SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

[The Answer]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ross_tucker/05/15/rules/index.html

Here are some intersting comments in the article from Tucker in regards to the Pat's cheating ways:

Walsh's comments to commissioner Roger Goodell earlier this week that New England had players on injured reserve participate in practice wasn't news to me. I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, "Every team in the league does that." I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

"One season when I was with the Bills, the offensive line coach for the team we were were about to face was fired days before the game. He subsequently called our offensive line coach, Jim McNally, and let him know some of the unique defensive formations we could expect to see that week. Needless to say, the defenders were very surprised how well prepared we were"

~The Answer

[Jan Reimers]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

Nothing illegal on the Bills' part.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

No but the point is when the competitive advantage is much larger than they claim when you know what plays they run.

[Jeff1220]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

I like that he points out that the "everyone does it" argument isn't necessarily true.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

I like that he points out that the "everyone does it" argument isn't necessarily true.

He was referring to a player practicing on IR, not anything to do with stealing signals.

Every team in the NFL scouts opposing coaches signals and deciphers them. It isn't even illegal. What is illegal, and what the Patriots got caught doing, is taping the signals from field level. This allowed them to more efficiently gather the information that every team gathers, which is why they did so. Still, while stealing signals is not specifically outlawed, doing it in the manner the Patriots did so is not allowed.

In the article, Tucker even gives an instance where he was asked by a team he played for (not the Patriots) to look for a particular signal from the defensive coordinator, which the team had scouted in advance.

Heck, Mike Shanahan even admitted trying to steal signals and use them in the same game:

"Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

Of course, that doesn't excuse what the Patriots did, but it does show that this whole thing is being blown so far out of proportion because of the general hatred of other team's fans and media of the Pats and Bill Belichick.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

I agree that signal stealing has been done forever. When Jon Gruden covers his mouth with the play card when he calls in the play, he isn't doing it because he spits too much.

On the other hand, what the Patriots did wrong was not only the videotaping, but the premeditated way they knowingly broke the rule (by snooping around and hiding it per Matt Walsh), and the not owning up to it (Bellichick said he misinterpreted the rules). It was by no means blown out of proportion whatsoever. The only people who say that are the ones who want it swept under the rug, with obvious agenda.

[trapezeus]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

i find it funny that when we signed lawyer milloy, everyone wondered how much information we could get out of him. meanwhile since 2000, the patriots have been videotaping our signals.

what i find truly amazing is that goodell thinks that the 6 tapes that walsh has is it. Obviously the patriots did this the entire time. Why single out the bills, dolphins and another non AFC east team? These are the tapes walsh was lucky enough to have.

i really hate the NFL more and more that this thing goes unresolved.

[yordad]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

He was referring to a player practicing on IR, not anything to do with stealing signals.

Every team in the NFL scouts opposing coaches signals and deciphers them. It isn't even illegal. What is illegal, and what the Patriots got caught doing, is taping the signals from field level. This allowed them to more efficiently gather the information that every team gathers, which is why they did so. Still, while stealing signals is not specifically outlawed, doing it in the manner the Patriots did so is not allowed.

In the article, Tucker even gives an instance where he was asked by a team he played for (not the Patriots) to look for a particular signal from the defensive coordinator, which the team had scouted in advance.

Heck, Mike Shanahan even admitted trying to steal signals and use them in the same game:



Of course, that doesn't excuse what the Patriots did, but it does show that this whole thing is being blown so far out of proportion because of the general hatred of other team's fans and media of the Pats and Bill Belichick.

But it does show their mind set. And, it shows not every team has that mindset.

[justasportsfan]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

A former bills qb was in on it too and he still sucked

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/sports/football/16walsh.html?_r=2&pagewanted=2&hp&oref=slogin

"After filming opponents’ signals, Walsh would edit the tape or deliver the original to Adams. Walsh said a quarterback — he declined to say whom — would learn the signals, and the next time the Patriots played that team, the quarterback would relay that information to Weis, who would use the coach-to-quarterback communication system to send the information to the field. That process, Walsh said, took seconds......

....The Patriots then opened the regular season against the Buccaneers. Walsh said this was the first time he had seen quarterback Drew Bledsoe operate a no-huddle offense when not in a two-minute or hurry-up situation.

In the week after the game, Walsh said he asked a quarterback — again, he declined to name whom — how helpful the signals were. Walsh said the quarterback told him “probably about 75 percent of the time, Tampa Bay ran the defense we thought they were going to run — if not more.”

(Bledsoe was the Patriots’ starting quarterback in 2000. The other quarterbacks on the roster were Tom Brady, Michael Bishop and John Friesz.)

---------------------

All I can say is wow! The PAts were very organized even when it came to cheating. Looks like they were very detailed in making sure everyone did their job . From the spies to the players.

I've always admired BB approach to the game. No nonsense/all business. I guess it also applied to cheating. "Git er done"

[DynaPaul]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

Of course, that doesn't excuse what the Patriots did, but it does show that this whole thing is being blown so far out of proportion because of the general hatred of other team's fans and media of the Pats and Bill Belichick.

I'd have to dispute that. There's other stuff there that the league has hidden for the protection of the whole league. You can try and defend them all you want though.

[OpIv37]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

He was referring to a player practicing on IR, not anything to do with stealing signals.

Every team in the NFL scouts opposing coaches signals and deciphers them. It isn't even illegal. What is illegal, and what the Patriots got caught doing, is taping the signals from field level. This allowed them to more efficiently gather the information that every team gathers, which is why they did so. Still, while stealing signals is not specifically outlawed, doing it in the manner the Patriots did so is not allowed.

In the article, Tucker even gives an instance where he was asked by a team he played for (not the Patriots) to look for a particular signal from the defensive coordinator, which the team had scouted in advance.

Heck, Mike Shanahan even admitted trying to steal signals and use them in the same game:



Of course, that doesn't excuse what the Patriots did, but it does show that this whole thing is being blown so far out of proportion because of the general hatred of other team's fans and media of the Pats and Bill Belichick.

The Patriots broke an explicit NFL rule. They did so for years, and they took measures to hide it, which means they knew it was wrong. What they did gave them a competitive advantage.

Why did Shanahan try to learn the signals with binoculars? Because it was a competitive advantage. You're trying to downplay what they did, but smart football people like Tucker (he's an Ivy League grad), Shanahan and McNally all saw the advantage in doing it.

And if it didn't give them such an advantage, why did they devote a great deal of resources to it and do it for such a long period of time?

What the Patriots did gave them an advantage that other teams did not have, and they did so knowing it was wrong.

And btw, the reason other fans and the media hate Belicheck and the Pats is largely their own fault.

[Spiderweb]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

He was referring to a player practicing on IR, not anything to do with stealing signals.

Every team in the NFL scouts opposing coaches signals and deciphers them. It isn't even illegal. What is illegal, and what the Patriots got caught doing, is taping the signals from field level. This allowed them to more efficiently gather the information that every team gathers, which is why they did so. Still, while stealing signals is not specifically outlawed, doing it in the manner the Patriots did so is not allowed.

In the article, Tucker even gives an instance where he was asked by a team he played for (not the Patriots) to look for a particular signal from the defensive coordinator, which the team had scouted in advance.

Heck, Mike Shanahan even admitted trying to steal signals and use them in the same game:



Of course, that doesn't excuse what the Patriots did, but it does show that this whole thing is being blown so far out of proportion because of the general hatred of other team's fans and media of the Pats and Bill Belichick.

Bottom line is still what it has been: Patriots and Belichick are cheaters.

..............Oh, and 18-1 last year.

[BuffaloBills28]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

Do people forget the second we cut Jonathan "Fast Freddie" Smith that he signed immediatly with the Patriots, who knows how much they got out of him before they sent his ass packing?

[JD]

Re: SI: Former Bill Ross Tucker speaks about spygate

I thought the point of having coachs up so high in the boxes WAS to study signals / read the defense.