Sirius finally blasts our 3rd and 4th round picks.

[HHURRICANE]

Driving home from work at 6PM and a Buffalo caller said he was disappointed in our draft after our first two picks.

The guys broke down rounds 3 and 4 and said we should have taken Brad Cottam (TE) in the 3rd. Says that Evans will still be facing a safety playing over the top in every game and that the kid from Tennesee would have been a big help to Edwards.

Also thought we should have taken Dre Moore (DT) in the 4th over Reggie Corner. They are convinced that Stroud will not be 100% and we could have used another DT vs. another CB.

I thought it was excellent analysis and made me think that we screwed the pooch in rounds 3 and 4.

[The Spaz]

**** em we'll see how it plays out when the games are played.

[Romes]

Since you have been one of the biggest blasters of Schobel I am surprised you don't like the Ellis pick or think we needed a DE.

Also, Moore would have been the 5th DT if the Bills drafted him. I'd say finding a 4th corner is more important and more of glaring need for the Bills than a 5th DT.

[historypete]

I didn't think about Cottam, but I said when Corner was picked we should have gone after Moore or Bryant from A&M. We need more D-line help than CB at that point in my opinon.

[Mitchy moo]

Sirius doesn't play on sunday, they broadcast.

[Goobylal]

Brad Cottam? The guy was Mr. Glass in college and barely had any stats to show for himself. He caught 21 passes for 341 yards and 1 TD, not in his senior season, but during FIVE YEARS in Tennessee. What makes anyone think he'll suddenly become unbreakable and/or productive in the NFL?

Please, they could have mentioned Craig Stevens, Jermichael Finley, Martin Rucker or even Kellen Davis. But Brad Cottam?!

Taking Corner over Moore is a legitimate gripe. But it depends on how each pans out.

[HHURRICANE]

Guys, don't shoot the messenger,

Kansas City took Cottam in the 3rd and they have this other guy at TE, I think his name his Gonzales or something like that (sarcasm). Anyway Cottam must have something going for him at 6'8", 270 pounds for Kansas City to take him at all with Tony on their roster.

They knew their stuff because they talked about Gaughn's stat that when the Bills were in a 4 receiver set they threw to the TE once in 49 attempts. They said that D's good pretty much ignore the TE altogether.

Remiersa was the last guy to have any production and that was in, are you ready, 2001.

Sorry but Derek is not going to be the guy.

[YardRat]

They knew their stuff because they talked about Gaughn's stat that when the Bills were in a 4 receiver set they threw to the TE once in 49 attempts. They said that D's good pretty much ignore the TE altogether.


Did they say how many of those 49 times there was actually a TE on the field?

Good...I hope they continue to ignore the TE, it'll make it that much easier for Trent to find him.

[Jan Reimers]

I don't understand the criticism of Chris Ellis. Many "experts" wanted us to take a DE in the first round. Instead, we took care of our biggest needs in the first two rounds, and still got an excellent DE in the 3rd.

You can argue the 4th round, but the Bills took 2 guys they really liked rather than players with bigger names. I'll predict right now that Fine wil be a better TE than Cottam.

[feelthepain]

Driving home from work at 6PM and a Buffalo caller said he was disappointed in our draft after our first two picks.

The guys broke down rounds 3 and 4 and said we should have taken Brad Cottam (TE) in the 3rd. Says that Evans will still be facing a safety playing over the top in every game and that the kid from Tennesee would have been a big help to Edwards.

Also thought we should have taken Dre Moore (DT) in the 4th over Reggie Corner. They are convinced that Stroud will not be 100% and we could have used another DT vs. another CB.

I thought it was excellent analysis and made me think that we screwed the pooch in rounds 3 and 4.

So when I said that the addition of Stroud was a questiom mark, I'm not the only one who feels that way?? Imagine that.

[mayotm]

Guys, don't shoot the messenger,

Kansas City took Cottam in the 3rd and they have this other guy at TE, I think his name his Gonzales or something like that (sarcasm). Anyway Cottam must have something going for him at 6'8", 270 pounds for Kansas City to take him at all with Tony on their roster.

They knew their stuff because they talked about Gaughn's stat that when the Bills were in a 4 receiver set they threw to the TE once in 49 attempts. They said that D's good pretty much ignore the TE altogether.

Remiersa was the last guy to have any production and that was in, are you ready, 2001.

Sorry but Derek is not going to be the guy.Don't shoot the messenger? Don't post if you don't want people to react. You point out that Remiersa (7th rounder or undrafted, I don't recall) was the last Bills TE to really produce. How do you know that Fine won't be the answer? For whatever reason, the Bills had Fine rated higher than others. The fact is that nobody knows how Fine or any draft pick is going to perform. The "experts" on Sirius, ESPN, NFL Network, etc are just offering opinions. They are not facts. Just because some analyst suggest that the Bills (or any other team) should have done something differently doesn't make it so.

[mayotm]

So when I said that the addition of Stroud was a questiom mark, I'm not the only one who feels that way?? Imagine that.I guess it's because you are so much smarter than the rest of us. Congratulations on your brilliance.

[Scumbag College]

Really, that Sirius NFL network is the closest thing to purgatory on earth. Especially from May-July when there is next to no NFL news. There's a few good commentators on there, but there's some real dolts too, like Randy Cross.

[feelthepain]

I guess it's because you are so much smarter than the rest of us. Congratulations on your brilliance.
Well I already knew that, my point is some Bill fans here (justawhiner) believe everyone on the planet would be thrilled by the addition of Stroud. I don't think he's such a great addition because of his injury issue and his drug issue. He's hardly been much of a factor the last 2 years....but since he's now a Bill, well he's suddenly the best off season addition in the league.

[mayotm]

Well I already knew that, my point is some Bill fans here (justawhiner) believe everyone on the planet would be thrilled by the addition of Stroud. I don't think he's such a great addition because of his injury issue and his drug issue. He's hardly been much of a factor the last 2 years....but since he's now a Bill, well he suddenly the best off season addition in the league.I think this has been explained to you before. Since you're such a smart guy you should be able to follow. This is a site largely comprised of Bills fans. It stands to reason that Bills fans are going to have mostly positive opinions about the Bills. At times, some of the opinions are certainly on the homeristic side. I suspect you'll find the same thing if you go to the message boards of any other NFL team. I don't know for sure because I don't visit the sites of other teams.

[feelthepain]

I think this has been explained to you before. Since you're such a smart guy you should be able to follow. This is a site largely comprised of Bills fans. It stands to reason that Bills fans are going to have mostly positive opinions about the Bills. At times, some of the opinions are certainly on the homeristic side. I suspect you'll find the same thing if you go to the message boards of any other NFL team. I don't know for sure because I don't visit the sites of other teams.

Gee, really????????

[mayotm]

Gee, really????????It's obvious to me, but I'm not sure it is to you. You spend a lot of time posting here, yet always seem surprised that people are optimistic about the Bills.

[feelthepain]

It's obvious to me, but I'm not sure it is to you. You spend a lot of time posting here, yet always seem surprised that people are optimistic about the Bills.

Optimistic is an enormous stretch! See, when I say Stroud is a question mark for the Bills. That's a fair statement, it's not saying he's a bust or a worthless addition, just a questionable move due to his injury and drug problems.

Some Bill fans can't accept that because it doesn't allow them to convince the whole world the Bills are suddenly on the cusp of greatness. So we get into a pissing match over what a GIGANTIC...HUGE....ENORMOUS addition of talent Stroud is and how suddenly the Bills problems along the Dline have been solved. I say, we'll see. I hardly think that constitutes raining on Bill fans parade.

[Goobylal]

Guys, don't shoot the messenger,

Kansas City took Cottam in the 3rd and they have this other guy at TE, I think his name his Gonzales or something like that (sarcasm). Anyway Cottam must have something going for him at 6'8", 270 pounds for Kansas City to take him at all with Tony on their roster.

They knew their stuff because they talked about Gaughn's stat that when the Bills were in a 4 receiver set they threw to the TE once in 49 attempts. They said that D's good pretty much ignore the TE altogether.

Remiersa was the last guy to have any production and that was in, are you ready, 2001.

Sorry but Derek is not going to be the guy.
What does KC having Gonzalez, a guy drafted by a previous regime and with the 13th overall selection, have to do with the selection of Cottam in the middle of the 3rd round? Having Gonzalez doesn't make them experts in selecting TE's, nor does it mean that Cottam was some sort of special TE because they used their 5th pick of the draft on him.

As I said, the guy's CAREER numbers weren't even as good as what most of the top TE's generated in one season. In fact, his career numbers were about half of what Derek Fine did last season alone.

And we can argue whether it was smart for the Chefs to take a TE, when they already had Gonzalez and when WR was a much greater need, if not DE (after trading Jared Allen).

And how do you know Fine won't be the guy? And that Cottam will?

[HHURRICANE]

First off FTP could be right on Stroud. Hard to argue until he produces on the field as a Bill.

Second, I didn't call Sirius or answer the question? I'm just reporting what was said.

Third, IMO they made some valid points:

1) KC has Gonzales and still thought enough of this Cottam kid to take him. The kid at 6'8" is huge. He has almost half a foot over Fine.

2) Stroud could be a giant bust. People around here remind me of Philly fans that were all excited when they got Spikes. We saw how that turned out and knew how it was going to turn out. So taking Dre has way more merit than yet another CB.

3) The Bills had a TE on the field everytime when Gaughn quoted the stat at the owners meeting. We have one of the worst productions from TEs in the league and people want to justify the stat? Geez.

[HHURRICANE]

Optimistic is an enormous stretch! See, when I say Stroud is a question mark for the Bills. That's a fair statement, it's not saying he's a bust or a worthless addition, just a questionable move due to his injury and drug problems.

Some Bill fans can't accept that because it doesn't allow them to convince the whole world the Bills are suddenly on the cusp of greatness. So we get into a pissing match over what a GIGANTIC...HUGE....ENORMOUS addition of talent Stroud is and how suddenly the Bills problems along the Dline have been solved. I say, we'll see. I hardly think that constitutes raining on Bill fans parade.

I think you are a bonehead at times but you are right on this one and are being fair about it.

[Coach Sal]

Did they say how many of those 49 times there was actually a TE on the field?

It was any time the Bills used a spread 4-receiver set and one of the receivers was actually a TE in the slot.

[patmoran2006]

I dont have a problem with the Ellis pick, he can hopefully be our new Hargrove.

But I still hate the Corner pick in the 4th. We already had Greer (someday soon), Will James AND Youboty as backups.. At best Corner will replace Youboty on the roster and be the 5th CB and play special teams.

I think we should've taken the best backup OL available at that time. Guys on the line get hurt and our depth on the OL is horrible.

[feelthepain]

I think you are a bonehead at times but you are right on this one and are being fair about it.

As I do you.:D:

[Coach Sal]

I heard the same call, and everything HHURRICANE explained is exactly correct, but there were some other things said, in addition, that he did not write (allow me to be the "positive" messenger here).

--They metnioned that Levy did a great job stabalizing the organization/roster through the draft the last couple years and because of that, even though they disagree with a few of the picks, the Bills should have earned the benefit of the doubt to see how it plays out.

--Every time they think the Bills aren't going to be very good or do much, they watch them and always wind up thinking, (paraphrasing) "boy, this team has some decent parts. That kid from Stanford IS a pretty good QB." (they used Edwards more as an example of their point, I believe, not specifically talking about him).

--Pat Kirwin said he is convinced James Hardy will be a "big-time" player in the league.

--Talked about the "little slot receivers" we have and said Roscoe will stay play a role in the offense.

--Their criticism of not picking Cottam was exactly what HHURRICANE described, as they said you must be able to stretch the middle of the field. But Kirwin added, "maybe they think Fine can be that guy."

[Dr. Lecter]

I dont have a problem with the Ellis pick, he can hopefully be our new Hargrove.

But I still hate the Corner pick in the 4th. We already had Greer (someday soon), Will James AND Youboty as backups.. At best Corner will replace Youboty on the roster and be the 5th CB and play special teams.

I think we should've taken the best backup OL available at that time. Guys on the line get hurt and our depth on the OL is horrible.

Most teams in the NFL, if not all, do not pick for need in the 4th round.

[patmoran2006]

Most teams in the NFL, if not all, do not pick for need in the 4th round.
who gives a **** what most teams do.

Most teams do not have the ****ty depth at OL that the Bills do.

Duke Preston? Chambers? Whittle? Are you serious.

Its mind boggling they would take a 5th corner before another offensive linemen.

[yordad]

Since you have been one of the biggest blasters of Schobel I am surprised you don't like the Ellis pick or think we needed a DE.

Also, Moore would have been the 5th DT if the Bills drafted him. I'd say finding a 4th corner is more important and more of glaring need for the Bills than a 5th DT.A 4th corner? I think that is unlikely. A 5th DT with a lot more upside seems better then a CB that probably won't make the team.

McGee
Greer
McKelvin
James
Youboty
Corner, Fox, Cox

But, call me crazy for thinking we could have got a starting FB here, and vastly improved the talent at a starting position.


You can argue the 4th round, but the Bills took 2 guys they really liked rather than players with bigger names. I'll predict right now that Fine wil be a better TE than Cottam.That seems like a pretty thin limb, I wouldn't step on it, but I hope your right.

Guys, don't shoot the messenger,

Kansas City took Cottam in the 3rd and they have this other guy at TE, I think his name his Gonzales or something like that (sarcasm). Anyway Cottam must have something going for him at 6'8", 270 pounds for Kansas City to take him at all with Tony on their roster.

They knew their stuff because they talked about Gaughn's stat that when the Bills were in a 4 receiver set they threw to the TE once in 49 attempts. They said that D's good pretty much ignore the TE altogether.

Remiersa was the last guy to have any production and that was in, are you ready, 2001.

Sorry but Derek is not going to be the guy.Can we shoot you now? This sounds like an original piece.

[Dr. Lecter]

You don't draft for need in the later rounds, sorry.

All GMs say that. From Polian to Butler to Beatherd. You don't draft for need.

As for O-line depth, I agree it is weak (although I am fine with Whittle as a back-up). But that is fairly common in today's NFL. Teams don't have good back-ups because they go elsewhere to start.

[yordad]

You don't draft for need in the later rounds, sorry.

All GMs say that. From Polian to Butler to Beatherd. You don't draft for need.

As for O-line depth, I agree it is weak (although I am fine with Whittle as a back-up). But that is fairly common in today's NFL. Teams don't have good back-ups because they go elsewhere to start.Well, don't they say that for every round? I believe they are being PC. What are they supposed to say "well, we reached a little because our guys suck". The reason the myth is perpetuated in the later rounds, IMO, is because teams don't usually find starters that far down. Or a guy that can have a significant immediate impact. We could have.

[yordad]

So when I said that the addition of Stroud was a questiom mark, I'm not the only one who feels that way?? Imagine that.Seriously, isn't every addition a question mark, every time? Thanks captain obvious.

[HHURRICANE]

I heard the same call, and everything HHURRICANE explained is exactly correct, but there were some other things said, in addition, that he did not write (allow me to be the "positive" messenger here).

--They metnioned that Levy did a great job stabalizing the organization/roster through the draft the last couple years and because of that, even though they disagree with a few of the picks, the Bills should have earned the benefit of the doubt to see how it plays out.

--Every time they think the Bills aren't going to be very good or do much, they watch them and always wind up thinking, (paraphrasing) "boy, this team has some decent parts. That kid from Stanford IS a pretty good QB." (they used Edwards more as an example of their point, I believe, not specifically talking about him).


--Pat Kirwin said he is convinced James Hardy will be a "big-time" player in the league.

--Talked about the "little slot receivers" we have and said Roscoe will stay play a role in the offense.

--Their criticism of not picking Cottam was exactly what HHURRICANE described, as they said you must be able to stretch the middle of the field. But Kirwin added, "maybe they think Fine can be that guy."

Thank you and your are 100% right. They did praise Levy for his last 2 drafts and I should have included it.

And I'll add they that were scanning who picked around us in both rounds to kind of see if the caller had a valid point. They said Cottam was intriguing because of his size and I guess had a good senior bowl.

Dre came up because they didn't sound sold that Stroud was the answer to our interior DL based on injuries, etc.

[Patrick76777]

I demand that I be paid back for the 7 minutes of my life I just lost for reading this AWFUL thread!


Second guessing 4th round picks?????????????

It's getting bad.

[Scumbag College]

I demand that I be paid back for the 7 minutes of my life I just lost for reading this AWFUL thread!


Second guessing 4th round picks?????????????

It's getting bad.

Only four more months till opening day!

[yordad]

I demand that I be paid back for the 7 minutes of my life I just lost for reading this AWFUL thread!


Second guessing 4th round picks?????????????

It's getting bad.Yeah, the might as well end the draft after three rounds...... hey wait a minute. :headscrat

[Patrick76777]

Yeah, the might as well end the draft after three rounds...... hey wait a minute. :headscrat


Yep, that's exactly what I said! ......hey wait a minute. "insert stupid ass smile here"

[justasportsfan]

I think this has been explained to you before. Since you're such a smart guy you should be able to follow. This is a site largely comprised of Bills fans. It stands to reason that Bills fans are going to have mostly positive opinions about the Bills. At times, some of the opinions are certainly on the homeristic side. I suspect you'll find the same thing if you go to the message boards of any other NFL team. I don't know for sure because I don't visit the sites of other teams.


FTP is the very same poster who's telling us that Strouds knee is questionable but when we told him his "DEAREST DAUNTE" :broken: knee was a questionmark, he wouldn't believe.

[yordad]

Yep, that's exactly what I said! ......hey wait a minute. "insert stupid ass smile here"It works better if you use colons on either side.

Did you or did you not imply that after the third round the picks were insignificant? If so, I disagree. And, find it strange you even read this thread because the title isn't misleading.

If not, then I guess your post wasn't all too clear.

:suggesting you try and make your post more clear:

[feelthepain]

Seriously, isn't every addition a question mark, every time? Thanks captain obvious.

I don't know, I wouldn't call Asante Samuel a question mark, you might, but I wouldn't!

[yordad]

I don't know, I wouldn't call Asante Samuel a question mark, you might, but I wouldn't!So, you assume he get what(?).... 11 picks this year? And, the Eagles will be #1 in D, and go to the Super Bowl? Is it possible he could have been a "system guy"? How will he mesh with team mates? How will his contract effect demand? Can he handle it? Will he slack now that he hit pay day? Will his team mates be jealous?

No questions huh? So I assume you have all these answers.

[HHURRICANE]

I demand that I be paid back for the 7 minutes of my life I just lost for reading this AWFUL thread!


Second guessing 4th round picks?????????????

It's getting bad.

When Stroud isn't on the field you might be wishing that we had Dre instead of Corner.

You are free to post something more interesting. You realize this is pure entertainment at this point.

[feelthepain]

So, you assume he get what(?).... 11 picks this year? And, the Eagles will be #1 in D, and go to the Super Bowl? Is it possible he could have been a "system guy"? How will he mesh with team mates? How will his contract effect demand? Can he handle it? Will he slack now that he hit pay day? Will his team mates be jealous?

No questions huh? So I assume you have all these answers.

I don't assume anything, I know he'll be a monster at what he does. As for evrtything else you wrote, I don't care if the Eagles have the number 1 defense or they win the SB. The point is, not every FA is a questionmark. You know when you sign them they will produce. TO's is another one, you sign the guy...he produces.

Now if TO's has two bad years...which has never happened and he's coming off a serious injury and a drug suspension, then I would consider him a question mark as would most with half a brain.

[Goobylal]

I don't assume anything, I know he'll be a monster at what he does. As for evrtything else you wrote, I don't care if the Eagles have the number 1 defense or they win the SB. The point is, not every FA is a questionmark. You know when you sign them they will produce. TO's is another one, you sign the guy...he produces.

Now if TO's has two bad years...which has never happened and he's coming off a serious injury and a drug suspension, then I would consider him a question mark as would most with half a brain.
Sorry but given the number of players who leave the Patriots and fail to make a mark elsewhere (lack of videotaping, perhaps?), Samuel is a HUGE question mark. He was in the league for 3 undistinguished years before breaking-out in his contract year. So that's another red flag.

WRT TO, you know he's got the talent, but you don't know if he's got the maturity. By all accounts, he should have been a great player for the Eagles. But he ended up being a cancer. Look at Moss in Oakland. Point being, there are always question marks. Your Dols signed a lot of players with question marks, namely Jake Long who few think can be a LT, while he'd be getting paid ridiculously to just be a RT.

As for Stroud, he's an injury concern and I admitted that at the time they signed him. I have no problem with people mentioning that. But you can't worry about injuries. They can happen at anytime and to anyone.

As for the Corner pick, I can see the criticism considering the Bills could have addressed another position rather than doubling-back. But I guess they felt Corner was the best player available and filled somewhat of a need (think nickel and dime sets).

[John Doe]

When Stroud isn't on the field you might be wishing that we had Dre instead of Corner.

I don't think that Dre Moore is a lock to outperform the experienced back-ups that the team already has. I don't think that it is reasonable to assume that this 4th round rookie would step right in and play better than Johnson or Williams.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Driving home from work at 6PM and a Buffalo caller said he was disappointed in our draft after our first two picks.

The guys broke down rounds 3 and 4 and said we should have taken Brad Cottam (TE) in the 3rd. Says that Evans will still be facing a safety playing over the top in every game and that the kid from Tennesee would have been a big help to Edwards.

Also thought we should have taken Dre Moore (DT) in the 4th over Reggie Corner. They are convinced that Stroud will not be 100% and we could have used another DT vs. another CB.

I thought it was excellent analysis and made me think that we screwed the pooch in rounds 3 and 4.
Can't you think for yourself? You are constantly flip flopping. Didn't we need help at pass rush? Didn't we sign Spencer Johnson to back up Stroud?

[yordad]

Didn't we need help at pass rush? Didn't we sign Spencer Johnson to back up Stroud?This is a solid point. But, have you noticed the list of randon nobodies at tight end?

[jamze132]

Optimistic is an enormous stretch! See, when I say Stroud is a question mark for the Bills. That's a fair statement, it's not saying he's a bust or a worthless addition, just a questionable move due to his injury and drug problems.

Some Bill fans can't accept that because it doesn't allow them to convince the whole world the Bills are suddenly on the cusp of greatness. So we get into a pissing match over what a GIGANTIC...HUGE....ENORMOUS addition of talent Stroud is and how suddenly the Bills problems along the Dline have been solved. I say, we'll see. I hardly think that constitutes raining on Bill fans parade.
Some fans can't seem to accept anything you say because youa re a 40 year old man living in your mom's basement and have nothing interesting to contribute to this board. All you do is attack fans on here and preach about how great Dante Culpepper is. Do you remember your love letter to Culpepper on another board that was brought to our attention over here?

LTfinfan66, please bring it from the depths if need be, thanks.

[HHURRICANE]

Can't you think for yourself? You are constantly flip flopping. Didn't we need help at pass rush? Didn't we sign Spencer Johnson to back up Stroud?

Dude, I'm not flip-flopping.

I wanted Harvey, period, end of discussion.

I wanted a DE that could step in and replace Schobel. Ellis as a replacemnet to Hargrove is fine but you aren't comparing apples to apples.

[bflojohn]

On the subject of "sure thing", center LeCharles Bentley was exactly that, until he took his first snap of his first practice with the Cleveland Browns. He hasn't been seen on the field since!! Additionally, from the Kansas City perspective, Tony Gonzales has some age creeping up on him and, as a franchise, they have lost two veteran TE's, one being Kris Wilson. After the draft, I too had a little voice telling me that Reggie Corner and Derek Fine were NOT the picks I'd have liked to have seen, but after doing the reasearch about these picks, I'm more inclined to understand the picks.

[Goobylal]

I find it odd that Kellen Davis was passed-over so many times. He must have come across as an arrogant SOB in his Combine interviews. I was hoping for him over Fine, but I can only surmise that teams think he'll never be mature enough to put in the hard work to succeed. But time will tell.

As for Fine, if he lives up to his draft analysis "good blocker, hard worker, moves the chains but won't get deep," I'll be happy with him.

[yordad]

I find it odd that Kellen Davis was passed-over so many times. He must have come across as an arrogant SOB in his Combine interviews. I was hoping for him over Fine, but I can only surmise that teams think he'll never be mature enough to put in the hard work to succeed. But time will tell.

As for Fine, if he lives up to his draft analysis "good blocker, hard worker, moves the chains but won't get deep," I'll be happy with him.I will be comparing these two for quite some time. I hope they were right, because I wanted Davis too. But, your right, neither of us interviewed him, so who knows.

[Jan Reimers]

On the subject of "sure thing", center LeCharles Bentley was exactly that, until he took his first snap of his first practice with the Cleveland Browns. He hasn't been seen on the field since!! Additionally, from the Kansas City perspective, Tony Gonzales has some age creeping up on him and, as a franchise, they have lost two veteran TE's, one being Kris Wilson. After the draft, I too had a little voice telling me that Reggie Corner and Derek Fine were NOT the picks I'd have liked to have seen, but after doing the reasearch about these picks, I'm more inclined to understand the picks.
I feel the same way. I don't know why so many posters have crucified Corner and Fine - and even Ellis - before they've stepped on the field. Who knows how they'll work out, but to throw them under the bus already is really premature.

But typical of this board.

[hydro]

It works better if you use colons on either side.

Did you or did you not imply that after the third round the picks were insignificant? If so, I disagree. And, find it strange you even read this thread because the title isn't misleading.

If not, then I guess your post wasn't all too clear.

:suggesting you try and make your post more clear:
I am not sure how you could have misconstrued his first post so horribly.


I demand that I be paid back for the 7 minutes of my life I just lost for reading this AWFUL thread!


Second guessing 4th round picks?????????????

It's getting bad.
Where in there does it state he thinks that picks past round 3 are worthless? To me it sounds like a jab at the draft know it alls in this place that hear names constantly and think we screwed up because we didn't pick them up.

[Romes]

A 4th corner? I think that is unlikely. A 5th DT with a lot more upside seems better then a CB that probably won't make the team.

McGee
Greer
McKelvin
James
Youboty
Corner, Fox, Cox


Well, yeah of course I'd take a guy with upside at any position over a guy that won't make the team. Although you are being unrealistic if you don't think that Corner has upside.

I am not saying that Corner will be the 4th CB, only that there is still a big hole at that spot. Even after the first round of the draft we still had a journeyman vet and an inconsistent (to be nice) 3rd year guy. I'd rate James and Youboty as decent at best. Corner should at least be able to challenge for that Spot.

[HHURRICANE]

I feel the same way. I don't know why so many posters have crucified Corner and Fine - and even Ellis - before they've stepped on the field. Who knows how they'll work out, but to throw them under the bus already is really premature.

But typical of this board.

I agree but this team continues to ignore the TE position and it's starting to get a little old.

Remeber how excited everyone was about Schouman? Now it's the same excitement about Fine. An udersized hybrid guy that we just drafted in Schouman last year.

[Goobylal]

I agree but this team continues to ignore the TE position and it's starting to get a little old.

Remeber how excited everyone was about Schouman? Now it's the same excitement about Fine. An udersized hybrid guy that we just drafted in Schouman last year.
Schouman is 6'2" and 223#. Fine is 6'3" and 251#. Fine can block, Schouman can't.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Dude, I'm not flip-flopping.

I wanted Harvey, period, end of discussion.

I wanted a DE that could step in and replace Schobel. Ellis as a replacemnet to Hargrove is fine but you aren't comparing apples to apples.
I just puked in my mouth :ill:

[TacklingDummy]

Since you have been one of the biggest blasters of Schobel I am surprised you don't like the Ellis pick or think we needed a DE.

Also, Moore would have been the 5th DT if the Bills drafted him. I'd say finding a 4th corner is more important and more of glaring need for the Bills than a 5th DT.

Shelby, Romes did an awesome job with his post. Couldn't this thread end there?

[mayotm]

I will be comparing these two for quite some time. I hope they were right, because I wanted Davis too. But, your right, neither of us interviewed him, so who knows.There could be all sorts of reasons besides the interviews that Davis was passed over for so long. One of them being that he was a classic underachiever in college. Also, teams are privy to information that the media and fans don't know anything about. There could be character issues, failed drug tests, etc. that media and fans don't know about.

[theanswer74]

I agree but this team continues to ignore the TE position and it's starting to get a little old.

Remeber how excited everyone was about Schouman? Now it's the same excitement about Fine. An udersized hybrid guy that we just drafted in Schouman last year.

They didnt ignore it, they drafted a guy in the 4th round, you just don't like him.

They went into the draft needing a big WR, a CB, a 3rd down pass rusher, and a TE.

Trust me, if we drafted Cottam in the 3rd round we will be getting DE posts right now instead of TE posts.

They went out brought in 2 huge athletic TE's in FA who have underachieved in the NFL. They still like Royal, even if we dont. They also added Derek Fine. Lets just hope one of these guys is ok for us. Next draft or free agency we can fill that hole if it is still a hole. You cant fill everything in one year.

[Goobylal]

Next draft or free agency we can fill that hole if it is still a hole. You cant fill everything in one year.
Free agency and the draft were poor for TE's this year. Next year should be better.

[Jan Reimers]

I would actually like to see Derek Fine play before condemning him to s**t pile.

[Jan Reimers]

BTW, for those of you who think Fine is not big enough, or a "hybrid" at 6'3"/ 251 lbs., Dallas Clark is 6'3'/ 252, Alge Crumpler is 6'2"/264 and Eric Johnson is 6'3"/ 252. Tony Gonzalez is 6'5''/ 251.

[justasportsfan]

Didn't they say we screwed the pooch last year with Trent too? How did that waste of a pick turn out ?

[HHURRICANE]

Didn't they say we screwed the pooch last year with Trent too? How did that waste of a pick turn out ?

Justa, this is a good point. However, the argumnet on Trent wasn't that he wasn't a good choice it was just that we didn't need him. Nobody, including me, expected JP to implode.


I just feel like there were so many more better players at TE and we should have gone back to get one. If the Bills were already a playoff team than I might feel differently about this draft in genereal.

[HHURRICANE]

BTW, for those of you who think Fine is not big enough, or a "hybrid" at 6'3"/ 251 lbs., Dallas Clark is 6'3'/ 252, Alge Crumpler is 6'2"/264 and Eric Johnson is 6'3"/ 252. Tony Gonzalez is 6'5''/ 251.

In fairness, each one of these guys are built differently with completely different skill sets. Fine is slow and camp isn't going to make him faster.

[justasportsfan]

Justa, this is a good point. However, the argumnet on Trent wasn't that he wasn't a good choice it was just that we didn't need him. Nobody, including me, expected JP to implode.


I just feel like there were so many more better players at TE and we should have gone back to get one. If the Bills were already a playoff team than I might feel differently about this draft in genereal.
It's not about who we drafted , it's about them not giving this FO the benefit of a doubt that they knew what they were doing when they picked whoever they picked. They were right about Trent therefore their decisions shouldn't be graded this early.

Trent was supposedly a waste of a pick when we drafted him. The majority (including yourself) stated JP got it and we didn't need to WASTE A 3RD on a qb when we had so many other needs.
So the problem is them questioning WHO we broought in regardless of position.

[Jan Reimers]

In fairness, each one of these guys are built differently with completely different skill sets. Fine is slow and camp isn't going to make him faster.
I'll bet he's as fast as a couple of guys on this list. But my point is, why crucify the guy before he even puts on pads? Because he's not Dustin Keller or Fred Davis or Martellus Bennett or some other "name" that we were all so enamored of?

Let's see what he can do before we write him off as a bust.

[theanswer74]

In fairness, each one of these guys are built differently with completely different skill sets. Fine is slow and camp isn't going to make him faster.

If you wanted a big fast TE with no NFL production, Teyo Johnson is your guy.

[HHURRICANE]

I'll bet he's as fast as a couple of guys on this list. But my point is, why crucify the guy before he even puts on pads? Because he's not Dustin Keller or Fred Davis or Martellus Bennett or some other "name" that we were all so enamored of?

Let's see what he can do before we write him off as a bust.

Agreed, opinions are just that, opinions. I hope he's great.

The Bills need to make the playoffs and this off-season looked more like it was suited for a team that didn't have that many holes. The Bills kept talking about adding size to their receiving corp, but in the end they added one tall WR and a short TE.

[theanswer74]

Agreed, opinions are just that, opinions. I hope he's great.

The Bills need to make the playoffs and this off-season looked more like it was suited for a team that didn't have that many holes. The Bills kept talking about adding size to their receiving corp, but in the end they added one tall WR and a short TE.

Not if you add Courtney Anderson and Teyo Johnson, both 6'6 TE's.

Steve Johnson is also 6'2.

This offseason they added two 6'6 TE's, a 6'6 WR, and a 6'2 WR.

Am I wrong?

[acehole]

Agreed, opinions are just that, opinions. I hope he's great.

The Bills need to make the playoffs and this off-season looked more like it was suited for a team that didn't have that many holes. The Bills kept talking about adding size to their receiving corp, but in the end they added one tall WR and a short TE.

Derick will be fine....for what and how we use the TE position for...chip blocking and the 3 yard out.

[HHURRICANE]

It's not about who we drafted , it's about them not giving this FO the benefit of a doubt that they knew what they were doing when they picked whoever they picked. They were right about Trent therefore their decisions shouldn't be graded this early.

Trent was supposedly a waste of a pick when we drafted him. The majority (including yourself) stated JP got it and we didn't need to WASTE A 3RD on a qb when we had so many other needs.
So the problem is them questioning WHO we broought in regardless of position.

It's a message board. If I was always right I would own the Bills and everyone on this board would be in the front office.

The Bills do get the benefit of the doubt with me. I'm just discussing the other options.

This board needs topics and based on the number of posts I get to threads I start I would say it's a little more interesting that "I love our draft, Superbowl here we come."

Since the Bills own the longest playoff drought they deserve to be under the microscope.

[HHURRICANE]

Not if you add Courtney Anderson and Teyo Johnson, both 6'6 TE's.

Steve Johnson is also 6'2.

This offseason they added two 6'6 TE's, a 6'6 WR, and a 6'2 WR.

Am I wrong?

You and I both know that these are second tier players.

[acehole]

Not if you add Courtney Anderson and Teyo Johnson, both 6'6 TE's.

Steve Johnson is also 6'2.

This offseason they added two 6'6 TE's, a 6'6 WR, and a 6'2 WR.

Am I wrong?

Courtney Anderson was/is as good as a 3 4 5 round pick.

If you want one with that skill set.

Anyway you can't sustain a team with studs or great emphasis at every position as those guys want dollars and the have to be replaced eventually.

Some teams put a premium at the TE position and less on the oline or somewhere else. We don't really...unless we are real close to a contender...we wont sell the farm for an elite TE.

Courtney Anderson, DS #11 TE, San Jose State<!--- Link turned off, Link Submit Info saved on file--->
Selected: Round 7, Pick 44, Overall Pick 245 by Raiders</STRONG> </B><!-- Start Player Picture Info Block --><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width=625 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left width=80 bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.tsxdata.com/NFL/mugs/courtneyanderson.jpg</TD><TD vAlign=top width=398><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=395 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width=398>Name: Courtney Anderson
College: San Jose State (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/college.php?DSTeamId=115&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC) Number: 19
Height: 6-6 Weight: 269
Position: TE (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=TE&draftyear=2004&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC) Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2004 (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=TE&draftyear=2004&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC)
40 Time: 4.89 40 Low: 40 High:
Projected Round: 6 (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/value.php?projected=6&draftyear=2004&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC) Stock: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/images/same.gif
Rated number 11 out of 56 TE's / 1165 TOTAL</STRONG> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle width=102 bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.tsxdata.com/College/teamlogos/115.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END Player Picture Info Block --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=630 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=nav width=315 background=images/mcfback.jpg colSpan=2 height=25>
Combine Results
</TD><TD class=nav width=315 background=images/mcfback.jpg colSpan=2 height=25>
Pro Day Results
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#f3f3f3>Combine Invite: yes
Height: 6062
Weight: 269
40 Yrd Dash: 4.89
20 Yrd Dash: 2.86
10 Yrd Dash: 1.76 </TD><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#f3f3f3>225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 30
Broad Jump: 08'10"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.54
3-Cone Drill: 7.86


</TD><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#fff2f3>Dates: 03/08
Height: 6062
Weight: 269
40 Yrd Dash: 4.78
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: </TD><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#fff2f3>225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump:
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle:
3-Cone Drill:

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[HHURRICANE]

Courtney Anderson was/is as good as a 3 4 5 round pick.

If you want one with that skill set.

Anyway you can't sustain a team with studs or great emphasis at every position as those guys want dollars and the have to be replaced eventually.

Some teams put a premium at the TE position and less on the oline or somewhere else. We don't really...unless we are real close to a contender...we wont sell the farm for an elite TE.

<!--- Link turned off, Link Submit Info saved on file--->

Wow, we replaced a guy with 15 recetions, 215 yards, 7 yard YPC, and 2 TDs last year with a guy who has 25 catches 258 yards, 3.6 YPC and 2 TDs.

Gaines and Anderson came in the league at the same time and over 3 years have almost identical stats. Matter-of-fact Gaines has a better YPC which means he actually spread the field better.

[justasportsfan]

The Bills do get the benefit of the doubt with me. .. Really? you already decided we screwed the pooch in rounds 3 and 4 after reading s0meone's else's article.

[HHURRICANE]

Really? you already decided we screwed the pooch in rounds 3 and 4 after reading s0meone's else's article.

The Bills have drafted well and seem to be improving so I have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they see things that I don't.

However, I certainly can still criticize their choices when a team hasn't seen the playoffs in 9 years.

This season is a make or break for everyone. Fans, players, coaches and the organization.

I can't even imagine what happens if this team goes 6-10.

[Jan Reimers]

I can't even imagine what happens if this team goes 6-10.
When you've been a fan since 1960, you can imagine just about anything. Mostly, "Wait til next year."

[HHURRICANE]

When you've been a fan since 1960, you can imagine just about anything. Mostly, "Wait til next year."

I think that the Bills staying in Buffalo is becoming less and less likely which means that "wait til next year" is less acceptable.

I watched a pretty crummey team in the 70's and 80's figuring at some point it would turn around. I can't have that kind of optimism unless I'm moving to Toronto.

[Jan Reimers]

I think that the Bills staying in Buffalo is becoming less and less likely which means that "wait til next year" is less acceptable.

I watched a pretty crummey team in the 70's and 80's figuring at some point it would turn around. I can't have that kind of optimism unless I'm moving to Toronto.
Oh, it's not acceptable to me, either. I want to win desperately. I just like to stay optimistic until the reality of another wasted season hits me in the face.

[Goobylal]

Wow, we replaced a guy with 15 recetions, 215 yards, 7 yard YPC, and 2 TDs last year with a guy who has 25 catches 258 yards, 3.6 YPC and 2 TDs.

Gaines and Anderson came in the league at the same time and over 3 years have almost identical stats. Matter-of-fact Gaines has a better YPC which means he actually spread the field better.
Where did you get your numbers? Gaines had 25 catches for an 8.6 YPC average and Anderson's average was 11.4. And Anderson's numbers were with arguably the worst offense in NFL history (they scored 10.5 PPG).

[acehole]

Where did you get your numbers? Gaines had 25 catches for an 8.6 YPC average and Anderson's average was 11.4. And Anderson's numbers were with arguably the worst offense in NFL history (they scored 10.5 PPG).

Good they can match our current starting qb's ratings and we can have a suckfest....

[Goobylal]

Good they can match our current starting qb's ratings and we can have a suckfest....
Eh, not so fast. While I still need to see more out of Trent, I can definitely say he's better than what the Raiders had in 2006. Adding more solid players around him will only help him, as it would have JP, but that is now water under the bridge.

Looks like the Bills are going towards larger players on offense, given they drafted a drafted a 6'5" WR, another WR who is 6'2", and added another UDFA who is 6'1", drafted a 6'3" TE, and signed 2-6'6" TE's over the off-season. And Edwards is 6'4".

[theanswer74]

You and I both know that these are second tier players.

Well what point are you trying to make? You say they ignored the TE position, which they didnt. Then you say they didnt add size, which they did. Then you say the guys they added are second tier.

I didnt think there was a TE worth trading picks for in the draft.

[acehole]

Eh, not so fast. While I still need to see more out of Trent, I can definitely say he's better than what the Raiders had in 2006. Adding more solid players around him will only help him, as it would have JP, but that is now water under the bridge.

Looks like the Bills are going towards larger players on offense, given they drafted a drafted a 6'5" WR, another WR who is 6'2", and added another UDFA who is 6'1", drafted a 6'3" TE, and signed 2-6'6" TE's over the off-season. And Edwards is 6'4".

better cold weather players is the idea...we dont have a dome where parish can dart around.....

[feelthepain]

Justa, this is a good point. However, the argumnet on Trent wasn't that he wasn't a good choice it was just that we didn't need him. Nobody, including me, expected JP to implode.


I just feel like there were so many more better players at TE and we should have gone back to get one. If the Bills were already a playoff team than I might feel differently about this draft in genereal.

Not many outside of Bill fans expected anything else.

[feelthepain]

The Bills have drafted well and seem to be improving so I have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they see things that I don't.

What exactly are you considering in this evaluation? Where do you see improvments?

[Night Train]

I remember the Mike Williams draft being praised !

Check back in 3-4 years.

[yordad]

Schouman is 6'2" and 223#. Fine is 6'3" and 251#. Fine can block, Schouman can't.Schouman is listed at 223 on BB.com, but 247 lbs on NFL.com. IMO, he looks bigger then 223 guys. :idunno:
http://www.nfl.com/players/derekschouman/profile?id=SCH487485

[yordad]

I am not sure how you could have misconstrued his first post so horribly.

Where in there does it state he thinks that picks past round 3 are worthless? To me it sounds like a jab at the draft know it alls in this place that hear names constantly and think we screwed up because we didn't pick them up.Did I miss his not so subtle jab at everyone who posted in here previous to him? Am I not noticing your not so subtle jab now?

:stopsign:

[Goobylal]

Schouman is listed at 223 on BB.com, but 247 lbs on NFL.com. IMO, he looks bigger then 223 guys. :idunno:
http://www.nfl.com/players/derekschouman/profile?id=SCH487485
If I'm not mistaken, BB.com posts players' weights after their periodic weigh-ins. So I'd go with them.

[hydro]

Did I miss his not so subtle jab at everyone who posted in here previous to him? Am I not noticing your not so subtle jab now?

:stopsign:

:huh: