A couple O-line questions....

[yordad]

I know these would be hard to answer, and only time will tell, but if anyone wants to share some thought on these questions, I am all ears.

First, I am interested in knowing what you guys think, or what you guys know, about Kirk Chambers. Opinions, facts, whatever. I know he was like the 53rd player to make the roster, but he is one play away from becoming really important at any time. Or isn't he?

How do you rate the move of cutting Pennington last year?

Is Whittle going to make it a healthy year and be the backup OT? Or is he going to be a starting FB? Or is he going to push and replace Fowler at C? Is he just second option at each?

Is Schouman a TE now, or still a "FB"? He was the H-back last year. NFL.com still has him listed at FB, but apparently the Bills have him at TE. He is 223 lbs, and is looking like a prime cut casualty at this point. He looked good in spot H-back duties, but if we go FB/TE he is kinda a ST player only. What do you think? Wouldn't an attempt at FB be better for him?

In your opinion, who is better, Courtney Anderson or Teyo Johnson? Matt Murphy or Tim Massaquoi? Or is Matt Murphy a tackle?

In that case, does Murphy beat out Chambers? Is Chambers this years Pennington?

Who will be our starting FB? Starting TE? When and where does Fine come into the picture? Soon at TE? Never at FB?


Thank you in advance for feedback.

[raphael120]

Quick answer.

They're all bums and won't have any impact this year unless it's the impact of them being kicked to the curb. Special teams guys, nothing more.

[yordad]

Quick answer.

They're all bums and won't have any impact this year unless it's the impact of them being kicked to the curb. Special teams guys, nothing more.So, who is the FB and TE? And, you just figure every player will stay healthy? And, with all the other similar threads up, why the quick answer to such a different line of questions?

[Lefty2985]

i though pennington cut was weird after a year of starting how bout duke preston?

[Mahdi]

Matt Murphy: He is being groomed as a tackle right now and they say he has great potential but obviously having not played the position before he is quite raw.

Courtney Anderson: I believe he is a bit more polished than Teyo Johnson as a TE. He is bigger and more consistent as a blocker. He can absolutely have a significant impact on the offense because he has the size, good speed and good hands. He just hasnt played on a decent offense yet in his career. Our weapons at WR and our solid OL and run game should allow him to reach his potential.

Teyo Johnson: Pretty much the same as I said above except that I think Teyo has a higher ceiling since he is a bit of a better athlete. But like I said a bit more raw than Anderson. Having him and Courtney on the field at the same time in 2 TE sets could be dangerous if they catch on with the offense quickly.

Massaquoi: Im betting he will be cut by camp.

[TigerJ]

First, I am interested in knowing what you guys think, or what you guys know, about Kirk Chambers. Opinions, facts, whatever. I know he was like the 53rd player to make the roster, but he is one play away from becoming really important at any time. Or isn't he? I was underwhelmed by Chambers when he played last season. I don't think he has much upside and I HOPE the Bills have a better option for reserve left tackle.


How do you rate the move of cutting Pennington last year? I was surprised. I thought he had some potential and I always like to see late draft choices succeed, but I didn't have that much of an emotional investment in him. It sounds to me line Demetrius Bell is a better athlete.


Is Whittle going to make it a healthy year and be the backup OT? Or is he going to be a starting FB? Or is he going to push and replace Fowler at C? Is he just second option at each? I think he's a second option. He's too small to upgrade the center position.


Is Schouman a TE now, or still a "FB"? He was the H-back last year. NFL.com still has him listed at FB, but apparently the Bills have him at TE. He is 223 lbs, and is looking like a prime cut casualty at this point. He looked good in spot H-back duties, but if we go FB/TE he is kinda a ST player only. What do you think? Wouldn't an attempt at FB be better for him?He's a likely cut. He has a better shot at FB, but a long shot to stay on the team.


In your opinion, who is better, Courtney Anderson or Teyo Johnson? Matt Murphy or Tim Massaquoi? Or is Matt Murphy a tackle? I think Murphy will switch to tackile. If he can get strong enough fast enough maybe he can make Kirk Chambers expendable. I think Teyo Johnson probably has the best combination of size, speed, and general athleticism in this group, but has to put it all together.


In that case, does Murphy beat out Chambers? Is Chambers this years Pennington? I hope so. I think Chambers is an evolutionary dead end.


Who will be our starting FB? Starting TE? When and where does Fine come into the picture? Soon at TE? Never at FB? I don't have enough of a crystal ball to prognosticate this. I think the FB will be one of the three pure FBs on the roster; Barnes, Evans, or Viti. Viti is the fan favorit but that won't factor in to the Bills choice. I'm not going to count Royal out of the TE competition. I'd like to see Teyo Johnson win it. I would be surpised if Fine wins it outright this season.

[EDS]

I think depth at o-line is still a major concern for the Bills. Chambers is definitely not the answer as a reserve tackle and Bell and Murphy are more then likely not ready for prime-time. I think if a injury forces either Peters or Walker to miss significant time Butler gets shifted to tackle and Whittle or Preston get time at guard.

At tight end I have a hard time believing any of the retreads the Bills brought in will unseat Royal as the number one guy, not because Royal is very good just because the other guys have had chances and did not take advantage. I thought Teyo was going to be a good player coming out of Stanford, so I would like to seem him make some noise, but won't count on it. As for Fine, I don't no whether he will make a difference or not, I guess he gets the third tight end slot based on draft status no matter what.

Full back I still don't think is a huge issue and one of the dudes will probably make the team and see sporadic playing time as a lead blocker.

[casdhf]

I don't think we'll keep a true FB on the roster. I'm guessing 4 TE/H-back type guys end up sticking. Schoenmann, Royal, Fine and either Anderson or Teyo.

I think Murphy is out of the TE picture. If he can't cut it at OT, then he'll just be cut.

[Jan Reimers]

I don't think we'll keep a true FB on the roster. I'm guessing 4 TE/H-back type guys end up sticking. Schoenmann, Royal, Fine and either Anderson or Teyo.

I think Murphy is out of the TE picture. If he can't cut it at OT, then he'll just be cut.
I don't think we'd have 3 true FBs on the roster - Barnes, J. Evans and Viti - if we weren't going to utilize that position. If none of them steps up, we might fall back to the HB/TE approach, but I believe Schonert likes a true FB.

As for the TEs, I think Fine will get some playing time as a good short yardage receiver and a guy who can find the seams in zone coverage. I would think Royal, Fine and either Anderson or Johnson would be our TEs. There is really no place for Schouman if we don't go with an H-back.

I think we have depth in the interior of the O-line with Whittle, Preston and perhaps Felton. Whittle, particularly, is a veteran G, but he won't replace Fowler or Butler. Maybe Felton is our C of the future. Where we really need depth help is at OT, where we are very thin. If Bell doesn't shine, I think we'll look for a veteran summer camp cut.

[yordad]

I know assessing lineman isn't exactly fun, and their job isn't all that glorious, but thanks guys. The more opinions you have the bigger picture you have.

I know it is early, but I can understand why most wouldn't want to tackle this thread. Lineman aren't the easiest to assess unless they suck. People are usually watching the football.

The more opinions the better. Plus, I wanted to talk about something different. And something other then Hardy, JP, or the Pats.

[John Doe]

I don't think we'd have 3 true FBs on the roster - Barnes, J. Evans and Viti - if we weren't going to utilize that position. If none of them steps up, we might fall back to the HB/TE approach, but I believe Schonert likes a true FB.

As for the TEs, I think Fine will get some playing time as a good short yardage receiver and a guy who can find the seams in zone coverage. I would think Royal, Fine and either Anderson or Johnson would be our TEs. There is really no place for Schouman if we don't go with an H-back.

I think we have depth in the interior of the O-line with Whittle, Preston and perhaps Felton. Whittle, particularly, is a veteran G, but he won't replace Fowler or Butler. Maybe Felton is our C of the future. Where we really need depth help is at OT, where we are very thin. If Bell doesn't shine, I think we'll look for a veteran summer camp cut.

I think that 3 fullbacks is 2 too many. Viti can be stashed on the practice squad with no problem - if it qualifies as a football contract in his Army agreement. Fine can be used there as well.

Fine will also be a key special teams player - it's a big bonus in his skill set. The other vets that they brought in better be able to contribute there as well. Schouman still has practice squad eligability unless he has put on some serious weight and muscle.

[Preacher]

With the speed of the defenses now a days... keeping a FB on the roster is silly unless you plan on getting a big back and running the three yards and a cloud of dust mentality offense.

While there may be use in the redzone for that type of player, do you really want someone taking up a roster spot all year for just a few plays?

If you keep a FB, he needs to be someone that can catch out of the backfield, block on pass plays, and have some speed as well... that way, while he is playing as a fullback, in reality, he can be used as a second halfback.

[Patti120]

With the speed of the defenses now a days... keeping a FB on the roster is silly unless you plan on getting a big back and running the three yards and a cloud of dust mentality offense.

While there may be use in the redzone for that type of player, do you really want someone taking up a roster spot all year for just a few plays?

If you keep a FB, he needs to be someone that can catch out of the backfield, block on pass plays, and have some speed as well... that way, while he is playing as a fullback, in reality, he can be used as a second halfback.

Good point. Doesn't seem like the FO has done much to get us a versatile FB. Then again it doesn't seem like they have done much to get us a versatile TE either so who knows.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I know these would be hard to answer, and only time will tell, but if anyone wants to share some thought on these questions, I am all ears.

First, I am interested in knowing what you guys think, or what you guys know, about Kirk Chambers. Opinions, facts, whatever. I know he was like the 53rd player to make the roster, but he is one play away from becoming really important at any time. Or isn't he?

OK. Here are my thoughts;

As far as Chambers is concerned: Right now I would have to say that he is the odds on favorite to be the primary back-up at OT.

Chambers surprised me by making the team last year and, perhaps because of that, I actually thought he did better than expected in the time that he played.

That being said, however, Chambers is nothing special as a back-up OT--ie he really isn't very good and you pray that the team doesn't have to rely on him filling in for a starter for very long (which is probably the case with the primary back-up OT for most teams in the NFL). The fact that Chambers made the team and did better than expected in his playing time indicates to me that he is a guy who has been improving (albeit from horrid to barely mediocre) and that the coaches like what they have seen from him. That being the case, if he continues to show improvement in his game, he is the most likely of the back-up OTs to make the active roster going into this season.

But, that doesn't mean that he is an absolute lock to make the team. Matt Murphy and Bell are both more athletic and the coaches seem to like the work ethic of Murphy and Nevin McCaskill (forgot about him, didn't you!?).

However, for Murphy to beat out Chambers, he is going to have to come into camp significantly bigger and without having lost his quickness. That's going to be tough for him to do. Having experience blocking on the NFL, Murphy has a shot to beat out Chambers, but, being older, it is going to be a long-shot. IMHO he will have to out-play Chambers in OTAs and TC to show the coaching staff that they can take the risk of going with a guy with no real experience at OT as their primary back-up OT.

Bell is so raw that I don't think that he has a shot at making the active roster, let alone supplanting Chambers, this season. IMHO, Bell was drafted as a developmental prospect that the coaches are hoping they can mold into doing things their way over the course of a year on the practice squad. If Bell works hard this year, I can see him, with his athleticism, possibly becoming a factor in the O-line mix going into the 2009 season, but I can't see that happening this season.

In my book, the dark-horse that may have a real shot at taking the job away from Chambers is McCaskill. I must confess that I haven't seen him play or practice, but, everytime his name comes up on the BB.com website or in media reports, he seems to be doing the kinds of things that get the coaches' attention: working out over the winter in Buffalo, participating in the rookie camp, doing this, doing that. If McCaskill shows that he has improved and can play some once the OTAs and TC start, I would give him a solid chance to beat out Chambers. Now, he is going to have to show that he can play better than Chambers, but he seems to be doing the little things and showing the work ethic that often gets a guy an opportunity to show what he can do.

I seriously doubt that the Bills will pick up an experienced OT to serve as a back-up OT once TC begins. If there is one thing that the Bills have shown since J.McNally took over as O-line coach it is that they would rather take an inexperienced or less polished O-lineman and "coach him up" and mold him into doing things their way than take a more experienced or polished player who already is set in his way of doing things. McNally may be retired, but Sean Kugler has already made it known that he is a McNally disciple who prefers to do things the same way as McNally.

I see the drafting of the raw, inexperienced, but athletic Demetrius Bell and the attempt to convert Matt Murphy from TE to OT as being a confirmation that the basic philosophy at OBD, in terms of developing O-linemen, is not going to change from what it has been (the signing of Felton--the interior lineman with experience playing all five line positions, but not being fully polished at any one of them--also is consistent with their recent philosophy of wanting versatile interior O-linemen as well).


How do you rate the move of cutting Pennington last year?

I was shocked by it. I thought that they liked Pennington a lot better than they obviously did.

I thought Pennington had the potential to develop into a decent--not spectacular, but decent--right tackle, given time, but the coaches must have seen something, either in his learning ability, physical/technical interaction, or his attitude that convinced them that he would not be able to do what they wanted him to do.

Because there is so much in line technique that we, as fans, don't really get to see, the fact that the Bills' coaches might have come to that conclusion about Pennington really isn't that surprising really--it's something that happens all of the time, with lots of different players at all positions. But, what shocked me was how suddenly the Bills' coaches seemed to lose confidence in Pennington and come to that conclusion. It was the swiftness of that which caught me unawares.

But, that also tells me that this coaching staff is not afraid to quickly cut ties with a player if they do not think that he can/will do what they want and they feel that they have an option to replace him. And, that leads me to conclude that we should not be surprised by any move that they might suddenly make with their role players or younger players--no matter what we fans might think of a player's potential, if they conclude that a player doesn't have the upside or ability to get the job done, they will have no qualms about cutting him (the cutting of A.Merz confirms this).

And, with it being so hard for us fans to judge what is going on with the back-up offensive linemen, I would not be surprised by any moves that this coaching staff might make this year.



Is Whittle going to make it a healthy year and be the backup OT? Or is he going to be a starting FB? Or is he going to push and replace Fowler at C? Is he just second option at each?

I know that a lot of Bills fans do not want to hear this, but I will say it yet again: Melvin Fowler isn't going anywhere and will be the starting center going into this season for the Buffalo Bills!!!

O-line coaches talk all of the time about the value of continuity on the offensive line and this is the first season in a very long time when the Bills will have a chance to start the same 5 offensive linemen that started most of their games for them last season. The Bills' coaches are NOT going to miss out on an opportunity to have some continuity on their offensive line going into this season--especially when their 5 starters set a team record last season for allowing the fewest sacks in a 16 game season. So, forget about Whittle or anyone else supplanting Fowler as the starting center.

Whittle out-performed Preston in preseason last year and is likely to do so again this year. Consequently, if he can stay healthy (offensive linemen get nicked up all the time, so there is no telling if any given player can stay healthy for a whole season), Whittle will probably be the primary back-up at all three of the interior line positions on Sundays, at least going into this season.

Whittle is not a FB, he has been an O-lineman his entire NFL career. And, he is more valuable as an experienced back-up at the three interior line positions than he would be as an inexperienced FB. Matt Murphy would have a better chance to see playing time at FB, but that's not going to happen either.

Depending on the progress of Christian Gaddis--who the coaches seem to like a lot--and what Felton shows in the OTAs and TC, having Whittle available going into this season could spell the end of Duke Preston's career with the Bills. Preston has shown nothing in four years, despite having every opportunity a young O-lineman could ask for, and is ripe to lose his job to an up-and-coming, younger O-lineman with greater upside.

Like Whittle and Preston, Gaddis now can play all three interior o-line positions and may well have worked his way up to being the primary back-up to Fowler at center. I haven't seen much of Gaddis, but, just given Preston's level of play, I expect that the Bills' coaches will give Gaddis every opportunity to challenge Preston for a spot on the final roster.

I like the Felton signing and think that he has the potential to develop into a player who can help the Bills. He's big, he's a mauler and he's versatile--all things the Bills seem to like in their offensive linemen. But, I would be very surprised if he makes the active roster this season. It is hard for offensive linemen to make the step up to the NFL as rookies--most take time to develop--and he was moved around so much in college that he will probably need more work than if he had just played one position all of the time. I think that it is likely that he and Bell will begin the season on the PS, but that he could work his way up quicker than Bell if he puts the effort into it.



Is Schouman a TE now, or still a "FB"? He was the H-back last year. NFL.com still has him listed at FB, but apparently the Bills have him at TE. He is 223 lbs, and is looking like a prime cut casualty at this point. He looked good in spot H-back duties, but if we go FB/TE he is kinda a ST player only. What do you think? Wouldn't an attempt at FB be better for him?


I know that it says that Schouman weighs 223 lbs on the BB.com website, but he weighed more than that going into last season and I would be surprised if that is not a mis-print. NFL.com has him listed at 247 lbs--which I think is what he weighed last year--and is more likely closer to what he weighs now.

While Schouman played H-back and served as a FB in the Bills offense last season, I think that he will be a TE in the Bills offense this season. Even though Schonert is going to be using a true FB in a two-back offense a lot this season, I don't think that he has ripped the plays using a H-back or "move" TE out of the Bills' playbook entirely.

For various reasons, a lot of NFL teams have been going over to using two-TE sets, and even 3-TE sets, in certain situations and against certain defenses. IMHO, the Bills will be doing that at times as well.

While Royal will probably be the starter and primary blocking TE--the same role that he had last season--and C.Anderson and D.Fine will fill the roles of M.Gaines and R.Neufeld, I see Schouman battling T.Johnson and T.Massaquoi for the 4th and/or perhaps 5th TE spot (depending on how many FBs they carry). And, because he does have some experience blocking out of the backfield, I think that Schouman does have a slight advantage over Johnson and Massaquoi in that battle because he can serve as a back-up to the FB should the Bills decide to carry only one FB on the active roster.

However, I see that battle coming down to which of those players shows the most in terms of receiving and ST, as well as blocking, abilities. Massaquoi has a bit of an advantage on STs, while Johnson may be the best pure athlete and receiver of the three. But, IMHO, it will come down to which one offers the most in terms of all three of those things. And, if that is the case, I give Schouman a chance to make the team again--particularly if the Bills keep 5 TEs.



In your opinion, who is better, Courtney Anderson or Teyo Johnson? Matt Murphy or Tim Massaquoi? Or is Matt Murphy a tackle?


As aforementioned and mentioned by others, Murphy is strictly an OT now and out of the TE mix.

Both Courtney Anderson and Teyo Johnson have been disappointments thus far in their careers. Both are big, athletic guys with speed who were supposed to come into the NFL and be the kind of TE that we Bills fans have been wanting the team to draft or otherwise acquire for years now. But, neither has lived up to the expectations thus far.

Anderson is bigger than Johnson. I was shocked to read that he is 280 lbs now when he signed with the Bills. At that size, he has an advantage over the Bills' other TEs as a potential run blocking TE, even though he doesn't have a reputation for being a devastating run blocker. Still, there is always a job for a big, run-blocking TE in the NFL. And, with his athleticism and size, I see Anderson as being the most likely to make the Bills' roster after Royal and Fine.

Teyo Johnson has been a mystery to a lot of people since he came into the league. A former WR, he has the speed and hands to be a real weapon at TE. But, he has never put it all together. And, who knows if he will with the Bills? If he finally does, he could really be a tremendous asset to the team. But, if he doesn't, he could end up being just camp fodder. Which it will be is as much of a mystery right now as his NFL career has been up to this point. We will see in July and August.

Massaquoi is strictly a special teams player. He was an OK receiver, who made the occasional big catch at Michigan, but only a so-so blocker in college. For the most part he has shown hands of stone in the NFL, but has developed into a pretty good special teams player. He didn't show much for the Bills after they picked him up last season with all of the injuries, but his ability on special teams gives him a shot to make the Bills roster with all of the losses that they have suffered on STs this offseason. Personally, I think he should be the "odd-man out", but that also depends on what Johnson and Schouman show in the OTAs and TC.



In that case, does Murphy beat out Chambers? Is Chambers this years Pennington?

See my comments above. I'd be surprised, not entirely shocked if Murphy beat out Chambers, although I think McCaskill has a better shot at doing that.

And, yes, Chambers could be this year's Pennington, but right now I think the odds are against that, although I wouldn't be even surprised much if it turned out that way.



Who will be our starting FB? Starting TE? When and where does Fine come into the picture? Soon at TE? Never at FB?

Barnes or Evans will be the starting FB.

Barnes has experience and was not a bad blocking FB for the Jets. But, the Bills have been developing Evans and in the past have shown a preference for players that they have developed themselves over vets from other teams, so I think Evans may have a slight advantage, if he can show that he can do the job as well as Barnes in the OTAs and TC.

I give Viti an outside shot at challenging for the spot, but think it is more likely that he will end up on the PS, if his Army contract permits, with the Bills carrying only one FB on the active roster at the start of the season and Schouman serving as the "emergency" FB should the starter get hurt during a game (as happened with Shelton a couple of years ago).

Odds are extremely high that Royal will be the starting TE again (assuming that he is fully recovered from the injury that hampered him last season). Even if Royal isn't the great receiving threat that we would all like the Bills to have at the starting TE spot, he is the best, most experienced, all-around TE on the roster right now--and that's what the coaches want from their starting TE.

Fine is a TE, not a FB--he played as an H-back at times, but not as a FB at Kansas (which had a FB that they used at times) in college.

Fine is also a rookie. Rookies almost always need time to adjust to playing in the NFL--and in recent years this has applied to TEs (see Vernon Davis, K.Winslow, etc.). So, it is highly unlikely that Fine is going to step in and win the starting job at TE from experienced veterans like Royal--who the coaches like a lot more than the fans--or C.Anderson right away.

Still, depending on what C.Anderson and T.Johnson show--and, in this regard, keep in mind that both have been disappointments thus far in their careers, so there is no guarantee that either or both will show that much with the Bills--Fine will have a role to play with the Bills this season. And, it could be a big one.

If Anderson and/or Johnson suddenly blossom this season for the Bills, Fine could get eased into action slowly--much in the way that Cieslak and Schouman were slowly given playing time after a stint on the PS (although I doubt that the Bills will put Fine on the PS)--and begin to play a role in the Bills offense in the second half of the season in spot duty, particularly down around the goal line or in short yardage situations.

More likely, however, either Anderson or Johnson will fail to meet expectations and end up getting cut or demoted on the depth chart, with Fine moving up to the # 3 TE spot early on in the season or by the start of the season. In that role, he will see action in short-yardage and some goal-line situations right away.

If Anderson and Johnson don't prove to be any better playing for the Bills than they have been thus far in their careers, though, Fine will have an opportunity to challenge for more playing time as the # 2 TE behind Royal. Fine will have to show that he can be an adequate blocker on the NFL level for that to happen, but there is a pretty fair chance that he could get this opportunity--certainly by mid-season.

As the # 2 TE--or even as the # 3 TE, although in less playing time--Fine could become quite an asset for the Bills. Fine has really good hands and a knack for getting open in critical situations.

If Anderson or Johnson don't seize control of the role and the playing time, I see Fine being the replacement for Michael Gaines in the Bills' offense--only with better hands and agility. Despite his size, Gaines wasn't a great blocker (that was part of the reason that Carolina kept cutting him) as a TE and he didn't have the speed to stretch the middle of the field, either, but he did have a knack for getting open and giving his QB a target that he could dump the ball off to. Once he familiarizes himself with the NFL, I think it is possible that the same could be said about Fine, as a rookie, as this season progresses.

Ultimately, I think that Fine will work harder at becoming a good blocker than Gaines did and, with his hands and ability to get open short, will develop into a nice, all-around traditional TE who can be a weapon in the red-zone and short-yardage situations. He's never going to be a guy that defenses are going to have to game-plan around, but, in a way, that can make him just as effective, situationally, as a more athletic TE. And, depending what Anderson and Johnson do--which will impact Fine's playing time--I think that there is a decent chance that Fine will start to show some of what he can do this season (with rookies, I tend to feel that they really don't show much before mid-season, but, in this case--because it is hard to know what the Bills will get from Anderson and/or Johnson--Fine may or may not have more of an opportunity to show what he can do sooner).

Obviously I think that a lot of what happens at the TE position will depend on Anderson and Johnson. Both have the athletic ability to be star quality players, but have been mediocre at best thus far in their careers. Needless to say, the Bills are hoping that one or both will finally play up to the level of their physical abilities--if even one does, the Bills will have a very good TE who can supplant Royal as the starter.

But, to this point in their careers, there is no reason to believe that either one will turn out to be any better than mediocre. If they both are mediocre, Fine will ultimately beat them out and get more playing time as the season progresses. If one or both suddenly blossoms, Fine will be brought along slowly (and a lot of people here will be screaming that he is a "bust" who the Bills never should have drafted!). And, right now, it is way too early to even speculate what either of those two players will do for the Bills. We'll just have to wait until July and August (and possibly even later in the fall) to see.

Thank you in advance for feedback.[/quote]

[HHURRICANE]

Did we release Merz???

[yordad]

Did we release Merz???Yep

[mysticsoto]

LTBF, for the 1st time, I must say I disagree with you on backup at OT. Chambers was horrible and only played toward the end of last season b'cse the Bills were desperate and didn't have a better option behind Peters. I perceive them to like Matt Murphy a great deal and think they will likely choose to keep him alongside Bell rather than keep Chambers. Yes, Bell will be raw and might be a candidate for the PS, but both he and Murphy are quick and have better upside than anything Chambers showed last year. I sincerely hope they dump him, as I think Chambers is just too slow and uncoordinated to be playing behind Peters at LT. Hopefully, the injury bug won't bite too hard and some of the more capable backups will allow us to dump him...

[EDS]

LTBF, for the 1st time, I must say I disagree with you on backup at OT. Chambers was horrible and only played toward the end of last season b'cse the Bills were desperate and didn't have a better option behind Peters. I perceive them to like Matt Murphy a great deal and think they will likely choose to keep him alongside Bell rather than keep Chambers. Yes, Bell will be raw and might be a candidate for the PS, but both he and Murphy are quick and have better upside than anything Chambers showed last year. I sincerely hope they dump him, as I think Chambers is just too slow and uncoordinated to be playing behind Peters at LT. Hopefully, the injury bug won't bite too hard and some of the more capable backups will allow us to dump him...

If Murphy still weights 275 lbs he isn't going to see the field as a tackle anytime soon.

[mysticsoto]

If Murphy still weights 275 lbs he isn't going to see the field as a tackle anytime soon.

Murphy has been increasing consistently and was quoted as saying he'd likely be in the 280s by the time the season starts - and last I say, he was putting it on correctly with weights and not by overeating (though it's been awhile now since I've seen him). Also, don't forget that he'll be facing DEs who typically use speed more than girth. Tackles need speed more than anything else to be able to keep up with DEs. As a backup, I think he'll be fine.

[EDS]

Murphy has been increasing consistently and was quoted as saying he'd likely be in the 280s by the time the season starts - and last I say, he was putting it on correctly with weights and not by overeating (though it's been awhile now since I've seen him). Also, don't forget that he'll be facing DEs who typically use speed more than girth. Tackles need speed more than anything else to be able to keep up with DEs. As a backup, I think he'll be fine.

I wonder why there are not more 280 lb tackles in the NFL.

[mysticsoto]

I wonder why there are not more 280 lb tackles in the NFL.

I didn't say it was ideal. Just that he's working his way there, and the FO seem to like him a great deal. He's just a backup anyway. The ideal would be for him to never have to see the field! Truthfully, probably anybody that has to replace Peters will be a disappointment compared to him...

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Murphy has been increasing consistently and was quoted as saying he'd likely be in the 280s by the time the season starts - and last I say, he was putting it on correctly with weights and not by overeating (though it's been awhile now since I've seen him). Also, don't forget that he'll be facing DEs who typically use speed more than girth. Tackles need speed more than anything else to be able to keep up with DEs. As a backup, I think he'll be fine.

I see your point, mystic, but I beg to differ.

You are right about OTs needing to have speed and quickness for pass blocking, but they also need to have size and strength to for run-blocking assignments and to keep from being bowled over on a "bull-rush". Facing a 3-4 defense, an OT may have to block down on a 290+ lb DE (think Richard Seymour) and a 285 lb OT isn't going to be able to get much movement against a big DE or DT when he has to block inside.

I know the Bills like Murphy and that's why I give him an outside shot at supplanting Chambers as the back-up OT, but I don't think he can accomplish that this season if he doesn't come in at at least 295 (did you see what happened to D.Ferguson, with the Jets, when he couldn't maintain sufficient weight? And, he was already a proven blocker at OT coming out of college).

In short, if you are going to go with a 285 lb back-up OT simply because you like him and think he has potential if he can get his weight up, you might as well not go with a back-up OT at all because he is going to get manhandled and not be able to do what you need to have him do.

Now, Chambers may not be very good--and I said that I thought he was barely mediocre--but the Bills just might have to cross their fingers that nothing happens to J.Peters or L.Walker this season until D.Bell is ready to play--which I doubt will be before mid-season--if Murphy can't put some more weight on (he's got to be up to at least the 295 lb. range) and still maintain his quickness.

Because, it appears that the Bills have decided to have McCaskill try his hand at center rather than at OT now. If you read the article about McCaskill's switch to center on BB.com, it appears that the coaches really like McCaskill's potential at the position--which undoubtedly will please those who aren't too fond of Fowler. Still, I don't know what that says about how they feel about Gaddis, who they seemed to like a lot last year, but may now have soured on (?)

With McCaskill and Gaddis working inside with Fowler, Whittle and Preston, the only challengers to Chambers right now are Murphy, D.Bell and, maybe, Felton (who I think is an OG, but who also played some OT at Arkansas) and both Bell and Felton are rookies who would appear to be too raw at this stage to be ready to be the back-up OT going into this coming season. (If you read the article on McCaskill on BB.com, one of the line coaches remarks that they like to have a back-up OT who can play some OG as well--which Felton has done on the college level, but not in the NFL and neither Murphy nor Bell have done.)

The move of McCaskill to center would indicate to me that Duke Preston is on extremely thin ice. While Gaddis, McCaskill and Felton all have PS eligibility remaining, it seems to me that by having Gaddis and McCaskill working at center along with Fowler and Whittle, the Bills are attempting to prepare for a future without two of these three: Fowler, Whittle and/or Preston; after this season.

If the Bills, as the article suggests, carry only seven active O-linemen on their active roster on gamedays, the odds are that, unless Preston really steps his game up this year in TC, Whittle will be the back-up interior lineman (with Chambers or Murphy being the back-up OT) going into the season. With Bell and McCaskill being two guys that it would appear that the coaches would like to develop possibly making the PS, Gaddis, Preston and Felton could find themselves fighting for one or at most two spots on the roster and/or PS. In which case, Preston could very easily find himself as the "odd-man out".

No matter how you look at it, the Bills will be pretty thin on the offensive line going into this season and will have to hope that their starters can stay healthy for the whole season. You can see that they are trying to develop some quality depth behind their starters, but the depth guys that they have are still pretty raw and really aren't ready for "prime time" action yet. A year from now, if those depth guys develop, they could be in pretty good shape, but right now they are still very thin. And, it is lack of quality depth in areas like this that is part of what separates a young team trying to rise from the established, solid SB contenders.

[mysticsoto]

Personally, I think only keeping 7 Olinemen is a mistake, but I can see that they probably want to allow extra space for TE/FBs that can also play STs. So that being said, I suppose Bell can be put on the PS and be pulled in if an emergency would require him. I think Duke is gone this year (he's had enough chances) and Whittle will get one spot while the other spot with be between Murphy and Chambers. They've been so high on Murphy, that I'd be willing to bet they'd pick him over Chambers (atleast I would) assuming that his weight gain is coming along fine. The good thing might be that if he's gaining weight by putting on muscle (rather than girth), then his extra strength will come in handy when dealing with 3-4 configurations with 290+ lb DEs. That being said, he is a backup and will have trouble with top notch DEs in that range regardless.

In either case, I think Bell is the eventual replacement for either in the next coming years...with Felton being the eventual replacement to Whittle.