reducing the lowest price tix in NFL? Why would he reduce tix prices if he sold naming rights. My comment on getting free tix was sarcasm but a good question maybe you can answer. If he doe not need 1.5 million, why does he need my $400.00?
Why does he need $400 from you? Because if you got them for free, everyone would want them for free. That's a pretty obvious answer.


I am a diehard Bills fan. Ralph is not maximizing his income potential and this puts the future of the Bills franchise in peril. Which puts my entertainment of NFL in peril. Not to mention it makes his poverty plea(which has very good merit with the very bad cba) moot to the other owners like Jones and Snyder and Kraft who do max their income. Not to mention the Bills are tax supported by all who pay taxes in area. Not to mention the severe detrimental effect a Bills move would have on Buffalo.
Ralph not putting $1.5M in his pocket doesn't affect you or I in any way, shape, or form. IOW, it won't be one of the top 10 reasons the Bills leave Buffalo. What will be the main reason is the CBA that the aforementioned Jones, Snyder, and Kraft conned the other owners into signing, but which they are now, a scant 2 years after signing it and hailing it as a great thing, saying was a bad deal (gee Jerry, Danny, and Bobby, who told you that 2 years ago?). Another is the value of the team, in the face of a fanbase that cannot afford the prices it would take to support the team after it's sold.

Frankly, I could give a rip about what Jerry Jones et al think. Jones didn't sell naming rights to "Texas Stadium" so he's a hypocrite. And he and the others were only too willing to give the players a 4.5% pay increase instead of sticking to their guns and getting half that. So Ralph cries poor after his pleas to not pass the CBA fell on deaf ears, saying "well if you're so willing to pay the players, pay ME as well!"

[YardRat]

What does this have to do with Ralph selling naming rights? Ralph would profit much more with the naming money than he would have to put out extra for the salary cap. Take into account Bills will not spend up to the cap with the "cash to cap budget" and it is even more of a no brainer to sell naming rights.

It has to do with your comment on Jones, et al, maximizing their income and the tangental inference to Wilson and the naming rights.

Theoretically, Ralph wouldn't make more money with the naming rights as I believe that income is included in the definition of gross revenue in the CBA. Players get the majority, almost 60%...That leaves Ralph roughly 40.

I also believe that as the cap ceiling goes higher, so does the floor...the minimum that has to be spent gets higher along with the maximum. Jones goes into debt for a new stadium, pushes for a higher salary cap so he can attract big names, and forces everybody else to pony uo more cash to at least meet the minimum.

Theoretically.

[cba fan]

Why does he need $400 from you? Because if you got them for free, everyone would want them for free. That's a pretty obvious answer. !"

Is it really that obvious? Continuing on with your logic about revenue. Theoretically Ralph could just forgo ALL income. Everything would be free and just reap a dollar for dollar replacement in the revenue sharing.(obviously NFL cba does not allow)


Ralph not putting $1.5M in his pocket doesn't affect you or I in any way, shape, or form. IOW, it won't be one of the top 10 reasons the Bills leave Buffalo. What will be the main reason is the CBA that the aforementioned Jones, Snyder, and Kraft conned the other owners into signing, but which they are now, a scant 2 years after signing it and hailing it as a great thing, saying was a bad deal (gee Jerry, Danny, and Bobby, who told you that 2 years ago?). Another is the value of the team, in the face of a fanbase that cannot afford the prices it would take to support the team after it's sold.

Frankly, I could give a rip about what Jerry Jones et al think. Jones didn't sell naming rights to "Texas Stadium" so he's a hypocrite. And he and the others were only too willing to give the players a 4.5% pay increase instead of sticking to their guns and getting half that. So Ralph cries poor after his pleas to not pass the CBA fell on deaf ears, saying "well if you're so willing to pay the players, pay ME as well!"

I see your points and agreed earlier the cba is terrible, however, turning down income I will never agree is a good idea. Especially one that cost nothing but the ink to sign a contract for.(name deal)

(Disclaimer: I am not a Jones fan)Jones did sell name rights to Texas Stadium in a roundabout way like the Cleveland Browns did. It started as selling quadrants of Texas Stadium to 4 corp. with prominent display with huge exterior banners on their respective sides, interior banners logo on tax in their quads etc etc. This brought in approx 8 million per year. Later Jones sold use of Texas Stadium trademark to Nike in a 20 million dollar deal. Also did same similar with Pepsi. Both also involved apparel rights and pouring rights. Not sure where that stands right now. Jones knew Texas Stadium was a marketable name in itself and basically played off that and sold it's use. Brilliant. He appeased his fans as vast majority feel the stadium name is revered and did not want Texas Stadium name changed. People in Texas are very very sensitive to anything with Texas in the name or the Texas flag or shape of the state. Rich stadium carried no such value.

Cleveland also did not want to sell the main name rights to the new stadium. They sold each entrance name rights to corp sponsors(4). Not sure of income.

[cba fan]

It has to do with your comment on Jones, et al, maximizing their income and the tangental inference to Wilson and the naming rights.

Theoretically, Ralph wouldn't make more money with the naming rights as I believe that income is included in the definition of gross revenue in the CBA. Players get the majority, almost 60%...That leaves Ralph roughly 40.

I also believe that as the cap ceiling goes higher, so does the floor...the minimum that has to be spent gets higher along with the maximum. Jones goes into debt for a new stadium, pushes for a higher salary cap so he can attract big names, and forces everybody else to pony uo more cash to at least meet the minimum.

Theoretically.
Theoretically, if I give you $5000.00 and you must pay 60% taxes on on April 15 that you can not avoid in any way plus pay another 5 or 6% due to some weird IRS tax table payable weekly from approx Sept. to Dec., would you be better off if I just did not give you the $5000.00?

Continuing on with your logic. Ralph should just forgo ALL income and give everything away free, then sit back and get a dollar for dollar match from the revenue sharing.(obviously NFL cba does not allow)

[cba fan]

I forgot to add that Jones signed Dr Pepper as a Texas Stadium sponsor to go along with Nike and Pepsi.

[Goobylal]

I forgot to add that Jones signed Dr Pepper as a Texas Stadium sponsor to go along with Nike and Pepsi.
Yeah, Jones bucked the deals the NFL had with Coke and made side-deals with Pepsi. He was the first "new guard" to start to make it all about each individual owner. And now you're at the ultimate end result: the return to a capless NFL. Hooray.

[cba fan]

That's all you got?......after I showed you proof Ralph owns the naming rights?

Weak. Very weak.

[Goobylal]

That's all you got?......after I showed you proof Ralph owns the naming rights?

Weak. Very weak.
Weak? Your only argument for why Ralph should sell naming rights is "it's not wise to leave money on the table." Again the $1.5M a year wouldn't even make the top-10 for reasons why the Bills might leave Buffalo and affects no one but Ralph. The main reason is the new CBA, which was pushed through by the aforementioned Jones, who broke ranks and started making the league more about the individual owners than the group. And once Jones' new stadium opens, the disparity between haves and have nots will only worsen.

[cba fan]

Weak? Your only argument for why Ralph should sell naming rights is "it's not wise to leave money on the table." Again the $1.5M a year wouldn't even make the top-10 for reasons why the Bills might leave Buffalo and affects no one but Ralph. The main reason is the new CBA, which was pushed through by the aforementioned Jones, who broke ranks and started making the league more about the individual owners than the group. And once Jones' new stadium opens, the disparity between haves and have nots will only worsen.
We agree on most of what you just posted.

Could you list the 10 reasons why the Bills will leave Buffalo that are higher on the list than the naming rights. Let's assume naming rights would go for 2.5 million a year. What 10 reasons are higher on the list and worth more than a income of 2.5 million a year? A income that cost nothing to produce. Sponsor gives the money and pays for new signs. No workers comp, no vacation, no insurance etc etc.....

Here is a thought.

Kevin Everett is walking today in large part due to the Miami project. Ralph Wilson donated reportedly over 1 million dollars to help the project and donates a grant every year. NFL had cut off funding in 2006 and now is sending $100,000 again.

If Ralph does not need the money from naming rights he could donate it to this cause and maybe more can be helped.

I will never admit leaving free money on the table is a good idea. If someone wants to give you money. You take it. And if you do not want it. You still take it and then give it to a cause that will benefit.

[Goobylal]

We agree on most of what you just posted.

Could you list the 10 reasons why the Bills will leave Buffalo that are higher on the list than the naming rights. Let's assume naming rights would go for 2.5 million a year. What 10 reasons are higher on the list and worth more than a income of 2.5 million a year? A income that cost nothing to produce. Sponsor gives the money and pays for new signs. No workers comp, no vacation, no insurance etc etc.....

By "not in the top 10," I'm trying to say it's not even a reason that the Bills would move from Buffalo, either now, or in the future after Ralph dies since a new owner probably would sell naming rights.


Here is a thought.

Kevin Everett is walking today in large part due to the Miami project. Ralph Wilson donated reportedly over 1 million dollars to help the project and donates a grant every year. NFL had cut off funding in 2006 and now is sending $100,000 again.

If Ralph does not need the money from naming rights he could donate it to this cause and maybe more can be helped.

I will never admit leaving free money on the table is a good idea. If someone wants to give you money. You take it. And if you do not want it. You still take it and then give it to a cause that will benefit.
I don't disagree that leaving money on the table isn't a good idea and could be put to use. But as I said above, it has nothing to do with the Bills staying in the area and only takes money out of Ralph's pockets.

[cba fan]

Looks like we are in alot of agreement and understand our difference on the few points. Thanks for your opinions they were well thought out.

[dasaybz]

If Ralph can't make money by selling the naming rights, then why do so many other teams across the league do it?

Am I missing something here?

[Goobylal]

Looks like we are in alot of agreement and understand our difference on the few points. Thanks for your opinions they were well thought out.
Likewise.

[Goobylal]

If Ralph can't make money by selling the naming rights, then why do so many other teams across the league do it?

Am I missing something here?
From my understanding, they wouldn't fetch a lot and Ralph doesn't like the idea of naming the stadium. He didn't like it when the rights were sold to the Riches 35 years ago and still doesn't. I can respect that, even though he's leaving free money on the table, but which in the grand scheme doesn't help or hurt the Bills financially. Remember that Ralph has ZERO debt related to the team, so anything he makes is gravy. And he only started sqauwking after the new CBA was signed.