What position will the Defense end up in total yardage allowed this season??

[Mitchy moo]

Where will the Bills end up in Total yardage allowed this season??

[Mitchy moo]

I took 6-10, I think we will get that much better this year via are upgrades / previous players experience / and who we are playing this season.

[DraftBoy]

22-27....still have questions about our pass defense

[The Answer]

I still think we will be middle of the pack in terms of yardage yielded.

I'm more concerned on where we are going to end up in terms of total sacks and turnovers because those are the only stats that matter really.

~The Answer

[PECKERWOOD]

I still think we will be middle of the pack in terms of yardage yielded.

I'm more concerned on where we are going to end up in terms of total sacks and turnovers because those are the only stats that matter really.

~The Answer

Same here, I'm thinking 17-21 range, probably closer to 17 than to 21, though. I can't say I would be disappointed to be ranked 17th over last year's 31st.

[venis2k1]

22-27....still have questions about our pass defense

We still have huge questions about our run defense.

[Mitchy moo]

We still have huge questions about our run defense.

We also had backups in most of last year as well and have since added experience and depth on our roster. Our CB situation looks quite brighter especially after getting violated like a white mouse all last year as well.

[feelthepain]

We also had backups in most of last year as well and have since added experience and depth on our roster. Our CB situation looks quite brighter especially after getting violated like a white mouse all last year as well.

Skoob what about 06? Did the Bills have backups play all year then too? Common man, this excuse about backups...did the so called "backups" replace one single probowl type player? One Superstar? One sure fire can't miss talent?? No, not one. The Bills injuries last years were hardly great talent, it's not like had they had those players in the lineup the Bills would suddeny have been a 14-2 team. I really wish a Bill fan would post a list of all this great talent and their accomplishments to the NFL so we can see who it is the Bills really lost to injury.

Obviously since the players the Bills lost last year was such a big deal then you should have no problem providing they're stats and how the players have been enormus talent in the league making them tremendous loses in 07.

[Scumbag College]

17-21, the defense has to be better with the additions and the offense will be better with time of possession, thus helping the D's stats.

[Mitchy moo]

Skoob what about 06? Did the Bills have backups play all year then too? Common man, this excuse about backups...did the so called "backups" replace one single probowl type player? One Superstar? One sure fire can't miss talent?? No, not one. The Bills injuries last years were hardly great talent, it's not like had they had those players in the lineup the Bills would suddeny have been a 14-2 team. I really wish a Bill fan would post a list of all this great talent and their accomplishments to the NFL so we can see who it is the Bills really lost to injury.

Obviously since the players the Bills lost last year was such a big deal then you should have no problem providing they're stats and how the players have been enormus talent in the league making them tremendous loses in 07.

You're right about 2006 FTP but the back-ups got us to 7-9 last season and your team to 1-15. So which team is more poised for success this season?

One other thing, those 2006 Bills starters still swept your team.

[feelthepain]

You're right about 2006 FTP but the back-ups got us to 7-9 last season and your team to 1-15. So which team is more poised for success this season?

One other thing, those 2006 Bills starters still swept your team.
The difference in last year for the Bills and Dolphins is we lose players like Ronnie Brwon, Chris Chambers, Trent Green, Zach Thomas and Yeremiah Bell. The Bills lose who??? Show this list that kept the Bills form being a playoff team. That is your argument, is it not? If you had the players that were injured the Bills would have been a playoff team? Which players were they? Who missed games that would have made that difference?

Bill fans want everyone to believe all these mystery players will return in 08 and suddenly the Bills will be a playoff team. Who are they and what have they done to make Bill fans think they were such huge loses in 08? From what I remember the 30th ranked Bills offense was basically healthy. So that would mean Bill fans believe their 30th ranked offense will suddenly be a top 15 thanks to the addition of Hardy??? One would think they'd have to be at least top 15 to be a playoff team.

Or are you telling me the Bills 31st ranked defense is now a top 5 defense therefore the Bills offense just has to keep from turning the ball over and the Bills defense will dominate every game and make up for the Bills weak offense? I'm just trying to see realistically where the Bills have improved their team so much that they'll be a playoff team.

As for the Bills sweeping the Dolphins the last 2 years, you do realize the Dolphins outplayed the Bills in both games in Miami the past 2 years and it's pure luck the Bills won those 2 games? Hey it happens, division games are hardly proof one team is better then the other. The Dolphins have had their share of success against the Pats in the last 7 years....are we better then the Pats? I don't think so.

[Mitchy moo]

The difference in last year for the Bills and Dolphins is we lose players like Ronnie Brwon, Chris Chambers, Trent Green, Zach Thomas and Yeremiah Bell. The Bills lose who??? Show this list that kept the Bills form being a playoff team. That is your argument, is it not? If you had the players that were injured the Bills would have been a playoff team? Which players were they? Who missed games that would have made that difference?

Bill fans want everyone to believe all these mystery players will return in 08 and suddenly the Bills will be a playoff team. Who are they and what have they done to make Bill fans think they were such huge loses in 08? From what I remember the 30th ranked Bills offense was basically healthy. So that would mean Bill fans believe their 30th ranked offense will suddenly be a top 15 thanks to the addition of Hardy??? One would think they'd have to be at least top 15 to be a playoff team.

Or are you telling me the Bills 31st ranked defense is now a top 5 defense therefore the Bills offense just has to keep from turning the ball over and the Bills defense will dominate every game and make up for the Bills weak offense? I'm just trying to see realistically where the Bills have improved their team so much that they'll be a playoff team.

As for the Bills sweeping the Dolphins the last 2 years, you do realize the Dolphins outplayed the Bills in both games in Miami the past 2 years and it's pure luck the Bills won those 2 games? Hey it happens, division games are hardly proof one team is better then the other. The Dolphins have had their share of success against the Pats in the last 7 years....are we better then the Pats? I don't think so.

I sat in a box for both those games in Miami, the Bills literally smothered any semblence of offense your team had. To even think that you we're going to win either game is just delusional at best.

[feelthepain]

I sat in a box for both those games in Miami, the Bills literally smothered any semblence of offense your team had. To even think that you we're going to win either game is just delusional at best.
You're so full of crap skoob!!!

2006 Bills @ Dolphins-

Bills- 171 net yards, time of possesion 30:59

Dolphins - 282 net yards, time of possesion 29:01


2007 Bills @ Dolphins-

Bills- 214 net yards time of possesion 23:01

Dolphins- 269 net yards time of possesion 36:59

I neither game were the Dolphins "smothered" by the Bills infact overall, the Dolphins held the ball longer and had better offensive numbers in both games.
In those 2 games the Dolphins rushed for almost 300 yards and passed for nearly 400. On th flip side the Bills threw for just over 200 and rushed for just over 150 yards....but we were smothered??? Seriously Skoob, you're laughable.

[yordad]

The difference in last year for the Bills and Dolphins is we lose players like Ronnie Brwon, Chris Chambers, Trent Green, Zach Thomas and Yeremiah Bell. The Bills lose who??? Show this list that kept the Bills form being a playoff team. That is your argument, is it not? If you had the players that were injured the Bills would have been a playoff team? Which players were they? Who missed games that would have made that difference?

Bill fans want everyone to believe all these mystery players will return in 08 and suddenly the Bills will be a playoff team. Who are they and what have they done to make Bill fans think they were such huge loses in 08? From what I remember the 30th ranked Bills offense was basically healthy. So that would mean Bill fans believe their 30th ranked offense will suddenly be a top 15 thanks to the addition of Hardy??? One would think they'd have to be at least top 15 to be a playoff team.

Or are you telling me the Bills 31st ranked defense is now a top 5 defense therefore the Bills offense just has to keep from turning the ball over and the Bills defense will dominate every game and make up for the Bills weak offense? I'm just trying to see realistically where the Bills have improved their team so much that they'll be a playoff team.

As for the Bills sweeping the Dolphins the last 2 years, you do realize the Dolphins outplayed the Bills in both games in Miami the past 2 years and it's pure luck the Bills won those 2 games? Hey it happens, division games are hardly proof one team is better then the other. The Dolphins have had their share of success against the Pats in the last 7 years....are we better then the Pats? I don't think so.Why are you still naming players you lost for good? And, if you think Bell is your savior, than that is laughable. Simpson's return alone out weights that. Simpson's first year was more impressive then Bells third.

I mean, after all, your trying to say the Dolphins are as good as the Bills right? Well, they were 1-15 last year. How did they get better? Who is returning? What is different? Who are your new starters?

[feelthepain]

Why are you still naming players you lost for good? And, if you think Bell is your savior, than that is laughable. Simpson's return alone out weights that. Simpson's first year was more impressive then Bells third.

I mean, after all, your trying to say the Dolphins are as good as the Bills right? Well, they were 1-15 last year. How did they get better? Who is returning? What is different? Who are your new starters?

Hell BP alone makes us better I don't even need to go over the roster!!

[YardRat]

I'm thinking realistically somewhere in the 22-27 range, a lot closer to 22, if we're talking yardage. Points against-wise, we have the ability on paper to be top 10.

[Mitchy moo]

You're so full of crap skoob!!!

2006 Bills @ Dolphins-

Bills- 171 net yards, time of possesion 30:59

Dolphins - 282 net yards, time of possesion 29:01


2007 Bills @ Dolphins-

Bills- 214 net yards time of possesion 23:01

Dolphins- 269 net yards time of possesion 36:59

I neither game were the Dolphins "smothered" by the Bills infact overall, the Dolphins held the ball longer and had better offensive numbers in both games.
In those 2 games the Dolphins rushed for almost 300 yards and passed for nearly 400. On th flip side the Bills threw for just over 200 and rushed for just over 150 yards....but we were smothered??? Seriously Skoob, you're laughable.

How many sacks did the Bills have?? We won the 06' game by 10 points and Miami scored with almost no time left, so the game was over.

We scored 51 total points on your team last season, you guys scored 27 / about half as many total. If that's close in your mind, I keep off your meds.

[yordad]

Hell BP alone makes us better I don't even need to go over the roster!!The only way BP gets you any better is if he gets you a better roster. I mean, he ain't no QB.

[feelthepain]

How many sacks did the Bills have?? We won the 06' game by 10 points and Miami scored with almost no time left, so the game was over.

We scored 51 total points on your team last season, you guys scored 27 / about half as many total. If that's close in your mind, I keep off your meds.

Sacks are fine but we still put up better offensive numbers then the Bills in both those games in Miami and we should have won both those games. You want to focus on points scored last year, how many points did the Pats put on the Bills in 2 games?? 94? At the same time they put just 77 on the Dolphins. We also scored 35 against the pats while the Bills just 17. That would be a 42 point differential aginst us and the Pats while it was a 77 point differential aginst the Bills and Pats.

If you look at those numbers the Dolphins played an 18-1 team much better then your Bills did. The point, you homer Bill fans want to look at a 1-15 team and talk trash about beating them like it makes your team supirior or it means next year will be the same, but when it comes to playing the best team in the league your team was smoked....badly!!! That's where you judge how good your team is, against the best in the league.

[feelthepain]

The only way BP gets you any better is if he gets you a better roster. I mean, he ain't no QB.

Miami will in better physical shape thanks to BP traning program and we will be much more disciplined not to metion we are already much younger and much bigger then were were all of last year. Here is a list of changes the Dolphins have made since the end of 07.

TRANSITION PLAYER: None.
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:

• LG Chris Liwienski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4436/;_ylt=AmYDIAUYD0r_b78qGKT25qbsrZJ4) was benched at the end of season. Decent backup, but certainly not worth big bucks.
• G Gene Mruczkowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7029/;_ylt=AhlqK8mKy9UM_jdxU4tvLxHsrZJ4) was snatched from the Patriots; a backup without much value.
• OT Mike Rosenthal (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4799/;_ylt=AjH7KIS9..ZdKXfi_kaXiUbsrZJ4) didn’t play a down in 2007 due to shoulder injury.
• S Lance Schulters (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4348/;_ylt=Amvm3V00Ua0_XoG58AuJEXDsrZJ4) was signed at the end of season, but at 32 is way past prime.
• LB Donnie Spragan (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6198/;_ylt=AqshCPRaOMvOkK5Fgg8YUTnsrZJ4) is going on 32 and doesn’t add much to the defense.
• S Travares Tillman (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5087/;_ylt=ApaKt648JyQ7ghEdn2pZfJfsrZJ4) ended another year on injured reserve with a knee injury. Unlikely to return.
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS (not tendered offers)
• RB Samkon Gado (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7532/;_ylt=As8wx8Yg5Gx1l0hNR10QMPPsrZJ4) (not tendered as RFA) was signed because of a myriad of injuries. Little shot of returning.
• G Cory Lekkerkerker (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7535/;_ylt=Alcca26POa.QLSJb1sHMZQXsrZJ4) (not tendered as ERFA) was mostly a backup who got two starts when Liwienski faltered.
• DT Chase Page (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7974/;_ylt=Aj8vVlf94iB9RUv_AExDPwnsrZJ4) (not tendered as ERFA) finished on IR with shoulder surgery.





Didn’t show much.


RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS: None.


EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS FREE AGENTS: None.


DRAFT CHOICES SIGNED
• OT Jake Long (1/1): $57M/5 yrs, $30M guaranteed.


PLAYERS ACQUIRED
• LB Charlie Anderson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6959/;_ylt=Aj9tPfWG5910hk7HAS5XT1_srZJ4): UFA Texans; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• LB Akin Ayodele (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5975/;_ylt=AhnSfrWMcqhPwGUzO5OT3pbsrZJ4) (trade Cowboys).
• S Chris Crocker (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6420/;_ylt=AsOxqrMaOMlt2IQpTVVcDo3srZJ4): UFA Falcons; 1.15M/1 yr, $300,000 SB.
• S Keith Davis (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6269/;_ylt=AuO8PyS1JP4yuFeiY609vxTsrZJ4): UFA Cowboys; 2 yrs, terms unknown.
• TE Anthony Fasano (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7802/;_ylt=ApaMyH.ubLXlT4dlmGzavjzsrZJ4) (trade Cowboys).
• FB Boomer Grigsby (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7314/;_ylt=AiCPdxufUwjWXDrGdgG.p3fsrZJ4): Not tendered as RFA by Chiefs; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• NT Jason Ferguson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4029/;_ylt=AsnJKOhEaaHC34WB4I2GJLXsrZJ4) (traded Cowboys).
• CB Nate Jones: UFA Cowboys; 2 yrs, terms unknown.
• QB Josh McCown (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5967/;_ylt=AnzNTlNQUii8_u.U9If_dlbsrZJ4): UFA Raiders; $6.25M/2 yrs, $2.5M SB.
• WR Tab Perry: Not tendered as RFA by Bengals; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• K Dave Rayner (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7378/;_ylt=AhcD9f5p_GYQRyXiKXyuiKrsrZJ4): Not tendered as RFA by Chargers; terms unknown.
• TE Sean Ryan (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6903/;_ylt=AmDQPw.7mTfU4dHhpiCZNi3srZJ4): UFA Jets; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• G Justin Smiley (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6805/;_ylt=AuixcA98VQpjmydQjzTGG8XsrZJ4): UFA 49ers; $25M/5 yrs, $9M guaranteed.
• DT Randy Starks (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6830/;_ylt=Agz95.arS8tRtCEWxa6QcqTsrZJ4): UFA Titans; $21M/5 yrs, $7M guaranteed.
• SLB Reggie Torbor (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6856/;_ylt=AjuRQKBfdblTiHIuWgsLZYnsrZJ4): UFA Giants; $14M/4 yrs, $5M guaranteed.
• WR Ernest Wilford: UFA Jaguars; $13M/4 yrs, $6M guaranteed.




PLAYERS RE-SIGNED
• S Yeremiah Bell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6549/;_ylt=AplbiTN_AKHVqhgx5L16Ri3srZJ4): UFA; $1.4M/1 yr.
• WR Greg Camarillo: ERFA; terms unknown.
• RB Patrick Cobbs (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8011/;_ylt=AmBOpEDyS22NBeJxkYlrmgnsrZJ4): ERFA; terms unknown.
• CB Michael Lehan (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6488/;_ylt=Ai1V4S46yzZ9o6vuB6pCvznsrZJ4): Potential UFA; $4.95M/3 yrs, SB unknown.
• G Ikechuku Ndukwe (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7683/;_ylt=ArUF2WS8XDs0nJTKO_q2UlHsrZJ4): ERFA; terms unknown.




PLAYERS LOST
• RB Lorenzo Booker (traded Eagles).
• WR Marty Booker (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4728/;_ylt=AkhaO1dcZzsdWJpuIUcwb7nsrZJ4) (released).

• RB Jesse Chatman (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6189/;_ylt=AmmeLZzDRY5kV7GhtUHR.pzsrZJ4): UFA Jets; 1 yr, terms unknown.

• G Rex Hadnot (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6933/;_ylt=Aq4RfvWQ2DZD4Tj6qUSO.aLsrZJ4): UFA Browns; $7M/2 yrs, $3.5M guaranteed.
• QB Cleo Lemon (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7026/;_ylt=AntnZ0nSHzlQIB19udfORhPsrZJ4): UFA Jaguars; $8.1M/3 yrs, $2.95M SB.
• LB Derrick Pope (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6981/;_ylt=AtFWA72RT7PPoSKdNO99p_vsrZJ4): UFA Vikings; terms unknown.
• OT L.J. Shelton (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4670/;_ylt=Ap.smf8qQWbli81hU5EFFuzsrZJ4) (released).
• LB Zach Thomas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3569/;_ylt=Anp3aWQ.dRMRquiJdmDJ5bHsrZJ4) (released).
• OL Joe Toledo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7863/;_ylt=Au4Wm9Uc5_YZsv9mbxVOwu3srZJ4) (released).
• DT Keith Traylor (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/1487/;_ylt=AjrI_4nwq5gf_UrnkxFE0aLsrZJ4) (released).
• S Cameron Worrell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6615/;_ylt=Aho7VCeulxvt4agXpI48XafsrZJ4) (released/failed physical).

[djjimkelly]

Skoob what about 06? Did the Bills have backups play all year then too? Common man, this excuse about backups...did the so called "backups" replace one single probowl type player? One Superstar? One sure fire can't miss talent?? No, not one. The Bills injuries last years were hardly great talent, it's not like had they had those players in the lineup the Bills would suddeny have been a 14-2 team. I really wish a Bill fan would post a list of all this great talent and their accomplishments to the NFL so we can see who it is the Bills really lost to injury.

Obviously since the players the Bills lost last year was such a big deal then you should have no problem providing they're stats and how the players have been enormus talent in the league making them tremendous loses in 07.


i posted this during the season KO simpson and POZ was the only real injuries the bills had IMO the rest of the people was a bunch of nobodys.

i think both players would have helped alot on the D im sure simpson finishing that game had he been in there.

however he might not have made a couple of the big picks that george wilson made i think it levels itself out. people need to realize this team is what its ranking is next to last on D

i think we will improve becuz of a few players like stroud simpson and poz however it doesnt change the crap scheme we run and we will be IMO about 25th this year on D

[jamze132]

Miami will in better physical shape thanks to BP traning program and we will be much more disciplined not to metion we are already much younger and much bigger then were were all of last year. Here is a list of changes the Dolphins have made since the end of 07.


As you would say, that is an ASSUMPTION.

[Mitchy moo]

Sacks are fine but we still put up better offensive numbers then the Bills in both those games in Miami and we should have won both those games. You want to focus on points scored last year, how many points did the Pats put on the Bills in 2 games?? 94? At the same time they put just 77 on the Dolphins. We also scored 35 against the pats while the Bills just 17. That would be a 42 point differential aginst us and the Pats while it was a 77 point differential aginst the Bills and Pats.

If you look at those numbers the Dolphins played an 18-1 team much better then your Bills did. The point, you homer Bill fans want to look at a 1-15 team and talk trash about beating them like it makes your team supirior or it means next year will be the same, but when it comes to playing the best team in the league your team was smoked....badly!!! That's where you judge how good your team is, against the best in the league.

I always love that we lost better argument, either way you lost and it wasn't a nail biter.

[Dujek]

11-16. Top half of the league, but not an elite unit. Yet.

[yordad]

Miami will in better physical shape thanks to BP traning program and we will be much more disciplined not to metion we are already much younger and much bigger then were were all of last year. Here is a list of changes the Dolphins have made since the end of 07.

TRANSITION PLAYER: None.
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:

• LG Chris Liwienski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4436/;_ylt=AmYDIAUYD0r_b78qGKT25qbsrZJ4) was benched at the end of season. Decent backup, but certainly not worth big bucks.
• G Gene Mruczkowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7029/;_ylt=AhlqK8mKy9UM_jdxU4tvLxHsrZJ4) was snatched from the Patriots; a backup without much value.
• OT Mike Rosenthal (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4799/;_ylt=AjH7KIS9..ZdKXfi_kaXiUbsrZJ4) didn’t play a down in 2007 due to shoulder injury.
• S Lance Schulters (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4348/;_ylt=Amvm3V00Ua0_XoG58AuJEXDsrZJ4) was signed at the end of season, but at 32 is way past prime.
• LB Donnie Spragan (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6198/;_ylt=AqshCPRaOMvOkK5Fgg8YUTnsrZJ4) is going on 32 and doesn’t add much to the defense.
• S Travares Tillman (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5087/;_ylt=ApaKt648JyQ7ghEdn2pZfJfsrZJ4) ended another year on injured reserve with a knee injury. Unlikely to return.
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS (not tendered offers)
• RB Samkon Gado (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7532/;_ylt=As8wx8Yg5Gx1l0hNR10QMPPsrZJ4) (not tendered as RFA) was signed because of a myriad of injuries. Little shot of returning.
• G Cory Lekkerkerker (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7535/;_ylt=Alcca26POa.QLSJb1sHMZQXsrZJ4) (not tendered as ERFA) was mostly a backup who got two starts when Liwienski faltered.
• DT Chase Page (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7974/;_ylt=Aj8vVlf94iB9RUv_AExDPwnsrZJ4) (not tendered as ERFA) finished on IR with shoulder surgery.





Didn’t show much.


RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS: None.


EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS FREE AGENTS: None.


DRAFT CHOICES SIGNED
• OT Jake Long (1/1): $57M/5 yrs, $30M guaranteed.


PLAYERS ACQUIRED
• LB Charlie Anderson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6959/;_ylt=Aj9tPfWG5910hk7HAS5XT1_srZJ4): UFA Texans; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• LB Akin Ayodele (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5975/;_ylt=AhnSfrWMcqhPwGUzO5OT3pbsrZJ4) (trade Cowboys).
• S Chris Crocker (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6420/;_ylt=AsOxqrMaOMlt2IQpTVVcDo3srZJ4): UFA Falcons; 1.15M/1 yr, $300,000 SB.
• S Keith Davis (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6269/;_ylt=AuO8PyS1JP4yuFeiY609vxTsrZJ4): UFA Cowboys; 2 yrs, terms unknown.
• TE Anthony Fasano (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7802/;_ylt=ApaMyH.ubLXlT4dlmGzavjzsrZJ4) (trade Cowboys).
• FB Boomer Grigsby (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7314/;_ylt=AiCPdxufUwjWXDrGdgG.p3fsrZJ4): Not tendered as RFA by Chiefs; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• NT Jason Ferguson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4029/;_ylt=AsnJKOhEaaHC34WB4I2GJLXsrZJ4) (traded Cowboys).
• CB Nate Jones: UFA Cowboys; 2 yrs, terms unknown.
• QB Josh McCown (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5967/;_ylt=AnzNTlNQUii8_u.U9If_dlbsrZJ4): UFA Raiders; $6.25M/2 yrs, $2.5M SB.
• WR Tab Perry: Not tendered as RFA by Bengals; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• K Dave Rayner (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7378/;_ylt=AhcD9f5p_GYQRyXiKXyuiKrsrZJ4): Not tendered as RFA by Chargers; terms unknown.
• TE Sean Ryan (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6903/;_ylt=AmDQPw.7mTfU4dHhpiCZNi3srZJ4): UFA Jets; 1 yr, terms unknown.
• G Justin Smiley (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6805/;_ylt=AuixcA98VQpjmydQjzTGG8XsrZJ4): UFA 49ers; $25M/5 yrs, $9M guaranteed.
• DT Randy Starks (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6830/;_ylt=Agz95.arS8tRtCEWxa6QcqTsrZJ4): UFA Titans; $21M/5 yrs, $7M guaranteed.
• SLB Reggie Torbor (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6856/;_ylt=AjuRQKBfdblTiHIuWgsLZYnsrZJ4): UFA Giants; $14M/4 yrs, $5M guaranteed.
• WR Ernest Wilford: UFA Jaguars; $13M/4 yrs, $6M guaranteed.




PLAYERS RE-SIGNED
• S Yeremiah Bell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6549/;_ylt=AplbiTN_AKHVqhgx5L16Ri3srZJ4): UFA; $1.4M/1 yr.
• WR Greg Camarillo: ERFA; terms unknown.
• RB Patrick Cobbs (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8011/;_ylt=AmBOpEDyS22NBeJxkYlrmgnsrZJ4): ERFA; terms unknown.
• CB Michael Lehan (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6488/;_ylt=Ai1V4S46yzZ9o6vuB6pCvznsrZJ4): Potential UFA; $4.95M/3 yrs, SB unknown.
• G Ikechuku Ndukwe (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7683/;_ylt=ArUF2WS8XDs0nJTKO_q2UlHsrZJ4): ERFA; terms unknown.




PLAYERS LOST
• RB Lorenzo Booker (traded Eagles).
• WR Marty Booker (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4728/;_ylt=AkhaO1dcZzsdWJpuIUcwb7nsrZJ4) (released).

• RB Jesse Chatman (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6189/;_ylt=AmmeLZzDRY5kV7GhtUHR.pzsrZJ4): UFA Jets; 1 yr, terms unknown.

• G Rex Hadnot (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6933/;_ylt=Aq4RfvWQ2DZD4Tj6qUSO.aLsrZJ4): UFA Browns; $7M/2 yrs, $3.5M guaranteed.
• QB Cleo Lemon (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7026/;_ylt=AntnZ0nSHzlQIB19udfORhPsrZJ4): UFA Jaguars; $8.1M/3 yrs, $2.95M SB.
• LB Derrick Pope (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6981/;_ylt=AtFWA72RT7PPoSKdNO99p_vsrZJ4): UFA Vikings; terms unknown.
• OT L.J. Shelton (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4670/;_ylt=Ap.smf8qQWbli81hU5EFFuzsrZJ4) (released).
• LB Zach Thomas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3569/;_ylt=Anp3aWQ.dRMRquiJdmDJ5bHsrZJ4) (released).
• OL Joe Toledo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7863/;_ylt=Au4Wm9Uc5_YZsv9mbxVOwu3srZJ4) (released).
• DT Keith Traylor (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/1487/;_ylt=AjrI_4nwq5gf_UrnkxFE0aLsrZJ4) (released).
• S Cameron Worrell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6615/;_ylt=Aho7VCeulxvt4agXpI48XafsrZJ4) (released/failed physical).So, where is your up grade again? :idunno:

[feelthepain]

I always love that we lost better argument, either way you lost and it wasn't a nail biter.
As I love the "we beat you last year. that means we'll beat you this year" argument.

[yordad]

As I love the "we beat you last year. that means we'll beat you this year" argument.I love it too. Sounds pretty valid in this case though. Wouldn't you think? I bet even you would bet on the Bills if you were being half honest.

[feelthepain]

I love it too. Sounds pretty valid in this case though. Wouldn't you think? I bet even you would bet on the Bills if you were being half honest.

Nope, I don't respect the talent the Bills have. The Only player I think the Bills have that's legit is Lynch.

[Romes]

Nope, I don't respect the talent the Bills have. The Only player I think the Bills have that's legit is Lynch.

Just out of curiousity, who do you think is a legit player on the Dolphins?

[feelthepain]

Just out of curiousity, who do you think is a legit player on the Dolphins?

JT.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I still think we will be middle of the pack in terms of yardage yielded.

I'm more concerned on where we are going to end up in terms of total sacks and turnovers because those are the only stats that matter really.

~The Answer

While I agree with you about the Bills likely being in the middle of the pack in terms of yardage yielded, I vehemently disagree with you about sacks and turnovers being the only stats that really matter--the only two stats that really matter for a defense are: POINTS ALLOWED and WINS


After finishing in the middle of the pack in the first of these categories last season, I see the Bills bouncing back and making it back into the Top 10 in fewest points allowed this year, if they can stay healthy.

If they do that, I believe that the wins will follow with the offense gradually adjusting and being more productive as the season progresses.


(Question: Why was FTP allowed to turn this thread into a discussion about the Dolphins and their offseason? In case you haven't noticed, FTP, this is a Bills messageboard, if you want to trumpet how much better the Miami team has gotten--or how much they suffered last season--why don't you go to Fin Heaven to do that? I'm sure there are plenty of Miami fans there who will be very interested in what you have to say.

However, I think I speak for a lot of Bills fans here when I say that, frankly, I don't care what you think of the Bills "no-name" roster--because nothing that you can say can change the fact that last year those "no-name" Bills were superior to your team in that second "most important statistic" that I cited above: WINS. And, two of the wins that the Bills posted last year came against your team.

Cry all you want about the losses your team suffered, cite all the stats that you want, at the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that the Bills won both of the games that they played against your team. And, that is all that matters. While it is true that that doesn't serve as a predictor of what will happen in the future, nevertheless, it is still something that you can't change, no matter how much you try to disrupt the discussions that Bills fans are having with one another about the Bills on this board.)

[yordad]

LTBF, not only do I think you are the most respected poster on these board, you are the one who's opinion I respect the most. And, I gotta tell ya, when you talk smack (which actaully sounds a whole lot like fact) I get a pretty nice size smile kickin'. :cheersasubuymeadrink,whileInoticeudidn'tvote,lol:

[feelthepain]

(Question: Why was FTP allowed to turn this thread into a discussion about the Dolphins and their offseason? In case you haven't noticed, FTP, this is a Bills messageboard, if you want to trumpet how much better the Miami team has gotten--or how much they suffered last season--why don't you go to Fin Heaven to do that? I'm sure there are plenty of Miami fans there who will be very interested in what you have to say.

(Answer: I didn't turn this thread into a discussion about the Dolphins, as usual if I question anything about the Bill, Bill fans are the ones who want to compare their team to the Dolphins. My first post in this thread had nothing to do with the Dolphins. If you could read you'd see that, obviously you can't read.


However, I think I speak for a lot of Bills fans here when I say that, frankly, I don't care what you think of the Bills "no-name" roster--because nothing that you can say can change the fact that last year those "no-name" Bills were superior to your team in that second "most important statistic" that I cited above: WINS. And, two of the wins that the Bills posted last year came against your team.

I'm sorry all I read in the paragraph was...boo hooo, someone is picking on my team...sniff sniff. Dude, your team is 2 games below 500. or worse for the last 5 years and you think your team is on the cusp of success. You as many Bill fans think because you finished second in the division that puts the Bills on another level. When in reality where the Bills finished was by default. Lets be honest the Bills success last was hardly worthy of conversation.

You can believe whatever you want, you can make all the claims of improvements you want, it doesn't make it true. Other people watch football and have done so for years. Other people know exactly where the Bills stand as a team in the NFL and there is a very small group that believes the Bills will do anything next year. Instead of understanding this and accepting it and taking the stance that you'll just wait for your team to prove success before you give it to them. You want to prance around and demand respect for a team that was just plain awful last year.

Bill fan logic:

Having a 7-9 team and winning only 2 games out of the last 32 against successful teams, having the 30th and 31st ranked offense and defensive each of the last 2 years. Not being a playoff team since 99 or having a winning season since MM was their HC. Beating a 1-15 twice last year equates to a Bills team on the rise and poised to make a run at the division title and a playoff berth.

Now anyone else in this division using this same logic and Bill fans would call them homers, just plain blind, a stupid fan with no clue about football. However when Bill fans do this and someone comes along and questions their logic Bill fans get all offended. Seriously, not one post do you see me say the Bills WON'T be a playoff team or that there is no chance in hell the Bills make the playoffs or that Bill fans shouldn't hope for a playoff run. I say I doubt, or they have a small chace at best. All I do is try to is prove that the formula Bill fans use to prove projected success is different then the formula Bill fans use to determine everyone elses projected success. When I do, I always seem to hit a nerve, imagine that.



Cry all you want about the losses your team suffered, cite all the stats that you want, at the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that the Bills won both of the games that they played against your team. And, that is all that matters. While it is true that that doesn't serve as a predictor of what will happen in the future, nevertheless, it is still something that you can't change, no matter how much you try to disrupt the discussions that Bills fans are having with one another about the Bills on this board.)

Seems to me you're the ones crying. You demand respect for a team that was 2 games below 500. with nearly the worst offensive and defensive statistics in the league. You want to ignore those facts, but the Bills wins aginst the Dolphins PROVES how that's all it takes to make the Bills a playoff team on the verge of giving the Pats a run at the division title and a playoff berth. If anything the Bill fans are the ones who are irrational and illogical. Bill fans version of reality and what to expect is seriously skewed. When the fan of another team points that out, you cray about it. Find a thread , post or sentence where I say the Dolphins are better then the Bills or that the Dolphins will be a playoff team this year, cause you wont. Just because my team had a bad year I'm not allowed to point out the Bills flaws?? Please!

[LifetimeBillsFan]

...,and you think your team is on the cusp of success. You as many Bill fans think because you finished second in the division that puts the Bills on another level. When in reality where the Bills finished was by default. Lets be honest the Bills success last was hardly worthy of conversation.

...Other people watch football and have done so for years. Other people know exactly where the Bills stand as a team in the NFL and there is a very small group that believes the Bills will do anything next year. Instead of understanding this and accepting it and taking the stance that you'll just wait for your team to prove success before you give it to them. You want to prance around and demand respect for a team that was just plain awful last year....

Seems to me you're the ones crying. You demand respect for a team that was 2 games below 500. with nearly the worst offensive and defensive statistics in the league. You want to ignore those facts, but the Bills wins aginst the Dolphins PROVES how that's all it takes to make the Bills a playoff team on the verge of giving the Pats a run at the division title and a playoff berth. If anything the Bill fans are the ones who are irrational and illogical. Bill fans version of reality and what to expect is seriously skewed. When the fan of another team points that out, you cray about it. Find a thread , post or sentence where I say the Dolphins are better then the Bills or that the Dolphins will be a playoff team this year, cause you wont. Just because my team had a bad year I'm not allowed to point out the Bills flaws?? Please!


I've been watching professional football (NFL, AFL, CFL, USFL, etc.) since 1958. I played the sport up through the college level, after that, I got paid to play another sport and, having worked for a NFL team (albeit in a menial capacity), have been around NFL and college players and coaches over the course of many years. So, please don't tell me that I don't know the game as well as you or what I am talking about.

Now, if you have read my articles on the BZ front page or posts, you will know that, while being positive, I have taken a very realistic--and at times, when warranted, harsh--view of the Bills and their prospects--pointing out in a post on the same day as my response in this thread that the team is still young and has holes that must be addressed.

But, I have also been around long enough to recognize that the Bills are putting together a nice, solid core of young players who, while they still have a lot to prove, have the potential to develop into a serious playoff contender in the future. Nowhere have I stated--anywhere--that the Bills are ready yet to contend with or surpass the Patriots for supreamacy in the AFC East, let alone for a Super Bowl. So, don't mistake me for those who might get carried away with their passion and optimism.

You can say what you want about the fact that the Bills did not beat a team with a winning record last season, but those who have been around team sports for a long time will confirm that one way to recognize a young, rebuilding team (which I have often stated is what the Bills have been since the end of the 2005 season) that is on the rise is when the team consistently beats the teams that it is supposed to beat--which is what the Bills have done the last two seasons, with the sole exception being their loss to Detroit 2 years ago.

Now, obviously, the Bills have to take the next step and begin to win games against the better teams in the league. And, at this point, we do not know whether they will be able to do that. But, by the same token, we don't know that they won't, either.

Now, just as most Bills fans hope and believe that the Bills will be able to take that next step this season--for which you accuse them of being homers--you have consistently come to this messageboard to say that they can't or won't. So, what should we call you? (I have some suggestions, but I will keep them to myself.)

But, more importantly, why do you feel that it is necessary to come to a messageboard that is devoted to a team that you dislike to consistently present your negative view of that team? What does that do for you? The negative response to your comments--as evidenced by your negative rep points and the fact that you are constantly one of the top vote getters in the "Most Hated Poster", etc. poll--should tell you your consistently negative viewpoint is unappreciated or that your comments are so antipathetical as to be needlessly provocative (considering that I don't generally comment when people argue or talk smack, surely the fact that I am commenting in this instance should tell you something).

Now, is that your goal? Is that something that you perhaps consciously or sub-consciously get off on? Because, otherwise, why continue to do it?

You might want to think about that for a moment....

I'm a football fan. More specifically, I'm a Bills fan. I come to this board and I have no problems arguing about the strengths and weaknesses of the Bills. I don't mind people who don't agree with me. I even enjoy discussing the Bills with people like OpIv, HHurricane, etc. who have very negative views about the Bills ownership, franchise and the quality of the current team and coaching staff. I even enjoy discussing football with some of the fans of other teams that come here, like LtFinFan, CuseJetsFan, NE39, etc. because their presentations are logical and they are able to see and respect different points of view.

But, I never have the desire to go to a messageboard that is devoted to another team. Why would I? That's a place for fans of that team to discuss the team that they love and follow. And, more power to them. It's not my place. Nor does it make any sense for me to go there to criticize their team or the way that they view their team, let alone trumpet my team or compare my team to theirs. Because I'm old enough to know that the only thing that would serve to do is provoke a heated argument and I'm mature enough and secure enough in myself and my support for the Bills to know that doing that would serve no positive purpose.

Now, I'm not crying because you want to criticize the Bills. Nothing that you have said negatively about the Bills is anything that hasn't brought up by someone else on this messageboard in one way or another--minus, of course, the commentary about Miami's players/coaches, etc. and how superior they are to the Bills. Indeed, as I have pointed out, I have been critical of the Bills at times myself--in 2005, I accused several of the Bills veteran players of quitting during the second game of the season in an article on the BZ front page and repeated that charge again in subsequent articles (and, if you know anything about sports, you know that the worst thing you can say about a player is that he quit on his team and teammates).

I'm not objecting to the fact that you are criticizing the Bills or pointing out that they are young and still have weaknesses, etc.--I actually agree with some of those points. It is the way you consistently go about doing that which IMHO is tiresome, boring and, yes, offensive. And because I give you credit for being smart enough to know that this is how your comments are perceived, I have to question your motivation for continuing to come to this messageboard in the first place and for presenting your viewpoint as you do.

Finally, lest you disregard these comments as nothing more than those of a homer who is unhappy that you have criticized his team, let me end by giving you my take on the Bills:

The Bills are still a very young team that needs to add more play-makers in order to seriously contend with the top teams in the NFL. They are putting together a core of players who have the talent, ability and work-ethic to ultimately get to that level, but that core is still very young and inexperienced and, consequently, fragile.

Young, inexperienced players tend to make mistakes that can cost their teams games, particularly big games against more experienced, battle-tested opponents. While the Bills young players have shown strength and resiliency as a team that has allowed them to surpass expectations thus far, they are still relying on unproven first, second and third year players to fill key roles on both sides of the ball and those players have not been in the league long enough to demonstrate that they can get the job done consistently. Some will and will develop into stars; some won't and will be nothing more than average players.

There are two ways to look at this team that finished with 7 wins in each of the last two season despite ranking in the bottom of the offense and defense rankings: one is that the team was lucky to beat a lot of bad teams to win those 7 games, the other is that the team has an additional quality that allowed it to win more games than it was expected to despite finishing at the bottom of the rankings on offense and defense.

As I stated in my original post, I look at two things: points allowed and wins. And, looking at those two things leads me to accept the second view of the Bills above.

Why do I reject the first view and accept the second? Because, while the Bills finished near the bottom of rankings in both offense and defense, in 2006 the team finished 10th in fewest points allowed and last year slipped to 16th. It's hard to win games if you can't score and the Bills were much harder to score against than their total defense (yardage) statistics would indicate (actually, if you take out their games against the Pats and Steelers, the Bills were actually much better than even their 16th ranking in points allowed suggests).

Of course, the Bills didn't score much either. But, somehow, despite their obvious and admitted deficiencies on offense, they still managed to win 7 games and defeat all of the teams that they should have beaten.

So, what does that mean? From years of playing and observing sports and football in particular, it tells me that, if the Bills--and specifically their core players--make incremental improvements that can be expected from young players as they gain experience (I'm not talking about leaps of faith here) this season--and here the QB position will be critical--the team as a whole has a chance, especially with the strength of their schedule--to make a similarly incremental step forward, which will place the team at or on the cusp of the next level.

Could things go wrong to prevent that from happening? Of course! Injuries, slumps, the failure of players to develop as expected, etc. are all things that can keep any NFL team from achieving its potential as a unit. But, those things are not necessarily predictable at this stage and could happen to any NFL team (what happens to the Pats if Brady gets hit in Game # 1 and blows out his shoulder on his throwing arm?).

I'm not going to tell you that Miami is going to suck or that the Bills are certain to beat them twice. I don't know that either of those things will be the case. Because you've got to play the games.

But, what I am going to tell you is that, while the Bills still don't have enough play-makers or depth of talent or the consistent QB play necessary to challenge the Pats, Colts or Chargers as Super Bowl contenders in the AFC at this point, they are a team that has done what it needed to do thus far to have the capability to challenge for a playoff berth this season if they stay healthy and their young players continue to get better.

Will they be able to make the playoffs? We'll see. I think they have a shot. You may disagree. But, that's why they play the games...because the winners and losers are determined on the field, not on paper or by statistical analysis. And at this point we haven't even seen these teams on the practice field yet this year!

I don't have a problem with you disagreeing. But, don't accuse me of not knowing the game or having watched it long enough, or of being a mindless homer, or of crying because you are being critical of my team. That might be the case with some other people, but you're barking up the wrong tree on that with me.

On the other hand, if you want to disagree with my perspective, perhaps you might consider doing it in a more considerate, less intentionally provocative manner--you are after all on a Bills messageboard, not Fin Heaven--without assuming that I am something that anyone who has taken the time to read my posts and articles here knows that I am not. If you do that I promise that not only will I accord you similar respect if I should ever visit Fin Heaven, but that I will accord you the same respect that I have demonstrated towards LtFinFan, NE39 and CuseJetsFan. And, I am sure that there will be others here who will follow suit.

[feelthepain]

But, more importantly, why do you feel that it is necessary to come to a messageboard that is devoted to a team that you dislike to consistently present your negative view of that team? What does that do for you? The negative response to your comments--as evidenced by your negative rep points and the fact that you are constantly one of the top vote getters in the "Most Hated Poster", etc. poll--should tell you your consistently negative viewpoint is unappreciated or that your comments are so antipathetical as to be needlessly provocative (considering that I don't generally comment when people argue or talk smack, surely the fact that I am commenting in this instance should tell you something).

After laughing my way through your self promoting love fest I took the paragraph above. For someone who proclaims to be so educated in the sport of football, I just love how you overlook what it is you can't BS your way through to claim someone comes here simply to hate on your team. When in reality I don't hate on the Bills, I simply poit out the facts. You just don't like it...boo frikin hoo!!!

Funny how that offends Bill fans. The Bills are not a good team period! I don't care that they beat the Dolphins, you certainly don't base how good a team in off one other team. But to listen to Bill fans being 7-9 and ranked nearly worst in the league is all beside the point cause you swept the Fins is utterly stupid logic. How about the Bills do something to improve before Bill fans claim they're team is better then anyone else? Beat good teams consistently, have a handful of probowlers, have coach of the year....those are truly facts of an imporving team.

You call the Bills young talented and upcoming...based on what, hope???? The Bills are one of the youngest teams in the league, but so are the Dolphins. The difference in the two teams the last 5 years is chnges to the FO and coaching staffs. The Bills lose one or two a year and the Dolphins are making complete staff changes. Our record over the last few years is due the changes in philosophy more then it is talent. You confuse my look at reality with hate. If the Bills were legit, there would be nothing to argue, you're either good or you're not. It's that simple.

[justasportsfan]

After laughing my way through your self promoting love fest .who are you to talk. I scanned through your dumba$$ posts on FH ...


I took the paragraph above. For someone who proclaims to be so educated in the sport of football, I just love how you overlook what it is you can't BS your way through to claim someone comes here simply to hate on your team. When in reality I don't hate on the Bills, I simply poit out the facts. You just don't like it...boo frikin hoo!!!

Funny how that offends Bill fans. The Bills are not a good team period! I don't care that they beat the Dolphins, you certainly don't base how good a team in off one other team. But to listen to Bill fans being 7-9 and ranked nearly worst in the league is all beside the point cause you swept the Fins is utterly stupid logic. How about the Bills do something to improve before Bill fans claim they're team is better then anyone else? Beat good teams consistently, have a handful of probowlers, have coach of the year....those are truly facts of an imporving team.

You call the Bills young talented and upcoming...based on what, hope???? The Bills are one of the youngest teams in the league, but so are the Dolphins. The difference in the two teams the last 5 years is chnges to the FO and coaching staffs. The Bills lose one or two a year and the Dolphins are making complete staff changes. Our record over the last few years is due the changes in philosophy more then it is talent. You confuse my look at reality with hate. If the Bills were legit, there would be nothing to argue, you're either good or you're not. It's that simple.


Here' are your excuses and you're full of it.


What exactly are these rankings based on? We haven't played a game yet. I also think the Dolphins are more talented then the Bills. :roflmao:


Miami's loses to injury last year were to star players and Buffalo's injuries weren't . Buffalo had 7 wins but 4 of those 7 wins were to the Jets and Dolphins. Last year in Miami we beat the Bills in every aspect of the game except the final score. Just because the Bills won that game doesn't mean they should have.

I also look at the fact that Miami's injuries were to Ronnie Brown, Trent Green, Zach Thomas, Yeremiah Bell and Chris Chambers due to trade. None of those players were in either game against the Bills last year.
I think that's a huge advantage for the Bills yet we still outplayed the Bills in Miami. Those are probably our best players and the Bills didn't lose one player equal to any of those players as far as talent and or contribution to the NFL.

You also need to take into account the amount of change to the Dolphins the last 5 years, we've had large turnovers to the coaching staff and FO much of the last 5 years. That has a large effect to the core talent of the team due to system and philosophy changes.

With that said, Miami was still able to finish the season better on both sides of the ball then the Bills for the second year in a row. With all our issues in coaching, our very poor ST play and injuries we still managed to have better statistics as a 1-15 team then the Bills did as a 7-9 team. Buffalo also finished the 2007 season with the exact same statistics they did the year before, wins and loses, offensive and defensive ranking.

That's how I see things with Buffalo. Till the teams play all we can do is speculate. As far as I can tell, I don't know how anyone can look at the two teams and say the Bills are better off based on wins alone. Buffalo has not improved in the last two years. No one will look at the Bills over the last two years and think they could have been a playoff team. You can't look at their statistics or talent and come up with a good argument in favor of the Bills being a playoff team.

Both teams will be different in 08, especially Miami. So we'll just have to wait and see. Now if the Bills become a playoff team that will be a different story, but they have had the same chance as everyone else and they have yet to do anything with that chance. I think the biggest difference in Buffalo and Miami the last two years is luck. It has to be considering how bad Buffalo was on both sides of the ball. Miami was better then Buffalo the last two years. Buffalo could easily have been 2-14 as they were 7-9, you should consider yourself luckier not better.



Here's my argument,.you mean excuses :limp:


Bill fans claim they are miles ahead of the Dolphins at this point in talent, rankings, rebuilding and overall ability. Now IMO Bill fans are not only bias, but way off their estimate. I've already made it clear and it's undisputed that Miami's loss of talent in 07 far out weighed the Bills. The Bills lost a lot of players due to injury, but compare the two teams and players lost Miami lost far more key talent then the Bills, again THAT'S A FACT!!

Now I went over the season numbers and heres what I found.

Total points scored:

Buff : 238

Mia: 267

Total points given up:

Buff: 354

Mia: 436

Difference:

Buff: 116

Mia: 169

Next, I then went over teams played and points scored and given up in the games against teams with winning records. Miami played 7 teams with winning records and Buffalo played 8 teams with winning records.

Buff played: Pitt, Dal, Cle, NE-2, Jax, Was and NYG.
Mia played: Pitt, Dal, Cle, NE-2, NYG, Was

Total points scored:

Buff: 113

Mia:126

Total points given up:

Buff: 243

Mia: 225

Difference:

Buff:130

Mia: 99

Bottom line to all these numbers, is there really isn't a big difference between the two teams. You can't determine the Bills are vastly better then the Dolphins based on the bottom line numbers. These aren't numbers that are skewed by situations. They're head to head scores giving final scores. Some numbers favor the Bills some favor the Dolphins. In neither set of numbers is the advantage overwhelming either way to favor either team.

Also, the last two years Miami not only has a better record against teams with winning records, their statistically better over the last two year then the Bills when it comes to head to head match ups against winning teams. Miami has also been ranked higher on both sides of the ball the last two years.

Bill fans are under the delusion sweeping the Fins somehow makes them the superior team, well that's simply not the case nor is it the way to determine who's better/worse. Basically, neither team is better then the other at this point. Miami could have another bad year or we could have a decent year and the same with the Bills. In the last 5 years neither the Dolphins or Bills have made strides to improve either by statistics or record.



:coocoo:

[feelthepain]

who are you to talk. I scanned through your dumba$$ posts on FH ...




Here' are your excuses and you're full of it.

:roflmao:




you mean excuses :limp:






:coocoo:
Look pricncess, you need to stop PMSing. Football isn't your sport anyways, you should go back to watching your favorite show "Queer eye for the straight guy". Maybe you could offer a few tips on how to add a little splash of color to this site....silly girl.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Look pricncess, you need to stop PMSing. Football isn't your sport anyways, you should go back to watching your favorite show "Queer eye for the straight guy". Maybe you could offer a few tips on how to add a little splash of color to this site....silly girl.

Thank you for answering my questions. I understand your reasons completely now.

[Meathead]

11-16

- one of the easiest starting schedules in the league
- dt stroud changes entire dynamic of front seven
- emergence of dt mcjumbo, combo of dt whitefury and dt johnson excellent compliment to stroud
- de's now allowed to focus on pass rush
- 5 deep quality LB rotation
- very deep cb rotation
- return of FS simpson and quality depth in wilson and scott