Schonert on WGR

[Romes]

 The Howard Simon Show - Bills OC Turk Schonert w/ Jeremy and Nick

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting.

Some of what he said makes me think that he may try to make the offense look a bit like the old Cincinnatti Bengals' offense that he ran when he was backing up Boomer Esaison.

The personnel that he has is somewhat similar to what those Cincy teams had, stylistically (no Icky Woods, but Marshawn gives him a little of both of the RBs that Cincy had, Evans is a speedster like Brown, etc.), and Edwards, like Esaison, may not have the biggest arm in the league but can be very accurate with the ball.

[Romes]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting.

Some of what he said makes me think that he may try to make the offense look a bit like the old Cincinnatti Bengals' offense that he ran when he was backing up Boomer Esaison.

The personnel that he has is somewhat similar to what those Cincy teams had, stylistically (no Icky Woods, but Marshawn gives him a little of both of the RBs that Cincy had, Evans is a speedster like Brown, etc.), and Edwards, like Esaison, may not have the biggest arm in the league but can be very accurate with the ball.

I think you are right. Lots of crossing patterns and passing to backs sounds very west coast offense like.

I know we hear it all the time about coaches trying to fit the scheme to the players but nevertheless its nice to hear that they are structuring and offense around what Edwards does well...which is get the ball out quick.

Hardy, with his size, could be a monster on those crossing patterns boxing guys out and getting those quick 5-7 yards.

[Night Train]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Using the TE. What a novel idea !

[acehole]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Three things.

one. I think anybody could do better then Fairchild.But do we need to get these guys who never done this before on the Bills?


two. Why did we spend a bunch on the o-line so they can hold a block for 3 -5 seconds?


three. The short passing game runs the risk of the safties cheating in....not only will that rusult in somwhat nullifying some of the short passing game..but that will hurt M Lynches running game as well. Teams could run blitz LB all day....and the saftys are a lot closer to support the run.

We shall see.

The Howard Simon Show - Bills OC Turk Schonert w/ Jeremy and Nick

[Mitchy moo]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Everytime there is a offensive post, someone has to pipe in about TE's arm strength. I have no idea why anyone would question someone's ability when those types of plays weren't called last year.

[acehole]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Everytime there is a offensive post, someone has to pipe in about TE's arm strength. I have no idea why anyone would question someone's ability when those types of plays weren't called last year.

Who did that?

[LABillsFan]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Three things.

one. I think anybody could do better then Fairchild.But do we need to get these guys who never done this before on the Bills?


two. Why did we spend a bunch on the o-line so they can hold a block for 3 -5 seconds?


three. The short passing game runs the risk of the safties cheating in....not only will that rusult in somwhat nullifying some of the short passing game..but that will hurt M Lynches running game as well. Teams could run blitz LB all day....and the saftys are a lot closer to support the run.

We shall see.

1.) I've read this 6 times, I have no idea what you mean.

2.) Run blocking, time consumption with the run, goal to goal, keeping the QB healthy as possible, for the times they do throw long, sweeps, counters, massive DT's and quick DE's, blitzes and screens.

3.) True if The Bills play book consisted of 1 play.

[Philagape]

Re: Schonert on WGR

I don't know how good or creative Schonert is as an OC, but he's winning points for knowing what was wrong with Fairchild and fixing it. That's half the battle.

[LABillsFan]

Re: Schonert on WGR

I don't know how good or creative Schonert is as an OC, but he's winning points for knowing what was wrong with Fairchild and fixing it. That's half the battle.

He's seen first hand the talent and abilities of each player, He doesn't seem the type to be so fixated on "his system". I think he'll be able to do very well, he has AVP backing him up as well. Fairchild would only let Shonert work with the QB's. That's like a HC disregarding the OC's or DC's imput.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Re: Schonert on WGR

I don't know why everyone seems to think that the WCO offense is strictly a "dink-and-dunk" offense--it is if you have a QB like Pennington, but J.Taylor certainly caught his share of deep balls from Montana and Freeman caught his share from Favre, too.

I guess you don't remember the offense that the Cincy team that went to the SB against the 49ers and beat the Bills in the playoffs in the late 1980s was like:

E.Brown was a speedster who was as fast or faster than L.Evans. Teams that cheated up on the Bengals paid a price because, while Essaison didn't have the strongest arm in the NFL, his arm was strong enough to get the deep ball out there for Brown to run under. Like Evans, Brown was a weapon that opposing defenses could not ignore.

The thing that I remember the most about those Cincy teams was that, in addition to running the ball well, they had an annoying/effective way of getting the ball into the hands of their RBs matched up one-on-one with a LB in the flat at key times in the game. I can still see images of L.James catching the ball and scampering just past the first down marker to convert a third down when it seemed like they were about to be stopped.

They had a pretty good TE in Bob Trumpy, who was an excellent blocker and, though aging, knew how to get open in the middle of the field. It remains to be seen if the Bills can get anywhere near the kind of effective play from their TEs that those Bengals got from Trumpy and their other TEs.

Other than C.Collinsworth, I can't remember who their other WRs were besides Brown. As I recall, they were more possession-type receivers with good hands.

And, they had a very good offensive line, led by A.Munoz. Their center, as I recall, was pretty good, too, although the rest of their linemen were not the kind of players whose names were particularly memorable.

L.James was a smallish (smaller than T.Thomas), but very quick RB who was an excellent receiver out of the backfield. He was paired with a bigger RB, whose name I can't recall, before I.Woods came on the scene because he simply wasn't big enough to be effective running inside consistently. Before Woods, who was a big RB and a north-and-south runner, arrived, the Bengals would throw to both RBs and used James much in the same way as the Bills used T.Thomas in the K-Gun. With Woods, James became more of a third-down and "change of pace" back and they used Woods to pound the ball inside more.

But, a big key to their offense was that they mixed their plays up very nicely. They weren't a "big play" offense or a "grind it out" offense or a "dink and dunk" offense, but combined aspects of all of those approaches. When Essaison and their WRs were healthy, they were a very effective and pretty high scoring offense. Age and injuries caught up with them just as the Bills were on the ascendancy and developed the K-Gun offense and the Bengals were surpassed by those great Bills teams. But, they had a pretty good and diverse offense during the time that Schonert was with them.

As I said in my earlier post, with the personnel that the Bills have, I can see Schonert trying to incorporate a lot of what those old Cincy teams did. If he can get them to do some of that successfully, the Bills offense just might be able to move the ball and put up enough points to get the team into the playoffs.

One thing that I particularly liked hearing from the OTAs was that Schonert wants Edwards to try changing the progression of his reads on certain play calls depending on what look the defense gives him. If Edwards can handle doing that, it could turn out to be a very significant plus for the offense.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Schonert on WGR

Three things.

one. I think anybody could do better then Fairchild.But do we need to get these guys who never done this before on the Bills?


two. Why did we spend a bunch on the o-line so they can hold a block for 3 -5 seconds?


three. The short passing game runs the risk of the safties cheating in....not only will that rusult in somwhat nullifying some of the short passing game..but that will hurt M Lynches running game as well. Teams could run blitz LB all day....and the saftys are a lot closer to support the run.

We shall see.

This is actually a very good post. I'm shocked.

I agree with all three points. The O-line had no problem in pass blocking it was run blocking where they looked less than adequate.

I think they only advantage to a quick passing game is that you could run a no huddle more effectively and I think Trent has showed that he can call plays at the line.

[hydro]

Re: Schonert on WGR

three. The short passing game runs the risk of the safties cheating in....not only will that rusult in somwhat nullifying some of the short passing game..but that will hurt M Lynches running game as well. Teams could run blitz LB all day....and the saftys are a lot closer to support the run.

We shall see.

LBF is right. It's not like there are no passing plays with routes over 20 yards. If the safeties are cheating and Schonert doesn't take advantage he will have not been an upgrade to fairchild. It is that easy.

If your #3 was such a factor the WCO would cease to exist.

[acehole]

Re: Schonert on WGR

This is actually a very good post. I'm shocked.

I agree with all three points. The O-line had no problem in pass blocking it was run blocking where they looked less than adequate.

I think they only advantage to a quick passing game is that you could run a no huddle more effectively and I think Trent has showed that he can call plays at the line.

Well thanks...

But there were no audibles last year so I don't know how you make a conclusion that he can...