Why does everyone talk bad about Whitner?

[Mitchell55]

I understand he was a surprise pick at 8, but he has lived up to be a very great player. Look at this. All in red have been busts. Blue are the players who have been ok. Whitner has had better success than most of the players picked after him. Only 8 players turned out to be great and Whitner could be put into that catagory.

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR class=oddrow><TD>1</TD><TD>Houston (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=hou)</TD><TD>Mario Williams (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10290) - DE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=31)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>2</TD><TD>New Orleans (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=nor)</TD><TD>Reggie Bush (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10305) - RB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=9)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>3</TD><TD>Tennessee (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=ten)</TD><TD>Vince Young (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10300) - QB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=8)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>4</TD><TD>New York (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=nyj)</TD><TD>D'Brickashaw Ferguson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9817) - OT (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=46)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>5</TD><TD>Green Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=gnb)</TD><TD>A.J. Hawk (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9820) - LB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=30)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>6</TD><TD>San Francisco (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=sfo)</TD><TD>Vernon Davis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10310) - TE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=7)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>7</TD><TD>Oakland (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=oak)</TD><TD>Michael Huff (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9281) - DB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=82)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>8</TD><TD>Buffalo (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=buf)</TD><TD>Donte' Whitner (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10365) - DB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=82)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>9</TD><TD>Detroit (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=det)</TD><TD>Ernie Sims (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10381) - LB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=30)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>10</TD><TD>Arizona (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=ari)</TD><TD>Matt Leinart (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9237) - QB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=8)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>11</TD><TD>Denver (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=den)</TD><TD>Jay Cutler (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9296) - QB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=8)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>12</TD><TD>Baltimore (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=bal)</TD><TD>Haloti Ngata (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10294) - DT (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=32)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>13</TD><TD>Cleveland (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=cle)</TD><TD>Kamerion Wimbley (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9332) - DE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=31)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>14</TD><TD>Philadelphia (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=phi)</TD><TD>Brodrick Bunkley (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9236) - DT (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=32)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>15</TD><TD>St. Louis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=stl)</TD><TD>Tye Hill (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9226) - DB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=82)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>16</TD><TD>Miami (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=mia)</TD><TD>Jason Allen (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9324) - DB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=82)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>17</TD><TD>Minnesota (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=min)</TD><TD>Chad Greenway (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9301) - LB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=30)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>18</TD><TD>Dallas (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=dal)</TD><TD>Bobby Carpenter (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9201) - LB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=30)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>19</TD><TD>San Diego (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=sdg)</TD><TD>Antonio Cromartie (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10345) - DB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=82)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>20</TD><TD>Kansas City (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=kan)</TD><TD>Tamba Hali (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9818) - DE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=31)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>21</TD><TD>New England (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=nwe)</TD><TD>Laurence Maroney (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10306) - RB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=9)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>22</TD><TD>San Francisco (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=sfo)</TD><TD>Manny Lawson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9228) - DE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=31)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>23</TD><TD>Tampa Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=tam)</TD><TD>Davin Joseph (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9265) - OG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=47)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>24</TD><TD>Cincinnati (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=cin)</TD><TD>Johnathan Joseph (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10347) - DB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=82)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>25</TD><TD>Pittsburgh (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=pit)</TD><TD>Santonio Holmes (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10315) - WR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=1)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>26</TD><TD>Buffalo (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=buf)</TD><TD>John McCargo (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10397) - DT (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=32)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>27</TD><TD>Carolina (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=car)</TD><TD>DeAngelo Williams (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9221) - RB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=9)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>28</TD><TD>Jacksonville (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=jac)</TD><TD>Marcedes Lewis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9334) - TE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=7)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>29</TD><TD>New York (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=nyj)</TD><TD>Nick Mangold (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9331) - C (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=4)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>30</TD><TD>Indianapolis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=ind)</TD><TD>Joseph Addai (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9342) - RB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=9)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>31</TD><TD>Seattle (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=sea)</TD><TD>Kelly Jennings (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9197) - DB (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=82)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>32</TD><TD>New York (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=nyg)</TD><TD>Mathias Kiwanuka (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9193) - DE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=31)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Novacane]

He's not a "very great" player. He's good and I'm glad he's a Bill but he's not great or near there imo.

[HHURRICANE]

I like Whitner. People have a hard on because we took him at #8. What people don't consider is who was taken after him at SS. There was him and Huff and than a drop off of mega proportions.

We cut Lawyer Milloy so we needed to take Whitner. Our D sucked and this kid played every position.

[Novacane]

Bush is a bust huh? Are you serious?

[Philagape]

No way has he lived up to No. 8 overall, yet.

[HHURRICANE]

No way has he lived up to No. 8 overall, yet.

I really don't agree. Hard to be great when you are playing 5 different positions and having to back up the run D constantly.

At one point he was playing FS, CB, and LB in addition to SS.

[Historian]

I think he stinks.

Last year should have been his breakout year.

[Philagape]

I really don't agree. Hard to be great when you are playing 5 different positions and having to back up the run D constantly.

At one point he was playing FS, CB, and LB in addition to SS.

Then yes, you do agree. You're just saying why.

[HHURRICANE]

Then yes, you do agree. You're just saying why.

I think it's unfair. I wonder how well Ben Rothlinsberger would have played his first two seasons had he had dropped one spot to the Bills?

[Jan Reimers]

I think he's had to play in the box, against the run, way too much because of our problems on the D-line and at LB.

With a better front seven, we should see him emerge as more of a playmaker this year.

[Philagape]

I think it's unfair. I wonder how well Ben Rothlinsberger would have played his first two seasons had he had dropped one spot to the Bills?

I'm not saying he's a bust, and I'm not saying he can't become worthy of the pick. I said he hasn't done it yet.

[Captain gameboy]

Nobody on this site has any valid argument about the year he had last season. Way too hard to determine what he may have been asked to do with all of those injuries in the secondary and lb group.
Only the staff would really know.

The guy was lined up with next to safety who was a practice squad receiver in the prior weeks.
Think that might have impacted his role?

[Mitchell55]

Bush is a bust huh? Are you serious?



Dude. Bush is listed by every sports writer in the country as a bust. Get some knowledge will ya.

[Patti120]

I think he is a solid player but as other "posters" have mentioned, he has had to play up in the box, etc. I think that based upon our prior defenses and the fact that we don't hear his name to often is actual an indication that he is doing a good job. Once he can focus solely on his position and can really just play his position I think we will all be happy with his performance.

I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that he might be the "unsung hero" on our D.

:couch:

I could be wrong but that is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth.

[OpIv37]

I like Whitner. People have a hard on because we took him at #8. What people don't consider is who was taken after him at SS. There was him and Huff and than a drop off of mega proportions.

We cut Lawyer Milloy so we needed to take Whitner. Our D sucked and this kid played every position.

our D still sucked after we got Whitner. We needed an impact player and through two seasons, Whitner has yet to do that. Tom Brady consistently whizzes TD passes by him, he's always getting to the play a step late, his hit on CJ was his only big hit in two years (after being touted as a "big hitter" coming out of college), he missed the tackle on McGahee that led to a huge touchdown run, and his INT's are extremely low. Hell, forget INT's, look at his tipped balls and pass breakups- I don't remember the exact number, but the amount of times he gets his hands on the ball is pathetically low.

Certainly there are worse safeties out there, but this guy has yet to live up to his potential or make an impact.

Also I have to question MLynch23's judgement on some of those players- Ngata has been much better than "ok". And why is it that Whitner can still be great, but several other players on that list from two years ago are already busts? Either Whitner's a bust too based on what he's done so far, or those guys could still be great. You can't judge the guys you like by one set of rules and the guys on other teams by a different set of rules.

[yordad]

I think you should have a lot more people colored in green, for "could go either way".

I think Whitner has done good. In fact, I am convinced he will have a huge year.

[Night Train]

He was picked too high but he didn't have a say in that. He's the least of our concerns.

This Cover 2 D the Bills employ could make Ronnie Lott look like a stiff. How can anyone grade a player who's scheme doesn't allow one to attack but to play on their heels 90 % of the time ?

When he misses tackles or gets blown out on a significant number of plays, like Digiorgio and Kyle Williams do, then I'll agree. Those 2 stink and should be super glued to the bench, if not cut.

[YardRat]

I like Whitner a lot, but I question your definition of 'ok' considering some of the names highlighted in blue.

[Philagape]

Dude. Bush is listed by every sports writer in the country as a bust. Get some knowledge will ya.

Hali has 15.5 sacks in two seasons. He forced six fumbles as a rookie. The Chiefs are high enough on him to trade Jared Allen.
Lawson's also done pretty well but missed most of last year with a torn ACL.
Davin Joseph started 16 games for the Bucs last year and helped Earnest Graham rush for 898 yards and 10 TDs in 10 starts.

Get some knowledge yourself before calling anyone else's out. Dude.

[Al the Bills Fan]

He will put up much better numbers this year, make a few more "big plays" simply because the D will be better. He won't have to cheat up into the box for run support as much as he has had to in the past.

When you look at guys like Polamulu and Bob Sanders making big plays you notice one thing about both teams - they pressure the QB!!!

With more pressure on the QB this year (I hope) Whitner will play better, not that I convinced he has played badly up to this point. The Bottom line is this, putting pressure on the QB leads to more turnovers, more turnovers equals better chance of winning.

BOLD PREDICTION = Whitner will have 5-6 picks this year

[gr8slayer]

Because quite honestly he has yet to live up to his draft spot. When you draft a player that high you are looking for an elite talent, someone who is a difference maker. Few times in his short career has Whitner been a difference maker from a positive stand point.

[Al the Bills Fan]

Because quite honestly he has yet to live up to his draft spot. When you draft a player that high you are looking for an elite talent, someone who is a difference maker. Few times in his short career has Whitner been a difference maker from a positive stand point.


When has Whitner had any help from the d-line? It's hard to be a playmaker when you are up in run support half the time and the opposing QB has all day to throw the other half.

Pressure = turnovers

[HHURRICANE]

When has Whitner had any help from the d-line? It's hard to be a playmaker when you are up in run support half the time and the opposing QB has all day to throw the other half.

Pressure = turnovers

Totally agree with this post. Brady doesn't break a sweat when he has played us.

[justasportsfan]

he can only do so much in his first 2 years of having a crappy middle DL.

He's done better than HUff who's had a better DL in front of him.

[cba fan]

Take Whitner away and Bills D is no better and no worse. Just like when Ko Simpson exited stage left after cracking his ankle.

He so far has been a non factor warming a position.

I am far from giving up on him and think he still could be good, however, he is not a player that can make a difference all by himself like an elite DB drafted at #8 should.

Look at it this way. If Whitner came out of college with same talent but less press and Bills drafted him in 5th round he would be thought of right now as no better and no worse than Ko Simpson.

Compare him to other Bills DB first rounders. Winfield Clements...they impacted almost immediately in a much more impressive way than Whitner and were drafted later in first.

[ddaryl]

Whitner is fine... we haven't had crap for a supporting cast around him for most of his career.

I expect BIG things from Whitner this year

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Why does everyone talk bad about Whitner, you ask?

1.) Some people are still ticked off that they lost their draft pools when the Bills took Whitner instead of the guy that they had the Bills taking at # 8

2.) As some of the responses so far have indicated, a number of people here think that because Whitner was selected with the 8th pick in the draft, he should have made the Pro Bowl as a rookie and have become at least a second team All Pro last season.

3.) Some folks insist on comparing Whitner's stats to those of safeties who play in different defensive schemes and/or with better personnel surrounding them where they have more opportunities to make plays and generate turnovers.

4.) All of the above have chosen to ignore the statistical comparison of Whitner's first two seasons with the Bills to Bob Sanders' first three seasons with the Colts--which I have posted here repeatedly, including as recently as within this past month--that show that Whitner's regular season stats during that period are strikingly similar to Sanders' stats at the same point in his career (for example, for those who say that Whitner has hardly gotten his hands on the ball, he actually has one more pass defensed and the same number of INTs that Sanders had in his first three regular seasons!).

And, that's not even considering the fact that Whitner played with three different starting free safeties, two different starting MLBs, three different starting CBs at one corner spot, and a host of street free agents who barely had time to learn where to get lined up in the system as back-ups last season. Nor does it take into account the fact that the coaches had him practicing at free safety and as the nickle CB during different weeks during the course of that season.

Now, I'm not saying that Whitner has been perfect or that he hasn't made his share of mistakes or that he hasn't shown room for improvement in his game. But, it is hard for any player to make an impact on games when he's playing in the kind of situation that Whitner was called on to play in last season.

With a better cast of players around him, if the Bills can stay healthy on defense this season, Whitner should have an opportunity to step up his game and become the play-maker that the Bills expected him to become when they used the # 8 pick to select him. And, it is up to him to show that he can do that this season.

But, even if he does that, it still will not satisfy some of the people who fall in categories 1-3 above. As far as some of them are concerned, unless Whitner wins the Defensive MVP and leads the Bills to a SB win with an INT for a TD, he will always be an unforgivable "reach" in their books. And, no amount of stats, nothing that you can possibly say or write, will change that...because their opinions are set in stone and their minds are made up and that's it.

[Al the Bills Fan]

Great post LTBF